Golden Tate and the Jimmy Clausen Conundrum
by John Morgan on Apr 27, 2010 2:40 PM PDT
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PrintSome insist Golden Tate made Jimmy Clausen look good. Others argue the opposite. I'd contend that garbage time made their stats look good. Clausen rarely excited. A porous offensive line did not flatter his pop-gun arm. If 2009 reflected his true ability, Clausen would be a marginal prospect like Mike Kafka. To be excited about Clausen's future, one has to assume Clausen can combine his pre-injury tools with his post-injury decision making. Tate was the perfect receiver for post-injury Clausen. He could turn a good read and good timing into a homerun. Well, almost perfect. We all have our bad tape.
We revisit Wanny and the Panthers. They'll bore you to tears, but they were pro-style and talented. What can I say? I'll take this bullet for the team.
1. 1st and 10 at ND 9 Armando Allen Jr rush for 6 yards to the NDame 15.
Tate is alone on the left. Dame has trips on the right. Tate identifies coverage and then releases into a route. Decent take off. Sells it well. Run.
2. 2nd and 4 at ND 15 Golden Tate rush for 5 yards to the NDame 20 for a 1ST down.
Same formation, but Tate is now rightmost member of the trips bunch. Clausen fakes hand off and then hands to Tate on an end around. He displays good footwork to turn a sharp angle around left end and towards the left sideline. Linebacker Max Gruder snags his ankle but Tate attempts to pull free. He's wrapped and dragged down before he can be injured. I hate watching a ball carrier attempt to pull free in traffic.
3. 1st and 10 at ND 20 Jimmy Clausen pass complete to Golden Tate for 22 yards to the NDame 42 for a 1ST down.
Two wide a side, tight. Tate is outside left, just off left tackle. He runs a corner route into double coverage. The route is loose and meandering but effective. Tate turns early, and runs into the left flat, head on a swivel. Clausen lobs it high and the two turn a good read and good timing into a long reception. He high points the pass then is undercut for the tackle.
4. 1st and 10 at ND 42 Armando Allen Jr rush for 6 yards to the NDame 48.
(Out)
5. 2nd and 4 at ND 48 Jimmy Clausen pass incomplete.
Good release, screen attempt. DNF.
(Timeout)
6. 3rd and 4 at ND 48 Armando Allen Jr rush for 8 yards to the Pitt 44 for a 1ST down.
(Out)
7. 1st and 10 at PITT 44 Armando Allen Jr rush for 2 yards to the Pitt 42.
Good release; searches for block.
8. 2nd and 8 at PITT 42 Jimmy Clausen sacked by Jabaal Sheard for a loss of 14 yards to the NDame 44.
Sheard becomes the latest end to victimize Sam Young. This play never gets started. It's an interesting series for Tate. He's split wide right. He identifies off coverage. Snap. Tate runs a real lazy looking quick curl. Clausen sees him and sees his back releasing towards the right flat, but Sheard is tearing through Young and any pass to his right has a good shot of being tipped. The weakside linebacker has curled under an idle Tate and the two are spectators for Clausen's demise. He double clutches and attempts to set up an outlet underneath. Replay shows Clausen is sacked before he can release.
9. 3rd and 22 at ND 44 Armando Allen Jr rush for 8 yards to the Pitt 48.
Tate is wide left: Good release; looks for block; ND runs a draw right.
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I just watched 4 minutes of this game, YouTube.
All field-level. Nothing stood out except the reaffirmation that QBs don’t look very capable when they get sacked.
So Sheard was 97, the other end, but the movement and stature of 91 caught my eye, though his play wasn’t impressive. Greg Romeus. Apparently one of the top DE prospects for 2011, BBall player new to football. Great frame and arms. Probably the next all-potential JPP kind of prospect, or if he does anything at all, the next Jevon Kearse prospect, either way very possibly out of our range (even considering that we won’t be good). But with DE the biggest hole outside of QB, now, for next year, I found a guy to keep an eye on.
So I bring all that up to say
in the midst of all the other tape watching you’re doing, if you happen to get an impression of Greg Romeus, I’d be interested to hear it. Not worth an article, I’m sure.
by jacobstevens on Apr 27, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
He's good.
The Pitt line tore through Notre Dame. I’m not going to venture much else without a lot more and a lot more concerted viewing.
I’m not sure why everyone assumes end is a need.
