Defending the Very Short Field

by John Morgan on Sep 21, 2010 3:49 PM PDT

1-10-SEA 13 (5:04) (Shotgun) 8-K.Orton pass short middle to 27-K.Moreno to SEA 8 for 5 yards (51-L.Tatupu, 57-D.Hawthorne).

Three seconds into the play, a relative eternity in the red zone, Kyle Orton sidesteps tepid pressure created by Raheem Brock and Red Bryant, and finds Knowshon Moreno wide open. Moreno receives before being tackled by Lofa Tatupu and David Hawthorne.

Zone defense everybody.

2-5-SEA 8 (4:17) (Shotgun) PENALTY on DEN-8-K.Orton, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 8 - No Play.

2-10-SEA 13 (3:59) (Shotgun) 8-K.Orton pass incomplete short left to 84-B.Lloyd.

Seahawks rush five ... or four. Junior Siavii stumbles out of the blocks and falls to the turf. Seahawks rush four, send six into coverage. Orton cocks and fires and throws it well behind Brandon Lloyd. It's possible that Kentwan Balmer tipped the pass.

3-10-SEA 13 (3:55) (Shotgun) 8-K.Orton pass short middle to 19-E.Royal for 13 yards, TOUCHDOWN. WATCH HIGHLIGHT

Seahawks line up with four down lineman, but drop Brock into a hook zone over the middle. Seattle has eight defenders in coverage. Eddie Royal runs right and behind Roy Lewis then angles back in and flashes free behind Lewis, above Brock, to the left of Babineaux and in front of Tatupu. He catches and rolls in for the score.

Zone defense everybody!

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Zone defense must die

I hope it becomes obsolete, mainly because we run it so often.

Mo Johnston finally fired. Let the house cleaning and road to success begin.

by SSreporters on Sep 21, 2010 4:06 PM PDT reply actions

And so poorly.

by Bildo on Sep 21, 2010 4:35 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions

Don't think it ever will.

The league simply doesn’t have the men to run man coverage all the time. Not with rules designed for scoring. CB is I think the 3rd highest paid position, but that’s a result of the heightened value of top CBs on account of their rarity, not an indication of the value of the position overall relative to WR. WR as a position often gets the better athletes, because it holds more fame, glory, money, and arguably, importance.

So the league doesn’t have the men, and probably never will. Soccer, basketball and probably other live-action rock-moving team sports, also still employ zone. Man is risky. Less talent or lesser execution, even so much as a slip, generally holds more risk of being burned for a TD than zone. You can still keep your safeties in zone, as actual safeties, though, of course. But anyway, we criticize bend-don’t-break and zone and other types of pass defense, but they can keep you in the game.

by jacobstevens on Sep 22, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions

I thought Ray Lewis was supposed to be good...

by Kryten on Sep 21, 2010 4:07 PM PDT reply actions

Ray Lewis is good.

Whether or not Roy Lewis is, is the question.

by Dizzy Saturn on Sep 21, 2010 4:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions

At first I was like ...

Then I was like LOL

If life gives you lemons, keep the receipt

by Bramlet A. on Sep 21, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions

The funniest part is the link is really for Ray Lewis.

by Kryten on Sep 21, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Even funnier is it's the most recent article now on Ray Lewis's profile

There’s going to be a couple of very confused Ravens fans

by B.B.Finnegan on Sep 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Pretty sure those links aren't manually added.

by Nate Dogg on Sep 21, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions

They're not, auto-tags

Fixed.

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 21, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Thank you.

by John Morgan on Sep 21, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions

And that was the short ass Broncro drive...

I don’t know if i can make it through the long ass drives.

An 81 yard drive, a 91 yard drive, and two 80 yard drives. Bend and get bent over defense. Shoot me now.

by B.B.Finnegan on Sep 21, 2010 4:44 PM PDT reply actions

To me, the question isn't how bad was it...

(which was pretty bad)— but rather what would it take to be good?
I think we’ll get there with time and a few more talent upgrades.

by Kryten on Sep 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Is it just me, or does zone defense never work out well?

by DetectiveM on Sep 21, 2010 6:41 PM PDT reply actions

It works much better when the QB is in a hurry to get rid of the ball.

Our main defensive weakness, I think.

by Kryten on Sep 21, 2010 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions

It works if your front 4 can generate consistent pressure (see: 2002 Bucs)

When they don’t get pressure, things break down in a hurry.

Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?

by Benne on Sep 21, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions

the 2002 Bucs are the shinning example of zone defense

and then….that’s it. And I guess the 90’s 49ers? You know, the one with the amazing offense.

by B.B.Finnegan on Sep 22, 2010 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions

I hear the two go hand in hand

zone defense is the shit if you have the lead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI

Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!

by jubelthebear on Sep 22, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions

Of course, we actually rarely did a "front 4"

on 3rd and long, but rather, dropped a lineman into coverage to, making it 3 “rushing” the QB, and 8 in coverage. That is to say, the no balls, let them have all the time in the world coverage scheme in which the QB almost always has the time to find someone in a gap in the zones.

