From Start to Interception, Part 3
This drive broke down in a hurry.
1-10-DEN 16 (10:47) 22-J.Jones right guard to DEN 16 for no gain (52-J.Hunter).
Sean Locklear's struggles with Justin Bannan began on this play and would culminate in a holding penalty that cost Seattle a touchdown. On this play, we have three guilty parties, in order of guilt: Julius Jones, who runs into Chris Spencer's back and actually shoves him down; Locklear, who loses Bannan and allows the defender to appear in the hole; and Spencer, who doesn't achieve push on Ronald Fields.
Jones does not get zone blocking. As someone that's defended Jones, because he isn't a horrible rusher and because he compensates with blocking and receiving, I wish Seattle would send him somewhere he stands a chance of succeeding.
Anyway, Jones takes the hand off, runs to the right of Spencer, Bannan closes the hole, Jones runs into Spencer, pushes him aside causing Spencer and Field to fall and then is tackled from behind by Jason Hunter.
2-10-DEN 16 (10:10) (Shotgun) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short left to 11-D.Butler ran ob at DEN 12 for 4 yards.
This wasn't worth challenging, not for Carroll, not for McDaniels, but I do not think it was a catch. It's very, very close.
Robert Ayers flies off the blindside edge and powers Tyler Polumbus into Hasselbeck. He is very close to working under and around to sack Hasselbeck when Hasselbeck spins out of the pocket. The reverses the dynamic between Polumbus and Ayers and allows Polumbus to pancake Ayers. So much good still left in Hasselbeck, if only ...
Hasselbeck scrambles towards the left flat, directs and then tosses wide to Butler so that he's the only player capable of making the reception. Now, the tricky part: Butler does drag a foot and his other foot is planted. He does not however drag his foot and have control of the ball at the same time. By the time he has secured the pass, his left foot is off the turf and on its way to stepping out of bounds.
3-6-DEN 12 (9:44) (Shotgun) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short middle to 11-D.Butler to DEN 1 for 11 yards (23-R.Hill).
Curls, curls, curls, curls -- Hasselbeck pumps left towards Mike Williams and then sidearms it to a wide open Deon Butler over the middle. The line gives him good protection. The sidearm is completely unnecessary, but cool.
(the collapse)
1-1-DEN 1 (9:14) PENALTY on SEA-77-S.Andrews, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 1 - No Play.
Seattle attempts a quick snap before Denver can set. It doesn't work. Andrews jumps. Locklear follows.
1-6-DEN 6 (8:59) 20-J.Forsett left guard for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN NULLIFIED by Penalty. PENALTY on SEA-75-S.Locklear, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at DEN 6 - No Play.
Spencer pushes and turns Jamal Williams. If Williams is indeed still one of the best nose tackles in the NFL, this was a hell of a game for Spencer. Spencer's single block allows Andrews and Ben Hamilton to pull into the second level. Andrews turns and clears D.J. Williams and that is the final block needed for Forsett to streak through the middle and score the touchdown.
It's nullified. Locklear takes a barely legal bracket block and makes it outrageously illegal when he grabs Bannan by the jersey on his left shoulder and pulls him hard to the turf. Can't do that, Sean.
1-16-DEN 16 (8:54) (Shotgun) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass incomplete short left to 17-M.Williams.
Mario Haggan chucks Williams and Williams falls backwards attempting the reception.
2-16-DEN 16 (8:50) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short right intended for 83-D.Branch INTERCEPTED by 24-C.Bailey at DEN 4. 24-C.Bailey to DEN 4 for no gain (83-D.Branch). WATCH HIGHLIGHT
Watch at your own risk.
What can you say? Hasselbeck pumps and then lobs high for Branch in the right flat. Renaldo Hill shadows over top and Champ Bailey leaps high above the turf and picks the pass. On the one hand, you can't deny Bailey, that's a good play. On the other, an interception becomes easier and easier as the ball hangs and hangs. And Matt's pass had strings attached.
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John
On the interception did you notice anything that may have caused it other then a lack of velocity or too much hang time? I mean was he pressured, did he throw off the back foot, etc, etc? Great read btw.
7 picks for 7 quarterbacks in Draft 2011! EFF IT!
by Seatown_Sport_Head321 on Sep 21, 2010 1:23 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
There was still quite a window there before the safety could get there, and that was with the velocity he did throw it with.
