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Seahawks Lose to Redskins: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly From a Disheartening Defeat

SEATTLE - NOVEMBER 27:  Head coach Pete Carroll of the Seattle Seahawks looks on from the sidelines against the Washington Redskins at CenturyLink Field on November 27, 2011 in Seattle, Washington. The Redskins defeated the Seahawks 23-17..(Photo by Otto Greule Jr/Getty Images)

Instead of capitalizing on the opportunity to validate the win in St. Louis and increase the winning streak to three, Seattle shot themselves in the foot and blew a 10 point fourth quarter lead en route to a 23-17 home loss.

I feel it's relevant to mention I was at the game and most of my thoughts are based on what I saw in person, and therefore my views aren't coming from the perspective revealed through the broadcast. In fact, I haven't watched any of the TV broadcast, so this could be interesting. I don't know exactly what my "bias" means or how it affects this recap. Maybe it matters, maybe not. Just to even things out, I'll be extra honest this week if I come across something that changes my mind on a play/opinion, one way or another. Here we go.

Even before I learned the following tidbit, I thought the pre coin toss tussle was the Redskins' attempt at setting the tone ASAP; Softy Mahler tweeted that Doug Baldwin said the ill feelings started due to the Redskins' pregame warm-up.  Losers of six in row, Washington didn't come into this one with anything to lose. Why not try and bully the Seahawks in what's supposed to be a rough road environment to play in as it is?

A fellow who I sat next to for a couple of games this season, though not for this one, previously told me he thought road teams had been trying to land a psychological first blow and get under the Seahawks' skin before the kick or early in the game. Though the fans got fired up after the tussle, his sentiments crossed my mind. Now that Seattle blew this game, in retrospect his comments have me wondering if/ how much the ‘Skins got under Seattle's skin early. (At least enough so that Michael Robinson was apologetic to the team post game...)

Fast forward to when the Hawks were up three early in the third quarter with the Redskins backed up inside their own five; this looked like one of those games for the defense to win. One of those games Pete Carroll hopes his defense can take control of - similar to how it happened last week, against a "lesser" opponent.  

To be honest, this point was the first time I personally thought the crowd got loud during this game - the Redskins walked away from this one with zero false starts and two delay of game penalties. The point; Brandon Mebane was standing over the ball during the TV timeout pounding his chest as a Redskins' receiver (I think Santana Moss, not 100% sure) was in the end zone mocking the crowd to get loud. It was time for the Seahawks to put up or shut up.

Almost a quarter later, the Seahawks were in position to win the game after executing a 12 play, 88 yard touchdown drive. For a team that simply wants to be in every game so they have a chance in the fourth quarter, this was a pretty good opportunity and seemingly one Seattle would close. 

Star-divide

Instead, the defense came out lacking the intensity and consistency to protect their 10 point lead. The Redskins called five pass plays in a row and then on 3rd and 2, the first running play of the drive; Roy Helu hurdled Roy Lewis, bounced off a botched Kam tackle and trotted into the endzone.  On the next defensive possession it looked like they could hold, until a 3rd and 19 Rex Grossman bomb knocked the wind out of the stadium. Unfortunately, Breno Giacomini's penalty started Seattle's next drive, and it kind of felt like the beginning of the nail being hammered into the coffin. The stands were nearly empty when the final kickoff went out of the endzone.

Now Seattle is back to "square one" heading into the short week and Thursday matchup with Philadelphia, game two of the three game home stand. One thing I'm sensing is an upcoming theme of "accountability." Is Carroll optimistic, irked, or somewhere in the middle? Based on Carroll's post game comments, it sounds like anything goes (to an extent) with playing time going forward. Are any changes coming?  

This is not how most of us hoped the home stand would start. The hype and hope because of the circumstances now mostly gone, and unfortunately their playoff "chances" may not be far behind. It's up to this coaching staff and team to rebound this week if they don't want to officially drop out of the race.  

No more commentary, onto the good, bad, and ugly from this week.  

The Good

-The Seahawks had fewer penalties than their opponent, by one. I'm pretty sure this is the first time this has happened all season.

-Another strong day by Marshawn Lynch (24 for 111), who appeared to suffer some sort of upper leg/groin injury in the first half and proceeded to play through it (maybe this was clarified on TV). He did appear to miss some holes, but also had a few nice runs. Gotta' love the 20-plus passing play for the touchdown out of the backfield, too.

-Seahawks' corners had two interceptions and four passes defended - an Earl Thomas PD was negated by an accepted penalty, and Kam Chancellor was unable to cash in on an interception opportunity. From afar, Browner looked physically dominant when making his interception. He's tall.  

-Speaking of physically dominant; Red Bryant's two blocked kicks were frickin' awesome. Watching the behemoth high-step and celebrate towards the Seattle bench after both plays, priceless. It looked like he almost blocked a third?

