Seahawks Training Camp: Backup Quarterback
by John Morgan on Jul 30, 2010 6:07 PM PDT
25 comments
J.P. Losman is the retread. Charlie Whitehurst the young gun-slinger. Everything is established and neatly classified.
But, did you know that Whitehurst is little more than a year younger than Losman? Whitehurst is closer in age to Losman than Earl Thomas is to Russell Okung. Seattle spent big on Whitehurst and his lack of failure leads many to be more optimistic about his potential, but it's entirely possible that Losman wins the pre-season battle to back up Matt Hasselbeck. It's entirely possible that Losman proves to be the better quarterback.
Backup Quarterback
2009: Seneca Wallace
Wallace has sacked himself for the last time in Seahawks blue. Like most backup quarterbacks and about half the starters, Seneca was one part exciting and three parts gawdawful. But here's a question that cuts right to the heart of the matter: Will Wallace be worse than Losman, Whitehurst or Hasselbeck in 2010? I wish I could say for sure.
The Import: Charlie Whitehurst
Whitehurst is a career backup with a spotty pre-season record. There is not a lot in the way of evidence that Whitehurst can succeed in the NFL, so much as reasons we shouldn't write him off. Yes, he was third-string on the Chargers depth chart, but behind Philip Rivers and, erm, Billy Volek. And, yes, Volek is 34 and a career backup, but the Chargers really like him. So, you see, Whitehurst can still be good, because the evidence that he's bad isn't conclusive.
He has excellent tools and is an excellent fit for Jeremy Bates system, and the thinking seems to be that Seattle can surround Whitehurst with talent and that he will succeed because of that talent. It's not unheard of. Surrounding a quarterback with talent and a strong system is exactly how Bill Walsh turned Steve Young into a Hall of Fame inductee. It is also, one might argue, what Bates did for Jay Cutler.
We shall see, and while we do, another very similar player might prove the theory correct while simultaneously proving the Whitehurst trade foolish.
The Retread: J.P. Losman
If we are willing to be very open-minded about Whitehurst, why not apply the same attitude towards UFL Champion J.P. Losman? It's only sensible. The assumption seems to be that Losman is a proven failure while Whitehurst is all beard, locks and potential. But wouldn't a more logical comparison be that Losman has achieved 33 NFL starts and thrown 952 regular season passing attempts, and Whitehurst none? Some Seahawks fan are claiming that it is better to fail in the pre-season and never earn a regular season passing attempt than it is to fail in the regular season. That seems.. specious.
Losman is strong-armed and fleet of foot, just like Whitehurst. He struggles from the same weaknesses, too. Both players struggle reading coverage, struggle sensing pressure and take too many bad sacks. Bates seems to think he can cure those weaknesses. And maybe he can.
2007: 5.5%
2008: 1.8% (best in the NFL)
2009: 5.8%
Cutler's completion percentage and adjusted yards per attempt dropped from 2007 to 2008, but Cutler went from a normal sack percentage to best in the league.
Something to consider. Despite the relative resources invested in trading for Whitehurst versus signing Losman, I think the competition for backup quarterback, and by way of it, competition for starting quarterback, is wide open.
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Is it also possible Hasselbeck just completely sucks in the preseason
And as a result gets benched for Whitehurst/Losman?
To me Losman sucks but at least he has experience in the regular season, something Whitehurst doesn’t know. I’m hoping Whitehurst shows something in preseason to earn the backup spot.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
I'd give either guy a shot simply based on how well they fit the system
I don’t know how many people really prefer the Loseman’s chances over Aragorn’s. Tho Aragorn is much dreamier.
But Colt could come in and save the day
He’s got a really good offensive line.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
Yes, but they'd have to run the 'all tight ends' offense.
Since Colt can only throw it about has far as 2009 Hasselbeck.
Red Bryant: surprise us!
Pssshhh
Just run nothing but screens to Harrison and run gadget plays with Josh Cribbs. Although with Holmgren as part of the organization I wonder if Colt will get to see shotgun without Mike giving Mangini a stern stare.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
But the most pressing question regarding the Holmgren era:
Who’s the fullback??
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I'll give all three the benifit.
What I"m most exited about is that we’re ten times better off than we were last year. Have to be.
by Great Sergios Ghost on Jul 30, 2010 10:29 PM PDT reply actions
I don't think Whitehurst comes close to Losman in terms of athletic ability.
Arm strength might be a draw, but there’s no way Whitehurst has Losman’s foot speed (similar 40 times be damned). Neither guy had a spectacular college career by NFL standards, but Losman’s tools earned him a first round grade in the draft—while Whitehurst went in round 3.
I’ve always been a fan of Losman as a talent, but I’m worried that he’s reached that human punching bag zone that claimed David Carr. Let’s hope that Losman’s championship season in the UFL gave him some of his mojo back.
So does Cutler's 2009 away from Bates/Shanahan
make one think that maybe Cutler isn’t very good outside of that system, and an athletic QB with a good arm can have significant success under Bates
Cutler and Whitehurst were both in the 2006 draft; Bates must have liked him back then and thought he could fit the offense if they couldn’t land Cutler.
His 2009 away from Bates/Shanahan involved
A terrible offensive line and a converted DB as one of their best receivers.
