Seahawks at Bears Notes
Sometimes the game is on my mind and sometimes what the game means consumes most of my postgame thoughts. The latter dominated yesterday. With the season over, and the realization that the season is over really dawning on me this morning, I wanted to take one last chance to talk about the Seahawks recent performance and what I thought worked and what I thought didn't work.
- Matt Hasselbeck had a very good game. He had protection. He found open receivers. Though most of his stats were acquired in garbage time, and though all of Seattle's 24 inconsequential points were scored in the deepest recesses of garbage time, that wasn't Hasselbeck or the offense's fault.
- Seattle has been blown out in ten different ways, if you want to be specific about it. We could probably group those blowouts into two distinct variants though: Games the offense sputtered and the defense slowly crumbled and games the offense was okay but the defense was run off the field. Oakland, at St. Louis and New Orleans were prime examples of the former. At San Francisco, Denver and yesterday's game against the Bears are good examples of the latter.
- Greg Olsen had more yards and as many touchdowns yesterday as he had in his previous six games. His first reception, a 58 yard touchdown pass that symbolically ushered Lawyer Milloy out of the league, was worth 17% win probability. In application, it was worth even more. Both teams needed an early lead. The Bears seized it.
- Olsen's next reception was worth 6% win probability. His next, a 22 yard reception early in the second quarter, was worth only 1%, but that's because the Bears were already so far ahead. Chicago was at 87% at the end of the first quarter, and that assumes neutral opponents and no home field. In reality, the Bears top ten defense was protecting a two touchdown advantage against a traveling Seahawks team with a bottom five offense and a bottom five passing offense. The game was effectively over.
- The Seahawks didn't lose just because they couldn't cover Olsen, but it was a particularly bad matchup and Seattle seemed ill prepared to stop it. After pointing to Mike Martz's stubbornness as a play caller as one reason the Seahawks could beat the Bears, Martz outsmarted Pete Carroll, Gus Bradley, Dan Quinn, et al. Had it been an aberration, it would be forgivable, but it's not and auditing the leadership and direction of this defense is imperative now. I will get into that in a separate post.
- So the Seahawks defense fell apart, but Seattle battled on and scored three meaningless touchdowns in the fourth quarter. Hasselbeck was particularly good and even as much of his surrounding talent was not. Mike Williams struggles with physical coverage. He was targeted 14 times and only turned five targets into a reception or penalty. Williams struggled with separation and drops. Charles Tillman bullied Williams, and that is discouraging.
- I am not going to open a can of worms about Hasselbeck. There is nothing I can do if the Seahawks chose to re-sign him but hope for the best. He had two of his best games in the two final games of the season, but that followed what's now being called a benching. (Which is sort of strange in its own way, but that is a subject for another day.) That two game stretch will be prime evidence in the campaign to re-sign Hasselbeck. As will how often his surrounding talent has let him down. It sounds like Jeremy Bates is in Hasselbeck's camp. It will be interesting. I think you only re-sign Hasselbeck if you intend for him to start. Fans want to foist a mentor role on Matt, but he's better than that and wants more than that. And for the record, I hope Hasselbeck signs with Cleveland, enjoys some success with that almost fully built offense and Seattle commits to the tear down.
- A healthy Brandon Stokley is Matt's favorite receiver--of the last three years. That's a real testament to the disconnect between Ruskell's FO and the Seahawks coaching staff. In Ruskell's entire tenure, he added one receiver that Hasselbeck gelled with: Joe Jurevicius.
- Route running can be divided into two abilities: separation and accuracy. Nate Burleson could get separation, but he wasn't in the right place at the right time. Stokley can not get the same kind of separation, but Matt -the Objectivist as we used to call him- thrives with a receiver he can trust fully. A receiver that is skilled at spacing, timing and that catches almost everything he touches. It took a midseason pickup for Seattle to finally add a receiver he can work with. If Seattle doesn't sign Stokley, I don't think they make the playoffs. He became the Seahawks most valuable per target receiver. He turned 44 targets into 31 receptions and 23 first downs. That's an Engram-like ratio, implying that Seattle's decade long slot magic wasn't about Bobby Engram or Mike Holmgren but Matt Hasselbeck.
