Seahawks [May] Recognize that Jon Ryan Is Not Very Good
by John Morgan on Feb 13, 2010 9:25 AM PST
Email
PrintI can't tell you much about Tom Malone, other than his name sounds like it should appear in a romance novel, but I can tell you that signing a punter is a possible indication that Seattle is not content with Jon Ryan. Actually, I take that back, I can tell you this about Tom Malone:
| P | YDS | AVG | LG | TCB | YDS | AVG | TD |
||
| 2002 (Fr.) | 62 | 2609 | 42.1 | 72 | 0 | 0 | 0.0 | 0 | 0 |
| 2003 (So.) | 42 | 2060 | 49.0 | 70 | 1 | 0 | 0.0 | 0 | 0 |
| 2004 (Jr.) | 49 | 2144 | 43.8 | 62 | 1 | -15 | -15.0 | 0 | -15 |
| Career Totals | 153 | 6813 | 44.5 | 72 | 2 | -12 | -6.0 | 0 | -15 |
CAREER: Malone's 44.5 career punting average (on 153 punts) is above the USC record (44.1 set by Des Koch in 1951-53) and just shy of the all-time Pac-10 mark (44.6, by UCLA's Kirk Wilson in the mid-1950s). Fifty-one of his 153 career punts have traveled at least 50 yards and 84 have pinned opponents within the 20-yard line.
What's missing from all this? Fair catches. Perhaps the most important stat a punter can have. But, of course, not tracked by anywhere I can find. Oh wait, here's an indication. USC ranked 116th in college football in return yards allowed in 2005. Malone punted 32 times and 22 times the opponent returned it. And when they did, despite USC's abundance of talent, they tore a hole through USC's coverage teams. Joy.
I don't think Ryan is a good punter. I have gone back and forth about this idea, attempting to isolate what it is about Ryan I dislike. He scores very well in advanced metrics, but I think those metrics are flawed. For one, they assume the punt and the coverage team's struggles fielding that punt are discrete, and they aren't. In fact, given the players that typically populate a return team, a motley crew of largely undifferentiated third-string talent, I would guess that the punter himself is much more influential in a return than the other ten players*. Typically, a good return results after a punt reaches the returner well before the coverage team can arrive, and a fair catch results when the coverage team can surround the returner before he catches it. That's accomplished by having the right mix of length and height, so that you don't over kick your coverage.
I summarized my opinions thus:
Long and shallow is just how [Ryan] kicks.
And that's very, very bad. Long and shallow is valuable to bad teams because they must struggle to flip field position. But who gives a damn about the punter on a bad team? Interim GM Ruston Webster is who. If Seattle becomes good again, Ryan's ability and type become a liability. On a short field, Ryan is either going to boom a touchback or slap a drive to the returner. He hurts Seattle more as Seattle becomes better. It's the curse of Tom Rouen reborn.
We'll see if anything becomes of this. Malone might be little more than depth. It's prudent for a team to have a player on speed dial just in case the punter is injured. Remember Ryan Plackemeier lost his job shortly after recovering from a torn pectoral muscle. What Plack was doing benching is still beyond me.
Plus! Cronyism!
*And check it out, USC, the most talented program in college football, couldn't stop punt returns in 2005.
71 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
And before someone posts the pat response that "it's just a punter"
Let me respond, you sweat the small stuff to accomplish the big things. I want to see evidence of good method in every decision.
"sweat the small stuff to accomplish the big things"
Football physics is the small stuff.
Why did the Cowboys set the bottom of their scoreboard at 90’? One reason is that their punting scheme goes for maximum distance over hang time. If the punt angle is 45-46 deg their kicker does not hit their scoreboard, the football goes the maximum distance downfield and their coverage guys are supposed to reach the kick returner before the returner makes up the difference that the ball goes further downfield. If you kick the ball for max hangtime and say to heck with the downfield distance, you kick the ball at like 56 deg and it goes up 120’+ into the air. In theory, the gunners travelling 10 yds/sec reach the intersecting point with the returner at about 10 yards from the catch, getting 50 yd nets (60 yd punts). In practice, Mat McBriar kicks the ball 41.5 yds on avg and his net yds = 39.9, still not so bad. Jon Ryan’s incidence angle is similar to McBriar’s, he kicks them 46.1 yds on avg (also not bad considering the humidity and air density at Qwest) but the net is only 38.5 yds. Still Ryan has booted one 70 yds with a 5.2 sec hang time. When the returner catches the thing, coverage is supposed to be within 20 yds of him. In one sec the returner should be 10 yds closer to the tacklers and the tacklers should be 10 yds closer to the returner – intersection. PR should be tackled at 60 yds from the LOS. Obviously it don’t work that way, but sometimes it got close with Kaz and some of the Hawks used to be coverage guys.