But you admit it's far from clear that we're flush at end I hope
Do you think we can marshal a league-average pass rush with the ends we have on the roster now?
inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Unless I am mis-reading the situation, and it's possible because I don't read much mainstream coverage of the Seahawks
Carroll is banking on Curry flourishing at the elephant position. I’m not sure he will, but depth is not the problem. Seattle is three deep at DE and five deep at SDE.
Despite the crowd, an upgrade is nearly necessary, in my view.
A lot of undersized guys. Maybe something sticks. Unless something does, though, I say need.
by jacobstevens on Apr 27, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
The undersized guys are supposed to be undersized, they're stand up ends.
LoJack, Wilson and Henderson are far from small.
They're supposed to be able to rush the passer from he 9-technique.
They’re not supposed to be undersized as a prerequisite. Though that might very well be the reason why we accumulated them. But undersized =/= pass rush proficient, of course. Hence, why I still contend it’s a need.
I didn’t mean to suggest all ends on the roster were undersized.
by jacobstevens on Apr 28, 2010 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Good point.
I thought Willie McGinest was supposed to be the prototypical stand up end, and he was 6-5 270lbs. By comparison Reed is 6’2 245lbs, Clemons is 6’2 240 lbs and Curry is 6’2 254 lbs. It’s not to say that they can’t still get the job done, but they don’t seem to be ideal fits.
by Mind of no mind on Apr 28, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I think DE is a need.
I think you’re countering that, by telling me the undersized guys we have, should play stand-up end because they are undersized.
Which to me, is akin to saying, man is made for the Sabbath.
I would think the best approach would be to get the best pass rusher you can get. And if he happens to be undersized, consider schematic adjutments to maximize his abilities, such as putting him in a 2-point stance.
Rather than getting undersized pass rushers, to fit the role of stand-up end, which you implement because it’s more beneficial for undersized guys. If that’s what you’re getting at, I just think it’s illogical. If you’re disagreeing that DE is a need, then I respect your opinion, but I won’t be convinced that it’s not simply because some of the guys we currently have are undersized by design.
by jacobstevens on Apr 28, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Foley, Clemens and Reed are pass rush specialists who have been stood up to counter their biggest weakness, size.
I understand looking to upgrade over them, although as a group they look ok, but their size really shouldn’t factor into wanting to upgrade.
Curry plus a bunch of bodies?
Reminds me of a great line my father, a struggling writer, once fired off after a novice friend had him read 700 pages of prose for review. Dad was polite to his friend but later told me what he wanted to say, which was: “I have good news and bad news. The good news is, you have six novels here. The bad news is none of them is worth a shit.”
inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Last I heard Curry was going back to his college possition playing off the Tight End
Clemons was going to play the Elephant role, with Nick Reed and possibly Dexter Davis as the backups.
by B.B.Finnegan on Apr 27, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, while I've heard it here that Curry is going to play elephant, I haven't heard Carroll say it.
But I do keep hearing Carroll say Clemons is over there. I’m sure the Curry stuff came from somewhere reputable too, but I’m starting to think they’re not sure what to do with Curry yet.
Let him loose to make plays
like the Steelers do with PolamamaluPamalolu Troy.
I wish Cops was on...
by Generzal Zod on Apr 27, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
He played his college position in the first minicamp
though Hill wasn’t there so he may have just been a placeholder. I’d like to see Curry get a shot at being a pass rusher… to much talent to be covering TE’s
Need - not so much
but we could use a serious overhaul and upgrade next year.
I wish Cops was on...
by Generzal Zod on Apr 27, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
right.
I look forward to your dissertation on this modified 4/3 Elephant thing.
Can we name it "faux/three", please?
That would make me happy!
by John Edwards on Apr 27, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
made me laugh enough
to finally make my first post.
already changing it on Madden
I wish Cops was on...
by Generzal Zod on Apr 28, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
That should go a long way
to dispelling our supposedly soft national image.
inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Because we don't think the 'Hawks have enough good players at the position
Numbers, sure, but quantity without quality isn’t really a solution.
by The Ancient Mariner on Apr 27, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
It's the only solution when quality isn't available.
Good, solid players come from the ranks of the undrafted. If you have to gamble, you should do what you can to help the odds along.
by BurtonOerney on Apr 27, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I really think we were looking to fill DE high in the draft
but got a better option at safety and LT. We should still be looking for a free agent.
by BurtonOerney on Apr 28, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
If we assume this statement to be true
Tate was the perfect receiver for post-injury Clausen.
Could we also assume a statement such as “Tate is the perfect receiver for a broken down Matt Hasselbeck” to be true as well?
Depends on how we used him.
