An examination of fielding a worse Seahawks team than the one that was fielded last year.
In another thread - this one, to be exact - I had stated that I believed the Seahawks to be worse as a team than they were a year ago. I was asked by another Field Gullian who was interested in my honest response that in terms of position, talent, personnel, scheme, coaching – how the team was worse off (than they were a year ago)?
I think I satisfied addressing three of the criteria in my response. That is, positon, personnel, and talent. The rest, scheme and coaching, I either hardly touched upon or didn't address at all.
My response was quite lengthy, so forgive me. (I cleaned up some errors, and edited a small number of sentences to make them more concise and readable).
I’m going to first examine how things stand by first taking a look at some of the players that the Seahawks have departed with:
- Deon Grant. Solid free safety type of player who was playing out of position the majority of the years due to the personnel (Brian Russell and Jordan Babineaux). Currently, the Seahawks have replaced him with Earl Thomas. The consensus is that Earl Thomas is more talented than Deon Grant. I agree with this. However, Earl Thomas is a rookie. He has shown this preseason that he is a dynamic player but that he also still has a way to go and will experience the usual learning curve that most rookies experience. Lawyer Milloy, despite having the better frame for SS duties, sat the bench last year. Deon Grant, while not having Milloy’s frame, would likely have been a better pairing with Thomas than with Milloy, due to his range, even if he was out of his normal position. Of course, that’s hypothetical and subjective, but it still holds that Grant was more valuable to the Seahawks than Milloy was last year. However, let’s say that the Seahawks decided to go with Milloy over Grant this year, keeping Grant means that they have one more starting-caliber player on the roster. This is valuable. Very, very valuable.
The Seahawks are now starting an aged back up and a rookie. This is not often a recipe for success, despite the talent level of the aforementioned rookie, simply due to the growing pains typically associated with the player’s rookie year. Their depth is now gone. Kevin Ellison, Jamar Adams, and Babineaux are gone. Behind the starters are now Kam Chancellor and … fuck, I don’t know who else is behind them now.
- Josh Wilson. Getting rid of him made the team worse. Remember Thomas’ interception this preseason? Wilson was responsible for that. Remember Wilson’s interception? Wilson, again. Here is a nickelback with an aptitude for the big play.
The secondary looked improved, and Wilson was part of the improved play this preseason, despite any pass rush. Trufant’s health and strong play and the addition of Thomas’ talent coupled with Wilson’s heady play and Milloy’s run support has added up to what has looked like an improved secondary. Getting rid of Wilson in favor of Jennings and Thurmond took out a component that was integral to the secondary’s improvement. That’s a subtraction, and one that could make this year’s unit on par with last year’s, negating what seems to be an improved unit from last year.
Say Trufant gets hurt again. Who else can the Seahawks rely on? Earl Thomas, perhaps? Ok, but then who plays safety in his place? Then, do you really feel comfortable with Jennings and Thurmond still manning the other two spots in nickel packages? But if Thomas is kept at safety, then it’s back down to Jennings and Thurmond as being the other CB's, a very uncomfortable proposition. See, if Trufant were to get hurt again, the Seahawks don’t have the luxury of having Ken Lucas or Josh Wilson to pick up the slack, which he did admirably last year.
- T.J. Houshmandzadeh. I’ve raised a stink about the Seahawks cutting him without getting anything in return, and that if they couldn’t find any trade suitors, to keep him. I will not revisit that. However, cutting him does not make the Seahawks better this year. It makes this team worse. In Houshmandzadeh, the Seahawks had a player who was a dynamic route runner who could catch the ball in traffic as well as anyone in the NFL. One might go with the idea that the Seahawks are replacing him with Mike Williams, a talented player who has flamed out. Mike Williams, to his credit, has shown that he also a reliable receiver whose route-running is superb, and one could call that an even trade off. However, therein lies a problem: Williams has flamed out. He is still an unproven commodity. He has proven that he has talent, but he has not proven that he can produce, and produce consistently. Houshmandzadeh has. Moreover, Houshmandzadeh has proven to be a reliable 3rd down option. Who else can we say that about on the current WR corps?
