Seahawks place G Max Unger on IR, cut CB Kennard Cox
This makes room for the recently re-signed G Mansfield Wrotto, as well as LB Leroy Hill, who is returning from suspension.
Additionally we released CB Ross Weaver from the practice squad to sign CB Cord Parks.
Adam Caplan also reports we worked out former Dolphins G Donald Thomas. Thomas started 12 games for the Fins last season but was cut this off-season.
over 1 year ago
Thomas Beekers
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Assuming Wrotto lines up at G to replace Unger....is he better as a G than as a T?
Because there won’t be a flotilla of TEs to help him out with interior line play.
by sideshow bob on Sep 14, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
That's one hell of a toe injury
If Unger is going on IR.
Didn't have to be much
If Unger doesn’t have much value over a replacement player (Wrotto) in the eyes of the FO, having Wrotto for the season may be worth more than Unger for a season less even just a couple games.
by SeahawksFanInNY on Sep 14, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Ya if Unger was going to miss 2 games. He isn't worth keeping on the active roster for the season.
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 14, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
And to add
Putting him on IR may cost less than cutting someone.
by SeahawksFanInNY on Sep 14, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
If I recall correctly
It was a nagging toe injury that caused Ravens T Jonathan Ogden to retire a few years ago.
While toe injuries can take a very long time to heal and definitely preclude your effectiveness on the field,
I’m pretty skeptical that the severity and subsequent timetable would be known or expected such that this would be the value proposition. That is, I highly doubt this move is solely on account of the injury.
Which makes this kind of good news to hear. It’s not good news, but the good side of it is that the team recognizes he’s been struggling. I don’t know if it means his career as a Seahawk is in jeopardy, but maybe just tat he needs more time to develop as a pro. Wrotto’s had plenty more time even if he doesn’t have the same potential as a prospect.
by jacobstevens on Sep 14, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
To be clear...
…not the Ben Roethlisberger sort of predator. And I can’t say “the Arnold Schwarzenegger sort of predator” either because that type isn’t significantly different. I mean, you know, the type from the movies and stuff. Dreadlocks.
What about the unmanned drone MQ-1 "Predator"?
God, looking at the wiki for this, the US military just has to stop with the fucking acronyms. MALE (medium-alt, low endurance), UAVS (unmanned aerial vehicle system), controlled by a GCS (ground control station… really?),
Fans are typically idiots.
by The Typical Idiot Fan on Sep 14, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
As long as they don't eventually come up with the Mobile Utility Lunar Excavator sometime in
the next 400 years ala StarCraft II, then it’s not a problem.
They aren't UAVs anymore
They went to RPV (remotely piloted vehicles) and I think they changed to RPA (remotely piloted aircraft).
If you don’t change something than did you actually do anything?
Jeez, it's not like our o-line hasn't suffered enough
Did Unger’s toe just break completely off? Losing him for the rest of the year is another blow to the continuity of the line, as well as his progression as a pro guard.
This sucks….oh yeah, welcome back, Mansfield.
As above, it doesn't have to be much
If Unger were a superstar, he would have been much, much more likely to avoid IR.
by SeahawksFanInNY on Sep 14, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to be @!#$%# kidding me
First Hamilton takes out Okung and now this? How many years are we going to lose our starting lineman over and over and over?
sigh [takes deep breath]
At least Unger was one of our weaker lineman, so replacing him won’t be quite so hard as Okung. But man, oh man our continuity takes yet another hit.
You're acting like Unger was good.
Its quite possible Wrotto will be better.
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 14, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Based on recent history, Wrotto probably will be better
…but if that is the case why was Unger starting and Wrotto cut? Odd.
My guess is since the did want to keep line continuity.
And Unger has been there all preseason.
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 14, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
But if the coaching staff truly thought Unger sucked (and I'm not saying he does)
…after watching tape of his career and evaluating him in practice and preseason, then why was he starting ahead of Wrotto at all? And why cut Wrotto? Doesn’t make sense.
Clearly Unger has been having major issues in the NFL, but then why was he starting? Just because he was a high pick? What about “always compete?”
