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Seahawks Statistically Unimproved in First Five Games of 2011

Oh yeah, this guy threw 19 passes too.

Perception is a funny thing.  It can mess with you and make you believe in your heart of hearts that something which is not true, is so entirely true.  The first problem possibly being that you have multiple hearts and that those hearts have their own beating lifeforce within them.

I perceived that Howard the Duck was a good movie when I was five.

I perceived that Pauly Shore was funny when I was twelve. 

I perceived that I could get drafted into the military when I was sixteen when they make you register.

But as we get older, we realize that these thoughts were quite silly and that you're always dumber than you were yesterday.

Through five games of the 2011 season, I perceived that the Seahawks had markedly improved from anything that they did last year.  Despite the fact that we were 3-2 after five games in 2010, and 2-3 this season, it still seems pretty obvious to me that we are better.

Russell Okung missed the first three games of last season, and was limited when he returned.  Marshawn Lynch had only made his Seahawks debut in game five against Chicago.  We didn't have James Carpenter, John Moffitt, Sidney Rice, Doug Baldwin, Zach Miller or KJ Wright last season.  Earl Thomas was just a rookie and Kam Chancellor didn't start a single game.

This year the players were starting to gel, becoming more experienced, getting better, and they have been healthier.  We've got a new offensive coordinator, who couldn't possibly be worse than Jeremy Bates, and Pete Carroll and his staff are now in year two of a rebuilding process that is surely going to take the Seahawks back to the Super Bowl.

I believe in the coach, the philosophy, and John Schneider.  I like the moves we've made and I like the fact that we've managed to stay relatively healthy.  Last season sucked, and we were one of the worst teams in the league.  The offense was terrible, it was hard to watch, and the division opened a door for us that should not have been open.  This season I've been full of hope, and while I didn't think we'd make the playoffs, I at least have been under the impression that we are better.  Both on paper and statistically.

Well, you can definitely make the argument that we are better on paper and that the roster has improved, but five games into the season how much different are they statistically than the first five games of 2010? 

Here are the numbers:

2010 2011
Points For 19.6 18.8
Total Offense 292.4 288
Passing Offense 226.6 205
Rushing Offense 85.8 83
Turnovers 9 9
Points Against 19.4 24.4
Total Defense 361.2 366
Passing Defense 290.8 268.2
Rushing Defense 70.4 97.8
Turnovers Forced 8 7

Star-divide

 

The first question that I would ask myself is "How do the levels of competition compare?" because it wouldn't be fair to compare results without comparing who the results came against.  If you play five terrible teams one season and five great teams the next, then of course the results are going to be lobsided.

The five opponents these results came from in 2010 are: San Francisco, Denver, @ San Diego, @ St Louis, @ Chicago. 

Last season the Niners lost their first five games and the Seahawks blew them out 31-6, though the 49ers actually outgained them 263-242 and both teams had 14 first downs.

The Seahawks lost to the Broncos, a team that ended up 4-12, 31-14 and were outgained 369-339.

Seattle then beat San Diego 27-20 and again were outgained on yardage by a whopping 518-271, but Leon Washington won the game with two kickoff returns for touchdowns.  The Chargers ended up 9-7, but finished first in the NFL in total offense and total defense.

Then the Seahawks lost to St Louis 20-3 and were outgained 349-257.  The Rams finished 26th in total offense and 19th in total defense. 

Finally, the team went to Chicago after a bye week and won 23-20 and for the first time all year outgained an opponents yardage total: 353-307. The Bears were amongst the worst in the NFL in offense, but were 9th in total defense and 4th in scoring defense and finished 11-5. 

You could say that last year the competition was stiff against San Diego and Chicago, and yet ironically we won both of those games.  The Seahawks special teams and run defense really carried the load on the way to a 3-2 record. 

Eventually injuries along the offensive and defensive line crippled the team on both sides of the ball and the mirage of a 4-2 start was exposed by a 3-7 finish.  We all knew that the Seahawks were bad, despite the fact that Seattle won the division and was headed to the playoffs.  We weren't fools and outsiders that made fun of us for making the playoffs at 7-9 didn't seem to realize that we were in on the joke.