-John Ryan put four of the six punts inside the 20 yard line, and had a long of 67. He continues to be a stud.

-Leon Washington averaged 43 per kickoff return, and the return team opened the gigantic hole well before he got to the opening on his 51 yard return.

-Doug Baldwin had five catches (on 10 targets) for 60 yards. He maybe could have made a crucial third down catch in the fourth quarter if the Redskins defender didn't whack him in the helmet, a crucial no call. Seahawks receivers other than Baldwin had 12 targets total for the day. Consider him the bright spot on a dismal day for this receiving corps.

-Seattle won the turnover battle. 

-Thomas gave props to the offensive line yesterday in his game recap. Paul McQuistan leading out in front on the Lynch swing is a play that stood out to me in real time. There were a couple of other strong plays that I remember from this group. For a unit that could be in disarray given the recent injuries, this was a solid game in my opinion.  

The Bad

-The Redskins scored 16 unanswered in the 4th quarter to come back and win the game at Seattle. That was painful to type.

-Kam Chancellor missed a tackle on the Fred Davis 31 yard catch and run early in the game and then again on the Roy Helu touchdown run. Both were crucial plays. You have to wonder if the fines and penalties are beginning to affect his play.

-Jackson averaged 4.8 yards per pass attempt, compared to a sliver under 9 for Grossman. Gross on a couple levels; the Seahawks' inability to generate passing offense and inconsistent defense which allowed 416 total yards.

-Drops. The main culprit was Mike Williams, who was not out there towards the end of the game due to a shoulder injury. But, this game will be remembered because of his mishaps. A dropped, on target back shoulder throw on third down early in the game, he was unable to haul in another intermediate/deepish jump-ball when he had inside position, and he dropped a Jackson deep ball (which drew an egregious PI). Not the year we all hoped BMW would have. Baldwin and Miller had one drop each.

-The Seahawks had two plays over 20 yards, none over 25. No, the 44 yard gift of the PI call against Josh Wilson doesn't count.

-Brandon Browner's penalties. 

-Jackson looked shell-shocked in the end of that game. The ‘Skins showed their hand when they pressured and that didn't even matter. "Adjustments" made at the line didn't appear to help. I wasn't a huge fan of the play calling, but this is more about the end of game execution as a whole. This was both bad and ugly.

The Ugly

-More apologizing; Golden Tate for not knowing his going-to-the-ground celebration was a penalty.

-We may have won the penalty "battle," by nine is still too many.

-Breno Giacomini's unnecessary roughness penalty at the end of the first half (it was declined); I saw him start to run towards the pile and was flummoxed when he jumped into the fray for no reason. To sum up the last three thoughts; C'Mon, Man!

-In my opinion, the Seahawks really missed Alan Branch.

-An observation; it seems when the Seahawks don't run a lot of no huddle, they struggle in hurry-up situations; but when they run the no huddle often, they can score more quickly and run the hurry-up a bit better. Watching the offensive struggles at the end of the halves in this game reminded me of early in the season, and that's not a good thing.

-Sidney Rice and his continued fragility.

-Washington's 14 play, 7:49 drive to start the game was absolutely brutal. They established both the run and play action game right away, attacked the flats and as Thomas noted, seemed to out-scheme and outcall the defense. Even though Seattle scored the next 17 points, this drive showed Washington they could move the ball and I think that helped them in the end.

-Another observation; the Seahawks went two wide with Tate and Miller and ran it, a lot. I started calling this ground and pound mode about midway through the third quarter.

-I received multiple texts during the game that on the broadcast, Jackson looked like he was hurting badly. He didn't look completely right to me from afar either, but maybe my knowing he was in pain influenced me? He had a heavy practice on Friday, his second full Friday this month. Could that have played a role in his discomfort?

-According to Carroll, the tight ends didn't hear the call before Hauschka's missed 51 yard attempt, and they "iced" him by calling a necessary timeout as they had too few on the field. 

That's all I've got for now, but we'll have more in the short week ahead. (Danny will be back, too.)

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fwiw

After pre-game warmups, the Redskins captains (they’ve been doing this for years home and away) meet at midfield and do a huddle for a speech to motivate themselves with the team…led by London Fletcher. Some SEA players took that as stomping on/disrespecting the Seahawks logo. Either way, DHall was there and it’s not hard to rile that guy up and things snowballed from there.

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you’re not, in fact, surrounded by assholes." - William Gibson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 28, 2011 7:38 AM PST reply actions  

Huh

weird. It definitely continued all game, I mean, Ben Obomanu who’s normally extremely laid back was fired up too. Yesterday was definitely weird. Felt like a rivalry game against a divisional opponent, not…a game that happens once every two years ish. Congrats on the win, best of luck in the future, we’ll try and knock off Philly for you on Thursday.

