Offensive Coordinators for the Seahawks to Consider
Seattle has a line coach but no offensive coordinator. In theory, the power structure should branch from the head coach to the two main coordinators and then to the position coaches, and so this sort of stinks. Not stinks as in it's foul, but stinks as in it stinks like a botched or half-formed plan. When Seattle hired Pete Carroll to be the team's head coach and vice president, there were some murmurs that it knocked some prominent general manager candidates out of the running. I would anticipate the same impact from Seattle hiring Cable. Some coordinators are not likely to be interested in joining a situation in which a supposed subordinate has say over their hiring, instead of vice versa.
The hiring of a line coach isn't small beer, either. An offense is a system. It's not a set of interchangeable parts. If the line coach wants to install a zone blocking scheme, the larger offense needs to mesh with that. No football play is discrete. Each in its way feeds off another play. If the team runs the ball with a zone blocking scheme, play action must first imitate a zone run. That means a shifting pocket and typically a quarterback that can boot. If the run game and pass game can not harmonize, play fakes are ineffective. An offense that can not disguise its intentions is doomed to fail.
Here's some potential candidates with a little explanation:
Joe Philbin
Philbin is the current offensive coordinator for the Green Bay Packers. He might be a little busy over the next few weeks. When a coach coordinates an offense as successful as Green Bay's has been, the next move is often to head coaching. However Philbin works under Mike McCarthy and McCarthy is recognized as the Packers offensive guru. Philbin might need to succeed independently of McCarthy to become a legitimate head coaching candidate, and a position under a defensive minded coach could do that.
The Packers have one of the most creative and consistently successful offenses in the NFL. McCarthy uses a zone blocking scheme, so there's cohesion. Green Bay is definitely pass-first. This season, that is partly because of the season ending injury suffered by Ryan Grant in week one. Slant: the Packers embraced the pass by necessity. But even with a healthy Grant, McCarthy calls a pass-first offense.The Packers finished 11-5 in 2009, Grant finished with 1,253 yards rushing and 4.4 yards per attempt, and Green Bay still only called run plays in 42% of all snaps. So, it's systemic.
That might be a deal breaker for Carroll and Cable, but it shouldn't be. Imposing a style, or valuing a style over actual results, is foolish.
Rick Dennison
Much of what I wrote about Philbin and McCarthy can be repeated for Dennison and Texans head coach Gary Kubiak. Dennison has been a successful offensive coordinator, but only as a second fiddle to an offensive-minded head coach. Before serving under Kubiak, he was the Broncos offensive coordinator from 2006 to 2008, and before that promotion, he was the Broncos offensive line coach from 2001 to 2005. That means Dennison offers one of the better chances for continuity.
The Texans system isn't really known for its creativity, but it has been very effective. Over the last three seasons, Houston has finished third, fourth and third in total yards on offense. That hasn't always translated to points, much less winning, but it's hardly an offensive coordinator's job to ensure his team wins. If the offense finishes in the top five in total yards three seasons running, something is working.
Dennison makes sense from a scheme standpoint and from a continuity standpoint, but whether Seattle makes sense for Dennison is another matter. After three seasons of failed offenses, coaching candidates could be wary. I would be. Then again, who wouldn't want to escape this kind of idiotic scrutiny.
Matt LaFleur
If Seattle does find itself desperate, and starts seriously considering options like Chilly and Zorn, maybe it could go young again and roll the dice with an up and comer. LaFleur is a fast rising assistant coach that started with the Texans, first as a wide receiver coach and then in 2009 as a quarterback coach, before taking over as quarterback coach for the Redskins. This Broncos-, Texans-, Redskins-chain might seem a bit much, but this is how the NFL works: Knowing the right people means everything in the NFL and LaFleur knows the right people.
There's not a whole lot to say about The Flower, other than that he's young, fast rising and knows the system.
The Seahawks may be in a bit of a fix. It wouldn't surprise me if they are forced to eventually promote Cable, in much the way the Redskins hired Jim Zorn as offensive coordinator before naming a head coach. It's a backwards process, and one I doubt many aspiring coordinators would accept. But we'll see. Someone will agree to a six-figure salary to think and talk and play and work on football all day. Someone with ties to the Broncos, Texans, Redskins, Raiders or Packers, I presume.