The biggest single roster difference between 2010 and 2011 would of course be any change at the quarterback position.  Matt Hasselbecks final year in Seattle versus Tarvaris Jacksons first.  Though in the grand scheme of things, comparing the two to a Seattleite would be like comparing Jimi Hendrix's guitar to Tiny Tim's ukulele.  But in this stage of their careers, how much of a difference were we really expecting between an aging Hasselbeck in the twilight of his career, and a younger, albeit less-talented, Jackson?

Not a huge difference as it turns out.

Last year Hasselbeck completed 61.4% of his throws for 1056 yards, 5 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, 6.36 yards per attempt, and a 74.8 passer rating through five games.

This season Tarvaris is completing 63.1% of his throws for 1,012 yards, 6 touchdowns, 5 interceptions, 6.4 yards per attempt, and a passer rating of 81.

Again, the perception should turn out to be true that the Seahawks are at least as good as 2010 if they haven't lost (and even gained a little bit) at the quarterback position, while our offensive line is healthier, are wide receiver corps are significantly more talented, and our defensive line is healthy.

How is it possible that of all the areas we have improved at, it's passing defense that's been better? 

Is it that teams are passing on us fewer times because they find it easier to run on the defense?  This year teams have attempted 171 pass attempts against the Hawks, compared to 213 pass attempts against in 2010.  Keep in mind that total passing defense includes a subtraction of yardage lost from sack totals.  In 2010 the Seahawks had 17 sacks for 112 yards lost.  If you ignored sacks, then the passing defense allowed 313.2 yards per game last year.

This season, the Seahawks are amongst the worst in the league at getting to the quarterback and have 8 sacks for 59 yards lost.  So just their raw passing defense numbers would be 280 yards per game. 

They are allowing less yards in the air, but on far fewer attempts.  The team is allowing 7.8 yards per pass attempt, good for 25th in the NFL, and 8.2 yards per pass attempt when not including sacks.

The funniest number of all from this year is our rushing defense, the unit of our team that I have the most confidence in.  Last season when the Seahawks defensive line was healthy, they weren't afraid of any opposing backs.  Seattle shut down Frank Gore, Knowshon Moreno, Mike Tolbert, Steven Jackson, and Matt Forte.  They held Forte to a season-low 11 yards on 8 carries. 

Injuries to Red Bryant and Brandon Mebane helped create a total collapse of the unit, however.

But those players are back and we've added Alan Branch, who has played very well.  There hasn't been a significant injury on that side of the trench, so why are we allowing more yards per game?  That's the really interesting part about this season. 

The Seahawks still rank amongst the leaders in the NFL in rushing yards allowed, but not quite as dominating as it looked through five games last season.   Are they playing worse?  Not really.  The Seahawks are seeing the fourth most carries per game against in the league, but lead the NFL in yards per carry allowed at 3.1.

Gore rushed 22 times for 59 yards.  Rashard Mendenhall ran 19 times for 66.  Alfonso Smith ran 17 times for 54.  Michael Turner had 26 for 70.  Ahmad Bradshaw carried it 17 times and only got 58 yards. 

The Seahawks run defense is just as good, if not better, than it was through five games last season.  For whatever reason, teams like to test us, and even more puzzling is that Arizona gave the ball to Alfonso Smith 17 times when they were without Beanie Wells

2854289_1_medium 

I would have understood if it was Alfonso Ribeiro

When you look at the defense as a whole, and don't do any digging, it would appear that our pass defense has improved while our run defense has taken a step back.  Look deeper and you'll see that its the opposite.  Look again and you'll see that the pass defense was actually pretty solid statistically until Eli Manning threw for 395 yards against the Hawks. 

Before New York, the Seahawks hadn't allowed a team to go over 300 yards of total passing offense.  Of course, some of those yards against the Giants (specifically 68 of them to Victor Cruz) were purely a product of luck.  Not that we can't account for times when the Seahawks should have given up yards on passes that were dropped by opposing wide receivers.

Somewhere it all evens out.

