Word of Muth: Seahawk Squadron
Ben Muth is back with more analysis of your Seahawk offensive line. He has high praise for the left side of the line. Not so much for the right.
7 months ago
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Surprised he's that positive on Gallery
But an excellent read as usual.
Man I hope Carpenter gets to improving already.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
Hated the Carpenter pick on draft day
Thought it might turn out okay when he showed some stuff in the first couple weeks. Now I just get depressed when I see him on the field, and it looks like Muth more or less concurs.
He could still improve, that’s the silver lining. Moffit really has improved though, and that’s nice to see.
I'll note something
Okung is 25. So are Unger and Moffitt. Carpenter is 22. He’s still got a lot of time to develop skills.
And there’s always the chance that the ‘Hawks move him inside to guard. That’s what turned Robert Gallery from a so-so lineman into a solid player. They’d have to go out and find a new RT, then, but that would allow them to get something from Carpenter if he doesn’t work out at RT.
There’s talent on this offensive line, and it’s mostly young talent.
Totally agree.
But Carpenter was a first round pick, and you’d LIKE to see a first rounder come in and perform right away. Especially if a lot of the narrative about the pick uses words like “reach” and “overdrafted”.
But the dude is still young. Can absolutely still improve, I am perfectly willing (and happy!) to concede that. I just wonder if there’s a certain point where getting overmatched repeatedly starts to damage the psyche of a 22 year old, which is more of what I mean when I say I’m depressed when I see him on the field. Depressed was probably the wrong word. Worried?
You can definitely draft a guy in the first round and say "Wow, this guy is going to be a beast in three years" knowing that there's a learning curve.
The bigger problem might have been slotting him as the starter from day one.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Nov 10, 2011 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
Who, Carpenter?
It’s not like we had that many options.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Nov 10, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know what options were available in free agency. I know good offensive lineman are hard to find.
It’s definitely a luxury to say, “we drafted you in the first round, but you don’t have to start right away,” its just a luxury that I think would have been nice to have. Since we had no veterans to fill in for RT, then yes, we did not have many options.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Nov 10, 2011 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Carpenter didn't get the offseason workouts
And I think that might have hurt him more than any other Seahawk. I’d like to wait and reserve judgement until next year. If he comes out playing horribly next year, or doesn’t make the starting lineup, then I think we need to reconsider.
But given the short off-season and Carpenter’s still relatively-young age, I think we just need to give him time to develop.
And I think conditioning was actually a problem for him this offseason?
I’m sure it was a hard situation. Would love to see him show some real distinct improvement down the line this season, but I’m expecting better from him starting in the preseason 2012 for sure. We all should be, I think.
The one thing I'm wondering now is, if his run-blocking is suspect (wasn't that his strength in college?)
then wouldn’t he be a bad choice for a guard? As far as I’m aware, it’s more important to have a run-blocking guard than a pass-blocking guard, since they can get more help in pass pro.
by Matt Erickson on Nov 11, 2011 5:10 AM PST up reply actions
I think we all watched Gallery get pancaked on Sunday
On that one play by DeMarcus Ware, and that was the one thing that stuck out about him. Ware made a terrific play and caught Gallery off guard. Gallery had some good play beyond that one huge mistake, though. Muth notes that in the column.
I haven't gone back to stare at the O-line and I can't analyse them without putting in time
But the thing is I have done so for other games and Gallery consistently underwhelmed. It’s nice to hear he’s not anymore, or that I was simply wrong
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Nov 10, 2011 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Based on what Muth is saying, the injury story seems to match up with his play.
A lot of improvement, which makes sense. I can’t imagine blocking NFL defensive linemen with a core injury. I can’t imagine doing anything at a high level with one, and while I didn’t get to see the game…the numbers for Marshawn and the comments from Muth have me optimistic.
Looks like Carpenter is the only one to truly worry about for next year’s offensive line, with Moffitt even showing some improvement. I’d consider that a stark improvement to the way we’ve had to worry about who plays every position the past two years.
You weren't wrong.
Maybe Gallery was better this week. I haven’t yet caught the Cowboys game. Although I am not terribly motivated to go back and check it out.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Nov 10, 2011 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
He knows more than I ever will about O-line play
But for all the talk of his every-down fundamentals and impeccable technique, I sure see Gallery looking…lost, overmatched, ineffective? a lot.
If I were to re-watch the game, I'd just want to watch every play that was run to the left side, and focus on Gallery, and then make a judgment.
It’s hard to point out positives he did on gains of 5 and 6 on the ground, but EVERYBODY saw him get pancaked.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Nov 10, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
I say that without even taking that pancake into account.
I scouted him all throughout the preseason and I watch him as closely as possible when the camera angles allow. To my untrained eye he’s been up and down in run blocking and flat out terrible in pass pro.
On the other hand I’m a dumb stupid idiot.
Hey, don't say that! That's not true!
The first part I mean, the part about Robert Gallery. That part is not true.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Nov 10, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Gallery getting pancaked lended to my thinking he was playing absolutely horrible.
Glad to see someone with the chops to analyze players proved me wrong. Let’s hope Carpenter can improve after a shaky rookie campaign. I remember thinking Unger would never develop…
The observation about Seattle really liking running behind Gallery
makes that inside zone run where the unassigned defender was right over the B gap Lynch ran through despite the lane between McCoy and Carpenter looking effective to get a good 5 yards or more on the right side — makes the result of Lynch going to Gallery’s gap make more sense. Might not have been an actual inside zone, but a called blast where the assignments were about the same as inside zone.
Head of catering.
It's pretty cool that the Seahawks have enough confidence in Lynch
That they don’t care if there’s an unassigned defender in the second level. I guess the theory is as long as the O-line does its job, Lynch can power through that defender for at least three yards. If the O-line messes up though, Lynch gets blown up in the backfield. I suspect that as the O-line improves, we’ll see a LOT more running.
Some lofty praise from The Less Offensive of Two Harbaughs
"Obviously, it starts with Marshawn. He’s definitely a Top 2 or 3 running back in the National Football League. He’s a violent runner. You go back and look at that playoff game against the Saints last year when he took the game over with his running style. It’s just incredible."
YES PEOPLE THIS IS A REAL QUOTE FROM JOHN HARBAUGH.
I didn’t believe it until I googled it and read it myself. I wouldn’t put Lynch that high myself but obviously John Harbaugh knows a little more about football than I do. Maybe he would trade us Ray Rice straight up. On another note sorry Beastmode. First I underestimate you, then I try to trade you away.
I wonder if he's talking fantasy terms, he is an RB2 or RB3, which puts him in the 13-37 range
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
because he is not #2 or #3 by a long shot
AP, Blount, Turner, Hillis (when healthy) are all much more violent than Lynch. There are at least 10 RBs who are better across the board than Lynch. Although I think it’s fair to argue that Lynch is one of the top 3 backs if you are only considering how hard it is to take him down after he is wrapped up.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
This is very apt. It makes a lot of sense.
You assume Lynch can power through a defender to get a few yards after first contact—so the line doesn’t have to be that good. They don’t need a lot of push, they just need to be good enough to avoid letting defenders nail Lynch in the backfield.
Maybe we’re reaching a point where the line has gelled enough to avoid letting very many defenders into the backfield, even if you wouldn’t call them “good.” Just “not terrible” is good enough for a power back without a high top gear, like Lynch.
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