2009 Season Retrospective: Matt Hasselbeck
Matt Hasselbeck
2006
2007
2008
Outlook: Here's something you learn as you get older: Very little worth doing is easy and everything takes three times as long as you hoped. I spent the better part of this morning looking for quality play diagramming software. Seems: easy. Surprisingly: not. And since what I found is pretty expensive, I am inclined to make sure that I find the right product before committing. So if you know a good provider and would like to help me out, it would be tremendously appreciated. I am about to flood the site with play diagrams from the Jeremy Bates offense, and after making them mostly from scratch last season, I learned that it's time intensive and sloppy looking making play diagrams from scratch. You can not always go for the quick return. Sometimes getting what you need takes a little more time and resources than you would like, but at least you are not constantly starting from scratch.
I have a few more season retrospectives to publish, but we're mostly done. About everyone agrees that Hasselbeck was poorly matched for Greg Knapp's system. Jeremy Bates' offense is much closer to Knapp's than it is to Holmgren's. It involves a lot of moving pockets, rollouts and throwing down field. In 2008 it even involved designed quarterback draws.
Knapp didn't enter with too sterling a reputation, and so when his offense failed, it was easy enough to call him a hack and move on. Bates is a little better regarded, especially in light of the Broncos offensive miracle of 2008. If Hasselbeck struggles in this system, I wonder, which way will the blame fall?
I wonder, does Hasselbeck have a credible chance of ending the season as the Seahawks starting quarterback? And should he?
Pete Carroll is not a dull man, especially not regarding matters of public perception. Hasselbeck is beloved in Seattle and a media savvy head coach does not introduce himself to a city by benching or replacing the most popular and respected player. If Seattle had a quarterback of the future or was able to acquire a quarterback it could be sure it would stick with, the Seahawks organization would have a graceful way of moving on. But Seattle didn't and wasn't able to acquire one and even the most roseate Whitehurst backer is smart enough to know he is a long shot with limited time to prove himself. Not knowing Whitehurst too well and with Charlie only signed for two seasons, pragmatically, the only choice for Carroll is to publicly support Hasselbeck. He is the closest thing to a starting quarterback the Seahawks have. So Carroll has said the right things. He has spoken of Hasselbeck's drive and intelligence and leadership and all the typical qualities affixed a veteran player. But what should Carroll say? Hasselbeck is terribly mismatched for my offensive coordinator's scheme? Of course not.
No, truth is seldom found in words. It's found in actions. And trading for Charlie Whitehurst is an action. Seattle could have signed someone through free agency. It could have spent less to acquire Brady Quinn. It could have retained Seneca Wallace and removed all doubt. But it targeted Whitehurst and spent more, because Whitehurst fits the profile of a Jeremy Bates quarterback. Whitehurst has a very different set of tools than Hasselbeck. Those tools are, not incidentally, a lot like Jay Cutler's tools. Those tools are, not incidentally, a lot like newest backup J.P. Losman's tools. And those tools are, particularly arm strength and foot speed, tools Hasselbeck has never had in abundance and are certainly not tools he is carrying well into his mid-thirties.
The discussion about Hasselbeck always seems to center around whether Matt is still capable of being a good quarterback. But, in light of his contract, the scheme Seattle wants to run, its inexperience on offense and Matt's age, we should be asking whether Matt is still a justifiable investment for the Seattle Seahawks.
Supporters invoke Kurt Warner, but Warner was a year younger than Hasselbeck is now when he signed with the Cardinals. Warner signed to a team farther along in its rebuild and did not succeed during Arizona's rebuild. His former team, the Giants, drafted a franchise quarterback, Eli Manning, struggled for a while, and then won the Super Bowl. Warner enjoyed two and half good seasons for a ready made Cardinals offense, and the Cardinals themselves had two good seasons with Warner, and are now, possibly, screwed. It was a pairing of a team ending a rebuild but that lacked a quarterback with a quarterback with a few good seasons left that lacked a team. Ditto Brett Favre in Minnesota. Green Bay moved on with its young talent and when Aaron Rodgers emerged, the Packers reopened their championship window for another decade. All four teams ended with a quarterback that fit where they were as a franchise and what they needed to best be able to compete.
