PFT Thinks We Cut Vickerson
That would make me even less happy.
EDIT: Schefter confirms.
EDIT: As of 12:15 PM, I am fucking confused.
EDIT: 12:32PM -- Dolphins claim Rob Rose off waivers, and Aaron Curry tweets "Things are gettin alil shaky wit the Seahawks!!! What'll happen next?"
EDIT: 1:09PM -- Schefter reports that we have cut JJ and Babs.
over 1 year ago
DJ C-Raig
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Yeah okay
So basically trading for White and Vickerson was a waste of a draft pick.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Considering the trade didn't cost a draft pick, no it wasn't?
The trade saw us move down a few spots in the draft. The trade cost was nihil, the trade result was nihil. No big loss, but a loss nonetheless.
Vickerson getting cut for some 31-year old career backup is stunning. What’s the point of competition when proving yourself throughout the preseason just puts you up for candicacy for getting cut for some scrub PC just happens to fancy.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
It was a waste of something.
Right now Q/PM are wasting my brain cells.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
That's 31-year old backup with a history of knee injuries to you mister
Although, isn’t Siavii more experienced at nose/over than Vickerson?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I have a terrifying feeling Q/PM will make a franchise-crippling move in the near future
Because this week is an absolute fustercluck.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
by SSreporters on Sep 5, 2010 12:06 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I can only laugh...
Colin Cole still has a job and Vickerson gets cut for some tuna can on the wrong side of 30 who no one wants?
A tuna can
With bally knees.
I’m now officially concerned they DON’T have a plan. Other than cycling as many players through as possible.
Thats not good enough.
by ChucklehutCynic on Sep 5, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
They have to...
There is no way you make these moves without a plan. I think it’s becoming clear that 2010 is all about landing Luck/Locker/Mallett in the draft. That’s the only logical conclusion.
How about a conditional 7th rounder and Eric Weddle?
Eric Weddle has white man hustle.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Oh hell, NO!
San Diego will give us a 7th for Hasselbeck and our 4th.
The only worse scenario is Baltimore. They’ll take Hasselbeck, Curry, and Okung for a 6th-round pick and their assistant equipment manager.
Not Necessarily....
That would be too obvious. They do have tickets to sell.
We may notice guys like Vickerson going away. The casual (97%) of the fan base has no idea.
This FO brought in Vickerson
“Tanking” conspiracies are always unlikely. Believing a FO is tanking the season because they release players they themselves brought in is a bit silly.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe...
Also depends on when these decisions are made.
Is there really any possible way that they view Siavii as a better player than Vickerson? I just don’t see that. There has to be some reason.
Maybe Vickerson is just a pain in the ass. Talent can possibly be the motivating factor behind this move.
Watching him play, Vickerson can be a hot head
and things were a little heated between he and Clemons against Green Bay. That’s about all I can think of.
He was used heavily in rotation with Cole, seemed almost like he was challenging Cole for the starting spot
so this is pretty unexpected. Seattle had seemingly penciled him in as the rotational over tackle.
pissed at this move.
must be something we don’t know about Vickerson. I had hoped to see him challenging Cole to start.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Obviously, Paul Allen is getting secret kickbacks
from ESPN, the Seattle sports media, the SBNation bandwidth vendors, and several paper mills. He calculated a net profit of 38 cents from cutting Houshmandzadeh.
What the hell did Vickerson do to deserve this?
He has looked solid all preseason…..I don’t even know what to say anymore. This team refuses to let me believe in ANYONE on the roster now.
by J.L. White on Sep 5, 2010 12:13 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
That is, indeed, where it seems to be coming apart at the seams
Competition at every position? Good.
But then you work hard and prove yourself throughout the preseason, and what happens? They pick up a 31-year old scrub (yes, with bad knees) and replace you.
I can’t image the players buying into this, since it’s obviously horse dookie.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I think I figured it out! All you have to do is call JS and make him an offer that sounds somewhat decent!
So if you’re a FA Scrub – just be sure to let him know that if he signs you – you’ll cut his lawn, or wash his car.
No matter how silly it’s bound to sound like an excellent deal to him.
I bet salesmen see him coming a mile away.
Part of me feels like these moves are about creating a culture where players can't get too comfy
On one hand it’s all fun and rubber snakes. On the other it’s “nobody is safe.”
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
big men with a history of knee injuries are never really safe.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
I have a solution for you
Start believing in all the players that suck.
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Question
I don’t really know the difference between Vickerson and Siavii… but why aren’t we assuming that there is some sort of thought out reason behind this move? Everyone keeps assuming the worst about any trade or move that they don’t immediately like. Why assume the worst? Clemons has turned out surprisingly well in limited action, and JM had a whole post about how stupid it was to get rid of Tapp.
I’m not saying to have blind faith in Carrol and Schneider, but I mean do these moves with mediocre players really freak people out so much? Is that really warranted?
BTW: long time lurker, first time poster. go hawks!
by kurlare on Sep 5, 2010 12:15 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
I'm rec'ing you because this is your first post. Welcome to Field Gulls!
Vickerson has been solid, if not better than Clemons in preseason yet Terrill does nothing and Vickerson has to go?
Siavii is 31 with an injury history and you cut Vickerson instead?
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
What the fuck
is the rec’d talk. And what does it have to do with the seahawks?
by m_b on Sep 5, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
stufr still carries a live-long grudge over SSReporters not reccing his first post
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Check yourself before you rec yourself.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
by SSreporters on Sep 5, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reccing the hell out of you for referencing the Rabbit God.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My favourite novel, bar none
(double amusing because the rest of my favourite books are typical snobbery a la Dostoevsky’s Brothers Karamazow, Solshenitsyn’s Cancer Ward, Cervantes’ Don Quixote, Hugo’s Les Miserables, etc)
Politest profanity in existence though!
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
It;s a good novel.
The animated movie freaked me out as a kid. I didn’t read the novel until I was an adult, and realized it was a better novel than film. Also, it isn’t for kids.
It is an allegorical story in many ways
And I adore allegorical writing. Gulliver’s Travels, Master and Margarita, Don Quixote, all that stuff.
It’s not for kids exactly but I guess it still works for kids, at least the smart ones.
The animated film is mad scary. I watched it as a pup as well.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Vickerson has a history or injuries as well-
I havent followd Siavii much other than remembering seeing him on the Cowboys Hard Knocks I believe (or some kind of Cowboys special). When I saw he had been cut yesterday I had a feeling Seattle would take a look in that direction. I did not foresee Vickerson being the victim of his signing though.
If nothing else we swapped an unproven injury-plagued NT for another unproven injury-plagued NT who the Hawks believes to be a better commodity for one reason or another. I expected Vickerson to miss some time this season with an injury, and I would expect the same now from Siavii.
Welcome to Field Gulls.
Not really assuming the worst, It’s just that Vickerson looked good in the pre-season and looked to be a solid contributor and now they cut him when there were far worse players they could of cut.
I don’t think losing Vickerson sets this team back that much or anything, it’s just not a good move and a move they didn’t have to make.
Thanks
Yeah I don’t understand this move either, but I’m willing to admit my ignorance of both football scouting and behind the scenes decision making. You want better play on the DL, they bring in Vickerson and so you start to hope that he’s gonna be the guy. Same with BMW, Tate, etc. When they dump him for someone who, on paper, looks worse, it’s disappointing and raises a big wtf!?
Then again, at the end of last season people were calling for the FO to blow up the roster. If I recall correctly, a lot of people were calling for that, myself included. Well, we got what we wished for! It’s not to everyone’s specifications, of course, but consider it blown up.
They're blowing up parts of the roster that didn't need to be blown up
They were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!!
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
And THATS
The reason kurlare…that’s the reason people are in a state.
The FO is seemingly on one hand happy to turn over any rock to find talent….on the other hand the seeming weight of public opinion on a lot of their choices is not supportive as you noted.
by ChucklehutCynic on Sep 5, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Something must be wrong with Vickerson...
we don’t see when he’s out there. Injury prone? Attitude?