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Good stuff JM
Never considered that hiring an OL coach before an OC might have repercussions like this.
First exposure to FG offseason coverage- loving it so far.
by jhmg16 on Jan 18, 2011 7:08 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I think it's doubtful we hire an OC who is currently an OC elsewhere
It just doesn’t happen that much in the NFL. Personally I think Philbin would be crazy to leave the situation he has in Green Bay unless it was for a head coaching job. He is not anymore likely to find success than where he is in the next few years. LaFleur might be more of a possibility, although I would be shocked if Carroll rolled the dice on another younger unproven coordinator. I fully expect that our next OC will be the least sexy choice you could imagine. Maybe even Brad Childress, maybe even Norm Chow.
Dear god no
To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.
I think JM brings up good points about needing to get out of the shadow of an offensive minded head coach though.
I don’t really see it as a stretch for a successful OC to try and duplicate success elsewhere to prove his merit and earn a HC position.
Time to start the petition for a 52 game season
by B.B.Finnegan on Jan 18, 2011 7:24 PM PST up reply actions
That's weak
100 game season.
Then we’ll see how many players complain about post-retirement injuries.
No, I wouldn’t do that. Jeez, sarcasm, what’s your problem?
But really, if the lockout happens, I will make a resolution to drive 35 in the left lane so everyone can share my frustration.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 18, 2011 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
Well if you do 35 in left lane up here on I5
Then you are a speed demon.
No where else in the civilized world have I seen so many slow and clueless drivers.
“Stay to the right except to pass”
Not just the law, but gosh darn good sense.
/rant off
by IslandHawk on Jan 18, 2011 8:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
At least I5 has enough lanes to just pass on the right
So much of the freeway system down here in FL is just 2 lanes each direction. Get a slow fucker in the left lane and a semi in the right and ur SOL
Whozat?
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 18, 2011 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
Is a bit of a gamble when Drew Brees and Sean Payton run your offense
I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus
by EequalsMc2 on Jan 18, 2011 9:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Is a bit of a gamble when Drew Brees and Sean Payton run your offense
I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus
by EequalsMc2 on Jan 18, 2011 9:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not a huge fan of Bates
- But the Seahawks really shot themselves in the foot with this one.
I would rather not.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 18, 2011 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
Really?!?
God, why?
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 19, 2011 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Not Childress!!!
He has about 8 plays in his playbook and without AP, none of them will work. Listening to play-by-play of a Vikings game was like listening to one play on repeat. “Big set this time… The quarterback takes the snap… Handoff to Petersen… Runs behind the left guard for about 4 yards.”
Very conflicted on Bates
Some of his play calling seemed truly inexplicable, and I mean beyond the Holmgren “3rd down special”. But man, some stuff really shined. I feel like another season and a QB that fit his system more might have made for some great times.
But admittedly, part of being an OC is playing the hand you’re dealt, and it seemed like adaptability both in the macro and the micro was Bates’ weakness.
So, i’ll lift a glass to whomever we bring in next, in the hopes that we give them at least 3 seasons to pan out. I think it might have been Scruffy that made that his unofficial “par” for a coach, but it seems like a good number to me.
Good cop bad cop ?
Seahawks.com has Cable as assistant Head Coach/O-line Coach
It's not uncommon to have the "assistant" title attached to a new hire.
Mike Singletary has been hired as the Panthers linebackers coach today. He too has the assistant head coach moniker. It doesn’t mean too much.
Viks... Fraz and the Staredown played together.
You don’t wanna be an NFC North running back or slot receiver next year.
by trippsixxes on Jan 18, 2011 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
Or a linebacker for the Vikings.
by Coach Owens on Jan 18, 2011 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That made me nose-laugh.
is there a word for that quick expulsion of air through the nose? It’s not a scoff, because there is no negative connotation.
How's it backwards?
Snorts are always exhalations unless the context is drug vectors.
I like nose-laugh.
