Seahawks Extend Offer to Charlie Whitehurst
Pete Carroll wasn't kidding about win now. That is the only explanation I can think of for extending an offer to a quarterback that turns 28 before the start of the regular season. I typically think of Matt Hasselbeck as a late bloomer, but Seattle traded for Hasselbeck when he was just 25. Charlie Whitehurst thinks back to 25 nostalgically.
Carroll must see a lot in the Seahawks that he likes, because the best case scenario for signing Whitehurst is that he hits the ground running like Matt Schaub. Even Schaub didn't exactly explode on the scene. He endured a get up to speed season in 2007, but is now among the best quarterbacks in football.
The two have a lot in common. Both are prototypical in the generic sense. They are tall, pocket passers that can make all the throws. They both proved their ability in the ACC. Both were record setting quarterbacks at their respective schools, though Schaub owns a much better completion percentage. Schaub finished with a 66.9% completion percentage. Whitehurst, 59.7%. Schaub played with much better talent too. He was protected by D'Brickashaw Ferguson and threw to Heath Miller. You can also include Alvin Pearman, Billy McMullen and Marquis Weeks. Whitehurst got Dustin Fry, Derrick Hamilton and Airese Currie. You can pop in Chansi Stuckey too, but Stuckey only had 28 receptions before Whitehurst graduated.
Seattle does not have a third round pick, but has reportedly worked out something equivalent. Maybe a conditional pick next season, depending on Whitehurst's playing time. Without extending a lengthy analysis, I think Whitehurst is a pretty good play, and apart from Jimmy Clausen, perhaps Seattle's only chance to add a quarterback to a defense that should be hitting its prime. The upshot of trading for Whitehurst is that Seattle can now despoil the best parts of the draft. Neither Clausen nor Bradford are grade "A" prospects, whereas any other talent that could fall to Seattle at six is. Clausen has good potential and should be plug and play, but I can counter almost anything I like about him with something I don't. He may not be risky, but he may not have much more pro potential than Charlie Whitehurst.
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A QB who can make all the throws?
I’m tickled. Sign him up. This story is probably fascinating me more than it should.
Are the Cardinals involved simply as a cock-block? I don’t get the ’he’d have a better chance to start in Arizona’ stuff.
It sure would be nice to have more than bubble-screen, dump-off, and any 5-10 yard route passing attack.
I wonder if Arizona's even offering a third
It’s possible they aren’t. If they are, it’ll take more then Seattle’s third next year to get him. That’s what I’m weary about.
by B.B.Finnegan on Mar 14, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Reports say they are, and AZ has two 3rd round picks
Chargers would have no incentive to trade him instead of accepting the 3
by lemonverbena on Mar 14, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
The Chargers have no say where he goes.
It all depends on which offer Whitehurst signs. If he picks ours, then San Diego has to work out compensation with us or match. Doesn’t matter if they would’ve preferred he signed the Cards’ offer instead.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
He's 28, has played in two games in his NFL career and will cost roughly the equivalent of a third round pick?
Whitehurst interests me but I don’t know that I like this move.
I think it's like adding Jason Campbell
On the one hand, he’s not going to turn in Peyton Manning. On the other, all this talent that’s been amassed won’t simply go to waste. At least Seattle can attempt to be respectable.
by John Morgan on Mar 14, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
They're more confident in Whitehurst's floor than I am, apparently.
What if he bombs? Then you’ve wasted picks, time and the opportunity to draft Clausen/Bradford for a player that you knew from the get go has marginal upside. And if he pans out you get a few years of maybe above average QB play before you’re right back here again.
I understand that thinking
and respect it for sure, but I guess I also understand why the Seahawks would be wary about banking on whichever picks survives to six, assuming either do.
I wish they actually were adding Campbell however...
He has both potential and some proof to back that up
I'm happy
Whitehurst > Anderson
I’m hungover and full of memes! BOW! How ya like me now!?!
This move does reek. But Schneider likes to collect cheap QB’s and is, or has worked with fairly good judges of talent in that respect so maybe it’s like Kim Chi or Taku wan smells bad tastes good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
I was confused and a bit bummed by this news...
…but this puts things in perspective and cheers me right the fuck up.
Do we really know that...?
None of this discussion seems to have illuminated Whitehurst’s ability and potential. I want to know more about what this guy can and will do.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Delhomme is a broken quarterback who is old and well past his prime.
Anderson is a young-ish quarterback who has repeatedly shown that he is not very good.
Whitehurst is unproven but has potential. He has not demonstrated suckitude.
Whitehurst may turn out to be better or worse than both Delhomme and Anderson, but in terms of the quality of the signing, it’s a positive that the front office opted for the unproven potential over the broken old guy with no confidence left and the younger guy who has proved he sucks.
Oh no!
Of course I agree Delhomme and Andersen are pretty bad! I think the degree to which they are mediocre is debatable to some extent. At any rate my point is that Whitehurst seems to be one of the least well known veterans in terms of pinpointing his ability because rarely does a QB worth a darn spend that long on the bench.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I'm all in
Where does one put Seneca and Hasselbeck in this trichotomic shit stew?
might have to use one of these ≪ ≫
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
Right now?
Probably Whitehurst = Wallace > Hasselbeck. Next year probably Whitehurst > Wallace > Hasselbeck.
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Mar 14, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather have unproven with upside than proven mediocre (Quinn?) or worse.
See: Craig Terill, Michael Bennett.
by Misfit74 on Mar 14, 2010 12:55 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Terill's not bad
he’s good to come in and spell someone for a play or two…and he plays guitar Steve Raible really likes that.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Terrill is useless.
He gets thrown around like a rag doll most of the time. I sincerely hope he is cut before the season starts.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
by Wayward Llama on Mar 15, 2010 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I still remember commented on Sando's FB
with a comment almost identical to this, soonafter realizing the person I was responding to was his wife. Yeah, that didn’t go along so well.
6/14/40. Sweet.
by Nick Andron on Mar 15, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
haha
And here, she thought he was a perennially-overlooked all-star.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
The Arizona Cardinals' plan for success:
-Lose all talent on team to retirement and free agency.
-Call it a day.
by Wayward Llama on Mar 15, 2010 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
He can be a decent pass rush specialist in a rotation
you just don’t want him seeing regular playing time or he’ll get abused.
he's usually in a pile hard to tell what is going on the field on tv
but Steve Raible really likes his music.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Great writeup
I guess a lot comes down to what we would be giving up. If it’s a 4 and another pick this year, then maybe it’s too much to give up when there are so many other needs that could be addressed in the draft. The other side of the coin being, if the trade package is reasonable, then at least we aren’t spending so much draft value and future cap space on a quarterback. Especially since there are no clear-cut franchise QBs in this draft. Might be better to have a quarterback that’s both young(ish) and closer to contributing immediately.
So, assuming the Hawks won't keep 4 QBs on the 53, is this move more likely to mean
that Seattle:
A) Has no interest in dabbling with Mike Teel?
or that it:
B) Is not anticipating drafting a QB in the 1st or 2nd round?
Personally I would forecast that Teel gets cut in camp, Whitehurst and Tepikefevour duke it out for the backup position and most likely takes over when Matt goes down or gets benched.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
That's only assuming that Whitehurst is a (currently) meh to decent starter
which is by no means a given nor does there seem to be a consensus on.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
No. It assumes Seattle would not invest a third-round pick in a quarterback if it was targeting a quarterback at six.
Hmmm... well
What if Whitehurst were to replace Hasselbeck by next year at the very latest, and Clausen or Bradford hang back til a year or two after that…?
And I just realized that would never be viable because it would be too much resources invested in one position. >.<
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I'd be willing to bet part of our offer to Whitehurst includes where we see his place on the team
I would think that includes something about, you are the guy, we aren’t going to go after someone else.
Can't get into PC-JS's collective head, but...
I suspect it’s more a case that it looks like we’ll have about two chances to get one of those QBs at 6. (Slim and none)
But on the optomistic side, I actually think there’s a decent chance G.McCoy falls to us.
unless the QB's worth targeting that early are gone by then
Is Whitehurst a stop gap until we can groom one of the 2nd tier QB’s or even someone like Locker next year.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, then, if that's the case, then I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Gerald McCoy.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep dreaming boy-o.
As awesome as that would be.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
It's actually realistic.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Especially give some recent events that have changed the dynamic of the draft in the top 10.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Detroit will take Okung...
And that’s the key to McCoy becoming a ’Hawk.
I agree.
In fact, I now think it’s more likely than ever since the college season ended that Detroit will take Okung, given that Detroit traded for Corey Williams.
If this happens, then I feel that the Bucs will take Suh, the Redskins take a quarterback, Clausen or Bradford (if he’s available, and they’re already spending a shit-ton of money on Haynesworth), and then the Chiefs take an OT, given their resources spent on Matt Cassel. If it goes this way, McCoy is on the board for the Seahawks.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
If the choice comes down to McCoy or Berry.
I’m for McCoy. Not that I’ll be upset about Berry. I don’t think we could really lose in either choice. Now if we pick JPP…I might be a bit worried.
I would choose McCoy over Berry.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
McCoy all the way.
McCoy + Mebane pair will have a TON more impact than a new safety.
6/14/40. Sweet.
I will be really disappointed if we take Berry
even if McCoy is gone and the QB’s are off the board.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Who do we go with instead?
Do we continue our midget-backfield-dominance and take Haden? Do we go with a defensive end and grab Morgan or (shudder) JPP? Do we grab CJ Spiller in the worry that he won’t make it to our second pick (assuming we’ve targeted him as a player we want in the first round?) Bryan Bulaga? Zoltan Mesko, to go with our new all-retro-future team? Pray we can trade down from the pick and pick up a third rounder? Trade the pick for an autographed Shaun Alexander rookie card?