What he was seeing, I guess was Branch above and outside Bailey. Maybe no YAC but getting inside the 5 yard line.
by jacobstevens on Sep 22, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
There wasn't anything physically wrong with the throw
It was not a weak throw, didn’t have too much hang time or anything else. Matt threw the ball exactly the way he had to throw it to get the ball to Branch and over Bailey. If Bailey was standing still, the ball would have dropped right down to Branch over him. Of course he didn’t stand still and picked it off.
It was an ill-advised throw, because Bailey was close enough to Branch that he could back up, jump and get to the pass.
Thowing it harder or with less arc on it wouldn’t have helped. There was a guy behind Branch as well.
It was simply a poor decision. Branch was not open. There wasn’t any way to make this throw. He appeared to be open in space for a split second, but there just wasn’t any way to drop the ball in there.
Matt says as much afterwards, he said the best decision would have been to throw it into the 5th row. On the other pick he threw when trying to hit Carlson, that throw was week because he couldn’t step into it (there was a defender hitting him as he released it). Matt admitted that as well, that he didn’t have a good grip and didn’t step into the throw.
Two weeks in a row receivers have been stopped at the 1 (Williams last week, Butler Sunday)
We obviously need taller receivers with longer arms.
In all seriousness, I am working on an article chronicling how early/how critical Hasselbeck’s interceptions have become. He ended last season the same way he started this season – with an INT. Now in week 2 he throws a huge INT and had two more in store.
I’m going back to 2008, because this was clearly when the decline started.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
While you're busy writing this, why not look at his stats with and without Jim Zorn
I’m surprised none of you guys are talking about this. When was Matt’s last good year? 2007. When did Zorn leave? Jan. 2008.
It’s all about Zorn.
Hogwash
He didn’t have his greatest year, but he wasn’t “terrible”. He missed 4+ games after his leg got rolled against the Vikings, but he wasn’t “terrible”. I’ve watched about every Seahawks’ game since 1976 and I’ve seen terrible.
He was performing poorly prior to and after his injuries
As soon as he got back from injury he promptly threw 3 INTs and fumbled against the Packers.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
Hasselbeck threw 9 INTs in 2005
He threw 7 by week 4, including the very first play against the Giants.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
There were other factors
No Hutch, offensive line in disarray, and no running game. Plus, he recovered in 2007 and had a good year.
Hutch has been gone for 5 seasons
How much longer is this going to be an excuse? Seneca played with that same o-line in 2006 and performed respectably (before he threw away the Niners game).
This has nothing to do with Zorn and this is grasping for straws instead of admitting he’s old and broken down.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
In 2006 he hadn't been gone for 1 season
It’s not an excuse now, it was then.
How is it grasping for straws...
…to point out that the running game has been dismal since 2006 and the O-line has never been the same? They’re valid points. They don’t completely excuse Hasselbeck, no, not to the extent that some fans want it to, but they are valid points and they have their place in the pie chart of blame.
It's grasping for straws when you are saying Hasselbeck
Has been poor because Zorn has left, that’s grasping for straws. That’s an absurd argument. It’s not a causal relationship.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
Why, because you say so?
I’m sure there are several factors that have contributed to his lesser QB performance. I never said Zorn was the only one. Zorn, however, is the only one I can think of that explains inferior decision-making.
How can you prove that?
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
He didn't make a bad decision to throw to Branch
He made a bad pass. It’s not impossible for most quarterbacks to fit a pass between a corner and a safety. Hasselbeck lobbed it up and it was picked. He lobbed it, presumably, because he can’t fit it into a window most other quarterbacks can.
I disagree
He made a bad decision, he said that himself and coach Pete agreed. There was no way to get the ball in there. Arm strength didn’t have anything to do with that. He had to get the ball behind Bailey and in front of Branch. It was an impossible throw.
Whitehurst could've made that throw twice
from his knees, holding a clipboard in the other hand with a drawing of a pony on it
by B.B.Finnegan on Sep 21, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't even talking about Zorn...
…nor was Lordtd at that last level, we were going over the other factors?
Besides, just because the influence of Zorn (and Holmgren, for that matter) can’t be proven or falsified, can’t be broken down into X’s and O’s, doesn’t mean they’re irrelevant.
Also, it wasn't just Hutch.
We lost Hutch and Toebeck that same year, both of whom were pro-bowlers in 2005. The running game went to pot, and the QB got hurt and didn’t play as well.
In any event, why not look at Zorn’s impact? If your argument about his decline is based on logic, how would the introduction of other data hurt it?