- If the Seahawks want to re-sign Matt, I hope they use Stokley as an example of what works. But, as I said, I still hope Hasselbeck signs with Cleveland. He would love Brian Robiskie.
- So the Seahawks fell behind early and scored ultra late and saved a little face, but though 35-24 doesn't look like a beatdown, it was. It's obvious on the win probability graph:
-
- The Bears took control of the game in the first and Seattle's late push was too little way too late.
- In light of the blowout, Seahawks fans should probably cheer for the Bears. That is, the prudent decision would be to cheer for the Bears. The Packers are sexier. The Packers always seem to have an underground bandwagon. The Packers are capable of tearing the Bears to shreds, but since Seattle didn't play Green Bay and since we will never know for sure how the Seahawks would have fared against Green Bay, Chicago carries the torch of the Seahawks 2010 season. The better the Bears are, the better the Seahawks are by relation. If Chicago hosts Green Bay in the NFC Championship and Green Bay blows their doors off, then we can probably heap the Bears in with teams like San Francisco, Oakland and Tampa Bay. Mediocre teams that ran roughshod over the Seahawks.
- Now that the season is over, my focus is once again on the Seahawks being a good team. The Bears breaking out and making a Super Bowl run, implies in some small way that if not for yesterday's loss, maybe the Seahawks could have been the one to break out and make a Super Bowl run. That is, if no one beats the Bears, then the Seahawks lost to the eventual champions.
Of course, who cares about consolation prizes?
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Thanks John.
Good write up. I look forward to seeing your thoughts on the defensive game plan, which I was, to be honest, not a huge fan of.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Jan 17, 2011 3:11 PM PST reply actions
The 3 man rush over and over and over
John mentioned there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with it, and he’s right as evidenced by the Jets getting several sacks without blitzing, but we don’t have the Jets secondary to account for good coverage. When the secondary sucks and you give Cutler loads of time then eventually you have to abandon the whole plan to defend and not rush him.
I actually believe Bradley outsmarted himself and figured Chicago would adjust to the Bandit packages, hence the near 180 in the gameplan yesterday.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
I agree on Bradley
Just because we could get pressure with the 3-man rush AT HOME does not mean we can take that on the road on frozen turf and be successful. Not to mention that Cutler is prone to horrible decision making when rushed. Giving him all day to scan the field definitely made his first ever playoff performance easier.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Jan 17, 2011 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
I don't want to do self-promotion
But I can’t embed it in a fanpost, so in the link below is a slideshow of our win probability in all 10 losses.
http://ssreporters.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/the-seattle-seahawks-season-summed-up-in-ten-graphs/
The Chicago game was literally the 10th “flat line” of the season. Seattle has not been competitive in their road losses since the McMuffin Era of 2008.
And for more self-promotion, I bitch about Aaron Curry all week and he sniffs out a Devin Hester screen, helps stop a Matt Forte run (before Taylor scored), and then records the easiest first interception of his career.
See? Chicago is the game he gets up for!
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
question:
Olson really took the game away from us but I thought we were relatively good at covering tight ends this year, VD and Gates aside. What was it about this match-up that killed us? Was it scheme? Or just a player falling asleep on him like Milloy?
7 picks for 7 quarterbacks in Draft 2011! EFF IT!
by Seatown_Sport_Head321 on Jan 17, 2011 3:19 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Yes! In the replays
you can see the disdain and disregard in Milloy’s face before Olsen stoically burns him for 58 and the TD
by jubelthebear on Jan 17, 2011 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
The dropped interception poked the "game over" center in my brain
But I vowed to not post during this game unless we took the lead.
I never posted yesterday.
Honestly, from our first 3-and-out on Sunday, this Bears team never felt like a team we were going to be able beat. We looked cold, sore, and timid with our cuts on the (admittedly terrible) playing surface. We had a lot of drops, but just as many incompletions where Matt just wasn’t quite accurate enough. We got banged up, but I don’t think this is due to being outplayed physically but rather not being accustomed to falling on frozen ground- you have to train yourself to fall differently.