The WR corps is better with Houshmandzadeh in it, not without him. The Seahawks could still have Williams, Tate, Butler, Branch, and Obomanu with Houshmandzadeh in the picture. Now, the Seahawks are relying on unproven regular season commodities, with the exception of perhaps Branch, who was healthy for the majority of last year. This is a gamble. One that is being done without the clear demonstration that any of these WR’s will improve the WR corps for the upcoming season. Burleson and Houshmandzadeh were at least known. commodities.
- Mansfield Wrotto. Insignificant of its own accord, but a transaction that negatively impacts the level of play and playcalling for the Seahawks, and that makes the team worse, not better. As we’ve seen in the game against the Vikings, the Seahawks have had to put John Carlson and other tight ends to protect Wrotto (and Matt Hasselbeck, to an extent) while facing off against the likes of Jared Allen. Jeremy Bates is an OC who likes to include the tight end in the passing game considerably, and this impacts the passing game and his play-calling options signifcantly.
Wrotto is no special talent, but he was at least capable of playing a few solid games against mid-level pass rush teams. He was a valuable back up.
I know that the Seahawks have acquired Ruskell Okung in the draft, and he’s a considerable talent upgrade than whoever was at LT last year, but 1, he’s a rookie, and 2, he’s not invulnerable. He can still get hurt again this year. Let’s say he does, who is who is going to back him up now? Stacy Andrews? Tyler Polumbus? Locklear? Not with his performance thus far. There’s a reason they put Wrotto at LT when Okung got hurt in the preseason and kept Locklear on the right side.
What’s more is that Locklear is not expected to be on the roster on opening day.
Neither Polumbus or Andrews have had the advantage of spending all offseason getting acclimated with Gibbs system. Wrotto had.
- Rob Sims. I’ve been waiting to get to this. Rob Sims last year, under Mike Solari and Solari's ZBS system had shown the most significant improvement of all of the O-linemen last year. He allowed Spencer to help out Unger. Had he not been able to hold his own, the interior O-line would have been a disaster. To this day, getting rid of him still makes no sense to me. There was no clear evidence that he did not fit the ZBS. He was a young, capable, if not promising guard whose size fit the Gibbs mold and was athletic. Sims proved capable of anchoring the LG spot at a respectable level.
The Seahawks replaced him with Ben Hamilton, who is 33 and was only brought in to help Okung with the adjustment of playing in the NFL. There is no clear evidence to suggest that he is better than or that he's an upgrade over Sims. Moreover, Hamilton may not be on the roster come next Sunday.
They’ve also added Chester Pitts, who is recovering from a microfracture surgery.
Locklear’s play this preseason indicates a decline in performance. The running game still continues to struggle.
Overall, even though the Seahawks have added a premiere talent at the most important position on the line, the O-line is worse.
------------------------------------------------------
This team isn’t getting better. They aren’t making additions by subtractions. No, they are getting worse. Worse and worse by subtraction.
Some people have said that these moves have been to make the team younger, but that’s not true. In fact, many of the young players that the Seahawks have gotten rid of this year have been replaced with a player who is older than them.
There are more of these examples I could think of, but given the length that I have already written, I won't. All in all, I am inclined to believe that this year’s Seahawks is worse than last year’s Seahawks, and that’s saying something because last year’s team played more like a two-win team, at least according to their DVOA.
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Sorry for the length of this, but here goes
I agree with a lot of what you say, in that the trade of Wilson and the recent release of Vickerson confused and infuriated me in equal measure. However, a few points;
1. I don’t see Grant as a significant upgrade over Milloy. I think Milloy is a better fit for what PC wants in a SS, an in-the-box type that is strong in run support. I also think Kam Chancellor is very intriguing, and will step in next year to give us a great mixture and diversity of talents at safety. As far as this year is concerned, Thomas + Milloy > Babs + Grant.