Because we needed to fill the other spots on the Line.
They were really close to cutting Locklear. Hamilton and Pitts got hurt. He won the battle of attrition.
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 14, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Unger yunger
I’m sure they figured they would lose more by cutting Unger, because they’d be losing four years worth of exclusive rights (under a rookie contract; assuming his contract was five years) for a player who still has a lot of potential.
Unger might be getting a bit too much flak here
But while I agree he was our weakest points, he was still a high draft pick. He needs his time developing, and if this means the FO is giving up on him then regardless of his current play, that sucks.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 14, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
He was drafted to replace Spencer as a Center.
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 14, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
But the guy who drafted him is gone
Who knows what Unger’s actual future with this team was, injury or no.
Exactly
His value was at Center. He is just a below average guard. And with Spencer finally getting some respect I don’t really see the need for Unger.
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 14, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Errr. Correction.
Need for Unger is the wrong term.
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 14, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
In the preseason I don't even know if we could say "below-average"
with the way he was getting blown back.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Sep 14, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Let us take a moment to remember Leonard Weaver
Seattle placed him on IR for his 2nd season, following a high ankle sprain in 2006. He probably could have returned, but his value as a player had to be multiplied by the fraction of games for which he’d be available (half? a third?) that season, and doesn’t necessarily reflect his long-term value. Weaver returned and played 30 games over the next two seasons.
This smells like one of those M's injuries we've seen the last few years...
Mike Sweeney, Carlos Silva, etc.
They might really not be happy with his play.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Sep 14, 2010 2:23 PM PDT reply actions
I guess Unger couldn't toe the line.
Yeah, I just said that.
/dick joke
by Bloof on Sep 14, 2010 2:25 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I am glad you are staying...abreast of the situation
by IslandHawk on Sep 14, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
talking about the NY Jets fiasco are we???
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Sep 14, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Heh -- I was actually referring to Bloof's avatar (icon) [above right in..uh..red]
Didn’t know about the NY Jets / female reporter thing until I just googled it. Wow.
That was terrible
I bet you feel like a heel.
Don’t you know that kind of cruelty is bad for the sole?
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 14, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
All these anatomy puns
are almost more than I can stomach.
by SmartAssCoug on Sep 14, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've got to hand it to you, you went with your gut and spoke your mind
But don’t let me bend your ear with puns as obvious as the nose on your face. Keep your chin up!
by J.L. White on Sep 14, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well played sir
I’ll get off your back and allow you to continue shouldering the burden.
by SmartAssCoug on Sep 14, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Wrotto Schmotto
Just because we resigned him doesn’t mean we’ll start him. I think they’ll sooner find a place on the line for Stacy Andrews or, uh, Chester Whatshisname.
Bad news about Unger. But based on the way he was getting trashed around here in recent weeks, maybe this isn’t the worst news.
I don't think the team will move Andrews or Pitts to Right Guard
I’d imagine the real competition for the position would be Wrotto or Ben Hamilton, unless I’m forgetting anyone (assuming Mike Gibson remains at LG).
You're right, and the job could be wide open
My personal preference is for Wrotto to get the job because Hamilton has looked pretty weak in the preseason….but I have no clue how to judge Andrews or Pitts as a guard. I’ll leave that to men much smarter than I.
Andrews
Andrews was pretty good as a RT but a disappointment as a Guard. He even says so himself. I think the plan would be to put our five best linemen on the field. That implies to me that the RG would be either Pitts, Wrotto or Locklear. I could see them installing Andrews as the RT with Locklear moving to RG. I would love to see Andrews at 6-7, 340 in the lineup. If they do not think Wrotto can start at RG why bring him back? So, we shall see on Sunday.