Kacyvenski has been out of the league since 2006 and never played with Ryan.
I read the linked post. It says absolutely nothing about the angle of Jon Ryan’s punts. What evidence do you have that “Jon Ryan’s incidence angle is similar to McBriar’s”?
Brainlock, meant Bannister not Kaz, and I know Alex never player with Jon, either.
Just meant to say maybe Hawks punt coverage team’s schemes haven’t been working, or players haven’t been performing or applying themselves as needed.
…evidence do you have that Jon Ryan’s incidence angle is similar to McBriar’s?
Geeze – nobody said I had to give evidence. Don’t have any. I do have PFF’s stats of max. HT of each punter for each game, and the NFL’s stat for the distance that each punt travelled in each game, plus the LOS and yard line the punt is received at or ends up on. If the punt isn’t received but bounces downfield and comes to rest, all I have is the final distance, not the yards in flight and I have no way of knowing whether the returner caught the ball onna hop or straight outta the air.
I also have stats from the NFL stat-keeper in the SEA@HOU gamebook that gives shorter HTs for Ryan’s punts in that game than the max HT given by PFF for that game. I think PFF uses the video to determine HT and that may somehow yield longer HTs than actually occured, or that were measured by the stat keeper at that HOU game. I don’t have a cross-referenced HT for McBriar, except for his statement that it would take a 4.9 HT to hit the Jerrytron 90’ above the field.
Peter Brancazio, did a study of punters. Brancazio’s 1985 study of 238 punts by 24 NFL punters found that punters don’t usually punt for max. distance but to balance distance w/HT. His study found that NFL punters kick the ball @ about 57 deg with an avg speed of 60 mph. With these parameters and simple calcs for gravity, an NFL punt would reach an avg height of 90 ft which equals Cowboy’s scoreboard ht. Add in air resistance and that decreases this number 10-15%, within the old 85 ft NFL standard. He also included parameters found for "elite" punters who punt the ball with speeds up to 70 mph. At the same average angle, that results in hts over 120 ft.
The physics of comparing the punting of different punters is kinda like watching an animation of the Crusader self-propelled howitzer firing 8 shells in sequence and watching them all land at the same time and at the same spot. The first shell is at the steepest angle and has the most accellerant, the last shell is at the shallowest angle and has the least accellerant. Elite kickers have faster leg / foot whips and the longest HTs, plus they have good distance that still allows the coverage unit to get down and corral the PR. Not sure how much can be typed here, so I’ll stop here and try to continue later.
continued?
‘09 Punt max HTs/max yds:
Mat McBriar’s. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Jon Ryan’s
Wk1 (A) =4.8 sec./63 yds. . . . . .(H) = 5.2 sec./70 yds, downed by SEA
Wk2 (H) =4.9 sec./59 yds. . . . . .(A) = 4.8 sec./67 yds, A.Rossum for 11 yds
Wk3 (H) =5.08 sec./52 yds. . . . .(H) = 4.7 sec./61 yds, D.Hester for 9 yards
Wk4 (A) = 5.0 sec./60 yds. . . . . .(A) = 5.1 sec./57 yds, TB
Wk5 (A) =4.6 sec./52 yds. . . . . . (H) = 5.1 sec./54 yds, M.Thomas for -1 yds
Wk7 (H)=4.8 sec./53 yds. .Wk6 (H) = 5.2 sec./62 yds, S.Breaston for 36 yds
Wk8 (H)=4.94 sec./58 yds. . . . . .(A) = 4.41 sec./53 yds, P.Crayton for 82 yds, TD
Wk9 (A)=4.61 sec./57 yds. . . . . .(H) = 4.9 sec./42 yds, fair catch by D.Northcutt
Wk10 (A)=4.8 sec./51 yds. . . . . .(A) = 4.97 sec./49 yds, S.Breaston for no gain
Wk11 (H)=5.22 sec./47 yds. . . . .(A) = 5.17 sec./67 yds, TB
Wk12 (H)=4.9 sec./56 yds. . . . . .(A) = 5.2 sec./65 yds, TB
Wk13 (A)=4.7 sec./59 yds. . . . . .(H) = 4.9 sec./55 yds, A.Battle for 31 yds
Wk14 (H)=5.0 sec./62 yds. . . . . .(A) = 5.0 sec./62 yds, J.Jones for 20 yds
Wk15 (A)=5.19 sec./54 yds. . . . .(H) = 4.91 sec./51 yds, S.Stroughter for 33 yds
Wk16 (A)=4.8 sec./60 yds. . . . . .(A) = 4.6 sec./64 yds, downed by SEA
Wk17 (H)=4.8 sec./54 yds. . . . . (H) = 4.5 sec./54 yds, A.Pearman for 11 yds
Equal hangtimes with equal distances means same incidence angles.