Because I liked the look of the DL with him in there more than Cole, in the first couple exhibition games, at least.
But, do remember that Vickerson played the 1-Tech mostly, right? And Terrill plays only 3-Tech?
How many more terrible cuts and trades until I can start my "bring back Ruskell" bandwagon?
7 picks for 7 quarterbacks in Draft 2011! EFF IT!
by Seatown_Sport_Head321 on Sep 5, 2010 12:18 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I thought this read "Bring back Russell"
And I thought to myself….yes, yes I would bring back B-Russ.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
I'd second that.
If we’re going to suck, we might as well be hilarious while sucking.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
I have a belief system in this front office.
by abender20 on Sep 5, 2010 12:18 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Try this in sarcasm font
I have a belief system in this front office
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I can't even think straight
I am now starting to wonder if I want this particular regime to succeed.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
I always want the Seahawks regime to succeed
Whether or not I consider it likely they do is another question.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I want the Seahawks franchise to succeed
I do not want seemingly incompetents making pea-brained decisions succeeding. Bad process should not be rewarded with success.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
replace process with intelligence
and you have your answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
The height of cruel irony would be if this FO (with its bad process) experienced immediate success...
While the Mariners FO (with its good process) did not.
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
think or hope
?…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
It's possible
Seattle plays Oakland, St. Louis twice, and Kansas City. That’s 4 likely wins right there.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
I was just about to say
Oakland can take us. But they might be overrated coming into the season, let’s see them play first.
We do have the advantage of a massively weak schedule, but I wouldn’t bet a lot on it being enough.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Do people
really think the Squawks are gonna be that hot in KC? When have they ever been hot in KC? And please don’t cite “DT’s Big Day Out” cause the Seahawks still got their butts handed to them most of that game… God I miss Krieg…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
damn
I gotta stop askin the wrong people for game info :-(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
I agree.
For one thing, their schedule is pretty weak.
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting. I feel like the team is worse on paper heading into this season as compared to last year at this time.
Add in a lack of faith in Hasselbeck and my concern that our passrush will get the secondary destroyed and I have no issues envisioning a 4-12 season.
I worry a lot about Unger/Andrews/Hamilton/Gipson/Willis/Wrotto.
Can a line hold up with a good LT and C and rubbish around it?
So dramatically improve LT, RG is likely to improve some, maybe by substitution
Sims was good but Sims to replacement level could be dwarfed by replacement level/gimpy Locklear to Okung. I don’t know about right tackle, but right tackle is right tackle and Seattle has certainly brought in enough bodies that I assume someone can shake out.
I also love the upside of ET, BMW, and 2nd year for Curry and Carlson getting more throws
We are certainly better than last year….being better than 5-11 is nothing to get too worked up over, though.
Better than 5-11, easier schedule (in my estimation), better coaching and a little luck
It’s a 16 game season, who’s to say Seattle can’t win 9?
I think 9 would probably take the division.
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Comparing Smith to Leinert makes me VERY happy
Aside from a few games last year, what’s the big difference between these two? Not much….heh heh.
Or Mebane gives Smith the Rocky Bernard treatment
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
This thought makes me die a little inside.
No, fuck that. It makes me a die a lot inside. I would gladly watch any other team in football experience success. Any team but the Niners.
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
The defense is really bad an the offense's marginal improvements are dependent on an injured rookie.
9 wins seems like a pipe dream.
Even Peyton Manning struggled in his first season
Bradford does not have anything like the built in weapons of Matt McCoy. I would be amazed if St. Louis won more than five games, regardless of how good Bradford is or becomes.
I agree, just don't know why one of those 5 couldn't be against us.
I just don’t see any gimmes for us on this roster. Just a lot of ???s and the number keeps growing
Just for some perspective
It’s worth noting that the Eagles seem to be operating somewhat similarly. They’ve cleared out a lot of people, including (obviously) a high-salaried guy that they no longer wanted. It’s not a justification, but it is to say that this kind of roster churn is not entirely unique for a new front office.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Sure...
Roster turnover is expected, but getting rid of more talented players in favor of less talented ones is not.
That
I am certain happens on every team. Again, no justification for letting go Housh. But, with other guys I could see a difference of opinion.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
They also have a definite plan, have built around an incredible pass rush, added Brandon Graham and Tapp to that,
have young and supremely talented players at their offensive skill positions (or at least in theory Kolb and McCoy added to Jackson and Maclin), have been shrewd with their moves, in managing their salary, and in acquiring picks.
Those things were all pre-Howie Roseman, right?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I just don't understand anymore.
What the hell is goin on?
A 4-12, 5-11 team is being blown up and rebuilt
by lemonverbena on Sep 5, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
FUCK YEAH THIS NEW HOUSE WILL BE THE SHIT!
PASS ME SOME MORE OF THOSE RUSTY I-BEAMS, JOHN, I’M THEY WILL HOLD AND IF NOT WE’LL JUST FIND SOME MORE!
by abender20 on Sep 5, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
We are still in the "blown up" phase
wait on the rebuild
by stufr on Sep 5, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The two occur simultaneously.
You don’t make yourself asset-poor and useless and then start trying to get young and talented.
What about just ass-poor?
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Roster-turn is one thing.....
But cutting commodities, dumping talent for low draft picks, trading proven and capable starting guards for other low draft picks, and now dumping off draft day trades for unproven free agents is not good proccess. I am surprised that the media isn’t more openly questioning these moves.
7 picks for 7 quarterbacks in Draft 2011! EFF IT!
by Seatown_Sport_Head321 on Sep 5, 2010 12:32 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Huh I wake up this morning.
Neat we picked up Zack Robinson!
What the Fuck we released Vickerson!?
This team is making me Bi-Polar.
Who the hell is Rob Rose?
Dolphins claimed him from us….but I honestly have NEVER heard of him, and I like to think I know these things pretty well.
O'Neill is implying that injuries may have played a role in Vickerson's release
That would make more sense if true.
Link.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
So they cut someone with injuries
To make room for someone with injuries?
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Hey, I'm fishing myself
I liked Vickerson.
I won’t assume it was a good move, but will presume that they made if for some reason.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Vickerson is an avid reader and told Pete that "Win Forever" is eight ounces of bad writing and inanity.
by John Morgan on Sep 5, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
And then he suggested that Pete consider adderall for his ADD
That, as they say, was that.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
It would
If we hadn’t just replaced him with someone who spent 3 years out of football partially due to knee injuries
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I want schneider GONE. And if it turns out all this shits PC's ideas, I want him gone as well.
This is absolutely absurd, I have no stomach left for these fucking clowns. How on earth can shit like this cause any sort of cohesion in the locker room? How can anyone on the team focus on football? This fucking 31 year old we picked up may be of similar talent (I doubt it) but he did not have the benefit of learning our scheme in training camp. He has to learn everything right before week one. We invested all of that time and energy in Vickerson, only to get rid of him for some scrub that could not possibly be an improvement.Not to mention he cant possibly be in the long term plan. Vickerson could have been serviceable depth in the rotation for years to come. The way things are going tells the entire team that no matter what you do, Schneiders curiosity, and “grass is always greener” compulsions will always supersede competent play and hard work. How does this make us better? This whole “competition” bit is a complete farce. This was the camel that broke the back for me. I now want this F/O purged.
by 12th_man_syndrome on Sep 5, 2010 12:43 PM PDT reply actions
Can you wait until the game starts?
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
by SSreporters on Sep 5, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
His tone is too much
But that does not invalidate the points he made, re: having invested in Vickerson, re: Siavii not knowing the system, re: Siavii being old, etc. etc.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I agree with most of what he says
But I would not fire them ASAP.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
A system implies an ordered and comprehensive combination of doctrine, plan, and/or methods.
This sounds more like blind belief (and perhaps faith), not that there is anything wrong with it.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
A system could be throw darts
Or a jump to conclusion matt or maybe they tie pens to hamsters and see whose names get crossed off as they run accross a roster on the ground.
