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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Can Carroll Bring the Seahawks Back Together?

SEATTLE - OCTOBER 30:  Quarterback Tavaris Jackson #7 of the Seattle Seahawks throws a pass against the Cincinnati Bengals on October 30, 2011 at Century Link Field in Seattle, Washington.  (Photo by Jonathan Ferrey/Getty Images)

The Seahawks went into the season with the goal of "owning the division." They are currently 2-5 after losing 34-12 at home to Cincinnati, now well behind the 6-1 49ers. Seattle is frustrated and they should be. This may be a young coaching staff and roster, but heading into the season they didn't envision being at this juncture. Especially with Pete Carroll as head coach.

To make matters more charged; many Seahawks fans are frustrated and have a right to be. Regardless of one's expectations heading into the season, seeing this team at 2-5 and discombobulated simply sucks.

I was frustrated about the loss in Cleveland and I'm frustrated about this loss. As Carroll put it, "we gave them everything they needed in that game." Seattle shot themselves in the foot in all phases; too many penalties and that special teams meltdown bug bit again, not to mention an odd occurrence with Andy Dalton and the tuck rule or a hotly debated coaching decision by Carroll. Post game, Carroll said the team has lots of improvement they have to locate; there are X and O's from this loss that I think deserve attention. But frankly, that simply isn't on my mind right now.

What I am thinking about is what happens next.  To get to this point; the Seahawks put up 22 in the second half against the Giants, on the road, "hot" at 2-3 and heading into the bye. Carroll got optimistic with his team and spoke of losing no more, only to see the Seahawks put up 15 points in their next two games combined. It's become painfully clear the message may have been misunderstood, misrepresented, or simply mistimed.

Star-divide

The fact that Carroll said the team is getting in their own way for the second week in a row makes me think, even more so than I did after last week, Carroll's message after the New York win did not go across as intended. He admitted after this loss that the team simply has not progressed enough to complement his sometimes impatient, usually aggressive style.

In absolutely no way am I saying wipe out the aggression because I liked going for it on 4th and 2 - though I didn't like the call, running behind an apparently nicked-up-in the-first-half Robert Gallery (I also really liked Danny's piece on Monday morning, so if you haven't read it, do here). But the whole getting "hormonal" and jamming it down their throat explanation...he said his coaches are supposed to help remind him in those types of situations about his past aggression and mishaps--Week 3 last season. I wish he would remember on his own. 

Carroll is nowhere near blind to the frustration surrounding this team. He said the Cleveland loss was one of those that can affect you in a bad way going forward, and the team had a "mechanism" for getting over a loss; Carroll noted he could see frustration and "pressing" against the Bengals. Given Red Bryant's headbutt late in Week 7 and Brandon Browner's body slam of a Bengals' receiver early in Week 8, I certainly won't argue that frustration is festering within this team.

Carroll said about the performance and, to an extent, the state of the team after the game; "It isn't a good place to be, but it's a good place to leave behind."  Last week I hoped the team could channel their frustration from the Cleveland loss into a strong week; instead it festered. On Monday, Carroll spoke of finding a way to channel the frustration correctly going forward. It sounds like they are on the right path, but as Carroll also noted let's take this one day at a time - I want to see it on Wednesday. 

Carroll admitted he has to help more and "not give us difficult situations by getting like I get sometimes." Carroll is all about maximizing abilities, not hindering them by mismanaging and putting his players in bad situations. Thus, hearing Carroll take responsibility for putting Charlie Whitehurst into a situation he wasn't comfortable in - referring to the usage of the no huddle - makes me believe Carroll is aware of his mistakes.

Heading into the season, the ability of the coaching staff to prepare and lead this young team was something I focused on; as Carroll believes leadership comes from the top down, could this coaching staff bring and keep this young locker room together, especially with all of the changes? Could they prevent a mid-season meltdown like we saw in 2010?

Unfortunately, here we are. That point in the season where "teams are going to turn," it's just a matter of in which direction. Carroll doesn't think his team is in a downward spiral, but I imagine some pundits have a differing opinion. I think this is a young team that is not playing to their potential and the season could go either way from here, especially depending on health at key positions. 

Seattle is preparing to play at Dallas, against a Cowboys team that got whopped on national TV. Dallas is going into this one with a "we've got to get better" attitude, too. 

Losing when you've given a strong, clean effort is one thing; not to take anything away from our mostly solid defense and other parts of this team, but Seattle isn't losing that way. They're losing because of mistakes and mishaps, by both the coaches and players. Carroll says of the week ahead; the coaching staff must observe which players are on the same page, and which are not. That should extend to the coaches, too. 

