Hall of Fame Selection Thread
by John Morgan on Feb 5, 2011 3:48 PM PST
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PrintSelections to be announced at 4 pm Pacific. Finalists are: Jerome Bettis, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Dermontti Dawson, Richard Dent, Chris Doleman, Marshall Faulk, Charles Haley, Curtis Martin, Andre Reed, Willie Roaf, Ed Sabol, Deion Sanders, Shannon Sharper and of course Cortez Kennedy. Senior nominees are Chris Hanburger and Les Richter.
Tez deserves enshrinement. The one reason I think that stands above all else is that in 1992, Kennedy was the best player in the NFL. His 1992 season was among if not the best single season by a defensive tackle in the history of the NFL. I prefer true greatness however shortly lived over sustained quality. Too many things can derail a career. Too many of the greatest of the greats in all fields endured short peaks, often short lives. The Hall is a hall of history, and no history of the NFL is complete without one of its greatest players.
Do the right thing, voters.
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Make like Spike Lee...
Do the right thing Voters.
by DJ C-Raig on Feb 5, 2011 3:52 PM PST via mobile reply actions
at least Bettis didn't get in
Can’t think of someone less deserving.
From The Hawks Nest - Seahawks Podcast
http://www.http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/from-the-hawks-nest/id385227705
by Hancock.Brett on Feb 5, 2011 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
Hopefully not before Cris Carter.
by DJ C-Raig on Feb 5, 2011 4:22 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yes
What about Willie Roaf? I’m curious. I don’t think he’s a first-balloter but I kind of don’t know why not. 11 pro bowls, two all-decade teams, can’t have a much more celebrated career
by Thomas Beekers on Feb 5, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
Still, he was like the Duke Snider of tackles during his era.
Sure, not quite as good as the Willie and Mickey of the time (Jonathan Ogden? Walter Jones? Jackie Slater?) but so, so good that in another, tackle-light era, he’d have been considered the best.
His supporting cast is kind of dookie tho
by Thomas Beekers on Feb 5, 2011 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
He seems to give more love to Seattle than many others
Besides his likable personality and wit, I like him for that reason.
by DJ C-Raig on Feb 5, 2011 4:16 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Sabol's a tough ticket because he's not a player
But he should be in.
by Thomas Beekers on Feb 5, 2011 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
He really should be.
He helped build the modern NFL just as much as any player. I love that Rooney is trying to block him out.
by DJ C-Raig on Feb 5, 2011 4:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
There was a debate on Inside the NFL yesterday about this.
Should there be a separate wing for non-players? I’d say, yes. Also, they mentioned that there should be player involvement in the selection process, or at least coaches/GMs. There are some obvious conflict of interest issues to be raised, but if each team were represented, and those who had played with a given candidate recused themselves, this would be a fairer system.
Writers have more access to the game than anyone other than the teams and governing organizations themselves. But a player’s experiences could and should be a tool used when evaluating a player’s credentials for entry.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
Or, rather, each team from each era.
Ok, so this gets a little arbitrary, but the selection process is arbitrary by definition, so maybe this wrinkle makes it less so.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
I don't like that coachs/GMs/owners/other guys like Sabol are voted along side players.
Considering that there really is a finite number of “senior” candidates that truly belong in the HOF, I think that section should be opened up to non-players as well. Ed Sabol deserves to be in, but not instead of Tez.
Cortez Kennedy in final 10
As are Roaf, Martin, Faulk, Sanders, Dent, Dawson.
Easi if Bettis and Dawson are out
Andre Reed made the final 10
Cris Carter did not.
That’s baffling.
by Thomas Beekers on Feb 5, 2011 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
I'm utterly dumbfounded that he's not in yet.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
WHAAATTT!!
"I was 11 or 12 and Quinton was like 30. He was the only dude on the Pop Warner team who had a full mustache and a beard. And he used to drive to Pop Warner games. You're not supposed to be doing that. It was crazy." -Marshawn Lynch
5 finalists
John McClain
Dent, Faulk, Sabol, Sanders and Sharpe are the 5 finalists. We voted yes or no on each of them. I always vote yes on the final 5.
Hanburger!?
"I was 11 or 12 and Quinton was like 30. He was the only dude on the Pop Warner team who had a full mustache and a beard. And he used to drive to Pop Warner games. You're not supposed to be doing that. It was crazy." -Marshawn Lynch
BOOO!
That’s why you don’t have a non-player included on the ballot! God I hate the media. “Oh Kennedy never played in a Super Bowl, therefore he sucks!!”
