2012 NFL Draft: What's Changed, How It Affects the Seahawks, and Crazy Talk
by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 1:17 PM PST
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I had a few funny ideas for articles to write this weekend. I might still do something but truthfully, I ate a bad burrito last night and don't have much energy to do anything. I already filled my obligation at FakeTeams this morning (check it out! It's got a holiday twist from a familiar poem!) and while doing that I couldn't stop thinking about the NFL draft.
What with everything that happened yesterday, I just want to talk about the NFL draft.
What happened yesterday?
Well, you know that Matt Barkley decided not to enter the draft and return to school because while you can sleep with college girls no matter how old you are, it's only cool if you're still in college. Barkley will now get one more year of that. Oh, and the Trojans are probably going to be ranked in the top 5 pre-season, he'll be the number one Heisman candidate, blah blah blah.
Trust me as a person who lives in Southern California, it's all about the "Girls, Girls, Girls" like Motley Crue said.
So that was one major development that happened. Something that rocked the foundation of those NFL teams that need a franchise quarterback like the Seahawks do. Last year, 5 or 6 teams may have solidified themselves at the position enough through the draft to take them out of the running for drafting a QB high this year. So, this was a good year to strike if you're the Dolphins or Seahawks.
I mean, just look at how many teams at the top of the draft DON'T need a QB. That never happens. Last year there were so many talents that it was probably smart for Seattle to wait it out another year when there weren't so many teams looking for a QBOTF. 2012 was a good year for that, but we don't know that 2013 will be.
So, the Barkley news was not really good for the Seahawks in any way. Maybe there is some development where it seems feasible that Barkley could be a Seahawk in 2013, but that's too far down to even predict. Hey, maybe we are lucky and Seattle actually does really suck next year!
What else happened yesterday?
Well, the Colts also declared. They declared that they might not be the worst team in the NFL and beat the Texans on a shocking two-minute drive led by Dan Orlovsky! You know what that means: Dan Orlovsky is the next Peyton Manning!
No, it just means that the Colts might not pick first after all. Which I like because "F#CK ARCHIE MANNING STORIES!" and "F#CK THE COLTS TRYING TO BE THE SPURS OF THE NFL!" Indy has had the best QB in the league for 15 years. Let someone else have it.
The bad news for us though is that the Rams got one step closer to drafting first. They have as many wins as the Colts do and finish with the Steelers and 49ers. Yeah, they are going to go 2-14. It's just a matter of the Colts beating the Jaguars next week and that's not crazy talk.
What do the Rams do with the pick? Well they could:
- Keep Luck, trade Bradford
- Trade the pick for lots of goodies, keep Bradford.
- Trade both the pick and Bradford for a genuine Mickey Mantle signed baseball.
- Draft Matt Kalil, the best non-Luck prospect in the draft and solidify left tackle for, say, 15 years.
- Draft Chris Polk.
- Draft Kris Kross.
- Draft the Vietnam war.
- Miller Genuine Draft.
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FARMS ARE BEING KILLED BY DOMINOES ANYWAY.
SELL IT.
Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.
by Nick Andron on Dec 23, 2011 1:31 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Now it sounds like Oklahoma expects Jones to return for one more year as well.
Months of this being the year to get a QB just evaporated.
I like Tannehill in the late first early 2nd if we just must have a QB, but I suspect Shanahan likes him too.
I think John Schneider wants him some extra picks this year. Or Decastro?
by Harvey Manfrengenson on Dec 23, 2011 1:37 PM PST reply actions
You didn't want anything to do with Landry Jones
moving along. Nothing to see here.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Dec 23, 2011 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, I agree about Jones. The talking draft heads like him in the first, I do not.
by Harvey Manfrengenson on Dec 23, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert do prove though that quarterbacks can go a lot higher than expected or what they deserve.
Though I like the Ponder pick now. Meanwhile, the Jags may want to draft RG3.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
Jags aren't going to give up on Gabbert yet.
They’re already bringing back their GM Gene Smith for another year. I can’t see him giving up on Gabbert after only one year, especially since they traded up to get him.
by Coach Owens on Dec 23, 2011 10:57 PM PST up reply actions
All those teams ahead of us that could have drafted him?
I wanted him in the mix, but not for us.
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."
by shams on Dec 23, 2011 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm entirely fine with that.
It gives us another year for Carroll to coach Jackson up.
If by some miracle Jackson can actually become something, then we don’t have to use a first-rounder on the position, and nothing would make me happier.
