The Day The Roster Didn't Stand Still, part II
See part I of the fun here.
1:48pm Brian McIntyre reports Seahawks dropped FB Owen Schmitt, signed ex-49er RB Michael Robinson.
1:51pm off-topic as Chris Mortensen reports we hired former USC Oline coach and 30-year coaching vet Pat Ruel to replace Alex Gibbs.
2:32pm it ain't easy on the players either. BMW tweet A lot of ppl I was coo w/ won't be @ the VMAC tomm.. The next cpl days will be a lil throwed off
3:28pm Adam Schefter reports we were one of the teams that had put in a claim for TE Spencer Havner. We need more TEs?
3:30pm Again from Schefter, we claimed former Packers G Evan Deietrich-Smith and Dolphins DB Nate Ness off waivers. Both are 2009 UFAs and presumably PS players.
3:40pm From the Seahawks tweet, we released S Kevin Ellison, C Steve Vallos, G Mansfield Wrotto. The trade for G/T Stacy Andrews has been completed and he is now on our roster.
over 1 year ago
Thomas Beekers
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I wonder if Ruel will retire after 4 weeks
This team just drains the life out of you.
by J.L. White on Sep 5, 2010 1:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
PERFECT first post.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Sep 5, 2010 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I was kind of a fan of the idea of keeping continuity as strong as we could by promoting from within
But getting ruel, who worked with PC for 5 years, is a 30-year vet (tho mostly in college) and worked with Bates last year, would seem to make a modicum of sense
Also hard to hate someone whose name is Golden Pat Ruel
Golden Rule, baby
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
M-Rob is a stud on special teams
we’re pretty bitter about that cut over at Niners Nation. Two-time Pro-Bowl alternate which is impressive considering all he does is special teams.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Is Ruel a ZBS guy?
If not, a weird hire. If so, what’s his experience with the system?
I can't say I know him but I don't think he is
He’s mostly a college O-line coach, they don’t do a lot of ZBS there do they? Regardless, bit of digging brigns up quotes like:
Carroll didn’t bring Pat Ruel with him to Seattle because his offensive coordinator, Jeremy Bates, wanted a zone-blocking specialist to coach the offensive line.
In fact I see some notes of Bates and Ruel not seeing eye-to-eye even at USC
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
After running ZBS all preseason, I'm not sure the team changes their scheme right before the first game
But they might slowly move away from the ZBS. Actually, I have no clue one way or the other, to be honest.
Thanks. Looking further down in those notes, though...
a poster definitely refers to “our zone blocking scheme”…
More confusion. How appropriate for today.
I think he means Bates brought in a ZBS
And that is what Ruel and Bates butted heads over.
But honestly, I barely watch the college game. Hopefully someone else has better knowledge of the situation.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Greg Johns at the PI "confirms"...
“Ruel’s arrival would seemingly keep some continuity in the Seahawks’ system, given USC ran a similar style and Gibbs advised Carroll’s staff on the zone-blocking scheme on a voluntary basis.”
Right
so maybe he’s more suited for the NFL, but I worry that reuniting him with people who he didn’t have a lot of success in working with last year isn’t really going to work again.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Continuity is everything on the O-line.
Attritition kils in CFB. His improvement stands to reason, particularly given the scheme.
by THolt on Sep 6, 2010 7:32 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Can that all be attributed to the coordinator?
They did start a true freshman at QB….
by Woodinville_12thMan on Sep 5, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
They still had a pretty high level offensive line
and a ton of depth at running back.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
From everything I've read on Bates,
when he went to USC he ran the USC offense that was already in place, rather than install his offense that he learned under Shanahan. So I’m not all that worried about how he ran someone elses offense.
by Mind of no mind on Sep 6, 2010 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions
There's a lot of ZBS at the college level
Oregon and Florida State, for example.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
There is?
I kind of figured they’d prefer less complex schemes, since you’re working with younger people.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
At the same time, it's hard for colleges to get 5 decent lineman assembled every season
So having a built-in scheme to teach newbies might help hide some of their inadequacies.
I don't think the ZBS is that complex.
I think it is simpler to teach than man-to-man.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
For the center, sure, I can agree with that. But that also applies to man-to-man, as well.
But for the rest, it’s actually relatively simple: You block a zone, rather than a specific player. Each lineman accounts for a specific space.
It’s why Gibbs didn’t have his men do one-on-one drills.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
The advantage of this is that it eliminates more negative plays.
Gibbs, always believed that it’s not what you average, but what you consistently gain.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I can agree with John about one thing:
College football is home to many specialized offenses.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
This is truth
I’d rather a 4 yard run average that varies by 1 yard each way than a 5 yard average that varies 5 yards each way.
Example:
four carries of 4, 5, 4 and 3 yards respectively is better for your offense than a 6 yard run, a run for 0 yards, a run for -2 yards, and a run for 11 yards.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
by smileyman on Sep 5, 2010 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your math...
Runs of 4,5,4, & 3 yards = 4.0 ypc
Runs of 6,0,-2,11 yards = 3.75 ypc
nitpick 1: I doubt that level of consistency is possible. If you had a rushing average of just 3.1 ypc with linear variance of +/- 1 yard, then four consecutive runs would produce a 1st down 97% of the time. That translates to scoring a touchdown on ~82% of all drives (starting from the 32).
nitpick 2: One reason that won’t work is that defenses adapt, especially in short-yardage situations. Is the ZBS better on 3rd and 1? I really don’t know, but the paradigm of smaller, more athletic linemen who block an “area” seems best suited to an offense that spreads the field (and thus the defense). It seems like bigger, stronger, 1-on-1 blockers would have the advantage in short-yardage situations.
nitpick 3: A running game can make your passing game better, but only if it’s a legitimate threat. The super-consistent 4 ypc offense hypothetically works if that’s all you do, but it’s a bad complement to the passing game.
Specifically, what happens after an incomplete pass on 1st down? Or a combination of plays that leads to 3rd and 6? A more dynamic, even if more variable, rushing attack can pose a legitimate threat in these situations. But a low-ceiling ZBS forces you to pass, making your offense predictable.
by Jason_D on Sep 6, 2010 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice catch on the math.
However, I tend to agree with the ZBS principle, because a boom or bust rusher is still less valuable than a mediocre pass game. A 10-20 yard rush three times a game, a bunch of short gains or losses scattered between -2 and 3 yards, and a few plays in the middle of the two, a la Reggie Bush, resembles a passing game but contributes much less.
The premium NFL example of a ZBS team, the Denver Broncos, was not a low-ceiling team. Justin Forsett averaged well over 5 YPC behind a line that Julius Jones and Edgerrin James struggled all year behind. In fact, the 4 YPC baseline is more of a minimum than an average. The long runs still come, but on the backs of consistent gains along the way. If the team can achieve that 4 +/- 1 level, then it’s worth it, and Gibbs was able to do it without investing high draft picks or FA contracts into his Broncos line.
About nItpick 3. 2nd and 5-7 is much easier to throw out of, and the PA works much better, if you have that run that the front 7 just can’t stuff. The run game doesn’t have to be a home run threat to make the defense honor it. Balance benefits passing efficiency.
About nitpick 2. I would tend to agree with you, but those smaller linemen have to win their blocks in a ZBS just like a normal single-blink system. Just the definition of success is different. The smaller lineman has to turn his man, and the double-team takes care of the point of attack.
I have school to work on, so I won’t go further, but I’d love to discuss nitpick 1 with you later if you are down. In the meantime, this is the read that most of us who like the ZBS and believe that consistency is possible have learned the most from. FSU’s Understanding Zone Blocking and Florida State’s Offensive Line.
Yeah that's a great article
there’s also a couple of youtube videos floating around—one from some Houston Texans players and about 1 1/2 hrs worth of one of the top Kansas City high school coaches breaking it down for the high school level.
I’ll have to come back to the rest of the argument later when I’ve got some more time.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
YouTube clips
All of these clips are geared for a high school football team but the coach explaining does a great job breaking the system down to it’s fundamentals. Well worth taking the time to watch them.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
my math sucks
thanks for correcting it
nitpick 1: you’re right, that kind of consistency in football is impossible—but it’s what I’d rather have than big swings (unless we’re talking Brian Setzer or the Cherry Poppin’ Daddies of course).
nitpick 2: you’re right again. ZBS is difficult to impossible in short yardage situations which is why you’d bring in your tackle eligible or two TE sets for thsoe.
nitpick 3: I’ve never gone for the “run to set up the pass” mentality. You have to have both. For the 49ers our running game noticeably improved when Alex Smith took over the offense. Why? Because not there was a legitimate pass threat and defenses couldn’t stack the box. the key to offensive success in the NFL relies on being able to run when you want to and pass when you want to, regardless of which comes first.