2. I don’t know why, but I don’t hate Housh getting cut. I can’t disagree with any of your points, he’s an excellent and proven route runner and I think character concerns aimed at him are wildly exagerated. However, I also have a great deal of faith in Butler, BMW and Tate. I followed the thread you linked to last night, and correct me if I’m wrong but remember you having arguing that our young wideouts would still be getting reps with TJ in the fold? While also true, Housh isn’t the kind of guy to stay quiet if the ball’s going to Carlson or BMW in the end-zone, or Butler on 3rd down. I think Q/PM thought they’d be using him sparingly, and didn’t want the negative attitude that would have resulted from TJ seeing less balls his way. The trade market for him was zero.
3. Wrotto: Wrotto was adequate at LT for one game, due to the whole offensive gameplan being tailored to reflect the fact that he’s inadequate. I don’t see how Andrews or Polombus are inferior to Mansfield. I know the next sentence is riddles with ’if’s’ but such is life on the Seahawks O-Line. IF Pitts recovers, Andrews regains some form and Polombus grasps the system, we are a far better line than we would have been with the likes of Sims, Wrotto and the please-lord-soon-to-be-released Locklear. More significantly, if none of those things happened, we’re not significantly worse, it’s hard to sink much lower than we did last year. You say that Okung can get hurt again, which is the same for every player in the NFL. High ankle sprain isn’t the end of the world, and he should be fully ready to go by week 2 or 3.
Like I said, I hate the Wilson and Vickerson moves. But if you offer me last years roster or this years, I’d take this years every time. And I have no doubt that Q/PM are still working dilligently to add more talent.
I reject the overall premise
I don’t think the FO cares weather or not the team is better this year than last.
Really, I’m sure they care, but it is somewhere down on the priority list. They are concerned with what the team looks like in two years. Its a complete guess as to two years as opposed to three, but its a feel.
I'd agree with all of this except Wrotto, he's more or less replacement level.
You wrote all of that without a mention of the pass rush, which will likely be worse as well.
Worse?
How will it be worse? Did we even have a pass rush last year? The new scheme with personal should at least match last years sack total and QB pressures. It can’t get much worse than last year.
Clemons isn't very good and will probably be easily schemed against. One of the starting defensive ends is Red Bryant.
I actually like them better than the combination of what we had last year
by twocolorcrayon on Sep 6, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Thats essentially taking Clemons over Tapp/Redding/LoJack combined.
Bryant is a pass rushing black hole.
I understand that. Tapp hurt to lose, but LoJack and Redding were about as
uninspiring players as you can get on the D-Line for me. Bryant may be a pass rushing black hole, but he’ll be a black hole for the opposing teams run game too in my opinion. Heh
by twocolorcrayon on Sep 6, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I personally don't think there's any way this team is worse than last year.
Wilson was a play maker, but was a play giver too. Regardless of what you say, Jennings is better at man coverage despite his lack of ball skills. T3, although young, seems like he has Trufant potential. Wilson didn’t have that. Mike Williams made Housh expendable. Our OLine & DLine is better. I’d also take the safety situation we have this year over last years by a long shot. With Tatupu healthy and the new pieces around him the defense should be vastly improved from last year. I’m still taking a wait and see approach, but to try and think we’ll be worse off than that 5 min Mora team? Hell no, how many games did they lose by double digits and just gave up together? I’d take the 4 win Holmy team and the 2 win team back in 92 over last years team.
I'm not sure how Mike Williams makes Housh expendable.
That’s like saying adding Randy Moss makes Wes Welker expendable, or Okung makes Locklear expendable. Two different types of WRs and you can always still play the other guy since there are 2,3, or even 4 WRs on the field at the same time.
Though I suppose the Housh thing is explainable by the whole “we’re going to suck this year so we might as well give Butler and Tate as much playing time as possible instead of trotting out old man Housh”.
I honestly believe if BMFMW doesn't have the offseason, training camp, and preseason
he did TJ Housh would still be on this team.
by twocolorcrayon on Sep 6, 2010 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
There is a flipside to this though.
You made some of these points in your post but they could be pulled out and talked about at length as well.
LT – Upgraded
RB – Upgraded
TE – Upgraded
Offensive Coordinator – Upgraded
Backup QB (A meaningful position with Hasselbeck starting) – Upgraded
Trufant – Healthy
Tatupu – Healthy
BMW helps mitigate the loss of TJ
I'd say WR is upgraded as well.