Hopefully the Seahawks' equipment manager didn't toss out Wrotto's old jersey
Whoever is in charge of sewing names onto the backs of player uniforms has made some pretty good coin so far this year with all the changes.
by sideshow bob on Sep 14, 2010 2:33 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
BREAKING NEWS: Seahawks sign Fullback Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala and Defensive End Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila
The team steward then awakens from his nightmare with a terrified scream, and discovers that he wet the bed.
by J.L. White on Sep 14, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe we could also grab Hoomanawanui off the Rams
To round out our Samoan-sounding roster
by sideshow bob on Sep 14, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Where have you gone, TJ Houshmandzadeh?
A team (that makes way too many player transactions) turns its lonely eyes to you.
I propose a nickname for the Hawks' OL
The T-1000. Previously seen morphing into dozens of different configurations as the bad guy in Terminator 2.
This makes me sad. I like Unger but this probably means that his tenure as a 'Hawk is going to end
after the season.
Yup, the Hawks' 2009 draft class is proving...underwhelming
Hopes were high, but sinking, due to some unfortunate circumstances:
- Unger’s struggles
- Curry’s struggles
- Courtney’s MS
- Nick Reed’s lack of size / strength / quickness
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2009/4/26/854843/seattle-seahawks-2009-draft-recap
It seems that Q/PM can certainly evaluate talent and definitely get the team prepared and coached better than previous regimes.
How did I not know that?!?!?
How bad is it? I assume it forced his retirement prematurely?
Hmmm… maybe I did know but spent too much of the past year drunk.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Sep 14, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
John mentioned it when he first learned about it but it didn't make much news.
I don’t think there was a post or anything. He was diagnosed right before the 08 season.
Curry didn't struggle much on Sunday
And Butler looks to be improved by a good deal compared to last season.
It may be a tad too soon to make any judgments about the 2009 draft (also don’t forget the trade we made that eventually netted us Earl Thomas).
I agree it is too early to write the draft class of 2009 off
There is a reasonable chance Curry may figure it out over time and become the menacing force we thought he might be given his hype and draft position, and that Butler may become a reliable big-play threat.
But I personally find it hard to deny that the class has underachieved to date.
There are many linebackers who outplayed Curry last year. Unger, although a starter, hasn’t played well, and Butler has had very few receptions (although a couple big ones).
Cameron Morrah is still slowly coming along, and Teel was cut by multiple teams.
'Roid Boy?
Cushing himself said he either didn’t or caught it from a toilet seat, so he must not have used.
True
Though sometimes a few late-round gems can help salvage a bad draft if the high-rounders don’t pan-out.
A super optimistic take
would be that Carroll and company felt a full year on IR spent in the weight room building strength for Unger might be helpful for him long term…and in the short term Wrotto or some other combination on the right side with Andrews/Locklear is an adequate replacement, if not an upgrade.
You are correct.
That is a super optimistic take.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Sep 14, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
If they put him on the Practice Squad he would be picked up by another team. This may be a win for everyone. Unger gets a year to learn and improve in the weight room. Alot of guys ned time to develop. He was pushed into the starting lineup on the O Line pretty quick. I don’t think they have given up on him at all. This move just improves our depth for next year.
I totally agree with this.
If I were queen I’d do it.
I do believe being placed on the IR automatically makes you ineligible from playing again during this season
Good; wasn't sure if there was some kind of loophole that would allow a player to return early
I wonder if Rod Woodson was put on the IR when he tore his ACL in 1995, because I do believe he returned to play for the Steelers in the Super Bowl that year.
That's what makes the story so cool.
They kept a roster spot for him all damn year.
inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
There's nothing "cool" about the Steelers
And Woodson did little to prevent the Cowboys beatdown.
Ah….good times.
I guess the FO was...Unger'ing for a reason to replace him!
Bahahahahahahaha!
by Coach Owens on Sep 14, 2010 2:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I will remain guarded in my optimism
But hopefully we’ll be going “wee wee wee” all the way to more than 5 wins!
by fender on Sep 14, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not worried.
He wasn’t exactly a stud out there, so I’d rather see Andrews or Pitts anyways. Nice to see Parks is sticking around.
Question
Who is the backup center?
Hamilton I presume?
But was it Unger beforehand?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
`
Jennings was given the role of backup long snapper at the beginning of the season after showing special teams coach Bruce DeHaven he was capable of handling the task last year.