Ideally if we have Whitehurst
6 – OT or if somehow McCoy is available, he is too good to pass on
14 – OT or Spiller
40 – Houston (if no McCoy),
That would be a great first two rounds. I would be okay if we traded 6 back to the mid-round and got a 2nd out of it. We need a major infusion of talent all over this team.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm OK with this.
I’m not totally sold on Spiller, I think I’d be OK with waiting for another RB and getting another important piece earlier. But I also wouldn’t throw a total Mora-on-Mare bitch-fest, either.
I don't want to draft a guy in the 1st
who looks like he’ll be most useful in the return game. I’d be quite satisfied with Obo and Wilson, thank you very much. Basically all we need in a RB is a guy with good top speed and the ability to make good cuts right?
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I am hoping for a 4th rounder at RB.
I think there will be good options available, and most of them would improve our position over JJ.
Joe McKnight?
with a name like an R & B singer to boot
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm game for a McKnight. as long as he doesn't produce a single.
How about Montario Hardesty. I know he might not make it to the 4th, but he might be a good pick-up there. Ben Tate? Anthony Dixon? Are any of these guys good one-cut-and-go guys? Is one-cut-and-go what the RB’s do in zone blocking schemes?
Yeah in ZBS, the whole O-line keeps defenders moving
by staying on their blocks they look to make a hole via spreading defenders out. Whatever happens to develop, the RB (or lead blocker) has to immediately identify the hole or right hole and make one cut for it. Hence “one-cut-and-go.” Forsett worked so well cause he’s shifty and small enough to fit through smaller holes that develop.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I liked what I saw of Ben Tate
Hardesty looks good too.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
it depends on the Rams - if they go QB or DT
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Option B with a low draft pick or undrafted FA competing with Teel
and I would favor Teel against the field
by lemonverbena on Mar 14, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I certainly hope he's good enough to beat out Anderson or Quinn or...
…whoever’s left (Culpepper? Boller? Frye?)
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I am not sold on Teel
having seen a few Rutgers games he didn’t look very good against really bad Big East defenses.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I would have rather traded for Kolb, but I guess if Seattle's extending an offer to Whitehurst..
Philadelphia said, “Man, hell nah!”
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
I think Phili is realistic in thinking that Kolb is their guy for the future
Thats why they will listen to offers for McNabb
I do not blame them, and in fact, I quite understand. If I were them, I would have been extremely hesitant to give up him unless it was an offer I couldn't refuse.
Plus, they’re still a very young team, and they have like 4 or 5 picks in the first 4 rounds this.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not a fan.
Trading the equivalent of a third rounder for Jason Campbell is too much in my mind. The good thing about Campbell was that he was going to be cheap, once it became clear he wasn’t he was no longer a good idea. Whitehurst’s best case scenario is that he doesn’t suck and becomes a league average QB (as far as I know). But if you want a perpetual winner, you need a Manning/Brees/Brady. That’s the best way to ensure a chance at a Superbowl parade. We arn’t getting that. And taking ourselves out of the running for one means we won’t have one any time soon.
I’m sure John will do a in-depth review of Whitehurst. And maybe my mind will be changed. But this scares me. Because it puts us into a position where we delay getting a QB longer. And if Whitehurst busts, we are left with a team who’s core talent has aged too far to be around when a new QB is groomed. It’s the lack of upside I see in Whitehurst that makes me not like this deal.
Now with more lemon bars!
I think PC must see the same lack of upside in Clausen and Bradford
Like JM says, neither are grade “A” prospects. Maybe PC thinks that for the money Whitehurst has the appropriate level of upside and for the money Clausen and Bradford don’t.
Maybe.
And Whitehurst is just hitting his prime, so he may be able to put out some good football for a few years. But we need a good QB. Without one, our ceiling is….the Vikings.
Now with more lemon bars!
But if you assume that PC doesn't think Clausen or Bradford aren't going to be that guy
Then who is left?
At this point, I would attempt a trade for Kolb.
But no higher than a 2nd and perhaps a future pick.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
That offer and a buck will get you a coke
The eagles see him as their starter of the future. They would require a 1st round or equivelent.
Then I'd have done my best.
No way would I give up a 1st round pick for him.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I've just fallen in love with the idea
that this is the perfect time for our team to snag a top quality QB prospect. And it appears that we arn’t going to. Maybe that prospect doesn’t exist. But if he does, we have the ammunition to get him. And getting that QB prospect gives us the chance to compete for years to come. Because QBs are just that important.
Now with more lemon bars!
Spending a high pick on a QB when none of them grade out (if this is the case in Carroll's war room) is reaching
and has the potential to leave your team wandering in the wilderness of mediocrity for years.
by lemonverbena on Mar 14, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
See Alex Smith, Jamarcus Russell, etc.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Let's see..
Troy Aikman (1st overall)
Sammy Baugh (6th overall)
Terry Bradshaw (1st overall)
Bob Griese (1st overall)
Norm Van Brocklin (4th overall)
Jim Kelly (14th overall)
John Elway (1st overall)
Len Dawson (5th overall)
Otto Graham (4th overall)
Bobby Layne (3rd overall)
Y.A. Tittle (6th overall)
That’s a list of every modern era HOF QB take in the top half of the first round. Guess how many weren’t taken in the first 15 picks?
Johnny Unitas (9th round)
Steve Young (taken in the 1st round of a supplemental draft from bankrupt USFL)
Sonny Jurgensen (4th round)
Bob Waterfield (5th round)
Roger Staubach (10th round)
Warren Moon (undrafted, possibly because he was a black QB)
Frank Tarkenton (3rd round)
Dan Marino (1st round, 27th overall in the same draft as Elway and Kelly)
Bart Starr (17th round)
There’s as many top 15 overall HOF QBs as there are QBs taken in every other round and the second half of the 1st combined. If you want a great QB, he’s probably coming out of the top 15 picks.
Side note: I didn’t realize but there were quite a few QBs back in the day who also handled punting duties. Crazy.
Now with more lemon bars!
I think you're playing it a little fast and loose with the term "modern era."
I wouldn’t consider Baugh, Bradshaw, Griese, Van Brocklin, Graham, Tittle, Dawson, or Layne modern-era. The game has changed drastically in the past 20 years, so I wouldn’t consider anyone who played before 1990 “modern.”
by SeaTownBlueDevil on Mar 14, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I used it based off the HOF's useage of the word.
There are over 20 QBs in the HOF from the pre-modern era as well (which is like pre-50’s).
Now with more lemon bars!
In addition
if you want to use only today’s version of the NFL, you are dealing purely with speculation on which QBs are good enough for the HOF and who isn’t good enough. Because the true modern NFL is only ~10 years old, and none of those guys have retired yet. Moon is the closest to that, and he was still long ago enough that the idea of a black QB that didn’t scramble all the time was foreign to most teams.
Now with more lemon bars!
Where is Joe Montana on that list?!?
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Mar 15, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Hah forgot him.
I went over the list once for the first part of the list, then went over it again on the second part. I must have mentally skipped over him when I hit the Jim Kelly, John Elway, Dan Marino, Joe Montana part since I knew where the previous 3 all fit in already.
Now with more lemon bars!
Staubach wasn't drafted due to Navy service
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions
No.
He was drafted, then served his time in the military. So he was a drafted by the Cowboys (and the Chiefs actually, since the NFL and AFL were split and had different drafts) and then played for them after he finished his military service.
Now with more lemon bars!
That wasn't the point
So half a dozen modern era QBs who were HOF and taken top 15. Probably another half a dozen who are currently playing will eventually meet that criteria. The point is that you have to look at what they could end up like:
Mirer, Couch, Carr, Ware, McGwire, Klingler, Shuler, Leaf, A. Smith, McNown, Harrington
Just cause you get them in the top half of the first doesn’t mean that they are going to be HOF. Plenty of people scouted those guys and thought that they would be the franchise. Then they paid them a lot of money to suck. If PC doesn’t believe that Clausen or Bradford are grade A prospects worth #6 money, then why would you reach?
At this point, a grade B prospect might be worth reaching for.
Because I don’t think we’ve got a passing-grade QB on the roster. And even C’s will get you through college.
No.
It was my point. It doesn’t matter how many QBs bust. What matters is that the vast majority of top quality QBs come out of the first round. So if you want an elite QB, your best bet is drafting one early. And if you want a reliable shot at winning the SB, you need an elite QB to keep you in contention year in and year out (IE Peyton).
The fact that there are a lot of high profile busts over the years simply means you need to hedge your bets a bit and not put your franchise’s future on the back of one QB. You hope he works out, but you make plans in case he does not.
Now with more lemon bars!
But you can't just blindly pick the top QB each year and expect it to work out
If they look at this list of QBs and say that in most years they would barely be first round picks, then why spend the money. I agree, we need to spend a top 10 pick on a franchise QB, but it would be a devistating mistake to spend a top 10 pick on someone who the front office doesn’t believe in. I agree to be a winner year in and out we need a top 5-10 QB. It just looks like the FO might not think that anyone available at the #6 pick is really a top 5-10 QB.
Schefter
RT @MoveTheSticks: I keep reading Clausen is going in top 10 but I’ve yet to hear any scout/coach/exec tell me they have him rated that high
by lemonverbena on Mar 15, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Thx for passing this on.