He's been injured for most of this winning "streak"
And he didn’t have a real offseason to train with a new offense. I still think Jackson could be above-average.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Dec 23, 2011 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
You mean the new offense he already knew
and the #1 WR that came from the same team?
I give credit to Jackson for some improvement over the season, but a lot of it has to do with the emergence of an actual running game and a whole lot of luck.
Wanted: Franchise Quarterback
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Dec 23, 2011 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The #1 WR who is out now, you mean?
I definitely saw how he was a lot more comfortable with Rice than with Williams et al in the first couple weeks, and now he does have that full year of working with Baldwin, Obamanu, and Maple Bars under his belt, but an offense that “you know” with a brand new line, new receivers, and a questionable running game (which was not questionable at the old place) is not really an offense that you know per se.
I still think he gets an awful lot of crap for stuff that isn’t entirely his fault. The numbers indicate that TJax, for all the talk of his holding on the ball for two long, has one of the lowest rates of long-sack opportunities in the league. That is, he gets sacked or pressured in 2.4 seconds or less if memory serves the 6th most times in the league. Part of that is that he hasn’t been too hot at picking up the blitz (although I think he’s gotten a lot better the past 3 weeks) but a bigger part of that is that he has to cope with the linemen in front of him getting beat an awful lot.
Anyway, I’m not saying he’s potentially the next Brady or even the next Matt Hasselbeck. What he is is a league average quarterback with the potential to be a couple ticks above average. That’s far from useless. In fact, even if this team does happen to land a QBOTF this year, either by trading up to get RG3 or signing a Kyle Orton or Peyton Manning via free agency, Jackson would still be a very, very valuable piece to have. Ask the Bears whether or not they could use an average backup QB. Heck, ask Cleveland, a city where there is an actual quarterback controversy involving Seneca Wallace.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Dec 23, 2011 11:26 PM PST up reply actions
Poll should have a "Best Player Available" option
That’s what SEA should do.
I don’t even think trading up is a realistic option. With Washington and Miami lurking no one above those teams will want to move down as far as 15th or so where SEA will pick.
SEA’s best shot at a QBOTF coming in this off-season may be in the musical chairs that follows IND getting the top overall pick, and looking to move Manning. Picks and players could be in play all over the place. Seattle could benefit from that somehow.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Dec 23, 2011 1:39 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I think "Draft a player at another position" covered that, but you're right, it COULD mean a QB as the best player available.
We can’t edit polls, so it is what it is at this point.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
At the risk of falling somewhat irrationally in love with a player pre-combine, pre-workouts, etc.
I am growing fond of the idea of Seattle sliding down a few spots with an eye on Lamar Miller, the Miami RB. The kid is big and has elite speed.
I am hoping Seattle signs Beast Mode to a reasonable deal, but doesn’t overvalue him. His YPC masks a good bit of his value, but it still does tell us something about his limitations. I’d love to get some lightening to go with his thunder.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Dec 23, 2011 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt Indy moves Manning for anything.
If they draft Luck and decide to start him from Day One, they’ll cut Manning outright and avoid paying off the MASSIVE signing bonus he’s due. Even trading him off would put a really large dent into their salary cap.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Dec 23, 2011 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
Schefter says the first pick would command at least 3 in not 4 first round picks
If a team. presumably the Colts, was even willing to trade it.
by Harvey Manfrengenson on Dec 23, 2011 1:44 PM PST reply actions
With the likelihood that Andrew Luck will make ~22 million over four years, sure, the Colts or any team can safely draft him and not worry about prohibitive costs.
So they could ask for whatever they want. Still, Andrew Luck could also say “F The Colts” and never show up. He could hear rumors like that and say “You know what, screw it, I’m actually not entering the draft.”
I’m just saying, there’s consequences. Four first round picks for Andrew Luck? That’s obviously just saying “We aren’t trading him.”
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Colts have to decide on Manning's roster bonus in March
The bonus makes trading him far more costly for Indy to deal.
Luck will have to declare for the draft sometime in January (iirc), and whomever has the first pick can start negotiating right away I think. So, it’s not like Luck could hold a team hostage by threatening to return to school. He could threaten not to sign and sit out.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Is he a good baseball player?
Do they have to declare in January, before the Super Bowl though? Seems early but I could be wrong.