I think this pretty much sums up Bruce DeHaven’s tenure here.
by BrianL on Sep 14, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
The jokes are easy - but you really do have to give Kelly props for taking the task seriously enough to peform the task without error.
It really isn’t as easy as it looks :)
Props to Jennings
You’re absolutely right.
And more evidence of Mora’s unparalleled stupidity. He used the situation to make fun of Jenning’s size, thinking that it was a self-effacing comment on the team’s preparedness that would amuse the media. But any non-lobotomized coach would have heaped praise on the player for being so versatile.
Mike Sando seems to think that Locklear will move to RG and Andrews will start at RT
Do you doubt me? BEHOLD!!!
Reading right to left, that puts Locklear at RG, but in his comment he says LG
Tweet more carefully, Sando!!!
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 14, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Reading Sando right to left...
Dleif no teg ot sdeen Swerdna. GL ta KO si Raelkcol fi — Gnuko, Sttip, Recneps, Raelkcol, Swerdna.
Actually makes more sense.
by Jason_D on Sep 15, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ah, Reverse Twittish.
Spoke that as a child.
I need a basic tutorial here...
Can someone speak to the skill set that makes a guard different than a tackle? My thought before was that if he’s an offensive lineman who isn’t good enough to be a tackle, he’s a guard, but surely it’s not that simple.
Basically, Guards are against bigger DTs, while Tackles are against faster DEs
Usually Guards are bigger and stockier than Tackles (who are usually taller). In many ways, I believe, the positions are interchangeable.
They're not interchangable.
The athletic skill sets are pretty different, it kind of mirrors the differences between defensive tackles (guards) and defensive ends (tackles).
They can be interchangeable.
Steve Hutchinson has the athletic ability to play LT at a high level. Some guards can play both positions. Generally, the RG is more strong than quick. But in a ZBS they are all quick. Locklear could easily play RG and with Andrews at RT we could have a strong right side to our O Line. Currently, we do not dominate anyone up front. Adding Andrews might change that.
Gonna call bs on this one.
Nope. Sorry, Hutch could not play LT at a high level, not even close. Hutchinson is a dominating in-line run blocker and a middling pass blocker. His skill set is PERFECT for driving back strong defensive tackles – but his poor foot speed and middling pass blocking skills mean he would get burned by the speed rushers that LTs have to deal with.
His value would plummet as a LT.
I'm a fan of the Ducks, Seahawks, Trailblazers, and... this elephant.
Hutch
When Hutch was with Seattle he was often mentioned as the backup to Walter Jones. Recently he as lost alot of foot speed and now is limited to playing guard. That wasn’t always the case.
I think they said Jennings was Walt's backup at one time, so...
that doesn’t mean much. (Jennnings, Lock, whoever)
This may mean nothing at all to anyone but me, but here's what I noticed looking at seahawks.com active roster:
1. Okung, Locklear and Polumbus are the only three linemen listed as tackles. Spencer is the only one listed as a center, and the rest are listed as guards. (Andrews, Dietrich-Smith, Gibson, Hamilton, Pitts, Wrotto)
2. By listed weight, 9 linemen are between 290 and 313. Andrews is 340.
3. Andrews is also the second tallest (6-7), just shy of Polumbus (6-8).
4. Average lineman age: 27. Okung is 22, Hamilton is 33. Pitts is 31. Everyone else is under 30.
5. Spencer and Andrews both went to Mississippi, and based on experience (S-6, A-7) I guess should have been just one year apart.
Of course a lineman’s skillset is more important than any of the points above, as far as position suitability. But there we are.
Good point.
The more I think about this, I’m pretty impressed with the 10 guys they’ve cobbled together, potential-wise. Is that crazy?
LOGAN. MANKINS.
Is one of the best guards in the league, demanding a trade from the Patriots, and only 28 years old. He would IMMEDIATELY be the best player on our offensive line. How much easier is Okung’s transition with a perrenial all-pro next to him?