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 28, 2011 8:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks….at this point I’m rooting for Philly to win so they have a worse draft position than the Redskins. Although watching Eagles fans reactions to loss never gets old, and this guy too.

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you’re not, in fact, surrounded by assholes." - William Gibson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 28, 2011 8:46 AM PST up reply actions  

hehehe

“I heard you calling for number five earlier”
“at least number five DOESN’T THROW INTERCEPTIONS rageface
That reporter was pretty good looking, too, like a poor man’s Kristianna Loken

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 28, 2011 8:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Also

did you guys see Vince Young’s stat line? He had 400 yds passing against NE. I don’t know how much of that is in garbage time, but that’s crazy. I know NE hasn’t had great defenses lately, but still, that’s absurd.

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 28, 2011 8:35 AM PST reply actions  

Do we want Young or Vick?

Whoever plays, it’s going to be a tough game.

by Nshima on Nov 28, 2011 8:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Young

in my eyes, he’s never shown consistency, so I want to face him. However, both are run-able QBs, and we tend to have a problem with that, because we either play the pass or play the run, never somewhere in between. I don’t have high hopes for Thursday, but I’d rather face Young.

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 28, 2011 8:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Hawthorne, Hill and Wright

seem to want to jump early when they think it’s a run. It looks awesome when it works with all the blue swarming to the ball. Yesterday, though, it looked like the Redskins could set up our linebackers with a couple of sweeps one way and then a bootleg to the other side. Nobody home to pick up the receiver in the flat. Maybe that’s on the cornerbacks too. I’d be happy to pile some more blame on Browner for yesterday.

Ah, hello my slow fat fingers say to Lord Humongous
-Kingdomer

by EthelGemerman on Nov 28, 2011 9:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Pats have the worst defense in the NFL.

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you’re not, in fact, surrounded by assholes." - William Gibson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 28, 2011 8:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Seriously?

Wow.

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 28, 2011 8:53 AM PST up reply actions  

They don't use it over at Bleeding Green Nation

I saw we let it slide for a couple days, I’m using the subject line over there anyways

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 28, 2011 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Never mind...

stupid old me…

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 28, 2011 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

We use the subject line too, but it’s not a big deal if you don’t use it. For a comment like this, there’s nothing really deserving of a subject.

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you’re not, in fact, surrounded by assholes." - William Gibson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 28, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

ok

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you’re not, in fact, surrounded by assholes." - William Gibson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 28, 2011 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

It just makes it easier for the mods to search for specific posts by subject line

if they need to, rather than searching in the text itself.

"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan

"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"

by Clendy on Nov 28, 2011 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Curious, not rocking the boat <--- (you might notice that this is a subject line)

I know the Field Gulls protocol on this is well established, but it would also make sense to have subject lines contain an actual subject rather than simply the first few words of a single sentence remark.

I really like the emphasis here on grammar, intelligence, respect, and having some class. I get it. But in some cases doesn’t requiring a subject line actually result in less meaningful subject/comment syntax? Or is the main purpose of the rule aesthetic?

It was just intense, and it was ball, and it was juice. The juice level in that room was high, and it was awesome.

by mister bunny on Nov 28, 2011 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

It ensures you can minimize a comment

Which is critical when you’re talking about posts that are NSFW, large pictures sucking up CPU power, etc.

by HititHere on Nov 28, 2011 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I love it because

choosing when to break it off and jump to the body can add so much to the way a post reads.

by jhmg16 on Nov 28, 2011 6:58 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This.

Add this to our “subject line rationale” t-shirt

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."

by shams on Nov 28, 2011 8:56 PM PST up reply actions  

How the hell is Tarvaris going to be ready for Thursday?

He was obviously in pain half way through the game.

Let’s hope Lynch is up for another huge load of carries, because we’ll likely have to win on the ground if we want to have a chance.

Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.

by Nick Andron on Nov 28, 2011 9:06 AM PST reply actions  

The answer:

hydromorphone….

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Nov 28, 2011 9:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Time to give the Whitehorse another ride.

If for no other reason than to keep TJax healthy….the Seahawks are not going to make the playoffs this year, so we might as well give guys like Whitehurst and Golden Tate more playing time. We are not going to “stunt” the growth of Tarvaris Jackson and Sidney Rice if we bench them for a game (or two) to prevent more injuries. Continuing to play those two is just running down the clock until they INEVITABLY hit the IR.

Also, if we’re going to play Tate more, we have to realize he is not your ordinary kind of receiver, and learn how to throw a screen pass to exploit his gifts (and it wouldn’t hurt if our defense learned how to defend the screen, as well). It’s obvious TJax is only comfortable throwing the ball 20+ yards down the field, but if we put Whitehurst into the game (and he will see the field again, like it or not) we need to make some changes. Drawing up a decent screen would be nice.

by J.L. White on Nov 28, 2011 9:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Something to add to 'The Good' column:

We negated their pass rush pretty well. Considering the Redskins were in a three-way tie for first place for sacks in the league, only giving up a few was pretty impressive.

Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.

by Nick Andron on Nov 28, 2011 9:26 AM PST reply actions  

I thought the o-line play was really good.

Plenty of time to throw on most attempts and the run blocking seemed especially good. I would say Tjax is responsible for the quick pressure when the Redskins brought the house.

by brugg on Nov 28, 2011 10:19 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

The Ugly: THE QB POSITION

anyone who still defendsT jax just doesn’t get it. The hawks this year have had a chance for a game tying/winning drive in 5 of thier 7 losses. The only time they’ve come close was against atlanta and even then T Jax threw some terrible passes.

Everytime the game is on the line and we get the ball, I know we have no chance of moving down the field. We did it once against the Giants and even that was clipboard Jesus.

Pass protection has improved every week so I don’t want to hear that excuse.

The pec seems to bother him alot more when he throw balls that should be intercepted (and by the way he throws up atleast 1 of those a game, hawks are so fortunate T Jax does’t have 20 ints this year)

Bad recievers, I guess that BMW and Zach Miller can’t play football anymore. The fact that T Jax threw for 4 yards per play is such a telling statistic, walk four steps infront of you then think about a pro offense trying to win a game.

Fuck mechanics, Fuck a good attitude, Fuck a likable guy, T Jax can’t win a game!! And I am kind of happy to lose this game because until we get a winner behind center, we’ll always be a middle of the pack .500 team, and that sucks.

by steverolley on Nov 28, 2011 9:56 AM PST reply actions  

Well... remember, the TJack support isn't necessarily about TJack so much as

a “lesser of two evils” argument between TJack and Charlie Whitehurst. I think, at this point, we should all be fairly well convinced that Whitehurst isn’t better than Jackson by any means.

I don’t think you’re going to find a single Jackson supporter on this board who thinks he’s “the answer” going forward. We ALL want a better quarterback, but he’s the best we got right now.

Fans are typically idiots.

by The Typical Idiot Fan on Nov 28, 2011 10:04 AM PST up reply actions  

You couldn't be more wrong about Zach Miller.

Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.

by Nick Andron on Nov 28, 2011 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

That's the way I read it too

but it’s a huge stretch to say that BMW’s lack of production rests on TJ’s shoulders. The guy had like 3 pretty big drops yesterday alone.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Nov 28, 2011 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

He was so bad yesterday.

But Miller has had a problem with drops too. I wonder if being sporadically involved in the passing offense makes it’s harder for receivers to consistently catch the ball. Carlson might have had similar issues.

by Nate Dogg on Nov 28, 2011 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Yesterday was bad for them but

Like Nate Dogg I think it has alot to do with not being involved for 10 games. BMW especially is a guy who gets in a rhythm with his catches. He’s a guy who needs to have like 10 catches for 80 yards rather than 1 for 60, if that makes any sense

by steverolley on Nov 28, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

If he got open and caught the ball

then BMW would get more throws in his direction. He has a hard time getting separation. He probably should be running crossing patterns in the middle of the field and taking the hits. That’s a tough position but that is what he is built for.

by AlaskaHawk on Nov 28, 2011 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

It was sarcasm

I love miller, his blocking has been a major benefit to a growing o line

by steverolley on Nov 28, 2011 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Well shit. Now that I read it again, I can totally see it.

Sigh. Wake up, Nick.

Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.

by Nick Andron on Nov 28, 2011 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Zach Miller might as well be the 6th lineman on many plays.

His blocking is down right devastating. He seems to be so good at blocking they just keep him in on most pass plays to shore up the right side, and judging from the lack of pressure on Tjax it’s working.

by brugg on Nov 28, 2011 10:24 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Agreed

his play on the line has covered up so many mistakes by the young guys

by steverolley on Nov 28, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

It's a team effort

That game was winnable if:
The defense had held in the 4th quarter.
The cornerbacks would look for the ball once in awhile.
The defensive line hadn’t got tired, we need young backups.

TJs receivers would have held onto the ball.
The coach had called better plays at the end of the game when 8 defensive men were rushing. Were they just throwing meat to wolves??? WTF where was the quick pass up the middle?
The offensive line had held the defense off TJ longer/ or blocked better for Lynch.

by AlaskaHawk on Nov 28, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Browner!

I just couldn’t believe the replay of that touchdown! He was hip to hip with the receiver and all he had to do was look back. Sherman actually had another outstanding game.

