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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

How Jim Mora Ran Practice and How Pete Carroll Does Not

Remember Tiger Mountain?

Maybe you do. Maybe you have lost that neural pathway. I wouldn't blame you.

Jim Mora challenged his players to sprint up Tiger Mountain. It made for headlines like "Chasing Mora to the top," and "Seahawks coach Jim Mora finds new mountain to conquer."

Sprinting up Tiger Mountain was Mora's idea of a novel way to promote conditioning. We may never know if it is a good exercise or one that wins publicity but damages bodies. Sprinting up Tiger Mountain represented Mora's attitude towards training camp: intensity, bracing exercise and the strong surviving. Drills were hard fought. Players clashed with players. Scrimmages were intense even scrappy. There was a sense that practice was the job and play the wage. Spun just right, that sounds almost noble. Guys working hard. Guys competing. Guys giving their all just to make it.

Pete Carroll runs practice very differently. I have never heard him say it in so many words, but Carroll seems to share a belief with former head coach Chuck Knox: that intense, punishing practices between teammates only doubles the damage to the team.

Mora whipped everyone into a frenzy. Practice was full of teammates beating down teammates. Full speed pass rush drills and blocks that produced resounding "pops!" Pops and scraps and the sounds of collisions and struggle filled the VMAC. I mined last season's training camp reports and the evidence is everywhere.

We had this:

MATCHUP OF THE DAY

Right tackle Ray Willis vs. left defensive end Lawrence Jackson. These two tangled twice, and Willis came out on top each time – literally.

First, they collided on a running play and Jackson had to leave the field to have his left ankle taped. Later, in the one-on-one pass rush drill, Willis flung Jackson to the ground. Before the tussle could escalate, teammates separated the two.

"It’s just football," Jackson said. "Nothing serious. Hopefully it’s not a regular thing, but things like that just happen in football."

And this:

RB Justin Forsett put a lick on LB David Hawthorne during one-on-one blitz pick-up drills. It was the kind of hit that makes you stop and take a step back, not just as an observer, but as a blitzer because that's what happened to Hawthorne. Forsett knocked Hawthorne backward into offensive coordinator Greg Knapp, no small feat since Hawthorne's got a reputation for his hitting ability.

And this:

Pass rush drills were interesting today. Rob Sims and Cory Redding went against each other for the first time, and it was worth the price of the ticket. Sims won the first one, basically shucking an off-balanced Redding to the ground. But Redding came back during the second battle to get the best of Sims.

Sims really has looked solid during first few days of camp, and is playing with a lot of confidence.

The media tends to spotlight big hits, but this isn't a second hand recounting. I was there. Mora's practices were full of players getting leveled, players getting knocked around and players scrapping. It was his style. It was entertaining. It was ascending Tiger Mountain again and again.

Carroll emphasizes what I call situational drills. Instead of endless smashing and bashing and proving who's the alpha dog, teammates are working with teammates in simulated game situations. Linebackers work in groups of three coordinating gap containment. No contact. Defensive lineman practice stunts against other defensive lineman. Defensive backs adjust to route combinations and perfect their spacing. No one is popping one another. No one is winning. The goal is coordination, timing and efficiency. Awareness. Preparedness. There is no emphasis on killing each other. No emphasis on overmatching your teammate. Players aren't competing for top billing in Farnsworth's Matchup of the Day. Practice is the preparation and Sunday the ascent.

The human body is not impervious. You can break it down and it will build back up, but it takes something away. If you press and press, something breaks that doesn't build back up. Every intense collision risks injury, and the more often a player risks injury, the more injuries the player will eventually suffer. Many injuries, like high ankle sprains and dislocated shoulders, increase the chance of recurrence by fundamentally changing the structure of the injured person's body. Ligaments attenuate. Muscles tear. Football is a brutal sport. Taking a half-season's worth of collisions out of training camp might just save Seattle from another season wracked by injuries.

It might not make headlines. It might not be noble in a working class way. It might not fulfill the three yards and a cloud of dust ideal of smashmouth football. But coordinating to win rather than competing to play is smart football, and forgetting Tiger Mountain might be the best move of the off-season.