I was unclear what you were protesting to in the first sentence
Are you arguing Sabol should not be in the HoF?
by Thomas Beekers on Feb 5, 2011 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
No I'm saying that having a non-player on such a ballot shouldn't happen.
Football needs a committee (like baseball) that inducts all non-players.
See my first post above.
The whole process needs revamping, even if the suggestion I proffered isn’t necessarily the best.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
NFL Films is awesome, and Sabol deserves recognition, but I agree with your broader point.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
Even if Tez had got in
I have a HUGE problem with the voting system. The Pro Football Hall of Fame voters are a bunch of journalists. That is fundamentally flawed.
Willie Roaf should’ve been in.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
All processes are flawed to some extent
The HoF process is pretty strict and sensible. A bunch of journalists? Maybe, but who else you going to have select? Hoi polloi sucks at it. Players are too partial. Journalists make the most sense.
It’s as good a process as I know for a pro sport HoF. Even if I disagree with the results.
Roaf can wait.
by Thomas Beekers on Feb 5, 2011 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
I think people who have worked in the NFL in some capacity
As a coach, assistant coach, player, etc. should have some say in the voting.
Journalists getting 100% of the say having never played the game is something that doesn’t make sense.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Playing the games is the necessary qualifier?
That leaves a lot of coaches out then.
by Thomas Beekers on Feb 5, 2011 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
But they understand the game tactically
The likes of Peter King should not have the outright vote and determine who should be in and who should be out.
Art Monk taking an eternity to get into the HOF is a disgrace.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
Dammit I'm not even against referees getting a HOF vote
Although Leavy would have just have forced Jerome Bettis in by himself.
There has to be some sort of balance.
Fire Gus "What's a screen?" Bradley.
There's always disgraces
As far as I’m concerned, the Hall of Fame is a representation of NFL history. That makes it historian’s work. The requirement of historians is that they understand their job and their subject. Not that they’ve actually engaged in it. As much as I think Peter King is a whining fatso, I don’t really think coaches or players would be remotely better suited for this job, for which they miss at least half the job description.
by Thomas Beekers on Feb 5, 2011 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
I hate to agree...
but Peter King takes his role as a HoF voter seriously. Given the way college coaches vote on coaches’ rankings, I can’t see NFL coaches doing much more than picking their guys to support, that sort of thing.
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Feb 5, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree.
The Hall of Fame should be about the men who are inherently better performers. Coaches and others whose job it is to identify minutia of talent and ability should be getting more say in whose talents and abilities put them above the rest. Journalists are going to look more at accomplishments alone because that’s what they’re better at gauging, but Tez, one of the most able and talented in the game, was in a situation that severely limited what he could accomplish.
Go Pack?
I wouldn't mind a variety of journalists, coaches, refs, former players, FO guys...
Obviously all ones that long since retired.
Do you really think someone like Jamie Dukes would be any better?
Guys that played aren’t always the brightest bunch.
by Nate Dogg on Feb 5, 2011 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And he's actually a better option than a lot of the ex-players.
Salisbury.
Emmitt Smith.
Joe Theisman.
UGH!
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Feb 5, 2011 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
In addition to what everyone else has said, the Hall of Fame is as much about the fans as it is the players.
I wish there would be more recognition of down linemen myself but that’s not who the fans remember, and when they take a trip to Canton they don’t necessarily want to see Joe DeLamilleaure (who is in there anyway), they want to see Fran Tarkenton or Joe Namath.
I’d like to put together something along the lines of a Keltner List for football. I think it would make things a lot clearer. It also should be pointed out that the PFHOF ought to be at least twice the size of the baseball Hall of Fame; football starts 22 men and has to utilize larger coaching staffs because of the bigger rosters. If anything, IMO the PFHOF should be a little bit “too big”, with the caveat that the extra non-obvious guys should be interior linemen and other players at overlooked positions (safety, for example, or tight end, although again, not a big Shannon Sharpe fan).
by Johnny Slick on Feb 6, 2011 12:24 AM PST up reply actions
That's actually a very good point I hadn't thought about.
“Fame” as in famous as in well-known and historically liked. Duh on my part. Cortez Kennedy is, objectively speaking, not very famous for a football player as far as I can tell.
Go Pack?
There has to be a system in which players are included, but mechanisms put in place to remove subjectivity on their parts.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
lobotomy?
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." - George Bernard Shaw
by Tyler Jorgensen on Feb 5, 2011 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
Shannon Sharpe looks like a Quarter horse so he's out to me.