Then there's the whole aspect of special teams. 

Last season the Seahawks won a game against the Chargers because of two return touchdowns.  This season the Seahawks were on the opposite end, losing a game in great part because of two return touchdowns from Ted Ginn, Jr. 

The Hawks made the playoffs last year in great part because of their special teams units.  Coaches always talk about the importance of special teams, and our first thought is always "Yeah whatever man.  You and I know both you're just doing coach speak right now because you have to.  Just shut the hell up man.  I'm hungry."  Those are your thoughts too, right?

But I guess it might really be important.

The NFL moved kickoffs up this year and everybody complained about how that would make the game less exciting because we'd have too many touchbacks, but the Hawks like to give the people what they want.  They have nine touchbacks in five games and allowing an average of 32.3 yards per return, third worst in the NFL.

On kick returns, the Seahawks have run 16 kicks back for an average of 21.7 yards per return.  Basically, the team is losing the field position battle this year.  For an offense as weak as this one has been, those are the little things that will keep Seattle in a playoff race.

In Conclusion

Now I feel like I'm writing a paper for school, but what does it all mean?

I felt that the team had improved but when I looked at the numbers through five games I came away disappointed.  It didn't make a lot of sense to me that we weren't better than we were last year because we were healthier, signed key free agents, and in year two under Pete Carroll. 

Of course, Robert Gallery hasn't played, and I'm pretty sure Zach Miller hasn't played either.  Sidney Rice missed the first two games of the year, and Aaron Curry was disappointing for the third and final time.  Carpenter and Moffitt are understandably still getting used to the NFL, and had a short training camp.  There are reasons to see why it's still too early to judge Carroll and Schneider this season for the roster moves they made this year.

The team has scored fewer and given up more points, but then consider how special teams played a part.  If you subtract two touchdowns this season because of Ted Ginn and add two from Leon Washington (as if this were an alternate universe where our special teams numbers hadn't changed from year to year) then the team is scoring 21.6 ppg and allowing 21.6.  Offensively and defensively, the year to year change isn't much different. 

Still, you can't help but be a little disappointed in lack of improvement, even if the team is mostly the same.  You have to weigh results versus cost in order to obtain value and I'd argue that this team is still less valuable than it was to start last season.

Will Marshawn Lynch ever fully get it?  Will Robert Gallery play the last 11 games?  Will the rookies and sophomores on the offensive line get better and remain healthy?  Will Rice stay healthy?  Who will step up in the secondary in the absence of Marcus Trufant

It's scary to entertain the notion that our worst passing defense of the season came without Trufant, and now we know we will be without him for the last eleven.

The team has to answer all of these questions and also identify who they are this season.  What was once a terrible division last year now appears to have a real team in the form of the 49ers.  San Francisco is now 7th in the NFL in scoring offense, 2nd in the NFL in scoring defense, 3rd in the NFL in turnover differential, and they're absolutely dominating in the run game on both offense and defense.  The Niners are a Tony Romo comeback from being 6-0 and are already 3-0 on the road.

The gap between San Francisco and the rest of the NFC West appears to be huge, and I would argue that the gap between Seattle and Arizona/St. Louis is also significant.  Are the Seahawks going to be able to make a playoff run as a 10-6 wild card team?

As the season continues to shake out and we know our opponents better, we have to find eight beatable teams.  Cleveland, Cincinnati, St Louis twice, Washington, Arizona make six.  That means Philly at home and San Francisco at home would need to bridge the gap, or Chicago on the road as we did last year.  But that doesn't change the fact that we wouldn't need to just get lucky, we'd have to be better. 

So far, we haven't been.  We've been just the same. 

And honestly, I still think In the Army Now and Jury Duty are good movies.

Follow me on twitter @casetines

Poll
Five games into the season, how are you feeling about this teams year to year improvements?
They are much better
60 votes
I can see improvements in motion, waiting for results
259 votes
Absolutely stagnant. The same.
11 votes
This team is clearly worse than last season
8 votes

338 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 66 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I don't agree on the titles you mentioned.