Jon Ryan seemed to have one of the worst games of his career, frozen football or not. The Bears’ entire punt unit played completely lights out. It was absolutely fucking infuriating seeing that ball downed inside the 5 over and over and over again.
Can anyone account for John Carlson being the Invisible Seahawk for 16 weeks, and then becoming an indisposable part of our gameplan, offense, and playbook in the postseason?
What the hell was up with special teams?
That was vintage DeHaven days bad.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Let's go SAT style.
Devin Hester is to Leon Washington as:
The offseason is to Seahawks hope
Charlie Sheen is to hookers and coke
Peyton Manning is to Alex Smith
Devin Hester is such an impact player he single handedly destroys opponents special teams gameplans.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you for using words like "aberration" and "roughshod"
I have been working those words into my daily vocabulary the past two months, and appreciate seeing them used elsewhere (ex. I used the word roughshod to a buddy after running through an intersection on 6th after the New Orleans game. That is to say I took a diagnol route through it. True story.).
Also, good post.
Cutler abused the bandit over and over
And I nearly exploded each time. How do you allow wide open receptions when EIGHT FUCKING DEFENDERS drop into coverage!? Holy cow, talk about infuriating.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Author of The Seahawks Asylum: http://seahawksblog.wordpress.com
So did Terry Labonte in 1984.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with the Hasselbeck assesment
I loved his two playoff games, and almost think it may make him too expensive for Seattle to bring back. It would be awesome to see him succeed with another team like Cleveland. We visit the Browns next season. Speaking of schedule…
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/30855/2011-seahawks-schedule-by-record-venue
Shit. That’s Andrew Luck sweepstakes territory.
In all likelihood Seattle will miss the playoffs
If not finish 3rd or last in the NFC West. There are too many holes on this team that can’t be fixed in a year.
I’m certain Hasselbeck stays now even though I don’t want him to. This is the first time since week 7 that Hass has more TDs (19) than INTs (18).
If Hasselbeck stays and Seattle drafts a QB in the early rounds I think Whitehurst is out.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
I can't see how we'd give up on Charlie so early
We’ve already made the investment in the trade and the additional costs of a roster spot and salary shouldn’t be too prohibitive.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 17, 2011 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
Well if Hasselbeck re-signs
Does that eliminate us from getting a QB in the early rounds or does that mean if the rookie QB plays well and Hasselbeck doesn’t that Hass will get cut?
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
They can keep three quarterbacks just fine.
But that’s just a bloody mess all around. Matt will have to play excellent to keep his job, while Charlie and “da Rook” will have to fight for snaps with the starting offense (do YOU want your QB future dependent on Tate running the right route?).
Nevermind the fact that we’d have to re-sign Hass. A rookie QB wouldn’t be particularly cheap, especially out of the first round. Are we going to make millionaires out of three QB’s?
If we re-sign Hass, I don’t see any way in which we keep Charlie and draft a QB in the first round.
Charlie's contract isn't that bad.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
From Roto-world
3/17/2010: Signed a two-year, $8 million contract. Another $2 million is available through incentives. 2010: $2 million, 2011: $4 million, 2012: Free Agent
I don’t see that as that bad, all things considering.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
I think that reads:
2010: 2 million
2011: 4 million
Another two million available through incentives.
2012 free agent.
It isn’t completely clear, but I think it means 6 million plus 2 in incentives. It could be 2 million signing bonus and another 2 million in incentives I guess. Hard to gather.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
Late first round picks aren't that expensive.
I’d rather see them do something like Stanton (or Young if the price is reasonable), Whitehurst and a rookie, but I’m resigned to the idea that they’ll bring back Matt for another year.
And Carroll would love the competition.
Seattle probably can not re-sign Hasselbeck and then cut him
It would have to eat a bunch of guaranteed money. More than I imagine it could.
If Seattle re-signs Hasselbeck, we must assume he’s the starter to be.
If his contract's expired
doesn’t that mean he’s already received all of his promised monies? And that we can, if so inclined, cut him or simply not re-sign him with no further financial issues?
