Army of Okung
It takes one snap for Russell Okung to display how much better he is than his linemates.
1-10-SEA 22 (10:46) 24-M.Lynch up the middle to SEA 30 for 8 yards (96-T.Brayton)
Okung gets a good jump, gets under 6'6" 280 pound defensive end Tyler Brayton and walks him back three yards past the line of scrimmage. Marshawn Lynch follows his left tackle. He zigs left and towards Brayton and Brayton is able to disengage enough to tackle Lynch. Lynch stumbles forward and is down after eight.
2-2-SEA 30 (10:17) 24-M.Lynch up the middle to SEA 25 for -5 yards (54-J.Williams).
Okung walks Brayton back two yards before disengaging and burying a shoulder into free safety Charles Godfrey. Godfrey staggers back one and a half yards.Running tally, Okung: 6.5 yards. Opponents: 0.
Behind Okung, Derek Landri has beat Stacy Andrews so badly that Andrews and Chris Baker are forced to hold Landri from behind as Landri closes and crushes Lynch. He has just received the hand off. Lynch does his best to beast through the tackle, but Panthers swarm and he's stopped in the backfield for a loss of five. It's a drive-killing screw up.
3-7-SEA 25 (9:34) 20-J.Forsett right tackle to SEA 30 for 5 yards (91-E.Brown). SEA-17-M.Williams was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.
Hasselbeck audibles out of shotgun and into a stretch right. It's a sound audible, especially against the Panthers 3-2 front. Two Seahawks do their job exceptionally well. Neither is Stacy Andrews or Sean Locklear.
The key here is Everette Brown is unblocked. He shouldn't factor so long as Justin Forsett can achieve a clean release into the second level. Okung pulls forward. Chris Spencer angle blocks Nick Hayden and it's a beauty of a block. With one shoulder, he pushes and turns Hayden and passes him to Mike Gibson. Gibson is stumbling over his own feet before he can even reach Hayden but he recovers and contains. Spencer and Okung combine to block outside linebacker James Anderson in the second level, and Anderson is rubbed out. He's not going to factor in this lifetime.
There is a moment before everything breaks down where it's clear how this play is supposed to work:
Brown is trailing. Williams is blocking corner Captain Munnerlyn on the right. Okung and Spencer have Hayden surrounded. In that seem between Locklear and Gibson-Andrews is great potential. Yet, you can already see how this play fails.
Charles Johnson dominates Locklear and as Forsett attempts to pass his inside shoulder, Johnson raise his right arm and hooks Forsett, slowing him. Jon Beason separates from Andrews and extends his left arm and grabs at Forsett.
Forsett slowed, Brown can catch him from behind. Force makes it five yards before being tackled from behind. He falls forward and onto Mike Williams left ankle.
Locklear gets some kind of pass because of the difficulty of his assignment. Andrews runs too far right, has to suddenly cut back in and barely touches Beeson before Beeson is making a play on Forsett.
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I'm not in love with Andrews either, but again the guy is a tackle playing guard.
I’m sure even Big Walt would have had trouble if he was forced to play guard.
No way. If Walter played guard in the 70s he'd have single-handedly blocked Mean Joe Greene
out of the hall of fame.
by jacobstevens on Dec 7, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
OTs usually have an easier time playing OG
than OGs playing OT.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
So he's a potential replacement for Locklear at RT?
I wonder if we should have put Andrews at RT, and Locklear at RG.
I'm not saying it was a mistake or the logic was faulty,
but I just would be interested to know what the thinking was to go with this current alignment and not either switch or go with someone else at guard, either Lock or some guy off the Packer practice squad named Guido or Bruno or Otto or something.
by jacobstevens on Dec 7, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that might be a good idea
I think the main reason why he’s at OG now is that the right side is the only part of the OL that’s had any continuity this year. No matter how talented the linemen are, a good OL needs players that have rapport.
I think he’s a FA after this year, so I’m not sure what his plans are, but I’d be disappointed if he wasn’t in camp next year.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
I do think
that it would be playing more to Andrews’ strengths to match him up against smaller, lighter defensive ends than the 4-3 DT’s that have been destroying him all year. Fred Robbins, Richard Seymour, now Derek Landri…ugly.