continued, again
McBriar’s 2009 Punting, with PR results for comparison
Wk1 (A) =4.8 sec./63 yds, C.Smith for 13 yards
Wk2 (H) =4.9 sec./59 yds, A.Bradshaw for 9 yards
Wk3 (H) =5.08 sec./52 yds, C.Munnerlyn for 2 yards
Wk4 (A) = 5.0 sec./60 yds, E.Royal for 14 yards
Wk5 (A) =4.6 sec./52 yds, B.Wade for -1 yards
Wk7 (H)=4.8 sec./53 yds, E.Weems for 10 yards
Wk8 (H)=4.94 sec./58 yds, N.Burleson for 5 yards
Wk9 (A)=4.61 sec./57 yds, D.Jackson for 9 yards
Wk10 (A)=4.8 sec./51 yds, T.Williams for 18 yards
Wk11 (H)=5.22 sec./47 yds, A.Randle El for no gain
Wk12 (H)=4.9 sec./56 yds, J.Higgins for 5 yards
Wk13 (A)=4.7 sec./59 yds, D.Hixon for 79 yards, TD
Wk14 (H)=5.0 sec./62 yds, D.Sproles for 14 yards
Wk15 (A)=5.19 sec./54 yds, R.Bush for 4 yards
Wk16 (A)=4.8 sec./60 yds, S.Moss for 14 yards
Wk17 (H)=4.8 sec./54 yds, D.Jackson for no gain
one more time?
Why would anyone wanna compare a probowl punter like McBriar to our Ryan? Just that it seems interesting.
Before DeHaven was Hawks STs coach, he was McBriar’s. DeHaven was Parcells STs guy. McBriar said he was told by Parcells that they (Cowboys) ‘had 10 guys whose job it was to cover his (McBriar’s) punts, so just give us your best kick’. Which McBriar took to mean he was to ‘hit away’ and just bang his punts as far as he could. Under Bill Parcells the Cowboys held the opposing teams to the worst starting field position off of kickoffs and the fewest yards per punt return in the NFL mainly because they had the best special teams coverage unit in the NFL. And McBriar made the probowl, mostly because the coverage unit bottled up every PR keeping Mat’s net yards high.
Parcells left and DeHaven got hired by TR as STs coach here in ‘07. Meanwhile, under Wade Phillips, Cowboys STs were coached by Bruce Read in ’07 & ’08. Under Bruce Read the special teams gave up several TDs and countless 40+ yard returns. Read was blamed for ’taking the best special teams coverage unit in the NFL and turned them into a sorry sack of scrubs.’
‘09, goodbye Read and hello Joe DeCamillis. After a very rough start with the practice facility falling on him, DeCamillis overcame major injuries and climbed out of his hospital bed to dramatically improved the Cowboy’s STs performance in ‘09. He altered McBriar’s approach, and turned him into more of a directional kicker to help with coverage.
DeCamillis was more interested in directional than distance punts, in cutting the field into quarters and limiting return angles. McBriar doesn’t line up directly behind the LS, but stands off-center to the side he intends to punt to, an adjustment designed to increase protection and give their coverage guys more lanes to get to the PR. Punt OL are a man blocking scheme on one side and a zone on the other, and are spread out more (wider splits) than in the past to provide wider lanes. That yields better protection and helps the OL guys get down into coverage, into their lanes faster and tackle quicker. DeCamillis also demands an aggressive, all-out approach to Cowboys punt coverage unit. McBriar also lines up 13 yards behind the line of scrimmage instead of 15.
"Arguably the Seahawks’ Most Valuable Player in 2009"
Huh, funny how different people decide to look at a position differently, and find either 1) an MVP caliber punter, or 2) a guy to be replaced. I think he falls into the middle, though obviously closer to replacement than MVP.
