Seahawks Lose 3-6 to Browns in One of the Ugliest Games in NFL History
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:24 PM PDT
in Seahawks Game Recaps
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Rarely has the analogy "like a train wreck in slow motion" seemed so apt. It was a slow, plodding game, two dink-and-dunk offenses with very little big plays on either side. When the Seahawks reached the redzone with about four minutes left in the third quarter, it was the first time either team had been inside the other team's 30 yard.
This was one of the ugliest games of football I've ever seen. I wish I could say it was about two great defenses going toe-to-toe, but it really wasn't, it was about two fairly good defenses going up against a pair of incredibly bad offenses. Injuries of Zach Miller and Marshawn Lynch on our side and Massaquoi and Watson on the Cleveland side didn't help at all.
But I shouldn't undersell the defense fully, defensive linemen on both sides spent a lot of time in the other team's backfield, logging a total of eight sacks (five for us). The best players on the Seahawks side were - not coincidentally - all defensive players. Red Bryant and Brandon Mebane both had dominant games limiting the Cleveland run game (to 2.5 YPC, and that's a fairly good run-blocking O-line) as well as causing occasional pressure against the Cleveland short and quick passing game. Red Bryant also logged two blocked kicks, though the second was kind of gifted by the Browns. He played great overall, until a blatant and idiotic headbutt that got him ejected late in the 4th. It was just the perfect way to end this game.
To supplement that, Leroy Hill had a good game, but was overshadowed by David Hawthorne. After being a bit of a liability in coverage so far this season, showed up in a major way, logging a sack and hauling in a wobbly-bobbly pick on a terrible McCoy throw (most of Colt McCoy's throws were bad, so the pick was inevitable). Hawthorne had his best game so far this season, and was probably our best player on the field. So, at least we have that? Sadly, we also had to deal with some injuries on defense. Chancellor came back after sitting out some snaps, but Walter Thurmond was carted off and we'll have to nervously await news on that key young player.
As for the offense, the less said the better. Charlie Whitehurst made a ton of bad decisions and bad throws, and while some bad offensive line play and errant snaps from backup center Lemuelle Jeanpierre excuses some of it, most of it is on Charlie. This'll quiet some of the quarterback controversy but honestly the only sensible conclusion so far this season is "both our quarterbacks are bad", which is really what most of us were saying prior to the season, and what will make this a long season as we wait for a legit player under center.
There were other factors crippling this offense. You could tell we missed Marshawn Lynch on short-yardage/goalline situations, as the FO has very little faith in Justin Forsett. Missing Zach Miller showed itself in bad blocks by Cameron Morrah and bad catches by Anthony McCoy. Sidney Rice was effectively taken out of most of the game by Joe Haden, who was a major playmaker for the Browns. James Carpenter had a terrible game, not helped by the interior offensive line constantly collapsing. We produced 137 total yards, with Charlie Whitehurst logging 72 net passing yards. Bad. Terrible enough to make Tarvaris look positively desirable.
No discussion of this game would be complete without mentioning the big flub by the referees. The score would have changed from 6-3 to 6-10, Seahawks win, as the Leon Washington's punt return touchdown was called back (interception on the ensuing play with an underthrown pass from Whitehurst). It was a horrible, horrible call that had way too much influence on the game. Kennard Cox barely touched a Cleveland Brown player who reacted by flopping to the ground like an association football player. A terrible non-call. The referee, Mike Carey, is in my opinion one of the best in the game, yet there were a few calls and non-calls on both sides that were somewhat dubious, it wasn't a well-officiated game by the ending whistle. Most of the dubious calls are/were getting overblown in the emotion of the moment, but there's no excusing that block in the back call. Fans often look to blame the game on referees, and usually I instinctively go against that, but that one call on the punt return did factually change the game and it was undeniably a horrible call.
That said, it shouldn't overshadow how badly we played. 17:04 to 42:56 Time of Possession. 137 to 298 total yards. 8 to 20 first downs. 2 to 1 turnover. This is the kind of game we could've pulled out of the fire thanks to special teams, kind of like we did last year, but mostly it was just one of the worst games any of us have seen in a long time, and one we deserved to lose. And isn't that odd after the Giants win? It is, yet it makes some kind of sense. We're a very young team, and we're going to be very up and down all season, especially away. While I never expected it to get quite this bad, just figure next week we should have some key offensive starters back, and hopefully play a better game of football. Can't play much worse. Anyone who was daring to think playoffs heading into the byes, though, think again.
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Well said, Beeks.
Don't be an idiot. If an idiot would do that, then don't do it. Muahahahaaha back on twitter
I dub this game The Whitehurst Abortion
Kind of like a really, really bad Bourne movie.
@ritual605
by Greg Pirkl Lives on Oct 23, 2011 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 12 recs
I just watched this game with my grandmother, spent most of it explaining.
She didn’t really get how scoring works and had little opportunity to understand downs, but she knows exactly what penalties are.
by MT Olson on Oct 23, 2011 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Which also had an odd no PI call.
If what Cox did was a block in the back, then that should been PI on Brown.
Yes, duh
With the no PI with barely any contact that somehow everyone thought should’ ve been a PI call.
Fixing
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Y'know, for someone who is supposed to have a "cannon"
Whitehurst underthrows constantly.
"You SUCK, Keary Colbert! You should be selling insurance. INSURANCE, Keary!
-Random drunk Hawks fan in Miami after watching Keary Colbert drop another wide-open pass.
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Oct 23, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he does that too.
He tried to get Baldwin killed several times in NY.
What I was thinking is of the throw downfield that Rice had to stop, make a sandwich, drink a Coke, and then make the catch. Should have hit him in stride and it would have been a TD
"You SUCK, Keary Colbert! You should be selling insurance. INSURANCE, Keary!
-Random drunk Hawks fan in Miami after watching Keary Colbert drop another wide-open pass.
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Oct 23, 2011 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Not for me. In those games TJ was running for his life. Whitehurst had plenty of time today
by hawksfan1401 on Oct 23, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
He did not
A lot of designed rollouts helped alleviate pressure but Carpenter was horrible and the interior Oline collapsed consistently.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeesh, Carpenter kinda flew under the radar.
Not a good game for him.
Time is time, and Charlie had it on plenty of snaps.
Jackson didn’t respond well to coming pressure, exacerbating the protection issues, but those protection issues were chronic. This was about a dozen broken coverages. Pathetic, but reflects differently on the QB.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Still funny.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree.
TJ was bad the first three games but I almost positive that he averaged more then 2.4 yards per pass attempt.
by sensual vegetable on Oct 23, 2011 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
What?