However, Denver has had very successful offensive systems and they almost exclusively use a ZBS in both pass and run situations (though I’d have to go back to last season’s games to look for short yardage situations and how they treated those). ZB in a passing situation is actually very effective and I think it’s one of the reasons why Ryan Clady had such a great rookie season in 2008 (0 sacks allowed, which is incredible).
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Zone blocking
it’s more complicated to learn that regular man-to-man, but once you’ve learned the system it’s far easier to execute in game time situations.
Part of the problem with learning a ZBS is unlearning everything you’ve been taught all your football life.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I wouldn't go as far as unlearn everything
I think the real key to it is unit cohesion. You make a lot of decisions assuming what the guy next to you is going to do. If you are wrong about what he is going to do, at best you run into eachother, worse you let someone through untouched.
Most of the scouting reports I read on Charles Brown, the LT from USC,
said that he was already familar with the ZBS on account of the fact that he played in it at USC.
by Mind of no mind on Sep 6, 2010 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions
And probably make Carroll one and done if they suck.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
We could bring in Lane Kiffen!
by Trojan Knight on Sep 5, 2010 3:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I never expected Bates to stick around Carroll for more than 2 years
So really this would just be him speeding up the inevitable.
[DELETED ZOMG NO POLITICS]
Here's an interesting tweet
Curtis Crabtree Pete Carroll had Alex Gibbs come in at USC and teach coaches on his zone blocking philosophy. Obviously trying to keep continuity in scheme.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok. There's the connection I was looking for...
At least there’s some commonality there.
On the bright side, maybe Ruel will allow his charges to share OL witticisms with us through the media now. I was so missing those…
It's basically ...
… a running joke over at Niners Nation in regards to the Seahawks signing ex-49ers castoffs, but it is all in good fun. I’ll say right now that Michael Robinson deserves a spot on any NFL roster and he’ll be a guy who leads your special teams unit for as long as he’s here, and he’ll do it very well. The one thing this offseason done by a division rival that I really, really do not feel good about. Didn’t care about Coffee, Balmer, Jones, etc.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
You can make as many running jokes as you like
But please do come up with a better moniker than Seachickens.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep. Otherwise I'll have bust out
The FortySteiners. That’ll be sure to make everyone gag.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
by Nick Andron on Sep 5, 2010 2:07 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I've personally never said it.
I prefer the other, more graphic name. But in reality, I generally don’t think about the Seahawks at all when it comes to division rivals, no offense.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I can imagine a team that hasn't won the division in 8 years can't spend too much time thinking about "rivals". After all, what's it in rivalry for?
Oh, snap, I went there.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah.. thanks, I guess.
Hospitality is fantastic. Came over to tell you guys that you made a good signing, and this. Actually, if you really want to know, it’s because the Seahawks are largely irrelevant to myself over the history of my NFL fandom. Yes, I do realize we haven’t won the division in quite a while, but I’m not talking wins and losses, I’m talking “teams I have a problem with,” and that would be the Rams more so than you guys.
Or was this supposed to be a pissing contest?
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Heh, come now, it's all in good fun
Always trying to build up divisional rivalry, I am, and the Niners are easily the least likeable fanbase in the NFC West. Gotta get that divisional fightin’ spirit in!
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
It's all good.
For what it’s worth, I’ve already identified the Seahawks as the biggest threat to my 49ers this year.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Well, to be honest ...
… I identified you as the threat last year, so … maybe I’ll have the same luck with that this year.
Derek Anderson sure is awful, though. I remember when Niners Nation and Revenge Of The Birds (they’re great guys over there, by the way) had a cross-blogging bit this offseason, we all went over there to talk about the team and they insisted mightily that Matt Leinart, despite being worse every time he’s started in this league, was more reason to feel good than Alex Smith.
I had a good hearty laugh that lasted all the way from then until about five minutes ago.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Aye, I kept an eye on their Leinart coverage all off-season
It was…interesting to see how they would dismiss any negative reports and got behind him 100%.
Good on them, but they were also dead wrong.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
It's like ...
… I don’t think Alex Smith will be a pro bowler, but at least every time he’s played, he’s made forward progress. I can’t believe how out of line they thought I was in thinking he was better than Matt Leinart.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
At the same time, you Niner fans are hanging a lot on (not even) 10 games from last season
Don’t get too cocky with Smith back there.
There's not a bit of cockiness in me when it comes to him.
I’m looking at all his playing time and an awful lot of bad circumstance, and I think we’ll be alright. Not a pro bowl quarterback, again, but we’ll be straight, I think.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
With the talent surrounding Smith, the 49ers don't need a Pro Bowl quarterback.
They need a “Trent Dilfer”. If Alex Smith manages the offense and minimizes his mistakes, the 49ers should be playoff-bound.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Alex Smith is only gonna get them to the playoffs though.
And if the goal is to win a championship, they’re gonna need more than Alex Smith, and pretty soon if they wanna win it all. They have a nice young core on defense and offense. I would be comfortable saying they are a franchise QB away from being a Superbowl contender.
Favre ain't a franchise QB anymore.
And besides, he’s on the Vikings. I was thinking more Matty Ice or Flacco or hell, Chad Henne. Just any QB with top ten upside would be better than Alex Smith.
*For their future.
Alex Smith is definitely their best option right now, and he should be able to take them to the playoffs this year. Would I bet on him once they’re there? No way.
I'm not even going to speculate on that.
He’s looked good. He can get them the ball right now.. that’s what I’ll focus on, he’s our best option at the moment.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Yep, and there is no shame in that.
Getting to the playoffs for the first time in almost a decade is a great step forward.
Max Hall will be the starter in AZ before the year's out
mark my words.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Really?
I find Rams fans to be the least likeable…
by Woodinville_12thMan on Sep 5, 2010 2:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Nah, I just feel bad for them.
I’ve hated the Niners since I was in grade school, when the PNW was filled with bandwagon dirtbags wearing ugly red and gold Starter parkas.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Other than you guys are our 1st game, we don't think much about the 49ers either
As someone right above me just said, you guys haven’t won a division crown in 8 years.
Seahawks picking up scraps
Is a claim any team in the NFL can make. We made over 150 roster moves as far as I know, most teams will have seen their players pass through our roster sooner or later.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, the only roster moves any team can make that doesn't include players from different teams is the draft
Recycling players is a way of life in the NFL.
But he plays special teams, which is something your third running back really needs to be able to do.
I’d love to know more about his pass catching and pass blocking abilities.
Other than Robinson and Balmer, what other former Niners do we still have?
If that’s a running joke, then I question your sense of humor.
Defensive much?
It was just funny to say things like “Seattle has a bus out at the 49ers facility as they make roster cuts,” and the like. It’s no secret that Scot McCloughan is there now, and it’s no secret that he has ample say and is the point-person when it comes to bringing these guys in.
Really does not matter at all.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
McCloughan has ample say?
Is that a statement you can back up or one of those made-up things “people just know”?
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Ample say in those guys coming in is pretty darn easy to believe.
You might be the only one who thinks it needs proof.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Oh, I have no doubt they heard his opinion on it since he has good information
That does not actually give him ample say on any actual roster moves tho’, does it?
Is this the only support you can add to your supposition? Then it is indeed just that, a supposition. We didn’t bring in McLoughlan to manage our roster, as far as I know.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't say that he'd have ample say in signing and other roster moves.
But if you think he’s not the catalyst for the ‘Hawks being on the phone for the Balmer trade, flying in Brandon Jones and the signing of Michael Robinson … well … then I don’t know, to be honest with you. I never said he’s the trigger man, but he lined up the shot.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Oh wow, didn't even think about this ...
… but I bet Jeff Ulbrich had some say in this as well.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Linkage
-Q: I guess there’s no coincidence that Balmer and Brandon Jones ended up in Seattle…
-McCLOUGHAN: They’re guys that I know as players and as people. Just knew that they’d be a good fit and bring some talent, to make us a better football team.
The one positive about knowing them so well, it’s not just the player on the field, it’s practice player, film room, guy off the field that I also know very well. They have some talent. That’s the bottom line when it’s said and done.
Make what you want out of it.
1. Pat Devlin QB 2. Jack Crawford DE/OLB 3. Kendric Burney CB 4. DeAndre Brown WR 4. K.J Wright OLB 5. John Estes C 6. Brandon Saine RB 6. Chris Hairston OT 7. Demarlo Belcher WR 7. Julian Posey CB
I didn't deny his knowledge is relevant
The decision is still not his to make.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Never said it was.
I never said he’s the trigger man, but he lined up the shot.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Yip
Once you made that clarification I basically saw your angle…which I could’ve put in a reply rather than just stop replying (sorry about that).
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Fair point
But you should see how many ex-Seahawks there are in Detroit now. It is un-fucking-believable. We call them the Seatroit Sealions now.