Not to put a lot of stock in it. But it’s something.
by jacobstevens on Mar 15, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I trust the front office to have more information than me
if there is something that they aren’t buying about Clausen then I trust them on that. I am curious about Bradford’s arm and if it is better and what that will do for his stock.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
See, I don't trust the front office yet.
I’m too used to Bavasi and it was translated to the NFL. They have to earn my trust. It doesn’t help that Clausen’s arm is getting weaker by the day apparently. Seriously, Clausen went from not having an elite arm to (as some would have you believe) having a pea shooter that can barely make NFL short passes. It feels like all the pundits are just echoing each other, only making it slightly worse every time.
Now with more lemon bars!
I think this largely depends on your exposure of punditry.
From my POV, it went from somewhat weak, to not an issue. And now back to being, well, maybe best described as “not a positive” attribute, rather than a real knock.
Here’s what I see, when I watch Clausen: a solid and consistent dose of high arcing passes. Not lofted, not floated. Not thrown so high because of arm strength limitations, necessarily. I am convinced that’s not the case because a lot of high arcing passes aren’t dramatically down field. Also some 25 yarders are more frozen roped. Relatively speaking. Not a cannon, but no window-shortening from the velocity. At least not for college.
And that’s the one thing that makes me a little bearish on Clausen, is windows. Lots of us pro-Clausens counter claims of his superior WRs with his atrocious line. But he was given big-time windows. Underthrows were covered up by great snags. Not a lot of underthrows, but some.
I saw a lot of play to make me think he’ll adjust well. Smart throws and well touched throws, and very few throws that would be reckless with shorter windows. And the ability to sling it well over 20 yards quickly without arcing. Kind of like late-era Warner. Really deep stuff probably will get topped off in the pros. But I don’t see much difference between Weis-era Brady and Clausen, in what kind of throws were constituted and how well they were thrown. I don’t mean to put any all-world ceiling or potential on Clausen, necessarily, but I think the big thing we’re all wondering about Clausen is where is the limit on him, and is that good enough to be really good in the pros. I still think it is.
by jacobstevens on Mar 15, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
No you can't
but if you look hard enough you will find a flaw in every top rated prospect. Manning had happy feet remember? There’s always something.
Now with more lemon bars!
...
but it would be a devistating mistake to spend a top 10 pick on someone who the front office doesn’t believe in.
If the front-office doesn’t believe in a guy, they aren’t drafting him.
Of course not.
I just worry that they are making the wrong choice. It’s easy for people to talk themselves out of a top rated QB prospect because of the potential downfalls. And a lot of the time it’s for a reason that has been blown up to be bigger then it is.
Now with more lemon bars!
While your chances may be merely 50/50 in the first round
In the second round they drop to about 1/10 or 1/5 success rate. Wasn’t there some study on this just last year?
by B.B.Finnegan on Mar 15, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Campbell has proven to be mediocre to average and has had enough playing time to become great if he was going to.
Whitehurst is a bit of a swing for the fences. We could strikeout or hit a home run. Campbell is a single or double.
I'll take a slap hitter who knows how to take a walk
He might not be an all star, but he will generate wins the ugly way
I don't think Whitehurst has that kind of upside.
It’s more like, he might strike out or hit a long double.
Now with more lemon bars!
but a long double can becomes points for the next batter
I think Whitehurst is a stop gap, he won’t be worse than Matt, but could possibly be better.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm just worried that a stop gap is wasting the years of some of our talented players.
Mebane, Tatupu, Carlson. They arn’t getting younger. The longer we delay getting a franchise QB, the further back the QB building process is set. Which in turn sets us further away from a future SB. And if we take too long, we’ll have to replace our talented players. Which further sets us back. Yes, Whitehurst may improve our team the next year or two. And I don’t mind this at all if we also draft an early QB this year. Then we’d have 3 unproven QBs that could duke it out. For such an important position, grabbing loads of QBs and hoping one of them turns into a great one isn’t a terrible idea.
Now with more lemon bars!
But there isn't a HOF QB who can play at his peak just waiting to sign for us
Even for 1st round money. It may not be the ideal scenario, but it may be the best performance out of the postition that we will get for next couple of years.
No
but a QB taken now and given a couple years to become productive will be hitting his peak right as some of our older top tier players are hitting their decline. That would allow for a good run at a SB. Waiting means those players (Tatupu, Trufant) could be on the down swing of their careers.
Now with more lemon bars!
You are assuming that someone that we pick in this draft has a higher peak than the current RFA we are looking at
That is a big assumtion.
How?
This guy was a third rounder and sat on the bench for several years. Even during his draft he wasn’t regarded highly enough to warrant a high pick. And now he’s 28, has lost tons of development time, and is being shipped out for a third rounder.
Now with more lemon bars!
Who is to say he hasn't been able to develop during his time with SD?
Turner, Rivers, and Volek aren’t inanimate objects. He has also played in the pre-season.
How did Hasselbeck develop prior to becoming our starter?
Hasselbeck sucked a lot as a starter his first year.
Rivers, Romo, Rodgers, Hasselbeck and Brady all improved after their first year playing. You can only practice so much, eventually you have to learn by experience.
I think Matt's come to terms with it.
But that doesn’t mean Whitehurst isn’t the anti-Hasselbeck in terms of hair. Good point.
this tells me they don't think clausen or bradford will make it to #6...
which is nice because i also don’t think they will be.
so instead we get a big strong passer who can make all the throws, who’s already been in the NFL, who’s young enough to be good for 6-8 years, and can step in and start when hasselbeck’s contract is over.
this move will also allow us to use #6 on a player who can make us better right now, like eric berry, or okung, or one of the DT’s.
…and it’s too early to assume he’ll be the next jason campbell,
when he could also be the next tom brady…
I like the move.
says who?
what round was brady drafted in?
how did he end up starting?
was he even a star at the QB position (prior to randy moss), or merely a good one who could manage games?
Passing Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2000 NWE 1 1 3 33.3 6 2.0 0 6 0 42.4
2001 NWE 15 264 413 63.9 2843 6.9 18 91 12 86.5
2002 NWE 16 373 601 62.1 3764 6.3 28 49 14 85.7
2003 NWE 16 317 527 60.2 3620 6.9 23 82 12 85.9
2004 NWE 16 288 474 60.8 3692 7.8 28 50 14 92.6
2005 NWE 16 334 530 63.0 4110 7.8 26 71 14 92.3
2006 NWE 16 319 516 61.8 3529 6.8 24 62 12 87.9
you know who has similar numbers?
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
1999 GNB 16 3 10 30.0 41 4.1 1 19 0 77.5
2000 GNB 16 10 19 52.6 104 5.5 1 27 0 86.3
2001 SEA 13 176 321 54.8 2023 6.3 7 64 8 70.9
2002 SEA 16 267 419 63.7 3075 7.3 15 49 10 87.8
2003 SEA 16 313 513 61.0 3841 7.5 26 80 15 88.8
2004 SEA 14 279 474 58.9 3382 7.1 22 60 15 83.1
2005 SEA 16 294 449 65.5 3459 7.7 24 56 9 98.2
2006 SEA 12 210 371 56.6 2442 6.6 18 72 15 76.0
2007 SEA 16 352 562 62.6 3966 7.1 28 65 12 91.4
matt hasselbeck.
Whitehurst has been behind Philip Rivers and Drew Brees, and hasn’t even had a chance to play in the NFL.
He could be the next tom brady, or the next matt hasselbeck.
He could also get injured in practice and never play again.
We don’t know until he plays, so for now, I’ll be optimistic.
..
A more accurate comparison would be Kurt Warner, who also made his first start at 28.
Which isn’t so much optimistic, as expecting to win the lottery.
Brady accomplished more than Matt Hasselbeck at a younger age.
In terms of career value, the two do not compare. I am not sure what you hoped to accomplish by cutting and pasting their stats, but Brady has a career 6.7 adjusted net yards per attempt. Hasselbeck has a career 5.6 adjusted net yards per attempt. That means the difference between Brady and Hasselbeck is about the same as difference between Hasselbeck and Trent Dilfer.
What would Hasselbeck do on the Pats?
Imagine if we were discussing a shell shocked and beat up Brady here.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I know we are not but the team matters
The Pats were the team of the decade and other than ’05 we have been good but certainly not great.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I wish people that constantly defend Hasselbeck would go back and watch tape of what he once was
The guy was not born a frail game manager. He was quick, elusive and could zip passes on the move and to anywhere on the field. In the NFC Championship, he juked Julius Peppers out of his shoes, twice. He is not that player anymore. It’s not the line’s fault, it’s not Deion Branch’s fault, it’s not the running game’s fault. He just got old.
by John Morgan on Mar 15, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
well said
people never bring up how agile he once was, I was campaigning his scrambling abilities since 2005. The dude could avoid pressure with the best of them until his back gave out.
by Hancock.Brett on Mar 15, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
None of those other aspects of our team help the guy.
But you’re right about everything you say here.
I know part of it is being able to send him out in a way Seattle hasn't sent off QB yet
With some sort of positive note.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
If you ever wondered about Brady - watch his final game at Michigan
35/47 Passes for 369 Yards 4 TD’s 0 INT
He looked every bit like Tom Brady in the NFL and god only knows why he fell so badly in the draft?
Terrible scouting?
Did you find that picture underneath John Madden's mattress?
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions
We don't know what we are getting
which is really the same thing as all the QB’s in the draft, but at least Whitehurst is cheaper. Who knows this way we can have 2 OT’s and a DT with 6, 14, and 40.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Is there any place to see recent footage of Whitehurst?
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
This was the last picture of him.

