Does It Matter if Matt Wins 70?
Matt Hasselbeck has had a tough run. Though he's certainly no sparkling talent himself anymore, his teammates have mostly stunk too. That's how you arrive at a bottom feeder offense: bad quarterback, bad talent surrounding that quarterback. Before his decline caved in around him, Hasselbeck was one of two great quarterbacks to ever be a Seahawk. He is now within one win of tying that other great quarterback, Dave Krieg, for Seattle's all-time record for quarterback wins: 70.
And I could not care less.
Quarterback wins is among the most pointless of pointless stats. They credit the quarterback for the entire outcome of a game. The quarterback is credited or debited for both the quality of his teammates and the quality of his opponent. It's a terrible stat and in no way representative of a quarterback's ability.
Hasselbeck is reaching this milestone because of gross managerial error. He shouldn't still be starting. Seattle should have been ready to move on from Hasselbeck halfway through the 2009 season, but instead, he was allowed to fight on. Over the last three seasons, Hasselbeck has closed in on Krieg's record by sheer volume of games. His quarterback record since 2008 is 12-21. In that same span, Hasselbeck surpassed Krieg in the more dubious honor of most losses by a quarterback in Seahawks history. Hasselbeck is now six games behind Jim Zorn. Zorn lost 60. That is, the expansion Seahawks lost 60 games while Zorn did his damndest to survive.
No, with apologies to Krazyleggs and whoever else takes stock in these milestones, I would be just as happy if Hasselbeck never overtook Krieg.
And here's why.
Matt Hasselbeck was a great quarterback. It didn't happen all at once but it happened, and his prime is the happiest era of my Seahawks fandom. He was precise, oh so damn precise. It wasn't just accuracy but timing and trust between him and his receivers. He threw it. They caught it. First down. First down. First down.
He was elusive and athletic. Hasselbeck clowned Julius Peppers in the NFC Championship Game. I am not going to say it better now, and so here's an excerpt:
The greatest story of the NFC Championship was Hasselbeck. Maybe it's the baldness, the perennially worried face, the modern dodderer some confuse his former self with, but I forgot how athletic and graceful Hasselbeck once was. He wore out Julius Peppers. He stepped through pressure, could pass from any position, could begin a rollout, sense an end coming free and abort and throw with zip. Hasselbeck was once an athletic and intelligent scrambler. He had great footwork and made honest to God open field moves. He was confident in his reads and could throw all over the field, just supremely in the moment as only the greatest can be. Hasselbeck had the perfect mix of touch and zip, and his passes appeared in windows he'd never think to attempt anymore. He was a different man. A younger man. Decline denial only seems more odorous after watching just how great he once was.
Matt wasn't playing with a bunch of sensational athletes. His receiving corps -- as was common for Hasselbeck throughout his career -- was adequate to sub par. Matt was the sensational athlete. Matt was the player doing things that made us smile. Matt was great, truly, no fabrication, great, but he's not anymore.
Winning 70 won't make him better and it won't cement his standing in Seahawks history. I highly doubt Hasselbeck himself cares. I don't know Matt, but I can guess, what Matt always wanted is to be great. He wanted to be a great quarterback in the National Football League. And he was. Not for long, but he was. And it was a truly special time to be a Seahawks fan when he was.
That, that gift of greatness he shared with us is his legacy. Concocted statistics, and post-hoc rationalizations and qualifications and minimizations can go to hell. Matt Hasselbeck was a great quarterback in the NFL, and a Seahawk, and I saw it with my own damn eyes.
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Nine lives
I don’t know if we can call this a eulogy. Matt has proven particularly adept at hanging on in spite of the mounting evidence of his diminished talents. This is in part because this team has not really had a credible alternative since, what, Dilfer?
He’s had games like yesterday’s before and hung on. If the Hawks squeak into the playoffs with a poor running attack and poor defense, it will be difficult for the Hawks to part ways with Beck. Even if Schneider and Carroll target an early-round quarterback, there’s always the argument about keeping the veteran around for the young guy to learn from. I’d say there’s a 60% chance that Beck is on the roster next year. Forty percent chance he’s the opening day starter.
Eulogy for Matt the Great
I can’t speak for farmer cam, but I read this post as a eulogy for Matt as a great QB, not a eulogy for Matt’s total career.
Exactly
Who knows maybe Matt pulls a Steve DeBerg and plays into his 40’s. I agree with John’s assessment that Matt was once a great quarterback and that he is now well into the twilight of his career.
God, how many shitty games does Matt have to have before we make a change, even if it's just a change for change's sake?
There’s an argument for keeping Hasselbeck next season…..but not a GOOD reason. Matt’s a WCO quarterback, so if he continues to play he should probably go to a team that runs some form of the West Coast offense. His time in Seattle is just about up.
A fine post.