Ah, hello my slow fat fingers say to Lord Humongous
-Kingdomer

by EthelGemerman on Nov 28, 2011 12:09 PM PST up reply actions  

TJax is hurt and still the best QB on the team

The putting the game away drive against the Rams was impressive, where he completed those tough passes to Tate. Look, he’s not a great QB, the team knows this we know this, he was signed for a two year contract and is no way the future. I think everyone pretty much understands this.

by B.B.Finnegan on Nov 28, 2011 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

There should be a disclaimer that says this on the front page.

All of my posts are in context of this disclaimer. We shouldn’t have to restate it before every fucking post that is mildly complimentary of Jackson.

by jhmg16 on Nov 28, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Redskins did everything they could to hand that game to Seattle.

But the Seahawks weren’t having any of that. Oh well, every win is hope for the future, every loss is draft position…..always see the beer mug as half full. Of Zima.

by Michael Harp on Nov 28, 2011 10:36 AM PST reply actions  

T-Jack

did look injured in the game but does it affect his ability to see an 8 men on the line blitz coming at him? I have not played footbal since 9th grade, never played QB and even I saw THOSE blitzes coming.

by Michael Harp on Nov 28, 2011 10:44 AM PST reply actions  

He was supposed to see them coming.

They were showing blitz. This has rattled him all year long and I’m sure they noticed that on tape.

by jhmg16 on Nov 28, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Where were the receivers?

It’s up to them to be open during the blitz.

by AlaskaHawk on Nov 28, 2011 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Hard to tell if they were open or not on TV.

Maybe they were, maybe they weren’t, maybe TJack should’ve audibled, maybe he’s not allowed to.

by Nate Dogg on Nov 28, 2011 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

We couldn't see the receivers on TV...

because the camera was focused 10 yards behind LOS on Tjax continuing to backpedal.

by central_scrutinizer on Nov 28, 2011 11:27 PM PST up reply actions  

That blitz call was an encapsulation of the whole game;

Everyone messed up. TJax didn’t adjust properly, or execute if he did make the right call, the line protection left an inside blitzer free, and WRs didn’t help their QB when he needed it. On the last one it looked like the far right WR took a step out and then tried to cut in but ran into the corner who knew what routes needed defending. Not sure if there was a slot to that side, but I think TJax looked right first. If the outside WR was his hot read, he was screwed. Plus, some of this was on the coaches putting them in a bad situation. Had they not gone over this situation and come up with a counter? Was the free inside rusher by design? Did they not address this at halftime?

by Zach81 on Nov 28, 2011 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Shows you how much the Redskins respect T-Jack...

When was the last time you saw a team stack 8 in the box late in the game… not just a bad read by the QB, the receivers also, the 3 receivers all ran outside goes giving the DBs an easy opportunity to cover them. Manning, Brady, Brees, any QB worth his salt (Barkley) would have audibled to a quick slant. A quick slant to Baldwin in the slot, 1 broken tackle and the play could have gone for 80 and a TD.

DOUG F'N BALDWIN!!! Too bad we can't give him #80!

by oldschoolhawk on Nov 28, 2011 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd be interested to see if the Redskins stack the box and blitz like that alot.

They definitely have the ends to blow you up a lot quicker than most defenses and the corners to handle the quick slant route.

Ah, hello my slow fat fingers say to Lord Humongous
-Kingdomer

by EthelGemerman on Nov 28, 2011 12:12 PM PST up reply actions  

We blitz like that a lot. We did an all out blitz vs Dallas in OT and Romo was able to buy time and get the ball to Dez to setup the FG unit for the win. Haslett called that earlier in the game a couple times and it worked.

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you’re not, in fact, surrounded by assholes." - William Gibson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 28, 2011 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Posted from the other (dead) thread...

Bill Simmons (aka Sport Guy) once wrote about Pats-Broncos 1986 Divisional Playoff Game where Rulon Jones came in unblocked to sack Tony Eason for a safety that iced the game for Denver as the moment when he knew Eason would never win the Pats a Super Bowl.

Honestly, I’ve gone back and forth in my mind with Tarvaris. I once wrote a two-word review of why the Vikings wouldn’t win the Super Bowl as "Tarvaris Jackson", but when he came here, I was both wanting to talk myself into him and aware that I was trying to talk myself into him.

I would place Jackson in a similar class as Rex Grossman, Jon Kitna, and probably Tony Eason (among others), as a QB who can play in the NFL well enough to warrant a paycheck – but as a backup or emergency starter.

I like plucky, high-effort ‘Bill Bates’ types, but yesterday – which was by no means TJ’s worst game as a pro or even as a ’Hawk (guys catch some passes that were there and this is a win) – the final nail went in the coffin, like for Simmons with Eason as he (and T-Jack) collapsed into the fetal position in the face of a defender in a critical situation.

