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Around SBN: Now They've Screwed Spurs, UEFA Willing To Review Rule

The First Big Win for Seattle is the Deal They Didn't Do

It's hard to step away. It's hard to look across the table and see something you want so, so much and step away, but Seattle did, and I commend them for it. Miami has traded its second round pick in 2010 and second round pick in 2011 for Brandon Marshall. Miami is consolidating a core around its young talent, left tackle, quarterback, cornerback, and have traded for Marshall to help push a near-contender over the top towards contention. Great. Great for Miami. I cannot fault the move from their perspective, though the price is very steep. For Seattle, this would have been a mistake.

Two second round picks is not as valuable as a single first. It is, rather, much more valuable. The draft is fluid. In a good enough draft, the talent found at the end of the first and throughout much of the second is nearly identical. In fact, even in a typical draft, two common second round picks, say the 43rd the Dolphins have already given and a 52nd in 2011, should they improve significantly next year, is worth 49 points. 49 points is equivalent to the seventh overall pick. And that, mind you, does not account for the difference in salary. Two second round picks cost less than a seventh overall pick, cost much less than Brandon Marshall. Add in age and liability - character, injury, suspension - and Miami has made a major investment with major downside.

Seattle needs those valuable middle round picks, a 60 this year, something lower next, to push this team, not over the top, but out of its grave. It needs youth. Marshall is young for sure, but 26 is still 26, and 26 is a lot older than 21 or 22. It needs cheap depth. It needs what Miami needed years ago but has since developed: a quarterback, a left tackle, a corner, a core.

This is great news for Seahawks fans. We didn't get the pipe dream deal many of us longed for, but we also avoided mortgaging youth and potential for a supposed sure thing. Seattle can now take the resources they would have otherwise invested in Marshall and draft two cheaper players, with two pairs of knees, two affordable contracts, and that can fill two positions of need.

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Bravo.

I needed a positive Morgan spin (actually just the truth) to overcome a sense of relief yet strongly overshadowed by disappointment. The non-move does make more sense.

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black*, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling**, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Apr 14, 2010 2:04 PM PDT reply actions  

But, can we still get a Ferrari through the draft?

(I’m looking at you: C.J. Spiller)

Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black*, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling**, RB Jonathan Dwyer

by Misfit74 on Apr 14, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good move by Miami and good non-move by Seattle

And let’s not forget Denver who pick up two 2nd rounders to rebuild with by shipping a guy who didn’t want to play for them anymore after Pittsburgh only managed a measly 5th for their guy. Win all around. Oh, and thanks again for the 14th pick Denver. How’s you’re nickelback working out?

by Kevaru on Apr 14, 2010 2:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Really, why?

The big American brand beers are horrible, the Light ones triply so.

by Thomas Beekers on Apr 14, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't mean to offend

the defenders of the Silver Bullet amongst present company. But really if you are going to drink a macrobrew you should be getting smeared by the Pabst.

by Kevaru on Apr 14, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Coors Light is the Dane Cook of beers - love by millions and no one has any fucking idea why.

oh and fuck Nickelback and their singer who plagerises his lyrics from notes middle school girls write.

At least we aren't the Raiders?

by Generzal Zod on Apr 14, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Once I saw it was two 2nds, I was happy for several reasons.

I was happy we didn’t overbid for something we want. Although it looks like that is what we did for Whitehurst, we didn’t lose a pick until the 3rd we lose next season, and losing a pick right now seems to be against their plan.

However, I had forgotten where to find this draft chart so I couldn’t put into actual value how much the Dolphins had overpaid. I’m glad we have some good information about our front office to throw into the equation.

by cashless on Apr 14, 2010 2:20 PM PDT reply actions  

We didn't overpay.

As your very well-spoken writer stated, this move was calculated and affordable due to the young and talented core we have already worked hard to build. Marshall is still ridiculously young, and I’m convinced that Marshall will outplay the “value” of the picks we’ve conceded.

On a side note, our writer consolidated and analyzed some information on Bill Parcells’ draft history, and we have come to the conclusion that despite popular belief, the Tuna is actually not a good second-round-drafter. He has tons of success in the first, and an above-average rate in the middle rounds, I’m sure. In the second, however, below average for the most part.

If history tells us anything, we actually got far better intrinsic value than anyone could imagine.

2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion

1a. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee/1b. Earl Thomas, S, Texas
1c. C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson/1d. Dan Williams, NT, Tennessee
1e. Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas/1f. Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan

by Dave.Phuller on Apr 14, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus Miami had no money invested at WR

There was a smattering of low contracts across the depth chart at the position, with Ted Ginn’s comparatively modest salary being the highest (Deion Branch will earn about the same money as all Dolphin WRs put together). Parcells could easily afford to throw out this kind of money to a proven receiver without crippling his team. Finally, Brandon Marshall > Dez Bryant.

by Kevaru on Apr 14, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Our corps needed an overhaul, and though two 2nd round picks appears to be steep, it’s really a fair price considering he’s proven and in his prime.