I’m so thankful for the rational people out there who can separate the Matt that was from the Matt that is. I wonder, though, if this Matt is still our best option for next year. CW doesn’t look like the guy, I’m sure that other teams wouldn’t respect his ability. Even if we draft a QB in the 1st round, they’d have a ramp and you would probably want someone like Matt to teach a bit before he left. We can hope for Carson Palmer or somoeone similar, but you really wind up in the same situation all over again. The Hawks are in a tough spot here. Let’s hope Matt can hang on for a little while longer, or that someone falls into our laps… Great post.
"CW doesn’t look like the guy, I’m sure that other teams wouldn’t respect his ability."
How do we have even a vague clue about that? Because of the 6 quarters of varsity ball he got this year?!?
C’mon. That’s an assumption. I’m not saying he will be a star by any means, but we don’t know. Assuming he “doesn’t look like the guy” off of such a small opportunity says nothing but we rolled out a top notch “jump to conclusion” matt.
Or maybe, a “jump to conclusion Matt” as in a jump to the conclusion that Matt could win more games this year.
One thing I do know— Charlie will at least force the defense to stretch out a little and not put 10 in the box every play.
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 14, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
Perhaps...
It’s a fair point that you can’t tell much from 6 quarters… but this is also part of the problem with CW. Don’t you have to put training wheels on him until he does show some command of the offense? As a coach wouldn’t you be tempted to make CW prove he could throw it down the field accurately and consistently enough to change the gameplan?
With either guy I still think you get 10 in the box, and with Matt you at least get someone who has proven he could win with the right breaks. I admit you’ve changed my mind a bit, but I still think you have to shrug your shoulders and cross your fingers no matter which guy you get… maybe the difference is the amount of failure people will tolerate with each guy.
Being critical of the product on the field doesn't make you less of a fan.
Better running game
In the 2 series that CW played in at Arizona our running game was way better then at any time when Matt was QB.
IF IT IS TRUE THEN WE ARE SO SCREWED
Huzzah to Matt!
Well put.
For one brief shining moment Matt was great, and I will forever love him for that.
Agreed. I also couldn't give two shits about him winning 70.
What matters to me is that he had some great seasons and more important: helped lead us to our first Super Bowl.
I’d rather be more prepared heading into the off-season in knowing more about what we have in Whitehurst. I’d be happy if Hasselbeck never started another game for us. I love what he’s done but he is done.
...
Agreed agreed agreed.
Here’s the thing— I honestly didn’t realize until today that 70 was, to borrow from San Diego’s finest newsanchor, “kinda a big deal.”
I just don’t see it as much of anything either. Sorry, Matt’s career has a hell of a lot of meaning to it, but the number doesn’t.
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 13, 2010 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't want 70, just for 70's sake. It's the last thing you can look to for Hasselbeck
And for me personally, fuck the conventional wisdom or the bullshit “future” It’s been Hasselbeck VS the World. Much like the Enterprise in the pacific theater in World War II. Matt watched every other major carrier sink around him until he was the last one with the ability to fight for this team. Three games isn’t the future of this team. I don’t see that. There is essentially no true risk to letting Matt finish out this year after you’ve gone this far.
Being pissed off because you’re in a hurry to bury someone simply because the grass is greener I suppose, doesn’t mean that it is in fact greener. It may mean years before there is anything meaningful for this team to play for. I’ve now had someone take my personal point and insult it’s value as something entirely meaningless, but I still stand by it. Damn it, this matters to me. It’s the last thing of any value no matter how minimal that this team can truly play for that we won’t be saying the words “Young, rebuilding, transition, unstable.”
I’m putting that aside in consideration for this a last chance to watch Hasselbeck, a player that I loved make one last stand in his uniform. A uniform that I have followed for most of my adult life. I found meaning not in the stat itself, but for what the stat represents to anyone that may follow the team in the future, that Hasselbeck is on top of this franchise. It’s where he should physically be, not in just the hearts of fans who saw him, but in the legacy of the team for those that never will.
by Joshua Kasparek on Dec 13, 2010 5:14 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
I can't tell you it's not meaningful for you, but it's not meaningful for me.
It hurts me to see Matt struggle so much. This isn’t a rush to bury someone. It’s a call for the beating to stop. I hated watching Shaun embarrass himself. This has been worse, longer and like Shaun, it lives because of nostalgia, salary, prestige and inertia.
by John Morgan on Dec 13, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd... for passion.
I disagree with you about pretty much everything here though. But I do love that you put this out there.
Nice simile, but Matt isn’t “the last one with the ability to fight for his team” since he hasn’t had that ability for 2+ years. You are right, three games isn’t the future, but for three years we’ve been living in the past.
As for “being in a hurry.” Being in a hurry would have meant pushing him out 2 years ago. If anything we’ve kept him far too long, and it’s unfortunate.