Hahaha. That's a good one.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Well, we don't use the FB that much, so Schmitt was on thin ice for awhile
Ganther should suffice as a quasi-fullback for now on.
Robinson was average-to-good at fullback for the 49ers, as well.
He’s a guy that can make blocks when he gets a little room to move, so he’s ideal for emergency situations.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
This makes the Robinson signing an even better fit for this team
I like this move….doesn’t make up for cutting Vickerson, though. That one still stings.
Admittedly, I'm very upset we cut him.
The 49ers have had “really good,” coverage on special teams for years and years, and that’s because of guys like Jeff Ulbrich, Scot McKillop, Marcus Hudson and Michael Robinson. Now all of them, and their backups, are gone in one fell swoop..
We’ll be fine because of some of the younger guys like Mays and Bowman but I shudder to think of second and third round picks playing so much special teams.
Basically the only thing about this offseason I don’t like.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I was surprised, to be sure.
It wasn’t something I was overly concerned with, though. Nobody saw it coming, but Anthony Dixon quickly made me forget about him and his 2.7 YPA.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Coffee ran 5.6 in last year's pre-season, no?
Look at how that turned out in the regular season. I would hold off a bit on popping the bubbly for Dixon.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I would read more into my opinion before assuming I'm popping the bubbly...
…I’ve been saying the same thing you just said for weeks on Niners Nation. I’m saying that the last time I saw Coffee, he pulled a 2.7 YPA in the regular season. I liked the guy, but I wasn’t overly concerned. He was a massive reach where we picked him, anyway.
Frank Gore and Brian Westbrook are plenty to make me alright with Coffee being gone.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
:salute:
Good, common sense. And agreed. Gore is elite. Westbrook…was, but should still be able to bring it in bursts.
Dixon’s more for the future than right now, yesno.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Westbrook could bring a lot to the offense.
Or he could not. It’s a coinflip. Personally, I hope Jimmy Raye has the smarts (and Westbrook isn’t hurt) to line up Gore and Westbrook both in the backfield at the same time a few times this year. With Vernon Davis and Crabtree as well, what do you do? Who do you guard? Both RB can catch and both can run, Davis can stay in to block, or go out, etc. Gore can pick up blitzes really well, so can Westbrook. Just a whole dynamic that will either do many things for this offense, or do absolutely nothing.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Hate to say it because I love the player Westbrook is when healthy
But he’s one stiff breeze away from a career-ending concussion. It will scare me watching him taking any kind of hit.
I never liked Coffee
Didn’t have much hopes for him. It certainly was a shocker but I think it worked out well for us in the end with Westbrook coming in as a FA and the potential that Dixon seems to have.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
http://twitter.com/BMW_USC1
And yeah, SSReporters, player’s tweets often hurt my eyes. The use of shorthand in twitter is just technical, but they often throw spelling right out the window. Oh well.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I try not to follow players.
I do follow Hass, however, and a few others. I mostly follow the guys that break the stories.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Freeing money up.
I know if it were going to happen it probably would have happened yesterday but anyone thinking that we are releasing/freeing up money for an acquisition?
No I think we have to steer clear of that ship.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Yeah, he'll be great for you guys, I think.
Really sucks to say that. A lot of us are just confused more than anything.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
We've had our fair share of confusion so in ways we're right there with you.
Should be a very interesting first game of the season. I’m grateful it’s in Seattle ;)
by twocolorcrayon on Sep 5, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Confused?
Oh. You have no idea man.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
This sounds like a subject we could all share a drink over.
Augh.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Indeed
/scratches head with squeaky noise.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Sure.. pull up a chair
Let me tell you about this Josh Wilson guy…
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow - no moves for a few hours
Schneider taking a nap? Or maybe his internet is down
by m_b on Sep 5, 2010 2:46 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm mostly wondering
Why Stacy Andres still hasn’t been announced as signed.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
deal points perhaps?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
physicals?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
It's been approved
Otherwise the Iggles couldn’t have resigned their guys already.
But the physical might indeed be holding it up. I dunno.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Some giggles out there
Seahawk Addicts RT @tobinshack this just in. The Seahawks cut the landscaping crew at VMAC because they were jealous of all the cutting they were doing.
Jerry Brewer @seahawkbluecom Always Compete, unless you can’t. Then, Shuffle Forever.
(Aaron Curry is still periodically tweeting wtfs)
I bet Curry starts blindly shooting, leaving himself exposed, and factoring out of the game.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
by SSreporters on Sep 5, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
LEEEERROOOYYYY!!!!
OOOOOH!!!!! That was NASTY!!!!!!!!
by bmxnw on Sep 5, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE?
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Had me laughing.
Link for the guys who didn’t get it.
by cashless on Sep 5, 2010 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
CLASSIC.
I started cracking up the second I read LEEEROOOOOYYYYYY!!!!
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Sep 5, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
*winces*
Danny O’Neil #Seahawks drafted 37 players under Tim Ruskell. Twenty are no longer #Seahawks not counting Ray Willis (IR) and Leroy Hill (suspended).
QUICK TRADE A 5th TO DETROIT FOR HAVNER!
Gotta have him!
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Did Homer Simpson
from the episode “Bart Star” suddenly start running this team? “Shushy….your cut…..”
by Farrell on Sep 5, 2010 3:29 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
We're not done yet
Adam Schefter is reporting that the Seahawks have claimed Packers guard Evan Deietrich-Smith and former Dolphins defensive back Nate Ness..
Finally filling out the practice squad a bit
QB Zac Robinson, CB Ross Weaver, G Evan Deietrich-Smith, DB Nate Ness. Presumably.
Would that be Schneider getting tazed?
Or is that Pete?
by PhoneHomeET29 on Sep 5, 2010 3:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Jets released FB Tony Richardson
That would be an interesting pickup. Doesn’t fit the youth movement, but still.
Errr, so...
Released S Ellison, C Vallos, G/T Wrotto. Claimed G Dietrich-Smith and DB Ness off waivers. Trade for Andrews now complete.
There goes some O-line depth I didn’t expect to go.
26 players left from last year’s roster?
Honest answer: I have absolutely no idea.
Apparently Deietrich-Smith and Ness don’t go to the PS since they’re waiver claims. So we have 2 in PS (Robinson and Weaver), and then…
Added: Junior Siavii, Michael Robinson, Evan Deietrich-Smith, Nate Ness, Tracy Spencer
Cut: Kevin Vickerson, Julius Jones, Jordan Babineaux, Owen Schmitt, Kevin Ellison, Steve Vallos, Mansfield Wrotto
5 added, 7 cut. So 51 players.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Tracy Spencer = Stacy Andrews
Weirdest mistype ever
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel like Ness might take Cox's spot on the roster, but until that happens it's 51.
It just seems like we’ve got a lot less than 51 after today.
Had a class
with Ness at the U of A. Really nice guy. Glad he’s a Hawk.
wow
head is spinning
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
What the hell?
Why dump Wrotto?
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 5, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess it slipped PC's mind while he was clear-cutting the roster
Hopefully the team plants some Wrotto seeds so that the offensive line will regrow in the next 30-40 years.
by J.L. White on Sep 5, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is getting fucking weird.
I’m holding all judgement until after some games, but, I don’t even know what the fuck to think anymore
by twocolorcrayon on Sep 5, 2010 3:50 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I stopped trying to make sense of the whole thing days ago.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Same here
But I can’t say I’m not worried when a team spends months in camp and then cuts/waives a LOT of pieces of the puzzle.
A week before game 1.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
So... who's starting at LT on Sunday?
and is he even on the roster right now?
Andrews didn't play LT in Cincy did he?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Nope
Left Guard. We want to convert him to tackle, but him actually starting week 1 at that position seems somewhat unlikely.
Polumbus is probably it.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Thought Andrews played mostly RT for Cincy
They moved him to guard but he got hurt, then left for Philly. Thought he never really played much guard.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I'd imagine Polumbus.
Didn’t he start like 8 games for Denver last year?
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Lock?
for a week?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Please just let him rest
I’d rather lose the game than risk him. Even against the Niners
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Haven't played a game yet. Easy.
It’s not like we’re gutting a super bowl champ.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Thank you.
Way too much knee-jerking going on here the last few days.
OOOOOH!!!!! That was NASTY!!!!!!!!
Pretty understandable considering the wholesale restructuring that is taking place
But it is entertaining to watch the reactions. People fear change, even when something is bad in the first place.
by lemonverbena on Sep 5, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This isn't Madden, Carroll and Schneider.
Seriously. What the fuck are they doing.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
A global perspective (perhaps)
This was a 6 win roster last season without a lot of promise moving forward. I would absolutely quibble with their assessment of Josh Wilson, and to a slightly lesser extent Tapp.
Beyond that, I don’t know that in three months we will longingly miss just about anyone who is not with us anymore (from a performance perspective).