If you draft Dez Bryant, who arguably has the greatest chance of reaching Marshall’s status in this draft, you draft him in the top 15 (if not top 10, or just outside). You then watch as he takes (at least) three years to “reach his potential.” By then, he’s anywhere between 23 and 25 years old, at least.

Brandon is 26, is established and proven, and has posted three straight 100-1,000 seasons while being in the league for four years.

So, you’re giving up, by whoever’s calculation it was that these two picks equate to a single seventh overall pick, a seventh overall pick for a receiver that you KNOW will give you that kind of production before he even reaches his “prime.”

Who wouldn’t do that?

2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion

1a. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee/1b. Earl Thomas, S, Texas
1c. C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson/1d. Dan Williams, NT, Tennessee
1e. Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas/1f. Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan

by Dave.Phuller on Apr 14, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

Well thanks for the “luck.” If we have that much luck, I’m sure we’ll become best buds with the Bills.

2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion

1a. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee/1b. Earl Thomas, S, Texas
1c. C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson/1d. Dan Williams, NT, Tennessee
1e. Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas/1f. Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan

by Dave.Phuller on Apr 14, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

May you kick Tom Brady in the teeth and take the AFC East!

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Apr 14, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here here!

2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion

1a. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee/1b. Earl Thomas, S, Texas
1c. C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson/1d. Dan Williams, NT, Tennessee
1e. Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas/1f. Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan

by Dave.Phuller on Apr 14, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course, if Brady lost any teeth they would make a rule

that it is illegal for a QB to end up on the ground because of your hit.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Apr 15, 2010 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

I certainly didn't say that the Dolphins overpaid.

If we were to outbid you, it may have resulted in overpayment as some of our deals have looked this offseason. And I am quite happy that that was not the result.

by cashless on Apr 14, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ah.

I guess it depends on the situation of a given team. For our situation, especially the way Cromartie and Revis now roam freely, this was solid value.

2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion

1a. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee/1b. Earl Thomas, S, Texas
1c. C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson/1d. Dan Williams, NT, Tennessee
1e. Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas/1f. Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan

by Dave.Phuller on Apr 14, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

It also falls into the plan

We didn’t go after the big name free agent at the expense of draft picks.

by stufr on Apr 14, 2010 2:22 PM PDT reply actions  

They must have known they weren't going to get Marshall...they had a backup plan with both of the Williamss

Ricky Williams came back and has had a respectable career. Hopefully at least one of Mike or Reggie can put it together. I think Reggie has the upper hand over Mike because in Reggie’s last year he had a decent year.

Real glad we didn’t give up 2 2nd rounders for Marshall, on top of a huge contract extension with what? $24M guaranteed?

It's a Casio on a plastic beach

by Roy Weaver Stuckey on Apr 14, 2010 2:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Why not both Williams?

Could Mike not bulk up and play something akin to TE or H-back? I remember him simply being too slow to play WR.

by djafrot on Apr 14, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

After just reading the trade headline...

I was scared Miami may have only given up a 3rd and/or 4th. But two 2nds? No way I would have wanted us to do that. Add in the contract and the possible downside, and it’s a no brainer.

by skwid206 on Apr 14, 2010 2:27 PM PDT reply actions  

Jesus, a seventh overall pick in equivalency, PLUS 24 million guaranteed

That’s too much. As much as I loved the idea of Marshall in a Seahawks’ uni, scalping Wallace’s #15 and loping down the field… that’s too much.

by djafrot on Apr 14, 2010 2:30 PM PDT reply actions  

Agree 100%

This is a big relief.

Seahawks-4-Life

by TheLaird on Apr 14, 2010 2:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Could not agree more

For once our front office wanted something, but felt the deal was too much to go forward. Finally.

by m_b on Apr 14, 2010 3:05 PM PDT reply actions  

I can't keep out of my head the feeling the Hawks had the same offer on the table

But Denver accepted Miami’s because their 2nd round pick (this year) is better.

Am I the only one?

6/14/60. Sweet.

by Nick Andron on Apr 14, 2010 3:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Eh, it doesn't fit their profile so far.

Seattle was interested for sure, but I think they were interested because they knew Marshall had to go, and that maybe meant they could get a deal.

by John Morgan on Apr 14, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm done speculating what the Seahawks will or won't do

I’m going to sit back and wee what Carroll and company do and hope they know what they’re doing.

by Rich2010 on Apr 14, 2010 4:21 PM PDT reply actions  

I've been enjoying the minicamp blogs

I think Carroll’s going to be a good coach. Not sold yet on Q/PM, but I think he’ll be a good coach. Much better then Mora.

by B.B.Finnegan on Apr 14, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

ok

I’ve tried to figure it out but can’t so I’ll just ask the question. What does Q/PM stand for?

by m_b on Apr 14, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm with you.

I would have preferred a non-conventional, young, analytical, offensive mastermind…but oh well.

by DJ C-Raig on Apr 14, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Insert "evil, professed" before the word "mastermind"

and you’ve got McDaniels.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Apr 14, 2010 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

He can make a game plan

Even last year USC was just outphysicalled in the games they lost.