But I will always love Son in Law and Encino Man.

by djafrot on Oct 19, 2011 12:05 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I think it's all there to improve, but still waiting for it to shine

We still made so many moves, shed a ton of weight and brought in even younger guys….even still, the overall talent level has risen, and the potential as well. We just haven’t used all that talent or seen all the potential due to the bodies in place mostly being new together and young all around.

The philosophy and direction is solid, and I believe in it…. I think it’s in good hands and we will start making a legitimate push after another season or so, now that the foundation is mostly built.

by DSAhawker on Oct 19, 2011 12:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Playoff run?

We’re not going to the playoffs. This division belongs to the 49ers, let’s not kid ourselves here.

Also, :shrug: traditional stats. Our offseason wasn’t dedicated to making a better team in 2011 anyway, so eh.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Oct 19, 2011 12:09 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah you're probably right

with the Saints/Bucs and Lions/Pack dominance of their relative schedules. I could see the Bucs falling off, which would give us a shot at a wild card, but not holding my breath. Just hoping for no more 41-7 games, even if that means 6-10/7-9 again.

by Stay Off the Flowers on Oct 19, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

This offseason wasn't about 2011?

Jackson, Rice, Gallery, and Miller are all veterans that were intended to contribute immediately, especially considering they ALL came at least halfway from systems now used by the Seahawks’ current coaching staff.

I’m not arguing that this team is ignoring the future, but it certainly appears like they’re at least trying to win on the meantime.

by djafrot on Oct 19, 2011 12:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Gallery is the only one old enough to not be a significant factor in years to come

Youth was very much the deciding factor in most major personnel decisions.

And no team that wants to win now signs Tarvaris Jackson.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Oct 19, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let me put it this way

I’m not advocating any ridiculous “tanking intentionally” talk, I’m saying our moves were optimized to keep in mind first how it would impact our long-term rebuilding plan, and only secondarily if it would help us win games now. People tend to think of this as dichotomous, as if you either rebuild or win now. That’s not true, most moves made to rebuild can help win games and vice versa, it’s just a matter of priority. Can’t look into PC’s head, but it seems fairly obvious where our priorities lie.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Oct 19, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

And Gallery IS only 31.

Saying he isn’t a part of a long term plan when most solid OL play to 34/35 is a tad “Maddenesque” with how video game team building has permeated the sports fan’s world.

You can’t plan for the long term in this league beyond 3 years. He’s in a perfectly acceptable range of age to be healthy enough to be a part of the long term plan… until he’s replaced or slid to a depth role down the road.

"How much blow can Charlie Sheen do? Enough to kill two and a half men." -Jon Lovitz

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 19, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gallery's not very good thought

Most OLers that last well into their 30s are really good OLers, or at least solid and dependable. Gallery is a lot of things but he’s not solid and dependable, and that argues against him being a long-term prospect.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Oct 19, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I also can't pretend to know what Pete Carroll is thinking, but my belief is that he wants to build a team that improves on a 7-9 record.

Even if that’s 8-8 or 9-7. A goal that preseason would have looked like it was good enough to win the division. I don’t think anyone in the organization wants to win 3 or 4 games. This team looks to me like it was built to compete (NFC West “compete”) in 2011 and hopefully be 12-or-13-wins-kind-of-good down the line.

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 19, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

So why sign him at all?

Why not just run with Charlie and/or a developmental guy? My only explanation is that he’s kind of a “practice squad” guy standing in for whomever is actually the long-term solution. That way when the new guy comes in the offense doesn’t have to readjust as much.

by djafrot on Oct 19, 2011 2:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Sorry to disappoint you in giving traditional stats.

I didn’t say we were going to the playoffs though. I said if this team even wanted to think about going to the playoffs, they would need to find eight more games to win, and that looks like a very tall order right now.

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 19, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep. San Fran has a legit shot at a first round bye

Just 1 divisional game so it’s possible they go with 13-3 or 12-4. Subtract two games if Alex Smith is Alex Smith again.

I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.

by SSreporters on Oct 19, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is Gallery coming back a good thing?