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Sep 5, 2010 4:01 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Yeah I think it's just adding Wrotto and Vallos on top of the other moves that makes it a bit upsetting.
I don’t think I’ll even remember them in a year.
I feel confident that I will miss having Houshmandzadeh and Wilson on the roster.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
just watch the Ravens
and you be all good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 6, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes dude
Good perspective, even though at this point I have been reduced to “wtf….?” when trying to figure out what the big idea is here.
Here may be what could be an uncomfortable truth:
There is no big idea.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I couldn't disagree more
Its about getting younger and recognizing that we aren’t good so blow it up and see what’s left.
There is a big idea, its just unconventional and you don’t like it (I understand the dislike of it)
How is trading Tapp and Wilson making the team younger?
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Vickerson for Siavii
not getting younger. There is a lack of consistancy in the assumed big idea.
Suffice to say that we don’t have a fucking clue what these guys are doing.
It's not young for young sake
The players have to be good. Tapp and Wilson are average. Yeah on a below average team they look good, but they are mediocre at best and if you have enough of those on your team you never EVER get better. You have to risk and go young and then jettison the bad (and there will be a ton). I’m not saying I agree, but this is basic CEO culture – when a new one takes over there is a ton of turnover – that is how it is done.
Is everyone just going to ignore how "getting younger" is a factually incorrect claim to make about our post-53 roster moves?
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Tapp was our best pass rusher (although that's not saying much)
And Josh Wilson has more interceptions in the last 2 seasons than Jennings and Trufant combined. Wilson is quality, not Pro Bowl quality, but he doesn’t have to be.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
And they're gone now.
It’s really not that huge of a deal. Is it slightly disconcerting and disappointing? Yeah, for sure.
We grew to love the guys that performed well on a team that didn’t.
It’s time to get over it =)
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
They're trading for late round draft picks who may not pan out (let alone make the team)
That’s getting younger?
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Getting younger?
Junior Siavii (31) for Kevin Vickerson (27). Michael Robinson (27) for Owen Schmitt (25), Stacy Andrews (29) for Mansfield Wrotto (25). Sure, the two 2009 UFAs are young, but please tell me where in this process the team is getting younger.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I think a lot of the moves today and the past couple are just place holders
They are free roster fillers that are easy to get rid of next year when we go and get who we really want. Easier than getting rid of someone who the fans love.
I wasn't aware fans were that invested in Kevin Vickerson, Owen Schmitt and Mansfield Wrotto
I’m sorry about that really doesn’t explain anything.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I still haven't figured it out
Its the start of a thought. I think we will figure out what they are doing about a year from now.
Siavii is bizarre
I am hoping that more comes out on that. I’d REALLY like to know the thinking there. If they say something like Junior has experience in our system, I’ll be really dismayed. But yeah, that one looks like a whiff to me.
Robinson for Schmitt, to the extent that it’s a realistic “trade” is completely acceptable to me, considering fit in the outlook for Beer Truck. They both bring most of their value on special teams, and Robinson is a clear upgrade.
As for Wrotto, if the writeups John has posted are even in the ballpark accurate we made an upgrade at the tackles. Wrotto has failed to impress in multiple opportunities on a crappy line. I have never liked Vallos.
Ironically, Wrotto was an example of Ruskell’s predisposition for athletic-but-unskilled on the offensive line — a departure from his modus operandi at other positions.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I hated Vallos
And the home game against the Cardinals was the pinnacle of his suck.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
I wasn't arguing they are bad trades
Just that there is no “getting younger” plan PC appears to be following
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
That's basically true
I don’t know that the average age is declining at all, though that may have as much to do with the nature of transactions in the NFL where it’s hard to acquire young talent except through the draft.
I do think it’s fair to say that Carroll is willing to acquire and go with inexperienced players at some key positions (e.g., WR, LT, and who’d be shocked if Whitehurst is starting by week 8?).
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Could I add getting rid of Rob Sims for Ben Hamilton?
Ben Hamilton, by the way, who may or may not be on the roster next Sunday?
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Carl,
I am just getting caught up on the news, and replied to your nice long post on the previous topic, but at this point I have a question:
DON’T THE FIVE GUYS STARTING ON THE OFFENSIVE LINE NEED TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE OFFENSE BEFORE THEY PLAY?
Like, what play was just called; what system they are playing in; how to pick up a blitz, you know, that kind of thing?
And now Lock is put up for a trade (probably already traded). What does that leave on the line – Spenser and Unger?
To answer your question
Yes. Yes, they do.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
It was a suggestion
Not a statement.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not the players that concern me, it's the process
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
I’d be OK with these moves if the Seahawks were making an addition by subtraction, rather than subtraction by subtraction.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
though, one thing I would caution is any (implicit) assumption that the current process — such that it is — will continue to be the process.
It’s one thing to clear a roster that you (apparently) think is garbage. It’s another to see how you operate once you get more of “your” players.
I’m trying to not be Polly Anna while also concluding that these guys are morons before the first game.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
^^^ ... while also NOT concluding that these guys are morons... ^^^
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Yes, I think you're right.
It’s taken me a little while, but the more I think about it, we should not make any assumptions that the current process will continue to be the process. Problem is, that’s exactly what we are afraid of, and given the high number and frequency of these transactions, it only reinforces our fear.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I may be a worthless, 9 to 5 data-entry ape
but you better believe I am qualified to call out the decision making skills of the front office for my favorite sports team.
by boytruck on Sep 5, 2010 4:05 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
absolutely
a quick look around the league will tell anyone that nobody is dumping players at this level. Either Pete Carroll and John Schneider are changing the game and know something nobody else does or they are so devoted to the idea of getting their own guys that they will ride the “competition” mantra to there death.
by Hancock.Brett on Sep 5, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Good.
Oft injured, mostly ineffective and overpaid.
Good riddance.
If someone is going to suck at RT, might as well pick up some young, cheapo from the street.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Forgive me if someone already said it.
One good thing that may come from this is talent evaluation experience for P/QM. Carroll has been out of the league for a while and Schneider is a new GM. You can’t say they are not doing their due diligence. If anything they may be getting a better feel for the league.
Sure it is a reach but these are desperate times.
by nickfru1 on Sep 5, 2010 4:24 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
a reach is an understatement
I really hope it is good that they “learn on the job” but right now they are fucking it up and fast. They can learn on the job somewhere else but please stop making the Seahawks a strange place.
by Hancock.Brett on Sep 5, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Holy cow. Insert chill pill in mouth.
This was a crappy team. They’re blowing it up and rebuilding. Will we agree with every move? No.
I’d rather have this than the Ruskell-era mistake – continue to apply aging, moderately effective ‘bandaids’ in hopes of short term contention.
There are a lot of bright spots on this team (Okung, Tate, Thomas, Mebane, Thurmond, Washington, Forsett, BMW, etc), and it will continue to grow and get better. Have faith.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
I'll be the first to admit that I'm a hater
through and through. I have no long term faith and the moves I disagree with just keep piling up. It was a crappy team and after this entire off season I’m not sure it has gotten better. The draft was great but besides that…..to tired to get into it . I agree with your assessment of Ruskell but don’t at all believe that his players should be traded/cut en mass because the team was terrible overall.
by Hancock.Brett on Sep 5, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't mind.
This team has won 9 games in 2 seasons. 9 games!! That’s pathetic and embarasses the hell out of me. I was calling for the roster to be blown up and their doing just that. We still have important cogs. Hasselbeck, Forsett, Mebane, Lofa, Hill, Heater, Trufant, and Spencer are all here. Plus we drafted some hopefully future stars and talented players such as Okung, Thomas, Tate, Thurmond, and Kam. In addition to Leon Washington and Whitehurst, it is looking like a different team, but with some familiar faces still. Change was needed and that’s what’s going on.
by PhoneHomeET29 on Sep 5, 2010 7:08 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Change for change's sake is futility.
Getting rid of Matt, Forsett, Mebane, etc. would be change too.
The whole point is that this FO is making BAD changes.
What would be good changes?
Enlighten me. I’m not for all of the moves that have been done. I was a big fan of Wilson and also starting to like L.Jackson. This is a new regime who hopefully have a plan, so let them execute it. I just don’t understand what is being dictated as a bad or good move? Should we of kept the entire team or cut the entire team? Changes needed to be made.
by PhoneHomeET29 on Sep 5, 2010 7:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Good moves are good moves, bad moves are bad moves
What’s with people trying to push the entire policy into one box. PC/Schneider have done a lot of weird, head-scratching things. They’ve also made some solid to great additions.
