Assessing Need: Wide Receiver
by John Morgan on Apr 6, 2010 2:34 PM PDT
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PrintAll wide receivers lumped into a big wide receiver pile - surprisingly easy to do. Seattle needs three that can receive a starter's equivalent of snaps. It has T.J. Houshmandzadeh. Makes you wonder, if Nate Burleson was not worth a franchise tag in a vacuum, and he certainly was not, was it worth overspending to avoid another giant sinkhole?
Wide Receiver
Starter: T.J. Houshmandzadeh
Age: Turns 33 September 26.
Health: Excellent.
Contract: Four years remaining.
Performance: Solid.
Starter: Deion Branch
Age: Turns 31 July 18.
Health: Um.
Contract: More onerous by the season (two seasons remaining).
Performance: Good when healthy.
Starter:
Backup: Deon Butler
Age: Turned 24 January 4.
Health: Incomplete.
Contract: Three years remaining.
Performance: Incomplete.
Depth: Ben Obomanu
Age: Turns 27 October 30.
Health: Missed 2008 season, but mostly good.
Contract: RFA.
Performance: Gunner.
Depth: Ruvell Martin
Age: Turns 28 August 10.
Health: Incomplete.
Contract: One year remaining.
Performance: Incomplete.
Position need: Scroll through the Seahawks roster and a few other names appear: Gunner Sean Morrey, Patrick Carter, Michael Jones, and somehow Mike Hass is still around. Carter, Jones and Martin are big bodied receivers, and that does not bode well for Butler or Branch. Superficially, this seems like a GIANT GLARING NEED with SEASON CRIPPLING ramifications, but that's why superficial is like superficial. Seattle's single wing offense has no need for wide receivers. But whoever will play wingback?
Or, another way to put that is: Butler and Branch are likely misfit in this offense. Housh is a well paid possession receiver with airs and age. Martin is a step above a camp body, and a step below intriguing. Pretty huge need here.
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Wow, John
You are pumping out content like I’ve never seen. Thanks for all the work, especially since a lot of it is a bit depressing.
So. We're ok at Tight End...
I was thinking I would have to wait until LB before you detailed another ‘need-less’ position, but then I remembered there’s a good chance Curry is now considered as much a DE as an OLB. Unless you choose to split MLB from OLB, I guess I’ll have to hold out until Kicker then…
I think we’ll either trade for Marshall, or, if unsuccessful, look to pick up a WR in the 2nd/4th. I can’t see how we enter the regular season with Housh, Butler and Branch – who surely must be cut considering what he is due to be paid?
Big need
But I would still hate over-allocating resources to get Marshall, with so many other areas in dire need as well.
If theres one thing this front office has made clear it's that they aren't worried about giant, glaring sinkholes.
The only line of thinking that makes sense at this point is Locker or bust.
Maybe this all points to Seattle secretly developing sinkhole technology.
We could probably eke out a win if the Qwest grounds crew could engineer a sinkhole that opens up directly below the opponents’ sideline, but after the first occurrence it would probably be banned or become a 15 yard penalty or something dumb.
Yeah...
The NFL would probably make a rule against devouring the entire other team.
They hate us.
If Belichick did it ESPN would stand up for him and call it genius
At least we aren't the Raiders?
by Generzal Zod on Apr 7, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Or God-El would "take over" the investigation--
calling it an internal matter, then destroy all evidence and take away their natural 3rd round comp pick.
The rest of the league would then call the fans of the team that was gone whiners and sore losers.
Or it gets Carroll banished to the Phantom Zone
At least we aren't the Raiders?
by Generzal Zod on Apr 7, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Depressing or inspired?
If it was Ruskell’s strategy to assemble starting-calibre players in free agency to allow maximum freedom to draft best talent available regardless of position (within some reason), the current regime appears to be taking the opposite approach.
Carroll et al. have actually created more positions of need due to the departure of Tapp and Sims and failure to add what might be considered starting-calibre talent in free agency (with the one possible exception of Whitehurst).
While the two approaches differ, the result may well be the same, in that we now have so many holes we are able to effectively pursue best talent available due to glaring needs at nearly every position on the field, on both sides of the ball (excepting TE and, possibly, LB). Plus, many if not all of our draft picks will get to play from day one! Bonus. I see the strategy.
I hope these guys can pull something out of their respective you-know-whats in the draft, or this may well be a really, really painful year to watch Seahawks football.
I think the purpose of trading those guys is to "build through the draft"
That’s why we have gotten draft picks in return IMO
by Seahawksfan23 on Apr 6, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Except the draft picks are so low that they are basically worthless
I mean really, a 5th round pick for a starting offensive line player? Should have been at least a 2nd round pick. The Hawks are going backwards, and i am okay with that. It means fewer wins and higher on the draft board to get a franchise QB in next years draft. I hope the Hawks don’t sign Marshall, he doesn’t fit the timetable for team development. Hawks have more glaring needs elsewhere.