Can't cut a free agent, of course
My comment assumes Seattle re-signs him. If they do, he will have guaranteed money and Seattle will not be able to cut him later in the off-season.
Good point.
It’s possible that Hasselbeck gets offered a McNabb-like contract. Maybe a 2-3 year deal, with a halfway decent bonus and more incentives than actual salary.
Of course, even with that money, keeping Hasselbeck means that we’ll be taking ourselves out of the ring for an upper-level QB draft pick. That might mean that we’ll be looking for a late round flier or another Nate Davis or three to help compete.
From the day Charlie got here
Pete and John have said that a first round QB was a possibility (with Matt and Charlie in the mix). I don’t think much has changed on that front.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 17, 2011 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
That would be a lot of salary tied up in one position
Among three players, assuming that we use a higher draft pick on a QB. If we take a later round flyer, than we do keep Whitehurst, but we need to spread the money around to a few other areas as well.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Jan 17, 2011 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
Wait
Doesn’t the NFL usually withhold schedules until late spring, and then do a big phony “unveiling” special? Or are the opponents freely available, and the actual order of the games is the mystery?
The Raiders and Chiefs looked liked gimmes last offseason
Strength of schedule doesn’t mean much a year out.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 17, 2011 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's safe to say
Most of those opponents are rather solid year in and year out, or they’re at least young and built for success.
Here's to hoping Pittsburgh or Chicago loses the Super Bowl
And we catch them with the SB Loser’s Curse.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
I hope neither team gets there.
Both fan bases are insufferable.
Hmm. So are the Pack. sigh.
Go Jets. At least their fan base is pretty non-existent on the west coast.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
And Rex Ryan would also win one...
and that would be awesome in about 800 ways.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
With Folk's FG and Holmes' insane TD catch
Ryan will have all the foot worship he’ll ever need.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Did you see the Wes Welker interview?
It was fantastic. Also, a top notch parody by an Oakland A.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
Head Coaching ring.
WAAAAAAYYYYYY different.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
I love the fact that Roger Goodell has worked hard to sap the individuality out of the league.
And Rex’s whole team embodies it. Did you see Bart Scott’s post game interview! It was FUN.
NFL doesn’t mean No Fun League when the Jets are involved.
And the foot thing… I mean, c’mon, it’s comedic GOLD!!
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree.
The great part is, you can always press mute. When a Rex-type isn’t around though, there’s no way to turn the volume up.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
Here is Rex Ryan in a nutshell:
I’m fat! I say whatever the hell I want and blitz whenever the hell I want! I think my team is better than your team and take your previous success as a team PERSONALLY!
He’s not interesting, he’s loud.
We disagree.
I find him entertaining. You do not.
In all fairness, I don’t watch much tv so I only get him when I’m watching NFL games and when I chose to click on something online. If he is on ESPN all the time and you watch it, I could see the irritation grow. Of course, for me all of ESPN is an irritation these days, so I don’t get over-inundated with him.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
Same here. Ryan always struck as a Jim Mora Jr type, but coaching a far, far better team.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Author of The Seahawks Asylum: http://seahawksblog.wordpress.com
Eh
There’s a lot of shitty players with rings. If the Jets won, it probably wouldn’t be because of Sanchez.
This is more personal
I know someone who is utterly convinced Sanchez will be an elite QB and he’s not even a Jets fan.
I’m tired of the Sanchez overhype and the sooner the Jets are out the better. With the talent around him he should be in the Pro Bowl or an All-Pro next year.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Maybe
But they are pretty obnoxious, and I’d rather not see santonio Holmes get another sb ring
Lonely like cheese and baloney only / I could've broke my sacroiliac
Silly grind, Billy Jack, illy nine milli black - MF DOOM
by Wayward Llama on Jan 18, 2011 7:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
You thought the Raiders at Oakland and the Chiefs looked like gimmies?
I had the Raiders at 9-7. I certainly did not see them as a gimmie for this team on the road. Though, admittedly, I saw Denver as a win.
I thought the AFC West was going to finish Raiders and SD tied at 9-7, Chiefs at 8-8, and Denver with about 4 wins.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
First place in the division gets us all of the other first place teams next year.
