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Why It Made Sense to Sign J.P. Losman (And why it will make sense to cut him)

Pete Carroll established his coaching philosophy before joining USC. Whittled down to one word, it would be "competition." Players competed at USC, scads of talented players for every one spot. The NCAA enforces no roster limitations and Carroll's Trojans fielded huge, hundred-plus rosters. In that way, competition was almost inherent. USC had huge resources and recruiting power and freshman could outplay former four-start recruits. Roster turnover was endemic to both Carroll and USC football; is endemic to college football.

That emphasis on competition is not as easy in the NFL. Players are employees instead of students. Contracts complicate things. Roster limits complicate things. The collective bargaining agreement complicates things.

The Seahawks could not field a hundred players, open every position to competition and start fresh with strictly the best, hardest working, hungriest players playing. It could and did successfully translate the spirit of Carroll's coaching philosophy. It did that through roster turnover. Instead of a cattle call style audition like a college camp, it held almost continuous auditions and kept some players almost continuously on the bubble.

It could not do that with every position and that is one very good reason Seattle has stuck with J.P. Losman. Though Losman is by no means an accomplished NFL veteran, he is nevertheless rare. Seattle will not happen upon too many free agents with Losman's tools. So, once signed, Seattle was somewhat vested in Losman. Quarterback is not a position one can sign, pit against his peers and cut or keep based on a few days of slamming pads. Quarterback ability is only fully revealed through game action. Seattle saw something it liked in Losman and unlike other positions, it couldn't just put him through his paces and figure if he sank or swam.

Losman has not sank or swam or even barely taken the field. He attempted five passes in week one. He played poorly and has not played since. But he's still around. Will he make the final roster? I doubt it. Here's why:

Seattle has assembled a shadow roster: To paraphrase John Schneider, part of Seattle's high turnover is getting people in, allowing them to learn the basics and keeping them on speed dial in case things go south. Being a quarterback, Losman would need the most time to get up to speed. Seattle has kept Losman around because it wants him as ready as possible, even if it now knows he will not make the team. He then becomes part of the shadow roster, not in camp but also not totally green if re-signed.

Losman is not in-demand: Losman spent last season out of the NFL. That speaks volumes. He has spent the off-season and preseason with the Seahawks. Another team can not sign and play him and expect him to be ready. Seattle can not be sure another team will not sign him anyway, but if the team was looking for a player that they could sign, coach up, cut and feel fairly secure he would be available in a pinch, it couldn't have picked a much better candidate than J.P. Losman.

Seattle needed competition for Charlie Whitehurst: Whitehurst is Matt's competition, but who pushes Charlie? See, everyone knew Hasselbeck might run away from the pack. He is a former Pro Bowl quarterback, right? And if he did, Whitehurst would no longer be competing against Matt, and without another capable arm, he would be the uncontested number two. That's bad, especially within a philosophy of competition. Losman was signed to push Whitehurst and he has, if only through sheer physical presence, throughout training camp. Remember when reports swirled about how Whitehurst was losing ground to Losman? Ye-aah.

The nightmare scenario is just that: What if Matt goes down? What if Whitehurst is injured in the same game? What if the team plane is overrun by venomous snakes? There's a lot of ways to lose a game. Picking out something particularly horrific and unlikely is like fearing ghosts and foregoing cancer screenings.

Coaches are notoriously conservative and no coach ever, ever wants to face the nightmare scenario. Luckily, few do. And when they do, well, they lose. Then the team picks up the pieces, maybe signs a free agent and is not much better or worse off than if they played their third string quarterback.

Seattle does not have a pure backup or a pure developmental quarterback, it has Charlie Whitehurst: Frame it however he wants, John Schneider will never convince me to include Whitehurst as part of the Seahawks draft class. He is a veteran. He is nearing thirty. He may have big hurdles to clear, big as any rookie, but he must clear them quicker and more skillfully because he is experienced and because he has less time. Seattle needs Whitehurst to step up now. He is not only the potential quarterback of the future, he is the starter if Matt is injured. Seattle doesn't have a Billy Volek or a Mark Brunell and also doesn't have a Nate Davis or a Colt McCoy. It has Whitehurst, and Whitehurst must be both Davis in potential and Volek in preparation.

Denver retained only two quarterbacks in 2008: Mike Shanahan typically retains two quarterbacks. Bates is his protege.

Seattle might retain Losman. Old habits die hard, and I figure Carroll gets the final say. There is a solid even convincing argument that Seattle will not keep two quarterbacks and should not keep two quarterbacks. We shall see.

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The fact that scares me is not Matt's health

rather, it is Charlie’s. Assuming Matt’s gonna miss some games, Whitehurst has to takeover the team for a while. And when’s he starting, he’s body’s gonna be a target to the defense all day long. I know that his body is fresh, but how much can he take from a first defense? Can he handle sacks and pressure and still adjust to the higher amounts of toll he will take, because he IS the emergency plan

I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus

by EequalsMc2 on Aug 30, 2010 9:18 PM PDT reply actions  

G. Tate

Played it in HS and threw a few passes in college. Plus, he can run, and if both QBs are down…..

by stufr on Aug 31, 2010 4:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Deion Branch

He’s been considered an “emergency QB” for awhile now. Hopefully that’ll quell the “Trade/Cut Branch” talk.

by J.L. White on Aug 30, 2010 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting and very good article....

I think this makes it apparent that PC and JS did a good job with the formation of the roster overall and specifically with the QB’s. As John said- keeping Losman this entire time keeps him off of other teams (even if someone else did want him) and also leaves him with a good idea of the playbook and system when he is cut and if/when he is re-signed if/when Matt or Charlie gets hurt. I believe this was their plan all along- to keep 2 QB’s as long as Matt stayed healthy through the preseason- otherwise we would have seen Seattle draft a young QB at some point in the draft which obviously they did not.

In regards to EequalsMc2- I think as soon as Matt gets injured, if he does, Seattle signs another QB (probably Losman) for the next game…you have to. You cannot enter a NFL game with 1 active QB- would be a quick ticket to a firing should that QB go down.

by sdoebele on Aug 30, 2010 9:33 PM PDT reply actions  

Seahawks Shadow Roster

Is either my next Fantasy Football team name, or what I’m going to refer to Field Gulls if injuries pile up again this year.

by Surf Hawk on Aug 30, 2010 10:26 PM PDT reply actions  

I like this.

It makes sense.

Wouldn’t it have made even more sense to train at least one more QB, then?

by Chirp on Aug 30, 2010 10:34 PM PDT reply actions  

For some reason I see Matt Leinart

on this team soon. I don’t know why but I just feel it coming.

Punks jump up to get beat down.

by Lo Pann on Aug 30, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope it doesn't happen

but they would need to cut one QB so we may be able to pick up Skelton or hall.

Punks jump up to get beat down.

by Lo Pann on Aug 30, 2010 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

If we lose both Matt and Whitehurst...

It doesn’t really matter for the rest of the season. So Cut Losman, hope for the best, and if we have to pick someone off of the trash heap, it won’t really matter. Season Over!

by coug111 on Aug 30, 2010 10:56 PM PDT reply actions  

Exactly

Hate to lose a young and promising player at another position just to keep Losman around. Why cut someone useful just to protect yourself against an unlikely scenario?

by J.L. White on Aug 30, 2010 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

WRONG!

PC could not just add and drop players like raw commodities. The entire basis of this article is invalid. He, like all college coaches, had to deal with a scholarship limit – 85. That means he had to get in good players, and once in he was committed to them to an extent not unlike the NFL. He could not have “hundreds” run through the system.

And that does not take into account that PC started winning mid way through the first year he was there, not enough time to do the “I’m a great recruiter, I win because I only get the best” schtick. This was his record:

2009 9-4-0
2008 12-1-0
2007 11-2-0
2006 11-2-0
2005 12-1-0
2004 13-0-0
2003 11-1-0
2002 11-2-0
2001 6-6-0

Prior to that USC was a barely over .500 team for many years. Stop with the “He’s a good recruiter” crap and acknowledge he understands how to build a winning organization. (And don’t even talk about the NCAA violoations – none of that was associated with anything PC did.)

I couldn’t get past reading the rest of the article after that terrible analogy.

by SpellStitchedHawk on Aug 30, 2010 11:01 PM PDT reply actions  

I frankly don't give a flying crap what Carroll did at USC

I think John’s analogy was more about college football in general, not about specific policies that Pete employed while at USC. Even if John was completely wrong about how Carroll ran things in college, I feel the rest of the article was completely valid about the current situation with the Seahawks quarterbacks.

I don’t see anything in this article that completely refutable or erroneous; nothing to get anyone’s panties twisted over, anyway.

by J.L. White on Aug 30, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Explain exactly what part of this opening paragraph you are disagreeing with.
Pete Carroll established his coaching philosophy before joining USC. Whittled down to one word, it would be “competition.” Players competed at USC, scads of talented players for every one spot. The NCAA enforces no roster limitations and Carroll’s Trojans fielded huge, hundred-plus rosters. In that way, competition was almost inherent. USC had huge resources and recruiting power and freshman could outplay former four-start recruits. Roster turnover was endemic to both Carroll and USC football; is endemic to college football.

by John Morgan on Aug 31, 2010 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know this is late... work happens

The point was the underlying assumption from the above is that PC succeeded at USC because of the talent he recruited, not because of talent at coaching.

Either
A: PC brought in one heck of a freshman class and all the walk ons were stars to go 11-2
or
B: PC taught his players how to win first, then could bring in the talent.

USC was not “the place to play” in Pete’s first year and after a 6-6 season, not really the second.

Your implication is that Pete only won because he could bring in tons on top tier talent and that all the walk on talent was exceptional – i.e. better than other team’s scholarship players. That may help explain later years but not his first 2 or 3.

by SpellStitchedHawk on Sep 1, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

So I think pretty much all of John's writing is awesome

but I decided to try and figure out why your reaction is so scathing. Even after putting my critic’s hat on, your disgust seems misplaced. The “recruiting schtick” was just a statement encompassing all of Carroll’s time at USC; On the whole/over time, PC had a lot of recruiting power. And you also seem to be saying that Pete’s ability to recruit didn’t affect the school’s success… …? Even if the analogy is too loose, it doesn’t invalidate the rest of these points.

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Aug 31, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think his writing is great too...

That’s why I frequent this site. Maybe it was because I’m tired of hearing the PC only won because he is a great recruiter crap one too many times and that is what the opening statement sounded like it was implying.

by SpellStitchedHawk on Sep 1, 2010 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, of course, how foolish of him.

Nobody plays except the guys on scholarship! How could you forget that, John?

Thank you, Walter Jones.
Thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.

by thebyron on Aug 31, 2010 5:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

WRONG

85 is the scholarship limit, not the limit on the players he can have on the team

by coug111 on Aug 30, 2010 11:06 PM PDT reply actions  

Yesterday, I commented about a team's QB roster makeup

that exactly mirrors your analysis in this article. (And no, I’m not inferring plagiarism, no way.)

I just feel goddamn smart when I formulate an opinion (on my own) that also happens to match someone’s professional analysis. Maybe sports writing IS in my future!

(not holding my breath)

"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM

by Nick Andron on Aug 31, 2010 7:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Also, I also happen to share the opinion that we shouldn't keep Losman on the roster

Or pick up a #3 QB unless they, for some reason, are worth picking up for the future (if a team cut a promising rookie, etc).

"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM

by Nick Andron on Aug 31, 2010 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I basically agree with the points in this post

It is possible that they go to the 53 with two quarterbacks. But still, my best guess is the team keeps three. For two reasons:

1. Hasselbeck’s injury history. When/if Matt goes down, suddenly they are one hit on a virtually untested backup away from having a position player take snaps in that game. Nightmare scenario yes but it’s still the most important position on the team.

2. The emergency QB rule. It’s there for a reason; so that teams can keep an emergency backup at the most important position without using one of the 45 active gameday roster spots. Eight players have to be inactive every week. One of them may as well be at the one position on the team that is allowed to dress in case of injuries to the position.

The advantage to keeping Losman at QB3 is that he knows the playbook, but I hope they cut him and pick up someone with a discernible amount of upside.

by lemonverbena on Aug 31, 2010 9:15 AM PDT reply actions  

All of this is sound

But when I read “Seattle does not have a pure backup or a pure developmental quarterback,” I can’t help thinking that they used to have a pure developmental quarterback. His name was Mike Teel, and they ditched him to sign Losman. And they did this without Schneider and Carroll having seen Teel for one day in camp. It makes me feel a little better that the Patriots, who know a thing or two about player evaluation, also deemed Teel unworthy. But he’s the type teams normally keep around as a #3, but the Seahawks decided they’d rather have Losman, and now they are likely to have neither.

by Suburban Shocker on Aug 31, 2010 10:29 AM PDT reply actions  

I think they ditched Teel because they didn't like him

Or that Losman was a better fit, or….something. I don’t know. Considering Teel is still a free agent, though, points to the real possibility that no one in the NFL is that serious about him.

by J.L. White on Aug 31, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please...just stop with the Teel love.

His chances of NFL success are vanishingly small.

inside of a dog it's too dark to read.

by shams on Aug 31, 2010 10:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Exactly.

It’s not “Teel love”; it’s a willingness to give a roster spot to someone who, maybe, someday, possibly, could become something. A flyer on a little bit of upside. That’s what teams normally do with the #3 QB spot. And if not Teel, then it could have been Mike Reilly, who was on the roster for about 11 minutes this summer.

by Suburban Shocker on Aug 31, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

One other factor

Is that somebody has to run the scout team offense. Usually that’s what your #3 is doing every week. If you don’t have a #3 on the active roster, you almost have to use a spot on the practice squad for a guy who can dress up like Sam Bradford and throw the ball to Earl Thomas. Or maybe that’s part of Pete Carroll’s job.

Anyway, the benefit of the practice squad is that obviously you can sign that guy whenever you want in case you need him up for a week or two. Provided he has time to learn the Seahawks offense on the side. It’s a lot to ask a practice-squad-caliber player, I’m sure. And the downside is that he could be signed away at any time if another team feels like being annoying.

by busplunger on Aug 31, 2010 12:48 PM PDT reply actions  

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