I would have preferred TJ have thrown an interception returned for a TD on the fourth down than just hold it as the pocket collapsed around him. Did it happen fast? Sure, but not fast enough that he couldn’t have thrown a prayer. In that moment a sack means game over, Seahawks lose. Period. A fumble is a better option. A lot’s been made of the ‘Hawks players’ faith in Jackson, but I wonder if he has faith in them sometimes.

He reminded me of Adam Goldberg getting stabbed in Saving Private Ryan, “wait, wait, WAIT! Listen to me. Listen to me!” The German didn’t wait and neither will bloodthirsty passrushers. A QB needs to have that thing. There are so many times, in my mind’s eye, when I see a passrusher bearing down on Tarvaris that he just peels away and rolls out or slides away from pressure or throws it away… only he doesn’t.

Tarvaris is not the guy, will never be the guy. Not for the Seahawks nor anyone else. He’s the best we have right now, and that buys us the weekly frustration of mediocrity. There should be a plan – or at least a plan for a plan – that goes through great pains to avoid TJ being next year’s week one starter.

Apologees for length.

Most of my cliches aren't original.

- Chuck Knox

by Azimeir on Nov 28, 2011 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

And for misspelling "apologies".

Most of my cliches aren't original.

- Chuck Knox

by Azimeir on Nov 28, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

You had me at "He's not the guy"

I guess you are just venting! However, planning for a TJ less team doesn’t really help that much when the rest of the team has a TJ like performance. There are a lot of needs for the hawks. At least 3 more drafts to having a great team.

by AlaskaHawk on Nov 28, 2011 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Not really venting...

Just a collection of my overall thoughts about Tarvaris Jackson. It’s not the errant throws that bother me; it’s taking a sack in a moment when there’s no excuse to take a sack. That shows a lack of knowing the situation and/or the impulse to do anything other than just lose.

“In a fight, doing something productive immediately is better than doing the perfect thing a minute later.”
 - Robert Heinlein

Most of my cliches aren't original.

- Chuck Knox

by Azimeir on Nov 28, 2011 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

No team is "3 drafts away" from being a great team.

Because it is impossible to have 53 all-pros on your roster, every team has about 20-30 completely fungible players that can be mixed and matched (and usually are) with any other team in the league. It is possible that the Seahawks are just a above-average QB (and a good 3-tech DT) away from contention; the biggest obstacle for the Seahawks right now is time; we’re too young right now, and there’s a reason why so many of our young players weren’t drafted in the 1st round. Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman are awesome, but there are some players that are ready for the pros on Day One, and some that are not.

Patience with what we have will be more beneficial to our future success than a bunch of 1st rounders with name recognition.

by J.L. White on Nov 28, 2011 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Very, very well stated.

Nice job.

Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.

by Nick Andron on Nov 28, 2011 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't blame TJ

We knew what we were getting. And the whole team played crappy in the 4th quarter, not just TJ. But if your so mad at him, we my as well try Portus out at QB. I haven’t seen him get sacked yet.

by AlaskaHawk on Nov 28, 2011 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not mad.

Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.

by Nick Andron on Nov 28, 2011 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I would add pass rush to the bad

Other then Clemons, Seattle is horrible at pass rush, and having just one pass rusher makes it easier for the other team to shut him down.

Team needs in the offseason: QB, Pash rusher. Everything needs to go into those two positions.

by B.B.Finnegan on Nov 28, 2011 11:16 AM PST reply actions  

This is how I get over a loss

we can finish low enough that we don’t have to trade up in the draft, use our 1st on a qb and our 2nd on a pass rushing de and have the cap space left to add some depth at lb/Ol/cb

by steverolley on Nov 28, 2011 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

I thought it was clear from what he was grabbing...

That Lynch got hit in the pills, nuts, balls, cajones, testicles, coinpurse, bollocks, etc.

Most of my cliches aren't original.

- Chuck Knox

by Azimeir on Nov 28, 2011 11:25 AM PST reply actions  

Trading Clipboard Jesus!!

Do you think there’s a chanch that the seahawks can unload Clipboard Jesus to the texans for a draft pick! God knows the texans will take ANYBODY at this point!!!

by Shawman075 on Nov 28, 2011 11:39 AM PST reply actions  

Maybe the Raiders would pick him up

They seem to collect QBs like other people collect Pogs.

"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan

"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"

by Clendy on Nov 28, 2011 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Lynch's Injury

I heard , via Moon, he got a ball to the balls.

by Anicra on Nov 28, 2011 12:43 PM PST reply actions  

What's worse?

Completely collapsing in the fourth quarter to lose the game?

…Or…

The fact that, despite the loss, Washington could STILL PICK AHEAD OF US IN THE DRAFT!!!!!???!?!!

by Bob Ross on Nov 28, 2011 12:52 PM PST reply actions  

Option C.

Having Steve Spurrier AND Jim Zorn as your head coach for 4 years total AND having Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato as your GM for that time. Redskins (fans) should be awarded 10 first round picks for all the pain we’ve suffered.