He wants a massive extension so we’d have to pay him – but so what? Barring injury he’s a pro-bowl player for 3 years, solid for another 2-4 after that. GOLD.
He’s disgruntled and the Pats know whoever takes him is going to have to ante up – so we could concievably get him for a 3rd round pick!
Ohgodpleez
I'm a fan of the Ducks, Seahawks, Trailblazers, and... this elephant.
Scouts Inc. has him listed as the second-best guard in the league after Jahri Evans
Their breakdown:
“Mankins has been an ironman since entering the league in 2005, not missing a start during that period of time. Mankins plays with nastiness and a physical demeanor. He has good initial quickness off the ball and into blocking patterns. He does a good job of working to the second level. Mankins will get overextended at times in the run game, but does have recovery ability with good athleticism. He’s not an overpowering player at the line of scrimmage. He’s struggled versus power rushers when maintaining the depth of the pocket. Mankins will look to continue his excellent play in 2010”
I'm a fan of the Ducks, Seahawks, Trailblazers, and... this elephant.
In fact:
Scouts Inc. considers only 7 offensive lineman in the league to be more valuable! They are, in order of score:
Joe Thomas (LT)
Nick Mangold ©
Ryan Clady (LT)
Jake Long (LT)
Jahri Evans (G)
Michael Roos (LT)
and Marcus McNeil (LT)
We’re talking about a Top 10 talent on the offensive line! And he’s available! If you drafted a top 10 talent with a 3rd or 2nd round pick you would considered a genious – why not trade for one???
I'm a fan of the Ducks, Seahawks, Trailblazers, and... this elephant.
I don't believe this is consistent with Schneider's or the ZBS's philosophy
Speculating…
They don’t want to spend resources (salary & draft picks) on great linemen, or even really good linemen. They want average to above-average linemen, at moderate cost, who can execute zone blocking.
Okung?
If the last draft had been rich in 2nd-round OT talent, and they could have traded their top pick for two 2nd-rounders, I think they would have done so. But that wasn’t the scenario. They probably had Okung pretty high on their draft boards (e.g., a top 3 pick)— so it was the combination of opportunity and glaring need that incited them to make an exception and spend resources on a (potentially) great lineman.
Mankins ...
wants a long term deal. The Seahawks aren’t doing that this year. See Brandon Marshall and Vincent Jackson. I think we will be fine a guard with the guys we have got.
you're right, he does
But note the stuff above! Isn’t he worth it?
I'm a fan of the Ducks, Seahawks, Trailblazers, and... this elephant.
He's good.
But guard seems to be one of those positions where almost nobody will pay big money for one.
Used to be that way, but not anymore
Not when Hutch and compatriots rolled around in dough.
Dunno if the Pats’ll pay up tho. Not their style.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 15, 2010 4:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Marcus McNeil @LT & Mankins @ Guard
Anybody that wanted to buy a trip to the superbowl in an un-capped year…….There’s your big walt and hutch department of transportation right there.
And remember the last disgruntled holdout Patriot we traded the house for and then signed to a long term deal?
Don’t y’all knuckleheads know your sports voojoo?
Great move to IR Max, it frees up a roster spot without risking a developing talent to the marketplace. And it speaks volumes that Uncle Pete doesn’t want to ruin young talent to squeeze out a couple more wins. Another year in the weight room and the film room would be just what the Doctor ordered for Max.
Ain't no voojoo
A 1st round pick for an undersized skill player without a long track record of success is bad business
A 2nd-3rd round pick for a Top 10 difference maker that has more than a few years left and can elevate the play of those around him? Good business.
I agree with your points about the wisdom of stashing Unger for a year – unless it stunts his development
I'm a fan of the Ducks, Seahawks, Trailblazers, and... this elephant.
Didn't Minnesota establish the comp for a top-flight OG?
I’d give that to NE for Mankins.
I don't know if this was posted yet...
Unger will need surgery to repair what Carroll labeled "a severe turf toe." He was placed on injured reserve Tuesday and faces a three month-plus rehab following the surgery.