I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Mar 14, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
Photoshopped
the original bigfoot was carrying a case of Rainier.
inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
by shams on Mar 14, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if the Whitehurst pursuit is also a sign that both Bradford and Clausen will be gone by #6
If the Seahawks REALLY REALLY want Clausen then that would be good reason for the Redskins to want to draft him, or someone to trade up ahead of us (I think the Chiefs are likely to move down, if they can). And if we don’t want Clausen, then Whitehurs is as good (or better) than any other available option out there for another QB.
There are plenty of plausible scenarios where the Seahawks don’t take a QB in the 1st two rounds of the draft, even if we don’t acquire Whitehurst.
I think it's a just in case Bradsen is gone by the six
Although it’s certainly possible they don’t like either of those two
by B.B.Finnegan on Mar 14, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I like "Clauford" better...
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Slingin' Sammy!
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Mar 15, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I really don't know about this move
But he could be an okay backup (with actual potential) should Hass go down or a rookie not pan out, or be already selected above us. Just impossible to tell since he has no real game experience. I don’t know, I get it, there are just are so few options this year, and he’s better at this point then the already knowns (Anderson, Quinn, Delhomme, Campbell, Hass, Wallace).
I'm not sure Whitehurst would be considered a fallback option
since we’ll be spending the equivalent of a 3rd on him. This sounds like an investment, not insurance.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Semi-related
Jay Glazer reports (via twitter, ugh) that Brady Quinn has been traded to Denver for Hillis and a couple conditional draft picks.
I fucking hate you Mariners
Somebody put out an amber alert for Josh McDaniels
because he is a lost child
by lemonverbena on Mar 14, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Poor kid...
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Glazer says a 6th in 2011 and a conditional in 2012 (and Hillis).
That’s pretty cheap.
Yet strangely, Theisman and Montana are never the ones in the cloning queue.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Mar 15, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Genetic drift.
Some day, the suck of Mirer may turn into an evolutionary advantage on the field.
by jacobstevens on Mar 16, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Which is obviously the point I was making
by lemonverbena on Mar 14, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Totally thought that was Sean Astin
not Joe Montana.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
If there's one man I never want in a Seahawks uniform
it’s Ben Roethlisberger. GAAAAH just typing his name makes me angry!
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Also Schefter says the Conditional 2012 is "Late Round"
Last time I heard that phrase was the 7th round we got for Seneca.
Wow, so a steal.
Honestly, I don’t see how Quinn’s stock has fallen that far. How much would it take to get Leinart? If anything I think their stock should be about equal, somewhere between a 2nd and a 3rd.
It would likely take more
Because most general managers are not as rash as Mike Holmgren. When he makes his mind up about something, God help whoever is in his doghouse. If it wasn’t for injury, I think the Seahawks would still be starting Trent Dilfer. And Shaun Alexander. And Floyd Womack.
God help whoever is in the doghouse
“+1”
-Julius Jones
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
The Arizona Cardinals' plan for success:
-Lose all talent on team to retirement and free agency.
-Call it a day.
by Wayward Llama on Mar 15, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
You're right.
The good thing about this is that it makes me glad we didn’t get Holmgren for GM. I was undecided it about it before, but I hate when guys sell low just because someone isn’t ‘their guy’. Though our current FO’s ability is still to be decided, so I can’t be too glad.
I am not sure Holmgren could have gotten much, anyway.
Quinn had already sold his house prior to the deal. It didn’t help Holmgren’s leverage situation if you couple that information with the information that Holmgren was looking to dump Cleveland’s quarterback and replace them .
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 15, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know, part of me thinks it would have been better to stick with Quinn
I mean, Jake Delhomme?
Well sure, I'm not disagreeing there.
But once the Delhomme is inked, well
Yeah this move makes sense with Delhomme on the roster
but big picture holy fuck why?
Maybe he plans on going after one in the draft.
Delhomme and Seneca are depth, Quinn was never part of the plan and DA sucked.
He was guaranteed 7.75 over 5 with 3 years already accounted for.
I don’t have any clue about the incentives (he was paid out some of those in the last two years). He’ll be certainly making more than he made last year (2 mill and change).
Don't question the genius of the Walrus.

It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
by Wayward Llama on Mar 14, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
When he gets pissed at someone though...
Maybe Quinn pissed him off
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions
There was nothing ever more comical...
(and sad because I’m a Seahawks fan) than Holmgren’s round, angry, red face.
That always cracked me up
and Bill Parcels turkey neck is a close second.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I still miss the Walrus to be honest...
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I agree.
Delhomme is fricking terrible.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
by Wayward Llama on Mar 14, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe he sympathizes with Delhomme because he is color blind
He knows what it is like to be a shitty QB
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
He wants to re-make Delhomme
already got the QB genius label, it’s easy to go and get developing backups like Hasselbeck and turn them into something. Now he wants to find QB talent where everyone is sure none could possibly exist.
by jacobstevens on Mar 15, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I would guess the Browns are entering the Clauford sweepstakes
Holmgren might try to trade up to #5 and draft whichever QB is there. On paper it looks like a good theory: Sign a proven veteran, trade for a proven backup and draft a young QB to develop while siting on the bench or at least a year. However, on the field I imagine it being a different story. By week 5 Delhomme will be benched for bad play. Wallace will come in and play poorly, but put up mediocre stats. Then by week 13 they will put in the rookie since they are out of contention. Just a guess.
When you are digging out of the hole that cleveland is in
Thats not that bad of a plan. Especially if you did it in an uncapped year and the money you spend doesn’t effect your future cap considerations.
Yeah
It doesn’t seem like a bad plan, but I don’t think Dehlomme is the veteran you would want to go with. It’s a waste of money and with less offensive weapons he’ll probably be worse than he was last year. I were a Cleveland fan at this point I would probably prefer to just go after Claussen and have him start from the get go.
I'm just glad we didn't sign Delhomme
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Would Colin Cole and our fourth do the trick?
They did just lose Jamaal Williams.
I hate when people on NFL.com or wherever
say that we’re fine at DT.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Ha!
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
You laugh! But somehow the world is ignorant of Colin Cole.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
What can I say?
I never wanted him on the roster.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
they only say that based on our depth chart
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
They don't realize we run a 4-3.
We need TWO DTs, people! Me! and Bane! are not separate individuals.
So for some combination of spare parts and late round picks the Hawks could have aquired Reggie Brown, Chris Houston and Brady Quinn.
Instead they’re trading a third for Charlie Whitehurst.
I can only hope that speaks to their ability to evaluate talent.
Though Houston would have been an interesting add, Brown and Quinn are just another version of Payne and Frye as far as I’m concerned.
A former second round pick with 177 catches for 2574 career yards is another version of an undrafted receiver who's caught 3 balls in his career?
The Quinn and Frye comparison is similarly odd. And even if you are right and they never do anything the most you would have given up is something like Seneca Wallace, a 5th round pick and a couple 6 rounders to get both.
I never even heard of this dude until a few days ago.
I think I was calling him “Zoltar” or something when we played them in the preseason, because he looks like a sorcerer with the long hair and beard. I think that was him. This is all so bizzare to me, thinking we may be going after a no-name with so little experience to possibly helm our team this season.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
Did he come in on the seaplane, I wonder?
I bet he would enjoy it much more than that douche Brandon Marshall.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
by Wayward Llama on Mar 14, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't decide...
Zoltar, Zoltan, or Zohan? “You don’t mess with the Whitehurst” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Up in the Air on this one....
I didn’t really know much about Whitehurst until I pulled up some game films on him……I saw a couple of things that worried me right out of the gate….first, I’d say most of his passes stright from the pocket seemed to be behind the receivers a bit….second his throwing motion didn’t seem to put much zip on the ball. I didn’t see any real floaters, but I think this kid could have Elway-like strength if he leans into the pass. The other issue of being late on release or misjudging the speed of his receivers would be a definite issue unless fixed. The films I watched were all Clemson tapes and the fact that he hasn’t played any regular NFL games are a little scary. NFL receivers and DB’s are much faster than those in college ball. Maybe under the right teacher, he can be an NFL caliber quarterback….only time will tell.
He has had 4 years practicing with NFL Recievers and DB's
I am sure he is much more refined now then in the youtube footage of him in college. I looked up some of that footage as well and tried to take a look at him. But you must take it with a grain of salt he’s had 4 years of coaching behind Phillip Rivers.
Can someone do some digging on Whitehurst's preseason performances?
Matt Hasselbeck was known as “Mr. August” in Green Bay because of his superb play in training camp and preseason games.
Since Whitehurst has never even thrown an NFL pass in a regular season game, do we at least have evidence to suggest that he was showing flashes of talent during the preseason?
Did he stand out to you at all in our annual preseason game with the Chargers?
I watched the entire game last summer, but I don’t remember his TD, INT’s (2) or fumble.
I remember Whitehurst did not strike me as anything noteworthy, but that the Chargers second team offensive line was very weak.
I like Whitehurst in terms of potential
I wouldn’t rush to evaluate him. If he signs Seattle’s tender, I will be happy to let him prove himself in the preseason.
If he continues to play against 2nd and 3rd stringers
Then I would still be reserved in passing judgment.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I find it interesting that Holmgren is doing what Seattle perhaps would be wise to do
Blow it up. Leroy Hill, Trufant, Sims. All could be traded for something decent, no?
Am I crazy for being concerned that Seattle thinks they can win the west in 2010, get older and perhaps lose more talent next year, without sacrificing the future?
Am I overreacting yet again?
It is what it is...
Um, isn't Holmgren bringing in Delhomme?
Doesn’t sound very “blow it up” to me.
by djafrot on Mar 14, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
And Seneca
Or basically the last two years of Seattle QBing.
by B.B.Finnegan on Mar 14, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you may be oversimplifying, which seems to be trend on Field Gulls recently.