There’s no “either change or stagnancy” dichotomy. As always there are good, necessary moves and bad, unnecessary moves. And like any FO ours has a bit of one and a bit of the other. How you judge that is up to the individual. Pretending it’s an absolute either way is folly, and that includes stating “change is needed” as if that OKs every move.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What I'm saying is
That change includes bad or good moves. Those bad or good moves were neccesary in order to change the roster. If you don’t change anything about the team they will more than likely play the same as previously. Change was needed and change is what everyone was calling for. The FO is doing exactly what we want. No one on here said keep Tapp or keep Wilson specifically, they just insisted something needed to be done. It sucks, but it will alter this team for good or bad. That remains to be seen.
by PhoneHomeET29 on Sep 5, 2010 8:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
We need an immediate return to mediocrity
rofl…
:-(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
I never wanted the roster blown up.
I wanted the Seahawks to build to the future with young, key pieces. They didn’t need to blow up the roster, and in any case, change for change’s sake is rarely ever a good idea.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I got ya.
We still have some young key pieces from the previous regime and we also have added some great talent trough the draft. Some of these moves have been bad and some have been good. When a new regime that has no previous connections to the players, you can bet that the roster will change dramatically.
by PhoneHomeET29 on Sep 5, 2010 8:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
That's not a binary choice, Ruskell-era or...this
Also it would be nice if our starting team actually shared time in training camp as the 1st-team offense.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Can anyone remember if the Atlanta Falcons made a lot of moves between Petrino and Smith?
I am pretty sure the Dolphins did the offseason they hired Sporano.
But think of all the fourth and fifth round draft picks those bright spots can net us!
7 picks for 7 quarterbacks in Draft 2011! EFF IT!
by Seatown_Sport_Head321 on Sep 5, 2010 5:30 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
also for the record this weekend turned to crap for me
went from PAX (video game expo) and relaxing to wife having to work today and tomorrow and being insanely busy.
by Hancock.Brett on Sep 5, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
All I am Saying Is This...
I hope Matt Hasselbeck knows his sleep number, because he will surely be going to bed tired.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
This is like that Simpsons episode
where Homer coaches peewee football.
You’re cut. Sorry, cut. Cut. Cut.
Vallos, I like your hustle. That’s why it was so hard to cut you.
by puerto on Sep 5, 2010 4:39 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This is like what happens when I get drunk and start messing with my fantasy rosters
Seahawks Fans Cannot Be Cured
by TheLaird on Sep 5, 2010 4:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Pete Carroll is like the guy in your league who has 86 roster moves
and picks his players back up once they clear waivers
by Jerikantilles on Sep 5, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay, so Sando is saying that some of the previously reported moves have not been announced
The team made no mention of previously reported moves involving Julius Jones, Jordan Babineaux, Kevin Vickerson or Junior Siavii.
That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but just in case you didn’t think the day could be any weirder there is this…
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Should have added
The team has yet to announce the Wrotto, Vallos, and Ellison cuts but not the reported Jones, Babs, and Vickerson cuts, according to Sando.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Indeed
The rest wasn’t on their own feed. But that doesn’t mean much now. It would get confusing if they turn out to be false tho
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Jesus Christ, are we planning to go 0-16?
I wan’t ’Jake Locker as much as the next guy but come on…
The guys that we need in order to win are still around
Hass, Okung,Carlson,Mebane,Tatupu,Tru,Thomas
I bet all of them are jettisoned to the Lions for draft picks
Makes the team younger and maybe we’ll get a team of Amobi Okoye’s.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
I'm afraid to go to sleep and click FieldGulls + ESPN after I wake up in the morning.
We may not even be the Seahawks anymore.
by twocolorcrayon on Sep 5, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't be gone when you're jettisoned!
That’s right, they’ll be cutting/disowning fans shortly.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
a few others as well on the same link
Vallos, Wrotto
ahh..now i see it....hard to keep up
with all the posts, comments and links.
Lots of shit happening , will be interesting when the dust settles and when that “big move” thats been rumored and promised takes place.
I think you need to prepare yourself for the likelihood that this is the group
other than some moves at the margins for the foreseeable future
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
We don't even have 53 people on our roster right now
We sure as hell ain’t done
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess
The Chargers and an unnamed team that had permission to speak with Jackson are in a standstill. Either the unnamed team and Vjac have reached an agreement or the Chargers and an unnamed team gve reached an agreement. Either way someone hasn’t agreed yet.
by PhoneHomeET29 on Sep 5, 2010 5:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Pretty sure the rumor was that V-Jax and the unnamed team had reached an agreement
But the Chargers think that they can scam us in to a bad trade. As we all know, there is no way we give up more to SD than we should, history tells us so.
I do wonder if that is holding it up at all.
Carroll and Schneider are worried about being fleeced twice so they are holding out until they feel they are stealing V-Jax away
We don't have a 53 man roster right now, we have 51 men on our roster by the moves we know
These are the moves we know though not all have been confirmed by the Hawks
Added: Junior Siavii, Michael Robinson, Evan Dietrich-Smith, Nate Ness, Stacy Andrews
Cut: Kevin Vickerson, Julius Jones, Jordan Babineaux, Owen Schmitt, Kevin Ellison, Steve Vallos, Mansfield Wrotto
This is our current roster if the moves listed are all correct:
QB Matt Hasselbeck, Charlie Whitehurst
WR Deion Branch, Mike Williams, Golden Tate, Deon Butler, Benjamin Obamanu
RB Justin Forsett, Leon Washington, Michael Robinson
FB Quinton Ganther
TE John Carlson, Chris Baker, Cameron Morrah, Anthony McCoy
C Chris Spencer, Evan Dietrich-Smith
G Max Unger, Ben Hamilton, Mike Gibson, Chester Pitts
OT Russell Okung, Sean Locklear, Tyler Polumbus, Stacy Andrews
DE Chris Clemons, Dexter Davis, Red Bryant, E.J. Wilson, Kentwan Balmer
DT Brandon Mebane, Craig Terrill, Colin Cole, Junior Siavii
LB David Hawthorne, Will Herring, Lofa Tatupu, Matt McCoy, Aaron Curry
CB Marcus Trufant, Kelly Jennings, Walter Thurmond, Roy Lewis, Kennard Cox
S Lawyer Milloy, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Nate Ness
P Jon Ryan
PK Olindo Mare
LS Clint Gresham
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh and QB Zac Robinson, CB Ross Weaver
I’ll probably put a new 53-man roster including practice squad and IRd players once the stuff calms down, I agree it’s needed.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
We picked him up a few hours back
Here. Former Dolphins CB. That story got kinda snowed under.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Seahawks confirmed only 3 cuts/adds
Namely Wrotte, Vallos and Ellison out for Andrews, Dietrich-Smith and Ness. I’m not sure why they wouldn’t confirm the other moves, I guess it’s possible the media outlets got them wrong.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd love to see a scematic
which details the moves from last season to now. Right or wrong, its an incredible amount of roster moves. And I can’t imagine that many players – free agents – will want to come to seattle if the roster is always churned.
I highly doubt this will become a typical thing this admin does
This is their first offseason with the team, had to figure there was going to be a lot of movement.
Vickerson, Ellison, Losman
and many others disagree with you
by m_b on Sep 5, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Right - that is in this offseason, the one with lots of movement.
I’m saying that once they have their foundation in, things will slow down in the years to come.
I think that the Seahawks transactions thus far are getting somewhere around 140.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
At least
The last count I was someone mentioned was 125 when the roster was cut down to 75. 22 more moves to cut it down to 53, plus a trade, plus these dozen adds/removes, and we’re well over 150.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Jarron Gilbert was cut. I wouldn't mind bringing him in as a rush end.
Also, Ryan Torrain was cut. I’d much rather have him than Robinson unless the team plans on having Robinson return kicks.
I still expect Jackson to be traded.
If not soon, but at some point within the next year.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
A.J. Smith is always so weird at this
VJackson’s value sinks day-by-day. Do you really want to miss out on possible trades now? I don’t know what they’re asking but they’re near “just take what you can” territory.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Precisely. It's approaching Randy-Moss-traded-for-candy territory
Not that I mean to compare Vincent Jackson to Randy Moss as players, but the situation is quickly devolving and deteriorating for San Diego, and they lose leverage to get maximum compensation in return day by day.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Galloway was traded to the Cowboys for two firsts after missing half the year, so you never know
A.J. Smith is a tough cookie.
Them was different days for player value
WRs have been traded for tuppence all year. You can’t just declare one player the exception to that trend. Not even AJ Smith
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Indeed.
Trade value is tough to predict. It may very well be a different situation at some point next year.
However, at this point, I don’t think Vincent Jackson’s value is increasing. Instead, I think it’s decreasing, and decreasing considerably.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
We'll see. I do remember reading that he was prepared to sit out the whole season.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 5, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems like such a ridiculously bad idea
But then again, his contract demands seem kinda dumb in the first place. He is getting some bad advice from the people around him.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions
At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised to read the team is moving to Oklahoma City
oh wait…
But wow, just wow. Tapp, Sims, Pistol, Vickerson, Wrotto, Gibbs, etc.? I know we have stunk it up the last few years, but this is a whole ’nother new level of drama. Not the least bit boring, but boy, it sure does make one wonder.