For the most part he did but Carpenter = Turnstile
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Game 1 for Jackson
21/37 197 56.8% 2 1
The Department of Redundancy Department is hiring, maybe I should apply myself.
I was excited for this game
I thought we were going in there to kick some ass. I wanted to shut up those smug arrogant assholes called Cleveland Browns fans and laugh in there pathetic ugly ass faces. I thought Colt McCoy was going to get raped today. I thought Dougie Baldwin would rape a entire defence. I thought Charlie would play at least ok. I thought our players had standards and werent giant dipshits and would do something as stupid, ugly, and classless as head butt a opposing player for any reason whatsoever. I thought we had standards damn’t instead we insult the the entire damn city of Seattle with a dipshit move. I thought we could at least make a game entertaining and watchable. At the very least we could score a touchdown. I thought wrong. I was wrong.
Do or do not, there is no try-Yoda
Dude. They're Cleveland fans.
Cleveland. Ohio. I’ll just let that sink in for a while.
"You SUCK, Keary Colbert! You should be selling insurance. INSURANCE, Keary!
-Random drunk Hawks fan in Miami after watching Keary Colbert drop another wide-open pass.
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Oct 23, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
meaning?
Do or do not, there is no try-Yoda
by ironheart777 on Oct 23, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Ugh. Here, just have this.
"You SUCK, Keary Colbert! You should be selling insurance. INSURANCE, Keary!
-Random drunk Hawks fan in Miami after watching Keary Colbert drop another wide-open pass.
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Oct 23, 2011 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, good writeup.
Just a terrible game. Abysmal play by Whitehurst and McCoy. Dishonorable mentions to many others.
"You SUCK, Keary Colbert! You should be selling insurance. INSURANCE, Keary!
-Random drunk Hawks fan in Miami after watching Keary Colbert drop another wide-open pass.
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
Red
might knock him out, jus like Red did towards the end of the game.
by Bruiser89171 on Oct 23, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn I keep
thinking of that Punt return. our offense was terrible
Tarvaris once said after being asked if he thinks he will ever win the hearts of the fans
“Prolly not, but im going to go out and play and try to win some games”
even when he didnt play, he won my heart.
Not to pour salt on wounds or anything
But if Whitehurst his a wide wide wide open Rice more accurately he scores an easy TD instead of having to lunge OOB and end up with a field goal.
Not sure about that one
The throw was inside the line on a comeback route. I’m still not sure why Rice stepped out after it, he just seemed to have lost balance.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
...because Whitehurst forced him off his route
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Oct 23, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
It looked like a designed comeback
Are you saying Rice looked back and adjusted? I’d have to rewatch before making any judgement there.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
That's almost impossible to judge from the outside looking in
Unless there are obvious tells. If there were, I missed them.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
It really doesnt matter how it was designed at the point of the throw
It was a really slow developin play, mainly cause of the slow floatin throw, but the saftey was way out left and CW coulda thrown it inside more.
Rice broke his route off when Charlie started scrambling
After he caught the ball he turned to the inside and started down the sidelines. After about 5 steps he lost his balance and fell out of bounds. Charlies throw did not force him out of bounds.
He could've cracked it really close to his ankle
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Oct 23, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Great
Season heading downward
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by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
please don't post this
without a source/link
no worries
just wanted to know where the info came from.
here
Liz_Mathews Liz Mathews 710 ESPN
#Seahawks CB Walter Thurmond now out for the year with a cracked fibula per Carroll post game.
"You SUCK, Keary Colbert! You should be selling insurance. INSURANCE, Keary!
-Random drunk Hawks fan in Miami after watching Keary Colbert drop another wide-open pass.
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Oct 23, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I could have sworn we had more then 3 sacks..
by Redzone59 on Oct 23, 2011 1:37 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
We had five
/iterative story
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by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Good read Thomas...
We back in the suck for luck sweep stakes?
by Redzone59 on Oct 23, 2011 1:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Nope, no way
We might be bad enough for Barkley though.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
We're only tanking about half the games...
Not sure that’s the most intelligent plan.
by Kryten on Oct 23, 2011 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
GREAT NEWS
the NFL has overturned the decision of the game and now both teams lost. They made the decision after realizing there was no clear “winner” of this game
Watching the Seahawks is like peeing on yourself, everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling it brings
by DKrottenhawk on Oct 23, 2011 1:38 PM PDT reply actions 7 recs
He had a few nice hits
I didn’t really see any outstanding play from him though.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
He played pretty well...
Had a couple of pass breakups, lots of solid tackling and a should be sack as well as a good pressure on another play
Game ball has to go to Red Bryant
The guy took 9 points off the board. Six for two blocked field goals, and three for a headbutt
Some would even say 7 for the headbutt.
by sensual vegetable on Oct 23, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
You really think they woulda scored a TD
Havin no time outs and less than 30 seconds?
I figured we would have gotten the ball back.
But I could be wrong. Harder to keep track when you can’t watch the game.
by sensual vegetable on Oct 23, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
The thing Im more concerned about is WT3
he a vital component to the future secondary. Im happy wit the safeties but we desperate at corner
That one really sucks
The rest of this year would’ve been great for him, experience-wise
Really bummed about that.
by B.B.Finnegan on Oct 23, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup
The losses suck but the growth in the defense was always the silver lining.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Triple-yup
Thurmond was, in my estimation, our best cornerback prospect by far. Hurts in a major way.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Who was that guy we brought in back when we won that wildcard game against the Cowboys?
Pete Hunter was his name, wasn’t it? He still open to playing?
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
So can we finally stop saying that Whitehurst is "clearly" better than TJ?
One shitty game isn’t going to doom Charlie’s career, but he played as bad as any of TJ’s bad games. He held the ball too long, failed to sense pressure (from behind or in front of him), threw many near-picks, fumbled the ball twice and was consistently inaccurate on passes longer than 10 yards. These are all of TJ’s sins played out in a single game.
Also, the refs can go fuck themselves and Marshawn Lynch clearly deserves his starting job.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:06 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Marshawn Lynch is an interesting discussion
I do think he should be our starter, but I also think Leon should get much more touches. Our FO clearly doesn’t like Force, so he’s kind of hard to compare to the two, he’s just not getting a ton of chances. Then again, he did this game and didn’t do much with it (nor did Leon, I suppose).
It’d be good to have the Charlie/Tarvaris non-debate behind us.
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by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Leon did pretty well but yeah
Forsett is kinda driftin apart. Not a lotta L O V E bein shown for em.
I think it would've been a hard game for him because he doesn't create much by himself
And the Oline was allowing a lot of penetration by the defensive line. Would’ve been nice to see him in on the redzone offense though.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wouldn't that require us to get in the red zone?
by central_scrutinizer on Oct 23, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Now now,
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by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
We were there once
More than the Browns!