Andrews is a monster, though
He’s definitely the biggest guy on the OL and may be the biggest guy on the team. I don’t know what his problems are but size and strength shouldn’t be.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
I think his issues may include
Leverage, Communication, Technique,etc
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
I've read repeatedly
that he’s a better guard than tackle. So…..yeah. He needs to be gone next year. And Locklear.
It's STILL Great to be a Florida Gator!
"Too many Urkels on this team, that's why our Wins-low." -Kanye West (slightly altered)
by Wayward Llama on Dec 7, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
He has tackle attributes, like height, arm length, agility relative to his size.
So people say he’s a tackle playing guard, when he’s played guard. Also because it had been due to injury situation and not because he played well or better as a guard.
Our coaches indicated specifically they got him to play guard. I don’t know if that was for thsi year only, and even if it was I don’t know if it’s not subject to change.
Mike Gibson has actually looked decent this year.
No he’s not great but I don’t think I’ve seen him get outright beat this year. In that first picture, he’s walked his man back even further than Okung has.
My mistake.
Still, he hasn’t looked terrible from what I’ve seen. At least not Andrews or Locklear terrible.
Nope, and he doesn't have a lot of dumb mistakes
like false starts, either.
It's STILL Great to be a Florida Gator!
"Too many Urkels on this team, that's why our Wins-low." -Kanye West (slightly altered)
by Wayward Llama on Dec 7, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
False starts are bad
but they’re not the worst sort of mistake an OL can make.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
They're definitely a top-2
Unless you count random things like unsportsmanlike conduct, etc.
by Jackrabbit5683 on Dec 7, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
Holding
and allowing opposing defenses to demolish the QB are worse. Sacks result in a loss of yards nearly equal to a false start, a loss of a down and a chance of injuring the most important player on the team.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
Touche
By mistake I was thinking more along the lines of penalties. And I just always feel like a false start takes the wind out of your sails, so to speak.
by Jackrabbit5683 on Dec 7, 2010 9:50 PM PST up reply actions
A false start sometimes feels worse than a sack
Especially when you’re a yard or two from the goal line.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
It shouldn't.
Since you don’t lose a down with a false start.
So who on the roster besides Okung could be called a "good" OL?
If Okung is that much better than everyone else, will every other player on the OL need to be replaced before we see consistently good OL play out of the Hawks?
Do you think Willis can be a starter still?
I suffer from IBS, otherwise known as "Influx of Billick Syndrome".
Sure. Willis isn't so bad
but you don’t necessarily want to start Willis. Someone that can be in the mix.
OG Rodney Hudson is a fringe first-rounder and would fit like a glove in the ZBS...
I’m just not sure if that’s what we’re even running anymore. Hudson might have to gain some weight to keep his stock aloft, a la Charles Brown.
Hudson is a guy that relies on technique and execution
He may be physically overmatched in the NFL or not have a ton of room to grow.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
Hudson is much more athletic than Unger
but I am also concerned about his size. Twenty years ago, he could have been a stud, but I’d rather not watch him matched against 3-4 ends.
Or he could turn out to be an elite talent
that was overlooked because he doesn’t have prototypical size for an NFL OL. That’s the gamble of the draft. You never know.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
I don't want to take that chance
I have personally had it with ‘grit’, ‘savvy’, skilled, ‘hustle’, undersized, heady, technique, finess, etc. I have seen way too many Seahawks games lost over the years as we are pushed around and dominated by larger, stronger, more athletic opposing lines.
A west-coast, “finess” team that falls apart in the snow or when the timing isn’t there.
Technique can be taught, and skills improved, but it is hard to teach athleticism, size and strength.
Unger is just the latest example of the failures of that line of thinking. Tats (when he was great) is a possible counter-example, but also hasn’t had a long run of dominance either — perhaps the edge for success for the undersized is thin.
I’d rather bet on bigger, stronger, faster horses building this team. The race may not always go their way, but that is the smart bet.
seems like that would take years...