Seattle drafted young and talented at 14 and 60. It took a recovering player with long odds to contribute with its next pick, Walter Thurmond. It could have done what Tim Ruskell did for years and select polished players able to contribute immediately, but it didn't. And we lauded the organization for that vision. Carroll and John Schneider made the hard decision of adding talent and accepting that talent will take time to develop.
Among that talent is its coaching staff, and key among that coaching staff is Jeremy Bates. Bates has proven he can coach an elite NFL offense, but he didn't do it with Matt Hasselbeck or a quarterback anything like Matt Hasselbeck. That is not some incidental sticking point. Bates cannot channel Holmgren circa 2003 and be successful. Bates built a system that worked fantastically well in the modern NFL, and that system was built around an athletic quarterback with a cannon arm. You wouldn't force Cutler onto Holmgren, yet some want to force Hasselbeck onto Bates.
The discussion should no longer center around whether Hasselbeck can be good again, but whether this new coaching staff, this new general manager, this young core of talent, whether Earl Thomas and Russell Okung and Brandon Mebane and Josh Wilson, whether the future of the Seattle Seahawks should be tied to Matt Hasselbeck. Because, what truly does a successful season by Hasslebeck give the Seahawks? It doesn't make him younger. It doesn't re-sign him. It doesn't give us good reason to believe he will continue to play well into his late thirties. It certainly doesn't give us good reason to think he will continue to remain healthy. For all the flak the Seahawks offensive line has received, Hasselbeck's recent injuries -- the ribs, the shoulder, the back, the broken fingers in 2006 -- have had little to do with his protection. And his injuries did not start when the line crumbled. Hasselbeck suffered a bruised thigh, an injured groin, a balky elbow, a separated shoulder and a torn labrum playing behind Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson. A good season, a return to 2007, a performance at 90% his peak, gives us nothing. It gives us 2010 and a framework for false hope.
It's over.
The Matt Hasselbeck era in Seattle is over but for the painful goodbye.
Denial doesn't make Matt younger, doesn't make Matt healthier, doesn't change history, doesn't make the rest of the Seahawks better or better able to compete this or next season, and it doesn't reclaim the past. People either see how much Matt Hasselbeck has declined, or they don't want to know. It is time those that do not want to know fight through the fog of nostalgia and denial and face the truth. The slim chance that Hasselbeck could rebound is not nearly enough reason for the Seahawks to build around their once great quarterback. Hasselbeck may have good seasons left, but those seasons should not be played in Seattle. If there's a Minnesota that can take him, I wish him well, but Seattle must be Green Bay.
Hasselbeck was maybe the best quarterback in franchise history, and as the best quarterback in franchise history, perhaps the greatest Seahawk ever. He wasn't just a good player, Matt Hasselbeck is a good man and person we all love cheering for. His talent, hard work and intelligence made him a millionaire and a star. And he earned it, because Hasselbeck gave hope and passion and distraction and joy to millions of fans. No one else, not another in millions, could have taken this team so far. But the end is coming, and the end is indifferent to our selfish need to delay it. The end is coming, and I for one would rather see the end, than wallow any longer in the demise.
4 recs |
79 comments
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Comments
I agree with all of this, except that it's over.
It’s not because I want to believe. What I want is to 1) know for certain whether there’s any reason to keep dating Charlie Whitehurst, and 2) take subsequent appropriate action, none of which includes re-signing Hasselbeck. I don’t want him re-signed. I love him like everyone else, but I don’t want a single more year past this one. I also want to move on.
But I think he’s going to have a good season and complicate things. I don’t think it’s anything comparable to Warner. I just see a remarkable difference between the minicamp clips and last preseason/last season. I really do.
I don’t think he’s any less injury prone. I don’t expect 16 games. I don’t know what I expect, except that he’ll look good, even in Bates’ offense, until he gets hurt, whether it’s against the 49ers on opening weekend, preseason, or all the way until week 9.
From my expectations, I guess I could think of no more ideal a scenario than Hasselbeck playing great, for at least the first month if not longer, getting hurt, and then Whitehurst taking over and playing very well. Like Brady for Bledsoe. A playoff run, this year, and a QB for the future, sans Hasselbeck, with infinite gratitude for all he gave to us. I don’t want him to get hurt, at all, but that would be the dream scenario. Better than Hasselbeck sucking and getting benched.