Might get your fair share of weird glances mentioning it though
I think it means another 750k a year, more than anything.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 19, 2011 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
I believe the assistant Head Coach moniker prevents lateral moves
So basically, in order for Cable (or Singletary) to be wooed away by another team, it’d have to be a promotion. So Cable could leave to be an OC or HC somewhere, but not an O-line coach. Same was true for Dan Quinn.
by B.B.Finnegan on Jan 19, 2011 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
I think Cable was hired before an OC because Seattle wanted to snatch him up quickly.
I’m sure they have a few candidates in mind for the next OC, who will fit with whatever offense they decide to run.
Understood
I still gotta wonder a bit . Maybe, instead of just releasing good players that don’t “buy-in” maybe they’re thinking like," we just let Tom talk to them." The guy breaks jaws ,beats his wife, make a dam fine enforcer I would think . For the guys that listen to Pete that is.
Regis
Getting Philbin wouldn’t be bad. I think it’ll ultimately boil down to personnel though. The greatest coordinator in the world can’t make a pile of crap into a pot of gold – or some such thing.
Creativity could help though.
Scariest thing ever
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/gallery/enlargePhoto?id=6035557
Al Davis is looking pretty awful these days, which has to inspire hope in the Raiders’ fans.
Braiiiiiiiiiiiiiins. Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins.
/shuffle
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 18, 2011 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
He reminds me of the lunch scene
in Dead Alive. His ear about to fall off into some pourage. HIs pussy wounds about to burst. A great scene in the movie, not a great scene for Al Davis.
by BennyGStein on Jan 19, 2011 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Let's just hope he doesn't blow up to a hundred times his size and start eating everybody
by B.B.Finnegan on Jan 19, 2011 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
But wouldn't that be awesome?
He probably ate Tom Cables dog – well not all of it.
Pus wounds...
I don’t believe the adjective form would be pussy. Pusey, more likely.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 19, 2011 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
No...
that doesn’t sound right either. Pus filled wounds.
Pussy wounds sounds like something entirely different from pus filled wounds.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 19, 2011 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
For some reason my mind didn't even hessitate when i typed pussy...
Strange how that happens.
pussy wounds on his head would indeed be interesting though.
He looks good for a guy who died 15 years ago
I got my magnum condoms and a wad of hundreds; I'm ready to plow! - Frank
by Lo Pann on Jan 18, 2011 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Actually, I think people who have beed dead for 15 years probably look better.
You know, with embalming technology and makeup and all…
dunno ya'll
Bates out, DB coach out Cable in, Wash in….no OC…new O line coach, with good offensive rep, and bad temper…
Bates didn’t use what he had, tried to force a program that would not work with our current talent, and lack there-of…..we definitely have many pieces I would love to see back, ie big Mike, Healthy Okung, Matty with a solid O line, Milloy for leadership, and that rookie we got roamin the backfield, he’s gonna be big time good, but other than that, let the dice fall where they will, get em rebuilt, let’s see what happens, if we see anything at all this coming year…….lockout, geez….I will trade one of these dudes my job in the Infantry for crumbs compared to what they make…….spoiled bastards
Yeesh. You make some solid points here
But I guarantee nobody is going to take you seriously unless you write your thoughts while utilizing proper grammar and sentence structure. Easier to read for us, makes you look intelligent, and helps clarify what you want to say.
by MT Olson on Jan 19, 2011 6:01 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't even read the first sentance of his post before reading yours.
Now I will go back and read his.
I dunno, I understood it just fine.
Sometimes intelligence is reflected not only in how you write, but what you write.
And sometimes intelligence is reflected not only in how you write, but how you read :)
Don’t get me wrong, I love literate posts with cogent points and relevant examples. But posts with cogent points and relevant examples come a close second, while literate posts that add nothing to the conversation flail along in last place by my measure.
The Minnesota offense was terrible last year
Have never been very good despite one of best running backs in the league, Hutch, and a solid defense.
by B.B.Finnegan on Jan 19, 2011 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah - how good is the guy really?
http://www.vikings.com/team/coaches/darrell-bevell/06889ea1-697a-4fe8-abe6-956773a7b83e
A long write up on him on the Vikings site. As Josh wrote in his article, it is rather hard to figure out what a coach does though.
Oh, and one of the greatest quarterbacks to play the game and even if he had Al Davis's health would still throw for 58 TDs (37 by his jeans who would pick up the slack)
by B.B.Finnegan on Jan 19, 2011 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
Favre wasn't really in good form this past year though
If we’re talking about Minnesota’s offense being terrible last year.