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup
Washington made a strong case for more touches today, but we still can’t give the guy 10-15 carries regularly. Lynch’s value is in wearing down the opposing DL and in short yardage situations. Forsett isn’t a bad RB but he can’t replicate Lynch’s production.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
It's all counterfactual speculation
but I think we would have run up the gut more with Lynch.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I think there's something to that.
I don’t know why the coaching staff won’t do that without Lynch though.
They don't trust Forsett to do it
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by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I really hate it when the refs take points off the board on a bad flag.
Gives me XL flashbacks.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Bigger problem for me was the dive.
This is going to be something the NFL needs to take a stand on. Unless they want the league to look like Central American soccer, fines need to be dished out for that conduct.
Really hard to officiate
Just look at association soccer’s attempts to get it under control. It’s hard. Fines are always a limited solution.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Fines and suspensions if you have to.
But they need to do something, anything, at this point because it’s becoming a problem.
I don't feel like we should fine refs
they don’t get paid squat to get docked a couple thousand bucks on a few blown calls. Ultimately, I think the league should just take em aside and tell them to look up at the jumbotron every once in a while when making a call.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
No, not the refs.
Players who dive. Actively discourage players from simulating.
oh
oops.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he's talking about fining players for taking dives.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
I don't know.
As a former basketball player I fulling endorse flopping.
It’s up to the refs to know better.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
It is, but you know they'll make mistakes
22 bodies moving at full speed on special teams, I can kind of understand making a mistake on a flop.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, if you're going to be ok with flops you have to give the refs a bigger margin for error.
And it’s a lot harder to have make up calls in football than it is basketball.
Teams/players get reputations.
Then you start not getting calls that you should have got.
Boy who cried wolf you know.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Manu Ginobli
is the biggest piece of trash in any major sport
by kiel.monks on Oct 23, 2011 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's pretty sad
flopping is pathetic. It ruined basketball. If it really starts happening in football its just another sign that the league is going downhill (in terms of how much theyre taking the physicality out of it)
Drawing a charge has
been part of the game as long as I can remember.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Why the fuck would you "fully endorse flopping"?!?!?
Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.
by Nick Andron on Oct 23, 2011 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
It's gamesmanship.
No different than a coach working over a ref.
Fight for every advantage you can get and get away with.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
by hazbro24 on Oct 23, 2011 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with your sentiment
but watching it this evening I think the guy just stumbled and fell. With NO help from Cox, worth emphasizing.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course
But now there’s 3 hours of incontrovertible video evidence.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
You know us writers are going to watch it again
Already looking forward to it.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
wait
why even bother (from your perspective)? Just watch the 1st quarter. It sums up the entire game. Defense plays great, wears down in the end, QB didn’t make the plane trip.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems like it
I probably won’t watch too much Seahawks offense, perhaps for blocking, but the defense should be pretty interesting throughout the game.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
well, I guess you have that to look forward to
I sure has hell do not envy you this week.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Have to see if I can find time anyway
Dunno if you guys noticed, but I had absolutely minus-time during the bye week. Wanted to do a season so far review for the defensive line, but man that eats up time.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I did see that
Usually your posting is pretty active, but we had some of the other contributers in Stephens and the other guy (name slips my memory for the moment) as well as Danny taking the load.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Charlie Todaro
He’s been awesome from what I’ve seen, though I think we could’ve done with a few more analytic posts during the bye week. But you know me, I always want more analysis.
Word of Muth made up for a lot.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't mind the comedy
But I would loooove to see more breakdowns.
by B.B.Finnegan on Oct 23, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's all about time
Not saying comedic writing is easy, it’s not, but proper analysis just takes so…much…time. Watching plays a dozen times, taking notes, looking up points of reference on formations or plays if you need more info, analyzing in your head, and writing up, it takes forever.
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by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Apparently so. I had no idea what I was talking about. I admit it.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
I'd become convinced he wasn't
over time, due to a number of factors, before this week, so I was something of an opponent of those voices. But to give credit, very few thought Charlie was “clearly” better. Just that the goat behind door #1 made seeing what was behind door #2 very enticing.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Eh, our runningbacks averaged 4.1 ypc. Should’ve ran it more rather then trying to rely on Whitehurst. You don’t remember the beginning of the year? Lynch was good for about 2 ypc. A lot of this is on the Oline, but not having Lynch didn’t kill this game. Having a QB that completes 40% of his passes and not even a hundred yards does.
Jackson got no help from the run game, Lynch included, and look bad but not this bad.
by B.B.Finnegan on Oct 23, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I haven't seen the game yet, but I will quit saying CW is better than TJax.
Tremendously disappointed.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
I was one that rooted for Charlie in the pre-season to have a fair shot
After yesterdays “game” I am firmly on the T-Jax bandwagon for the rest of the year.
by Michael Harp on Oct 24, 2011 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Guy on a buffalo needs to go.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. - Al Swearengen
Zero excuses. Referees gave that game to the Browns.
Bottom line. Full stop. No ifs ands or buts. Repeated horrendous no calls, or ridiculous calls against the Hawks. The sole penalty on us I saw them get right was the headbutt on Bryant.
I have never been more infuriated after a game than I am right now. It was an abomination and an absolute unquestioned embarrassment for the league to have such disgraceful officiating.
While that was a reason
the 2nd reason which is pretty close in importance to the blown calls was CW’s inability to play.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
The one egregious call was the block in the back
by BrianL on Oct 23, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Which Cox had no business reaching out the way he did, whether he blocked the guy or not.
He was looking right at that dude’s back. And it still left them in scoring positon.
I still say the roughing call on Kam was bogus.
Even if he did “lead with the head,” the rule is bad and needs to be fixed. Considering Kam’s helmet never touched McCoy, I wish the refs would have used some common sense (but if they were to do that, who knows who shitty their calls would be).
Sure, the rule is bad
That doesn’t make the call bogus.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
His helmet clearly hit a glancing blow
It was less severe than it could have been but it wasn’t a bad call.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
The trouble is that is he lifts his head up, he may get helmet-to-helmet contact.
To be safe, a defensive rusher should remove his helmet just before he hits the QB, and make sure he doesn’t touch anywhere near the head, shoulder or collar. But he has to make the helmet removal look accidental or he’s get a “removing-your-helmet” penalty.
by Kryten on Oct 23, 2011 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Did refs have an effect on the outcome? Yes
but 3 fucking points!?!?!?!
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. - Al Swearengen
by Lo Pann on Oct 23, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We lost because of Charlie, but we could have won if the refs did their fucking jobs correctly.