Bam.
Sorry to be the one that breaks this to you, but by the time you typed that the Seahawks were traded to L.A. for a compensatory half a d-league NBA team.
by Anticitizen_One on Sep 5, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Schefter sort of reconfirms Jones cut
No official cut yet on Seahawks RB Julius Jones, but am told it is “imminent.” Team decided today to release him, but not done yet.
either that FO is leakier than a seive or they just suck at how to release someone
If you intend to release someone then do it. They look indecisive and amateur. Maybe we can get some grown-ups in here someday.
Yeah sorta
It’s kinda odd how the Seahawks only confirm 3 of the switches. Junior Siavii, Michael Robinson versus Kevin Vickerson, Julius Jones, Jordan Babineaux, Owen Schmitt all remains unconfirmed. Make some sense since it doesn’t balance out so they might still be working on FAs or the like…Ugh, we’ll see.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Possible that there is so much paperwork and processing to do that they want to get each one done before announcing
But yeah, the impression that leaves is “disarray”. Seahawks have often been slow to confirm moves in years past as well.
Sounds reasonable
Oh wait, they were just cut to make room for more ferns.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Woah
I leave to work a 12 hour shift, and the entire roster is in chaos. Haha, what the hell is going on today? Sorry to see Babs go.
I'm powerless over Seahawks management...
…and our roster has become VERY unmanageable.
Red Bryant: surprise us!
So, interesting drops by other teams.
Two running backs: Joique Bell, who would probably have made the Bills if it wasn’t stacked at RB. Also, Ryan Torain just hit the practice squad. Yeah, a little but of rosterbation, sorry.
I'm all for Bell.
I thought Andre Anderson would miss the cut and Bell would stick in Buffalo…
Red Bryant: surprise us!
It's not rosterbation if the guy is freely available.
Rosterbation is the creation of far-fetched trades when there’s no hint that it’s possible or likely. I’d like to have Torain as well.
Thanks.
I figured rosterbation was just talking about guys you’d like on your team. Good to know I can dabble with actually rosterbating.
It's all good
ChrisHenryChrisHenryChrisHenryChrisHenry
See?
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Bell made it to the Bills practice squad
The kid looked good in pre-season action
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I haven't seen any of L. Blount
but he was released by the Titans. How useful would he be to the team?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
:-(
I guess Carroll woulda gone for him already if he was a fit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
He could beat some sense into the FO!
by PhoneHomeET29 on Sep 5, 2010 7:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Even L. Blount
can’t beat a man that much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
Well, he can sucker-punch them...
when they aren’t expecting it.
I wouldn't mind if we picked up RB Lonyae Miller from Dallas' practice squad.
Red Bryant: surprise us!
Clayton reports we are shopping Locklear
…and the beat goes on.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5536408
I mean not like
I think he’s a necessity on the team, or an asset, but he’s better than a big gaping roster hole or a T who doesn’t clear waivers…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
Is he going to cite some kind of evidence that adding Andrews means losing Locklear?
I don’t get it. He DOES realize that Okung is out, and we just ditched Wrotto, right?
The only fucking reason they have a LEGIT reason to do this is that Okung is at 100% and even that is not that good of a reason
I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus
Michael Robinson
Tweets
Glory2God! Today has been great. Now a Seahawk. Thanks to everyone supporting me. Now time for football and on to the next chapter
Team still hasn’t confirmed the signing obv
I wouldn't pick out drapes just yet, Mike.
by abender20 on Sep 5, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So i am a relative neophyte as a football fan, so please forgive me if this sounds silly. Would it be correct to surmise based on today that Carroll and Co really did not like what they saw and figured if we’re going to suck, we might as well suck with younger, cheaper talent with more potential upside than the players they released?
My hopes exceed my expectations
-WeepingTile
Kind of, but theres been very little consistency with these moves.
They’ve gotten rid of some young players with upside, they’ve gotten rid of some of their own guys, they’ve cut some older players and they’ve signed some older players. They seem to have the blow it up part down but don’t seem exactly sure what they want to build over the crater.
A neophyte?
You picked the right thesaurus.
You picked the right sport.
But you picked the wrong team.
Go enjoy some other team, this team is a mess!
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Sep 6, 2010 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions
dude
don’t be a dick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
I'm not... not at all!
I’m saying if a poor soul is new to watching football, SAVE YOURSELF!!!! Pick another team to not subject yourself to the pain and anguish of being a Seahawk fan.
However, if you are to join us, I say to you this:
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.
Bird Law in this country isn't governed by reason.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Sep 6, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My ancestors tilted that battle!
Sorry, but it’s not like the Welsh have much claim to fame. To you, midget bowmen.
inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
I understand
I feel as though the Squawk’s fanbase is to the Detroit Lions roster: We need all the talent we can get.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 6, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we have Howard Green, Charlie Frye, Marquis Weeks
Kelly Herndon, Kevin Bentley, and Tom Rouen on our roster. No more, no less.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
Yes
Right here. But why don’t I just repost it?
QB Matt Hasselbeck, Charlie Whitehurst
WR Deion Branch, Mike Williams, Golden Tate, Deon Butler, Benjamin Obamanu
RB Justin Forsett, Leon Washington, Michael Robinson
FB Quinton Ganther
TE John Carlson, Chris Baker, Cameron Morrah, Anthony McCoy
C Chris Spencer, Evan Dietrich-Smith
G Max Unger, Ben Hamilton, Mike Gibson, Chester Pitts
OT Russell Okung, Sean Locklear, Tyler Polumbus, Stacy Andrews
DE Chris Clemons, Dexter Davis, Red Bryant, E.J. Wilson, Kentwan Balmer
DT Brandon Mebane, Craig Terrill, Colin Cole, Junior Siavii
LB David Hawthorne, Will Herring, Lofa Tatupu, Matt McCoy, Aaron Curry
CB Marcus Trufant, Kelly Jennings, Walter Thurmond, Roy Lewis, Kennard Cox
S Lawyer Milloy, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Nate Ness
P Jon Ryan
PK Olindo Mare
LS Clint Gresham
And some PS and IR. This is all assuming all roster moves brought forth by reporters are correct, but not a lot has been confirmed by the Hawks yet (awaiting physicals, contracts).
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Go ahead, but he is worthless on offense.
He is good on ST and was the captain, but take that for what you want….I think the 49ers have alot of talented guys that can do his job just as good or better.
by ericalancanty on Sep 5, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay so I stepped out for two hours.
Who got cut/traded/stabbedanddumpedintotheSnohomishriver?
No one
Seahawks annoyed reporters by leaving it at this announcement. Have to wait to tomorrow at least, with physicals and contracts, to know our 53-man roster (we’re still 2 shorts) and practice squad.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 5, 2010 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Pete Carroll had one of the largest rosters in college.
Players moved up and down this roster all the time. The NFL does not allow you to have this many players. Carroll is making up for that by bringing in players and checking them out. If they are not what he wants he moves them down the road and brings in more. It is silly to think that with 700 or so players that Carroll had no access to before becomes available that he will not keep this proccess going. Even into the regular season.
I believe that the top 2/3’s of are roster is 90% established. There will be a few more jettisoned but most of the movement will be in the bottom 10 roster spots.
The future is looking better
So you mean 60% of our roster is set? Or rather 6/10th
It’s silly to assume Carroll would use college tactics on an NFL roster. Who knows though, maybe it’ll work. And i think you may be right that that’s what he’s doing.
They're treating the roster cutdowns like a second draft
Risky strategy as far as public perception goes. With all these cut and traded players there are going to be guys who play well for other teams (Housh, Wilson) and everyone will snicker at Carroll and the Seahawks. They’ve really put the spotlight on themselves. Riverboat gambler! Roster churn by a college coach! Crazy times. I don’t like the Wilson or Vickerson moves on their face but am interested to see what happens.
So... Once we sign 2 more guys, trade Locklear (probably for a pick so need to add one more) Take a day to set the starting lineups, then....
Bring on SF!!!! Michael Robinson = 3 return TD’s.
I wondering what rabbit Pete's gonna pull out tomorrow...
I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus
Just had a thought on the Alex Gibbs resignation.
They’re saying it was “health related.” And though technically it may have been, it may be more accurate to say Gibb’s health issues were related to the stress Carroll and Scheider caused him with first removing Ben Hamilton and now Locklear (unofficially).
Plus Wrotto’s gone and they bring in Christopher Polumbus and Cabeza de Vaca, and none of them fit Gibb’s protype. Throw in the Okung injury and that’s 3/5 of the line gone. No continuity whatsoever and so much for the backbone of Gibb’s ZBS. No wonder the guy suddenly had health issues. Being underminded at 69.
by broadbill birdwatcher on Sep 5, 2010 9:27 PM PDT reply actions
I really liked Ellison!