I’m not too optimistic about next year.
Fuck the Bears.
And I hate football until the Seahawks start playing again.
On a lighter note, I’m actually very satisfied with the way the season went. There is absolutely nothing that could have been better for our young players than the playoff experience they gained.
Tight ends have been a weakness to us all season
I mean Gates, Gonzalez, Graham, Zach Miller, Vernon Davis, etc. all had a big part in our losses. Seems like this area is the biggest key to next year.
I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus
Miller had one reception for eight yards. Gonzo: 4 for 26.
Seattle doesn’t defend tight ends particularly well, but they do not defend any skill position particularly well.
Priority has to be given to stopping receptions by backs. That was beyond damaging and all season.
Both issues would seem to point out to linebacker concerns
Although at face value we would seem to be set at linebacker it doesn’t appear that the results bear that out.
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Jan 17, 2011 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think we're entirely set at LB anymore
Hill is sure to be gone and Tatupu’s future should be in doubt.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
I'm in the "cut Tatupu" camp right now
"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch
by crushedoptimist on Jan 17, 2011 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
I think that's the first game where Curry was significantly better than Tatupu
Not to ostracize how Curry played, but how badly Tats was.
He’s been like this even without the concussion.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Makes sense
I feel for Lofa because his dad died just recently and he’s had his worst season yet. He has to feel awful.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
I've been there, as several of us probably have
So I understand. And I truly like the guy, but I feel like he has peaked and we could possibly get good trade value for him. Not to mention moving heater to MLB where he has already shown big potential. If last season taught us anything it’s that this admin will make big moves, tatupu may be next
Lonely like cheese and baloney only / I could've broke my sacroiliac
Silly grind, Billy Jack, illy nine milli black - MF DOOM
by Wayward Llama on Jan 18, 2011 7:56 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
And that's a ridiculously uncomfortable feeling
Not for Tatupu, of course. Nobody deserves to be on a successful team more than him. But every free agent, draft pick, or waiver pickup by the Patriots sends waves of, “What did they see in this guy that we didn’t?” from 31 other general managers and coaches.
Of course, when you draft a demigod in the sixth round, you tend to get a reputation for talent evaluation.
It's a young unit and deep.
Tatupu could be a mentor, and New England’s 3-4 could hide his limited range. He could succeed in New England without it being a mistake that Seattle moved on without him. That, honestly, is what I want for Lofa Tatupu: a chance to succeed again. It’s what I wanted for Branch and one reason I was happy to see him go.
I really wish we'd look long and hard at going 3-4.
Play Clemons in the Lamar Woodley role and move Curry to either the Harrison role, or maybe even inside to the Timmons role. And Tatupu of course, if we keep him, could be Farrior.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought the "Leo" was the position where the player could shift from DE to OLB
I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus
It isn't fully a 3-4 though.
We basically only see Clemons rushing, and rarely dropping into coverage. The 3-4 creates 4 different places from which a pass rush can come, it doesn’t allow an offense to “know” where the pressure will typically be generated from.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
hmm.
Thomas Tatupu was not so bad until injuries wrecked him.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I think we have bigger problems than Tats.
And I think his ability to “run” the defense is underappreciated due to his lack of physical skills. Make the players around him better, and he gets more valuable.
I disagree entirely.
“I think his ability to “run” the defense is underoverappreciated due to his lack of physical skills.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It's certainly easier to see it that way.
His lack of physical skills are readily apparent… i.e. if he looks slow, or fails to make a tackle. But his effect on the defense as a whole is a lot more difficult to ascertain. Maybe if we looked at his pre-snap adjustments, and compared them to when someone else was at the Mike.
Well, if he's helping with pre-snap adjustments, then our D is worse than I thought.
We’re not doing all that great defensively, after all. How much worse could it be without his highly touted ability to read and adjust?
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
Not at all.
If his biggest benefit to being there is pre-snap adjustment, but those adjustments aren’t making up for his (and his teammates) lack of execution, what good are they?