Seattle is not sacrificing the future unless it starts to invest major resources into winning now. A third round pick or the equivalent is a reasonable price for a quarterback with some potential.
Also, I don't know why Holmgren would blow up Cleveland
There is some definite potential on that roster. It would be digging up the buds to replant the seeds.
Wimbley for a third
I do not know enough about Wimbley to be sure, but it sounds like selling low on a talent in his prime.
Pass rushers traditional take a few years to develop, as we've seen in our discussion on Tapp.
Wimbley is an elite athlete even by OLB/DE pass-rusher standards who has shown capability to get sacks in bunches. He also has had problems with schemes and playing within the construct of the team. He is only 26 years old.
All in all, getting rid of him seems a lose-lose situation for Cleveland and a win-win for the Raiders. You get a pick that you likely use on a player not as good as the one you are replacing, and if he ’blows up" for the Raiders, you are left regretting it more later.
For the Raiders, they just got a 26 year old starter for a 3rd rounder, a guy with 20 NFL sacks already who has the potential to be fierce in pass rushing situations if given the proper support and scheme.
He can start effectively in the NFL today while he could still get better, and if he doesn’t get any better, well, you just got a starter for a 3rd round pick.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Mar 15, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
And with the Raiders drafting strategy...
I don’t think they COULD have drafted a more productive player in the third round. This is a good trade for them.
Maybe they have taken all out of deep freeze yet?
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the part where FFrog would tell us what a mistake it was to take Curry 4th overall,
when good starting linebackers are so freely available and/or only cost a 3rd-round pick.
It is possible we could have picked better.
But Curry was a safe pick, and still might develop into a great one. I agree that good starting linebackers can be had cheaply. But I also think we got a good player at a good value, and he still has a chance to contribute.
I'm still a big fan of Curry.
He has yet to realize his potential and is already an exciting player to watch.
I think he just hasn't been used correctly.
I hope our defense improves this year, the linebacking corps should definitely improve with Ken Norton’s coaching. I just worry about the schemes though. Our defense was a sieve last year, and I hope Bradley changes some stuff up this year. I know he doesn’t have a lot to work with, that’s why I was hoping that some of the dreck like Kerney and Jennings would have been purged by now.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
The Arizona Cardinals' plan for success:
-Lose all talent on team to retirement and free agency.
-Call it a day.
by Wayward Llama on Mar 15, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Mora?
I don’t think Mora used very many players well last year. So we could vastly improve this year if that actually is true and Carroll figures out how to use them. Other examples would be Tatupu (bulking up), Butler (play him!), Mike Teel (I still don’t know if he could eventually start one day, or if he is complete trash. Should have tried him out near the end of the year), Forsett (although this changed near the end of the year), Craig Terrill (sit him!), The Shock Green Jerseys (wear them!). Tha’ts just my opinion though.
Why does everyone assume it will be a 3rd round pick (or equivalent)?
Just because they tendered him there doesn’t mean that is what has been negotiated.
Because San Diego has agreed to trade Whitehurst to Seattle for something they believe is equivalent a third round pick.
Sorry to nitpick but that is not what it says.
It merely states that since Seattle doesn’t have a third they can’t sign him to an offer sheet directly. Therefore, they have made other arrangements with San Diego in case Whitehurst agrees to come to Seattle.
While I agree that the author’s implecation is that it is a 3rd round equivalent, I just think that it is a leap to assume so. The only reason a third is mentioned is because that was the original round tender but that doesn’t mean that is what San Diego is willing to accept in return. And with what QBs have been traded for so far this offseason, I’d be surprised if it was anything that high.
They have no choice if Whitehurst signs with Seattle
But I’m sure it was something that they found agreeable, even if it may not be a 3rd round pick.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
That is not how it works.
It’s a third-round tender, so technically, Seattle does not have the means to sign Whitehurst. However, the team that tenders has flexibility. They do not have to take a third round pick. Common sense tells us that whatever Seattle offered San Diego must be worth more than or equal to a third round pick, or else San Diego could shut out Seattle and recoup a third round pick from Arizona.
by John Morgan on Mar 14, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm honestly not trying to be a dick, but you didn't say anything that I didn't already know.
But it’s not as if San Diego can choose to accept what Arizona has to offer if Whitehurst signs the offer from Seattle instead of Arizona. That’s what I was saying. The only choice the Chargers would have in this case is to either match Seattle’s offer or agree to the deal that they had in place with Seattle beforehand on Seattle’s compensation.
However, if I’m wrong, feel free to correct me.
And your statement about what Seattle offering something equal or more than a third round pick to San Diego, was what I really meant, but I assumed that was a given, but perhaps I should have elaborated on that when I said that it was something they found agreeable, even if it may not be a third round pick.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 15, 2010 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
The point is he can't sign an offer sheet with Seattle because we don't have a 3rd rounder
The rules do not allow that, so there’s no extra leverage to be had there. He can only sign here if we work out a trade with San Diego, while Arizona does have a 3rd rounder and so can just sign him to an offer sheet. So whatever we offer is going to have to be as good or better.
I think San Diego could have said "no" to Seattle.
Because of the lack of a 3rd rounder. However, the two have made a deal on what will constitute a “third rounder” in this case. I’m hoping it isn’t a promising young player…
I don't think you are being a dick, but it seems like you did not follow the conversation.
Aron is responding to Bilbo’s comment that Seattle likely did not offer something equivalent to a third round pick to San Diego, which is illogical. If Seattle did not offer something equivalent to a third round pick, San Diego could have simply said “no”.
Gotcha.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 15, 2010 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
How big is the difference between Arizona's third and Seattle's 4th?
It’s kind of hard to figure out for sure because compensatory draft picks have not been announced, but if the Cards have a late third and we have an early 4th, maybe the gap can be closed without too great a cost.
by Mind of no mind on Mar 15, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
My guess both Seattle and Arizona offered trades
and not offer sheets.
I doubt either team valued him highly enough to provide a 3rd (especially since Seattle doesn’t have one).
Otherwise, what’s there to decide for whitehurst? If Seattle has no 3rd rounder, what could we have “offered” him?
6/14/40. Sweet.
Patrick Kerney, Craig Terrill, some green gloves.
At least if I was GM
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
The Arizona Cardinals' plan for success:
-Lose all talent on team to retirement and free agency.
-Call it a day.
by Wayward Llama on Mar 15, 2010 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Until Branch tears a ligament
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
From the original report by Wyche:
Seattle currently doesn’t have a third-round selection in the 2010 draft because it traded it to Philadelphia last year in order to move up in the draft and select WR Deon Butler. However, Seattle has discussed other forms of compensation that have met guidelines approved by San Diego.
San Diego made guidelines. Surely those guidelines indicate what to San Diego is equal or better than the third round selection. Seattle has agreed to these guidelines.
by John Morgan on Mar 14, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to belabor the point but from Mike Sando:
Any trade the Chargers made would be contingent on Whitehurst accepting an offer from the acquiring team.
The Chargers tendered Whitehurst to a third-round pick. Arizona has two third-round choices. The Seahawks have none. If Seattle could get Whitehurst for less than a third-rounder, the assumption might be that Arizona could, too.
The third-round tender serves merely as protection for the Chargers should Whitehurst sign an offer sheet outright.
Sure, San Diego may accept less than a third round pick. Typically, a team does not get the full value of the tender.
But we really don’t know what that is. We know that whatever Seattle offered is equivalent or better than what Arizona offered, and the best estimate we have for what Arizona offered is something in the ballpark of a third round pick.
You know what.
I was wrong. I think I was just missing the bigger point and misunderstanding exactly what you were saying.
no worries
Not about right or wrong, it just seems that all arguments people are making are about Whitehurst assume that this cost is a third rounder (or equivalent) when it might, in fact, be less.
I’d be happy swapping 1.14 with their first and picking up another pick (their third), which is actually similar to our third but still allows us to keep all our picks.
From Chargers' beat writer Kevin Acee
of the Union-Tribune:
The restricted free agent spent last week visiting both teams. Whitehurst is expected to decide which offer to accept by Tuesday.
Should the Cardinals be the team Whitehurst chooses, the Chargers would receive one of the Cardinals’ two third-round picks. If Whitehurst decides to go to Seattle, which does not have a third-round pick, the Chargers would likely receive the equivalent of a third-rounder, though a trade could also involve other players on both rosters.
by lemonverbena on Mar 15, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't this prove BOTH teams are attempted a trade?
If the cardinals extended an offer sheet, wouldn’t that supersede any trade offer from the Hawks seeing as Whitehurst is a RFA?
Or does the “owning team” decide which avenue is taken (accepting a trade vs. ‘letting him go’ via an offer sheet signing)?
6/14/40. Sweet.
by Nick Andron on Mar 15, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Whitehurst decides which team he wants to sign with
If it’s Seattle, there already is a trade framework worked out with San Diego, according to sources.
by lemonverbena on Mar 15, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Arizona could still get involved in the bidding.
Any trade with Seattle would require San Diego to first match the contract. Once they’ve done that they could go to Arizona and say “Beat (whatever the Hawks are offering).” Since we already know Arizona is will to part with a third rounder it doesn’t make any sense for San Diego to accept less anything with less value.
they need people though
maybe they would take Cole and Redding.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
If you're in Whitehurst's shoes, do you sign with Seattle or Arizona?
I think I’d go with Arizona. Leinart might be harder to beat out for the starting job than Hasselbeck, but if you win the AZ job, you get to throw the ball to Larry Fitzgerald. That’s a pretty big selling point.