This draft is fairly deep at certain positions
There are decent WR that can come out of the later rounds, we won’t find someone who is going to be elite but we can find performers that can Matt or Charlie can spread the ball around to. There are Brandon Gibson types out there this year that can get the job done until we can spend a luxury draft pick.
The spread is bad for QB’s coming into the league but I think it has helped receivers, they tend to be more physical instead of gunning down the field, also the rule changes haven’t hurt them either.
At least we aren't the Raiders?
This may be where PC excells-- getting those high 9th round picks.
(aka free agents)
(before you say anything— there are indeed 8 rounds in every NFL draft. the main 7 plus the 32 comp picks. Always 32 comp picks— which is one extra round for NE and other teams.)
That is my one great hopes
he seems like a total workaholic and knows everyone coming out in the draft this year.
At least we aren't the Raiders?
by Generzal Zod on Apr 7, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
This draft is deep at many positions
Especially Offensive tackles and wide receivers. I’m praying Seattle drafts Shipley in the 4th round.
by Seahawksfan23 on Apr 7, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
With two firsts do you guys spend one of them on Dez Bryant?
or pick up a WR in the 2nd or 3rd?
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
I think they'd sooner trade for Marshall than use one of the first two picks on Bryant.
Or I hope so, at least.
Don't want Marshall
He is in his prime now, but the team is nowhere ready to take advantage of him. It will be years before the team is good enough to use him and he will be too old. GET A YOUNG WR THAT WILL GROW WITH THE TEAM!
Do WR's hit the same wall as RB's at 30?
I know they lose a step but over all is there a huge drop in production? It seems like there are a lot of good WR’s over 30.
At least we aren't the Raiders?
You've answered your own question.
There’s hardly any productive running backs in the league over 30. There’s plenty of WRs.
I think (and I'm no expert) that if we simply have WR's who can run decent routes and catch the ball for the most part, they will be sufficient at this point in time.
WR’s seem to be one of the last things necessary when building an offense. Obviously drops can become an issue, but WR play is entirely dependant on QB play. Which is also strongly dependant on O-Line/RB play. TE’s are independent from this process because they are lumped in with O-line on running plays, but lumped in with WR’s on passing plays. This is the basics, I’m not going into detail (because nobody would read it!).
I’d hope/guess that most front offices understand these very very simple relationships, which would mean that our current receivers would be servicable until we can get some O-line happening (understandign that they believe in Matt Hass/Charlie Whitehorse…uh…Whitehurst).
Tell this to Matt when he was throwing to Payne and McMuffin.
I think he’d argue something different.
More issues.
This is yet another example of bad drafting and FA pickups over the last five years. TJ is a good slot WR, but he is not someone that other teams have to gameplan around. Branch is an ok WR but he doesn’t scare anyone. Butler is too young to make a judgement about, and the rest of the guys are in that category of whatever.
Oh well, it is just another spot the team needs to rebuild over the next 2-3 years (unless they go “crazy” and make a trade for Marshall or draft Bryant).
I hear Spencer is on his way out
If so could he part of a package that involves switching 6 for 11 with Marshall? They really need 3 – 4 players and Rolando McClain could solve a lot of defensive problems for them. They also need o-linemen that are not ZBS players, is there anyone left over from Gibbs time there that the Broncos could throw into the pot to even out his numbers.
At least we aren't the Raiders?
Did he sign with the UFL?
…
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black*, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling**, RB Jonathan Dwyer
These were holes before we traded or let them walk
Sims will be starting for DET. Redding will be a backup in BAL. Tapp will be a backup in PHI. Seneca Backup in CLE. What holes am i seeing that were holes before? The players we have lost were not very good to begin with and prolyl will not get much better, maybe Tapp with the surronding talent around him. Facts are Facts. The players we have on this team are the reason we have won 9 games in two years PERIOD
Those aren't facts.
Players’ ability is subjective regardless of how other teams use them.
by DrunkAmerican on Apr 7, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions
So how do you see these teams using them?
IF Sims is the answer to DET line problems, then they are passing on Okung, who would deeply make that Line legit. Tapp will be a situational run stopper, due to the fact he cant sack the qb anymore, not that he cant get to him, he cant wrap him up EVER. Redding will be the biggest addition IMO due to the fact BAL will find a way to use him. We are talkin about 1 Pro Bowl amongst those players in over 12 years of exp combined.