At least we aren't the Raiders?

by Generzal Zod on Apr 14, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

worth a 7th overall pick? wow

The Broncos got a steal for a player they weren’t going to keep beyond next year anyway.

by B.B.Finnegan on Apr 14, 2010 4:38 PM PDT reply actions  

Now more than ever...

Seattle needs and must start Whitehurst. I have been banging this drum for awhile now but by not getting Marshall its become even clearer. Seattle isn’t going to win many games this season and the trading of our talent for draft picks, the trade for Whitehurst and the failure to match the Broncos demands for Marshall suggests the Q/PM know this as well. This is a rebuild and starting a 34 year old QB is not consistent with a rebuild when you have a 27 year old with no game experience (who you paid handsomely for) on the bench. Unless you legitimately think Seattle can make a deep playoff run this year what is the benefit of starting Hasselbeck? If Hasselbeck starts we risk entering the 2011 draft with a 28 year old who still hasn’t played much (or at all) and wonder if we should spend big and draft a QB. No thanks. Whitehurst from week 1.

by jjhsix on Apr 14, 2010 6:19 PM PDT reply actions  

So why from week 1?

The likelihood of Hasselbeck getting injured appears very high. I love the guy, but I’m betting that by week 8 Charlie will be in there.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Apr 14, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

two reasons:

One: we should deal Hass as soon as we can, in my opinion.

Two: we need as much time watching Charlie in action as we can.

by djafrot on Apr 14, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Somehow I don't think Hass will have much more value around the league than he will to us

As far as seeing Charlie in action, I agree we need to know how good he is but if Hass is the better player then they oughta play him. If the end of the season nears and Hass is playing well, then knowing Charlie becomes less of a priority cuz Hass has proved he can still produce. If Hass isn’t performing well, then the season is probably lost and there’s nothing to keep them from starting Charlie.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Apr 14, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually disagree...

Even if Hasselbeck has the better training camp (which he probably should given his experience and comfort level with the team), I struggle to see the benefit in Whitehurst not starting? Even if Hasselbeck produces it doesn’t disguise the fact that he would be almost 36 by the start of the 2011 season. This is also the last year of his contract so do you pay a 36 year old QB? I struggle to see a single benefit to Whitehurst not starting UNLESS you honestly feel this Seattle team has the potential for a deep playoff run. I would rather go 6-10 and know what we have at QB with Whitehurst before next years draft then go 8-8 or 9-7 and lose in the first round of the playoffs.

by jjhsix on Apr 15, 2010 5:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's always a shot at the playoffs in the NFC-West.

No coach believes his team is incapable of winning a first-round playoff game just because they got in at 8-8 or 9-7.
Plus what’s the point in having competition at every position like Carroll wants if you don’t play the better competitor? It is in the best interest of every NFL team to field their best players until the playoffs are statistically impossible. If only to sell tickets better.
Whatever MIGHT be better in the long run, teams have to play for the season at hand, too.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Apr 15, 2010 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

They're foolishly optimistic

Seriously, do you think a 9-7 team, from the NFC West, led by a quarterback in his late 30’s has any chance of getting to the Superbowl?

by Jason_D on Apr 15, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think so, no.

But its head coach would convince himself they could.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Apr 15, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trade value upside?

With Hasselbeck’s recent history, I see us getting a 4th round pick at best. If we play him and he gets injured/plays badly, we risk losing that, but there is a chance he plays well. At that point, a needy contender (early-season injury?) might well offer a 2nd-rounder.

Just speculating.

by Jason_D on Apr 15, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

That seems possible to me.

A 3rd seems more likely – I do like the idea of increasing Hasselbeck’s stock by some outside chance.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Apr 15, 2010 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I really doubt we'd get a second rounder for Matt.

MAYBE a third, but I doubt even that. Either way, the benefit we get from showing a healthy Matt is in my opinion not as significant as that gained from seeing as much as we can of Charlie.

by djafrot on Apr 15, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is indeed a grave conundrum.

It’s not like we have a lot of time to see Charlie develop because usually at this age a QB is DONE developing! It’s only a short while before Charlie could start declining and we DO need to figure out what his “ceiling” is…I’m personally just not sure if you exchange that for wins.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Apr 15, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Winning the NFC West is pretty meaningless

I think it would also depend on how long it takes Gibbs to get the o-line in shape.

6 - Williams/Bulaga, 14 - Spiller, 60 - Houston make me something...something

by Generzal Zod on Apr 15, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't discount the experience of making it to the playoffs.

It plays a factor in individual development and team development.

by cashless on Apr 15, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

True that

6 - Williams/Bulaga, 14 - Spiller, 60 - Houston make me something...something

by Generzal Zod on Apr 15, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely.

And even an 8-8 season would do wonders around here.

by djafrot on Apr 15, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yay! We did something right!

It’s a short trip to the Super Bowl now.

At least we aren't the Raiders?

by Generzal Zod on Apr 14, 2010 7:27 PM PDT reply actions  

John Schneider agrees with you

TNT quote regarding losing out on Brandon Marshall

It’s one of those things where I truly believe that some of the best deals you make are some of the ones you don’t make.

by bdf128 on Apr 15, 2010 4:43 PM PDT reply actions  

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