It depends on what is being offered
Perhaps Seattle is offering guaranteed money and the job in 2011 while AZ is only offering the chance to compete but with less guaranteed. Perhaps it is the other way around. Point is, it depends and we won’t know until he makes a choice.
You are missing my point
we don’t know what is being offered. Money, opportunity, hookers and blow, whatever. Your question above assumes all other things are equal while they probably are not.
I disagree with Culter...
If I just sat the first several years of my career, the last person I want to compete with is an incumbent who is young. I’d rather fight it out in a place like Seattle where the vet qb is fading fast and there is no younger competition.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Mar 15, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't decide if I'd like this move or not. But draft speculation will get interesting.
The thing I can’t figure out is if QB is no longer a possibility in the 1st, and we had our pick of all the LTs in the draft, how much better for our scheme specifically, would a LT @ #6 be over Charles Brown at #14? Because if it’s not a significant upgrade, then we’re really going to need to try and trade back, because #5 money for a safety seems crazy to me, but I can’t think of any other player besides Berry that we could take that doesn’t have a good chance of dropping out of the top 10 if we don’t pick him (I have a lot of doubt about McCoy falling to #6).
The other players I like are Derrick Morgan and C.J Spiller. Morgan is a top 6 talent, but doesn’t fit in a 3-4 defense, which means the earliest he’d go (assuming nobody trades up) is #8 to Oakland (which is very unlikely) or #12 to Miami (I have no idea how likely this is). And drafting a RB @ 6 seems just as crazy as drafting a safety.
I wonder if Cleveland is likely to target a QB now. Maybe if Clausen or Bradford is still on the board @6, Buffalo could target our pick to jump ahead of Cleveland.
by Mind of no mind on Mar 14, 2010 4:42 PM PDT reply actions
It makes me wonder, if a move like this would help deter a team from trading above us at the top of the 1st round.
If we are ‘certain’ to take a QB at 6, a team may be more likely to try and leapfrog us to secure one of the two top-rated QBs. If we add confusion to that probability it could provide a strategical edge or deterrant to teams also thinking QB early in the 1st and also a slots 14 and 40.
We would be insuring ourselves in the event neither QB is available top of one, if not allow us to pass on one. We would have a viable #2 QB and someone who could fill in when Hass gets injured or under-performs.
This is a very good point
as a Redskins fan, one thing I have been repeating ad nauseum is that it would be a huge tactical error for the Redskins to let Campbell go before the draft because it would make our intentions obvious, potentially forcing us to trade up to be sure of drafting the QB we want. I think the idea that Whitehurst makes the #6 pick not a QB is ridiculous on its face. Charlie Whitehurst is not going to stop the Seahawks from drafting a franchise QB if he is available. Nor does acquiring Whitehurst suggest that Bradford and Clausen are not franchise QBs (although I think there is truth to that in Clausen’s case).
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Mar 14, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Pointing out
When did Miami switch from their parcells 3-4?
by Seahawks4life on Mar 14, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
My bad,
I wasn’t sure about them so I did a quick google search, I should have looked at “dolphins” not “Miami”. I saw an article talking about Miami’s 4-3 defense but didn’t look closely enough, it was probably talking about the college team.
-
So that makes him even more likely to slide all the way to 14 unless the Giants or Tennesse trade up for him. If we address LT with our #6 (assuming we no longer target a QB if Whitehurst signs), I’m not sure there is any way we could pass him up at 14. As much as I’d love C.J Spiller if he was there, I think we’d have a better chance of finding comparable talent to him later in the draft than we would Morgan.
This will be one hell of a draft if we somehow come out of it with the top LT and top DE.
by Mind of no mind on Mar 15, 2010 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions
If this is a conditional pick, it's great for us.
The kid does nothing, we pay nothing. But I’m sure he won’t cost us more than a 2nd rounder, max, even if he starts all next year. So we risk little and gain potentially a perennial starter.
Also, I love the idea of going into the draft without the NEED to grab a QB at #6. Now my head is swimming with alternatives… especially trading down and snagging that third rounder back.
Help me understand...
how much I should weigh the fact Whitehurst could never unseat Billy Volek for the #2 spot? It just seems truly bizarre to me that Seattle is willing to (potentially, we don’t know) give up a 3rd rounder (or more) for a 28 year old who not only has never been a starter but has also never been good enough to be a backup. I don’t think I’m being unfair in calling Volek an average to slightly below average NFL QB.
Volek is a decent quarterback and San Diego has always been a playoff contender while Whitehurst has been there.
I don’t think it’s a huge deal that he couldn’t beat him out.
More than decent
Top 5 backup easily. I’m sure the Chargers have turned down a lot of offers for him over the last several years.
inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Volek is cemented at backup QB and has won a couple of big games for them
Whitehurst has never been given a real shot at the 2. My understanding (I’ve been to most Chargers home games the last 5+ years) has been that they really like Whitehurst, but he was the project behind the two proven guys.
by lemonverbena on Mar 15, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
There is a bit of money tied up in Volek right?
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
A little, and they had been after him for awhile when they finally were able to swing a trade with the Titans
Volek signed a new deal in ’08 for 3 yr/$9m.
by lemonverbena on Mar 15, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Volek has shown he can win games
I am surprised people have made offers for him.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
should read "haven't made offers for him"
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
You know what I mean
A fourth or a fifth is probably the bottom, both of which in my opinion are well worth risking for the chance at a starting QB.
what is that like
an exhibition game or something?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
Its hard to make an accurate judgement on a guy with no real footage for the past 4 years,
but based on his college highlights, stats, and scouting reports, I think I support this move. Especially if the FO has determined either that Clausen is not worthy of, 6 or will not be there. If Whitehurst has continued to develop over the past 4 years (and I have to think that someone on the Seahawks with a voice has information on this), then this could pan out to be a good move. And if it doesn’t, equivalent of a 3rd rounder is not an excessive price tag for a backup QB. I hope he accepts our offer.
67.4 completion percentage his senior year intrigues me.
scouting report
Its reported that he changed his throwing mechanics between his junior and senior year, though haven’t seen any footage to confirm that. All the negatives seem typical college stuff: bad decision making and staring down the receiver leading to too many INTs. Hopefully 4 years later he’s improved on that.
Also the reported interest in Kolb, Anderson, and now Whitehurst seems to be showing a pattern of the direction the Hawks are looking to go
Now what the actually means, I’m not really sure.
Kolb v Whitehurst
I’ve seen a lot of comments from people that they’d much rather spend a (much higher) pick on Kolb than a mid-rounder of Whitehurst. For any people that feel that way, I am curious as to why?
Honestly, I have no idea if one has a better chance than the other. Aside from two games that John has broken down to show that Kolb’s games weren’t as impressive as the statistics would imply, what really makes these two guys any different? Because if they are a similar roll of the dice, I’d much rather keep the three high picks to use on needed positions other than QB if none of them (including Bradford/Clausen) are a “franchise QB”.
I'm not in the Kolb camp,
but that is primarily because of the reported 2 first rounders it would take to get him. At best I would consider his value more in line with a mid to late first rounder. As far as Kolb vs Whitehurst, Kolb was a higher draft pick than Whitehurst to begin with and his actual NFL playing time, though limited, is more to go off of then Whitehurst’s zero NFL pass attempts. However, I have to believe that both of them are really gaining interest more for in the building / practice field reputation.
I want Kolb.
But I am hesitant enough to go higher than 4th rounder with a player or a conditional pick. But were I as desperate for him as I could be, I wouldn’t go higher than a 2nd. No fucking way do I give up a first rounder for him.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I just dont think a trade for Kolb is realistic.
Wouldn’t make sense for either team. They value him a lot, and we would have to give up way too much for someone as unproven on the field as he is.
I don't think it's realistic either.
But he’d be my preference of the two.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Straight up I would most likely agree with you.
But factoring in the resources that it appears it would take to acquire them, and given only these two options, I choose Whitehurst.
The only reason I'd want Kolb,
is because from what I understand, the Eagles run the WCO and the Chargers don’t. It seems like it would then be an easier and quicker transition for Kolb to come here. But other that that, Kolb was a 2nd round pick, Whitehurst was a 3rd round pick who both sat behind pro bowl caliber QBs. There is no way I’d pay what the Eagles want for Kolb, while Whitehurst seems worth the shot.
by Mind of no mind on Mar 15, 2010 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
The most ridiculous puke on paper that I have ever read:
Steelers QB Roethlisberger could interest Seattle Seahawks
This is the stuff nightmares are made of.
In fact, 4 paragraphs are composed of more than 2 sentences.
and 0 paragraphs are composed of 3 or more.
that's
what we call crack talk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Mar 14, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Not that this would ever happen
But if it did, I’m worried that I wouldn’t be able to stomach the franchise.
I'd take Dennis Dixon
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
But maybe that is Duck bias
He’s filled out and he looked okay in his only start that was against Baltimore who knew he was making his first start and was in his face all game.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
If Anderson didn't suck I would want him too
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
You're a better man than I
It’s like the Big Ben thing. QBs embody all the hatred one has for a team or a franchise/program. I can like plenty of people on the Ducks, just not the QBs. Or that Jeff Maehl guy. What a pussy.
I worry for him getting killed
He’s so skinny…
I graduated from Eastern Oregon so that could be part of it. I cheer for the Beavs in every other game but the Civil War. I watch most of their games unless they are playing at the same time.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I was really pissed that we didn't take Al Afalavavavalalava
He was available and we took some guy from Rutgers who didn’t even make the team. That is why I am really happy Ruskell is gone.