The addition of Tate and the (possible) emergence of Deon Butler will see to that. And you already mentioned BMW. I think that, while still a good player, Housh is being a little over-valued by our friend Carl. Losing him, especially without compensation and having to pick up the better portion of his salary for the Ravens, hurts but I think that our receiving corps has had a net upgrade over this offseason.
We lost the starting two receivers from last year
Remember – Burleson?
by m_b on Sep 6, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep I remember Burly
Isn’t he the receiver who woudn’t block downfield and only tried hard on plays for him.
The future is looking better
Yep.
With the money he made this year, I don’t mind that he’s gone. He’ll probably look good over there, as the #2 to a ridiculous receiver. Big contract, and good chance of big production is just a higher chance of a good comp pick.
His return skills are good, but would be redundant on this team, and his weaknesses were still present, so all in all it feels like a win all around, including for Detroit and Burleson.
Tate is extremely unlikely to do anything his rookie year. Too raw.
BMW + Butler is not an ugrade over Housh + Burley. With Branch as a wildcard I guess.
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 6, 2010 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions
To be honest, I had completely forgotten about Burleson.
So I will retract my statement. Our receivers have not been improved. I think they are as good though, with the potential to be a hell of a lot better.
Disagree
I think our receivers are much better than last year. Last year the Hawks receivers consisted of Housh + Burly + Branch (oft injured) + Butler (rookie). This year the receivers are BMW (a Housh Clone) + Branch (finally healthy) + Butler (2nd year under his belt) and Tate (up and coming rookie). Don’t get me wrong I will miss both Burly and Housh, but like I said earlier BMW replaces Housh and Branch and/or Butler replaces Burly.
Calling Branch healthy is kind of misleading.
He’s healthy now, sure, but until he shows some prolonged health he’s as reliable as he ever was.
And calling BMW a "Housh clone" is doing him a disservice.
Mike Williams is taller, faster and probably stronger than Housh. Houshmandzadeh probably has more dependable hands and is a crafty and precise route runner. That isn’t to say that Williams can’t develop those qualities, it’s just that he isn’t a possession receiver like Housh is, he’s a bona fied number one if he keeps up the same level of play that he maintained in the preseason.
Thus, like our DBs, I would say that while our receiving corps is probably worse than last year, they have much improved upside.
Housh is also proven.
I am insanely excited about BMW, but Housh >900 yards receiving every year for the past six seasons. The only other receivers I could find who’ve done that are Donald Driver and Reggie Wayne.
Thank you, Walter Jones.
Thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.
That's a very good point.
It’s sort of odd that he wasn’t ever a huge threat in the red zone except for those two seasons on those high flying Bengals offenses.
His athletic profile doesn't make him a huge red zone threat.
He’s tall enough, but doesn’t really have much of a vertical. Nor is he fast or laterally quick.
Is it possible that we're both better AND worse at receiver this year?
Housh and Burly were both known quantities, and perhaps they’ll excel with their new teams and make the Seahawks look foolish for letting them go….but at the same time I think our current WR corps is younger and faster, which might just be an improvement over what we were doing last year.
No.
It’s possible we could start out worse and end up better. Or even start out better and end up worse as the league adjusts to them and finds weaknesses. But we can’t be both at the same time, I think the word you are looking for is different, and since our passing game struggled I’ll take different.
Also, I think the ceiling for this group of WRs, including this year, is far higher.
Field Gullians?
Or Gullistas? I didn’t make it much past “field gullians” as I can’t read any more negative shit about my beloved fucking Seahawks.
peace out. field gullers, field gullinas, field gullonians, field gullitizens, field gullizens…
Field gullets?
inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
by shams on Sep 6, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like Gullistos
Sounds like a Mob Family name, I like it.
by PhoneHomeET29 on Sep 6, 2010 4:33 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think you meant Thomas' INT was Wilson. Not Wilson's interception was Wilson again.
Mo Johnston is what John Schneider could be in 4 years.
