Free Agent Chris Spencer
I feel for Chris Spencer. If football players produced an individual stat line of any accuracy, Spencer would be acknowledged as a good, largely anonymous player. Someone fans of a particular inclination love. Sort of a Detlef Schrempf. Football players do not produce meaningful stats, especially offensive linemen, and Spencer, who is unassuming, atypical, even a little meek, has become one of the more recognizable names associated with a consistently broken offensive line.
Spencer took over in 2006, perhaps before he was ready and definitely before Mike Holmgren was ready for him. Holmgren emphasized execution. Tim Ruskell provided him wave after wave of projects. Center had been manned by a nasty old veteran: Robbie Tobeck. Spencer was a green, almost shy seeming developmental talent. With his arrival came the unraveling of the Seahawks offense and specifically the Seahawks offensive line.
The Seahawks have endured constant turnover at guard. Spencer has started beside the very young: Max Unger, Mansfield Wrotto, Mike Gibson and Rob Sims; those near retirement: Chris Gray, Mike Wahle and Ben Hamilton; modest talented undermined by injury: Floyd Womack and Chester Pitts; and journeymen tackles playing out of position: Ray Willis, Tyler Polumbus and Stacy Andrews. Center, and especially a center in a zone blocking scheme, executes through combo blocks. Most runs involve a combo block. Apart from 2007, Spencer has had almost no opportunity to develop trust and communication with his adjacent linemates. And apart from Sims, his linemates have done little to earn that trust much less a continued opportunity to start.
So I feel for Chris Spencer. He was set up for failure. In the eyes of the public, he has failed. He hasn't though. That is why each season fans and the media speculate about his replacement--especially since his replacement is on the team--and each season Spencer is appointed as the starting center, holds the position and soldiers on in relative anonymity.
But whatever my sympathy for Spencer, the question is whether Seattle should attempt to re-sign him? He turns 29 next December. That's not old-old for an offensive lineman but it isn't young either. That should be considered. As should how much he will cost. The price for interior linemen has shot through the roof. Spencer will not command Jason Brown money, but anything in that vicinity is too much. Unger proved overmatched at guard, and Seattle might be inclined to at least see what he does at center. It wouldn't surprise me if Unger was named the center of the future and Spencer was allowed to walk. It wouldn't surprise me if Seattle re-signed Spencer and traded Unger. How does Cable grade out Spencer? How does Cable project Unger's potential? I don't know.
How does Spencer grade out to me? He is powerful at the point of attack and is seldom ever overmatched. He anchors very well as a pass blocker and rarely loses a guy once he's latched on. His biggest weakness as a pass blocker is recognition. However, awareness is a tough quality to evaluate. Is Spencer at fault? Are his linemates at fault? Is it, in fact, the combination of Spencer, his linemates and the lack of chemistry and trust between the two that leads to missed blocks? I would say most likely the latter.
As a run blocker, he's powerful, moves well and is, again, rarely overmatched. That said, Seattle doesn't create much interior push. Spencer? The guards? I think it's the guards. Spencer moves pretty well but does not line up blocks in the second level. He also doesn't sustain those blocks particularly well. I would guess that is something that can still develop with coaching. He doesn't lack for power, quickness or agility. He just doesn't flash a ton of skill in space. He also isn't very nasty, insomuch that Spencer doesn't finish blocks, doesn't scrap, and doesn't blindside guys.
After all these years, Spencer is still kind of raw. Seattle is not likely to add a player of his talent or potential through free agency. But Seattle could probably add someone that is approximately as good. Personally, I hope the Seahawks re-sign Spencer. Seattle needs to fill every position along its offensive line except for left tackle. It has holes throughout its depth chart. Finding a relatively cheap, relatively young and very talented player whose ability has been masked by coaching turnover, roster turnover and poor surrounding talent is exactly what a team in Seattle's position should be doing. But if the Seahawks do not, I hope Spencer overcomes perception and finds somewhere to start. In a sport as imprecise and speculative as football, perception has a way of dictating reality. Spencer isn't Tobeck, can not overcome the fall of the greater Seahawks offense, but is a talented, tough and valuable interior lineman with plenty left to prove and an outside shot at excellence.
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Spencer is underrated, but also fallen short of his first-round potential.
I can understand why fans would be disappointed. It’s weird how some of them seem stuck in a time warp and view Spencer as if it’s still 2007, but those who view him based on his draft position have a right to be disappointed.
http://17power.blogspot.com
I think those people would be overvaluing late first round picks.
Spencer’s been a 5 year starter thats improved every year and will likely go on to start for a while longer.
by Nate Dogg on Feb 1, 2011 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Why would you say they're overvaluing them?
And how is it too much to expect a strong starter from a 1st rounder?
Maurkice Pouncey, Alex Mack, Eric Wood, Nick Mangold, Jeff Faine, and Damien Woody were all late 1st-round centers along with Spencer, and only Spencer and Wood failed to become strong centers within two years.