A system is just a system, not necessarily an orderly one.
by stufr on Sep 5, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Straw that broke the camels back*
sorry I’m white fucking mad right now.
by 12th_man_syndrome on Sep 5, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope.
GNN is where you rationalize every move as the right move.
This is the opposite.
I figured the lowercase changed it.
Somehow I thought GNN was when people went crazy in one way or another. I’m still learning.
I get that people are upset..
But folks need to take a damn breath.. We haven’t even played a reg season game yet, let’s reserve judgement until some actual football is played.. Calling for their jobs seems like the thing to do if they cut hasselbeck this morning, not Kevin Vickerson.
by CurryInAHurry59 on Sep 5, 2010 11:30 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I'm happy for Rose.
Maybe my anger has been exhausted. What I am thinking right now is, good for Rob Rose.
I'm happy for anyone jumping off a sinking ship
I was kidding; that’s just my frustration talking.
But seriously, fuck cutting Vickerson.
I thought we cut him?
Or are you hoping no one picks him up?
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Is he even PS eligible? I was hoping he'd get stashed for easy retrieval once Q/PM tire of Siavii or finish filling him with heroin balloons or whatever they are doing.
by abender20 on Sep 5, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don't believe he's eligible
He’s had one accrued season in which he was no the active roster for at least 8 games, namely 2007 with the Colts (9 games played, 1 started). I believe that makes him ineligible, but correct me if I’m wrong.
9 games is the cut-off point, so he’s exactly not eligible.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Then it's time to swallow a few more balloons and head over the border. Off you go, Quinn.
Daddy’s gotta pay Reggie Bush somehow.
Maybe we'll be signing Frostee Rucker soon
:)
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Are people really this angry over all these moves?
I’m not a fan of some of these moves but none of them are franchise crippling. Maybe I’m missing some deeper meaning. To wish termination or even close to termination of a HC or GM when they haven’t played a regular season game is ridiculous.
Punks jump up to get beat down.
All of these moves unquestionably make the team worse
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
What about the moves that make the team better
Nobody cares about picking up Washington or pulling Williams off the street they just choose to ignore it and focus on the negative. This team IMHO is better than the team last year and if we have better success this year than in years past does that buy the FO some leeway.
Punks jump up to get beat down.
I hate the fact this image even comes to mind and its way premature, but...
even Matt Millen got lucky sometimes.
I do care about picking up Washington but
I don’t see how anyone can say this roster is better than last year’s. Our receiving corp features a rookie, a bust we’re trying to resurrect, a 2nd year player, and the fragile Deion Branch. Houshmandzadeh and Burleson > Williams and Butler. Our lousy pass rush from 2009 just got significantly worse.
I’d say in pockets we have better players in some areas (like running back) but as a whole the roster quality is worse.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Last year had almost no youth?
The youth we did have was almost all on the bench?
LT, FS, backup QB, Spencer seems to be sticking, Trufant looks back, Milloy looks like a bad-ass, Thurmond is intriguing. We have more players that look like they’ll be part of the next great Seahawks team (if there is one) than we did last year.
I think this roster is better than last year’s, because long term it is, and that’s how they should be constructing it. Some of the pieces we’ve lost felt like they could be long term players for us, but I’ll take elite at LT, FS, and possible an elite CB over simply good at DE, nickle, and LG. Those are not mutually exclusive, and it’s a process that hurts, but I’ll still take where we are over where we were.
couldnt have said it better
I have no problem getting rid of Housh when it means our younger receivers will get more experience and be that much better when we can compete.
None of them, individually, are franchise crippling
Even taken together our roster quality never was enough for any move to be “franchise crippling”.
I would guess that the real problem lies in this: what are they thinking? What’s the process here? Where’s any sign of any plan? All we see is some joker who seems addicted to making roster moves that do not qualitatively improve the team at all.
Plenty of moves you just have to shrug at, but moves like this just smell of terrible process.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
You make a good point that bears repeating
Even taken together our roster quality never was enough for any move to be "franchise crippling".
This roster isn’t really good enough to be crippled.
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
It's the worry that the handling of the smaller moves predicts poor process in larger impact moves as well.
Like, say, trading for and paying Vincent Jackson.
This brings an analogy to mind
If the ship keeps repeatedly reversing direction, even the galley slaves know the captain doesn’t know what he’s doing.
We can’t objectively evaluate a process we have no view into, but common sense tells us that decisions that don’t make sense are probably not good decisions.
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
by TheLaird on Sep 5, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's how I felt about Brandon Marshall.
And we didn’t pull the trigger.
Maybe wait and see?
I am worried about future player retention though. We seem to be throwing away a lot of decent talent because they are in their final year of contract. Is that going to be a pattern, or just part of the pre-regime roster purge?
Another possibility is that, fully aware that the team will blow chunks this year
the moves at the end of the roster are about putting together a group of guys that “buy in” to the program, whatever that is.
Regardless of whether we like that, if true, it may not portend a similar process in subsequent seasons. It’s because this roster really doesn’t have much chance to contend (save luck) the focus is on getting the types of guys in place they want; not terribly different than the Ruskell plan.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Its so tough to build a competitve team in the modern NFL though
It never happens overnight and we seem to be hacking away with chainsaws rather than scalpels. There is no nuance to their actions. Everything is herky jerky (scientific term I believe) and seemingly reactionary and often overly reactionary. I think what we’re missing is that professional sports don’t exist simply to exist. They make money because fans enjoy the product and experience on the field. Part of that experience is having a least a partial sense in confidence in the FO moves. They have done nothing to instill confidence. They seem to undo the good and make me think they are playing craps or roulette and stupidly playing the numbers.
Dolphins did it Overnight*
But they had Bill Parcels
People that wish for the FO to fail or be fired are trying to avoid a scenario in which Carroll and Schneider achieve short term success, earn security and power, and then do irreparable damage to the team's future.
It might be a little presumptuous, but it isn’t unsupported.
The scenario for short term success is getting some long odds though
Especially since our O-line promises to be a nightmare. D-line too.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree completely: sht term is impossible with the personnel we started with
the personnel to make us succeed short term just isn’t available.
Is it supported only in that it is plausible?
Or is there something more to support it?
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
It is supported, by those that believe the above, by the sense that the FO has made numerous mistakes
and many of their successes are fortune, circumstance or otherwise unrepeatable.
If that's what supports it,
the view that all good outcomes are due to chance and all bad outcomes are due to the error attributable to the FO, then I’d have to judge those beliefs as unsupported.
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
However, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck,
it may well turn out to be a duck.
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
I'm going to hope that they succeed because I think they have more positives than a lot of regimes.
Their drafting I liked. Willingness to look at anyone (Reggie and Mike Williams) to add talent. Willingness to draft a badly injured player to get more bang for the buck. I like the offensive coordinator, and the ZBS, something I think PC will stick with even without Gibbs.
I worry about the defensive scheme too, and some of their player evaluations outside of the draft, but without this group, could we be as bad as having Ruskell/Mora? Worse?
I see enough reason for hope to root for them to stick around. Another year or two of this, and maybe I’ll change my mind.
A blinding flash of the obvious
2010
ALLEN: Here, coachie, coachie, coachie…
CARROLL: [sniffs the air suspiciously, then hunkers down at USC]
ALLEN: I’ve got a very special treat for you!
CARROLL: [sniffs] Are those GM duties?
ALLEN: Yum yum!
CARROLL: [comes to Seattle]
CLANG!
ALLEN: Gotcha!
CARROLL: [gorges himself on roster moves]
2011
CARROLL: May I have some more GM duties?
ALLEN: Sorry, too much is bad for coachie.
CARROLL: [glances hopelessly back towards USC, then sulks]
ALLEN: You should enjoy your coaching. It’s good for you.
CARROLL: [perks up a bit; coaches]
ALLEN: Good boy!
My point is not that this is necessarily the plan, but it has worked out this way before.
