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Has Jon Ryan Improved (Did he need to?)

Red Tide is a cool nickname, but I am still on the fence of whether Ryan is good for the Seahawks or not.

Sometime back, in a postgame post, can't remember which, I apologized for criticizing Jon Ryan. The Seahawks punter was a on a hot streak. Think it was after the Seahawks beat the Bears. Good times. I am always at my most optimistic, forgiving and homer-ish after a big win. Well it's the offseason now, and we can look back at the season with some kind of clarity.

Seattle's special teams were a critical component of Seattle making the playoffs. The Seahawks had the second best kick return unit in the NFL, the fifth best kickoff unit and an above average punt return unit. Thank you very much, Leon Washington. Thank you double, Brian Schneider. But Seattle was again below average at defending punts. Seattle finished at -0.3 in 2010 after finishing -0.8 in 2009.

Excluding Josh Bidwell, who only had 15 punts, Ryan finished 19 in the NFL in net average distance of punt. He had a substantial decrease in average and net average, without a substantial increase in rate of punts downed inside the opponent's 20. Ryan only punted one touchback all year, which is good for a punter, very good, but without knowing the context, hard to qualify. Maybe Ryan was punting from field positions that do not regularly lead to touchbacks. He hasn't displayed the skill in any other season. Maybe he's developed. Maybe not.

The truth is, I don't know if Ryan is a good punter or not. He's had some stinkers. He's had some beauties. Evaluating a punter is very hard and imprecise. Maybe with better information, like hang time, we could do a better job.

So, I'll just throw it out to you: Should Seattle explore upgrading itself at punter? Is Ryan a good punter? How can we know? And if the rest of Seattle's special teams play improved (excluding field goals and extra point attempts), why do you think punt coverage lagged behind? Punt coverage is how Brian Schneider made his name.

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Had to be Ryan, had to be.

Problem is who is a really good punter who’s also a free-agent? Or do you waste a draft pick on a punter? The only probably potential replacement would be to sign an UDFA punter and carry both the rookie and Ryan until they cut down rosters.

by Coach Owens on Jan 26, 2011 4:06 PM PST reply actions  

Alex Henery out of Nebraska

was pretty stellar. He’s also their PK and was honored as first team all big 12 for both positions this year in his senior season.

by lackskill on Jan 26, 2011 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I would LOVE a guy who can do both punt and kick.

My keeper fantasy league has punters and kickers both, so a guy that can pull stats from both positions would be a HUGE asset. I might even grab him in the first round. Gotta keep my eyes on this kid!

"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw

by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 26, 2011 9:01 PM PST up reply actions  

But wouldn't you need two of them?

I would have nightmares about someone running into the punter, and then who kicks field goals? Interesting, nevertheless.

by IslandHawk on Jan 26, 2011 9:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, conceivably.

But you could also get creative and make sure you have a couple other guys on the team who can kick/punt semi-adequately.

Or you could simply play 4 down football no matter what and skip punting altogether…

"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw

by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 26, 2011 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Given all the issues the team has at so many positions, I just don't see any wisdom in spending any time whatsoever on this position.

Maybe bring in a UFA in training camp to challenge him/protect against freak kicker injury the same way they’ll probably do with Olindo Mare, but beyond that? Nah, I’m just not seeing it.

by Johnny Slick on Jan 26, 2011 4:09 PM PST reply actions  

Somebody, probably Brian Schneider, certainly has the time to look at punter options.

If Ryan is a problem then they should definitely at least look at punters hitting free agency.

by Nate Dogg on Jan 26, 2011 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

It's not so much time...

…as it is other resources, like cap money (I know punters don’t cost much but that can add up) plus the fact that nobody that’s any good is going to want to go into training camp competing directly against Ryan. That means that Seattle would really need to be sure that the guy they get in free agency is absolutely a better overall fit than Ryan.

It’s not that he’s anything great right now, but he’s not actively making the team lose games at the moment and the same cannot be said for several other positions on this team.

by Johnny Slick on Jan 26, 2011 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Getting a new punter in no way prevents upgrading at other positions as well.

And seeing as there is no cap and there may not be a cap with the new CBA, thats not really a concern. Even if there is a salary cap theres going to be a portion of that dedicated to a punter, whether it’s Ryan or someone else.

by Nate Dogg on Jan 26, 2011 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

To quote, don't fix it if it ain't broke.

To improve our ST, we should be looking at more of the players with the other positions, like FG blocking or Punt coverage, etc.

I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus

by EequalsMc2 on Jan 26, 2011 4:21 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe the best improvement in our punt coverage.

Would be to spend more time on offense so we do not have to punt 10 times a game.

by eohawkfan on Jan 26, 2011 4:26 PM PST reply actions  

We need to find a replacement

probably in the first 2 rounds of the draft

by farmer cam on Jan 26, 2011 5:16 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I don't see why you wouldn't carry 2 kickers and punters in every training camp.

And the #2 guy should always be the best possible guy you can get to push the #1 guy for his job.

by Mind of no mind on Jan 26, 2011 5:20 PM PST reply actions  

Exactly

Then cut the backup, he probably won’t sign anywhere else, then bring him back if there is an injury or something

by Flamefox111 on Jan 26, 2011 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

You don't really need to train up kickers/punters for the job

You can sign one off the street from the permanent available pool of FAs regardless.

by Thomas Beekers on Jan 26, 2011 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought Ryan was pretty good this year.