Nobody should be left unembarrassed after that shitty, SHITTY game. The Seahawks, Browns, the refs and the NFL collectively should all have egg on their face.
by J.L. White on Oct 23, 2011 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Referees made a couple bad calls
but we gave them the game. Offense was the most pathetic out of any team i’ve seen in a long time
Tim Tebow put up 18 and Charlie Whitehurst put up 3
thats how bad he is
by jaredmt on Oct 23, 2011 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tebow makes the case that he is actually the true 2nd coming and CW is not
Hass’s daughter was wrong.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Tebow was playing the Dolphins in front of a stadium full of Tebow fans.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Ya except the showdown between the hawks and browns
made the broncos-phins game look amazing
Yes
His power level was over 9000.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
pretty poor showing then
considering his power level goes up to infinity
Don't forget to crush your Scouter, Beeks.
Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"
Wish we had a scouter when watching NFL football
It’d be pretty interesting.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Truth dude. That'd be awesome!
Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"
Let's see...
8000, 8500, 10000, 6000…500? Who the f*ck is only 500? Oh. Hi Charlie.
Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence lies in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
-Sun Tzu-
So Charlie is the Yamcha of our team?
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." ~ Dinobot
by beastwarking on Oct 23, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty much
Dude tries so hard, trains, shows confidence, and then always loses in the 1st round of the Tenkaichi Budokai…
Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence lies in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
-Sun Tzu-
I'll agree that the offense performed historically poorly
But no PI on the interception, the offensive PI on Baldwin (there cannot be PI within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage), the leading with the head rule (he didn’t hit him his head so…), Rice getting held in the endzone…even down to more judgment stuff like the late hit on the RIce screen (no call), Williams getting clocked in the head on the last play of the game… There were countless calls that could have been made but weren’t, and a ridiculous number of bad penalty calls on the Hawks.
Completely agree
Refs were terrible but its not like the Browns seperated from the seahawks because of that. they scored 6 points the whole game. Gotta overcome that
A lot of those are the kind of iffy calls that we would've applauded if they had been going our way
There was barely any contact on that interception, and Chancellor clearly hit McCoy with the crown of his helmet first, which is a stupid rule but a correct call.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
There were also a handful of calls/non-calls that we got away with
Saw at least one blatant holding we got for free, and one PI on the Browns that should not have been called.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
If I had any interest in watching a second of this horrible game ever again, I might disagree with you.
It didn’t look like the helmet touched McCoy when U saw it happeb, but if you say it did, I’ll take your word on it. Fuck. This. Game.
Sorry to disagree but it did his back.
Watch the slomo from the back camera.
I actually didn't see the Chancellor hit because I was late getting to the bar for the game, I was told emphatically by everyone that he didn't hit him with his head
But whoever made the INT (Haden) physically wrapped up Rice when the ball was in the air. That’s not iffy, that’s PI.
Oh, I also forgot on the pass attempt in the endzone to McCoy, the Cleveland back never got his head around, and grabbed McCoy’s arm and pulled it down, making zero attempt to play the ball, so put that one on there too,
I'm pretty sure he didn't touch his arm while the ball was still in the air
But it’s hard to argue this kind of stuff from memory, I’ll have to watch the game again for much of this. Not going to make a judgement call purely on emotion of the moment.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure, I can understand that
I’m just saying, if Jim Mora is saying the Hawks got a raw deal, there might be something there. And he said it a few times.
While I usually defend refs
I don’t think there’s much denying that this was a poorly officiated game. I just don’t think it’s worth focusing on, and a lot of these calls weren’t as bad as people are making them out to be.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
We should have won this game despite the refs.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
With Lynch out and a backup QB?
With the usual starters I’d say yes we could have overcame the shit calls/no calls.
We were hurt by some of our missing players, yes
That doesn’t excuse quite how bad our backups and remaining starters did. A lot of it is on Charlie, but not all of it.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
The o-line played decent today.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe, considering the opposition, but I don't think it was a strong game, especially early
Carpenter had a horrible game, and there was a ton of interior pressure, plus TEs flubbing blocks a lot.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
True
but they didn’t have a ‘oh my god put in Giacomini right now’ type of game.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
And the Browns Dline is somewhat underrated
So yeah, could be worse.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm just sick of ALWAYS being on the wrong side of poorly-officiated games.
If it was the Cowboys or the Patriots that kept on getting hosed, would the NFL continue to sit on its hands and pretend nothing happened? The NFL says it wants to improve officiating, but I get the feeling they on;y want to fix things so that people like us (or, more importantly, prominent sportswriters) stop complaining.
I guess we should just accept our lot in life as the referee’s occasional bitch.
The NFL used the Seahawks in their ticket ad...
so I think tn thier mind that makes up for it.
I remember it
The defender never once looked for the ball, he just pulled McCoys arm down as he went up. You can say you won’t blame the refs, but they did have an undeniable negative effect on the game dropping the hammer on the Seahawks for what would usually be incidental contact while Browns defenders being ignored while they got handsier than Domonique Strauss-Khan.
I bought in!!!
The OPI call on Baldwin would have been iffy.
If the ball was in the air. Terrible call.
I'm only really pissed about the "block in the back" on the Leon TD return
We still would have won this game if our QB played like a top-25 guy.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
which TJack probably is
based off his most recent outings
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Are we seriously trying to divide each other into Team Tarvaris and Team Whitehurst?
They’re both bad and have no business being a part of this team’s future. Some people wanted to see if Whitehurst could be better and he isn’t, in fact he’s probably worse. Story over, Jackson comes back next week and I’m sure it won’t take long till we’re pining for the draft and dividing each other into Team Landry, Team Moore and Team Barkley.
by Nate Dogg on Oct 23, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
TJ vs Charlie is the new Hasselbeck vs Charlie. “We were always at war with East Asia” and all that.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
You know, that actually might be a good idea
I hadn’t thought of it before but it just might work. We should all chip in and send somebody down to the corner QB store.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Everybody needs to hit up their local grocery store bag boys and see if theres a Kurt Warner floating around.
by Nate Dogg on Oct 23, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll put up a
Craigslist ad.
Can't wait for the 2011 season to kick in.
I'm a one man rec'n crew
by jubelthebear on Oct 23, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
no, no
You’ll end up getting Ryan Leaf with a Warner Halloween mask. We’re going to have strike this one out on foot.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And you know, at least Team Hasselbeck made sense.
I didn’t agree with them obviously, but there was a lot of history with Hasselbeck and the occasional breakout game. The idea that people are this passionate about Tarvaris, to the point that they’re calling out the “Charlie Chanters”, is crazy to me.