I suppose you could make a case that centers depend on their guards for support, but Spencer had Sims alongside him for three of those five years.
http://17power.blogspot.com
Spencer had Sims for a little over two seasons.
As for Nate’s comment, I believe it’s in reference to Brian Burke’s research that indicates late first round draft picks average about three seasons as the primary starter. People tend to remember the successes and forget the failures.
But what do you think of the information I presented?
I just pointed out that there are several centers on par with Spencer’s draft position who have matured much more quickly than he.
And not only are Burke’s statistics very broad, as all stats inevitably are, but his focus doesn’t pertain to this very well. Spencer has been a starter because he has been given the opportunity, but the argument is how long it’s taken him to become a good starter, whether it’s been a reasonable amount of time, how that stacks up next to his peers, and whether it’s fair to consider him a disappointment.
http://17power.blogspot.com
Well you left Jeff Faine off that list and Woody has never really found a steady position.
And I think Spencer’s development time is exaggerated. You mention that some seem stuck in a time warp and view Spencer as if it was 2007, but in 2007 Seattle had the 9th ranked passing offense by DVOA. Thats certainly not all Spencer, but it’s speaks a little to the scapegoating of Spencer when fans biggest complaints about him are his line calls and blitz pick up. Considering that Spencer came out of college early, was only a center for his last year in college and played mostly guard his rookie year I don’t think he’s had a disappointing development at all.
If we re-sign Spencer and sign Gallery,
we will be looking at a center-guard combo that features two 1st round dissapointments that found value later in their careers.
Signing both would help mitigate the need for an OL overhaul. We could draft a mid-round tackle to compete at the right side and allow Gibson, Polumbus, Andrews, Willis, Pitts, Unger, etc to compete for depth and 1 possible starting job.
by 12thman on Feb 1, 2011 2:34 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed.
Though I would love to draft OL early as well. Pouncey perhaps?
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Feb 1, 2011 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
Detlef Schrempf
Damn, that brings back memories.
I loved that team.
I actually met Sam Perkins a few years ago, he was clearly stoned out of his mind and had grown long dreadlocks, really nice guy. I miss the Sonics.
Back to topic!
I think keeping Chris Spencer is a must, we already have more holes than we could possibly fill this off-season, no reason to add one more. I think getting a solid lineup and letting guys play together and learn as a unit will make the biggest difference in our line play. O-line is just not a place that works well with constant personnel changes.
No way Sam Perkins was stoned.
No way, man. No way at all.
YOU LIE!!!!
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Feb 1, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
and Dale Ellis has never had a drink in his life...hey remember Gary Payton Cellular?
"C'mon somebody!" T-pain
Ah man.
Dale Ellis.
SomaFM got me through college.
by Wayward Llama on Feb 2, 2011 5:42 AM PST up reply actions
He was so calm in the clutch. There's no way marijuana could do that for you.
Also with the bloodshot eyes. I refuse to believe that pot could do that.
I just unlocked Detlef Schrempf in NBA Jam
Now here he is being mentioned on my favorite football blog. I don’t think I’ve thought about the guy in 12 years.
Apparently you're not a fan of Band of Horses
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Feb 1, 2011 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You should. It's awesome.
That episode was like, I don’t know, watching your favorite basketball player on one of your favorite shows. I guess that wasn’t a simile.
"Tim Ruskell provided him wave after wave of projects"
In the 08 and 09 drafts he drafted 1 offensive lineman. Wouldn’t call that wave after wave. Even after the whole Hutchinson transition tag debacle he pretty much treated the o line like it would figure itself out.
I think JM may have been speaking of the roster in general.
"Retarded isn't a race." -Thingray
by Matt Erickson on Feb 1, 2011 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
A Big Fan of Chris!!!
I met Chris Spencer at my son’s football camp last year. I never realized how massive of a man he was until then! He was there with Josh Wilson so the kids could see some pro’s and get some autographs. They both actually went out and ran some drills with the kids (my son was in the high school group) then spent a few hours with us parent counselors just hanging out. Very cerebral guy who gave the impression of wanting to be a Seahawk for life. It was hard to see Wilson get traded after getting to “know” him a little bit, but letting Spencer walk would be even tougher!
Compared to guys like Mack, Mangold or Pouncey (who looked competent early), Spencer looks like a bust
but I’d be satisfied with an Okung-Gallery-Spencer left side if we can bring him back without breaking the bank. Spencer can be a competent glue guy on the OL if we surround him with a little more talent.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Feb 1, 2011 3:44 PM PST reply actions
Players who are on good offensive lines.
Kind of like Aaron Curry, when a talented player has to think about more than his own assignment and is trying to clean up for multiple players roles, he can be exposed a little bit. Curry especially is trying to do too much at once, Spencer just has more than his fair share to carry for his area to look good, and he can’t do it without at least a decent guard next to him.
That at least is the premise of John’s “sign him” argument. And that he might turn out to be more than a “glue guy” but flourish next to real talent.