As painful as it will definitely be, you are right. Thank you for your services Matt, but the Seahawks need to move forward convincingly, and QB is a huge part of this transformation process. At least split some snaps pleaseee
Agreed.
Hey before you comment use the subject line. Thanks!
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
The truth sucks.
You think Bates would jump on Locker if given the chance? Seems like he’s the perfect fit for Bates’ offense.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
by Nick Andron on Jul 20, 2010 5:39 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Draft Grade
I’ve seen reports that Locker stayed at UW because he was given a 2nd round grade by advisers. Even if Seattle has a decent year I think there’s still a chance that he’ll be available.
Right now I think ANYONE would jump all over Locker
Well, any team going into 2011 without an established (or up-and-coming) franchise QB on its roster, that is.
Oh man...
I’ve been deliberately keeping my mind off that scenario because it’s rampant homerism, it’s far-fetched, and it’s off-topic for now. But since you brought it up, oh man, I have some SERIOUS Locker-lust. Seeing him hold up the “#1” Seahawks jersey and smile for the cameras in New Jersey next spring would be so f*ing awesome.
Ok, I’m now officially going to tamp down that emotion for the next several weeks before my next outbreak.
How much does USC's offensive struggles
last year alter the perception of Bates as a play caller?
I realize they had a True Freshman QB™ and all but the rest of the offense was veteran.
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I am not sure anyone can answer that.
The perception? He did coach a freshman to a bowl victory. Seems like one can interpret that however they want.
by John Morgan on Jul 21, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess the better phrased question would be, someone's decently qualified take.
From my perspective. In comparison to his legitimacy seemingly established on the successful Broncos season.
by jacobstevens on Jul 21, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Right I think this is sort of what I was getting at
it seems like when talking about Bates people only talk about what he did with Denver and don’t talk about what he did at USC.
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Wasn't it also the worst performing offense of the PC era?
I realize a lot of the W-L record was the fault of the defense but the USC offense felt horribly inconsistent last season.
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It had big shoes to fill
and last year’s team felt like one of the least talented units of Carroll’s tenure.
Well the defense the year before was one of the best in school history
so regression was to be expected, but I think that went beyond regression.
There was plenty of talent on that team, but there wasn’t a lot of execution. Anywho, enough on this. I am hopeful that Bates can do something with the Seahawks.
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Is "It's over" wishful thinking?
It’s going to go on for at least another season, insofar as he can play. And if (possible but not likely) he stays healthy, it could go on another season. So how is it (now) over?
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
First of all, there's no guarantee he'll be able to finish THIS season
And Matt is a free agent after this season; would Q/PM want to resign a QB if his current replacement is on the last year of his contract in 2011, and they also draft another replacement as well? Even if everything goes right for Matt this season it’s still more likely he would sign with another team, since the Seahawks seem to be heading in another direction regardless.
I think the part that's over is the idea that the Seahawks' return to contention will be lead by Matt Hasselbeck.
Carroll has two good reasons I can see to start Hasselbeck in the early part of the season. Number one, he gives them the best chance to win, and its a lot easier for new coaches if they can get some wins early. Number two, benching him to start the season would risk a fan and local media revolt.
However, I suspect that once Seattle is realistically out of the playoff race (say 3 games back in the NFC West, or 2 games in the last third of the season), Carroll can and will start talking about the future, bench Matt and go with Whitehurst or Losman. At that point he can say they tried to win now but it didn’t work out, and fans will understand.
Matt Hasselbeck "leading" the Seahawks to contention will probably occur
Like how Joe Flacco led the Ravens one step shy of the Super Bowl two years ago.
A lot of things would need to happen but I no longer trust Hasselbeck to be a competent QB, which is why I think Seattle’s only shot at contention this year (or even next year) without an adequate passing game is a dominant defense and a great time-killing, drive-extending rushing attack.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
That dominant defense implies an awesome pass rush
Great linebacker play, and a solid secondary (one that could benefit from an awesome pass rush).
If one of the keys to a dominant defense is a very good pass rush, then there is very little evidence to suggest the front four can pull this off.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
We're going to face a LOT of teams that'll emphasize rushing the ball
Because of lack of experience or general shittiness at the QB position (pretty much every NFC West opponent, and a few other teams we play this year).
Our defense stacks up well against the rushing attack. We can only hope the secondary has improved enough to lend to a bend but don’t break defense (prevent long receptions, force turnovers w/ ball-hawking DBs, etc).
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
We are facing some serious running back competition this year
Charles, Gore, Jackson, Bush, Matthews, Sproles, Moreno, etc.
The Dos Equis guy wishes he was Brock Lesnar.
by SSreporters on Jul 21, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
We had it pretty rough in 09 too:
Gore, Jackson, MJD, Chris Johnson, Wells, Peterson, MAURICE MORRIS!… But yeah I’d say a few more tough RBs this year than last.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Exactly.
I’m not too worried about it, honestly. We have a pretty darn good front 7 at run stoppage (on paper, at least).
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Is everyone just cool with Colin Cole now?
We’ve settled into liking his run stopping ability? Maybe it was that personable interview on Brock’n’Salk that quieted critics but I thought he was gonna be the new Brian Russell. His slowness is sickening.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I remember him going one-on-one with Chris Johnson in the left flat
predictable (but no less painful) outcome. It’s pretty comical in retrospect.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I actually think Hasselbeck can be a competent QB when healthy and in a system that matches his skill set.
But from what John has said about the Bates offense, that’s just not the case anymore. Put him on a team with a quality offensive line that runs the west coast offense, and he probably still has enough left in the tank to be successful.
Okay, clearly my question should have been, "What's over?"
Because the nightmare of Hasselbeck’s decline as the Seahawks quarterback (if that’s what we agree this is) is demonstrably not over.
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
Yes, I agree...
While by no means a foregone conclusion, this seems like the most likely scenario.
I think the point is
that having Matt allowed a generally acceptable fig leaf to the less read fan that we are tring to ‘win now’. Like most here I agree that is not likely this year, and for my money that fig leaf is show to be what it is to the average fan soon.
That said Matt is all class and one of the best ever to don our colors.
I have nothing but admiration for him.
Just wish he would not scramble so much…Oh! And had a stronger arm….
But other than that!
by ChucklehutCynic on Jul 20, 2010 6:38 PM PDT reply actions
stoopid spell check.......
should read: and for my money that fig leaf is shown to be what it is to the average fan soon.
by ChucklehutCynic on Jul 20, 2010 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt's My Man
I know what you are thinking, I’m some kind of Hasselbeck Homer. My fav name for him was Hasselblech in his early years but he’s matured and become a solid QB. Why am I fired up for him and expect him to succeed despite the system and team changes occuring? Let me spell them out:
1. Whitehurst is not our future and Losman was a steal as a 3rd string, but not our future either.
I certainly hope either could be, but I don’t see it. QB is A: about knowing where to get the ball and B: the ability to get it there. I don’t think Whitehurst has A which is why he’s been 3rd string his entire career. I can’t see him suddenly becoming a #1 after all this time.
If Losman had been available, we would have never gone after Whitehurst. PC knew Wallace was not a serviceable backup nor the future, especially after his play last year and the disgusting games against the Vikings and Colts, and he needed a solid backup and someone that could be the future. Whitehurst was their best option. Losman could well be the future of this team but there is a steep climb ahead for him.
2. We need Hass for 2 more years.
Next year, we draft a real QB, the best QB we can get to in the 1st. We then need him to study under a proven QB for a year to improve their chances of success. Re-sign Matt for 1 year, teach our real future QB, and then hand over the reigns and let Matt decide to go to backup or play for another team.
3. PC needs some success his first year. Even Mora got 5 wins. If he falls short of that the players will begin to question the strategy, the team, and the head coach. His best shot at 6+ wins is with Matt.
Given all the above, Bates will adjust his system to make an accurate, less mobile thrower be sucessful. He won’t ask Matt to do things he can’t do. We’ll get the running game going as best we can, use ball control passing offense, and hope our defense can come up with enough turn-overs to keep us in the game. In that system, Matt can put up good numbers, stay healthy, and put us in the position to take us back to a Superbowl contending team (in 3 or 4 years).
by SpellStitchedHawk on Jul 20, 2010 9:57 PM PDT reply actions
Losman was an unrestricted free agent. Pretty sure that means he was available the whole time.
Nobody wanted him. Not even the Raiders.
by B.B.Finnegan on Jul 20, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
But the Raiders did want Russell
At least until this last year. Just sayin’.
Your three numbered points are not reasons to "expect him to succeed," they are reasons to expect him to play.
Your concluding paragraph’s predictions about strategy were attempted by Knapp last season, and Matt did not put up good numbers or stay healthy. Why would it be different this year? I’m also not sure how Hasselbeck playing in 2010 and 2011 have anything to do with Seattle contending in 2012 and 2013.
I do expect the O-line upgrades to offer him better protection and reduce the chances of injury, and if he’s healthy he’ll should be decent. But none of the above seems like reason to be excited about his chances.
Yeah, Whitehurst's not our future
He got his chance and blew it! Let’s forget about it and move on.
Oh wait.
Not much else to say. I almost wish it was this year, just delaying the inevitable crash.
This is worse then an ex-girlfriend you still like very much and who won’t leave to make things better because she still likes you very much but you both know you’ll never get along because you never have so you start arguing about sandwiches.
This sounds like a very personal story.
Let it all out, BB.
Oh if only that were true!
I haven’t had a good argument about sandwiches since I was a small child.
by B.B.Finnegan on Jul 21, 2010 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Peanut Butter and Bananas.
Mine is better than yours.
In response to number 2.
I don’t think anyone will keep around an aged and ineffective quarterback an extra year just to be a teacher. In my mind it’s not likely to factor much at any rate. Rookie or 2nd-year quarterbacks can learn just fine with game tape, a QB coach, and their own minds.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Oops, supposed to be a reply to SpellStitched
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I am another one of "those guys" that still think Hasslebeck is our best option this year.
Despite all the evidence to the contrary, and the detailed article making it painfully obvious that we aren’t as good as we could be if we had a new franchise quarterback, I still root for Hasslebeck to succeed.
Partially its following this blog that makes me wonder what a Whitehurst or a Losman can really do if given an opportunity. They have been inconsistent with accuracy, and barring some miracle of one of the two of them finding playing time, and also finding some consistency we just don’t have a better option.
At least with Matt, until we find someone to pass the torch over to, we know what to expect and if given a good enough team we could still be mildly successful. If the team isn’t that great (and they probably aren’t), then I really doubt that putting the team in Whitehurst’s hands really helps us at all except whether or not we wasted a draft pick and a decent sum of money on a QB with no real experience. Call me crazy but we could have done that with a Rookie QB without giving up a draft pick.
It would be different if we were starting fresh with a rookie QB or
Well done Mr. Morgan.
This is very well written and I agree with all of your points.
Great insight.
by killacamkilla2 on Jul 20, 2010 11:38 PM PDT reply actions
At this point, I'm in favor of 'Let the Best Man Play'
That seems to be what PC is doing with recruiting Whitehurst and Losman. Both, along with Hasslebeck, represent three different tiers of QB experience: We have Whitehurst, who is a 4-year veteran with little wear-and-tear or mileage but mighty mighty arm strength. There’s Losman, who has more field experience and is still within his physical prime, but lacks decision-making skills. And there’s Hasslebeck, who is on the downward slope of his career, can’t quite get the deep passes there, isn’t as mobile as before, but has gads of experience and, with good line protection, can work a mid-range game the best of the three.
Everything we’ve heard from PC has been about competition. I say let that be the watchword. With all three QB’s competing for the starting job, I’ll be satisfied with whoever manages to land it. Chances are, that’ll be Hasslebeck, and that’s fine. Despite diminishing tools, he’s still by far the most experienced QB on the team and I think that’ll show on the field.