Carroll was lured here by roster control, and Schneider was brought in with the offer of a promotion. But Carroll was coveted (I think) for his coaching talent, and that looks solid. Schneider was coveted (I think) for his ability to evaluate draft talent, and that looks solid.
While these roster moves are damaging, I fear that another quick turn of the coach/GM carousel would be pretty bad for the Seahawks, too. So I’m going to hold out hope that if Seattle fares poorly this year (or this year and next), Allen finds a way to keep Carroll’s and Schneider’s good talents while trimming their power to abuse bad talents.
by Jason_D on Sep 5, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Colin Cole Squared
from Sando:
The Dallas Cowboys terminated Siavii’s contract Saturday. Scouts Inc. had this to say about him: “Siavii played in a backup role to Jay Ratliff at nose tackle in 2009 and showed decent power to hold the point as a run defender, but little strength to push the pocket when rushing the passer.”
Well, they've been on the chopping block for a while.
Also: Fuck cutting Vickerson. I really liked him, and he’s not Craig Terrill.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Like this
http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/23085110678
The timestamp is the link for Twitter
Guys I put up a fanshot for this here. I’m mostly curious to see who they brought in for these cuts.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Nevermind re: fanshot
Sorry for the people who replied to it, but looks like Craig is on top of keeping this fanshot up-to-date, so no reason to stack more on top of it.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Babs hasn't played well in a while.
He’s hung on this roster due to a couple of big plays at opportune times and our long-stale coaching staff.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
If we only give up a 4th or 5th rounder, I'd be okay with it
Paul Allen’s money is not MY money….and he really has a lot of it, too!
Well, since VJax is now out for at least 6 games
His price may have gone down. If not, then I’m against trading for him.
Good. That's ridiculous
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Vincent Jackson wouldn't take up a roster spot
He’s suspended and then roster exempt for the first six games. He doesn’t take a roster spot for that time
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay, that's fine with me.
But I’m gonna miss Big Play Babs.
Honestly JJ had to go, he’s good at everything and is great at nothing.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Can't push the pocket
He fits right in !
by Richard fg7 on Sep 5, 2010 1:12 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Seriously.
We don’t need no stinking pocket pushers!
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
DON"T WORRY!
Craig Terrill will delight us all season long with ineffective spin moves and lolling about on the ground!
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't wait for the Terrill/Cole two man wrecking crew
Hell, may as well drop both ends in coverage when they’re both on the field together
I have defended the FO through all this, but...
Now I’m just confused.
Why do this now. Why not yesterday. These moves would have been easier yesterday. I just don’t get it. I don’t mind blowing up the team. I don’t lose heart from any of the individual moves. The big picture isn’t becoming clearer though.
I kinda figured Jones and Bab's
But Vickerson makes no sense. Also makes no sense that Jones and Bab’s weren’t just cut yesterday. Sounds like some unthought out decision making. Oh well, full rebuild into something something or something is full go.
Hmmm?
Presumably Babs and Jones were cut to make room for waiver claims/Free Agents being brought in. There was no reason to cut them yesterday. It is normal process to make your 53-man roster and then cut the fringe players as you see what waiver claims come in.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
So, I'm coming out for the Giants game...
What’s going on in town in early November?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Whitehurst to Vincent Jackson
15 catches for 220 yards and 2 TDs
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Competition at every position.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd like to see 'em work THAT in
fo sho
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
They brought Hamlin in
I think Detroit would sign him because -- Detroit.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Here's a thought...
Is the FO freeing up money to get Haynesworth or V-Jack? Eh? Eh? I wonder if that would make anybody feel better, lol.
These moves do add up to 7 million in salary for this year
But this year is capless, so…
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
No, removes all justification for the other "next year FA salary dumps"
Why trade Wilson, cut Housh, etc.?
Something feels like its in the works.
Kind of the same feeling as when we fired Mora, you knew something was happening and quickly.
It would be retarded to bring in Haynesworth.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
by SSreporters on Sep 5, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I hear Jay Richardson is available
bad knees, average sack stats perfect fit…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
Why?
Because of character issues or because he wouldn’t be productive?
Haynesworth's contract would be very reasonable
for any team that traded for him. The skins have already paid him most of his guaranteed money. All that’s left is a less than average salary.
I'd love to see Haynesworth here.
Haynesworth/Mebane DT combo? Sounds good to me.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I honestly don't really care if the guy's an asshole.
His job isn’t to be friendly. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. I can see how his attitude could be a problem. But I think the only reason to avoid him would be the money. If that’s not much of an issue, then just avoiding him because he can be a prick seems petty and stupid. Just my opinion, though.
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm less concerned about his personality
as his conditioning, history of injuries, age and massive contract.
Hmm, your comment spawned a thought that kind of flies in the face of my previously stated opinion.
His personality likely affects his conditioning, which seems a likely case for his injury history. So after all I said, perhaps, in a round-a-bout way, his attitude would be a problem
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Haven't seen a number in a while
I would guesstimate we’re over 150 now, since PC joined. We were at about 120-130 when we had a 75-man roster.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I just ordered a pizza to console my frustration
Football season is supposed to be fun and not stressful. When did it stop being fun and more like a bad relationship
by illwillbli on Sep 5, 2010 1:35 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Football slept with my best friend
Then she left me and stole my stereo on the way out the door.
Football’s a bitch, but I still love her.
I suppose it is testament to how informed Field Gulls readers are,
but it is a little odd how much stronger the reaction is to Kevin Vickerson, the backup defensive tackle, getting cut than the reaction to T.J. Houshmandzadeh, the team’s best wide receiver, getting cut.
Maybe it was a bad move. Maybe it wasn’t. I just don’t have enough information to form an opinion one way or another. Nor do I see it as a terribly move of great significance.
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
by TheLaird on Sep 5, 2010 1:35 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
There were at least some financial reasons that went into the TJ cut.
I really don’t understand what the team gains in replacing Vickerson.
Probably bring him back after week 1
If he has injury issues, that way they don’t have to guarantee his salary.
Also, the TJ rumors were spread out over the course of a few days
While Vickerson was just cut right out of the blue.
We suck at DT except Mebane
I think we still have good receivers, and faster ones, as Housh is more a possession receiver at this stage in his career. Plus, financially, if you don’t cut him this year then you have to again deal with his contract next year. So, if you’re not keeping him, cut him now.
You could have traded Housh
Since you have to pay his salary for the entire year if you cut him.
by m_b on Sep 5, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I do believe the team tried
For weeks according to some, leading up to the 53-man roster date.
No luck.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Then keep him
He is your best receiver. None of the receivers on this roster, other than Tate, are going to help this team in the future.
by m_b on Sep 5, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Most would agree, as would I
but I could understand where they might say that a 32 year old guy, in a losing situation, where the costs are already sunk… it’s probably best for everyone to part ways now and give a kid some snaps.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Kid can earn snaps from one of the most skilled receivers in football.
Cutting T.J. doesn’t seem very Win Forever.
This.
I don’t buy the “give the kids snaps” deal.
Forsett should’ve earned snaps when the season was lost. I don’t think giving them game 1 in a winnable division is smart.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
You've got to be kidding
Deon Bulter has no chance to help the team in the future? Big Mike Williams couldn’t continue to develop into a big, dangerous weapon? Obo can’t continue to crack fools as a gunner on special teams?
At his price, there was zero chance of keeping Housh after this year. They didn’t like how he fit on the team, so they tried to trade him and nobody else wanted his contract either. They wanted to develop other players. That’s why you don’t keep him for one year. It’s a waste of time and targets.
by lemonverbena on Sep 5, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a different argument than the post I replied to
And doesn’t address the fact that they weren’t going to retain Housh after 2010.
It doesn't mean he can't
It means they didn’t want him to be, so that they can develop players who will be.
I haven't seen a reasonable argument that says they can't develop players with TJ on the team.
Cutting your best receiver because you don’t like him is dumb.