I’m just saying, Luck as power too. He may not want to play for the Colts, considering how bad they are and that he MIGHT have to sit for three years, or at least he could foresee that if the Colts keep Manning AND are demanding four first round draft picks or three firsts+.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
But he doesn't have to sign - that was the method behind Elway and Eli
If he feels he’s good enough to start right away, he could always holdout or basically force a trade with another team.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
However, the 2011 Colts are not the 1983 Bob Irsay Colts or the late 90s San Diego Chargers.
Far from there being a record of wrecking quarterbacks in Indy, there is a long record of a great quarterback building a semi-dynasty. Even if Orlovsky/Kerry Collins/everyone else the Colts have tried this year couldn’t do anything with that receiving corps doesn’t mean that Luck is bound to fail just as horribly.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Dec 23, 2011 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
As far as Robert Griffin, I do consider him a future star and could see why he might go #2 in the draft.
Seeing the success of Cam Newton could have a team drooling about the possibility of not only having a good quarterback but playing on more Sunday and Monday night games as well. He’s a star in the making.
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Is, "I ate a bad burrito last night" a euphemism for "I drank too much last night?"
"Now I'm tired of this s---. I'm sick and f------ tired of an 8-10 record. I'm f------ tired of losing to Purdue. I'm not here to f--- around this week. Now you may be, but I'm not." -- Bobby Knight, circa 1992
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 23, 2011 1:52 PM PST reply actions
Not a euphemism, but they do go hand in hand.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
Having a burrito in one hand and a beer in the other
just might be enough to knock a guy out of his writing duties.
Bite the wax tadpole.
Draft best player at position of need or trade down
and hope TJax improves and maybe…maybe Josh Portis has matured enough over the year to push for QB position.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. - Al Swearengen
I seriously doubt Porter is going to push Tavaris. But, if he even sticks next year, that would be a good sign going forward.
"Now I'm tired of this s---. I'm sick and f------ tired of an 8-10 record. I'm f------ tired of losing to Purdue. I'm not here to f--- around this week. Now you may be, but I'm not." -- Bobby Knight, circa 1992
by Tyler Jorgensen on Dec 23, 2011 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
It would be nice to at least see what he's got.
Hopefully he’ll stick around and we can see more of him next preseason.
Wanted: Franchise Quarterback
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
by Wayward Llama on Dec 23, 2011 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure Seattle has enough depth...
or a good enough top end to limit to positions of need.
The deepest position, WR, lacks a consistent elite target. Rice is probably that guy on talent, but his durability concerns downgrade him.
I love our safeties, but we don’t have the depth to even approximate, much less replace, what ET does. Maybe we do for Kam, depending on how you feel about Bigby and Jeron Johnson.
I’d consider pretty much any position, even OT. For the right guy we could shift Carpenter inside and show Gallery the door.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Sure, later in the draft you can solidify depth for our secondary, but at the top?
I’m not sure who the third best WR will be, but if a wide receiver slipped to the Hawks in the first round, I wouldn’t be mad. I know it’s not the greatest need, but if you can’t get a QB, get weapons.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
If for some reason Dwight Jones is available at the Hawks' spot in the first, I'd be very ok with picking him.
by Matt Erickson on Dec 23, 2011 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm a Wright fan, though I'm not sure I'm enough of a fan to draft over a few other guys that might be available then.
I like Jones and Richardson enough that I would pass on pretty much anyone else who reasonably might end up there.
by Matt Erickson on Dec 23, 2011 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed.
I think there’s enough WR and RB talent that I’d like to see them draft LB or DL in the first and look at WR and RB in the third and fourth. Perhaps OL in the 2nd. That’s kinda how the draft board is looking to me right now.
by Matt Erickson on Dec 23, 2011 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't be to heartbroken if we went O-line either.
Decastro(sp?) would slot into the G position and our O-line would pretty much be set for the next decade assuming Carpenter can at least become an average starter at RT, which I don’t think is to much of a stretch.
I say nay
We’ve spent two 1sts and a 3rd over the past two years to build up the O-line, along with a fair number of later-round backups and trades that seem to be earning their paycheck. At this point, once we get everyone back and healthy, I would say that the O-line is no longer our biggest problem. A good MLB would be nice on the other side of the ball, though.
"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan
"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"
I'd go with a left guard
to take over for Gallery eventually, but we can probably get the best one in the draft in the 2nd round. Not a great position of need, nor one that’s in demand, so that might be worth checking out.