If, despite the odds, he manages to play all 16 games with decent numbers, I say resign him to a 1-year deal and start looking at the draft for the real QB of the future. Losman’s already shown he has difficulty competing at this level, and as for Whitehurst…well, I’ll believe it when I see it, but spending four years holding Phillip Rivers’ clipboard doesn’t strike me as an impressive resume. Throughout the season, I’d say let him play a series or two a game, maybe in the 4th quarter or when the outcome’s decided one way or the other. And definitely run him ragged during the preseason; every snap he takes will help measure whether he’s worth putting in the starting position eventually, or if he’ll end up being a quality backup.
If not, then we start playing Whitehurst and get the same result of gauging his performance. His ability to perform at an NFL regular season level is the team’s biggest X factor and getting a fix on it will decide our next move come next year as far as looking at quality replacements in the draft.
This article is like a chainsaw lined with tongues that then had the tongues replaced with steel tipped boots and lined up exactly against my groin.
by Robert on Jul 21, 2010 7:45 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
That picture paired with this article
kiiiiiiiiiiind of gives me a lump in my throat. I sincerely hope (though will most likely have these hopes dashed) that after this season, we don’t re-sign Matt but he ends the year intact and simply retires from the game as a Seahawk. I would hate (HATE) to see him on another team, even as a backup. It just wouldn’t feel right.
Field Gulls: my anti-PFT.
Well Matt used to be a Packer.
And so few players stay with one team their whole career anyway. So it wouldn’t irk me personally.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
That picture haunted me all yesterday and is still kind of screwing with me today.
That was among the hardest posts I have ever written. It took surprisingly long. It started on its own, because I had no intention of writing the Hasselbeck retrospective yesterday. I was writing something else entirely and it just started writing itself. I have been putting it off for weeks. And now, I am kind of drained.
by John Morgan on Jul 21, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Loved the last paragraph
This situation reminds me a little of the one we might have had with Walt but instead we were spared seeing him play significantly below his best for an extended period of time because of injury.
With Matt… well, it’s back to 1988, Cocktail and Brian: “Everything ends badly, otherwise, it would never end.”
A 2010 strategic option for the QB position, inspired by John's analysis and conclusion:
I say start the season with Matt as the #2 QB. Start Losman or Whitehurst, whoever wins the top spot.
Advantages:
1) Bate’s offense has a better chance to play the vertical game, making it far more entertaining.
2) We get to see if one of these two guys can play, long-term.
3) 2010 is a growing year (Okung, Thomas, Tate, coaching staff) so PC has some leeway.
4) Matt doesn’t get hurt right away, and remains fresh deep into the season.
5) Seattle has a back-up QB who can come into any game and win it.
6) If Seatle gets to the playoffs, they have a fresh QB to finish the season, if the starter gets hurt.
7) If Matt starts the season, and gets hurt like everyone thinks, both Whitehurst and Losman will have more difficulty coming in and winning than Matt would, as oppposed to having one of them pegged as the starter from the begginning and getting all the game prep and game experience thaty they both need (and Matt doesn’t) to be effective.
8) At the end of the year, Matt is probably healthier and a (potentially cheper) option to resign, if necessary.
9) At the end of the year, the team knows what they have in Whitehurst/Losman.
10) Finally, I want to see the Seahawks throw the ball down the field. They have the scheme, the WRs, the offensive coordinator, and two QBs with the arms. I say lets play them.
Look into those Boston Blue Eyes, and then you bench him.
by jacobstevens on Jul 21, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I could do it.
Unless he bats them at me. Then I’m all jelly inside.
But if Whitehurst or Losman stink,
then we have this awkward tension going on because Pete will be pressured to bench Whiteman and get pulled into this back-and-forth Andersen/Quinn thing. I can see the players resenting Matt getting benched too, courtesy of his strong leadership.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Matt will play out the 2010 season as the starter.
Then I think he’s gone, either retirement or backup.
When Josh Barnett pisses in a cup, magic comes out.
"what the f**k is the internet?"
Pain don't hurt...
Come now it's not likely to be that horrible.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
So you've seen him play in a Bates offense
Thats great, cause none of the rest of us have seen him play really at all. Can we get your scouting report from the play that you have seen. Maybe a link???
I think Jacksonville would be a likely destination
Especially if Garrard doesn’t amaze.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
He wont.
When Josh Barnett pisses in a cup, magic comes out.
"what the f**k is the internet?"
Pain don't hurt...

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