Not because you don't like him
Because you’re not going to keep him next year with his big contract. And because he takes targets away from other players. And because they don’t like his fit in the new system. And because he’s a whiny bitch. They considered the whole picture, believe me. Cutting a player of that stature puts Carroll’s neck way out there, and he knows it.
This Housh is a douchebag thing has to stop
I said in the other thread this garbage rumor/story was pretty much meant to distract people from Hasselbeck’s trash performances and Mora sucking ass out there.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
by SSreporters on Sep 5, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
He takes targets away from other players because he's good.
If you’re not going to keep him next year, then cut him next year.
Ok, hows this?
You’re not going to keep him next year because of his big contract – His contract is not any less big this year because he was cut. Cutting him accomplished nothing financially, the same amount of money is going to TJ except now he’s getting it to not play for the Hawks.
He doesn’t fit the scheme – Then why are you worried about him taking targets away from other players? If he doesn’t fit the scheme he won’t play or won’t play well and Tate or Butler can take targets away from him.
He’s a whiny bitch – Yes, he had the audacity to get upset with Hasselbeck playing like shit one time.
They considered the whole picture, believe me – You met Pete once and you fell in love, you’re not the most reasonable person when it comes to the Q/PM.
The points I made have nothing to do with my opinion of Carroll
We disagree and let’s leave it at that.
That's what I said.
Then let’s keep him.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
tried
no one really had any incentive to give up anything for him, given his contract, when they could wait and get him for the minimum with no compensation.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
As I understand it, the Seahawks guaranteed his salary this year
So why cut him now? Why not wait a couple weeks into the season, when the Vikes or whoever else realize that they are toast with their current receivers, or someone gets injured, and then try to trade him. The Hawks gained nothing but a roster spot by cutting him before week 1. I think they could have gotten something for him in a trade.
Its difficult to have a lot of confidence
In a front office that continues to make change after change, after change, after change…. They must be horrible talent evaluators since have dumped numerous players they brought in and never even played one down in an actual NFL game for the Seahawks. It scares the shit out of me.
by m_b on Sep 5, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
when you consider
how much of TJ’s stats (yards mainly) were stacked in garbage time, it does kinda even out the perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
so enigmatic
sodesune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
I dig what you're saying
I was referencing (with out specifying) that TJ’s leading receiver stats might be looked at differently if one looked at when he accrued most of his yards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
Have to adjust that for every receiver to create a baseline
or else you are creating a stat without a frame of reference.
is that a bell curve?
I guess Holmgren was right; there are no lazy answers…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
I'm pretty sure there was a direct correlation
between the Texans’ win probability and my drunkenness that day.
Thank you, Walter Jones.
Thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.
Phonetically it's
soUdesune. Nice try though :)
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
So, the difference is,
you’ve have information available to support the rationalization of the Houshmandzadeh cut (though there may be more or less to it than what has been presented).
As for Vickerson, we have no information available, only guesses, as to why he was cut.
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
I would say that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
Probably another RB coming in from somewhere?
Who is the best guy out there that was cut or put on a PS? Would Seattle bring in Blount, who was released by TEN?
Chris Henry!
I’m so starting to sound like a broken record.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't bring in Blount
Mora would but not me.
I want to see Jeremiah Johnson.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
that's what I saw last night
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I'd love to bring that guy in
wonder if SF will look at him again?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I've heard he's pretty fast or something
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
them return knees
looked mighty old in the Minn game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
yes
but man he didn’t look fantastic in returns, maybe Minnesota was covering well…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
Fuck that noise.
Every time you masturbate... God kills a kitten? Fuck kittens.
by Matt Erickson on Sep 5, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Indeed
Worth a look. But only because Chris Henry was stashed
There is no free lunch in the NFL, and apart from a some minor struggles, if Pittman had no other warts he wouldn’t be available. Like other backs that otherwise fit Seattle’s system, Jeremiah Johnson and Chris Henry, for instance, Pittman would be stashed on another team’s roster
He’s not anymore.
ChrisHenryChrisHenryChrisHenryChrisHenry
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Carrol must look at PFT
and notice the Seahawks haven’t had a new headline in 15 min, so they cut another player. Top of mind – top of conference!
We'll only beat the 49ers if the Seahawks are trending on Twitter
Or is like by a million people on Facebook.
The Seahawks
Pete Carrol & John Schneider “We can rebuild them, we just don’t want to spend a lot of money”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 5, 2010 1:46 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
dude
That’s Mike Williams circa 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 5, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Win Forever
Compete win like earn forever everything like crazy win.
Surprise 49ers cut for the 53-man roster
He looked ok-ish in the pre-season, not very good
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the rep
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
*
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawksblog/index.html
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I hate the Seattletimes Seahawks board
full of irrationality and density… but then again it is the internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
Also a former QB.
So, uh…a guy who can do a lot of things but none of them particularly well.
I like the kid. Don’t know if he improves the team, but he’s not JJ.
special teams and trick plays
a little bit or receiver; seems like a luxury — probably a guy who gets cut after we play SF.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Is McLanahan telling Q/PM to pick up as many Niners as possible?
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Hopefully they will create an i-phone app
The automatically updates the roster. Can’t wait for that…
by m_b on Sep 5, 2010 1:47 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
We just hired an O-line coach
Also since Craig went off (I think), the day’s festivities continues here
The accounting department...
mush be furious with this shit. They may need to hire some temps to keep up with payroll.
Schmitt gone
http://www.macsfootballblog.com/2010/09/seahawks-sign-rb-michael-robinson.html
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Big Walt un-retires
released moments later.
by boytruck on Sep 5, 2010 1:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Seahawks send Colts a 7th rounder for Peyton Manning
But then immediately cut Manning to pick up Patrick Ramsey.
I’m kidding (you just can’t fucking tell with this team anymore).
Fellow Hawk fans, chill.
Every move made can be questioned from some perspective, no doubt. But the only thing that matters is how the team performs next week. Even a loss wouldn’t be the end of the world if the team shows well.
This year is not about going to the SB. While I believe the division is weaker than shit, and I am not buying at all into Singletary’s niners, Seattle could still sneak into the play-offs, but even if they don’t, as long as they play competitively, as long as they don’t descend into disfunction, we can look forward to years of play-off football.
It appears the PC means it about competition, and the only way you can truly evaluate a prospect is in your own house. Contracts, reputation, draft status, where you went to college – all meaningless, and that’s good.
The team is far better today than a year ago, at virtually every position. O-line, WR, RBs, QB, secondary – all significantly better. More talented. More potential. Faster. Taller. LB and TE mostly the same, the major weakness still the d-line, something we all realized on draft day.
I am anxious as anyone to see how this plays out on opening day, and I won’t be surprised by anything – close game, or blow out on either side.
Vickerson had injury issues/history. Housh was too slow and too expensive. No accounting for the Wilson thing – can’t put a decent light on that one, but other than that, with cutting Jones and Babs, I’m good.
by Hawksince77 on Sep 5, 2010 1:59 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
One more thing:
We don’t even know how this roster churn ends. Seattle could be setting up something special that we would please all of us.
Although I agree with the chill part
I think the anxiety is warranted.
It’s not clear what these guys are doing, and roster construction isn’t neurosurgery. What’s the point of all this roster churn is a fair question.
Nevertheless, I was in the “we’re most likely gonna suck no matter what” category. So I am not as upset as some. Still, it’s hard to get a fix on the direction here, and if Curry’s tweet is any indication, it’s hard for the players too.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Yes, it wouldn't surprise me if the players are just as confused as we are.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
THAT may be by design
I think he did a lot of the same stuff at ’SC.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Thinking further on it..
I wonder how Matt Hasselbeck thinks and feels about all that’s gone on in the last week
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd love to hear your justification as to how Seattle is better at virtually every position than they were a year ago.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
How are they better?
I didn’t include DE – if you check my post that was the one position of continuing concern.