Maehl takes poundings and gets up I loved the pacing afterwords trying to shake it off.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
What do you mean "he was available"?
Not at the same pick we used on Greene. We drafted Teel in round 6, Bears picked Afalava abut ten picks later
by Thomas Beekers on Mar 15, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought he looked okay, but nothing like a starting quarterback
The offense Pittsburgh was running made the Seneca Wallace offense look diverse and complex.
by John Morgan on Mar 15, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd take him in a Whitehurst kind of way - not as a franchise way.
To make your first start against that defense is a hell that most couldn’t endure. He didn’t know if he was starting until game day, I think if were given time to prepare…
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
This much smoke about the Seahawks looking at QB candidates, even if it's speculation, has me thinking that there is a fire nearby or there will be.
I now no longer believe Carroll is that high on Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck’s time as a Seahawk may be a lot more numbered than I had thought.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 14, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I think that any rational person (especially one coming in as a newcomer and not emotionally invested in Hass) would look at tape from the last couple of years and say “Yeah, this guy is about finished.”
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
The Arizona Cardinals' plan for success:
-Lose all talent on team to retirement and free agency.
-Call it a day.
by Wayward Llama on Mar 15, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
My response.
Dumbest idea ever.Leroy Hill an inside linebacker?Hawthorne no experience?Oh yeah and we will give the steelers our entire draft class of 2010 and a first rounder in 2011 for the most despised QB by seahawk fans (who hasn’t won a superbowl without the refs help) and a third rounder.If this happens ill just watch reruns of old seahawk’s games every sunday until Ben retires or gets in another massive accident.
by nickfru1 on Mar 14, 2010 10:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Hill played inside at Clemson.
Not that it lends credence to this obvious bullshit.
by John Morgan on Mar 14, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I knew reading this would be a bad idea.
But I was really desperate for NFL news tonight. My head hurts after reading that. Looks like DKSB is taking him to task via Twitter.
NO.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
by Wayward Llama on Mar 15, 2010 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd boo him all the way to the NFC championship game
I’d boo him during the SB victory parade if I had to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
What's with the Big Ben hate?
Aren’t we jumping the gun on a court case here? Far as I know the guy’s not been convicted of anything, yet all of a sudden he has the reputation of a scumbag. That’s weaksauce.
by Thomas Beekers on Mar 15, 2010 5:33 AM PDT up reply actions
(this apropos of general hate, not Seahawks-specific hate)
Induced by the SuperBowl.
A hatred I can not share no matter how hard I try. I like the Steelers, and Ben’s a fine QB.
by Thomas Beekers on Mar 15, 2010 5:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope all the QB chatter wakes up Hasselbeck.
If it is even possible at this point
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
"I never met a llama I didn't like." - TJ Duckett
This assumes that any of his problems involve his attitude, work ethic, or competitive desire.
by abender20 on Mar 15, 2010 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe his arm was asleep?
6/14/40. Sweet.
by Nick Andron on Mar 15, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he is just shell shocked
After taking the kinds of beatings he had I’d rather dump the ball of quickly or just drop it so more people don’t pile on. I think if Matt could feel like someone is going watch him then he’ll get a lot better and Matt is the best stop gap we can find.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Zorn claimed to be shell shocked too
right until Krieg took over and led the Seahawks to the AFC Championship game. If Hasselbeck is “shell shocked”, we shouldn’t assume he is just going to snap out of it. If anything, it only furthers the idea that he is never going to be a good quarterback again.
by John Morgan on Mar 15, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
But Zorn sucked
Matt has shown at one time to be a really good QB.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think shell shocked QBs generally ever recover.
Even behind a good line, they will feel phantom pressure and react to it.
by Mind of no mind on Mar 15, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
He dumps the ball off because those are the throws he can make.
Hasselbeck was hit less often than several quarterbacks who were very successful last season.
Exactly.
As I said “if it is even possible at this point.”
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
The Arizona Cardinals' plan for success:
-Lose all talent on team to retirement and free agency.
-Call it a day.
by Wayward Llama on Mar 15, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
From what I have seen, Matt's never lacked for competitiveness
He mind has been trying to write checks that his arm, ribs, and the rest of his body can’t cash. I just am not sure he has the physical tools anymore. Although mentally, I must say it seems as if he has been crushed so many times that he sure doesn’t look comfortable in the pocket either, even when the line does give him time.
I'd like Whitehurst
Like John said, it’s a way to improve our QB situation without having to roll the dice on a reach QB at #6. There are a lot of high quality players available at that spot who can do more for the team than a Bradford or a Clausen.
Say we take Okung at 6 and Spiller or Dez Bryant at 14 (or trade for Marshall)… and wow, our offense is instantly improved over last year if Whitehurst is halfway decent. This division is totally up for grabs right now and we can still be competitive.
Check out my Mets blog: http://metsmosh.blogspot.com/
Part of the Shore Sports Report blog network, Fox Sports Radio 1310 New Jersey
Hey John, Whitehurst v Clausen?
Can you give us your thoughts on what we would be getting in one versus the other in terms of talent?
Assuming we’d give up the equivalent of a third rounder (which I still doubt, haha) and use our first three picks for non QBs, how much better off is Seattle with one versus the other?
I'll give a quick and dirty
Whitehurst is bigger, more athletic and has a better arm. Clausen has precocious read, vision and decision making. Whitehurst likely can become no better than an above average quarterback. He just has lost too much essential development time. Clausen has a huge ceiling if he can overcome some of his physical limitations. He won’t be bombs away, but he could become a great distributor that approaches or exceeds a 70% completion percentage. At the same time, I think many are vastly overrating his arm strength. It will be interesting to see if he can make the same kind of reads in the pro game as he did in college. He will survive or thrive on his ability to attack horizontally rather than vertically. And that just might not be what Bates wants to do on offense.
Which is tougher to overcome
Learning to read and distribute the ball when you already have to physical tools to do it, or getting more arm strength to put the ball where you know that you need to put it.
Hass still can read, but his arm strength is to the point where he can’t put the ball where he needs it to go. With Clausen would we buying a guy who is going to peak out low on arm strength and never reach elite status because he can’t put the ball where he needs to?
That I can not say.
I can only estimate his current arm strength. I can’t tell you his potential. Once upon a time, arm strength was not considered a huge concern for Clausen, and so maybe some of his weakness is tied to his turf toe. Broadly speaking, I would much rather have someone that can read a defense but doesn’t have a cannon that the other way around. Even Chad Pennington could succeed post surgery and he had a pea shooter. But yes, at some point, a quarterback has simply lost too much to be very effective. I think Clausen has less he can lose before it’s lights out.
As far as Whitehurst is concerned
I do not know what he knows now, but I do think it’s a bit worrisome to get a quarterback so late in the development process. I can only hope that Carroll and Schneider have reason to be confident that he has developed in San Diego even though he rarely saw live action.
Thats the multi-million dollar question
I don’t think its possible to quantify the development of backup QBs. Some get a chance to show it, some don’t show the public anything, but suddenly are getting traded, or their starters are getting traded.
I’m guessing that there is a lot more talking between different FOs than we know. I can’t imagine why we would even think of him, unless someone is talking him up.
I'm curious about his visits to Seattle and Arizona
It seems to me that when bringing in a guy who hasn’t played in four years to assess if you want to trade for him and pay him millions of dollars, you would put him through some heavy testing. This isn’t the type of free agent you are just looking to impress, I would hope they tested and vetted the shit out of him with lots of film study and reactions to test his development. Granted, breaking down film does not exactly translate to what he can do on the field, but to get offers from both teams he would have to be pretty impressive. Does any one have any insight or information about how a FA visit like his would go? Am I just reaching?
It's a very good question
and I have no idea.
by jacobstevens on Mar 16, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Schneider could be feeling confident from the Rodgers experience.
Rodgers basically sat 3 years in GB (IIRC, he had maybe 1 game?) Whitehurst has sat 4. And the two are about 1 year apart in age. I’m not trying to make a direct comparison between the two – obviously Rodgers had the superior skill set. But hopefully Schneider learned what to look for from the first-hand experience.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
They may be waiting on a franchise QB also
I know the team is getting older and the defense could be great with a few pieces but realistically we are not going to the SB for a few years.
Every coach is in win-now mode because of their is no job security. If Carroll wanted to win the NFC West, he would have gone for McNabb.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
He's been good enough to have a roster spot though
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Ouch - good point.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
But wasn't Rodger second string for those 3 years?
I think a second string QB is going to get a lot more reps from week to week, than a third string QB. Also I’d feel more comfortable if Whitehurst was coming from a team that ran a similar offense to what we want to run, Rodgers got 3 years backing up the exact same offense he was going to run.
by Mind of no mind on Mar 15, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the exact same concern that I have.
Acquiring Whitehurst screams, just SCREAMS, “gamble.”
If they’re banking on him being or becoming an eventual starter, I’ll be even more concerned.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Mar 15, 2010 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Really I think the Holmgren interest in Seneca
just prompted us to upgrade the backup position. Being bullish on finding upside, and lesser development requirements, than the ancient free agent pickup, but the roster would be going from Hasselbeck-Seneca-Teel to Hasselbeck-Whitehurst-Teel. I wouldn’t make too much of it just yet.
Well whoever our next QB is
He’ll be glad to be throwing to the recently signed..Ruvell Martin. YAY!
the savior of our franchise or a D.B. for another team?
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Wide receiver signed to a 1 year deal.
6’4 215.
“In three seasons in Green Bay, Martin appeared in 41 games, including 9 starts, catching 52 passes for 749 yards and 6 touchdowns.