Is that an indictment on the return coverage
Or on the punter for outkicking his coverage and setting them up to fail?
The Seattle Times linked to my website in June 2009. I wasn't aware of this until January 2010.
by SSreporters on Feb 13, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Or did SC just have poor coverage?
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2010/stat-day-best-punters-2009
Football Outsiders stats had Ryan as the 4th best punter in the NFL, and:
“Jon Ryan wins the ‘punter screwed by his coverage’ award, as Seattle allowed ten different returns of 20 or more yards including two touchdowns.”
Maybe Ryan didn’t outkick the coverage, maybe there was just poor coverage?
In ‘08 Hawks coverage players got to play as starting WRs, so their coverage performance dropped. Last season, Hawks coverage was weakened because Mora cut faster coverage guys at the start (well, Kent), in order to emphasise the run and to replace injured OLers. I also don’t know how long it took DD Lewis and Milloy to get to the PR compared to how long it took CJ Wallace. Just watching it, maybe the punts didn’t have the hang time wanted, but Hawks coverage just seemed slow.
. . .in order to emphasise the run. . .
Or, maybe to try to keep some potential pass-rushers that we ended up losing anyway.
Well at least Brian Schneider wasn't the special teams coach during those years
just trying to look at a bright side. How is it teams aren’t aware of what makes good punter? You’d think they’d get a clue by now. I finally have, just this year (mostly with help from John’s analysis and own search), but it’s not like it’s my job.
While I don't have advanced metrics to support this,
only what I have seen for the better part of two seasons, here’s why I do not like Jon Ryan; (I’m quoting a very good Packer friend of mine here, as this was his exact quote to me when the ‘Hawks signed Ryan) "When he’s not kicking low scuds through the end zone, he shanks them." That’s pretty much where I come out, with a handful of exceptions.
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
"When he’s not kicking low scuds through the end zone, he shanks them."
In ’07 Plack ranked 12th among NFL Ps.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=PUNTING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go
In ’08 Ryan ranked 6th among NFL Ps.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=PUNTING&season=2008&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go
Of Ryan’s 78 ‘08 punts, 38 were returned for 324 yds (8.53 yds/ret), 8 were free catches, 9 went outta bounds (shanks or coffin corners?), 11 were downed by Hawks coverage guys, and 12 were TBs. One of those returned punts was off a blocked punt, and among those listed 78 punts, 22 were caught inside the 20. Ryan’s long of ’08 was a 63-yarder.
In ’09 Ryan ranked 7th among NFL Ps.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=PUNTER&season=2009&seasonType=REG
Ryan’s stats went up across the board in ’09. Hawks signed him to an extension that goes thru 2015. Maybe Tom Malone is brought into camp to give the same benefit to Ryan that Coutu did for Mare in ’08?
Those stats are next to meaningless.
Punting the ball far is not that desirable. A punter’s main value is preventing returns, preventing blocked punts and pinning the opponent within the twenty, and Ryan is weak at all those skills.
Well, I feel like arguing. FO's and NFLs stats are meaningless?
FO blames the net punt yardage on the lack of talent of the coverage team, not the punter.
Another good stat outfit is ProFootballFocus (PFF). By their rating system Ryan ranks 6th of 33. http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=P&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=8 (punters who’ve played at least 8 games)
Preventing Returns: Ignore everything but the % returned. OK, go to PFF and double click the header “% Ret.” Ryan ranked 18th of 31 in ‘08 w/50.7% returned, and t18th of 33 in ’09 w/48.3% returned. Ryan’s not the best, but he is not the worst and is showing improvement. Still, I don’t see good coverage vs returns. With a known poor KR/PR coverage team, returners are also returning Mare’s KOs from 5+ yds deep in the end zone (for a similar reason that they’re willing to gamble on PRs) they know they won’t get touched for 20-25 yds. I guess you could also say Mare’s not giving good enough hang times? But Ryan’s maximum hang time ties Shane Lechler’s, so it should be good enough?
Blocked Punts: Ryan joined Hawks after the BUF punting disaster in ‘08 when Plack was cut. Ryan had 1 blocked punt in ’08, in his 1st game as a Hawk vs SF. He hadn’t had a TC since GB cut him after his bad game (GB vs NYG) in the CC game. 1 blocked punt in his first game with a week to practice? I’d give anyone a break for that. Don’t see Ryan as necessarily weak here because of that(?)
Within the Twenty: In ‘08 Ryan was t17th of 31 with 22 punts inside the 20. In ’09 Ryan ranked 5th of 33 with 31 punts inside the 20. He’s getting better. 5th isn’t awfully weak, unless there’s a better punter out there.
I don't feel like arguing.
It doesn’t really matter to me what Football Outsiders, and by that I think you mean Aaron Schatz, thinks about Seattle’s cover teams. I doubt he even watched the Seahawks this seaosn. He lives on the East Coast and the Seahawks were not a hot ticket. It was a flawed interpretation of data.
Pro Football Focus stats do not mean anything to me. I don’t know how they are derived and don’t know if the are derived from a good method. Black box stats are just about worthless in my opinion.
The rates stats point to Ryan being mediocre. I think he only achieves mediocrity because teams fair catch punts in blow outs.
It’s not the total amount of punts within twenty, it’s the rate of punts within twenty during competitive game play. A lot of punts, especially a lot of punts in blowouts, will result in a lot of punts landing within the 20, but that says nothing about Ryan’s skill.
Actually, PFF stats seem good.
They look at each position criterion of every player’s performance on every play over the regular and post season. It’s exhaustive and eye opening.
It seems as though they form an opinion
And then back it up with “statistical” data, which clearly supports said opinion, rather than showing very open and accessible equations, and then from those findings deriving an answer. Many of PFF stats seem like “the man behind the curtain”, and they are “politik” in their ability to manipulate stats to say what they want. There is just a sense of mistrust there; statistics are too malleable to be trusted with a clear definition of exactly what was done.
man behind the curtain
http://profootballfocus.com/about.php?tab=about
Yup, yer kinda right. Their tables give the parameters and list the measured criteria they use to come up with performance values. They also norm the resulting scores, so the average player is listed as a performance of zero. They do describe what weightage factors they use (eg on DE players performance they distinguish between QB sacks [1.0] and hits or pressures [.75]). Otherwise parameters are all equal.
You can volunteer to help in the analysis of games, to breakdown player participation, writing articles, etc., and you can contact them with corrections, and to ask questions and they do respond well.
One thing I’d like to see in their system is the ability for users to change the weightage of parameters and for the program to automatically interpolate results. Say for punters for example, you want to lower the weightage of other parameters and raise the weightage for 3: fair catches, punts inside the 20, and fewest TBs. The program should be able to do this with auto-interpolation yielding the ranking of all punters according to those revised weightage factors. Most people view a QBs fumble caused by a blindside hit differently than a thrown pick. We don’t know who was responsible for what most of the time, just the outcome, and that everyone’s equally to blame is what PFF assumes. We might want to give more blame to the LT than the QB for the fumble, and more blame to the QB than the WR for the int.
Another thing I’d someday like to see made available online is a cut and paste vid of every punt by every punter (good and bad), as well as for every other position, for each player who’s played a snap in the NFL, every year. And one for colleges, too.
In '08 he had the second most TBs in the league.
And in ‘09 he had 3rd most. As far the rest of those numbers in an attempt to support or refute what I said; whatever. They really mean nothing to me. I’m not intentionally being dismissive, but I know what I’ve seen, and it hasn’t been good.
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
And let me clarify,
I’m not saying that you can just throw numbers out the window because you don;t like what they say. But in this case I find them very misleading and an accurate reflection of what the play on the field was.
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
Ryan had 11 TBs in '08, 9 in '09.
In ‘08, of punters who’d played at least 8 games, Ryan had 11 TBs in 15 games, ranking t4th for the most TBs (not 2nd). Those punters with more were Kluwe (13), Hentrich (13), and Lechler (12). Ryan tied with Zastadil. In ‘08 Plack (6th) had 10 in 10 games. In ’09 Ryan had 9 TBs in 16 games, ranking t6th for the most TBs (not 3rd). Who had more TBs? Oak’s Shane Lechler had 12. Who’s the concensus best punter in the NFL?
A couple of Ryan’s TBs were kicked well enough to be fielded inside the 1. Only clumbsy coverage caused them to be called a TB. I see a lot better punter in Ryan than Plack. Between getting a better punter and a better coverage unit, I’d take the better coverage team first.
I said he had 2nd most and 3rd most, respectively.