QB – Whitehurst leaps and bounds better than Wallace
RB – Forsett/Washington as starters way better than Jones/James
WR – Williams/Tate/Butler/Branch/Obo far more talented/exciting than Housh/Branch/Burleson
O-line – Okung mainly, but efforts to improve all along the line. Just about anything will be better than last year
Secondary – Trufant back to starting form, Jennings the same, Thomas/Milloy starting over Babs/Grant, with some depth with Thurmond/Kam/Ellison (although off-set somewhat with the loss of Wilson)
TE/LBs about the same, although you could argue incremental improvement in both squads.
Other than the D-line, in my mind no question the team has gotten younger, more talented, far more potential this year over last. In time that will translate into more wins and more play-off appearences, although perhaps not this year.
Whitehurst being leaps and bounds better than Seneca is debatable.
If memory serves, Seneca Wallace once excited Seahawks fans in his first preseason much the same way that Whitehurst did. Much remains to be seen of Whitehurst.
Forsett and Washington as starters being better than Jones and James is extremely questionable. If this preseason was any indication, the running game has not improved much, if at all.
Wide receivers. Being more talented and more exciting does not equate to being better. This WR corps is also extremely unproven and an unknown commodity, so we therefore cannot conclude that it was better than it was last year.
The only real area that looks improved is the secondary.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously?
You would trade last year’s roster (WR/QB/RB) for what we have this year? And truly expect them to do better?
I realize that the judgment must necessarily be subjective, as we have no way to measure precisely the value of Butler this year over Burleson, say, or Mike Williams as the #1 WR over Housh, but I feel pretty comfortable with Butler/Williams over Housh/Burleson.
Same for the RBs. Thank christ Jones is finally gone. And you would truly prefer Wallace backing up Hasselbeck than Whitehurst? If so, you and maybe Holmgren – and that’s about it.
Another major improvement I didn’t mention above seems to be OC – Bates over Knapp. We’ll see, I suppose, but I see Williams/Butler being Bate’s Marshall/Royal from a couple of years ago. That is, if Hasselbeck can get them the ball.
I never said I would trade last year's roster for what we have this year. I also never said that I would prefer Wallace backing up Hasselbeck rather than Whitehurst.
I think you missed my point: In that we can’t know that the Seahawks are better because much remains to be seen. The regular season will tell us a lot more.
I personally think the Seahawks are worse as a team than they were a year ago.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand the first sentence...
…and agree with the second (about me missing the point). The regular season will indeed tell us more.
But I don’t know how this leads to your judgment that the Seahawks are a worse team this year. I don’t mean to argue – I would be truly interested to know why you believe that. I mean, I have pointed out where I think the team has improved, and do believe it is much better, especially for the longer haul, but am open to be convinced otherwise.
In terms of position, talent, personnel, scheme, coaching – how is the team worse off? For example, do you believe Mora was a better HC than PC is likely to be? If you wouldn’t trade rosters, or prefer having Wallace backing up Hasselbeck, how is the team worse off?
Part of the answer may be Hasselbeck. I don’t think he will be any better this year than last, and if he starts, that will be a subtraction, I believe.
Other than that, barring a major rash of injuries, not sure what’s not better.
But again, I’m all ears.
Aloha.
This will be a lengthy reply, so forgive me.
I’m going to first examine how things stand by first taking a look at some of the players that the Seahawks have departed with:
- Deon Grant. Solid free safety type of player who was playing out of position the majority of the years due to the personnel (Brian Russell and Jordan Babineaux). Currently, the Seahawks have replaced him with Earl Thomas. The consensus is that Earl Thomas is more talented than Deon Grant. I agree with this. However, Earl Thomas is a rookie. He has shown this preseason that he is a dynamic player but that he also still has a way to go and will experience the usual learning curve that most rookies experience. Lawyer Milloy, despite having the better frame for SS duties, sat the bench last year. Deon Grant, while not having Milloy’s frame, would likely have been a better pairing with Thomas than with Milloy, due to his range, even if he was out of his normal position. Of course, that’s hypothetical and subjective, but it still holds that Grant was more valuable to the Seahawks than Milloy was last year. But let’s say that the Seahawks decided to go with Milloy over Grant, keeping Grant means that they have one more starting-caliber player on the roster. This is valuable, very, very valuable.
The Seahawks are now starting an aged back up and a rookie. This is not often a recipe for success, despite the talent level of the aforementioned rookie, simply due to the growing pains typically associated with the player’s rookie year. Their depth is now gone. Kevin Ellison, Jamar Adams, and Babineaux are gone. Behind the starters are now Kam Chancellor and … fuck, I don’t know who else is behind them now.
Josh Wilson. Getting rid of him made the team worse. Remember Thomas’ interception this preseason? Wilson was responsible for that. Remember Wilson’s interception? Wilson, again. Here is a nickelback with an aptitude for the big play.
The secondary looked improved, and Wilson was part of the improved play this preseason, despite any pass rush. Trufant’s health and strong play and the addition of Thomas’ talent coupled with Wilson’s heady play and Milloy’s run support has added up what looked like an improved secondary. Getting rid of Wilson in favor of Jennings and Thurmond has now taken out a component that was integral to the secondary’s improvement. That’s a subtraction, and one that could make this year’s unit on par with last year’s, negating what seems to be an improved unit from last year.
Say Trufant gets hurt again. Who else can the Seahawks rely on? Earl Thomas, perhaps? Ok, but then who plays safety and do you really feel comfortable with Jennings and Thurmond still manning the other two spots in nickel packages? But if Thomas stays at safety, then it’s back down to Jennings and Thurmond, a very uncomfortable proposition. See, if Trufant were to get hurt again, the Seahawks don’t have the luxury of having Ken Lucas or Josh Wilson to pick up the slack, which he did admirably last year.
- T.J. Houshmandzadeh. I’ve raised a stink about the Seahawks cutting him without getting anything in return, and that if they couldn’t find any trade suitors, to keep him. I will not revisit that. However, cutting him does not make the Seahawks better this year. It makes this team worse. In Houshmandzadeh, the Seahawks had a player who was a dynamic route runner who could catch the ball in traffic as well as anyone in the NFL. One might go with the idea that the Seahawks are replacing him with Mike Williams, a talented player who has flamed out. Mike Williams, to his credit, has shown that he also a reliable receiver whose route-running is superb, and one could call that an even trade off. However, therein lies a problem: Williams is still an unproven commodity. He has proven that he has talent, but he has not proven that he can produce, and produce consistently. Houshmandzadeh has. Moreover, Houshmandzadeh has proven to be a reliable 3rd down option. Who else can we say that about on the current WR corps?
The WR corps is better with Houshmandzadeh in it, not without him. The Seahawks could still have Williams, Tate, Butler, Branch, and Obomanu with Houshmandzadeh in the picture. Now, the Seahawks are relying on unproven regular season commodities, with the exception of perhaps Branch, who was healthy for the majority of last year. This is a gamble. One that is being done without the clear demonstration that any of these WR’s will improve the WR corps for the upcoming season. Burleson and Houshmandzadeh were at least known. commodities.
Mansfield Wrotto. Insignificant of its own accord, but a transaction that negatively impacts the level of play and playcalling for the Seahawks, and that makes the team worse, not better. As we’ve seen in the game against the Vikings, the Seahawks have had to put John Carlson and other tight ends to protect Wrotto (and Matt Hasselbeck, to an extent) while facing off against the likes of Jared Allen. Jeremy Bates is an OC who likes to include the tight end in the passing game considerably, and this impacts, passing game signifcantly.
Wrotto is no special talent, but he was at least capable of playing a few solid games against mid-level pass rush teams. He was a valuable back up.
I know that the Seahawks have acquired Ruskell Okung in the draft, and he’s a considerable talent upgrade than whoever was at LT last year, but 1, he’s a rookie, and 2, he’s not invulnerable. He can still get hurt again this year. Let’s say he does, who is who is going to back him up now? Stacy Andrews? Tyler Polumbus? Locklear? Not with his performance thus far. There’s a reason they put Wrotto at LT when Okung got hurt and kept Locklear on the right side.