I guess its a good thing I’m not a coach or a GM.

by grips on Jan 26, 2011 5:27 PM PST reply actions  

I guess you should always be keeping an eye out for talent that could upgrade any position, but I wouldn't think that upgrading Ryan is much of a priority.

My untrained eye thought he did a pretty good job this year, but if the FO sees something that they’re confident will be an upgrade, go for it.

by eeezzbok on Jan 26, 2011 6:25 PM PST reply actions  

Somebody set my head straight on this.

I don’t think touchbacks are all that bad for punters. Sure, having it downed inside the 20 is better. But how much of a difference does it make if the opponent starts at, say, the 15 instead of the 20? Punters are told that punts downed inside the 20 are good and touchbacks are bad, so they frequently aim for about the 15. It’s much more valuable to pin a team very deep — inside the 5, say. Punters don’t aim for the 5 often enough, though, because they’re afraid of the dreaded touchback. Counting touchbacks and inside-the-20 punts reinforces this. I say, aim to pin them really deep, and if you overshoot, there are worse things in life than a touchback.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

by Suburban Shocker on Jan 26, 2011 6:38 PM PST reply actions  

Makes sense,

 but that might be over simplifying it.

"I've seen prison breaks with more organization and cooperation than this"

by Thingray on Jan 26, 2011 8:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

The opponent starting at the 2 instead of the 20 is way, way better, and something that a good punter can regularly coordinate with well-trained special teams.

In theory, assuming 25 yards of field position is worth 2 points, the difference between pinning your opponent to the 5 and starting him at the 20 is 1.2 points. That may not sound like a lot but that’s pretty damn good for a special teams play. Even starting at the 15 instead of the 20 is worth 0.4; you do that 20 times a season and that’s basically giving your team an extra touchdown. It may not sound like a lot but it can add up.

by Johnny Slick on Jan 26, 2011 8:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Also, I think you are over-estimating the frequency of kicks to the 15 as opposed to the 5.

They’re not trying for the 15. They’re trying for the 5 and end up at the 15.

Of course, I’m also of a mind that you play 4 down football from your own 35 onward to field goal territory, so I would rarely punt where you have to use more touch than brute force.

"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw

by Tyler Jorgensen on Jan 26, 2011 9:04 PM PST up reply actions  

This isn't why

they call it " special " teams just so everyone knows.

by alexander_37 on Jan 26, 2011 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I can only remember one screw-up from 2010

That being the time he punted to Hester who subsequently took it to the house. Other than that I thought he played at an acceptable level. Like someone else said, he’s not actively losing games for the Seahawks. I feel like another year under Schneider will give the rest of our punt coverage team the ability to cover Ryan’s kicks a lot better.

by Jackrabbit5683 on Jan 26, 2011 7:58 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe that wasn't his choice.

Coach says kick, you kick away ..

"I've seen prison breaks with more organization and cooperation than this"

by Thingray on Jan 26, 2011 8:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

No.

We have other concerns. Ryan is fine.

"I've seen prison breaks with more organization and cooperation than this"

by Thingray on Jan 26, 2011 7:59 PM PST via mobile reply actions   2 recs

This is a surprisingly adequate answer

Even if you want to debate Ryan is good, he’s certainly good enough.

No reason not to bring in UFA PKs/punters anyway. I mean, why the heck not.

by Thomas Beekers on Jan 26, 2011 10:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree. But does he have a soul?

What Ryan really needs to improve on is his facial hair. Perhaps a Fu Manchu??

Efren Herrera is my spirit animal

by BeaverBird on Jan 27, 2011 1:38 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I just think it would be nuts to think about replacing him..

he ranks 19th in net average, which is middle of the pack. And he certainly passed the eye ball test this past season.

by coug111 on Jan 27, 2011 8:19 AM PST reply actions  

Could lack of continuity on ST be the issue?

I have no idea if this is true or not, but with all the roster moves that PC et al. made, perhaps a lot of those marginal roster add-ons ended up on ST. Maybe our punt coverage unit was a revolving door of different players, and maybe lack of cohesion on that unit led to less than spectacular punt coverage. Just a theory. This would imply it has less to do with Ryan and more to do with the other 10 guys on the field.

I would presume that other teams also have marginal players show up on ST units, so this isn’t Seahawk-specific, but maybe in our case it was excessive this year.

I also think PC should award a bonus to the guy whose job it was to sew players’ names on the jerseys. He was kept pretty busy this year.

by sideshow bob on Jan 27, 2011 8:54 AM PST reply actions  

Lewis and Obomanu

Two hella good special teamers/gunners. Losing one to the IR and the other to an elevated WR role may have made a bit of difference.

by Dizzy Saturn on Jan 27, 2011 6:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Ryan

I think he did an exceptional job this year. I watched every game, and believe me some of those punts to only have 1 touchback this year???? Very nice! I think his sister’s the number four… oh nevermind :-P

by David Robinson on Jan 27, 2011 2:22 PM PST reply actions  

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