McQuistan has looked better to me in the games he has played than Gallery did before he went out. If i’m paying attention to the line its usually Moffit or Carpenter though.

by TS6 on Oct 19, 2011 12:16 PM PDT reply actions  

not sure it is

especially after being out for awhile. Perhaps Gallery was hampered somewhat be the injury previously.

by moxr on Oct 19, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gallery had a lingering injury that led to another injury

If he gets healthy, there’s a good chance he could perform at a lot higher level than he did in the preseason.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 19, 2011 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Brian Burke makes a good point in the comments section of the recent ANFLS power rankings:
[P]eople abuse the language when talking about stats all the time, myself included. Instead saying “SF is averaging 4.5 YPC,” we should be saying “SF has averaged 4.5 YPC.” There’s a difference…

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/10/team-rankings-week-7.html#comments

Last year our defense started strong and then struggled after injuries to the DL mounted. This year our offense started horribly but has begun to open up. The direction of the change is very important (if it is sustainable). I don’t have any illusions that we’ll be a world-beater any time soon, but I am glad that we’re producing at a similar level using much younger talent that may still have significant room to improve.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 19, 2011 12:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Also, the Niners were only ranked 18th in that last power ranking

and Burke said that they won in a fashion that wasn’t repeatable (though we were ranked 32nd).

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 19, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good points. The direction of the change is important.

Especially because there’s been so much change even through the 5 games we’ve played this year.

My conjecture, by my eye, is that we started this year worse than last year’s team, but have improved to look better than most of last year’s team, due to the improved blocking. I don’t know if that improvement will be consistent for the next month, but the near past performance was pretty encouraging.

Head of catering.

by jacobstevens on Oct 19, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't "get it" either:

“Will Marshawn Lynch ever fully get it?” — are you suggesting that his stats not shining are a comprehension issue?!?

I am just not seeing the reasoning for this. Is it a throwaway statement? Where did it come from? Packed in with reasonable questions like, " Will Robert Gallery play the last 11 games? Will the rookies and sophomores on the offensive line get better and remain healthy? Will Rice stay healthy? Who will step up in the secondary in the absence of Marcus Trufant?" make it sound like there is an issue with him “getting it” that’s been significant and it is an obvious one, as all the other questions are legitimate.

I don’t know. I wonder far more if Tavaris will “get it” and the O Line will “get it” and the young WR depth will “get it” and the new LB core will “get it” and the new CB tandem will “get it.” Marshawn seems like he is what he is…

"How much blow can Charlie Sheen do? Enough to kill two and a half men." -Jon Lovitz

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 19, 2011 12:24 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Marshawn,

here’s ball. Run for your life.

What’s to get?

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Oct 19, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

My point exactly.

He’s a solid blocker for a lead back, has okay hands. Maybe not great as a receiver but not a liability. He seems to run hard always.

I hate to say it, but “Will Marshawn Lynch ever fully get it?” almost sounds like… well… like for whatever reason, that one doesn’t think he’s intelligent enough to “get it.”

"How much blow can Charlie Sheen do? Enough to kill two and a half men." -Jon Lovitz

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 19, 2011 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's going too far to say that I'm calling Marshawn Lynch stupid for not living up to his potential.

But I admit that my phrasing of the words perhaps implied as such, to some.

My only intention is to say that I believe Lynch could be better than he has been and that the blame for his lack of production thus far is still his responsibility. The game against the Giants would be a step in the right direction.

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 19, 2011 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Numbers and stats don't do him justice.

He’s had some of the most impressive runs for negative 2 yards as I’ve ever seen.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Oct 19, 2011 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree, Hazbro.

I don’t think “the blame for his lack of production thus far” is anything but a crummy run blocking team over the past 5 years continuing that trend. And to say, “the game against the Giants would be a step in the right direction” is ironic. You put the onus on Lynch to improve (while accidentally implying it could be an intelligence thing), meanwhile present the game where the offensive line looked the best as proof that Lynch (and not particularly the offensive line) might be “getting it.”

Despite that fact that he has more NFL starts than the entire line combined.

