Assessing Need: Defensive Tackle
by John Morgan on Apr 8, 2010 12:04 PM PDT
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PrintDefensive tackles are grouped together, not because they have such similar roles, but because I am not yet sure where everyone fits in.
Defensive Tackle
Starter: Colin Cole
Age: Turns 30 June 24.
Health: Good.
Contract: Four years remaining.
Performance: Ok against the run, no meaningful pass rush.
Starter: Brandon Mebane
Age: Turned 25 January 15
Health: Good.
Contract: One year remaining, plus RFA.
Performance: Excellent.
Rotational tackle: Craig Terrill
Age: Turns 30 June 27.
Health: Good.
Contract: One year remaining.
Performance: Decent situational penetrator, but incapable of anchoring against the run.
Depth: Red Bryant
Age: Turns 26 April 18.
Health: Incomplete.
Contract: Two years remaining, plus RFA.
Performance: Sturdy, flashed some playmaking ability, but inexperienced and too often assignment incorrect.
Position need: Seattle does not need a tackle, per se. It could start Mebane and Cole and rotate in Terrill and Bryant, and have a decent if not great corps. The allure of drafting a tackle stems primarily from just how truly awesome this tackle class is. Seattle has long-term needs at tackle, and that's best filled through the draft. Terrill is likely on his way out. Bryant has not established himself. Cole is a big problem against the pass. Mebane is nearing free agency. A smart team would capitalize on the meeting of need and value and draft someone to pair with Mebane for the future, but Seattle might struggle to draft a non-need when its needs are so glaring. Especially if it is indeed attempting to win now.
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I don't think a case can still be made that Seattle is trying to win now.
Jettisoning Tapp and Sims for draft picks runs counter to that idea. So does signing a guy who has never thrown a regular season pass in Whitehurst and declaring he’s going to challenge for the starting position. So does cutting a solid veteran starting safety (and team captain) for cash reasons. So does not resigning Hasselbeck’s most familiar target in Nate Burleson.
What have they done that implies a Win Now mentality? They seem to be solidly in bust-it-up-and-rebuild mode.
I've been wondering the same thing.
I guess maybe it’s the Whitehurst pickup. Given his age, perhaps it is presumed that the ’Hawks would not have invested the resources in him that they did unless they were planning to receive a return on that investment in the next couple years. It may also be the case that obtaining Whitehurst reduces the chances of selecting a first-round QB, which is probably the ultimate indicator of rebuilding as opposed to win-now.
Also, although I have yet to watch a Pete Carroll news conference, I suspect he has been asked whether he is rebuilding for the long-term or wants to win now. I think he probably would say “win now” lest fans despair and ticket sales suffer. As it stands, we are left with some glimmer of hope until the season starts, at which point we will probably despair.
In spite of those possible explanations, I agree that the weight of the evidence favors a significant rebuild with hedging bets just enough (Whitehurst, possibly Marshall) to salvage respectability for the next couple seasons.
I do not know how the ’Hawks could possibly pull off the type of offensive line makeover they appear to be engaged in and have serious hopes of success this coming season. Unless Alex Gibbs can truly walk on water.
Could someone explain to me the distinction between the two different DTs in a 4-3?
in a 4-3?
If life gives you lemons, keep the receipt
to the best of my knowledge
There is a 3-tech who is responsible for penetrating into the backfield and disrupting the pass while the 1-tech is basically there to not get his ass kicked on a double team.
by Hancock.Brett on Apr 8, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, generally
the “3 technique” is an alignment on the outside shoulder of the guard, and is generally given one gap responsibility. in a very general sense, his job is to penetrate the gap between guard and tackle (“B Gap”). Three techs are pass rush tackles like Tommie Harris.
“1-tech” aligns on the guard’s inside shoulder, in between the center and guard. This is more of a run stuffer position, and sometimes (but not always) has two gap responsibility. He forces double teams, and is sort of comparable to a 3-4 Nose Tackle. Might be considered a poor man’s NT.
Important note that these alignments are not at all set in stone, and will shift from play to play. Sometimes teams will line up with two tackles playing in the 3 technique, sometimes a 1and a 3, sometimes they’ll do somethind different. Generally 4-3 teams will have one DT that is primarily a 3-tech and another that is primarily a 1-tech, but players won’t be playing in that role all the time.