What’s more is that Locklear is not expected to be on the roster on opening day.
Neither Polumbus or Andrews have had the advantage of spending all offseason getting acclimated with Gibbs system. Wrotto had.
Rob Sims. I’ve been waiting to get to this. Rob Sims last year, under Mike Solari and his ZBS system had shown the most significant improvement of all of the O-linemen last year. He allowed Spencer to help out Unger. Had he not been able to hold his own, the interior O-line would have been a disaster. Getting rid of him still makes no sense to me to this day. There was no clear evidence that he did not fit the ZBS. He was a young, capable, if not promising guard whose size fit the Gibbs mold and was athletic.Sims proved capable of anchoring the LG spot at a respectable level.
The Seahawks replaced him with Ben Hamilton, who is 33 and was only brought in to help Okung with the adjustment of playing in the NFL. There is no clear evidence to suggest that he is better than Sims. Moreover, Hamilton may not be on the roster come next Sunday.
They’ve also added Chester Pitts, who is recovering from a microfracture surgery.
Locklear’s play this preseason indicates a decline in performance. The running game still continues to struggle.
The O-line overall is worse, even though the Seahawks have added a premiere talent at the most important position on the line.
This team isn’t getting better. They aren’t making additions by subtractions. No, they are getting worse. Worse and worse by subtraction.
Some people have said that these moves have been to make the team younger, but that’s not true. In fact, many of the young players that the Seahawks have gotten rid of this year have been replace a player older than them.
There are more of these examples I could think of, but all in all, I am inclined to believe that this year’s Seahawks is worse than last year’s Seahawks, and that’s saying something because last year’s team played more like a two-win team, at least according to their DVOA.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
Great post, Carl -- well written and argued. Watch out, though...
…incoming hoard of rabid fans about to GNN all over you, in 3…2…1…
Very nice post.
I especially appreciate the point about Sims. The O-line has not looked good.
Part of the question has to do with potential. I see more potential and future value in Thomas, say, and Williams/Butler/Tate, and value it more than what Grant and/or Housh represent. But again, that’s a judgment call, and in the end, you could be right.
While I don’t agree the team is getting worse, I do agree that the overhaul has been drastic, and if the Seahawks become the Rams/Lions of 2010, then you are utterly correct in your assessment. I think the team will struggle to reach .500, even with the easy schedule, but I also believe that the right steps have been taken to lay a foundation for future success.
But I’ll admit now – I could be dead wrong. I was the past two years at this time.
Props to the both of you if you read it in its entirety
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I read in its entirity
Needs more recs.
Or maybe a fanpost!
Sorry, I just love thoughtful stuff.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Whoops, that sounds shitty, let me redo...
I enjoyed that read, so I rec’d it. More people should read it, so rather than it be buried here, you should fanpost it.
Sure. I'll have to clean it up some errors, and edite a sentence or two to make it concise.
But yeah, why not?
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 6, 2010 2:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with those great examples of the team being worse than they could be right now.
But that’s not the same as being worse than a year ago, which I thought was your argument.
I think there are a lot of examples of players who are new to the team that make it better “long term” than it was a year ago. Last season, we held onto veterans over young talent far too much, and allowed youth to leave to other teams to try and have the “best team on the field.” I believe that our future is a lot brighter right now than a year ago, and that even if we were putting our “best team on the field” this year, we would not be SB bound this year, and be stunting our growth towards the SB in the future.
I’m not interested in putting the absolute best team on the field this year, signing Terrell Owens, trading for Brandon Marshall the amount he went for, and whatever else we could do to mortgage the future for the present. I still agree with many of your points, Rob Sims and Josh Wilson, and many more could be helping this team.
But Houshmandzadeh? Once he knew he was on his way out, they had to cut him. They should have done it quietly and tried to trade him after a few weeks, but maybe one of the teams the Seahawks talked to (The Vikings?) leaked it to the media. The Vikings and us still have bad blood, and considering the Vikings just passed on Housh, I could see them leaking it just to hurt us. It did not make sense keeping him around just to try and trade him once that got out, their hand was forced. Probably Seahawks management’s fault, haven’t seen great job of press management from them yet, but no way to really know.
I thought I had illustrated with the examples of the players from last year that are no longer with the team and their current replacements
That this year’s team was worse than the team we fielded heading into last year? I mean, I think we can all agree that the team is worse than they could be right now, but I am curious to know where and how I didn’t satisfy my argument that the team that they are fielding heading into the season are worse than the one that they fielded a year ago. (I’m not trying to be a smart ass, I’m really asking).
I do agree that the situation with Houshmandzadeh was probably poorly handled, and probably should have been done quietly. That said, I like that they told him though. It seemed to show that if they were going to trade him, they had enough respect for him as a professional that they were going to give him the professional courtesy of knowing what’s up. That’s something I can definitely respect.
I think though, that the option of keeping him was still viable if no acceptable trade offers were on the table. What’s the worst that Houshmandzadeh would have done? Demanded a trade? I would have been OK with that, in that in trading him, the Seahawks still got something in return rather than outright cutting him. If not, keeping him still means that the Seahawks have a proven commodity who produces.
I hope that I didn’t give the impression that had the Seahawks kept those players that I cited, that they’d be mortgaging their future. That was never my intent. I have never suggested that the Seahawks should sign someone like Terrell Owens. I was for the Brandon Marshall trade, but not for a second round pick.
While I’m OK with the Seahawks not necessarily fielding the absolute best team, I am interested in them fielding a team that best gives them the chance to win each year, rather than a team that’s seemingly designed to be worse than it was the year before – that might sound like the same thing, but it’s not.
The key thing that I want while fielding a team that best gives the Seahawks a chance to win each year, is for the front office to be cognizant of and to at least try to replenish key talent at key positions. Much remains to be seen if that’s what the front office intends to do. To their credit, they have at least made an effort to draft a future left tackle, and they made a trade for a quarterback they believe they might be able to transition with for the next few years.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 6, 2010 2:00 AM PDT up reply actions
A lot to answer to.
I start by answering in the most basic terms I can. I haven’t seen you really attack the full roster at the start of last season vs now, just mention specific players. I’ll work from the start of 2009, compared to now.
QB – I’ll take the potential of Whitehurst over the potential of Seneca, even with Teel attached. Seneca had a long time to develop, and was a servicable backup, but was not terribly good. Not trusting Charlie to become the man of the future, but the possibility is at least there.
RB – The starting backfield included Julius Jones and Edgerrin James. Forsett hadn’t even been given a chance. He’s one of the few who was allowed to play, but due to a JJ injury rather than winning in practice. I’ll take Ganther, Washington, and Forsett over Jones, James, and Griffith, who incidentally was a decent FB. We just added Michael Robinson, who apparently is a special teams guru (I’d call him Jeff Ulbrich’s contribution), and also a capable FB, HB, or goal line back in a pinch.
TE - Have to believe there is more potential here with McCoy, but not a lot different.
WR - Loss of Housh from a year ago, and Burleson vs the addition of Golden Tate and Mike Williams. Better long term, worse now. But Mike Williams could be MUCH better than Housh, and Tate could be MUCH better than Burleson.
OL - John already said this, so I’m not going to claim credit. But I agree that the improvement of Okung over Locklear at LT beats losing Sims for Hamilton. But right now, RT is a question mark. I think Stacey Andrews has good talent, don’t know what our OL scheme is supposed to be any more. A power ZBS? A traditional ZBS? Are we just worrying about pass blocking and we’ll figure out the run game later? I can’t say it’s worse than last year, I’ll take Okung and the fact that we are still starting Spencer over last season.
So offensively, a clear step down at WR, but one I think we are well-positioned to make. I think you’ll see clear upgrades in the passing game’s production due to scheme, so I don’t think we’ll feel the downgrade. Otherwise, we are the roughly the same (QB, TE, OL) while upgrading potential, or clearly better (RB).