Or maybe just a lot of luck
well, figuratively speaking
I was also wondering if Mr. Morgan had given up on Unger
by Jackrabbit5683 on Dec 7, 2010 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
but you said he should be replaced.
So you’re saying that the odds are not good that he’ll turn into a starter, so the Seahawks might as well look for a replacement.
Makes sense.
I see a reasonably high possibility that Unger becomes the O-line version of CraigTerrrill
Hustle, savvy, grit and technique balancing a lack of raw ability, size, and strength but never consistently overcoming.
I guess that means he'll be decent depth.
Especially since he can play both center and guard.
True. Just was hoping for more/better
Who, knows, maybe he will bulk up, work on strength, leverage and technique, while retaining his quickness and agility and gradually fulfill his original potential. Some guys are late bloomers physically and mentally.
Exactly
How long have we been waiting on Spencer to develop? How long has Unger had?
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 8, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
I don't remember Spencer ever looking as bad as Unger
but there’s no reason to give up on someone that’s cheap and under contract.
Solid analysis.
Thank you John, reading these for the past couple of years have helped me watch the games in realtime with a critical eye. I find my self looking at questions I have with your process.
So Okung, Spencer and Unger, and they keep the depth they have and look to draft and pick up players via free agency, but for whatnkind of system? Will they abandon the zone blocking scheme all together and go a different route?
Depends on who is hired on to coach the offensive line.
There more I see how limited and uncreative this rush attack is, the more I think Gibbs’ sudden retirement is a big part of why Seattle’s rush attack is broken.
I think they're related
If I remember correctly, we didn’t have much success running the ball in preseason. I think a lot of our problems have to do with continuity, trust and communication on the OL (kumbaya!). Lynch, Andrews and many of our LGs weren’t around for camp and we’ve gone through something like 9 or 10 different OL combinations in our 13 games.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
Trying too hard can be detrimental, definitely.
Case in point, the goal line runs that serendipity offered up.
I think those were more about team culture than anything else
Pete is into this New Age “positive thinking” thing. I think the goofy challenges and 4th-and-goal situations are more about trying to motivate the team and developing a hard-nosed culture (fighting for something rather than taking the easy, conservative route). I’m not sure if this sort of thing (trying to squeeze the best out of players rather than playing the safest possible schemes) will help in the long run, but I think its probably a big part of his coaching philosophy.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
I've seen it a thousand times, though.
What I’m alluding to. Good teams, bad teams, good players, bad players, Eddie George as a Cowboy even. Which is startlingly bad. Goal line in sight, when just another yard, just getting past one guy, just getting enough push against your assignment, is all it takes to get six, lot of guys suddenly are a lot more capable.
Even though running period opened up later on in the game against Carolina, I still saw a difference between the goal line runs and the successful runs outside the red zone, excepting Forsett’s beautiful runs which might have been his best all year.
And Gibbs never really had a chance to work with a starting OL unit
He wasn’t going to be making much progress if he couldn’t lead the same 5 guys for more than a game or two at a time. Gibbs’ system requires a high degree of continuity and familiarity and it just wasn’t possible to develop it, given the injury issues.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Dec 7, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
Will carrol just defer to the new coach?
What kind of system Has he run historically? I’m wondering if he will forsake the strengths of our current players to go in a new direction. I see him being able to handpick and coach up a lower round qb than a line man , maybe o and d line should dominate our first picks. Just thinking this thru….
He hand picked Whitehurst and has been coaching him up.
We need to get a QB high. That is our main priority in the draft. In Free Agency you can get OL,but can’t pick up a franchise QB.
by PhoneHomeET29 on Dec 8, 2010 7:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So it looks like Polumbus should play RG, move Andrews out to RT and
then draft more O-linemen next year? I’m tired of the lack of depth on this team but that is something that can take awhile to develop.
John Hancock
John - Any chance that you have checked out how Trent Williams has performed for the Redskins?
I know that Carroll and Co. were a bit surprised that Okung was still available in the draft… I also realize that 3/4 of a season does not a good data set make, but it seems that Okung plays with an edge that is desirable in a LT. I guess I feel like we sure got the ‘right’ guy… do the Redskins feel the same?

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