I just don’t see the onus on him, and have always looked at him as a back who runs extremely hard, fighting for every yard.

He’s a solid back, but you can’t expect him to “get it” and suddenly go “beast mode” every game, and to expect there’s another level of “get it” that he is capable of is to expect all athletes to master things at a level exclusive the to the very best. I.E., Michael Jordan “got it” and Tiger Woods “got it” — but that’s why their names are iconic. But it isn’t like Lynch was Adrian Peterson coming out of college where people were like, “this is the best running back of the past 15 years to turn pro” or anything.

I apologize if this sounds like an attack, but I hate people putting their expectations for an athlete based on a far outside perspective into the realm of “reasonable expectation.”

Anytime a person watching questions an athletes heart, courage or intelligence, I cringe like hearing fingers on a chalkboard. Perhaps because I’ve been the guy out on the floor and heard the commentary and expectations of others— meanwhile nobody, and I mean NOBODY, had higher expectations for me than I did myself. But if I had someone question my heart or intelligence or courage, I do believe I would be a tad irritated.

And again, every other question you listed seemed a completely reasonable base question due to current events with the team. But your Lynch question was far far more subjective and I’m not sure there is a consensus who would agree with you on the point.

"How much blow can Charlie Sheen do? Enough to kill two and a half men." -Jon Lovitz

by Tyler Jorgensen on Oct 19, 2011 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Peterson is getting hit in the backfield a lot this year.

It’s not working out for him very well. Anytime a running play gets blown up like that the D line and line backers don’t have much ground to cover to shut it down.

Running backs only look good when they have a hole and then get to take on a safety or linebacker in space. That’s what happened vs. the Giants, that’s when beast mode can activate.

Any back that get gets hit 3 or 4 yards in the backfield and drags 3 guys back to the LOS is a fucking stud. And that’s what we got.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Oct 19, 2011 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think the first five games of last year and this year should be compared

Although there were many transactions last year, the offense largely remained intact (at least for the first five games).

This year there was a complete changeover of the offensive line, QB, TE, and #1 WR. Everyone on the planet expected it to take time for the unit to come together.

I think the fact that the two teams are currently statistically comparable actually means the current offense will be much better than last year’s.

I think the defensive drop off is nearly all attributable to lack of QB pressure.

by moxr on Oct 19, 2011 12:33 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Stats aside, my perception is that the Hawks are improved as of

the last two and a half games. That they are better than last year with an even higher upside pending. One of the problems with stats, of course, is that they are compliled against different teams, on different days, with different handicaps that don’t readily compute to an neat equation of who’s best. So: Enter individual perception.

I don’t think the division belongs to the 49ers. They’re way out in front, but there’s ten games left and we have that game with the Niners here.

Meanwhile, Charlie Crunches Cleveland, we hope.

  

by broadbill birdwatcher on Oct 19, 2011 12:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Also

I really believe a wild card isn’t out of the picture either.

If, as our perception has been telling us, this team is better this year, then you can expect us right in the thick of things with the wild card in December.

by Zak Venturo on Oct 19, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Would be funny if the Giants get in at 7-9

And we stay home @ 9 and 7.

Anything more than 9 wins is inconceivable to my puny brain.

by goatweed on Oct 19, 2011 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

you're forgetting one thing

we were pretty damn good in the opening 6 games last year. It was the 10 after it that really sucked.
i’d say we have much better depth and a younger roster that can cope much both in dealing with injuries and players coming in to replace them.
and whereas last year we won a game thanks to two moments of special team magic, this year we lost a game due to two moments of special team suckery
the atlanta result was similar to the denver result in that we should have won both games and the Rams game was similar to the Steelers game in that we got blown out.
But at least this year we got blown out at Heinz Field and not against the sucky Rams, there’s a lot less shame in that.