Well
calling out those people who chant ‘Charlie’ at a CLINK isn’t far fetched at all. That’s what I did (not sure where the posts went though, might have been taken down). People like Hazbro on here, I don’t have a problem. But those people at the stadium doing that really have no reason to do it now.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
*I don't have a problem with
partially b/c I was all for seeing what we have in CW.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I think I called out the tendency to chant for backups in one story
Referring specifically to “Carr Carr Carr”. Someone took umbrage tho.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
That'll always happen, I suppose
They’ve brought it up on 710 ESPN a lot – the backup QB is usually the cool stuff of the city. Until they stink games like this one.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, "usually" for teams that have a historical tendency not to seriously address the QB position
Like, well, us.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Very true
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
You sound like one of them there Charlie Chanters
You know what we do with Charlie Chanters out here, dontcha? We string em up!
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah.....
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I got lost where I was in the comments a little.
Still though, calling TJack a solid top 25 guy based on the second half of the Atlanta game and the first half of the Giants game is a stretch.
Based off how he was playing and how the offense was clicking?
He made a case for 25th or 24th, I’d say. Not middle of the group, definitely not, but at least in the discussion.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he's a top 25 guy...
considering there’s usually 4 teams with bye weeks, TJax is definitely in the top 25 of the 28 starting QB’s
by central_scrutinizer on Oct 23, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
No...well, at least I'm not
just pointing out that under the assumption of consistency (which is debatable) and play up to now, TJack probably wins us this game.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Kellen Moore
A dwarfish weak-armed game-winning QB, who will inevitably will be compared to Drew Brees
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Jones is the new Rivers
Southern guy with a hitch in his throw.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
You forgot team Griffindor
from Baylor
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
by hazbro24 on Oct 23, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Isn't it 'Gryffindor'?
Just sayin’.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah...never heard of him...
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Robert Griffin the 3rd.
He’s got his fanboys on here already.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
No? He's a pretty big deal
Robert Griffin III, he’s one of those late-risers. Very athletic, high-upside guy, but with a lot of flags. Doesn’t look like a 1st-round guy to me but he might hype his way up.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope.
Well, I’ll look into him…maybe.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
We probly gonna be havin a high 2nd rounder but
I can see everyone and the media trippin over John and Pete not pickin a QB early
You see what happen there?
I had no idea who you were talking about.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Happened.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
The way I look at it both are just trying out for the back up role
when the new QB gets here and the other is cut or not re-signed. So far it looks like T-Jax is the winner, but we have the whole rest of the year to see I guess.
"I can't believe I ate the whole thing..."
by ballsoffire3 on Oct 23, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont know why but I really dont feel too bad after it
The WT3 injury is the worst. But I loved the way the defense is shapin out
With no pass rush and sans two cornerbacks
We’ll see how the defense continues to shape up.
Man, if only we’d have got Johnathan Joseph this off-season. IF ONLY
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
No, our offense's pathetic play gave that game to the Browns.
Stop whining about the officiating.
"You SUCK, Keary Colbert! You should be selling insurance. INSURANCE, Keary!
-Random drunk Hawks fan in Miami after watching Keary Colbert drop another wide-open pass.
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Oct 23, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll stop "whining" about it when it improves.
And there’s a world of difference between whining, and coherently pointing to multiple poor decisions by the officials that had a direct impact on the game.
Two uncalled PI calls and the awful block in the back penalty.
The rest of it was pretty good. Carpenter’s very 1st false start I didn’t think needed calling.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
But if the refs gave the game to the Browns,
we gave the game to the refs to give it to the Browns.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Haha heres a question
Would Seneca Wallace win that game?
hm
interesting question. I would say…yes. But that’s like a 50% yes.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Since he plays for the Browns,
I’m thinking he might have.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
He would get us into position at the end of it
Then on the second to last play, pull a Senesack, knocking us out of field goal range
by B.B.Finnegan on Oct 23, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
damn did he run fast on those sacks
then he always inevitably painfully horribly slipped. and fell. While trying to turn around.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
So that Red Bryant guy is pretty fucking awesome, right?
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:28 PM PDT reply actions
Yeah I was laughin when Mora was runnin his mouth
about bein a Hall of famer and then Pro Bowl. But yeah that boys amazin
agreed
I heard that and sort of laughed incredulously. Unless Bryant grows a third leg, I doubt that’ll happen.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
And Mora wasn't much of dick today
Dude was very complimentary of the Hawks.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
didn't he say that if Bradley got a job elsewhere and he got offered the D-coordinator job here he'd take it?
It was in an interview this week somewhere…
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I was surprised about that
He mighta been over doin it to try and show he isnt bitter tho.
Better than actually being bitter
I usually don’t care about commentating, but they got in a few funny jibes and at moments Mora actually had some insights, though I didn’t agree with him too much.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
He was way overly biased and fixated on Seattle.
The man is still a fan, and considering how bitterness and fanhood must be diabolically conflicting, it’s pretty remarkable how much it’s clear he’s still rooting for this team.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions
If Tarvaris is out for the year, like I suspect,
Then Luck might be back in play. CW is just bad.
Didn't Tarvaris practice late this week?
What makes you think he’s out?
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
What's "limited practice"?
Just feels like we’re not hearing enough about TJ’s recovery and that generally means that it’s worse than we think.
In this case I suspect
“limited practice” is Carroll’s “gamesmanship” of the injury report, which he seems to take seriously.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions
.....
he has a pectoral strain, he’s not going to be out for the year. He’s probably playing next week.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Mario Williams has a torn pectoral
Not that the term “pectoral strain” tells us a lot. Williams essentially has a grade 3 strain, which requires surgery, while I’d assume Tarvaris has a strain 1-2 strain. But we don’t really know.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
High grade strain
Doesn’t that have to mean grade 2 or more?
Dunno, but if it was grade 3, there's no way he'd be even a limited participant in practice
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, something doesn't add up somewhere
Either the injury was less severe than what was reported or they’re being very overly optimistic about his recovery.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
There's no way he's going to play like this every game
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
you mean he can get worse
?!?
Can't wait for the 2011 season to kick in.
I'm a one man rec'n crew
by jubelthebear on Oct 23, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hush child
From your lips to the QB’s ears (and from there into the waiting hands of the CB)
Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence lies in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
-Sun Tzu-
This year its not enough to be pretty bad if you want a top pick
The suck at the bottom of the league is pretty spectacular this year.
As bad as we are we still have three games against StL and Arizona not to mention Washington and Cincy at home, where the 12’s will probably pull one out despite our offensive suckitude.