This came out too snarky.
I’m legitimately serious, what would your process for finding this data be?
You can't.
It’s difficult enough to qualify.
I don’t look at Zorn because there is no way to prove or falsify the argument.
And I can concede this point
But asking about it is not an attempt to avoid “admitting he’s old and broken down.” Those things aren’t related.
I simply think his decision making has declined and that’s a possible explanation.
don't forget
Matt’s a big Celtics fan perhaps their winning of the 2008 NBA Finals also contributed to his downfall as a QB.
It’s all about the Celtics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 21, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
You're still on the Zorn thing?
I’m sorry but losing your QBs coach despite being a veteran is not a legitimate argument for his decline.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
It is a legitimate argument for poor decision-making
It’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation.
There are a lot of people here that seem to want to blame everything on Matt’s inferior arm strength, and I just am not convinced that is the issue all of the time.
From what I’ve seen, a lot of his trouble is simply crappy decisions, rather than a weak arm. That doesn’t make sense to me. An aging QB should get smarter, even if his arm gets weaker. In 2008,2009 and this year he seems to be making a lot of lousy decisions. There are some bad throws, but I see more ill-advised throws than bad throws.
Do you have a better explanation? Why would you expect his decision-making to get worse over time? The best explanation I can think of is Zorn. I think overall he made better decisions when Zorn was around.
You gotta be joking. How is that legitimate? Matt Hasselbeck is a double-digit veteran
He’s not just going to forget everything Zorn supposedly taught him after 6 years. Crappy decisions are very possible as a result of a weak arm. When you have a weak arm it affects the decisions you are physically capable of making. Instead of making the necessary medium range throw to convert a first down you’re stuck as Captain Checkdown.
There is a better explanation, it’s called natural decline.
Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.
This really doesn't make sense
Decline is an explanation for decreased arm strength, throwing into coverage has nothing to do with that. Jake Locker can throw into coverage as well as Matt can.
Decisions are made in your head. The result of those decisions are executed by your body.
This argument would be more entertaining if you’d actually read my posts first and then reply. I’ve never said he’s got a strong arm or that his skills aren’t declining. I only suggested that some of his poor decision-making could be the result of lesser coaching. Not sure why you’d get riled up about that.
It does make sense
if you take into account that the limited arm strength is part of the reason the coverage is there. He may be making the same decisions now as he did 2+ years ago, when he could zip the ball into a smaller window. Now, however, the additional time it takes for the pass to reach his target allows the defense to converge on the receiver.
Additionally, if the secondary isn’t respecting that he can throw the ball down field accurately, the DBs can sit on the shorter routes, further limiting the window he has to make his passes, further shrinking his passing options.
by SmartAssCoug on Sep 21, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
This sentence doesn't make sense
“When you have a weak arm it affects the decisions you are physically capable of making.”
When you have a weak arm, it affects the throws you can make. It doesn’t affect your decisions. If you are delusional, and cannot assess your own arm strength, that affects your decisions. Most people don’t make decisions with their arms. They may execute the decisions with their arms, but they don’t make them there.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter because it’s off topic. I will absolutely concede that there are throws he can’t make, and that DBs for other defenses know this. However, it’s silly that for some reason on this particular site, that is the reason for every bad throw he makes. I only suggested that sometimes there is another reason, and SS got his panties in a bunch.
Matt made crappy throws his first year here as well, and many throughout his career.
I would argue that the INT against SF, and the one to Bailey in the Denver game had nothing to do with arm strength and were instead bad decisions. I think he’s made a lot more of those since Zorn left, and I think he made a lot of those his first year here.
Spencer and Andrews
I thought Chris Spencer and Stacy Andrews (aside from the costly false starts) had realy nice games. And to a lesser extent Ben Hamilton.
There seemed to be a lot of room to get to the second level against that 3-man front.
Unger seemed to get bounced around when trying to block guys; Andrews seems to get to them and stick.
I'm worried about the timing with Matt and Carlson.
Seneca seemed to have better chemistry with Carlson. I guess it could just be Matt declining, but this seems to be a bit more than that.
maybe
because he could be lousy in pass protection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 21, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Spencer becoming a force? We always thought he coulda, woulda, shoulda.
by broadbill birdwatcher on Sep 21, 2010 3:07 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
well played
sir.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 21, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Locklear too
threw someone to the turf when the Squawks were in the redzone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 21, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions

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