As I said, scheme I believe is better, so a net improvement on the offense both in long term potential and this year’s results.
by cashless on Sep 6, 2010 2:35 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Once again,
We could have kept Rob Sims and Houshmandzadeh and we would have a better offense still. I believe that is the point you want to make. But I do feel that the offense is better off now than it was a year ago. Not only in talent and scheme, but also long term viability.
Cashless,
With the exception of mentioning Butler at WR, who I think is poised for a breakout season, you have just reiterated my original post that started this entire discussion.
My contention was that the team was better this year than last (not a difficult thing to accomplish given how poor the team was last year) and that is what Carl disagreed with.
So we are going around a bit in circles.
But I agree with your assessment above, except I think Butler makes the WRs better this year than last.
I'll admit to not having read what you wrote in a while.
I just looked, and you did pretty much the same thing I did. I just spent an extra sentence or two per position doing the same thing you did.
Defense
Safety - This time last year it was “Ding! Dong! The Witch is dead!” as we celebrated the Brian Russell cut. It sure felt like Babineaux would be leaps and bounds better by default, but then it got confusing as Grant continued to play SS and we let Courtney Greene get away for seemingly no good reason. Anyway, We had Babs and Grant starting, signed Milloy, and had Adams backing up? Now we have Earl Thomas and Milloy starting, with Chance on the roster (so far) representing the Courtney Greene potential, and…Ness? Whoever the 4th safety turns out to be, I see it as either a wash between 09 and 10 and a huge improvement in potential, or better today, and a home run in potential.
CB - Last year was Trufant, Lucas, Josh Wilson, Jennings. Or rather, Travis Fisher for Trufant, but the back problem is unrelated to the discussion. Now it’s Trufant, Thurmond III, Jennings, Roy Lewis. As much as Trufant is better this year, it’s no different than if Hasselbeck is better this year. Josh Wilson and Lucas vs T3 and Roy Lewis? Gotta lean towards last year, I don’t think Thurmond can reach 2009 Josh Wilson level yet, but he looks like he’ll be far better than any version of Josh Wilson by next year or the year after.
LB - Not going to comment, the same top 4 players, but this year we have Davis as the 5th. No real difference unless it’s health and suspension related.
DT - Last year was Mebane, Cole, Terrell, Bryant. This year seems to be Mebane, Cole, Terrell, Balmer, and swap out Vickerson for Savaii if the rumors are true. With Red still able to kick inside during passing downs. Gonna say it’s no different. If rumors are wrong and we have Vickerson, I’d call it improved, but the rumors are rarely wrong.
DE -Last year, Kearney, Tapp, Lo-Jack, Corey Redding, Nick Reed. This year, Clemons and Davis on one side, Red Bryant, EJ Wilson and Balmer on the other. Kearney was not the same last year, I’d say Red and Redding are close enough. Redding the more polished player, Red the more powerful. Balmer vs Lo-Jack isn’t a conversation that matters, Clemons vs Tapp is interesting, but Tapp was the better player. EJ Wilson is intriguing, no idea if he’s worth anything. Gotta give 09 the edge on Tapp vs Clemons, but grudgingly, as we also got a 4th out of it. While Kearney, Lo-Jack, and Redding were the other main players. Overall, I like neither squad. I’ll give it to 09, but can’t really call either group good.
Scheme? I’ll take this group, despite consternation over the one-dimensional aspects at the two DE spots. The secondary, especially the safety spots have clear roles and talents to match them, improvement over last year. The scheme is asking Curry to rush, probably a good idea, even if it doesn’t work. And the scheme seems to have turned Red Bryant into a more useful player. The front 7’s roles seem to be clearly defined, instead of a cluster-fuck with no forethought.
Defense I feel similar to offense.
Scheme and talent usage is better. A lot of units are not much different. CB there is a clear downgrade, with a brighter future, but with Trufant’s return it’ll probably be overall better than a year ago. Love what they are doing at safety. And the front 7 gives us cause to predict 5-11 seasons, but still, likely better usage of parts of it.
Once again, we could have kept Tapp and Josh Wilson, and Deon Grant. I think looking at it now, switching Tapp for Clemons and a 4th, when Tapp was an expiring contract, is not a bad deal, and at worst a lateral move. Josh Wilson as nickle with Trufant and T3 would have been bad-ass in 2 years and I don’t like it any more today than I did then. But Josh Wilson isn’t the only nickle back that would make it great. It is after all, the nickle position.
Grant at this point wouldn’t really play, but take a roster spot from a young developmental guy, but when we dropped him was a real head-scratcher. Overall, I’d call the defense at or above the level of last year, almost entirely due to scheme, while being miles ahead in potential, mostly in the secondary.
by cashless on Sep 6, 2010 3:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Special teams seem improved to me.
Same boots, better returners in Tate and Washington, and maybe Thurmond III, as much as that scares me. Real effort put in to improve special teams players. First Morey, Obomanu is still here, and now Michael Robinson signed.
No clues as to scheme.
I completely disagree with one of your primary premises
That the Seahawks FO cares at all about being better this year.
I don’t believe that they do.
I think they are building to about two or so years from now and could care less about winning right now.
Am I the only one who cheered with Julius Jones being cut?
That eases the pain of Vickerson. And hell, at least it wasn’t Mebane… haha. This will be an interesting few days.
I kinda cheered
It was a “meh” move. I assume Ganther is the RB/FB hybrid for short yardage.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
He could be back
JJ and Babs both had roster bonuses. Cutting them so late in the game means they may be available to re-sign if they don’t go somewhere else.
I’ll be a little surprised if anyone picks up Jones.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I cheered.
Wait, I’m still cheering. Can we pickup Tashard Choice for cheap now?
Red Bryant: surprise us!
Dammit you don't know how much I wanted to pull the Housh for Choice deal.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Heh,
When I saw an article saying “Dallas fielding offers for Choice and Barber” I immediately thought about Choice to Seattle. Many are fans of him around these parts, including JM.
Red Bryant: surprise us!
I wish the Seahawks could try their hand at trading for Felix Jones
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
his potential is reaching mythic proportions among the Dallas fandom
that’s not gonna happen
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
You're not the only one.
But it’s not as if I hollered with joy like I did the day that Russell was cut.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Only one surefire fan-acclaimed bum left to cut:
And his name rhymes with ‘egg’.
Red Bryant: surprise us!
Fred Fregg?
The strategy of our FO is to be unscoutable. This strategy is attained and maintained
by a weekly 35% roster turnover. Mebane for a fourth. Boo-yah!
by broadbill birdwatcher on Sep 5, 2010 2:22 PM PDT reply actions
Pat Ruell
So, does that mean that the ZBS is out now?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Maybe Gibbs got cut
you, you, and you… cut, cut, aaaaaannnnndddd cut.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Is it possible that the reports of Vickerson getting cut are innacurate?
Why would the FO confirm the later cuts of the day and not the initial ones?
OOOOOH!!!!! That was NASTY!!!!!!!!
Yes, unlikely though.
I sure do hope that you are right. As some of our waiver picks keep getting beat, maybe some of the rumored cuts won’t happen.
It's possible
From the way some journos talked it sounds like these players were told they were going to be cut but not yet actually cut. However, the Vickerson thing seems directly related to Siavii (a FA signing, not a waiver claim). Perhaps that signing is waiting on a medical stamp of approval
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 6, 2010 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions
If thats the case, if were going to cut Vickerson, why wait for the signing of Siavii?
Also, if someone from our FO knew about this, and told Sheister or whatever his name is, wouldn’t that be like insider trading?
I just don’t understand why our FO would be so mum on this move but were all over the later moves of the day.
OOOOOH!!!!! That was NASTY!!!!!!!!
Need to complete the incoming transactions first
The departures of Babineaux, Schmitt, Vickerson and perhaps Jones won’t become official until Seattle gets replacements signed. Junior Siavii, a former Oregon player released Saturday by Dallas, was headed to Seattle with the expectation he will replace Vickerson at tackle. Michael Robinson, a special-teams mainstay in San Francisco the past four years, is also expected to sign with the Seahawks.
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