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When you leave it all on the practice field,

you might not have much left in the tank for Sunday. Which might
explain some of the flatness we witnessed last year.

by broadbill birdwatcher on Aug 9, 2010 8:15 PM PDT reply actions  

Good stuff, John

One thing I’ve noticed too, is that although Mora’s TC may have been more physical, Carroll’s seems noticeably more spirited to me. Save for the Saturday AM practice I was at, I’ve not seen a team in years past that was more into, and enthusiastic about what’s going on.

by Catoblepas on Aug 9, 2010 8:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Doen Grant said that Mora

lost people last year due to a tough TC. Maybe that’s why they gave up the last month of the season.

Nonsense, Poopy-Pants!

by Lo Pann on Aug 9, 2010 8:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Do we have any idea how this compares to other teams?

Like – what teams run practice like this vs something more Mora-like?

by chrees on Aug 9, 2010 8:36 PM PDT reply actions  

Haha. Good question

Seen what’s going on in S.F. lately? Jesus. Ahmad Brooks – lacerated kidney. Scott McKilop – possibly lost for the season. Eric Heitmann – broken leg. Camp Singletary would appear to be quite heated.

by Catoblepas on Aug 9, 2010 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I read many reports last year that Camp Singletary was brutal

Full pads, full speed, full time.

I haven’t followed it this year, but I wouldn’t expect anything different. The injury list is enough to confirm that not much has changed.

Obviously, I’m more interested in how things are done in Indy, Baltimore, Green Bay, New England, and Pittsburgh, teams that have been successful year in and year out.

by SeahawksFanInNY on Aug 10, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder...

if the low/no contact practices perhaps play on a player’s implicit confidence or lack thereof. For instance, a player who lacks confidence perhaps has this reinforced by being knocked over, or the inverse happens with a cocky player. In the former, a player may simply give up, in the latter, perhaps a player gets lazy. Removing the reinforcement keeps explicit feedback up in the air, thus maintaining high levels of motivation.

Or whatever, I just like Carroll more anyways. Something about his stuttering is just so endearing.

by wyobo on Aug 9, 2010 8:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Increasing awareness and decreasing injury

A simple change, but a good one. I wonder what percentage of plays a player is not involved in a big hit? Most of them. In order to win and play well, you need to be good at all the other plays too, which involve awareness, technique, holding up your end away from the ball, and working together as a team. Pretty sure Mora’s never heard of Sun Tzu.

by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 9, 2010 8:48 PM PDT reply actions  

How different is it really?

Curry – concussion.
Hass – hamstring.
Carlson – oblique.
Stanback and that other Lb – torn Achilles
Spencer – leg

And so on.

I don’t mean to play devil’s advocate, but there seems to be plenty of injuries this year as well.

"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM

by Nick Andron on Aug 9, 2010 9:06 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

The problem with self-reported injuries is the lack of an objective standard.

Seattle could be reporting more injuries and holding out more players because of greater caution. Perhaps Curry or Carlson would have felt compelled to play under Mora.

by John Morgan on Aug 9, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

This strikes me as overly speculative.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for it to be true (and for the ‘Hawks to finally shake the injury bug), but Nick’s point is a good one and it seems that you’re reaching a bit here.

Thank you, Walter Jones.
Thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.

by thebyron on Aug 9, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.

Cheerfully withdrawn!

Thank you, Walter Jones.
Thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.

by thebyron on Aug 11, 2010 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

It might be a reach to correlate injury with camp intensity

But it is undeniable that this years camp has a very different and seemingly more laid back tone than last years from my personal experience.

I wish I’d known how to pick John out of the crowd – but then he probably wouldn’t have enjoyed geeking out with one of his fans.

by fender on Aug 10, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I talked to a couple people

It’s tough. I love talking to people, but it really was my job to pay attention.

by John Morgan on Aug 10, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Regardless of an objective standard, I'm inclined to believe any injuries reported in camp are legitimate

Because technically, teams don’t have to officially report any injuries. So if you’re going to report something, it probably isn’t minor (because if it is, why bother reporting it?)

"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM

by Nick Andron on Aug 10, 2010 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I suspect that injuries are basically random events within a narrow band of probability

So even though it’s pretty darned intuitive to think a more physical camp raises the likelihood of injury, it’s probably an overstatement simply because the likelihood is already so high.

I think the difference between a camp that emphasizes hitting over preparation is probably more in overall fatigue than actual injury. Basically, like Broadbill Birdwatcher said in the first reply. You leave it all on the practice field…

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Aug 10, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Injuries are only random, so much that they are random, within an environment that promotes injuries

If the NFL instituted a two-hand touch rule, injuries would dramatically decrease.