If leadership comes from the top down, it's on Carroll to get this team back to trusting their philosophy. He admitted on Monday he's not used to fighting out of situations like this, being 2-5--other than as part of the 2-5 team at USC in 2001-but he won't back off his vision for what this team can become.

Can Carroll get this young team believing that they must take responsibility for their own role before being successful as a unit; that each individuals' smaller mistakes can become more powerful than one individuals' strongest effort and the effort of the team? He can start by showing that philosophy holds true at the top, and it's time for the team to take responsibility and get back to simply buying in.

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The Seahawks went into the season with the goal of "owning the division."

Really?
Who thought that?

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Nov 1, 2011 4:25 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm pretty sure Pete Carroll did

or at least made winning the division again the team’s goal as it should be every year.

by Billy Showbiz on Nov 1, 2011 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not me

I figured the Rams would be at the top, though, so my prognostications are worthless.

by Buster! on Nov 1, 2011 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

eh, noone figured the 9ers would be this good

But I’m a huge homer/optimist that barely realized we weren’t winning the division on Sunday. I’ll settle for the wildcard spot though

by G-Mo on Nov 1, 2011 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Carroll did

As part of their yearly goal (as Billy said).

by Charlie Todaro on Nov 1, 2011 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

You read my mind.

The offense is completely discombobulated because of the QB carousel.

QBs are just any player, they’re THE player. When a team sees a QB change 4 times in three games like the Seahawks just have, you better believe the offense will be confused, annoyed and timid.

I say four times because: TJack goes down @ NYG, new starter (Charlie) @CLE, Charlie gets most 1st team reps before CIN and Seahawks.com names TJack the starter but Charlie starts @CIN, seven throws later TJack is in.

All the while, everything is happening behind a young, struggling o-line playing against two pretty good defenses (CLE, CIN).

The QB carousel is throwing the offense through a seriously challenging loop and things didn’t start to click until TJack had a few drives under his belt and guys started playing like their accustomed to playing: with the starter.

Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.

by Nick Andron on Nov 1, 2011 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Shit. Should read: "QBs aren't just any player"

Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.

by Nick Andron on Nov 1, 2011 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not really sure I'd call it a "carousel." I don't think the players read Seahawks.com before the CIN game and planned on T Jax starting

I assume they knew the plan all along. Granted, moving back and forth between Charlie and Jackson isn’t great for the offense, but it’s hardly a carousel. And I doubt the players are grumbling amidst themselves about why Carroll removed Whitehurst after 5 quarters of absolutely atrocious performance and put Jackson back in.

He’s said all along that Jackson is the starter. If the starter is capable of going, especially if the backup is blowing chunks, the starter goes. The team has to know that.

by HititHere on Nov 2, 2011 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't mean to just be contrary--what I'm saying is

…the offense is discombobulated because Charlie Whitehurst is bad, Tarvaris Jackson got basically 0 snaps in practice for at least 2 weeks, and the team played 2 good defenses. I don’t necessarily think it’s a statement about how universally bad our team is.

by HititHere on Nov 2, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

They've hit a rough patch, for sure

But that was almost inevitable with a team this young, especially considering the lack of a full training camp. They’ll get through it, they’ll develop, and they’ll work toward building better unity. It isn’t a huge surprise that this team is at 2-5; the only surprise was that one of the victories was over the Giants, which raised everyone’s expectations.

by Buster! on Nov 1, 2011 4:28 PM PDT reply actions  

it's year two in a rebuild

I also thought the Rams would “own” the division.

by montanamikey on Nov 1, 2011 4:42 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I think most of us did

But the NFL is an unpredictable place

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Nov 2, 2011 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Talent

I had low expectations for the season, I just did not see the talent and still don’t think we are there on offense. Need more experience and talent on the OL, below average at QB and HB.

Our WR and defense have surpassed my thoughts when the season began.

We flat out need more pieces, Ruskell really botched up things. I see the depth improving and a team that just needs a few more pieces and experience to be special.

The team plays hard, schemes are sound, an I love how Carroll goes for throat.

