Seahawks, Sounders FC Commissioning Study to Determine Viability of Grass Surface
by BrianL on Apr 13, 2011 9:56 AM PDT
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Joshua Mayers of the Times with the story
H/T to the folks over at SounderAtHeart
Before people start frothing at the mouth let's be clear that this is a joint effort from both the Sounders and the Seahawks. The current turf at Qwest Century Link Field likely will need to be replaced soon due to the usual wear-and-tear. The question at this stage is what that replacement will be.
Last week, the Sounders, Seahawks and First and Goal commissioned a study to see if grass could be a viable playing surface in the future. But whether it's grass or artificial turf, the days on the current surface are numbered.
"I would be surprised if we're playing on the same turf next year," said [Sounders General Manager Adrian] Hanauer, who claimed "timing and logistics" prevented a new installation before this season.
Many Sounders and soccer fans have been fairly clear that their preference is for a grass pitch, but the biggest strike against that is the fact that surface could be ground to bits with two professional sporting teams playing in often wet weather. Torn up fields can lead to injuries and honestly, who wants our playing surface to look like the Heinz Field Mudbowl? If grass happens, it's going to require improvements to the drainage system, hence the viability study.
Will the next playing surface be grass? Probably not, but that largely is due to three teams playing there in 2012 when the Huskies are forced to crash with the Hawks and Sounders while their stadium undergoes renovations. In the short term, we're likely looking at another field turf surface, though it's probably safe to say that it will be nicer than the one currently installed. Sounders ownership will want to at least meet FIFA's two-star rating.
Long-term, however, grass could be a very real possibility and is one that Seahawks fans shouldn't write off. There are very real benefits to a natural grass surface, and there are some very interesting inroads being made in the area of natural and synthetic hybrids. Studies have shown that the number of injuries on grass surfaces versus turf are roughly the same, the difference are the type of injuries sustained. Turf produces sprains and tears while grass produces more impact injures, think broken bones. Russell Okung's ankles would probably appreciate a move to grass.
Of course, putting grass down at Qwest Century Link our home stadium would do a small part to bolster a future US bid for a World Cup, and world class sporting events are cool so why not?
It probably won't happen in the next year or so, but grass at our home games could materialize and it may not be as bad as you fear.
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I just fear that if we switch to grass, then the field will end up like Soldier Field a lot of the time.
And we all know how poorly the Seahawks did in bad weather in Chicago.
For a world cup game I say do it
But it sure does rain a lot here. I have played more soccer than football and still play, but I absolutely prefer field turf to grass, at least on this side of the state. You always know exactly what you are gonna get when you step on the field.
But a perfect grass field is amazing, which is obviously what Qwest would have. That seattle rain / mud though…yech
Yeah I'm hoping they don't switch to grass
I know some football players like it- think it’s more purist or whatever – but I think it takes away from the game – too slippery, sloppy – it’s annoying to watch. I’d use a track meet as an analogy – you don’t want to come out and see the world’s best athletes run on a sand track right? they run on a rubber surface (or whatever it is) that allows them to get traction and be as fast as possible. That’s what I like to see at football games too.
by Danny Kelly on Apr 13, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Much of it will depend on the engineering.
Grass won’t go in unless they can figure out a way to keep the field in good shape despite bad weather. There’s no way Sounders or Seahawks ownership will spring for a playing surface that turns into a muddy mess whenever it rains.
yes, I have worn a football cleat.
And I respect why some football players want to play on grass. I preferred field turf over grass, but that’s just me.
Football cleats don’t help a whole lot if the ‘grass’ we’re speaking of is a sloppy mud pit though. It tends to rain here a lot. If they could figure out a way to keep the field in good condition it would be fine, but I don’t see that happening.
I disagree...
I played football for about 9 years or so, mostly on grass. My highschool however swapped out our grass field for field turf same time that UW put in theirs …and I hated that surface….obviously it is better than astroturf …but I really didn’t like it at all.
I’d take grass and the mud and slop any day.
I Bleed Blue and Green
The good news
Is that they’re pouring some research funds into this first. Given how meticulously Paul Allen and Co. approached the stadium’s sound-engineering, I have faith that they’ll end up with the best-fitting playing surface.
I've got ridiculous upside.
Should we amend our (my) current phrase to
In Pete, John and Paul We Trust?
It’s easier to just say In Pete and John We Trust…
sound-engineering?
The guy in that NFL video for best home field advantages said that the roof was not designed with acoustics in mind, and that it was just a byproduct, mostly of the cavernous umbrella that we have there in Qwest.
Yes...
Seahawks owner and Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen grew up in the Northwest attending University of Washington football games with his dad, who was a librarian at the school. Husky Stadium is notorious for crowd noise, so Allen wanted to replicate that atmosphere with an open-air venue for his team that was loud like the Kingdome, says Jon Niemuth, principal and design director for Qwest Field’s architect AECOM Ellerbe Becket.