It also needs to be mentions that Wilson got beat on Thomas's INT
the receiver fucked up by not pulling the pass in. Wilson made a nice play after the fact, but he was beat.
I responded in that thread, but you moved onto here.
So I’ll repost so you can see where I’m coming from. Basically, my premise is three-part. First, I think the team is better in talent and scheme than a year ago. Second, I think that even when we traded down from polished, more proven talent (backup QB, WR, safety, and CB come to mine) that we exchanged it for large upgrades in talent that looks like it can or already is developing. And third, I agree with you that we could be even better of a team right now if we kept Josh Wilson, TJ, Rob Sims, Deon Grant (who would be a backup) and Tapp. Third is most important, because I agree with you that our on-field talent could be better if we skipped a couple of the moves we’ve made, but I disagree with you that our roster last year was better than our roster now.
Started with the offense.
QB - I’ll take the potential of Whitehurst over the potential of Seneca, even with Teel attached. Seneca had a long time to develop, and was a servicable backup, but was not terribly good. Not trusting Charlie to become the man of the future, but the possibility is at least there.
RB – The starting backfield included Julius Jones and Edgerrin James. Forsett hadn’t even been given a chance. He’s one of the few who was allowed to play, but due to a JJ injury rather than winning in practice. I’ll take Ganther, Washington, and Forsett over Jones, James, and Griffith, who incidentally was a decent FB. We just added Michael Robinson, who apparently is a special teams guru (I’d call him Jeff Ulbrich’s contribution), and also a capable FB, HB, or goal line back in a pinch.
TE - Have to believe there is more potential here with McCoy, but not a lot different.
WR - Loss of Housh from a year ago, and Burleson vs the addition of Golden Tate and Mike Williams. Better long term, worse now. But Mike Williams could be MUCH better than Housh, and Tate could be MUCH better than Burleson.
OL - John already said this, so I’m not going to claim originality or a patent. But I agree that the improvement of Okung over Locklear at LT beats losing Sims for Hamilton. Right now, RT is a question mark. I think Stacey Andrews has good talent, don’t know what our OL scheme is supposed to be any more. A power ZBS? A traditional ZBS? Are we just worrying about pass blocking and we’ll figure out the run game later? I can’t say it’s worse than last year, I’ll take Okung and the fact that we are still starting Spencer over last season.
So offensively, a clear step down at WR, but one I think we are well-positioned to make. I think you’ll see clear upgrades in the passing game’s production due to scheme, so I don’t think we’ll feel the downgrade. Otherwise, we are the roughly the same (QB, TE, OL) while upgrading potential, or clearly better (RB).
As I said, scheme I believe is better, so a net improvement on the offense both in long term potential and this year’s results.
Defense
Safety – This time last year it was "Ding! Dong! The Witch is dead!" as we celebrated the Brian Russell cut. It sure felt like Babineaux would be leaps and bounds better by default, but then it got confusing as Grant continued to play SS and we let Courtney Greene get away for seemingly no good reason. Anyway, We had Babs and Grant starting, signed Milloy, and had Adams backing up? Now we have Earl Thomas and Milloy starting, with Chance on the roster (so far) representing the Courtney Greene potential, and…Ness? Whoever the 4th safety turns out to be, I see it as either a wash between 09 and 10 and a huge improvement in potential, or better today, and a home run in potential.
CB - Last year was Trufant, Lucas, Josh Wilson, Jennings. Or rather, Travis Fisher for Trufant, but the back problem is unrelated to the discussion. Now it’s Trufant, Thurmond III, Jennings, Roy Lewis. As much as Trufant is better this year, it’s no different than if Hasselbeck is better this year. Josh Wilson and Lucas vs T3 and Roy Lewis? Gotta lean towards last year, I don’t think Thurmond can reach 2009 Josh Wilson level yet, but he looks like he’ll be far better than any version of Josh Wilson by next year or the year after.
LB - Not going to comment, the same top 4 players, but this year we have Davis as the 5th. No real difference unless it’s health and suspension related.