I think there are plenty of guys out there who may not be quite as good at quarterbacking the D, but are 5x’s the player on the field. We have to look at replacing him… or hiding him. But a 4-3 doesn’t allow for hiding a MLB like a 3-4 would/could.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 6:09 PM PST up reply actions
agreed
i don’t want to hide the “quarterback of the defense”.
im a bit confused
How do you say that hass had a good game when the hawks basically went 3 and out on every possession that mattered? He accrued great stats in the 4th quarter but against a soft defense that wasn’t worried about much but deep plays. Of course hass had a lot of dropped balls, but he also made his share of bad throws, again when the game mattered.
It’s no question that Matt has been one of the worst QBs in the league over the last three years. I am pretty sure that hass lacks the ability to lead thus team to a superbowl. At best staying with hass will give us a mediocre to bad seahawks team. The hawks need to rebuild and the first item of importance is finding our own Aaron rogers and letting go of our own version of a poor man’s favre.
by plyka on Jan 17, 2011 4:04 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Hasselbeck had a good game
Made several good throws that BMW and Obo and especially Morrah dropped.
I really wish we could’ve seen more screens with Golden Tate. He’s got great ability to shed tackles.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Hass's
throws were nearly all good throws, but like you said, drops kill the QB and the team.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 17, 2011 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
You didn't envision a figurative "roll" being foisted on Hasselbeck? Perhaps a cinnamon roll?
Thanks and fixed.
*insert obligatory Golden Tate pastry reference*
"Retarded isn't a race." -Thingray
by Matt Erickson on Jan 17, 2011 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
I don't blame the "Bandit" package
Because I was under the impression that the Bandit package was a blitz thing. Eight men in coverage is just…eight men in coverage.
Which creates problems because nobody in those eight, and I mean nobody, is reliable in coverage. Not our corners, not our safeties, not our linebackers, and not our DE’s. Nobody.
I am very much looking forward to an evaluation of Carroll and co. as coaches.
I wasn’t all that optimistic considering the situation in which Pete was hired, or his history in the NFL. Sure, he took a crappy team to 7-9, but (as has been pointed out) many numbers say the 2010 Seahawks are worse than the 2009 Seahawks.
This team beat a few truly lousy teams and snuck by some decent ones when the timing was perfect. I think there was definitely some improvement right at the end of the season, especially on the offensive line and thus from Matt/Beef/Force, but otherwise I think a lot of the moves made by this FO made the team worse. I’m particularly worried about Bradley.
Made the team worse?
I don’t see that. If anything they whiffed on Whitehurst and left a defensive rebuild incomplete, but they made improvements in plenty of areas. The team was bad because of Hasselbeck.
Then, of course, there is always still the chance that we didn't whiff on Whitehurst.
He needs game time. Live game time. He’s 1-1 as a starter, with a huge win in which he looked okay and did some interesting things. Maybe he never gets any better… but maybe he does. Of course, we’ll probably never know or get the chance to find out, since we seem to refuse to sacrifice an inch today for a mile tomorrow.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
Whitehurst and Hasselbeck both playing well the last 3 weeks
Is good and bad.
Because now there’s a good chance both of them stay and we stick with the same ol crap instead of moving on.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
I can't see how Whitehurst staying is a bad thing.
He didn’t get a chance.
And we can still draft a QB, since we were one of the few teams that only carried two.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
Whitehurst staying is not a bad thing
But not really fixing the QB situation is problematic and one of Hass or Whitehurst should leave as a result. I highly doubt we’ll have a 1st or 2nd round QB sitting as 3rd string.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Why not?
It happens from time to time. The guy is “3rd string” for a year while he gets acclimated, then the following year moves into the number 1 slot.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
Wins aren't a QB statistic
“1-1 as a starter” doesn’t really mean anything.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 17, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
I agree to a point.
But the people who argue Charlie was bad (and we should hence keep Matt in) conveniently disallow him any growth time at all, and say “Matt gives us the best chance to win now.” Well, Charlie is .500, and Matt was less.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
I actually used this argument to "win" the only baseball argument I'll ever have
When people were bitching about Felix over CC in the Cy Young.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Again, I don't disagree.