All in all, last year we started well and slowly got worse.
This year we started poorly and are slowly getting better, and both years have started the same.
The scary thing is, at the start of the season there were several games I thought were certain losses, in the remaining 11 games I can’t see a single game I don’t think the Hawks can win, Soldier Field in mid-December isn’t exactly an easy place to go, and depending on which Romo turns up, the Cowboys game can go either way.
Apart from that, the other 3 away games are against 3 of the worst teams in the entire league, and with the 12th man backing the team you can never rule out victory at home.
13-3? I doubt it, but 10-6 is well within reaching distance

by Three Dog on Oct 19, 2011 12:40 PM PDT reply actions  

You're always going to have some variation from the mean

and injuries typically become an issue later in the season, but that doesn’t mean that teams (or players) can’t improve or decline over the course of a season.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 19, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually I mentioned several of those things.

I think it’s going a little far to say we were “pretty damn good in the first 6 games” just because we were 4-2. That’s a middle of the road offense and defense and we played some poor teams.

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 19, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course, if you're looking at unadorned stats, strength of schedule isn't accounted for.

The reality of 2010 that the Hawks played some weak teams to start the year… by Week 6 they’d already played all 3 of their crappy NFC West opponents one time each. The D in particular was still pretty damn awesome at that point – Week 6 was the first tme they’d allowed more than 100 rushing yards in a game (it was Week 7 when they let the Rrrrraidas run rrrrampant on them). The rushing offense actually wasn’t anemic at that point either – 3 100 yard games in there and the really, really awful games with running the football didn’t start until Week 7. Hasselbeck was workmanlike if not really great – he threw 3 picks in the Denver game but like everyone else wasn’t really brutally awful until the next week.

Small sample size, of course, but the fact that the Seahawks compare favorably to last year’s team, a team that was looking okay against second-level opposition, is pretty encouraging to me, actually.

"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)

by Johnny Slick on Oct 19, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I tried to account for each one of those games and the strength of the opponent within the article.

The truth is, and I know this, you can’t compare San Francisco week 1 to San Francisco week 8 or San Francisco week 17. Like I was saying, the Niners started out 0-5. They were bad to start the year and we beat them up.

We played weaker opponents to start the year, but “ironically beat the harder opponents” like Chicago and San Diego, but the SD win came on the shoulders of Leon Washington.

The only reason I am comparing “First 5 games of 2010” to “First 5 games of 2011” is basically how our perception of the team is year over year. We are going to feel differently about a team, and how they position themselves in the overall 32 team standings (whether you’re concerned with playoffs or draft position), as the year goes on. How did we feel about them and how did they play at this point in 2010 compared to how we feel and how they are playing in 2011.

They are so far playing comparable, though the schedule has been relatively more difficult. San Francisco, New York, and Pittsburgh are currently “playoff teams” and some people like Atlanta, so yes, the schedule has been harder. The fact that we are putting up similar numbers should be encouraging. I’m only doing my best to present the data to everyone, analyze it, and let everybody come to their own conclusions.

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 19, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I had lower expectations (wins/losses) wise

I think that has also contributed to my positive attitude towards the team. I personally only pay attention to the last 3 games as a sign of improvement/decline.

Your analysis is interesting but there are so many variables involved. They make for a good conversation but it’s tough to draw any conclusion other than: “wow, they are pretty similar”

by goatweed on Oct 19, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm ecstatic we're 2-3 at this point

especially with a win over the Giants in New York.

It’s been said already but our first two games were bloody awful and since then we haven’t been bad at all. Our young guys are clicking a lot faster than I even hoped they would. This team is headed in the right direction, and quickly.

by bobbyj0708 on Oct 19, 2011 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good Analytical Read...

Nothing surprising here though, and I’m not sure anyone expected a statistical improvement this season, especially early on. The key is improvement and increase in consistency, which it appears we’re on the way to seeing more of. A team this young, and with this much turnover, should focus solely on improving fundamentally.

by Derek Stephens on Oct 19, 2011 12:50 PM PDT reply actions  

It's just one of those things where I felt like in year two of the change-over under Pete, I saw a lot more players on the field that I liked.

When I looked at the numbers, I was just a little surprised, but I think a lot of that comes from the fact that we are just coming off of that win in New York.

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 19, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

The offense hasn't done much of anything until the last 6 quarters

But those first 14, egads. Yes, i used egads.