That puts us between 4-6 wins. No way 3 of the following teams win more than 4 games (with our weak division a tie breaker seems unlikely)
Stl (traded to Washington for 10 first rounders)
Indy
Miami
Denver
KC
Seahawks will draft in the low teens, we either reach for Jones in the first or take a flier on someone later (please god let it be kellen moore) if we are goign to draft or QBOTF next year.
On the other hand Jason Campbell and McNabb appear to be available.
Its also about time for people to start offering way too much for Matt Flynn why not the Seahawks? GB backups worked out for us before.
GET OFF ME!
4 wins might get you to 9th or 10th but even if you got you to 5th it wouldn't matter
because that is way to high to take Landry Jones and way to late for Barkley or Luck
although it does increase the chances you can get Jones in the second which I would be fine with
GET OFF ME!
I think it's a bit early to say definitively where guys will go
Though your estimates sound about right
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
we didn’t see Locker going that high, so things can happen
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
but Luck is gone #1 or #2
for sure, unless he does nothing short of die.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, barring some kind of career-threatening injury, he's gone with #1
Even falling to #2 is hard to see, maybe if the Rams pick first but they’d probably trade out.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I just went through the standings back to 2010
Its amazing how hard it appears to be to win less than four games. I expected a lot more 2-3 win teams, but there isn’t a single year with more than 3 teams with less than 4 wins.
GET OFF ME!
This year might break that.
But I don’t think the 4-6 win teams will end up much lower than previous years. The bad teams are just really bad this year.
They weren't trying as hard.
We have a real race for the top this year.
Cincinnati? They're going to eat our lunch, man.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions
The thing I am really pissed about
is that I anxiously waited 2 weeks for this shit.
You have my condolences
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Same here.
Even with all the red flags – early game, on the road, after a bye – this appeared to be a game we had about a 50/50 chance of winning. To see it unfold like that was the worst part. We didn’t just lose, we utterly failed.
The refs took some points off the board, to be sure, but ultimately you are not going to win many games where you gain a total of 137 offensive yards. The Seahawks had plenty of opportunities to score, and wasted them all. That was the worst part of it.
"There's an old saying - revenge is a dish best served immediately."
So, where is that pacificsands dude now?
by jhmg16 on Oct 23, 2011 4:11 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Don't make any of this personal
Don’t call out posters by name
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Why, exactly?
And how is that personal? It’s not a personal attack. If a guy can make preposterous assertions for two weeks it doesn’t seem unreasonable to ask the question.
by jhmg16 on Oct 23, 2011 4:16 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
for reference
I don’t remember him. What’d he say again?
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, Benne, relax. My goodness.
There is no personal grudge and it’s totally hysterical to paint it that way.
by jhmg16 on Oct 23, 2011 4:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not going to get into it out of deference to Humongous
But I’m sure you can look up his comment history. It was ridiculous, and I think rhetorical and intellectual acountability should carry some weight here.
by jhmg16 on Oct 23, 2011 4:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
For sure.
If you post over the top, inane, insupportable drivel in NON GAME THREADS, you deserve a good ribbing, just not mean spirited.
by BlueThruAndThru on Oct 23, 2011 4:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm with you
I almost called him out earlier. It’s the great art of trolling to be there when conditions suit and avoid speaking when your position is indefensible. The guy was ridiculous and has not let the CW/Tarvaris thing go since he was named starter. Just an inciter.
by Stay Off the Flowers on Oct 23, 2011 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Mike Carey
I’ve always been a huge fan of Mike Carey, seems like he has called a lot of great games, but his last 2 have been stinkers. Last weeks was actually even worse, and I wasn’t a fan of either team so I had no horse in the race, it was just filled with terrible calls left and right. I wonder if he has a few new guys on his crew.
So when did it become legal for Sidney Rice to be grabbed upwards of 6 times per game?
Because that’s what happened today.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
If Seattle does not trade for a QB in his prime (throw a bitch fit, Rivers)
Or get one in the 1st round then Q/PM are delusional fools.
Ponder, Newton, and Dalton, all with decent-to-great play this year, should put an emphatic end to the idea that you need to automatically sit the guy down for a year or two and let the veteran handle the controls. Well, them and Matt Ryan and I guess Joe Flacco.
There’s something about throwing rookie QBs to the wolves I like. I don’t know why. More elite colleges are dropping this bullcrap gimmicky Georgia Tech-style of offense and running some form of an NFL-style system.
Get a QB next year and now.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
next year and now
That’s a winner. I’m writing that one down.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
We should really get 3.
Just to be safe.
I am convinced that Seattle sports teams exist to make me hate Seattle sports teams.
by the other side on Oct 23, 2011 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Why stop at three?
The Raiders had four or five on the roster at this time last year.
"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan
"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"
God, this game was worse than the Oakland debacle last year.
At least our defense held up for most of the time they were left on the field, but other than that, everything else about this game makes me sick. I wish I could delete the details from my brain and just move on.
I didn't really expect Bryant to seriously dominate like he did today
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Put him in Hawaii. Now.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
The very presence of Jim Mora made the Seahawks suck today.
There I said it. No one else mentioned this.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
I actually didn't mind him too much in the booth
his assholishness was kind of refreshing. I liked it when his partner would say something and he would just tell him he was wrong. Like when he said something about running the Tampa-2 and Mora says ‘they don’t run the tampa-2’.
Your’e probably right though, this is totally his fault somehow.
GET OFF ME!
Beekers, Whitehurst sucked today
Jackson did not play. Using CW’s “performance” as a platform to bolster your preseason knee jerk reaction to Jackson seems somewhat juvenile to me.
by vertigoman on Oct 23, 2011 7:37 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Whitehurst was terrible
But explain the Rams game last year and the 2nd half of the Giants game this year?
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Why do I need to explain those games?
What does that have to do with what I said?
This game today was one of the worst performances by a Seattle starting QB ever.
Not sure how old you are, but that’s quite a lineage to under perform.
He was not just statistically terrible, his peeformance was aweful. Telegraphing screens, no pocket presence, over throwing, under throwing. He actually cost the team 7 by a Underthrowing a wide open Rice who had to tip toe the line to make the reception on an otherwise certain TD. He skrewed up even when success was assured.
Sure there were other contributors to the offenses demise. And Yes, the officiating was as bad as it has ever been. Glazing over CW’s historically bad performance because it does not back up the writers prediposed opinion of either him or his QB counterpart is just bad writing. It’s fan boy level stuff. I expect more and so should you.
And no this isn’t a personal attack, I just tire of the “knowitall” BS. Decrying several posters here for their open mindedness to the QB position. Calling their arguments week, accusing those that don’t agree with the writers QB rants as being “Jackson Apologists”.