Injuries occur because of violent collisions: collisions with other players and collisions with the field. It might be next to impossible to predict which collision will cause an injury, what player is capable of surviving which collision, and so forth, but it’s not impossible to project that reducing the number of violent collisions should reduce the number of opportunities for injury.

By changing how practice is run, Carroll has reduced the number of violent collisions. We do not know that it will reduce injuries, at least not immediately, but by reducing that which causes injuries, it should reduce injuries.

by John Morgan on Aug 10, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

You report it to justify holding the player out of practice.

If Hasselbeck appears sparingly in a scrimmage for fans, you offer a reason. I don’t think that has any significance on how major or minor an injury is.

A team does not have to report injuries, but if the team wants to open 15 of its 20 practices to fans, and those fans are many of your best customers, you give them a reason why John Carlson or Aaron Curry is out of pads.

The injuries are legitimate. But the standard for what is a severe enough injury to be held out is subjective. I don’t know that Carroll has a lower standard than Mora did. I am only saying it’s possible (and so is the opposite). It’s self-governed.

by John Morgan on Aug 10, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

He got kicked in the leg or something.

It was unclear

"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM

by Nick Andron on Aug 10, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I second that!

This post deserves a ‘Rec’.

Red Bryant: surprise us!

by Misfit74 on Aug 9, 2010 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

In spring of 2009, I had a friend in Carolina who was a Falcon fan.

He seemed immature and brash so I was skeptical when he told me Mora was a complete douchebag. I saw him 8 months later and had to say “Man you were kinda right.” “Told ya so.”

Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...

by Cheddar28 on Aug 9, 2010 9:30 PM PDT reply actions  

But.....what about the dirtbags?

Where do they fit into this “player friendly” atmosphere >:/

7 picks for 7 quarterbacks in Draft 2011! EFF IT!

by Seatown_Sport_Head321 on Aug 9, 2010 10:33 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

There are ways to get your players into fighting shape

…and there are ways to get your players into fighting shape. We have four preseason games for these guys to get knocked around and test their conditioning and endurance in game situations. Beating the piss out of each other in training camp looks good for preseason hype, but that’s about it. Camp hype is just that, camp hype. At this point I’m more interested in starting the guys we intend to start on September 12. After the way the injury bug poisoned us in 2008 and sneaked up on us in 2009, am I complaining? No.

"Have a good time all the time" - Viv Savage, Spinal Tap

by HawksFanHernandez on Aug 10, 2010 2:43 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm so bummed about Curry's concussion.

He needed these off season camps to improve, gel with his team mates on the field and be mentored by Norton Jr.

Instead, he sat on the bench. And it doesn’t look like he’ll be off of it until pre-season actually starts.

Blah.

"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM

by Nick Andron on Aug 10, 2010 7:34 AM PDT reply actions  

Me, too.

It’s been long enough that it worries me that it was a real serious one. The kind that results in heightened concussion vulnerability moving forward. His heat-seeking missle style of pay may have been just an undisciplined rookie, but he moves a lot of mass very quickly and can be pretty ferocious. I hope it doesn’t hamstring his entire career.

by jacobstevens on Aug 10, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

The emphasis on timing and coordination leads me to ask:

How like Camp Holmgren is Camp Carroll? Beyond fan involvement and the showman quality of it. How are the drills similar? It was my understanding that Holmgren always stunted the play of the D to make the O look/feel better.

by DJ C-Raig on Aug 10, 2010 12:33 PM PDT reply actions  

Brutal practices only work when there's lots of depth.

And lots of rest. I love the situational drill aspect, as execution of fundamentals with perfect timing will make for a whole lot more results than smashing yourself against the rocks to become a preseason champion. Good call Mick.

Nice observation about Dallas’ “Camp Cupcake” as well. There will be plenty of opportunity to beat the crap out of your fellow human beings on Sunday, so rest up and learn execution so you can stay healthy enough to do so.

And no pulled groins this year, so a new conditioning staff gets their propers.

by bleedshawkblue on Aug 10, 2010 4:31 PM PDT reply actions  

I'd love to hear an honest opinion

on how the players feels about the difference between Mora & Carroll’s camps… and actually between Holmgren, Mora & Carroll’s camps…

rest up and learn execution

I know those are your words, but they seem to sum up the camp to me. It also seems like more of the Holmgren camp approach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI

Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!

by jubelthebear on Aug 11, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

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