DT - Last year was Mebane, Cole, Terrell, Bryant. This year seems to be Mebane, Cole, Terrell, Balmer, and swap out Vickerson for Savaii if the rumors are true. With Red still able to kick inside during passing downs. Gonna say it’s no different. If rumors are wrong and we have Vickerson, I’d call it improved, but the rumors are rarely wrong.
DE - Last year, Kearney, Tapp, Lo-Jack, Corey Redding, Nick Reed. This year, Clemons and Davis on one side, Red Bryant, EJ Wilson and Balmer on the other. Kearney was not the same last year, I’d say Red and Redding are close enough. Redding the more polished player, Red the more powerful. Balmer vs Lo-Jack isn’t a conversation that matters, Clemons vs Tapp is interesting, but Tapp was the better player. EJ Wilson is intriguing, no idea if he’s worth anything. Gotta give 09 the edge on Tapp vs Clemons, but grudgingly, as we also got a 4th out of it. While Kearney, Lo-Jack, and Redding were the other main players. Overall, I like neither squad. I’ll give it to 09, but can’t really call either group good.
Scheme? I’ll take this group, despite consternation over the one-dimensional aspects at the two DE spots. The secondary, especially the safety spots have clear roles and talents to match them, improvement over last year. The scheme is asking Curry to rush, probably a good idea, even if it doesn’t work. And the scheme seems to have turned Red Bryant into a more useful player. The front 7’s roles seem to be clearly defined, instead of a cluster-fuck with no forethought.
Long story short.
Scheme and talent usage is better. A lot of units are not much different. CB there is a clear downgrade, with a brighter future, but with Trufant’s return it’ll probably be overall better than a year ago. Love what they are doing at safety. And the front 7 gives us cause to predict 5-11 seasons, but still, likely better usage of parts of it.
Once again, we could have kept Tapp and Josh Wilson, and Deon Grant. I think looking at it now, switching Tapp for Clemons and a 4th, when Tapp was an expiring contract, is not a bad deal, and at worst a lateral move. Josh Wilson as nickle with Trufant and T3 would have been bad-ass in 2 years and I don’t like it any more today than I did then. But Josh Wilson isn’t the only nickle back that would make it great. It is after all, the nickle position.
Grant at this point wouldn’t really play, but take a roster spot from a young developmental guy, but when we dropped him was a real head-scratcher. Overall, I’d call the defense at or above the level of last year, almost entirely due to scheme, while being miles ahead in potential, mostly in the secondary.
Wow. Very, very good response. I see and understand all your points. I just don't agree with all of them.
You included quite a bit of, “they may not be so good this year, but they win for the long-term,” in your post, but that’s irrelevant. What they do or turn out to be past this year has nothing to do with this year’s squad compared to last year. When you do this, you don’t provide a clear representation of your opinion that they are better or worse than what was fielded last year.
You also mention things like “they could be much better” (like you did with the WR’s) as possible reasons for upgrade. This sort of speculative reasoning doesn’t clearly demonstrate an improvement of this year’s unit from last year’s unit. Experience and proven ability counts, too. This year, particularly with the WR’s, the O-line some groups are just straight up an unproven commodity.
Golden!
by Carl Shinyama on Sep 7, 2010 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I felt like I was clear as I could be.
We have no way of knowing if our WRs will be above average, average, or drastically overmatched. The range of possibilities for Burleson and Housh is more clearly defined than the range of possibilities for Mike Williams, Branch, Butler, and Tate.
So there is no way to say that WR is absolutely better, or absolutely worse. It is a possible upgrade, and it is a possible downgrade, there is no getting around the unknown.
But, Mike Williams is absolutely an improvement in as a goal line reciever over Burly or Housh. Tate is probably going to be a downgrade from Burleson, but so many times Burleson was not putting forth effort, that just getting a full effort run blocking and running decoy routes by Butler and Tate could be enough to tip it in their favor. Plus Burleson dropped more passes than Butler and Tate seem to.
Ultimately, I did not clearly demonstrate an improvement of many of this year’s units over last year, but there is also not a clear decrease in the overall team that I can see. We’ll have to see actual games to futher debate this I believe.
If you were excited about the direction of last years team....