It's a Casio on a plastic beach
by Roy Weaver Stuckey on Sep 5, 2010 9:31 PM PDT reply actions
And Wilson. And Vickerson. And Gibbs. And Tapp.
Somebody love Colin Cole for a chance.
I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus
Now you're thinking!
I love Branch!
It's a Casio on a plastic beach
by Roy Weaver Stuckey on Sep 5, 2010 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Ladies and Gentleman...Your newest Seahawk - Evan Dietrich-Smith
The picture they are using of him on the front page of Seahawks.com is priceless
Certainly fits the dirtbag description. Although he looks like more of a dirtbag off the field than on.
I can honestly say the only thing we have over the Rams right now
Is an defense that is just barely above theirs.
That seems a little extreme
Maybe the Rams should have done this kind of roster purge a few years ago. We don’t know that the Hawks will be worse for making the moves they did today.
Its gonna be fun at kickoff next Sunday...
knowing that my friends will be wondering what happened to half the team since the last preseason game. Oh about that, Carrol and Schnied dumped half the players. When? last weekend. All of them? Yup all of them. Go unknown Hawks!
Jones?
Housh? Locklear?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 5, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
All of them are starters
But only one of them SHOULD start.
So yes, Big E-Z’s statement was correct.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
I think
the Seahawks organization feels the same way we feel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZDUh9yboqI
Your culture is primitive; yet so funky!
by jubelthebear on Sep 6, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
A New RB tomorrow?
Hawks put in a waiver claim for former Packers RB- Lumpkin- but were beat out by Tampa. He is more of a bigger back. I think tomorrow we will add another RB since we only have four right now.
So who would our new starting RT be if we cut Locklear?
The over/under for combined false starts/sacks by our o-line in week 1 is in the double digits now.
LT, Polumbus --->Okung once healthy
RT, Andrews?
To be honest, that’s what I see. Willis isn’t in the picture. Wrotto and Vallos were the most “ultility” of the players left that have been here. Theoretically Unger could slide out to tackle, leaving Gibson to start at RG?
Not a lot of possibilities that keep one-week Seahawks from starting at both tackles this week.
Unger at tackle is a interesting idea
He’s undersized, so putting him on the outside might give him a better chance at the more agile and quick DE’s rather than the bulky DT’s, though it might be given he will suck ALOT against pass rush.
If I had to choose, it will probably go like this:
Hamilton-Gibson-Spencer-Unger-Polumbus
I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus
All this talk about WTF is going on, and WTF exaclty is the process
the FO is taking here I can somewhat understand given all the changes since the new regime has taken over. But I guess my question is what is it that people want? Some sort of mission statement or press conference stating that this is the process we are taking and this is the overall vision we have and how we are going to get there?
I think we would all like to be a fly on the wall in those discussion and meeting between Pete and John. However, I really dont see them addressing the media and informing us and everyone else in on what they are planning on doing, who they are wanting to bring in and so forth. In a sport where coaches cover their mouths when calling in plays and coaches have “dummy” signal callers- informing every other NFL FO and organization of what our plans doesnt sound like a sound plan in itself.
I would imagine that like every other team, they are planning on getting better and building a roster in a way THEY see the best way. And in that process, some of the players we loved to watch and root for will be lost and we wont understand nor agree. But this is why we are fans and they are paid millions to make these decisions. Some will work and some will not. And in the end, if the people in charge make more mistakes than good they bring, they too will be gone. Until then, I dont see the benefit of us as fans stressing about what they are doing, or questioning every move they make- it surely wont change what it is they are doing.
But just my opinion- and one I am sure most of us will not like and will rip apart. It is what it is.
Second-guessing the moves of your favorite team is a national pastime
Considering the whirlwind revolving door in Renton, it’s to be expected. The intense coverage, NFL Network, HDTV, fansites, blogs, fantasy football and everything else makes fans feel like they have a special knowledge and insight. And that’s great for the league. Joe Public feels like he has a stake even if he never goes to a game.
by lemonverbena on Sep 5, 2010 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand that-
I was just looking for confirmation that while we want an answer we are not really expecting one. We are bitching to bitch, but more than anything I think fans are just wanting to be heard- by anyone, even just each other.
We want something that shows us a clear direction that the franchise is going.
It’s a muddled mess right now that no one can navigate through to get an accurate feel. Even some of the players have hinted their own confusion.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 6, 2010 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Blow it up
Thats the process. We are definitely cheaper than we were at the start of camp. When we go into next offseason we will have more cap room, assuming there is a cap and not a lock out, than any other team in the NFL. If you aren’t a starter on this team, you are completely expendable. If you are a starter, you have a big contract and are past your prime, you are marked for extinction. I would say they are bringing guys who are younger, meet their mold at the position, or who are hungry, cheap and can fill the spot for a year.
It seems a muddled mess right now
Because it’s been one day of cuts. Let this stuff breathe a bit and I would think a few things will come into perspective. Also I have to believe that this isn’t the first time in the NFL that players have been confused/upset about roster moves, the only difference is now there is twitter or Facebook or whatever else to make it public
by CurryInAHurry59 on Sep 6, 2010 11:08 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Common sense
It’s a beautiful thing
by CurryInAHurry59 on Sep 6, 2010 11:03 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What the flippity flying fuck is going on?
This plan we have going is brilliant, in fact if I understand it correctly it’s a swiss fucking watch.
"Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback."
Darkness warshed over the Hawks. Darker than a black steer's tuckus on a moonless prairie at night.
There was no bottom.
How the heck are we going to beat San Fran with
a starting O-line with two BRAND NEW members we got off the waiver wire. And no nose tackle that can get any push into the backfield. Ugh…
Though they sink through the Sea, they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion...
Oakland.
"Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback."
by the other side on Sep 6, 2010 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Mostly Detroit.
You’d think Ruskell would tap into the outgoing flow and be bringing in a couple to Chicago though.
Ravens sign Housh.
Per Schefter’s Twitter.
And the fleecing continues.
I think Housh in Baltimore looks good on paper.
But they have 3 old slot receivers now. So I’m not sure how well it will work in reality.
1 yr 850,000 is the report
So we’re still on the hook for a good chunk of change. For a guy who’s playing for the Ravens. Awesome.
Sando reporting that
Sean Locklear now on trading block.
Everyone is going to bitch about that but 2 weeks ago most people wanted him gone.
Lack of cohesivness is bad for an o-line but so is a turnstyle for a RT
I think they were going to make some major cuts to the OL and Gibbs saw all of his hard work go for naught.
And once Gibbs left the building – they figured “fuck it – it looked bad, really bad. Blow it up.”
The exaustion thing still jives.
Hell, I’m exhausted by yesterday from here.
And can't really blame either side.
Gibbs has the right to be frustrated, PC and John don’t like the talent he is working with. Something had to give.
And that is understandable.
But we can’t stand still with guys that we thnk are hurting the long term plan for the team because Gibbs doesn’t have the energy for it. It sucks because he is such a legend but I certainly see both sides.
Pressed enter too quick
I don’t think he looked that bad this preseason. He wasn’t stellar, but he also wasn’t getting all the extra protection Wrotto was so he was mostly on his own. I’m not sure how these newly signed guys are a sure thing to out perform him.
They aren't - but they also aren't getting paid 5 million dollars.
At some point you have to stop throwing good money after bad.
Ok lets explore this
So you don’t want to pay 5 million for someone that you think is too expensive. So A) we look for a comparable or better talent who could replace him and allow us to cut his salary OR B) we accept the loss of talent and go sub par to save money. Looks like we agree we aren’t doing A) so what about B)? We just spent $7M to dump Housh for no return so I don’t think $ is the issue. You can cut or trade next year if you want because Locks trade value is lowest its ever been right now after a crappy last season. That would solve your problem if the cap comes back next year. You’re considering paying F-me money to VJ if you can work out picks with SD. So I don’t think its about saving money.
Salary for your rapidly declining RT has more impact that just camp in his case.
It impacts salary negotiations for incoming FA, future draft picks, new contracts with existing players, and in the case of Housh — it can effect the locker room in a very negative way.
Dumping Housh is costing Seattle 6.2Million this season + the cost of a replacement player (Baltimore is picking up 855k of his salary.
That was a sunk cost and is somewhat typical salary for a #1 WR. It doesn’t harm future negotiations – in fact it helps them because it says “We aren’t going to pay #1 salary to a #3 wideout like the previous numbskull GM in Seattle.”
They are doing two things right now. They’re going to field a team and see what they have – and they’re preparing for the draft/Free Agency next year.
This could all blow up in their face (Free Agents not coming to Seattle) but it can also work.
It all hinges on Pete Carroll’s Charisma (Free Agency) and our team’s ability to show some progress overall.