"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan
"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"
Where is the "Draft Weeden in the 4th round and be in the same place we are now" poll option?
Just giving you a hard time. I’d be fine with any of the bottom three options, its all going to depend on how the first 3 or 4 picks go. I think the price would be too high to move up into the 2-5 slots where RG3 goes but if he slips for some reason i think 6-8 would be doable with out hurting too much. If he goes early I think its got to be BPA or a trade down just depending on who is there.
DE seems like our greatest area of need after QB and outside the top couple QB’s I don’t feel like there is alot of excitment for any of the other positions. I may have just been so QB focused for so long that I’m biased though.
Well, you know I'd love to get three high-end prospects of other positions and Weeden!
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
He's so old though
He’s only like three years younger then I am and I almost need a walker to take a piss at night.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. - Al Swearengen
Were you in the thread yesterday?
Fourth round draft pick. QB. Fourth round draft pick.
He’s very interesting as an option for 3-4 years, while the Hawks likely will NOT have the option to draft a QB in the top 10.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
I glanced over it.
But let me be serious for a moment. Are you Weeden’s agent?
In my opinion it just seems like a wasted pick for someone who may not even be in the league six years from now. It seems anti-youth movement to me.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. - Al Swearengen
Ha!
I respect that, but if he has a great combine and workout and pre-draft measurables (6’4, 220 lbs, strong arm and instincts.) and you saw a player that could be better than T Jack by next season and have him for four years at a low cost, is that a bad thing? For a fourth round draft pick.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
I respect that.
I guess part of my problem is I want the QB debate to be over with.I want our QBotF over the next decade and not have to continue the search in five or six years. If he shows he can start at a high level in a year or two I guess why not take him in a mid/late round.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. - Al Swearengen
This goes back again to "what options do we have?"
I am highly skeptical that the Seahawks can trade up into the top 5. The Browns can offer more. The Dolphins and Redskins can offer higher draft picks. I would like to be better in 2012 and Weeden could help do that.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
Just as an example, how old was Kurt Warner in 1999?
Would the Rams have rather had a 22-year-old that didn’t make them great for 3 years? (2 out of 3 years)
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
What if we traded a fourth-round pick for a 29 year old free agent?
It’s not a wasted pick on its face, I don’t think.
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."
It's not the years, it's the mileage
Whitehurst had spent the last 3-4 years on the bench behind Rivers in SD, so it’s not as though we were being subjected to the trauma of a full season year after year.
"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan
"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"
I'm not sure we should assume he'll be a fourth round pick.
Philly drafted a 27 year old Danny Watkins in the first round last year, and he’s a guard. If Weeden grades out well enough he could go fairly high.
I'll be surprised if its close to the first round, but definitely, we don't know yet.
I’m going off of where he probably grades out today. 3rd/4th.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, that's kind of my guess too on talent.
It’d be great if they get a discount because of his age, but I’m not sure if that’ll happen.
Part of the issue with Weeden is the offense he's coming from
OSU is running about as pure of a shotgun spread as you’ll find right now. If he was running a pro-style offense, I don’t think his age would be as big of a deal, but if he’s 29 and needs to learn how to run play-action, taking snaps under center, dropping back, etc., that extends his necessary development even more. I think that may be a big thing that could prevent him from being taken in the 1st or 2nd round.
by Matt Erickson on Dec 23, 2011 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
We've been saying this about quarterbacks for a few years now.
And they continue to succeed early in their careers despite it. Working mainly out of the shotgun isn’t just a college thing, pro teams are using it more and more making the transition easier on guys like Bradford, Dalton, Newton and Freeman.
Is Bradford an example of a success? Really?
He played in a Mirer-ized offense last year and this year was horrible/injured all season long. And Josh Freeman was horrendous in his rookie year and has been pretty pick-happy this year as well. If two failures (don’t want to trot out the “b” word yet but both guys are headed in that direction), the consensus #1 from last year, and, okay, Andy Dalton is your evidence, I don’t think that speaks well for guys who are clearly not at the Cam Newton level of play.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Dec 23, 2011 11:38 PM PST up reply actions
The question was whether Weeden could have success early in his career since he's coming from a spread offense.
Whatever you think of where Bradford and Freeman’s careers are going, and I’ve been vocal about my skepticism regarding Bradford, you can’t deny they both had successful seasons in their first two years.