Not tied for 2nd and 3rd, they are very different things. And blaming the coverage unit for not downing the ball inside the 1 may as well be an inditement on Ryan’s lack of hang time, not allowing the coverage team into a position to field the punt. (Unless you have specific game examples, in which case I may wholly incorrect.) I have not found a specific hang time stat or fair catch analysis, league wide, that would be a very interesting comparison.
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
Yes, hangtime stats has been like a punter-stat holy grail.
PFF has max hangtimes for each punter, but does not list hangtime for every punt. http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=P&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=8
You may notice also that each punter’s number of fair catches is given.
I will say this much,
his numbers improved quite a bit from ’08 to ’09. An average of all would be interesting but also a bit misleading, I imagine, considering all the various circumstance that surround punts.
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
One thing I like about Ryan...
And it has nothing to do with his punting. While with the Packers, I saw him tackle a punt returner so hard, the guy practically lost his shoes. Punters don’t usually give it their all on coverage.
However, the most important thing about punters? Their punting! And Ryan isn’t exactly making positive headlines on the punting front. What percentage of the poor punt returns are his fault, and what percentage is the Seahawks punt coverage is tough to determine. But it’s probably 50-50.
As others have said, competition is the name of the game this year, so bringing in another punter makes great sense.
Obviously...
…the team has found its QB of the future! Ryan starts, Hasselbeck mentoring, and Wallace on the bench.
Carroll's practices are based on competition where the best player at each position
gets the start. I know many of you are used to non-contact practices conducted by Willingham at UW. Carroll’s practices will be full speed. I think this is why we are seeing some added depth that appears questionable. Ryan needs somebody in the eaves ready to push him down a staircase. Regarding the Foley signing, what is more dangerous for a ZBS? I would argue that speed of a rusher is more dangerous than size, hence the addition of a speed end to train the offensive line with. Who nows, maybe with these low level signings Carroll will ferret out a gem or two.
Extra bodies
Just like our earlier signing, this is just another body for camps so Ryan won’t kick all the time.
Nothing wrong with Ryan
If you have high net yards (over 4k) that just means your on a team that cant get 1st downs. 88 punts with a 46yd ave is pretty good. Its the ability to coffin kick and drop it inside the 20 that matters and it seemed to me at times he was the only one on the field you could count on.
Well beside sacks up the middle and getting thrown on all day long.
yea dude
Net yds
Net yards in 08 and 09 he’s 6th and 7th overall. 28 punts dropped inside the 20 in 09, thats respectable.
yea dude
His average nets yards in 2009 was 14th and it was 15th in 2008
Ryan doesn’t get credit for the team having to punt so often.
I would offer the abysmal STs under Carrol
All The Way, AIRBORNE!!!
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Feb 14, 2010 8:57 AM PST reply actions
Holy autopost!
Anyways, PC’s Trojans have always had awful STs units including punting, kickoffs, returns, etc. The lack of attention on this part of the game has frustrated USC fans over the last decade. However, no one seemed to really get bent out of shape as USC kept winning. The coverage units were especially poor as the stars never played on them and they rarely practiced in earnest anyways. If anything, the STs performance was a function of USC’s superior talent leading to a conceit that STs aren’t that important when you’re up by 28 points. Last year’s 4 loss team exposed the lack of attention on STs when USC was constantly in bad field position and leaving short fields for their opponents. So about being worried…
All The Way, AIRBORNE!!!
by Airborne Hawk Guy on Feb 14, 2010 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
On one hand, it makes sense that he's just an extra leg to create some competition.
On the other hand, John Schneider was in the front office when they got rid of Ryan in Green Bay. Hopefully there’s not much guaranteed money in that long term contract.
by Mind of no mind on Feb 14, 2010 11:02 AM PST reply actions
Hopefully there’s not much guaranteed money in that long term contract. . .
If there is, then Ryan’s likely gone this uncapped season to clear his dead cap from 2011. Too bad, Ryan was a vast improvement over Plack. Who was Hawks punter before Plack?
Tom Rouen - Right!
Was he a cap casualty, or did he get cut? I kinda thought he was good(?)
Oh-right, SB XL!
He had a terrible game vs PIT. He did good for Hawks that season until then, but that didn’t matter.
Touchback?
The Seattle Times linked to my website in June 2009. I wasn't aware of this until January 2010.
probably, makes sense
just used to seeing it “TB”
Intrigue!
I think 008klm did it. In the conservatory wit the monkeywrench.
But maybe communism was just a red herring. Maybe it was YOU? Who still reads Sando’s blog in February, anyway?
by jacobstevens on Feb 15, 2010 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