Hasselbeck already looks a little better than last year’s struggles, post-Willis hit. Hopefully that lasts at least 2 games.
by jacobstevens on Apr 27, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
He looked good at the very beginning last year.
I don’t think there’s any reason he can’t be good this year. Hasselbeck seems to almost want to play hurt. I imagine he spends off season evenings raking his bald head with razor wire. Self-flagellation was the marijuana of the 14th century. With the league’s strict drug testing policy, a guy’s gotta find creative ways to get high.
by BurtonOerney on Apr 27, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Close, I heard he's into P90X. Apparently he cannot talk about it due to endorsing other products,
by Trojan Knight on Apr 27, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I do the ab ripper from that, but I've never tried the others.
I hear good things though.
Thanks Doug Gottleib now I have to hear plugs for it on the web too
Seriously this isn’t the Jim Rome show.
I wish Cops was on...
by Generzal Zod on Apr 28, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions
God. Ab Ripper X is just horrific.
I’ve done it a few times and man … that shit hurts. Good stuff, though, for sure.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - Morgan
Once you get the muscles in your legs that attach to your hip flexors, it's not all that bad.
Do some leg raises, flutter kicks, stuff like that. People usually do just crunches and completely ignore the rest of what attaches their stomach muscles to their legs, and in that condition ab ripper x is gonna tear you up.
My abs were no better than ok, but I had been working on the hip flexors and all that and the Ab Ripper X wasn’t all that bad.
If you're trying to get a more defined midsection, doing abdominal work is not going to accomplish that
Abdominal training for strength is a different story.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I did the whole thing for 90 days.
It works. I was about 170 when I started and ended up at 155 and fairly muscular looking. I did before and after shots and the difference was fairly dramatic.
by purplepansy on Apr 28, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
That's a good idea.
On the commercials, they never mention how much whiskey can help you get through a workout. Or those dull first few hours of work for that matter. Before and after shots could make those ab ripper workouts something to look forward to.
by BurtonOerney on Apr 28, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We can't assume.
But we can acknowledge that is a definite possiblity.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 27, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I was just drawing that parallel
That a turf toed Clausen might equate to a broken Hasselbeck.
Perhaps, but I have a very difficult time imagining a turf toe impacting Clausen's ability to throw at his maximum ability.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 28, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Considering the throws Clausen made after his injury, it didn't look as if it impact his throwing ability, if at all.
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 28, 2010 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions
It may not affect the zip on the ball but accuracy
one more thing to have to contend with
I wish Cops was on...
by Generzal Zod on Apr 28, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
He looked a good couple clicks better in his pro day
than most of his 2009 season. He could still make good throws, but healthy I expect he could do a little better even.
by jacobstevens on Apr 28, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Michael Johnson wishes he thoughtof that.
Oh wait..
Talents that I covet:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Sam Bradford, Mike Iupati, Golden Tate, Earl Thomas, and Freddie Barnes
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 27, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
This title sounds like an emo band name
This play never gets started.
That could be said for most of our offensive possessions last year. That O-line really sucked if the let Pitt run all over them like that. Tate can catch, I think receivers running bad routes can happen sometimes when they want something to happen and know the play will be over before the route is complete. Is his name going to be up there with the greats in the league? No, but I think he’ll be a reliable playmaker.
I wish Cops was on...
I think Tate's sloppy route running will become important. It seems to me that Hasselbeck is really picky about his receivers running precise routes.
Maybe its the inner Holmgren in him but he has only seemed to develope good chemistry with receivers who possesed supreme route running ability. I have no evidence to support this claim but I think Tate tightening up his routes is paramount to his chemistry with Hasselbeck.
Jeremy Bates' offense is not Mike Holmgren's offense.
That level of timing and precision may or may not be required, regardless of how capable of those things Tate is.
Early prospect watch: RB Mark Ingram, QB Jake Locker
Running precision routes is important in just about any offense
If he runs sloppy routes, he won’t succeed anywhere.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - Morgan
The precision routes thing was new last year, right?
I remember Hasselbeck in camp talking about how he had to get used to receivers running routes differently. Now I guess I can’t really remember. Did Bates have the receivers hit all their marks or was he letting them adjust as they were running? Either way, the difference was important to Hasselbeck.
by BurtonOerney on Apr 28, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
No Holmgren was always very demanding of route precision.
I think what Hasselbeck most had to get used to was the break and the pace that the WRs ran at. He’d become so reliant on Engram I think it was harder for him than it should have.
by jacobstevens on Apr 28, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
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