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you’re not, in fact, surrounded by assholes." - William Gibson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 28, 2011 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

They were awarded 10 first round picks

but Snyder and Cerrato traded them for Antwan Randle El.

by Nate Dogg on Nov 28, 2011 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

And Brandon Lloyd.

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you’re not, in fact, surrounded by assholes." - William Gibson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 28, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think lynch got a groin injury

I think he just got his nuts hit real hard. On tv it showed lynch laying flat on the ground holding his nuts like he just got hit there. He played just fine shortly after that incident.

by JLG33134 on Nov 28, 2011 12:52 PM PST reply actions  

You can count a dropped pass from sidney rice too

He shoulda made the catch on the play he got injured on. Seriously that was a good catchable pass, and he somehow ends up taking himself out on the easy play, a redskin didn’t touch him. I probably shouldn’t be mad but I am. That attempt to catch that pass was what I would consider an epic fail, now he probly wont be cleared to play for the Eagles game.

by JLG33134 on Nov 28, 2011 1:02 PM PST reply actions  

This loss

Can be attributed to the youth of the team. I have never seen the Seahawk defense give up points like that in the fourth quarter. The defense is good enough to win us a lot of games this year. But they are still an incredibly young and emotional unit which is going to hurt them sometimes. The silver lining of this game is that the defense is going to perfect how they close out games.

I sincerely hope the Seahawks make a move to draft/trade for Robert Griffin III if he declares. I think he would give the offense the explosive edge that would work really well with this defense. The defense gives our offense so many chances right now and they do not capitalize on it. The team needs an offense that can consistently score touchdowns.

RGIII is talented and that cannot be coached into people. His mechanic issues can be fixed with proper coaching. All the time we hear Pete talking about how he likes guys with special attributes. RGIII is that kind of QB and I think PC and JS will try going after him.

by Doomcarver on Nov 28, 2011 1:07 PM PST reply actions  

I have not watched him play

but is he a real QB or a glorified RB?

by Michael Harp on Nov 28, 2011 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Through the first several games

He had more TD passes than incompletions. The guy is definitely a ‘FOR REAL’ QB!

by CMoney87 on Nov 28, 2011 8:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Lets not forget the two passes that bounced off defenders with a clear shot at the endzone.

Jackson should be on IR. AT least with Charlie in there would be a chance for him to get benched too, so we could get a look at Portis.

by Richard fg7 on Nov 28, 2011 2:27 PM PST reply actions  

I'm going to defend the defense even after my reactionary bashing of them yesterday

And say that the 2007 and 2005…honestly the 2006 offense could have rescued the game. When the defense struggles it is up to the offense to score when they need to. I hope people remember our old defenses under Holmgren/Marshall would completely f*** leads up and then Josh Brown and/or Hasselbeck had to save the day.

This is how bad it’s gotten – Gun to my head, if you told me we needed to drive 80 yards to win the game, and the QBs were T-Jax and Seneca, I would choose Seneca Wallace 10 times out of 10. Hell Seneca actually has a come from behind game-winning drive on his resume, doesn’t he?

I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.

by SSreporters on Nov 28, 2011 2:39 PM PST reply actions  

I'm defending Tarvaris Jackson; I must be in bizarro world...

Be fair to the guy; he’s slightly below average QB (statistically speaking) which means that he’s had highs and lows throughout his games and his career. If he didn’t play QB he’d be a perfectly acceptable cog – and that’s still what the QB is – one piece of an apparatus. He just plays the most important position so his highs and lows are magnified.

Most of my cliches aren't original.

- Chuck Knox

by Azimeir on Nov 28, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

At the game, it looked like the D went into a zone/prevent for the first 4thQtr TD.

No excuses for the offense either. It looked like the D and the O abandoned their gameplans and went into time-killing mode way too early. I’m tempted to lay this one at the feet of Carroll.

by Groundhog on Nov 28, 2011 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Caroll has to be blamed for some of this

What about the obvious blitzes. Can’t Caroll call a play that works against an 8 man blitz?
Aside from that, he loves to find injured players and rehab them. But at the end of the day, most of them reinjure themselves. The only successful one we have is Marshawn Lynch (yeah).

My superstars on this team: Chancellor, Thomas, Bryant and Branch on Defense.
Okung, Baldwin and Lynch on Offense. We have to build from there.

by AlaskaHawk on Nov 28, 2011 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Not to get nitpicky...

But one could also add the combination of Ryan punting and Washington returning. Because of those two cats, we can actually play the “field position” game with other teams, trade punts and slowly move the ball towards the end zone. Worth their paychecks, far and away.

I also am still a big fan of Justin Forsett; a team leader, durable scrapper, and a great change of pace with Lynch that I think could fill a similar role for us that Kevin Faulk did for the Pats all those years – a valuable role-player.