The year before – Favre had one of his best statistical seasons.
The Vikings had Tavaris Jackson for four of three of those seasons
and the garbage version of Brett Favre in this latest one. Not entirely his fault.
Favre had a career year in 2009
This year the viking’s implosion had more to do with an aging team and the QB/HC situation. He’ll also be helped by Cable’s play calling experience.
Just warming to it. No excited.
It's good to read counterarguments, it's definially an instance where we don't know what we'll get
He was the OC, but did he call the plays? Minnesota’s offense has never looked terribly exciting. Perhaps there’s a genius in there somewhere.
I have a feeling though Carroll’s looking for someone who can run the ball. Not something i’m very excited about, which is why Philbin is the guy i like so far (and someone Schneider should be familiar with !!). In the end though, like what Minnesota wants and the Packers have, what we really need is a stud QB.
by B.B.Finnegan on Jan 19, 2011 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
I heard he's called plays for 4 years. Can't confirm it.
He was Hass’ and Rodgers first QB coach in GB. Definitely a QB “guru” which we need badly. I feel he’s a home run as a QB coach.
Not sure about OC.
Commitment to the run
If we plan on running all the time, wouldn’t that mean we would need a good defense? If we give up a bunch of points and all we can do is run the ball, then we’re screwed.
I’m hoping it’s a much more balanced, or still pass-driven attack – but with a solidified run game.
Or what i’m really hoping for is that we become the Green Bay Packers.
Hmm, so why did we fire Bates again?
Furthermore, Bevell has the kind of even-keeled personality to work with newly hired offensive line coach Tom Cable, who’s expected to handle much of the run game. The Seahawks’ new offensive coordinator will focus on the passing game and quarterbacks.
I thought Bates’ strength was the pass? He had some very creative looks, especially the gameplan vs the Saints. I really like where our passing offense was going. So weird!
by B.B.Finnegan on Jan 19, 2011 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Why not Zorn?
A couple of people have poo-pooed the idea of Zorn as OC…why? I am not necessarily advocating for him, just curious what about him sucks…anyone?
Zorn hasn't demonstrated that he's a good OC
and he presided over a few ho-hum offenses over the years (at DC, at BAL).
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 19, 2011 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
I get the impression his play calling has been eratic.
I’d like someone with a proven track record or an understudy in a successful system.
I don't know...
Technically he holds the record for fastest promotion of an O.C. to H.C. so he must be awesome.
Per the press conference, Bates fired on philosophical difference
Pete believes in the theory of forms and Bates was more of a Nietzsche enthusiast.
by BennyGStein on Jan 19, 2011 10:48 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
Pete
Is being very political with his words. He’s refusing to clear up why Bates was truly let go.
Sounds like they just didn’t believe the team should be run the same way. And Cable sounds like the second coming of Gibbs to Carroll.
by BennyGStein on Jan 19, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
I agree.
He’s really hitting the “Well have continuity because I’m in charge of it all”. Also that OC will need to fit his verbage and ideas.
And
“Some people help you move forward and some people make you take a step back – sometimes you need to take a couple steps back. But we’re moving forward now.”
That’s not the exact quote – but close. It’s a lot of dancing around and careful word choice.
by BennyGStein on Jan 19, 2011 11:01 AM PST up reply actions
He said the same thing at USC
and it didn’t really work out
To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.
I get the impression Pete thinks there is no way it could ever work with Bates.
Weird that he hired him.
How is this not rec'd prior to me?!?
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 19, 2011 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
Looks like Lynch is his RB
I like his answer about committing to the run. It’s not about big run numbers, it’s about how tough physical O-line play effects all aspects of your game.
I’ve heard about 10 former pros affirm this in the past day.
"I don't think there's any other way to look at it...
…Matt’s our starting QB."
Not 100% confirmation, as he is being pretty vague, but interesting I suppose.
by SeparationSunday on Jan 19, 2011 11:09 AM PST reply actions
I can't beleive I'm about to say this,
but I think we need to resign Matt.
For god sake bring in someone to compete with him, but having him can make us potential better.