This year skewed the debate because defenses ended up suffering most from the lockout
Freeman definitely did not hit the ground running as a quarterback, and Bradford’s offense wasn’t exactly high-powered. Newton and Dalton are just a confluence of perfect circumstances in one year, and not that likely to be repeated.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Dec 24, 2011 3:44 AM PST up reply actions
I remember being told by you that Bradford played well last year.
I’m not sure why the overall quality of Bradford’s offense would be relevant to whether Weeden could step in and contribute early. And Freeman was very good his second season, which I would consider early in his career.
I’m not sure it’s a confluence of perfect circumstances that young quarterbacks have been successful since 2008. The rule changes have made the position much easier to play, it’s possible that we need to adjust our expectations of what rookie quarterbacks can do.
Bradford did play well last year
But in reviewing it more and more, it’s the kind of “prevent-QB-input” offense, not a QB-driven offense. The difference is huge when evaluating and comparing young quarterbacks (like Sanchez).
Freeman is one of the hardest-working young quarterbacks I think this league has ever had, and a dedicated, intelligent student of the game. Yet his quality is still fluctuating. I would feel it very dubious to argue anything based on his career so far. He certainly has that up and down quality of a young player.
And it’s a lot easier now than it was before, for sure, but that’s a difference of gradation, not a difference of absolutes. Besides, each of the classes, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, is so unique in analysis I don’t see how you can draw a line through them. 2009 was overreaching because 2008 got people into the mindset that you are in now, and then the 2009 class proved that mindset wrong. Then they retreated again for 2010, Bradford did fine in context, and the overreaching began again in 2011. It’s so cyclical it’s poetic.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Dec 24, 2011 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
My mindset is only that we shouldn't write off Weeden because of his age and his system.
It’s possible that he comes in and plays well early, it’s possible he doesn’t, but I don’t think we can point to the spread as an indicator of which one it’ll be.
I don't disagree
But from your posts, I might have been misreading, you sounded like you now believe system shouldn’t be factored in at all. I disagree, it definitely hurts his draft stock, because it is an additional risk.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Dec 24, 2011 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
For me it's a pretty minor detail.
I think any reasonable amount of scouting can see through the system and give you an idea about a quarterbacks ability (for example, John was saying the same thing about Bradford not being part of a QB driven offense before the draft and anyone who watched a few Auburn games knew that Newton could throw). It just makes that process more difficult.
Well yeah, but that's overall talent scouting
That is a separate if related question to whether or not the QB is “pro-ready”, which is a bigger factor for Weeden than it was for the 21-year old Josh Freeman.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Dec 24, 2011 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Draft a position of need this year,
Only after trying to trade down. If you trade with the right team, you might end up getting the #1 pick next year. If not, you still have extra draft picks to sweeten the deal.
Trading for a QB in the draft this year became laughably expensive with Barkley not declaring. I’d much rather build the team up to it’s maximum potential before getting that QB.
by Doomcarver on Dec 23, 2011 2:17 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I the most important guy on the Hawk team right now has got to be John Schnider.
I have no idea what I would do at QB. I like TJ and he’s a fun to watch at times. But dam he just sucks when under pressure. You can’t just be good at your job until you’re NEEDED THE MOST. I f they need to trade up or whatever they need to get a QB . Period. Good luck Mr. Schnider it’s all on you now.
Well depending on what happens we may get an extended look at Matt Flynn.
If GB locks up the #1 seed then they don’t have much reason to play Rodgers for the next couple games. It kind of sucks because we need them to beat detroit if we win. I’m not advocating for Flynn but I’ve just heard the hype for most of the season and wouldn’t mind seeing how he looks.
Keep in mind also Green Bay's line is worse than ours (when healthy)
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
If I were Matt Barkley, I'd much rather be at USC surrounded by hot chicks
Than on the Redskins looking at Mike Shanahan everyday.
Not a fan of large bleached ill-fitting teeth?
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. - Al Swearengen
Trade down or take BAP.
If there is a trade down scenario where we get an additional 1st next year or a package of 2nd and 3rd round picks – TAKE IT.
Otherwise: best player available.
Seems optimistic
By the middle of the round, the best we’re likely to get would to swap places with a playoff team or the like in the 1st round, and maybe a 2nd or 3rd on top of that, and that’s only if there’s someone that’s fallen down the charts that they DESPERATELY want to make a Super Bowl run in the next year or two.
"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan
"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"
Trade our first this year
for a first and a third next year. Trade our second this year for a second and a fourth next year
Draft a LB with the third. RB in the fourth. Depth with the rest, and sign six more Doug Baldwins in UDFA.