There are others (am I’m sure other will post), but I’ll digress for now.

Most of my cliches aren't original.

- Chuck Knox

by Azimeir on Nov 28, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Giveing up 23 points to Rex Grossman and Roy Helu AT HOME is pathetic.

It would be nice if TJax & Co. could have put up 24+ points, but we’re not the Patriots; if we had put forth the resources to acquire a QB better than Tarvaris Jackson and his $4 million-or-so salary, then maybe we can expect more from our offense.

We’re getting just what we paid, if not a little more; look at what Cleveland is getting out of 3rd-round pick Colt McCoy; look at what Jacksonville is getting out of 1st-round pick Blaine Gabbert; look at what the Jets are getting out of 1st-round pick Mark Sanchez; look at what the Bills have been getting the last few weeks from their $59-million-dollar-man Ryan Fitzpatrick; look at what the Cardinals are getting out of the $60 million and 2nd-round pick (plus a pretty decent corner) they surrendered to acquire Kevin Kolb; how much are the Raiders really getting out of Carson Palmer, considering the ungodly sum they gave up to get him (and don’t forget the QB disaster zones in Houston, KC and Indy)?

There are plenty worse situations out there than putting up with Tarvaris Jackson (and his easily-disposable salary) as your QB.

by J.L. White on Nov 28, 2011 10:27 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Had an interesting thought about Carroll and his ability to work with players

and thought I’d throw it in an off topic thread. It seems like Carroll is more able to work with and improve players who are straight out of college. I wonder if his style of personal interaction works better with the type of player who is just out of college and is still used to the structured life college provides and don’t need their own personal inspiration and passion. To me it seems like Carroll gets far less from “established” players like Miller (great blocking, but never thought he was a better receiver than Carlson, and hasn’t shown the ability to up his game this year), Rice, Jackson, Gallery (arguably looking better after the bye than before – perhaps due to health), and even last year we didn’t see any development in any of the more established players (Hass, Lofa, LoJack). I think we will see more contributions from internal player development than we will from FA.

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Nov 28, 2011 4:37 PM PST reply actions  

Interesting theory

But what about:
Lawyer Milloy
Brandon Stokley
Matt Hasselbeck
Ben Obomanu
Leroy Hill

Granted many of those guys are no longer on the team but it never seemed like it was a struggle for Carroll to get production out of them.

by jhmg16 on Nov 28, 2011 7:03 PM PST up reply actions  

It can also be said that younger players are just better than older players.

If you were just decent as a 25-year-old in the NFL, chance are you’re going to be just as good (if not a little worse) when you turn 30, 35, etc…some players mature faster (and slower) than others, but, if everything else were equal, a team of 25-year-olds would destroy a team of all 35-year-olds. Veteran leadership has its place, but you don’t need it at all 53 roster spots.

Also, younger players don’t have the same expectations that older players do; Sidney Rice and Zach Miller (while still young) have played just enough season where we expect a certain minimum from them, while someone like Doug Baldwin wasn’t really expected to do ANYTHING. If Baldwin didn’t do anything, then we wouldn’t say he was a disappointment. Think of it this way: the Seahawks offense (while not that good) has been much better after its 1st two weeks, when Rice returned from injury….maybe there are other reasons, but its possible that, even though Rice himself hasn’t produced THAT much this year, his presence has altered how defenders play us, and opened things up a bit for guys like Baldwin. Just because he’s not meeting expectations doesn’t necessarily mean Rice isn’t helping.

by J.L. White on Nov 28, 2011 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Very logical, pqiqi. Probably true, too.

And to tangent off your tangent, I wonder if Dan Synder has eyes for Peyton Manning.
What say, Kevin E.? Ya think Dan S. might
give Peyton a four year, ninety million dollar contract?

Thereby creating one less competitor for Barkley.

by broadbill birdwatcher on Nov 28, 2011 5:27 PM PST reply actions  

I dont see it happening

Since getting canned by Al Davis (and before taking HC job with Denver), Shanny has in his contract that he has full control of personnel, so Snyder truly is in the backseat now. Now, Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan love veteran players, but I can’t see Peyton Manning want to play here given the lack of talent at WR and OLine. His neck will scare off pretty much everyone.

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you’re not, in fact, surrounded by assholes." - William Gibson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 28, 2011 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Changes.

Based on Carroll’s post game comments, it sounds like anything goes (to an extent) with playing time going forward. Are any changes coming?

As much as I’d love to see them do something about the QB position, I’m sure we’ll continue to see T-Jack out there until he’s too injured to play, then when he hits IR more Whitehurst.

ALWAYS COMPETE

…except for the QB position.

Wanted: Franchise Quarterback

It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!

by Wayward Llama on Nov 29, 2011 7:01 AM PST reply actions  

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