And I’m referring to both Beekers and Beenie here.
If this was Jackson putting up today’s performance, there would be no other topic of discussion.
It’s lame, it’s slanted and it should stop for the good of this site.
by vertigoman on Oct 23, 2011 8:21 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Who is decrying posters or user the term Jackson Apologist?
Who is Beenie?
How did I glaze over Whitehurst’s bad performance? I called him terrible and noted the officiating shouldn’t distract us of how bad this team played. I’m not going to talk just about the QB in a post-game recap though, that would be a bad job.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Beanie Wells obviously.
Dude got injured and went to Field Gulls.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Hell, in fact, I pretty clearly stated there aren't a lot of excuses at all for Whitehurst
If I were a fanboy I’d have tried to stretch the protection issues or missing certain players, which were real issues, into excusing Whitehurst, but that’s not how I see it, I saw a fundamentally flawed QB whose performance was exacerbated by surrounding but smaller problems.
Sorry, I just don’t see where you’re coming from.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
you have just brought down the wrath of a rationalized argument down upon you
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not?
Whitehurst was miserable and horrendous but Jackson’s entire career with Minnesota, with a better set of players, was a failure.
Charlie may be terrible but today’s performance doesn’t mean Jackson is 100% better than Charlie. For now it means they’re about equal in their own, unique, awful way.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
He's joking about vertigoman's "knee jerk" remark
Ironically, for someone complaining about falsely decrying opinion, vertigoman is the person who seems to have an agenda here and is ignoring context.
I would say Whitehurst’s performance was definitely bad enough to put Tarvaris above him, though.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Jury is still out
Tarvaris is probably better but I think not having Unger, Lynch, and Zach really hurt this offense as a whole.
T-Jax would’ve likely just sucked in a different way under the same circumstances.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
The Browns D has some talent too
But a lot of the things wrong with Whitehurst looked pretty fundamental. Yes, the jury is still out to some extent, just like it would’ve been out if he’d performed well, but I’d expect the FO to go back to Tarvaris now, and I don’t think anyone can blame em.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep it's got to be Jackson ASAP
Sad. I really want Charlie to succeed.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
I want whoever is under center for the Seahawks to succeed
But never thought the odds were great for Tarvaris (proven to have mediocre game manager as his upside) and Whitehurst (unproven). It is what it is.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This, this, this....
A million times THIS!!
T-Jax doesn't seem to have as many errant throws
if my anger clouded memory can be believed, in the previous three games he was at least putting the ball where people good get it. T-Jax might be more prone to throwing at defenders, but at least he doesn’t panic for 3-5 seconds and under or over throw to guys. The QB situation just seems to be a giant turd sandwich this year. On another note… One thing that had me fuming by the end of the game was all the targets McCoy got, even though the guy let 5 or 6 passes bounce off his hands.
I bought in!!!
T-Jax doesn't panic and overthrow guys?
Are we watching the same Jackson?
He does both, but yeah, he prefers to target the knees
But he’s hung out his WRs to take licks several times too
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 24, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I certainly don't have an "agenda"
That’s kind of a dumb thing for you to say.
In fact, I’m not one of the posters that you and Bennie or whatever his name is (I stopped reading his stuff) have belittled for a difference of opinion. I am calling you out on it though.
My reason for writing what I wrote was pretty clear. This kind of Charlie Whitehurst vs. Tavris Jackson crap has weakened this site. It’s created sides. And the two of you have been a big part of that. I wish FGs was better than this and to honest, it used to be.
by vertigoman on Oct 23, 2011 11:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I certainly don't have an "agenda"
\Explains agenda.
There are 925 words in this post. 61 one them, two sentences, make a reference to Tarvaris Jackson or the quarterback situation. What exactly is the problem here?
I don't understand your issue
I have not written a single article about Whitehurst vs Jackson, only expressed in comments I find it a futile debate, and expressing my opinion both are bad. How is saying both are bad “creating sides”? You accuse me of being a fanboy when I call Whitehurst terrible. What would you have had me do here? Ignore the QB debate wholesale because it’s a touchy subject? In context, there’s no way I wouldn’t make mention of it, and Danny mentioned it again in his further thoughts.
Yes, I can be a bit brusque, but that’s on any topic, not just this one. I don’t think either I or Benne spent any specific amount of time replying to supporters of Tarvaris to belittle them or even writing articles on the subject, so what do you base this accusation on?
“Kind of a dumb thing to say”? You seem pretty dedicated to exemplifying the violations you’re accusing me of. It was a bit silly to say, but your posts do come across as something that’s been simmering for a while now and now came out in reply to this story even though that doesn’t make much sense, since one of the main points of the story is “Whitehurst was awful and noting in the game really excused him”.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 24, 2011 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
As someone who felt throughout the pre-season that CW was the better QB...
…today’s poor performance proves otherwise.
The stars should have been aligned for Charlie today. He had plenty of notice to start, and played against a mediocre team.
Sure, it’s possible this was an outlier of what might otherwise be a steller NFL career, but nothing we have seen indicates that. On the contrary. Many of us have been calling to see CW play, and for better or worse, today was the day to silence all of his doubters.
Was the pressure too great? Shouldn’t matter – all good NFL QBs play under pressure. This should have been an easy game for Charlie, not the disaster it turned out to be.
He’s been in the league plenty long enough. This game justifies his third string status in San Diego, and PC’s unwillingness to give him more opportunity, even when Hasselbeck and TJax were playing poorly.
It’s a damn shame, really. This could have been something special, if CW had been – or could ever be – something special.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
He's had pressure before
And we won the NFC West.
It was a disaster because Seattle can’t run the ball. Apparently the passing game immediately folds when the 15 yard chunks aren’t coming in.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Crap wanted to edit it and say
Primarily because Seattle can’t run the ball. Whitehurst isn’t all-star caliber so once the run game goes so does Jackson and Charlie.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Well, realistically
at NYG we didn’t run effectively either until TJack and the passing game got really rolling.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think TJax is a 'good' NFL QB, and I don't think he ever will be...
…based on what we have seen here and in Minnisota, but before today, I held out hope that maybe, just maybe, CW could approach ‘good’. His real-game experience has been slight, nothing compared to TJax, and as many have said since CW joined the team, no way to find out how good he could be without getting him on the field.
I thought he looked good against the Giants. The game against the Rams was – let’s be real – against the Rams. His loss against the Giants (I think) last year would have been the same with him or Hass. They crushed the Seahawks.