Then next year all in. Simple, right?
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
my thoughts
exactly
Obey gravity....it's the law
I'm not a great talent evaluator
so I have no idea if Jones is worth a 1st round pick or not. RG3 either, for that matter.
But I am pretty decent at judging history and from that perspective I’m fairly drooling at the thought of what Pete and John could do with another few picks in Rds 2,3 or 4. If the BPA doesn’t excite at wherever the Hawks pick this year in the 1st, I wouldn’t hesitate to trade down and acquire more picks.
Would you rather reach for a Jones or Tannehill or get 2 or 3 Moffits, Tates or KJ Wrights?
I would say the thing with Jones, is to sort of expect that if he goes in the middle of the first round, it's probably a "reach" right now.
Maybe in two months he’ll be considered a sure-fire, solid first round pick. Maybe he will fall way down. Christian Ponder soared up the Vikings draft board last year. A similar thing could happen to Jones. Or he could be a Blaine Gabbert. Tannehill seems to quickly be slipping further and further down draft boards. RG3’s stock shot up like crazy after Barkley returned to school.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'd say it shot up after the Heisman, but that's me.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Dec 23, 2011 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think draft stock is greatly affected by awards. With or without it, teams were going to look at his tape, combine, measurables, etc.
Now that there is one less elite QB prospect, what he brings to the draft becomes rarer, and therefore, more sought after.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 24, 2011 7:44 AM PST up reply actions
I agree in principle but he's been having a really, really good year, and think that in this case it might make a lot of NFL scouts agree that it wasn't just a flukey season.
If Newton had a track record of looking like an NFL QB before this year I’d agree with you. As it stands, I think any accolades add to his credibility.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Dec 24, 2011 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
Where is the BPA this year, Keith Price next year choice?
they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!
by stufr on Dec 23, 2011 4:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I said trade down...
but the reason I wanted to trade down is because I’m still stoked on this most recent draft and all the talent we got in the later rounds. I guess what I mean is, I’m assuming that our FO didn’t just get lucky last year with Wright, Baldwin and Sherman. I’m assuming they actually know what they are doing.
DRAFT RYAN MALLETT!!!!!
Damn, that bus has done left the station…
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
by Hawksince77 on Dec 23, 2011 5:16 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Ever since you said we couldn't say Kellen Moore
I want nothing more than for the seahawks to draft Moore in the first round. Call me crazy but I think we should draft Luck.
Watching the Seahawks is like peeing on yourself, everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling it brings
by DKrottenhawk on Dec 23, 2011 5:41 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Go ahead and take Kellen! You miserable fool!
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 23, 2011 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
I love the sandwich surgeon.
I do, but there is no way he gets drafted before the 4th round. I do expect him to break camp with someone and wow in the preseason though.
Speaking of remote possibilites...
how about the success rate of big 12 QB’s in the NFL especially OK and UT, with as good as those teams have been over the past decade Bradford is the best they can do? Can you say system QB?
I’d take Moore before Jones, but wouldn’t take either till the third.
GET OFF ME!
Trade down...
If Indy does use the #1 pick on Luck, regardless of whether or not Manning is still on their roster, they absolutely HAVE to protect those investments, meaning they need an elite level OL that can play from day 1. Trade our 1st for their 2012 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 2013 2nd round picks.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
Kenneth, Matt is dating Seattle Pacific University soccer player Brittany Langdon.
He thanked her by name during the press conference.
Until recently, I never realized that everyone writing about the draft was a professional NFL scout!
Why no one told me sooner is beyond me.
Obviously, these broad conclusions about players other than Luck and Griffin must have some basis in reality other than wholesale bandwagon assumptions based on the wise musings of people like Mel Kiper and Walter Cherepinsky. Or can someone articulate to me exactly why a player like Kellen Moore is “obviously a sixth or seventh round pick,” or why a player like Brandon Weeden is obviously not worth a high draft pick?
Sure.
Kellen Moore is prohibitively short, his arm strength is significantly limited, he’s faced very little pressure in his time at Boise St and his teams have been vastly superior to the majority of his opponents. He is very likely the next Timmy Chang, Graham Harrell or Ty Detmer. He wouldn’t be the first incredibly productive college player that didn’t translate to the NFL. Rob Staton has gone into detail a few times about some of Moore’s short comings.