Then you could say that by keeping the same individuals you could technically be “better” with a lower potential ceiling. Albert Einstein felt that the definition of Insanity was “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Curry , Tats and Hill have never played together I believe
not really important , just interesting.
Punks jump up to get beat down.
You sure there wasn't a week last year they were all on the field?
In any case, week one isn’t where that will start.
My bad then I thought Hill was injured.
So one game against a horrible ,horrible team
Punks jump up to get beat down.
IIRC he was injured during that game.
If not, then during practice after, because he didn’t start the next week
Thank you, Walter Jones.
Thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.
Are you sure?
I think they all played week one. After that hill was lost to a groin injury and then the next week Tat went down. Correct me if I am wrong.
Special Teams.
Same boots, better returners in Tate and Washington, and maybe Thurmond III, as much as that scares me. Real effort put in to improve special teams players. First Morey, Obomanu is still here, and now Michael Robinson signed.
No clues as to schemes being better or worse.
Obomanu and Robinson as gunners
Is going to be a joy.
by Scruffy Lefty on Sep 6, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if it was brought up or not in any other threads.
But John Carlson had 2 catches in the preseason. 2!
A big thing coming into this offseason was how Bates was going to use Carlson in the Slot and all over the place to get more opportunities as a receiver. With BMFMW showing he can play the outside. It was likely Housh was going to see a lot of time in the Slot which would probably take away opportunities for Carlson.
Okung's injury seemed to have a lot to do with that.
Carlson was catching everything coming his way in training camp. I’d expect the return of Okung will be the day Carlson starts running lots of routes again.
Hi Carl... Thanks for the contribution.
The only problem with your assessment is that the Hawks were so bad last year that it wont take much to better what they did. Given that we also play several young QB’s, their inexperience may make us look better than we actually are.
We could end up looking like a better team.
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
PS: Screen name isn't what you think it means.
I'm looking to the future with great anticipation
I believe that regardless of which traded or cut players you think they should have kept (Wilson, Tapp, Sims, Housh, etc…) they were not going to be good. I’m hoping Whitehurst pans out and next draft brings Mark Ingram and Rodney Hudson. The O-line could look like Okung, Hudson, Spencer, Unger and Andrews and the offense could be clicking with Whitehurst, Ingram, Carlson, Williams, Butler and Tate. Things could be really looking up in 2011, so I’m willing to accept that 2010 won’t be much more than playing time for younger players who are part of the long-term solution.
So the real question is
can this year’s team win more games than last years team regardless of talent level.
Yes, it can.
Last year’s team began with an onslaught of injuries that was a continuation of the onslaught begun in 2008. The new coaching staff had no answers for that. By the time injured offense players returned, key defenders were gone. By midseason, the team was demoralized by losses, without their quarterback, confused by an incomprehensible and ineffective offensive scheme. They finished the year with broken spirits and tired legs.
You don’t need a more talented group of players to come out better than that. You just need some good health, good coaching, and good luck. They might get it.
"Football players are temperamental. That's 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental." - Doug Plank
Careful, you're making me hopeful.
I’ve been burned before….
Thank you, Walter Jones.
Thank you, Ken Griffey Jr.
31-6 over the Niners?
Means you appear to be wrong.
Josh Wilson? Notice that Kelly Jennings looked great as the starting corner, that Babineaux was one of the difference makers as our nickelback.
Housh? Branch, Butler, and M. Williams all played well. The speed they bring opens up underneath routes for all the TEs Jeremy Bates uses. We didn’t miss him.
Deon Grant? Are you kidding me? Earl Thomas looks great. His range in coverage allows us to use a heavy hitter like Milloy to his strengths and put him in the box. Grant is inneffective in that position
The Odenphant is true king of the jungle.
And don't bring up depth
You can always say the depth would be better. But if you keep a perrenial starter like Wilson, Housh, or Grant on the roster and don’t start them it, they wll not like it. And that hurts team chemistry. Really our chemistry, coaching, and effort is what won the game yesterday. Getting rid of these players may have helped with that
The Odenphant is true king of the jungle.

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