And it isn’t because the grass is greener, it’s because the pasture has been over-grazed. Remembering how green and thick the grass used to be isn’t going to make it grow back, nor show anything for what the next field holds.
The stat wont do anything to change his franchise significance in my eyes. It wont be the franchise record 70 games that the guy surpassing Matt needs to win. It’s the one game Matt couldn’t win for us, the only one that matters.
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 13, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
If anything, continuing to start Matt could only prove to diminish his legacy
Ugh….I’m not saying that’ll actually happen (I think Matt has cemented his status as the Seahawk’s greatest QB), but there is no reason to continue trotting Matt out there to get slaughtered. That is how dismal the situation is for this team right now.
I want what’s best for the Seattle Seahawks, and Matt isn’t it. Not anymore.
I See What You're Saying.
The “Old Man” getting one last shot to shock the world in a playoff game at Quest Field as the (8-8) Seahawks upset the heavily favored (12-4) Saints, or something like that. It would be a sweet way to go out, but I guess I just don’t have that much faith.
Besides, there would be another week to play, and few people (aside from Seahawk fans) remember Marino’s 20-17 win over a depleted (9-7) ’Hawks team to close the Kingdome so much as the 62-7 asskicking in Jacksonville in which he was benched.
I guess when weighing an opportunity to gauge some of our young talent for consideration for next season versus the liklihood of being a national joke, I take using the last three games to gauge talent. If we win, we win, and thank you Matt for the memories.
Most of my cliches aren't original.
- Chuck Knox
Grass is greener?
Trying to honor the past at the expense of the present/future is not in the best interest of the franchise. I love Matt for being the leader of the greatest Seahawk era. I also realize that letting him “make one last stand in his uniform” is not the way to run a successful franchise. What Matt meant to the Hawks as a player in years past isn’t what he means now. The Hawks need to field the team that gives them the best chance to win from this week forward. Put him in the Ring of Honor, and make sure that all future fans know what me meant our team and our fans, but lets move on and give ourselves the best chance for more success.
I agree.
I don’t like how wins are an individual stat for QB’s or baseball pitchers.
Hasselbeck WAS the man in Seattle, but he just isn’t the same anymore.
Let him finish out the season and move on.
I fucking love Matt Hasselbeck. He's Seahawks. He's Seattle.
But didn’t we learn anything from the Griffey debacle?
The best way for Seattle to honor our biggest, brightest stars is to let them go out on a high note to a standing ovation. We saw the alternative this spring.
So what we need is for Matt to fall asleep in the locker room during halftime?
by BrianL on Dec 13, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
If that'll finally get CW in the game.....then YES.
Obviously, I hope it doesn’t actually come to that.
What?
Literally the opposite of my point. Letting a guy hang around because he has “earned it” is not the right thing to do.
Griffey retired after nap-gate.
Brian is joking that a similar kind of scandal might force Hasselbeck out.
by John Morgan on Dec 13, 2010 11:47 PM PST up reply actions
I hate adding the suffix of -gate to everything of controversy or conspiracy.
Too bad the hotel wasn’t named something that could actually use a Watergate, and it was the Halibut Hotel instead.
then we’d have something beautiful…
Then we’d have Napbut, Monicabut, Nannybut, nipplebut, trooperbut, etc.
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 14, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions
I didn't mean you per say... just the general fact that we overuse it.
I tend to go the irony route as well.
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 14, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
NICE!
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 15, 2010 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
Oh... what if it is a self-appreciation thing?!?
“The Gates-Bates-Gate!”
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 15, 2010 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
You stay classy Matt Hasselbeck. Now please take a seat.
Matt needs to sit, heal his wrist, and Charlie needs to play. A loss is a loss, and realistically we have little or no chance of winning against the Falcons anyway. Charlie may not be the answer, but I’d rather him not be the question going into next season.
I have two #8 jerseys. One home blue, one away white.
I am a HUGE Matt fan! I love the guy and what he’s done for our team over the years he’s been here. I hated watching the last two years. As his front line and his receiving corps got carried off the field one at a time, by twos and threes and sometimes, it seemed, the whole squad at a time, I shouted at the “haters” and pointed out that NO QB could withstand two years with thrid stringers and off-the-street “talent”!
I hoped that this year he would come out, with his shiny new LT and his refurbished WR and remind the world one more time that, Yes Bristol, There Is A Seahawk! Well, done and done. It’s not to be. Our playoff hopes are rapidly dissipating and, as much as I hate to admit it, we need to look to the future. That shiny new LT and refurbed WR aren’t going to last forever, and it might be time to find a new virtuoso to make them look as good as they are.
Is Charlie the answer? If so, then Pete’s a freaking GENIUS! If not, let’s find out now and hunt down the next answer. Bring 30 QBs to camp next year and take the best and let’s get back to winning.