Originally I was primarily speaking of his lack of opportunity.
He needs game time. Live game time. He’s 1-1 as a starter, with a huge win in which he looked okay and did some interesting things. Maybe he never gets any better… but maybe he does. Of course, we’ll probably never know or get the chance to find out, since we seem to refuse to sacrifice an inch today for a mile tomorrow.
That turned into a discussion about how wins aren’t a statistic.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
QB play didn't submarine this season,
Outside of special teams, this team was a train wreck on both sides of the ball. I don’t care if you think Hasselbeck was the worst QB in the league for most of the season, this team is short on talent and youth.
I'm not denying that the D was bad.
But Hass was the sole contributor of the multiple turnovers that sunk at least three games this year.
Yes, this is absolutely true
The big question is whether Matt’s earlier incompetence was something he was able to grow out of or whether the good games were outliers.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 17, 2011 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
Why should we expect/anticipate a 35 year old QB to "grow out of" any mistakes?!?
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 9:59 PM PST up reply actions
Why should I expect/anticipate that any response I could give would change your mind?!?
You’re a broken record, dude.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 17, 2011 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think that's an unreasonable question.
Guy is 35. He’s a 12 year veteran. What’s left to grow out of at that point?!? Seriously.
I would ask that of ANY 35 year old player in the NFL, not just him.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 11:53 PM PST up reply actions
He could be learning how to play with his declining arm strength.
Pennington was able to be successful with a worse arm than Matt, maybe he’s finding out how to compensate for lost physical abilities.
Hey, it wasn't my initial observation either.
But multiple references by John to the team’s statistical decline changed my mind.
Factor in the jettisoning of a lot of the team’s younger talent and I’m pretty “meh” on Carroll so far. I also thought he really, really fucked up the whole Hass/Charlie thing.
I'm not relying on numbers.
The team was better. Not by a whopping margin, but it was better. The team’s numbers could be explained by all kinds of things, and I don’t see how we can let them invalidate these:
- Picked up two great edge rushers.
- Enhanced the #1 WR at a fraction of the cost of 2009.
- Improved our pass blocking.
- Made something out of nothing with our D-line (for a while, at least).
- Leon.
- Committed to developing and finding value in players like Obomanu, Butler, Hawthorne, Morrah, and Gibson.
by Brandon8 on Jan 17, 2011 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I like BMW, but I'm not willing to call him a "#1 WR" yet.
He’s a good receiver, but is he a number 1?
But good points overall.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 17, 2011 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
He's not a #1
He drops the ball too often, gets pushed off his routes too often and can’t stretch the field. He’s a pretty great #2, though.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 17, 2011 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
A list of good moves can be made for any coach or executive, etc.
Not to argue the particulars of your list, but listing achievements often tells less than half of the story.
For instance, who does this list describe?
by John Morgan on Jan 17, 2011 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
That's a good looking resume, Mr. Bavasi
But, tell me, is there a reason why you don’t list any references?
If Stokely is Matt's favorite receiver because of his route running why wasn't Hasselbeck able to find the time of day for Carlson?
His disappearance this year was endlessly frustrating.
I think Carlson got in Carroll's doghouse. I liked how we used him against the Saints and
expect he was a big part of Sunday’s game plan against the Chicago.
I would also like to examine how much contact, “chipping”, he was making at the line of scrimmage in prior seasons.
by Trojan Knight on Jan 17, 2011 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
Carlson had a pretty low catch rate for the first part of the season
Carlson may also have had more attentions from defenses to start the season. Then he was forced to block a bunch when MRob went down. Then he got banged up. Then Morrah showed up and, I think, Carlson had a hard time competing for targets.
I think there are a lot of reasons why Carlson may have struggled but none of them rule out a return to relevancy in 2011.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 17, 2011 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
RE: Packers vs. Bears
As a Hawk fan, I have a lot of negative feeling for both teams. However, I think that I am going to be a Packers fan by default this year. I can’t stand the Bears, the Jets or the Steelers.
Also, Aaron Rodgers seems to be a pretty good guy, and I would love for him to exorcise the ghost of Brett Favre by winning the Super Bowl.

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