Nick Garcia is the Brian Russell of MLS but 10 times worse.
by SSreporters on Jul 31, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Thrilled to be wrong but I think the "open QB competition" thing is hype
Hasselbeck studies hard, practices hard and gets everyone on his side with his personality. He would need a major preseason collapse to lose his job, at least for Week 1. And Whitehurst, with what was invested to get him, would also have to be a disaster and Losman a hero to lose the backup job out of camp.
I think you're right. The competition is really for #2 QB, not starter.
Lighting a new fire under Matt Hasselbeck at this stage of his career was essential. His coaches and GM all knew that, and good for them to bring in younger arms. I’m expecting Losman to win the #2 job. Its not just his experience, but there are reasons Losman was a first round draft pick. In Buffalo, Losman was struggling behind an O line that was just as injured and just as bad as the line Hasselbeck struggled behind last season. With Okung, Hamilton, and Pitts, things are looking up for our O line, for Hasselbeck, and potentially for Losman.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Rumors of Matt Hasselbeck's demise are greatly exaggerated.
I know this won’t be a popular opinion with some here on FieldGulls, but..
We’ve seem plenty of QBs struggle for a season after enduring a serious rib injury. Injuring the ribs robs the whole upper body of strength, and hurting that badly robs a QB of his confidence to take a hit. Matt was obviously weak and lacked confidence late last year while still rehabbing. That doesn’t change the fact that he looked strong and confident at the start of last season, and he is the unquestioned leader on the field for this team. He’s 34, so no guarantees that his body can handle much more football, but counting out Hasselbeck was a popular sport here last year, and I think its likely he soon shows those opinions to be suspect.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
He was bad at the start of the season, against the Rams.
As he has been bad three of the last four seasons. If anything, I have been incredibly gracious with my analysis of Hasselbeck.
by John Morgan on Jul 31, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
wasn't referring to you analyses, John
but some here have been over the top. We’ll see how he does. I’m not one of those people who claims that Hass has “3 good years left” – that’s nonsense. But I also don’t think he was so bad early last year. I think his O line and rest of the offense were pathetic, and no QB would have looked good behind that mess. If Hass stays healthy for awhile, I think he can still surprise people for a year or two. And, if the O line gels soon, I think Losman can surprise people too.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
and I'm not betting anything on Whitehurst...
except that if he cuts his hair I am pretty sure he will lose his Sampson-like strength.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Very concise and convincing.
But at this point I won’t be discouraged with whoever ends up starting.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
I haven't paid much attention this off-season
I didn’t realize that “the story” had Losman and Whitehurst so far apart in terms of potential. The front office paid a premium to get Whitehurst, but I saw that as a new front office getting fleeced in negotiations more than a signal of abiding commitment to a player. They clearly aren’t committed to Whitehurst for any real length of time. That to me says more about how they view him than the price they paid. So they didn’t give Whitehurst a more typical 3 yr. extension and then went right out and signed Losman to a low-risk/medium-to-high reward deal. That suggests to me that they value the two somewhat similarly at the outset. Then of course, other than Beck as the starter, Prime Minister Pete Nice has not announced a pecking order.
Losman is enough of a threat to play on his first round pedigree alone that if all they really needed was a guy to hold a clipboard they could have signed some random Jamie Martin-type journeyman schmuck and saved themselves the controversy. Although Pete would have a difficult time installing either Whitehurst or Losman over Beck as the week 1 starter, and selling that to the fan base, I think he’s serious enough about competition for the primary backup job.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
He might be serious enough, but I think this undersells what is at stake with Whitehurst
Carroll/Schneider have staked some reputation by trading draft value for him. And unless his potential completely evaporates before their eyes in camp, there will be incentive not to hobble his confidence by making him the #3 emergency QB on gamedays. There is none of that risk with Losman.
by lemonverbena on Jul 31, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
There's also the fact
that Losman’s made a reputation as an arrogant, uncoachable jerk, while people don’t have that perception of Whitehurst.
by The Ancient Mariner on Jul 31, 2010 7:27 AM PDT reply actions
Losman's Reputation
Mike Williams may have passed Losman a slice of that ol’ humble pie. The nutritional value of which is reputed to brighten the eye and adjust the attitude. We shall soon see as the curtain goes up on training camp. Nice to feel excited again, in any case. So unlike last year when the Hawks where under the guidance of Jim Janus Mora and Tim color-me-corporate- gray Ruskell.
by broadbill birdwatcher on Jul 31, 2010 11:37 AM PDT reply actions
You were way less excited a year ago than now?
I worry because I keep running across parallels in attitudes and personnel (coaching and player) between this year and last, showing our optimism to be potentially hollow.
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Yes, we have no pass rush today.
And our QB is fragile and throws too many change ups. And our OL is still a big question
mark and etc. But summer is spring in football land, and I’m optomistic because we had our first good draft since 2005. I worry about Pete’s rah-rah style, but I have a hunch that the players will trust him, and be more motivated. I have an unabashed hunch that this year’s Seahawks will be a competitive, fun to watch, almost .500 team. If not, well, yes, my optimism will leave a bitter taste, go hollow and otherwise implode. Meanwhile, let’s get the ball to Tate.
by broadbill birdwatcher on Jul 31, 2010 5:14 PM PDT reply actions
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