I think we will learn about our young guys this season and get the much needed QB next season

by Seahawcla on Nov 1, 2011 4:55 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I don't know about the rest of y'all but I find the team fun to watch again

I love big Brandon body slamming the enemy now & then and Kam Bam crackin’ heads in run support. Big Red, Bane and Branch stopping anything that moves up front is very cool. We have a stable of wide receivers that will make next years new rookie QB look like a veteran . A core of top pick O-linemen that will grow into a solid unit. What PC/JC have done so far hasn’t been perfect but dam close. Nit-pickers will always nit-pick. Pray for them for they know not what they do. GO SEAHAWKS!!!

by Richard fg7 on Nov 1, 2011 4:56 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd for truthiness

I tire of people looking at the Hawk’s situation in the short term and being so reactionary. There are some very good reasons to be optimistic about the Hawks’ future. I like what I’m seeing. While it would be nice to have the O-line and the running game gelling better at this point and the penalties decreasing, I’m more than happy with the progress so far. I’m even a bit excited to see what T-Jack does in the 2nd half of the season. I like that he’s taking his chance and doing what he can with it.

by bobbyj0708 on Nov 1, 2011 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought the O-Line would be further along after 7 games

Maybe it’s just the match-up against the league leading Defense (so far) but I thought our O-Line would be a tad better than this. I am not suggesting personnel/position changes, just saying that our LG and RT are pretty serious liabilities. Here we go, to Jerrys World and another tough match-up up-front.

I think our run game has taken a step back from last year.

Our special teams….

/nit-pick

by goatweed on Nov 1, 2011 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I understand

However, don’t forget the weird off-season that included no training camps, regular workouts, etc. We’ve got some young guys and some new guys that won’t gel as fast as we’d like this year due to those factors. I think they’ll get there.

by mwalter on Nov 1, 2011 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it really hurt them

Carpenter had to get in shape and play up to a 1st round pick’s standard with zero predating knowledge on what he’d be doing with the Hawks during the lockout. Like going out for a 16 week long calculus test with no preparation, just having played video games all summer long.

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 1, 2011 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

And carrying around an extra 25 lbs or so didn't help Carpenter either

And to keep up with your calculus metaphor…that would be like taking a calculus exam with fingers way to fat to hit the tiny buttons of a small calculator with any precision.

by KoolAidMan1 on Nov 1, 2011 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

this really speaks highly of

Doug Baldwin

Can't wait for the 2011 season to kick in.

I'm a one man rec'n crew

by jubelthebear on Nov 2, 2011 7:19 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

We're starting two rookies, a guy in his second year, and a guy in his third year

I think we should be doing better too, but when i think of that, then it puts things in perspective.

by B.B.Finnegan on Nov 1, 2011 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Two rookies, one second-year player, one third-year player

Along with a veteran. With no off-season, I’m not sure how much you could have expected, but I’ve noticed considerable progress since week 1, and with plenty of room for improvement, I feel good about where the O-line is headed for the long-term.

And I’m not sure if the run game took a step back this year, because it kinda stunk last year, too. Sometimes I wonder if Beast Quake gave people the false impression that the Seahawks had at least a solid run game.

by Carl Shinyama on Nov 2, 2011 12:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Dunno about anyone else

but at this point in the season, I feel like whenever TJack comes into the game, we have a chance at coming back. Probably just the last three/four weeks of his play rubbing off on me, but it just feels like the offense will be able to move under him. After a series or two. Which is better than Charlie, who lasted an entire game without moving the ball at all.

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 1, 2011 5:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Quarterback

I think most of the struggles over the past two weeks have been caused by Tarvaris Jackson’s injury. Obviously, the offense looked terrible against the Browns. It looked terrible for most of the first half against the Bengals. Once Jackson got his legs under him at the end of the first half, it looked considerably better. I think we can expect a signifantly improved performance against Dallas assuming Jackson is taking snaps with the first team all week. The run game is still miserable, but when was the last time it wasn’t? 2005?

by jeager on Nov 1, 2011 6:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, with TJ, they would have beaten the Browns

And the score might have been closer against the Bengals. A 3-4 record looks a lot better than 2-5.

by Nshima on Nov 1, 2011 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm actually feeling optimistic about how Pete has the team going.

I sorta expected the team to do poorly in stretches this year, in part due to all the changes, new players, etc and in part for lacking talent at key positions, but I also like seeing how the young guys are developing. I think Pete has the team on the right track, and that there’ll be a lot of these types of games this year, but I also think they’re further along than I would have expected in year two of a re-build.

by splintrdmind on Nov 1, 2011 7:09 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Hey !

We will be facing a team with 3, maybe even 4 kickers this Sunday ! Time for those Special teams to show up Pete.

by Mount&Groan on Nov 1, 2011 8:39 PM PDT reply actions  

I think Seahawk fans are being too critical

even the bengals fan thought we were dominating both sides of the field.

 the fact is we are a scary team to play ask ny. ask any team we are about to face. there will be alot of respect. we are an explosive team and a young, inexperienced and inconsistent team. its going to take time to work it out. we kept every game close and every game had moment we could have turned the tide.

losing isn’t so bad for this team because how we are losing. we lose near the end, we just haven’t been able to get over the hump. i think that’s fine. we are a much better team than last year. we are progressing and its easy to see that if you watch every game this year.

i think next year our team will mature enough to overcome the odds. right now it seems we are over anxious, inexperienced, and may are simply learning the speed of the game.

by genax on Nov 1, 2011 10:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Your post is fine, but in the future please use capitalization and grammar.