As for Weeden, I don’t think anyone is saying he’s obviously not worth a high draft pick. His age (28) could hurt his stock, but if you scroll up you’ll see a discussion about that potentially not being a factor. If after everything is said and done Weeden is a first round pick, I will not be at all surprised. However, there are some reasons to think he may be a mid round pick outside of his age: he doesn’t have outstanding arm strength, he plays in a very pass happy shotgun only offense (although, again, if you scroll up there’s talk about how big of a factor that is), he’s out of a conference that has produced a lot of highly productive college QBs that haven’t translate well to the pros, and he hasn’t faced a ton of tough defensive competition.
Haha. You make a good point
But that’s just part of the pre-daft discourse. A lot of opinions bandied about, most of it just based on draft pundit consensus, some of it on watching incidental games, and very little of it on indepth college scouting. That’s just what it is, though.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Dec 24, 2011 3:47 AM PST up reply actions
Thanks for clearing that up for everybody Thomas.
Everyone got that? I don’t know shit about the draft. I have no idea what I’m talking about. Just so we are clear.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 24, 2011 7:47 AM PST up reply actions
I thought pacificsands and I were talking about the general discourse/tendency to hop on draft pundit consensus bandwagons
Which is something I’ve done myself numerous times.
Not sure why you’re applying that comment to yourself. You could’ve applied any of the three alternatives I listed to your own piece, as I don’t know which one does, and wasn’t commenting on this story.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Dec 24, 2011 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
As always, I'm just having fun with you.
Of course, pacificsands is taking a shot directly at me, so therefore you are sounding in agreement with him. But I don’t take anything on the internet personally.
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 24, 2011 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
My option was not in the poll
Pass rusher in the first and Austin Davis in the 2nd or 3rd depending on how he grades out.
In the third
With Chris Polk in the second
they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!
I haven't looked into the draft at all, but I say defensive end in the first...
And I’m a big Nick Foles fan. And I go to ASU, not the U of A, and say I’m a Foles fan, so that should be considered. He makes a terrible team competitive, and did it behind an offensive line with 0 starters from last year. Now granted his stats were inflated because they were always playing from behind and he has what I think may be one of the top 5 receivers in the NCAA in Criner, he still put up great numbers.
The Hawks need help everywhere...
Just because we’re pleased with the improvement both amongst starters as well as depth doesn’t mean we’re just a few players away.
I don’t think there’s any position that is so solid we shouldn’t draft someone there. QB is definitely the most obvious need, but the damage done from blowing a pick by reaching is pretty severe. So I’m going to pick the boring answer and say, let’s just trust in JS and let him pick the BPAFTS. (Best Player Available for the Seahawks). I’m glad they’ve done such a good job that we don’t have to draft a single certain position NO MATTER WHAT. I would expect that they’d pick a QB at some point, if they think it’s good value.
Due to the amount of talent staying in school, if they dealt down trying to get more picks, I would not object at all.
by PerryCollective on Dec 23, 2011 10:29 PM PST reply actions
Pass rusher in first (maybe linebacker)..
Lamichael james in second
Austin davis in third.
Then BPA
by thecodeman on Dec 23, 2011 11:12 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I suck at talent evaluation
so I don’t know if there’s an elite RDE that can anchor the rush for the next 5-6 years. If there is and the Seahawks need to trade up to get that guy, they should do it. If not, try to trade down and amass picks. There are depth issues on the O-Line, at LB, at S, and at CB. Schneider and Carroll are so good at plucking really good players out of the third round and below that more picks will almost surely create the depth that the team will need to stay competitive even if an avalanche of injuries hits.
I love the Friday Night Lights reference.
As for the draft…I trust JS/PC.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Dec 24, 2011 3:09 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I like a trade with the Vikings - not for their 1st, but for NEXT YEAR'S 1st.
The Vikings look to be the worst team in the NFC North for a while, thanks to the Lions’ recent emergence, the Bears having Cutler and Forte again, and the Packers being the Packers. We may not necessarily get a top-5 pick from them, so we probably won’t be able to draft Barkley, but it’ll likely be a top-10 pick that we can use to pick a QBotF candidate.
Call me sentimental but I want to go back
And commemorate the place with a historical plaque
A Vikings team that can stay healthy, add a top draft pick, add our first round draft pick, plus whatever they do in free agency?
Minnesota looks like a rebound team to me, potentially. Tampa Bay on the other hand…
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by Kenneth Arthur on Dec 24, 2011 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
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