The Packers waived Martin before the 2009 regular season, and he was signed by the St. Louis Rams in Week 2. Martin caught 6 passes for 99 yards in eight games for the Rams, and recovered one fumble on special teams. "
Didn't he break some college record of Jerry Rice's?
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Only thing I could find
was David Ball Breaking his TD record.
Sorry I was having a Keith Olbermann attack
pulling rambling stats and knowledge no one else has…
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Am I the only person
who’s respect for Ben Affleck was pulled far, far out of the gutter when he hosted an above average SNL a while back and did a devastating Olbermann?
by jacobstevens on Mar 16, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Look for a trade down on draft day
Probability for QB drafted at 6 dropped significantly (went from likely to opportunistic). Means 6th pick will be used to fill needs elsewhere as many have identified above.
I think 14th gets traded down for picks in 2nd and 3rd. NE has 3 2nd round picks, TB has 2, and KC has 2. Philly has 2 3rd rounders. Cleveland has 3. Draft is deep, look for the Hawks to make additional moves to “get young” quickly in the 2-4th rounds.
Thoughts?
Shanghai Kelly's on Polk St. in San Francisco is the worst bar on the face of the earth (at least on Sunday mornings).
For 6 or 14?
Are 3 2nd round picks worth more than a top 10? This is a deep draft in several positions but we need a few starting caliber players.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
Just curious... but which ones do you think we need?
I’m of the opinion that we’re not really that far off. The key problem with the Seahawks is that the positions they do lack in are the really big ones: QB, LT, maybe DT and DE.
I’m of the opinion – right now – that getting three really good guys with our 6, 14 and 40 is better than diluting those picks down just to get more picks.
That said, I’m not against trading down from #6 to #9 or 10 if that means still getting an equivalent-level talent and maybe picking up a 3rd somehow.
That was what I was asking
I think we need immediate upgrades at OT, QB, DT, and DE. I think we also need to upgrade our CB’s besides Trufant.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd agree with all of those.
T – if we do draft an LT, Lock can move back to RT.
QB – duh. Though I’d be OK with running with Whitehurst/Teel for a year and taking another shot next year.
DT – the biggest piece of the defensive puzzle, in my opinion. Two dominant DT’s = (almost) a great defense.
DE – only if we don’t re-sign Tapp, which seems stupid to me. The acquisition of a great DT will mitigate this need hugely.
CB – Yes. A bigger CB opposite Trufant, and as John has said, move Wilson to nickel where his pick-6 ability comes to the fore.
WR – I’d also argue that WR is a bit of a need. Butler doesn’t seem ready to step in, Branch seems to be on his way out. Housh is aging. The time to grab a starter-quality WR is now, especially considering the time it takes WR’s to develop. Do we make a move on Dez Bryant if he’s available?
Options
Assuming Whitehurst deal eliminates the probability of drafting a QB in the 1st then likely outcomes if they keep both 6 & 14: OT/DT addressed with those picks.
Based on how the top 10 shake out, could see seattle trade down at 14 to the 2nd and 3rd to get a Teel upgrade at QB, CB, WR depth, RB depth.
Don’t see it as particularly complicated – the lynchpin being the amount line (both O & D) upgrading Seattle wants to do in the 1st.
Shanghai Kelly's on Polk St. in San Francisco is the worst bar on the face of the earth (at least on Sunday mornings).
If Whitehurst works out
imagine getting McCoy and Charles Brown…The tackle from Indiana looks good and won’t be in the first crop taken.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be okay to me
finding a way to get 3 first round picks would be cool.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 15, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know about tackle at #6, since there's so many available.
But it certainly opens the door for DE or DB. I can definitely see us taking a look at Haden, as a Trufant/Haden/Wilson triumvirate at corner would be pretty special.
I still like the idea of a DT. McCoy would be really, really nice to have opposite Mebane.
I'm not a big fan of Haden.
I’d rather have Kris Wilson later in the draft and the position appears deep even after those two.
if Seattle takes CB at 6 I will poop myself
in fear.
IMO Pass defense is better fixed with improved line play. Improving the pass rush to average, coupled with an average secondary should compete just fine in the west.
Offense is really what we are talking about upgrading the 1st. Take a big name OT in 1st (either pick) and then fill in the balance of RB/WR depth/QB depth and line depth with added picks in the 2nd and 3rd makes more sense and fits the ZBS.
Shanghai Kelly's on Polk St. in San Francisco is the worst bar on the face of the earth (at least on Sunday mornings).
I meant that we could pick CB somewhere
either at 14 (if Haden falls, which he could considering his combine performance, as Jenkins did last year) or if we deal down from #6.
Though I am seeing 4 or 5 CB's projected as early 2nd rounders
And since we don’t need elite talent at CB (and are already paying Trufant a King’s ransom) that would make more sense.
If the DTs and QBs are gone at 6
I’d prefer we try like crazy to move back and pick up a few more picks. A high quality LT can be picked up at 10-13, for cheaper. And we get a few more picks out of it that way.
Now with more lemon bars!
I am kind with you
I am starting to think the 6th pick might be better trade bait than the 14th. But it depends what is available and assumes the Whitehurst moves telegraphs the fact that QB is no longer a 1st round need.
Shanghai Kelly's on Polk St. in San Francisco is the worst bar on the face of the earth (at least on Sunday mornings).
Agreed.
I don’t even need a few more picks. One high 3rd rounder would be enough for me to move from 6 to, say, 9 or 10. Guaranteed there will be someone who will drop to us there… Bryant, Haden, Morgan, maybe one of the better OT’s even, allowing us to play with the #14 pick too.
If the Rams somehow pass on Bradford,
I hope the team would seriously consider a trade-up to get him.
Apparently the Cardinals have the edge on him
http://twitter.com/michaelombardi/status/10539581269
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
The Arizona Cardinals' plan for success:
-Lose all talent on team to retirement and free agency.
-Call it a day.
I have a hard time believing Lombardi...
Despite his awesome last name. He says that Arizona has the lead right now, but that could change through the evenings. That’s like saying, “there’s a pretty good chance of rain, but it also might not rain.” It’s really saying nothing.
Exactly.
And after putting Cincinnati in the Marshall sweepstakes, possibly a lie, he then went and did the same with the Jets.
Although the Jets are clearly putting their chips in on this year. And receiver (and a seasoned QB) probably is about their biggest area for improvement.
by jacobstevens on Mar 15, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems like we should have heard by now
Whitehurst’s decision. Wasn’t it supposed to be a 48-hour timeline from Sunday morning or even Saturday afternoon?
When you have hair like that
you can take your time.
by jacobstevens on Mar 16, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
fuck, reply fail.
That was to rossco17
6/14/40. Sweet.
by Nick Andron on Mar 16, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm having a hard time deciding if I like it or not
I just don’t know enough about him. Either way, I fully expect him to choose the Cardinals what with their recent success, WRs,and proximity to SD. Though i have no idea what he’s been offered by both teams, so it’s really just a gut feeling more than anything.
They maybe in talks to try to match
in a capped year what is a couple of million or maybe they are having a little bidding war to see what they can get out of him.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 16, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
One of the other sites threw out a far fetched theory
What if we are getting Whitehurst and SDs 1st and 3rd in exchange for #14. We then use the late 1st round to get Marshall. The net trade for us would be our #14 for Whitehurst, Marshall and a 3rd. Not bad if it could be worked out.
I wouldn't cry about that
Then, if McCoy isn’t there at #6, we trade back to 10-13 to pick up a good LT, and pick up another 3rd (more?) in the process. and I’m still excited about Houston at #40 – i’m a big fan.
Whitehurst, Marshall, Davis/Bulaga/Williams, and Houston + two 3rd rounders in exchange for our first three picks. yes please.
I could live with that
I don’t know how willing SD is to give up picks right now they have a lot of holes to fill
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
by Generzal Zod on Mar 16, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Same thing was suggested in this thread a few days ago
it makes sense, but would still rather trade Denver #40 or a pick next year!
That would be
a freaking sweet scheme.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Well he lives in Atlanta
so proximity is pretty nonexistent in either case.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I'm not so sure about him picking the Cards
Their recent success was mostly tied to 1. Kurt Warner, 2. an improved defense.
1. Warner and Boldin are gone. The net effect will DEFINITELY be negative, unless Whitehurst somehow kicks ass.
2. Their defense took some hits, losing both Dansby and Rolle.
Seattle, as a city, and as an organization (VMAC, Pete Carroll, etc) would strike me as more desirable.
6/14/40. Sweet.
Recent success, even with Warner leaving, is still >>>> Seattle's recent results
1) Fitz and Breaston still make up a much better WR core than Seattle’s
2) Rhodes is an adequate replacement for Rolle, and Dansby filled a LB position that is easy to find talent for.
I’d live in Seattle 100 times out of a 100 when compared to any city in AZ, but not everyone agrees with me on that. No doubt that AZ struggles with their QB situation next year, but I still think of theirs as a desirable one for a starting QB
In general what does is it say about the Cards if the SBN site is dedicated to news about other teams?
Yikes – I suppose they would be the one team without a Super Bowl bandwagon.
Give me an offensive line or give me death!
Not sure what you mean
Their SBN site is dedicated to the Cards, if keeping more of an eye on the rest of the league than we do.
by Thomas Beekers on Mar 16, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Cardinals sign Anderson
..according to PFT and others. So it’s Charlie time soon, probably…
The hair!
I read the same thing. The chances that we sign Whitehurst probably just increased. I’m still not sure how I feel about this.
If it's for a fourth rounder...
like the one we just got from Philly, and maybe a second-stringer on our current roster, I’m good with it.

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