People here will take your opinions more seriously if you put effort into making them readable.

by Benne on Nov 1, 2011 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think you make some good points

But the one area I would disagree is where you say we are an explosive team. We do have a few playmakers (Rice, Leon Washington, Earl Thomas) but I think we are far from an explosive team. There aren’t many guys who you think can take it to the house every time he touches the ball. I think Baldwin could become that explosive player, but like you say, some of these young guys just aren’t consistent enough yet, but I have hope that they will get there…hopefully soon.

by KoolAidMan1 on Nov 1, 2011 10:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Not really, he's not that fast

He separates well though.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Nov 2, 2011 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is too much fluff for me

We lost two games, we’re not in a collapse with the team falling apart at the seams and players rebelling to the coaches. This doesn’t seem to be based on anything. “Get the team back to trusting his philosophy”? Give me one example indicated the team lost trust in his philosophy.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Nov 2, 2011 12:11 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

The team has bought in

We just need another year or two to develop the you guys, add a couple more key positions and continue to build depth.

they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!

by stufr on Nov 2, 2011 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

All signals point to the team having bought in

I don’t know what Charlie is basing it on that the team has recently started losing faith or anything. The only noise we’ve heard is from the outside and while I always protect people’s right to complain/criticize, that’s not exactly relevant to the team’s dynamics.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Nov 2, 2011 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

It’s actually more a case of, “Can Pete Carroll win back the fans?” And the answer to that is, of course he can. The team will have its ups and downs this year, but overall there are positive signs that he Seahawks are headed in the right direction. Some competitive play, a few more wins, and the majority of fans will be looking with some positivity toward the future.

by Buster! on Nov 2, 2011 2:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I read this and thought what??? I don't know if this guy knows what discombobulation is.

Certainly the offense could be better, but there is no evidence that this team is anything but “in” with the plan.

So this is what happens when you look at the 2-5 record first, and base all assumptions on that. Bring on the ESPN job application!

by Harvey Manfrengenson on Nov 2, 2011 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

The headline is particularly odd...

by making the statement that Carrol needs to bring the team back together, the implication is the team is falling apart or PC has lost the team; there is no evidence of that in the games, in any of the media outlets to which I pay attention, or even in this article. There are a few interesting thoughts in the article, but to frame them in some fictionalized inflammatory controversey is not up to the standards I have seen from other Fieldgulls authors. As a fairly avid Fieldgulls follower, I’d rather stuff like this not reach the front page.

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Nov 2, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think this is being taken as the team is falling apart and in complete chaos...

When I was posing the question can Carroll get the team turned around for this season. As I said, I think it could go either way.

In the grand scheme, in no way am I saying Carroll should be under fire or on a hot seat. Far from it. But when a coach openly states the goal is to own the division and then starts 2-5 (for whatever reasons) there will be some backlash.

The team hasn’t shown outward evidence of “buying out,” but they need to stick together. The Browner body slam and Red headbutt two weeks in a row I don’t think is something PC advocates. The team is not falling apart, but they certainly aren’t winning. Too harsh maybe, but I think this team is better than the record. Can they prove it?

by Charlie Todaro on Nov 2, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Fair response, thanks. But I certainly didn't read that in the article.

Maybe “(How) Can Carroll convince us the Hawks are better than their 2-5 record?” or “What Carroll needs can do to prove the Hawks are better than their record?” would be better headlines.

I still might argue that the team does not need to be turned around, but rather continually nudged back into the correct lane. To me it seems like the players and coaches are all on the same page, that this is a really tough year for a team with as many new, young, and inexperienced parts to win a lot of games. Success is graded by doing the right things more often week to week, mastering more plays in the playbook, working better at your individual assignment, and working with the player next to you, and being competitive from the first to the last whistle. Sometimes there are failures in these areas, but overall I think we see improvement. Red and Browner are not signs of a team falling apart, but moments of frustration or anger, and there is nothing to suggest there is a pattern developing throughout the team.

The headline is the first thing people read, and immediately gives us bias as every subsequent sentence will be shaded with by the implications of your headlines. My constructive criticism would be that I think you can write headlines that more accurately detail what we expect to read in the article, but still draw interest. While it might just take a little more time and thought, the reward of having a more consistent piece(from headline to argument to conclusion) is more appreciative and educated readers. Thanks for ongoing contributions even if I personally didn’t dig this one.

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Nov 2, 2011 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

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