If you're going to release housh or Lock for a new FA next year
why not do it next year. I don’t see how this years salary structure dictates next years negotiations, unless the structure is maintained. In addition to that, I don’t think any salary negotiation is based on a single teams capabilities but rather a league-wide assessment. If you want a #1 salary you look to other top teams #1 salaries.
I’m also pretty sure PC has screwed his (players coach) advantage with attracting talent. That locker room has to have pretty crappy morale right now. They are all professionals but it still sucks when you unexpectedly lose friends and teammates and when you are unsure of the future. Contrary to PC’s thinking, constant uncertainty does not breed performance it breeds resentment and fear and underperformance.
Not just that - but OL contract negotiations usually involve a lot of..
Left tackle refuses to be paid less than RT, LG is well aware of RG is making and refuses to be paid less.
So when you’re looking at at RT being paid “LT of the Future” money – it makes all other OL salary discussions really really difficult.
Just cruise through previous OL salary negotiations/holdouts around the league to find examples of this. (Here’s a hint — this happened in Seattle a few times in the not too distant past.)
Seattle dealt with it with Walter and Hutch a bit.
Also I think New England had a tough time with their OL very recently renegotiating.
Also the Jets, and the Steelers had a lot of flap over the last 4 years with difficult guard renegotiations.
The Hutchinson debacle had a serious market impact on LG negotiations around the league.
Oh I get the OL negotiating. Just think its league driven rather than team driven
You know where to find the contract information though? That’s what I was really asking there
I found an old Seattle P.I. post
Locklear agreed later in the day to a five-year contract that is believed to be worth $32 million, with $12 million in bonuses.
If the signing bonus is $12 million, it pro-rates to $2.4 million/year. That means cutting him after this season would trigger a cap hit of $4.8 million.
Yeah, so why try and trade now? You're probably going to end up releasing him anyways
Until you have confirmed, better talent why throw the baby out with the bathwater if you going to gain minimal upside?
Why not give a trade a shot if you're going to cut him?
Better to get something – even if it’s a late-late round pick than nothing.
if you're just going to concede this season I guess so
Trading for late round picks just seems foolish to me after awhile. They have so little value compared to a starting player. You trade out of positions of depth for pics to strengthen positions of weakness, not trade out of positions of weakness hoping you get something better some time down the road.
They haven't all been bad players and even if Locklear is bad his backup is likely to be worse.
Stacy Andrews?
Exactly. Unproven does not = better than bad
Not that Andrews is even unproven.
We don't know that Andrews will be worse.
Why are we so in love with all of these guys that were a part of the downward spiral of this team? With the exception of Wilson none of our cuts have been guys that are so good they can’t be replaced.
Not in love with anyone. Its not about the individual player
Its about what they are structuring to replace them. I don’t care if we keep or get rid of lock. I’d love to replace him, but replace him with someone who gives me confidence they can perform. We are giving away degrees of talent for free and betting on what is arguably lesser talent that doesn’t even know our scheme, 6 days before Game 1.
I have so little faith in Lock
I gave him a chance but honestly – he lost me when he wrapped his hands around the neck of his girlfriend and began to strangle her when we were a playoff bound team.
Goodbye!
thats always been tough for me. I'd love to get rid of Hill, Lock, and any others who seem to have problems not strangling or beating their significant others, getting DUIs, etc.
I’m getting that’s just not realistic in the league these days
It's certainly not possible to completely avoid -
And I’m also keen on second chances.
But he strangled his girlfriend in public when we were superbowl bound.
For a month can you not commit a felony?
But it is part of the process of building a better team.
We forget that PC and JS were given a bad team.
He's an also-ran that his previous team thought was only worth a 7th rounder
getting rid of Wilson for Thurmond is unproven
Locklear is someone we are probably hoping to get a 7th rounder for
I just don’t think the dropoff is very severe at all
I hope you're right in every way possible
I hope I eat crow, I just hope I understand why when that happens
It might work out, which I think will be pure luck
It could backfire and we could have the ugliest OL on record
Seahawks = Fugliest Team ever
Better trade Whitehurst, he’s to beautiful for this team
I think you're confusing two topics.
Locklear is bad and I have no problem with the Hawks getting rid of him and his contract.
However bad Locklear might be, he’s still probably better than his backups. So getting rid of him likely makes this team worse this season. It certainly makes them thinner at the position.
I don't think they are getting rid of Lock on a whim
They must think that what they have is adequate to fill Locks shoes
That's where everyone is disagreeing right now
Do we think the FO knows what they are doing and making the right assessment on all this? The Reg season will tell for sure, but I’m sceeered.
Thats the rub
We won’t know for awhile, not even just the first few games. I like to think this is part of a good plan that is in place
The more I look into it I really like the signing of Michael Robinson
Seems like he could be a good change of pace back and seems to be a well respected team leader. Add to that the fact that he is a special teams stud and I think it will be a move we are stoked about down the road.
I'm still stoked that fail or succeed. We should see a lot of young guys get a chance to go out and play
Something that has really frustrated me over the last two years.
Seasons essentially tanked – why is Julius Jones still out there? Why can’t we get Deon Butler out there more? Etc, Etc.
I hope to see a lot of Whitehurst, Golden Tate, Deon Butler, Justin Forsett, and I want to see a young line go out with something to prove.
It’s a fine line between being Green Bay/Houston and being Cleveland/Tampa Bay… But at some point you have to take a chance.
From Adam Caplan's twitter
Seahawks expected to sign RB Chris Henry to practice squad
that would be cool
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
Here's hoping this is the offseason that Craig Terrill is finally released.
by Wayward Llama on Sep 6, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
So what is his story
and why are people excited by him? I know he was a bit of a workout warrior but didn’t stick in TEN or HOU.
I slept on it and I think some of these moves MIGHT make sense...but lot of this is a stretch
On Offense: I think PC decided the ZBS wasn’t working with the talent they have. He saw his interior line looking amateur and under performing in the preseason and decided to move back towards a power blocking scheme. Gibbs decided he couldn’t really provide much here so he said later I rather lounge on the barca. He got rid of line talent earlier in the season based upon the ZBS (Sims), but that was water under the bridge, so he looked forward and decided to scrounge what line talent he could for this year. Lock looks like he’s lost a lot of his speed and pop so he thinks he’s better off with a brawler rather than a more finesse player. I also think PC thinks WR talent is overvalued and as such believes the talent left can fit the bill, and depth can be obtained in a jam due to injuries.
On Defense: PC and JS saw a lot of ok talent on Defense but nothing elite. I liked Wilson, Tapp, and Vickerson, but they weren’t elite. Wilson may yet prove us wrong though. He figures the difference between mediocre and ok talent (Jennings and Wilson) is small and maybe can be coached up, so why not clear things out, evaluate this season and wait until they can upgrade next. He can assert his scheme more and maybe with the right complements Clemons could be better (next season).
I think this is a bunch of BS, but its my attempt to turn chaos into order in my head
I like to think that is what is going on.
Plus – if you have a plan, why waste time? Get it going quickly and build on it from here on.
Both Andrews and Polumbus are pretty ZBS unfriendly.
They’re both tall and Andrews is just a behemoth in general.
Hybrid ZBS work well if you've got big linemen
the 49ers used that a bit towards the end of last year and were very successful with it
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I agree, but we have to remember these decisions may have been made separately
Instead of fighting a losing battle to implement a poor scheme he’s saying, lets make the best of things. Hindsight is 20/20 and the Sims move seemed like a good idea with consultation with their resident “expert” Gibbs.
I still think the Sims cut was shortsighted and assumed way too much from the Hamilton acquisition, but the decision was made and maybe it helps to understand whats going on by breaking the timeframes down rather than seeing it all as a single strategy.
I don't think you should be discouraged so quickly into ditching the ZBS.
From everything I’ve read on it, the downside to the scheme is that you can’t really run it in practice for fear of injuring your own players, so preseason is the players first chance to get hands on training. This means that you’re generally going to struggle at first when you switch to the scheme, but you should see a big improvement after about 6 games (I believe this number came from Sando, but I can’t remember for sure).
by Mind of no mind on Sep 6, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
What Nate Dogg said,
I should have been more clear on that.
by Mind of no mind on Sep 6, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm. Maybe that's their last roster move?
I mean, you can’t just cut Matt, but…
by Bisquick McBob on Sep 6, 2010 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Are we sure all these roster changes have happened?
The official site has updated 6 transactions on it’s roster but not all of the ones talked about here and with the comment.
“The always-busy Seahawks have been hard at work again today, making six more roster moves – and they are not the ones that have been reported by other media outlets.”
It only lists Vallos, Wrotto and Ellison as goners.
I'm fine with dumping Locklear
But blowing up the offensive line at the last minute seems pretty foolish.
I think Seattle should use plenty of shotgun and screen passes this weekend.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
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