CW’s pre-season looked good. TJax’s pre-season, and first few games, looked awful. Then TJax showed us something against Atlanta and the Giants, something approaching average-good, and I was hoping that was in part due to the maturity of the o-line, the run game and the rest of the offense. Had that been the case, then either TJax or CW should have been successful today.
We’ll never know how TJax would have fared – probably far better than CW this day, but to think that CW could get a lot better with more regular game experience may be holding out false hope (although to be completely fair, many QBs need so much regular season seasoning before they really bloom).
Please – no more terrible QB play in Seattle. Too many years – decades – of suffering…
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Platform?
It was worth mentioning because there has been a “QB debate” of sorts, and it’s worth reminding people we’re not talking about good-bad here, just bad-and-less-bad.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, you seem to be confusing me with people who said emphatically that Whitehurst is better than Jackson
I post a lot, but I’m fairly sure I’ve never said that
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that would have been me.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Not Beekers.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
If you're not Beekers....
Then…then…who are you? Beenie? The possibilities are…endless…
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe we were all Beenie all along.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Gasp!
But no, I’d know if I was Beenie. Wouldn’t I? This just in, breaking news: I am Beekers!
Wait. But if you’re not Beekers, but we were all Beenie, and I was Beekers, where does this bring us?!?
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Stop with the mind-fucking drunk people
I think I just blew a couple thousand neurons trying to figure that out
Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence lies in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
-Sun Tzu-
The greatest trick Beenie ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
And like that, poof. He’s gone.
by SmartAssCoug on Oct 23, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Hasselbeck's first three starts as a Seahawk
43-86, 407 yards, 0 TD, 3 INT and a 1-2 record.
It sounds stupid but that’s why I’m not ready to write off Whitehurst forever, but he sure gets on my nerves with some of the throws he makes.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
We haven't seen enough of Charlie to know if he is a complete wash
But based off of todays performance, he won’t likely get many chances to prove anybody wrong which is unfortunate for his career. I guess this means that we have to stick with Mr. Mediocrity Jackson until he forgets to slide while showing us all how tough he is.
I made this point earlier in one of the game threads
and the issue is, you’re right. We don’t know that CW sucks. But in the win-first-and-win-now league that this has evolved into, he will likely never get many chances at all. Unfortunately. We developed Matt for what, two-three years? That probably won’t happen nowadays what with the caliber of players coming straight out of college in every draft.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point. When you can start Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton...
…with some amount of success, why wait? Draft your guy and get him on the field. Or wait a few games with McNabb and then start Ponder.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Hass was never this bad.
At least I don’t remember him this bad.
Hah, let's play guess the QB
Gess the QB
CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG TD INT RAT
12-30 97 40.0 3.23 0 1 35.0
14-30 104 46.7 3.5 1 2 38.8
by B.B.Finnegan on Oct 24, 2011 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
He was also drunk the final 4 weeks of 2009
There isn’t a significant drop-off from bad Matt to Whitehurst or Jackson.
Good Matt though is much better than the other two.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Yeah
Good Matt is stellar ‘carry the team three quarters of the way on my back’ good.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Tarvaris on his best days is pretty good too
He just has never been able to consistently uphold even a mediocre level of play, and that’s pretty major.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Oct 23, 2011 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Hasselbeck was breaking in as a starter much earlier in his career.
This is Whitehurst’s sixth season, Hasselbeck’s sixth season was 2003 in which he had a 6.2 ANY/A and lead a 10-6 team in his first full season starting after throwing for 3,000 yards in 10 starts the previous year. Hasselbeck was also hand selected and groomed by one of the most accomplished QB gurus in NFL history. You’re not really making an apples to apples comparison of their careers by just stating Matt’s stats in his first three starts.
Yes, it's too early to rule out Whitehurst
but both Charlie and TJ are likely mediocre-to-bad. This game won’t define Charlie’s career but it is one big piece of evidence suggesting that he isn’t an immediate upgrade over TJ.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Oct 23, 2011 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand, but windows for football success are just too short.
For the sake of the careers of the other players, and the job security of Carroll & Schneider, I cannot condone any further grace period for any QB to come around. They’re simply babysitting, keeping the position warm for the next 10 games.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Additional good news:
We aren’t the Colts.
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Oct 23, 2011 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Dear Lord
Thought I had accidentally tuned in to NCAA replays or something when I saw the score in the 4th quarter.
Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence lies in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
-Sun Tzu-
Warning: This serving of good news, while tasty and delicious, has a short shelf life.
Best before April 2012.
But if we were we'd be on our way to a QB :(
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
But if he did we'd be on our way to a QB :(
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Oct 24, 2011 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
How are we not in the luck hunt??
We have two wins….
by Reebeck12 on Oct 24, 2011 1:30 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
We were never out of it.
You never know what will happen on draft day. Unfortunately, two teams with a definite need at QB are 0-6, and with a prospect as highly thought of as Luck, those teams may not be willing to trade down no matter what.
"You SUCK, Keary Colbert! You should be selling insurance. INSURANCE, Keary!
-Random drunk Hawks fan in Miami after watching Keary Colbert drop another wide-open pass.
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Oct 24, 2011 4:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Still 10 games to go
I’m not counting us out of the Luck sweepstakes. Not with CW starting for us.
So what if
the Colts draft Luck #1 and make Manning available…would you give up next years 1st?
Obey gravity....it's the law
or more, like the Raiders did for Palmer?
Obey gravity....it's the law
I've only seen Luck play one time (against the Huskies this weekend)
but why is this guy so great? Marqueis Gray from the University of Minnesota would look like a God too if he had an eight yard pocket and a running game. Hell, Charlie Whitehurst would be the number one pick.
He's going to have a hard time living up to the hype
If he’s anything less than a HOFer, he’ll be considered a disappointment.
I really don't know.
I’ve only seen him play a couple times. I’m not in Pac-10 country, so I don’t get the opportunity. Either way, he looked good, but a lot of college QB’s do.
What I do know about Luck is: IF he comes out next year, he will be subject to the full brunt of scrutiny that the internet/social media/dvr crowd can muster. I kind of feel bad for the guy.
"You SUCK, Keary Colbert! You should be selling insurance. INSURANCE, Keary!
-Random drunk Hawks fan in Miami after watching Keary Colbert drop another wide-open pass.
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Oct 24, 2011 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
as we wait for a legit player under center.
Not going to happen through the draft unfortunately. As usual, the Seahawks will win just enough games to suck, but not enough to draft that franchise QB. At best we can hope for someone elses “game-manager” cast off, second or third stringer. If we’re really lucky he’ll have a great season or two and get the team deep into the playoffs once or twice.
This team will not be drafting either of the top two QB’s in April. In fact, I’d bet they draft DB’s with their first two picks.
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