Not sure if this is true in Pete Carroll's system
Sedrick Ellis and Mike Patterson both played the nose in Carroll’s defense and both were effective pass rushers. Ellis finished 2nd in sacks on the team with 8.5 in his senior year. Patterson showed his ability to penetrate by leading USC in tackles for a loss and had 7.5 sacks as a junior and added another 6 sacks as a senior.
We could F**k everyone up and draft a 3-4 NT such as Dan Williams or Cody at 14...
and only then it be official that we are switching to a mostly 3-4 scheme. Cam Thomas might be another big-body available around pick 60. Wouldn’t that be something?
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black*, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling**, RB Jonathan Dwyer
Slightly off-topic, but
The thought of losing Brandon Mebane in free agency is both horrifying and nauseating.
6/14/60. Sweet.
Let's save that freak out for another day
Money talks in this league, so hopefully we will pay up and give him what he is due.
At least we aren't the Raiders?
Hopefully they lock him up at some point next year
especially when they see what he can do with our new and improved defense.
At least we aren't the Raiders?
why Nick, why?
I didn’t need to silently weep today.
by Hancock.Brett on Apr 8, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Lamar Houston at #60
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Plan A.
….Plan B: Houston at 60.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black*, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling**, RB Jonathan Dwyer
That is a pretty good plan B
I like Houston and that allows us to get Berry/Campbell, and Morgan
At least we aren't the Raiders?
I wonder if Odrick could be a candidate at 14?
I’m not sure the difference between him and the guys who could be on the board at 60 is large enough to warrant that high of a pick on him.
I think if we are looking for the best remaining 3-tech that can rush the passer, Houston might be the best fit. Can’t say I’m confident he lasts until 60, however. We may have to trade up (good thing we have extra picks in rounds 4 and 5).
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black*, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling**, RB Jonathan Dwyer
I've heard Odrick is a better fit as a 3-4 end, in the pros
Price would be the only 4-3 DT worth taking at #14 (and that would be a big reach), but not sure if he’s a 3-tech. I’d contend Price would be a better fit than Odrick, in any case.
From what I understand Odrick would be fine as a 4-3 3-tech and he's a better pass-rusher than Price.
But there are mixed reviews. It very well may be that Odrick is more valuable to a 3-4 team as an end.
Early prospect watch: RB C.J. Spiller, QB Sam Bradford, OT Ciron Black*, DT Gerald McCoy, S Eric Berry, DT Ndamukong Suh, CB Ras-I Dowling**, RB Jonathan Dwyer
Not that I pretend to know what's really going on with our defense these days
But if we’re switching to some kind of standup end player, then the DT beside him would probably be similar to a 3-4 end, wouldn’t it? Or a quick 4-3 tackle. My thought was that because there would be more times when they are on their own as an end in PC’s 4-3, then they would be playing a similar position (in that situation) as a 3-4 end.
Me Wants
If we can get Suh or McCoy i say do it. Pair him with Mebane and draft Morgan and i don’t see running backs padding thier stats on our defense, which they have been doing alot of in recent years. STOP THE RUN!!!! If you make it happen then the turnovers will come.
As for the idea the Hawks plan to win now is a joke. The team needs to have some serious chemistry and the draft better produce starters with every pick for every hole we have. Unless that happens we will be picking in the top 10 again next year. So STOP THE RUN NOW!!!! and let Gibbs get his talent for the O-line in the later rounds. Oh and find us a safety somewhere.
While it's less important than other areas
It’s still a pretty important aspect of a successful defense. Having a bad pass defense is a step up to having a bad pass/run defense. Although I think it could be argued that McCoy and Morgan would help with both.
I think people often overdevalue (awesome word) the run in the NFL. The league may have gone to pass oriented, but teams still averaged 27 rushes per game last year. Running still gets the Jets and Baltimore into the playoffs. Passing and Rushing seem to be very correlative* at times, resulting in teams incorporating both. I don’t think we can minimize the run without deemphasis on the effect it has on the pass and vice versa.
*Not saying they’re equal.
Pairing a blue chip DT like Suh (pipe dream) or McCoy (possible) with Mebane improves both run and pass defense
It makes LoJack a lot better and means our LB’s (Curry included) can get into the back field and really create problems.
At least we aren't the Raiders?
by Generzal Zod on Apr 9, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not saying we should pass on Suh or McCoy, I'd love to have either of them.
I just don’t think the team should make run defense a priority. Especially after seeing Mora sink a fairly talented defense trying to do just that.
Otherworldly defense gets the Jets and the Ravens in the playoffs.
They run so much because they have crappy quarterbacks.
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