But Detroit was planning to shift Backus back to gaurd filling a hole at Left Tackle
With the addition of Sims that eliminates that whole scenario and Backus remains at tackle. Now obviously Backus isn’t that good but Sims essentially eliminates Okung from Detroit’s board. Not saying that they won’t but more likely they will take Suh. Tapp is a better pass rusher but he simply couldn’t sack the QB as Bruto56 said it. 2.5 sacks isn’t gonna cut the deal. Yeah he got to the QB but he didn’t get to the QB with the ball still in his hand.
by Seahawksfan23 on Apr 7, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Tapp was not put into a position to succeed and was still incredibly disruptive.
And adding Rob Sims doesn’t change whether the Lions want to replace Backus or not. They might not have a place to move him to now but they’re still likely to want to get him out of the LT spot. I think Detroit takes Suh regardless but I don’t think that trade elimanted Okung from their board.
I second that evaluation on Tapp.
Between an unimpressive Kerney or LoJack on the other side and Colin Cole’s complete inability to dent the QBs pocket, Tapp had little chance to get to him in a timely manner. Tack on the fact that our secondary was at the very most the lower end of league average, so throws could be made when Tapp showed pressure. Not saying that Tapp was always the victim or whatever, only that he often contributed but that was masked by mediocre to bad play elsewhere.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
By the Way
Their will be many many FA options once the draft is over and players get cut, dont forgot that. Their will be Veteran’s who will be serviceable options taht will be available after the draft comes and goes. This team is being constructed in a way we are not used to due to Ruskell’s way of Assembling the squad. Let the full process go through before we take a look at the team we have. I have scratched my head at a few moves my self, but i also did the same With Jack Z. for the Mariners when he came. WHy would we get rid of one of our all stars in PUTZ for some CF with little experience? Schneider knows the players around this league, Carroll knows the players about to be in the league. If Draft day comes and we select Everson griffin with our 6th pick and Taylor Mays with our 14th then we can sign petition papers LOL. Till then, let them assemble the best squad they feel suits Carrolls coaching strenghths.
but pressure...but low trades...but the Queen and Prime Minister
I agree completely. Carroll is changing the culture of the team which before the last two years was very mediocre, easily winning a really weak division. The last two years were awful, hopefully this team has bottomed out. The players that have any value, and yes Tapp and Sims had value, hits on a QB help make things happen if you have players around him to make that happen and let’s face it our pass rush sucks and may not be better next year with several rookies probably starting, and Sims was good (but far from really good) were moved to get additional picks in a deep draft. I don’t think we are planning on using every single pick, I’d be okay if we moved those around and left the draft with 5 impact players.
Other than the 2005 season which was the greatest team ever assembled (in the Pacific Northwest) this team has not been good. Win now is why the Raiders, the Redskins, and the Bucs have been so awful the last few years.
Carroll is a good game day coach, and he with Schneider is changing the culture of the team. It
At least we aren't the Raiders?
by Generzal Zod on Apr 8, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
A team does not have a "culture"
I hate that phrase. It’s a fill in the blank for anything that doesn’t make sense.
culture - or mentality of the players - meaning set up by the front office, to win and a buy in from the players
There is a mentality the Patriots, Steelers, and Eagles have going into every season, that expect to win, they have faith in their coach and GM (and it has been earned by them and we definitely had that in ’05 with Holmgren.) The team knew they were going to the Super Bowl before the season started.
I hope that is what Carroll and Schneider are going to build, that type of team that truly believes they can win the Super Bowl every year.
At least we aren't the Raiders?
Gotta agree with General Zod here.
Anyone who has played on a variety of sports teams knows that overall attitude of the team makes a difference. It’s impossible to quantify the attitude of a team, certainly, because it’s a cumulative affect of individual attitudes. But I’ve definitely played on teams where the bulk of the team showed up every day to get better, and others where the bulk of the team showed up and were more or less content to put in their time and go home, and either way there’s a peer pressure that develops from the majority which steers players to follow suit and becomes contagious and nearly self-perpetuating as old players leave and new players arrive.
When Holmgren was brought here they said among the reasons was to change the culture of the franchise...
I think he accomplished that. We went from perennial losers to a winning organization for an extended period of time, including our first and only Super Bowl. Not only did the players change, but so did the atmosphere. Everyone bought into Holmgren and his teaching of how to practice, prepare, and most important: win. Players and other personnel respected him a great deal, and responded. If a football organization’s ‘Culture’ can be changed or described that way: mission accomplished while you were here, Holmgren.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black*, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling**, RB Jonathan Dwyer
Talented players with leadership skills will cause the less talented players to step up their play as well.
The Saints had some talent before Payton and Brees came to town. Their defense had good players like Will Smith but as a unit they took off when they brought in Jonathan Vilma.
The Raiders and Redskins have talented players but no one to lead them. Players with talent go to teams like the Raiders and Redskins but become irrelevant because they are only there for the money.
At least we aren't the Raiders?
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