"I was 11 or 12 and Quinton was like 30. He was the only dude on the Pop Warner team who had a full mustache and a beard. And he used to drive to Pop Warner games. You're not supposed to be doing that. It was crazy." -Marshawn Lynch
no matter what homeboy ugly hahahha!
"I was 11 or 12 and Quinton was like 30. He was the only dude on the Pop Warner team who had a full mustache and a beard. And he used to drive to Pop Warner games. You're not supposed to be doing that. It was crazy." -Marshawn Lynch
Very disappointed.
This sums up my feelings quite succinctly
What gives me grief is that why limit entrees to 5 per year? People say that there’s a backlog. This was created by arbitrary limit of ‘5 per year’. People say that all of this class deserve to get in. So why stick with the 5 per year rule? It doesn’t make sense.
Proposal: When down to final 15 or so, just vote ‘Yes’ or ‘No’. Two thirds majority of ‘Yes’ gets in. Not allowed to attempt to gain entry within 5 years of a failed bid.
Because having too many players in devalues getting in
Any number is arbitrary, but having a cap-off makes sense. And it being low is good. What’s the harm in a backlog? Let them wait.
by Thomas Beekers on Feb 5, 2011 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
Well, if they deserve it,
Shouldn’t they get in anyway? Why should numbers have anything to do with it at all as long as the entrants are good enough?
I can understand the ‘let them wait’ argument to some extent; but accomplishments diminish over time, as people forget and the league, as well as human talent, changes- you can see that just by looking how passing numbers have amplified recently. Hell, we already have ‘senior nominees’ for those who fell through the cracks.
by Mickapeckalin on Feb 5, 2011 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
The baseball HOF had an early backlog and way overcorrected for it.
That’s one huge potential issue.
Personally, I think the real deal here isn’t so much that the Hall is too small or too large, it’s that down linemen don’t get the love they deserve. I mean, Shannon Sharpe? Really? He was a good to very good pass-catching TE, I’ll give him that, but he was a crap blocker and frankly not anywhere close to contemporary Tony Gonzales. In one sense that might not be a fair comparison but the era seems to be increasingly geared towards non-WRs who can catch the ball and overall I’m just not feeling that overly much.
I like Sabol a lot as a HOFer but I also think he should be in a different pool than players, similar to how the MLB does it.
A backlog makes little sense to me
You can have a larger cap, but not let the maximum in every year. If there’s someone who deserves entry but can’t get in because “there’s too many deserving players”, well, I don’t get that.
by Gihyou on Feb 5, 2011 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
But then you’re looking at some sort of arbitrary standard. There can be exclusivity by achievement. But perhaps that too devalues it. Let’s let the journalists negotiate the CBA!
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
Sucks Tez didn't make it this year but I gotta think he'll get in next year
No more dominant defensive players to deal with outside of Haley who he beat out on this ballot anyway.
Earl Thomas = God-send
Based off of who's available for enshrinement now versus first time eligibles next year
Earl Thomas = God-send
Cris Carter too he was hella good.
"I was 11 or 12 and Quinton was like 30. He was the only dude on the Pop Warner team who had a full mustache and a beard. And he used to drive to Pop Warner games. You're not supposed to be doing that. It was crazy." -Marshawn Lynch
I was just stating that he should be in there.
"I was 11 or 12 and Quinton was like 30. He was the only dude on the Pop Warner team who had a full mustache and a beard. And he used to drive to Pop Warner games. You're not supposed to be doing that. It was crazy." -Marshawn Lynch
How many years does a player have on the ballot before he's a no-go?
I’m pretty unfamiliar with the selection process.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
“It was a tough thing for me. I kicked two calls in the fourth quarter and I impacted the game and as an official you never want to do that. It left me with a lot of sleepless nights and I think about it constantly. I’ll go to my grave wishing that I’d been better. I know that I did my best at that time, but it wasn’t good enough. When we make mistakes, you got to step up and own them. It’s something that all officials have to deal with, but unfortunately when you have to deal with it in the Super Bowl it’s difficult.” Bill Levy
A.K.A. YOU JUST GOT DONE SO DIRTY AND I FEEL BAD ABOUT IT.
"I was 11 or 12 and Quinton was like 30. He was the only dude on the Pop Warner team who had a full mustache and a beard. And he used to drive to Pop Warner games. You're not supposed to be doing that. It was crazy." -Marshawn Lynch
Subject line, por favor.
And yeah that’s what he said. Thank you for the translation.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
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