Boy, I HOPE Aaron Curry is similar to Spencer in that regard.
It would explain some of his… deficiencies.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Feb 1, 2011 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
But who would Curry be cleaning up after?
Bryant? Tatupu?
This OL needs some help
But I don’t personally think letting Spencer walk would qualify as helping. Guards are a must, as is getting Locklear a job at the local Fred Meyers, ASAP. Off topic but I picked up my wife from the airport on Thursday afternoon and we stopped at the BJ’s in Southcenter for lunch. We were sat next to Russel Okung and a tiny girl he was with. Ended up with his autograph and an impression of a really nice guy. Also, standing next to him made me realize how FUCKING HUGE he is. And not in a fat ass kinda way, but just genuinely BIG. Overall just very impressed by him
by CurryInAHurry59 on Feb 1, 2011 3:49 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Unless he commands too big of a contract, I'd definitely like to keep Spencer.
He’s young enough I can see building long-term with him. I know he isn’t that young, but it doesn’t seem like too many centers are starting and competing at a high level at a very young age anyway.
We could probably get 2-3 years of Spencer for 1-2 of Hasselbeck.
Remember that when we resign Hass if we miss out on resigning Spencer due to a lack of cap space.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Feb 1, 2011 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
oh god, please
why do i have to think about the Seahawks re-signing Matt so early after the seahawk season is over? I’ve come to convince myself that there is still a chance that the Hawks will go in a different direction. Any talk of Hass just eliminates that ray of hope and brings me back to the reality that the Hawks will spend $10 million per year on a QB that is down right atrocious.
so if we're looking to change quarterbacks,
is it better to have a center with experience, or have a new younger center to build continuity with a new quarterback? I also think that Cable is gunna bring a HUGE noticeable change to our OL that could be great for Spencer.
by RawkEmHawkEmBirdbots on Feb 1, 2011 4:35 PM PST reply actions
I think, as with most things, it matters most whether the center is good or not, and less tangible things like continuity are not a priority.
Question
Do you mean “not a priority” as in not a priority for the organization, or “not a priority” as in shouldn’t be a priority for the organization?
"Retarded isn't a race." -Thingray
by Matt Erickson on Feb 1, 2011 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
Ah, understood, and agreed.
"Retarded isn't a race." -Thingray
by Matt Erickson on Feb 1, 2011 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
Continuity regarding C/QB doesn't seem to be a priority, but...
…you continually hear, not just from Carroll, though also at almost every press conference of his, that continuity of the offensive line, as a single unit, is critical.
After saying as much all year, what sense would it make for Carroll to let the most consistent piece, of that 2010 line, just walk away and have to start all over? What sense would it make for Schneider to open up another hole in the roster, when there is no clear path to a guaranteed, if not, only likely upgrade already at hand.
I'm hoping Unger can snag starting center...
It’s his natural position and he has looked over matched at guard. He’s also younger than spencer and is under contract.
If he's overmatched at guard,
why wouldn’t he also be overmatched at center?
I'm gonna guess because C tends to rely a lot (physically) on the RG and LG, using lots of combo blocks.
Only occasionally is a C required to go one-on-one with a DT—or at least as far as I understand.
"Retarded isn't a race." -Thingray
by Matt Erickson on Feb 1, 2011 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
This isn't completely true
With the rise of the 3-4 and dominant 0-technique NTs, NFL centers have to be able to hold up against bull-rushing 350lb mountains of muscle and lard. The center position, more than any other OL position, is going to consistently face the largest player on the opposing defense.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Feb 1, 2011 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't a 3-4 increase the likelihood of a guard being free to double a NT?
I don’t disagree with what you said, anyways. I wasn’t even completely sure about the accuracy of what I was saying… mostly just a shot in the dark. I agree with bewrong below, that it’s probably a little bit chicken-and-egg.
"Retarded isn't a race." -Thingray
by Matt Erickson on Feb 1, 2011 8:15 PM PST up reply actions
A double team works if the DL is attacking a gap
but 2-gap, 0-technique NTs effectively “block” the opposing center into the QB. I’m not sure if a double-team is as effective.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Feb 1, 2011 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Caveat: I can't guarantee that what I'm saying is the truth
but it does sound truthy to me.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Feb 1, 2011 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
Sounds pretty truthy to me too.
I think either way, Unger sucks :D
"Retarded isn't a race." -Thingray
by Matt Erickson on Feb 1, 2011 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'm with you all the way.
Spencer has consistently been our best lineman since Walter was hurt. I think we have to work hard to retain him. But, if Unger takes over at Center and not re-signing Spencer leads to some blockbuster Guard and/or Right Tackle signings/trades I can understand allowing Spencer to walk. I hope we re-sign him for a reasonable price. If Unger can take the job from him more power to him. Not bloody likely.
Hasseldone.
as a first round draft pick
does that mean he will cost more to resign or is based on demand and performance?
by RawkEmHawkEmBirdbots on Feb 1, 2011 6:14 PM PST reply actions

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