Ugh, I’m going to go shower the dirty feeling off.
Matt said he didn't need to be a starter.
He just wanted the opportunity to compete for the job. Maybe that’s just political speak.
Seriously, why am I defending Matt?
That's big time political, media friendly speak.
Matt’s shown very little over the years to suggest he’d be happy at all playing the Trent Dilfer role.
Yeah I agree at this point
Not the worst thing in the world. Pete seems very intent on establishing a dominant running game, which will only help Matt.
by SeparationSunday on Jan 19, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Ha ha! Aahh yes...
Pete’s already begun to fuck with the head of our week 1 opponent. Win forever Pete.
by jubelthebear on Jan 19, 2011 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
Uncontested starter to be specific.
Win Forever rah rah and all that, but Matt isn’t going to re-up with Seattle unless he’s assured he’s not in a competition.
Carroll isn't going to promise something that he has no intention of giving though either.
That’d create a big mess, especially with someone as respected as Matt.
Its possible
but I’m not sure if its likely, let alone destined.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 19, 2011 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
The FA handling on offense has been interesting
Obo and BMW were given security yet Matt wasn’t. That has to be significant. It’s not saying they don’t want Matt back, but I wonder why Matt’s situation is being handled differently.
by jubelthebear on Jan 19, 2011 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Pete said they've already sat down with Matt
I think both sides want him back next year but they’re still working out details.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 19, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
That's total fabrication
He said that Matt would be the presumed starter but that “Charlie needed gametime experience” and that the QB position was like any other in regards to competition.
He also mentioned that you need great QB play to win championships and that they want to improve the position.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 19, 2011 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
What about what I said is at odds with that?
Pete wants Matt back provided that Matt is willing to be in a competition that allows Charlie to get gametime experience.
Matt is going to get offers from other teams where he’s guaranteed to start.
"Uncontested starter"
“Matt isn’t going to re-up with Seattle unless he’s assured he’s not in a competition.”
Its just wishful thinking on your part.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 19, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
He will be the "contested" starter
He’s going in as the starter and they’re going to have a competition. Pete said that explicitly.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 19, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Pete can't say three words without mentioning competition.
Saying that someone who is a free agent should be expected to be the starter next years is about as uncontested as it gets.
Matt's shown little over the years other than some political lip service that suggests he'd be at all happy with that role.
I don’t doubt that Carroll would love for a true QB competition, but I don’t think that’s possible if they want to retain Matt.
Might I also add that you may want to dial back on how abrasive you’re coming off?
Sorry if I came off as abrasive
but what I read wasn’t what the opposite of what I heard in the press conference.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 19, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
How can he be allowed to run a professional sports team?
by BennyGStein on Jan 19, 2011 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
No way he would have/could have given a real answer
by BennyGStein on Jan 19, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Not true
He could have revealed his master plan to have him tank at the combine and then we draft him in the 4th round.
by SeparationSunday on Jan 19, 2011 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
He could have
He could have said, “we’re drafting Blaine Gabbert with the 25th pick” too.
by BennyGStein on Jan 19, 2011 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Not even sure what it was about.
Something about Matt signing with ARZ or SF and throwing off the balance of the division. Pete’s answer wasn’t even in the microphone. He probably told Hugh to get Matt’s balls out of his mouth before asking a question.
He basically said:
“You made me stop for that question? What a dumb waste of a question.”
by BennyGStein on Jan 19, 2011 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
We are going to need some big upgrades on D
If we’re going to run all day. So maybe Cable can get us some of the worthwhile pieces of Oakland’s defense, even though that wasn’t his realm.
I really don't think it's about running all day.
It’s about having a big nasty O-Line that gives your whole team an attitude that “we’re going to beat you down”.
In fact I think this is basically what Pete said.
A big nasty o-line helps your passing game too.
Its about feeling confident about running on 3rd and 2 and 4th and short
Its about running time off the clock to beat up the opposing DL and give your defense rest. Its about forcing opposing teams to defend the run so that your passing game opens up.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 19, 2011 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
this is where it was
http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/live.html
I don’t see an archive there yet – but it’ll probably be up soon.
by BennyGStein on Jan 19, 2011 11:36 AM PST up reply actions

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