The architect fulfilled Allen’s request, creating one of the league’s loudest stadiums, which can get nearly as noisy as a jet plane—135 decibels—and has disrupted visiting teams enough to induce 95 false-start penalties since 2005, the most in the NFL. Contributing greatly to the cacophony is the partial roof that covers 70 percent of the fans from the elements and reflects sound back to the field. Also, with the smallest footprint in the NFL, Qwest Field has a tight seating arrangement that puts fans really close to the field and concentrates their noise.
Thanks, Tag
Allen was very specific in how his team went about designing/constructing Qwest.
I've got ridiculous upside.
by Jacson Bevens on Apr 13, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Love it. Hoping "Clink" catches on. I find it hysterical.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Author of The Seahawks Asylum: http://seahawksblog.wordpress.com
by Nick Andron on Apr 13, 2011 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
How's life at the bottom of the standings?
by BrianL on Apr 13, 2011 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Haha
The Sounders got their first win last weekend, have played 3 home games to the Timbers none, and have played one more game then the TImbers. I don’t think you have much to gloat about.
Red Hot and Rolling
For the love of Okung...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4988136
http://www.bing.com/search?q=field+turf+acl+ankle+sprains&form=QBRE3
I would fully support the switch to natural grass, as it seems it is better on ankles and knees. I’ve suffered an ACL tear and I’ve been on the Qwest Field turf, though they were completely seperate occasions, it does seem almost like it is just a bit too soft and too springy; can’t say I’m all that surprised by these findings.
Okung didn't sprain his ankle because of the surface type.
On one occasion, it was because a teammate fell on it.
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, Phillip Taylor and Owen Marecic.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 13, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Does anyone remember the game in KC with Warren Moon at QB...
It was a monsoon and the field was a complete swamp. Damn that was fun to watch.
by central_scrutinizer on Apr 13, 2011 5:08 PM PDT reply actions
As someone with somewhat insider info
The drainage system would likely need a complete overhaul. Its something that I don’t know First and Goal (the arm of Vulcan enterprises that manages the stadium) wants to be known but there are already major problems at Qwest (and Safeco) with drainage systems built into the concourses (not really sure about the field). Its something they have been dealing with privately since the stadiums were completed and because of the public money invested in both projects they haven’t let it become known. The drainage systems built into the concrete structure are essentially non functional and need a complete overhaul. Changing the field surface and upgrading those drainage systems is probably not a viable option considering their other drainage issues. Next time you visit Qwest on a rainy day take a look at the joints between the walkway and floor in the tunnel areas leading from the concourse to the seating areas, particularly in the NW and Western areas, you will notice saturation and even water spraying from below the flooring panels as you step on them. The company I was working for was hired to coordinate laser scanning and GPR studies to determine the extent of the issues and it was basically determined that it was to expensive to actually fix and instead they decided to put it off and just use pumps to try and remove some of the water until it was imperative to fix it. I don’t see any way they could get away with upgrading the drainage under the field without fixing their other drainage problems which they don’t even want to publicly acknowledge. I also did all the layout work for the VMAC including all the drainage systems and have done many field replacements all over the west coast and can attest to the extreme makeover required to change to a grass surface. Its not something I see being an option for Qwest right now.
by CMoney87 on Apr 13, 2011 6:23 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
I should also add
That this would be a lengthy project. Its not as simple as removing the turf and laying out rolls of sod. The entire subsurface would need to be removed (a foot of compressed, crushed gravel) then the drainage upgrades (not just under the field but also all connecting lines), then a new subsurface (the gravel and then soil for grass) and then finally planting the grass. Replacing the field turf would cost about $500k changing to grass would cost millions and take months to complete.
by CMoney87 on Apr 13, 2011 6:38 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
All I wanna know is
Which surface best maximizes the 12th man’s voice?
:)
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, Phillip Taylor and Owen Marecic.
Old school astroturf
Not the field turf rip off stuff that astro turf uses now but that mini golf carpet style stuff. All the rubber in field turf probably acts like dynamat to dampen noise. Don’t know if it really works like that but it would be my guess.
by CMoney87 on Apr 13, 2011 9:40 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I've played around on both surfaces, only played actual football on grass.
And that was long ago, so it’s hard to compare. But I went back onto field turf just this past week. It somehow makes sense, the differences in the injuries. Like with field turf you can plant and cut better, leading to better leverage, and players with natural athletic advantages can win on account on their athleticism. With grass, particularly wet grass, it’s harder to stop, so the momentum is all top-heavy, which would explain harder collisions and subsequently more broken bones, though I’m sure the difference can’t be great.
Grass is an equalizer. It diminishes the athletic advantage a player has over his opponent. Teams with attrition strategies like the Steelers of course want to use grass. So I like turf better. It optimizes the game.
Carroll wants running & defense and so with the weather grass would seem fitting. Wouldn’t be prudent to tailor the field to the coach’s philosophy until he gets some more success. But it would seem to fit. But turf seems to fit, too. Get better athletes. Running game requires planting and cutting. Get good personnel for a running game, you’d want to maximize their abilities, right? And Carroll’s not ignoring the vertical game. So turf fits as well if not better.
Head of catering.
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