So I think the recent memory (and current optimism we have) kind of skews just how awful this team was early in the year. And that explains why, so far, the numbers are so bad. Hopefully they get better rather then worse. And while the offense has been improving, seems like the defense is about the same.

by B.B.Finnegan on Oct 19, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it just goes back to perception, which I think in the NFL, of all places, is just so damn extreme.

“Tony Romo, Hall of Fame!”
“Tony Romo, kill that guy!”
“Tony Romo, Super Bowl baby!”
“Tony Romo, what a bitch!”
“Tony Romo, he did it again!” (this could go either way)

follow @casetines

by Kenneth Arthur on Oct 19, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Tony Romo . . . Tony Romo."

"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan

"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"

by Clendy on Oct 19, 2011 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's kind of like looking at a car that's in the middle of a ground up resto.

There’s going to be things that don’t look good until the project is complete.

by Richard fg7 on Oct 19, 2011 12:53 PM PDT reply actions  

That's why you start by airbrushing a chick in a bikini on the hood.

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."

by shams on Oct 19, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

49er fan here.....live in Oregon, so I like the hawks too.

You have lost to some really good teams, but also beat a good team (Giants). The rest of your schedule gets easier. It will be hard to make the playoffs with the 49ers playing well enough to win their games, but a winning record is not out of question.

I expect a close game in Seattle, the crowd noise is unbelievable…..good luck.

by ericalancanty on Oct 19, 2011 1:03 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Can we stop calling the Victor Cruz catch lucky?

It was a lame duck pass that was horribly misplayed by Kam Chancellor. If we had a better player, and thus a better defense, that pass doesnt get anywhere near Cruz. Not luck, just shitty defense.

by Steeeve on Oct 19, 2011 7:09 PM PDT reply actions  

You are right but "horribly" is a bit strong.

Looked to me like Chance did well to get into position but perhaps due to nerves jumped too early. Do you not agree?

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."

by shams on Oct 19, 2011 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree.

The 80’s were terrible.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Oct 19, 2011 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

You bastard!

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."

by shams on Oct 19, 2011 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

And a double bastard for the silent recc'er.

I’m going to put my Keds up both your arses.

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."

by shams on Oct 19, 2011 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

What are you talking about?

Here’s the play:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d822fc0ef/QB-Manning-to-WR-Cruz-68-yd-pass-TD

He put himself in position to make the play, tipped the ball but didn’t come down with it. It was only through LUCK that Cruz did.

There is too much luck involved in the short NFL season.
-Brian Burke

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 19, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Shitty defense but it was also an "Immaculate Reception" type play where the ball just bounced weirdly.

IT IS NOT A ROUND BALL PEOPLE THE BALL IS NOT ROUND

"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)

by Johnny Slick on Oct 19, 2011 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Insane to call that horribly misplayed.

if he makes that interception, move him to WR and cut Sidney RIce

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Oct 20, 2011 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is an excellent job of phrasing.

“We weren’t fools and outsiders that made fun of us for making the playoffs at 7-9 didn’t seem to realize that we were in on the joke.”

Well put.

I've got ridiculous upside.
-
Got me a Twitter. Follow me, won't you?

by Jacson Bevens on Oct 19, 2011 10:20 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I do think the touchback stat you mentioned is an interesting one.

Hauschka had one touchback after the Cardinals game, but he had four each in the games against the Giants and the Falcons, and that doesn’t include one where he kicked the ball from the Seahawks’ 20 yardline (after the Sidney Rice Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty against the Falcons) all the way to the opponents’ nine yardline and a KO against the Giants that went nine yards deep into New York’s end zone but was returning. Now I don’t know if he actually changed something on the way he kicks the ball off or what, but if he continues at the pace, it’ll obviously improve our ST unit.

by Coach Owens on Oct 20, 2011 12:40 AM PDT reply actions  

i think coaching wanted him to kick the ball high to the goal line

and get tackles inside the 20, but with our two best gunners injured and a couple returns by Ginn, I think he was asked to kick it deep instead of high.

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Oct 20, 2011 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

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