I pains me to write all of this, but FOUR INTERCEPTIONS?!?!? Nah…can’t have it.
by Tigloki on Dec 14, 2010 12:36 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I know it doesn’t sound like I am a fanboi of Hasslebeck. But believe it or not I am. But after 2+ years I just can’t take it anymore. It was too painful to watch Hasslebeck giving the game away with his pathetic decision making. Sure one of the INTS wasn’t his fault but what was his excuse for the other INTS, especially the ones in or near the Red Zone.
I just want his career with Seattle to end on a high note.
Not on a blowout loss where he threw 4 interceptions.
The high probability that it will take 3 more games.
To get that one win.,Says a lot about where Hasslebeck is at right now.
by Scotia Seahawk on Dec 14, 2010 9:07 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Easy solution.
Start Charlie in the un-winnable games, let Matt win the winnable one, and off we go.
As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.
by Bisquick McBob on Dec 16, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
Matt win 70?
Not this season. Unless you think the Hawks will beat the Rams in what will be (for seattle) a meaningless game at home.
John Hancock
Defense
Maybe if we didn’t give up 40 points every game and could maybe play with a lead once in a while Hasselbeck wouldn’t be forced into trying to put the whole team on his shoulders all the time. I still think that as long as we have a shot at the playoffs Hasselbeck should be our starting QB, he has experience, he knows how to get it done, plain and simple he gives us the best shot at winning this week and the rest of this season. Until we are 100% eliminated from the playoffs Hasselbeck deserves to play, he’s earned that right. If or when we are eliminated from the playoffs then Whitehurst can get his shot. Once the offseason hits we definitely should be in the market for our QB of the future. I wouldn’t mind them re-signing Matt as the veteran mentor to whomever our new QB will be. Regardless once his career is over we should immediately retire his number 8 and hang it in the rafters with Steve Largent, Cortez Kennedy, and Walter Jones’s.
The New York Islanders....they make opposing goalies look gooooood.
Matt will make the Ring of Honor
But there is no reason for them to retire his number. The first QB to actually win us a Superbowl should be the first # retired for a QB!
And if Matt would not put apposing teams in position to score so often our defense might not give up 40 points.
IF IT IS TRUE THEN WE ARE SO SCREWED
Matt actually got us to a Superbowl...
That alone is reason enough for his number to be retired. They retired Largent’s #80 and they never even sniffed the SB during his career.
The New York Islanders....they make opposing goalies look gooooood.
There were 46 other players on that superbowl team.
Are we going to put them all in the ring of honor?
Not trying to knock on Matt, but I’d say Jones/Hutch/Shaun were just as good of reasons we got that far.
Largent sniffed Canton.
Matt will, just like the rest of us, have to pay to get in there.
That’s the major difference, and why the only eight to be retired should have a zero behind it, or be a seven and a one added together to make it.
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 15, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Shaun deserves to have his #37 retired by the team as well.
Thats true there were other players involved in the Superbowl run but were any more important that Hasselbeck leading the offense and orchestrating it to perfection? I think not. Take away Hasselbeck for those years and plug in another QB I don’t think we would’ve been as good as we were. For the impact that Hasselbeck had on the team and his elite play during the prime years he deserves to have his number retired.
The New York Islanders....they make opposing goalies look gooooood.
I'm pretty sure that Shaun isn't retired yet
Last I heard, he was still waiting to be called back up.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 15, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
I would rather retire too few jerseys than too many.
So a HoF career, the greater bulk of it on the Hawks, is my requirement.
80
71
MAYBE 37.. based on if he gets into Canton.
If the NFL calls you HoF, I can pretty much be okay with the Hawks retiring your number. Or, perhaps it is “First Ballot” as a minimum requirement for retirement.
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 16, 2010 12:17 AM PST up reply actions
No love for 96, then?
‘Tez was a HOF finalist last year and finished in the top 10, so he’ll be up for debate again next year.
I was thinking about 'Tez when I wrote "first ballot."
I think the Ring of Honor is for great guys… retiring a number? that’s a whole additional level.
I’d rather it be very very special… and Largent and Big Walt aren’t just HoF players, at retirement they were both among the best all time at their position.
"You tell me with confidence that you think Charlie could have done better and I will laugh beer in your face." JohnnyOsprey
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 16, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Tez absolutely deserves to have his number retired.
You’re crazy if you don’t think a former defensive player of the year, 8 time pro bowler, 3 time first team all pro and 3 time second team all pro is worth of that. Tez was without a doubt one of the best defensive tackles of all time, I could care less if the Hall of Fame decides to recognize that or not.
Shaun won league MVP
That alone gives him in a better chance to have his number retired. If you look back at the numbers we went father when we had a premiere runner then just good QB stats. Example Warner and Alexander
IF IT IS TRUE THEN WE ARE SO SCREWED

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