I thought we did a really shitty job of play calling on those 3rd downs. Not that we should have blitzed a bunch of guys often, but at least put 1 more guy up there, so 4 were actually rushing, and perhaps we would have shut down 1 or 2 more 3rd and longs, at least!

by BlueThruAndThru on Sep 22, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions

The zone defense is second cousin by an illegimate and shameful marriage to

the prevent defense.

by broadbill birdwatcher on Sep 21, 2010 6:57 PM PDT reply actions

Zone defense could work

If like in ‘05 The seahawks had tackles that could collapse the pocket. I’m not really even talking about rushing, just push the damn pocket back to the QB, but we don’t have anyone at that position that will do that. Mebane is a run stuffer and our most talented DT but he’s never going to move the pocket the way Marcus Tubbs did. If I could trade for a great DT with skills to collapse the pocket, shit, I’d trade Mebane in a second. And every Mebane fan is ready to destroy me

by Joshua Kasparek on Sep 21, 2010 7:32 PM PDT reply actions

You are indeed Krazy. Because I cannot do it as well, I'll just post a John quote:

Mebane. Some guys control like Cole. Some guys knife in like Clemons. Few can do both, and fewer still do both simultaneously. Mebane is a weird profile. You wouldn’t expect him to be good at basketball or tennis or track and field. He doesn’t blow doors off with his generic tools. Brandon is purest of the pure defensive tackle. If you wanted to build an under tackle for an under system, you build that mother like Brandon Mebane.

by DJ C-Raig on Sep 21, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions

No push, I never said he lacked a ton of skill or moves, that'd be stupid.

I said he doesn’t force a redirect in the pocket. How many times did Marcus Tubbs help the seahawks run 3 man lines with Rocky Bernard at D-End forcing pressure right up the middle in the easiest way to help the edge rushes and Blitzes. Mebane doesn’t do this but yet is our best player. I think that’s more a poor refection of the talent at DT outside Mebane. And the Seahawks could draft D-ends forever and not find one that gets consistent pressure, but as good DTs like Cortez Kennedy Prove or even Casey Hampton is you can plug in any player at D-end at get average or above average pressure.

by Joshua Kasparek on Sep 21, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions

I am with you.

I am a Mebane lover. But if no one has noticed, the league is hurting for formidable pass rushing 3-tech tackles right now. Which is why I’m really rooting for Gerald McCoy to become real good. If I could get a guy like that to move Mebane over to be a quite good run stuffing nose but the best pass rushing nose outside of Jay Ratliff (and one who makes his teammates better, more so than Ratliff does) I would do it in an instant.

Although I disagree with you on Casey Hampton. Just a good squatter who held the point well for an otherwise very talented defense. It’s true that the 3-4 can suck without a good nose, and Hampton was often the poster child for that, but he was just good, he didn’t make their defenses great. They were great because they were talented all around including him.

by jacobstevens on Sep 22, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Mebane is ten times the tackle Marcus Tubbs ever was.

by John Morgan on Sep 22, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, I know, Tapp had that 18 sack season and everything.

Mebane always moves his guys 3 steps into the backfield on passing downs to force redirects in the pocket and he’s money if left on a 3 man line. He’s awesome in the passing game. In a passing league. I’m so stupid. Tubbs forced redirects in the pocket or collapsed it on passing downs He forced double teams because he forced his way up field. Just being hard to move doesn’t make you 10 times better than a guy that clearly had all the tools to be a bulldozer and was.

You post all these articles as if Mebane being great against the run is enough to build a defense around in a modern passing NFL which you stated on many occasions was why you thought seattle building itself around the run was ancient NFL history. Encouraging them to build a wide open passing attack. Mebane is only great at stopping the run. He doesn’t open blitzing lanes or move the QBs feet. What I’m saying is, stop over blowing Mebane’s skills because he’s the best talent on the line, he isn’t a hall of fame player nor would he have a five star skill ranking. Tubbs participated in one of the Seahawks best sack seasons ever and after he left due to injury the team never had the same numbers or pressure by the D-line.

by Joshua Kasparek on Sep 22, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Tubbs missed three games in 2005. The Seahawks had nine sacks.

Brandon Mebane matched Tubbs best ever sack output, one accomplished on the Seahawks best ever team, in his second year, on an inferior team, with an inferior defense.

Tubbs was a very talented player that could hardly make the field as a rookie, had a very good season on a stacked team and then was forced out the league through injury. Whatever your nostalgic impression of Tubbs, Mebane is a better player, would have had a better season had he played for the 2005 Seahawks and nothing about the Seahawks subsequent collapse has anything to be with Tubbs.

by John Morgan on Sep 22, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions