Matt Leinart, Pete Carroll, and the Seattle Seahawks
There have been a few articles out lately talking about Matt Leinart and his quest to start for a team in 2011. He's currently a free-agent - he was dropped by the Cardinals in the preseason last year, signed on with the Texans shortly after, and sat at third on their depth chart the rest of the year, mostly running the scout team.
Apparently, a change of scenery did him well, because he's now coming out claiming to have regained his confidence and pining for a team to take a chance on him. If any team were to do so, you'd think it would be the Seahawks - who, under the stewardship of Pete Carroll, have taken chances on a lot of forgotten players, but particularly Pete's forgotten players. Former Trojans LenDale White, Mike Williams, Josh Pinkard, Anthony McCoy, and now Dominique Byrd have been brought on to see what they can do. Pinkard, McCoy, and Williams have stuck, Byrd is on the practice squad but White was famously released. Even Dwayne Jarrett was brought in last season for a tryout. The point is, I wouldn't put it past the Hawks to bring Matt Leinart in to compete for a job.
People will point to the fact that he wasn't signed last year after being released by the Cardinals so there's no reason he would be brought in now, and that may be true, but circumstances have changed significantly since then and Charlie Whitehurst remains the only QB with a contract. Leinart's work ethic had been called into question earlier in his career and his lack of effort could be attributed to the ease at which Leinart had succeeded in the past. Two time national champion, Heisman trophy winner, 10th overall pick in the draft. The pieces were all landing in place. This is a breeze, just enjoy the ride.
However, after being usurped by Kurt Warner for the starting job in his 2nd season, losing out to Derek Anderson after Warner had retired, and finally getting dropped unceremoniously prior to 2010, his confidence and sense of entitlement had gone out the window and perhaps a year sitting on the bench of a new team, with new coaches and front office leadership has instilled a new perspective and the ethic of what it really takes to succeed. Who knows - but it sure would make a great story right?
No one really knows how the draft will turn out and what the Seahawks have up their sleeves, but I wouldn't necessarily count Leinart out of the equation. He can run the approximate system Pete Carroll wants to run - and won the Heisman doing so. Yes, he had all-world talent around him and a first-class line and run game to help him there, but somewhere down the line NFL level scouts and front offices determined he had the talent to warrant a top-10 pick. Not that those people are always right, but he has shown flashes of that talent amid the terrible play, and If that talent could be put to use in the right system, he could succeed.. theoretically.
As Leinart put it, "A lot of football is about being in the right situation at the right time with the right kind of people."
I think that's true, to a large extent, and can be said about pretty much any sport or really any profession. Sometimes, a particular situation just doesn't foster success. We've seen many players resurrect their careers by moving to a new team or system. It happens, plain and simple. Predicting who it happens to and how, though, is not easy.
I would have to think, of all the teams in the league, the 'right situation at the right time with the right kind of people' would most aptly describe the current state of the Seahawks. On paper, the Seahawks are more than right for Leinart. Now, is Leinart right for the Seahawks? THAT, my friends, is a 'whoooooole nother question,' as they say.
Steve Wyche recently did a piece on the Leinart situation as well, and here's what he had to say about his ability to still play in the NFL:
The first thing for Leinart to fix is his persona. He is viewed as numbingly laid back, which coaches have told me screams a lack of leadership to his teammates. That's fixable. I also had a defensive coach give me a scouting report on Leinart last season, and the most damning claim was that he was easy to intercept due to his lack of anticipation.
That's an issue with some college quarterbacks from great teams. Because their receivers get so open, they don't have to throw based on timing and can hit receivers in space. The defensive coach said not being able to figure that out while on the pass-happy Cardinals damaged Leinart. Again, that's fixable.
(Former Seahawks OC Greg) Knapp told me he loved working with Leinart, who he said was really humbled by being cut after such high expectations. Leinart worked as hard as any quarterback on the team, despite doing little other than learning and practicing scout team reps all week. Knapp said Leinart would stay late a lot of nights and come in early, or on days off, to learn and practice Houston's offense -- a trait he found not only professional but admirable.
I went back and watched some limited tape of Leinart and it's about what you'd expect: some good things and some really bad things. That being said, you can pretty much say that about any relatively inexperienced QB so I'm not necessarily counting him out completely. I think, at worst, it wouldn't be a terrible move to bring him in and see if he can succeed in the right situation at the right time with the right kind of people: a Seahawks team looking for a franchise quarterback at a time when they have no clear candidate in sight, being coached by a guy that has shown the willingness and ability to revitalize or resurrect careers of the forgotten and maimed.
Here's one pre-draft scouting report by Robert Davis of Football's Future on Leinart that you should read and then consider and compare to the noise going around about QB's right now entering the draft:
Leinart is one of the most polished passers to come out of the college ranks since Peyton Manning. His ability to read defenses is second to none at the college level. USC even gave him the opportunity to call audibles at the line of scrimmage any time he wanted because of his ability to see what was developing. He has excellent timing with his receivers, and can put the ball on the money in any situation. His career completion percentage is just under 65%. Leinart has excellent touch and can float it in, or sling it into coverage if needed. He is also a good athlete for a player his size, and shows solid mobility inside the pocket. He is not a threat to run it, though he did run for six touchdowns this year, but he can avoid the rush and throw on the run once outside the pocket. What sets Leinart apart though is his leadership ability. He's played in big games every year, and more often than not, he came out on top. He will not make mistakes to cost you the game, and comes through when the game is on the line.
Some of the things he was lauded on pre-draft aren't things that go away - ability to diagnose defenses and change plays at the line, touch on the ball, timing with receivers. These things are important, and even though he hasn't lived up to his billing and has heretofore been a major disappointment, this doesn't mean he can't still succeed as an NFL quarterback.
He's a long shot - and if it doesn't work and he just doesn't have what it takes, it's not the end of the world. Just another in a long line of transactions to put on the ole' waiver wire for the Seahawks.
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I think it speaks volumes that everyone is talking about Leinert except PC.
It’s not like PC doesn’t know he’s out there and available. Unless Leinert is asking for the sun and the moon to sign (something I seriously doubt) PC has nothing to lose bringing him to compete for the position. But he hasn’t, at least not yet, and I am betting there is a darn good reason.
Yeah, my thinking is that this doesn't happen.
But it is an interesting idea anyway. They could get him cheaper now than they would have been able to last year I would guess.
by Danny Kelly on Apr 15, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Beats the hell out of paying an excess for Kolb, who is a UFA one year later anyway.
I’m all for it, and I can’t see Pete NOT trying it unless he knows something we don’t.
At least we know there would be no “free ride.” He’s already proven a willingness to cut USC guys if they don’t bring it, so why not bring in Leinhart to compete.
What if we simply took the highest ceiling players, who fit ANY system, and worked out the details later? If we do go that route, there’s no way you can convince me Ponder is a good choice in the 1st round.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 15, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not that so many people are against it,
so much that he’s just going to end up cut or buried on the depth chart anyway.
Recently engaged! Best. Off-season. Ever.
no news on any FA's with the labor mess.
IIRC, there was a brief period where players who had been cut/waived or on the street could sign, but those hitting FA were only allowed to talk with their current team. Plausible reason we haven’t heard any team chatter is because it would be tampering (which still goes on, but stays on the DL)
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
Exactly
They can’t sign him or talk about him until the FA period begins since he was on the HOU roster to end the year. I fully expect PC to take a look at Leinert and wouldn’t be surprised if they have met for coffee to talk about everything but football (wink, wink).
I don't know why but that wink wink in parenthesis made me laugh out loud.
I’m in a weird mood. But I agree – you haven’t heard anything about it because they’re not allowed to talk. It is interesting that they didn’t go get him last year though… makes me kind of doubt they’ll change their mind but you never know.
I can see them doing it now that time's passed and it's a different situation.
The timing was bad last year. Leinart’s release was out of the blue for most Cards fans – doubt Carroll/Schnieder saw it coming either. They had already made their play for Whitehurst, been through camp, and publicly endorsed the QB situation. Things were actually looking good to start the year.
it’s one thing to take no risk flyers on guys from the USC scrap-heap, acquire a career back-up who would push but not immediately supplant Hass (even his biggest supporters feared CW quickly thrown to the wolves), or to churn the 3rd stringers on cut day. Bringing in Leinart is something else entirely. His draft status, experience, and history w/ Carroll combined with the questions about Hass, plus Lienart openly saying he’s still a starter (before realizing there’s no market and settling on the HOU gig) – and it would’ve been harder to justify sitting him, since the way he was continually yanked in ARZ instead of being allowed to play was considered a big part of his problems. IMO, getting Leinart last year would’ve been putting a lot on the line, and not worth the headache starting off Pete’s first year.
Since he sat a year and faded from view, IMO it’s much easier to get him with a clear “gotta earn it” understanding (especially if the team drafts a QB too)
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
Yeah - excellent points
You’re right about that – i remember he did “expect” to start somewhere, then settled for Houston because there was no market. intriguuuuuing.
Heck, lets bring in JaMarcus Russell and Alex Smith along with Leinert...
…re-sign Nate Davis, and along with Charle Whitehurst and Ryan Mallett, lets see who end up the top 3.
Cause Kolb is going to be to darn expensive (he is demanding a multi-year big contract in a trade)
so it behooves PC/JS to work some BMW magic on one of these guys and see how is the most motivated, highly skilled, and effective on the field of play.
Niners have an offer on the table for Smith already.
And when your “life coach” bails on you, might not be ready to compete for a NFL roster. (Not to mention he was nearly 300 lbs when he tried out for the Dolphins.)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6357731
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
Yeah, I agree that competition is good and I'm all for bringing in cast-offs - I love it
but Jarmarcus is doneski. He’s huge.
Didn't see that - thanks for sharing.
The last I heard was that he was working hard and looking to come back, ala BMW. But sounds like that ship has more than sailed.
another long shot ex usc guy I think they should bring back for another tryout this fall
but I want them to bring Dwayne Jarrett back in for another tryout this fall. He’d be practically free!
I wrote this a few months ago and it’s mostly pie in the sky stuff, but why not?
http://seehock.blogspot.com/2011/03/mike-williams-reclamation-project-2011.html
When Lucas Drops You Are Officially A D-Bag
Nuff said.
by JRock419 on Apr 15, 2011 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What do Garrison Hearst, Simeon Rice, Thomas Jones and Leonard Davis have in common?
All were first-round flame-outs in Arizona, then thrived after leaving the Cardinals. Obviously past results are not guarantees of future performance, but on the other hand, I’d love to have an opportunity to gloat against a division rival.
by Suburban Shocker on Apr 15, 2011 1:09 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I think Leinart is worth a shot, I would even like it if we got alex smith. Both have potential in the right situations.
by jgettman on Apr 15, 2011 2:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Matt Leinart, yes.
Alex Smith, no.
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, Phillip Taylor and Owen Marecic.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 15, 2011 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Even Jake Plummer
had a (moderately) better career after leaving Arizona. It must be something in the desert water.
I think they should at least
take a really good look at him. I must admit, ever since mike williams turned out so big for us this year, i have been wondering about player placements and the effect it has on their career.
Take for example Tom Brady. I doubt that without Bellichick and all the other aspects of the New England Patriots, that Brady would be the great qb he is today. The minute every day happenstances make such a big impact on player ability, to say that Brady would have excelled to the level he plays in Boston, in Cleveland or Seatle doesn’t really hold water with me. With that in mind, and not to say that Matt Leinert is going to be tom Brady, it doesn’t really make sense to not at least look at Leinert and Young as potential candidates for QB. With all the holes in our system that need help, why miss a chance at another mike williams, who obviously found some sort of gvoove last year, and was our number one reciver. And judging by my understanding of his contract, he is very much under PC’s thumb (physicality and production wise), and therefore must perform to remain.
I understand that some players just drop of the face of the NFL because they suck and can’t compete. But i wonder about those that don’t succeed because they just haven’t found the right motivation or help to be the person that the media convinced them they were going to be. Both Vince Young and Leinart are amazing athletes who have not lived up to their lofty predictions. If, somehow these people represented real potential, imagine the missed opportunities.
Just one of those things I think.
I’m putting my trust in Pete Carroll. If we sign him, that means that Carroll thinks he can work up some old USC magic. If not, then maybe he really does know something.
In either case, PC and JS are gonna do what they think is best. I’m gonna go with it and cheer ’em on all the way.
Matt Leinart is nothing without Norm Chow
To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.
I'm one of the few people on the Cardinals blog who think he can still be good
I think a lot of what went wrong for him with us was that he never seemed to get along with Whisenhunt very well, and I think that the offense Denny Green ran in his rookie year was a better fit for him (and he did show the potential to become a pretty good QB in his rookie year on a team that was not very good that year), and the Quarterback Carousel in 2007 along with the injury probably affected him mentally. I still have a hard time seeing how Whisenhunt thought that Derek Anderson was a better option than Leinart.
I don’t think he will ever be a great QB right now, and he is a Bust for us, but in the right system I think he can be a decent QB (something like 3,500 yards, 22 TDs, 12 Ints over a full season), and I am interested in seeing what he does wherever he winds up. He could get it together if he winds up with you guys and his old coach from USC since he knows the offense like you said.
Although if you guys did get him, and he winds up reviving his career, I would be very frustrated that he couldn’t do that in Arizona instead.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Thanks for the visit, and the thoughts.
Given what you wrote, it seems even more strange that PC doesn’t give the guy a shot. What does either of them have to lose? Seattle needs a QB in the biggest way, and signing a guy cheap in dollars and draft picks seems to make a lot of sense.
"Knows the offense"
It’s a different offense from what was run at USC during Leinart’s day.
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, Phillip Taylor and Owen Marecic.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 15, 2011 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
The main post said that he knows the kind of offense that Petey wants to run
Thats what I was going with.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
It has similar philosophies and terminology (I think)
Obviously I don’t have their playbook but Pete said he was going down using ‘his offense’ so I doubt it’s very different than what he implemented at USC
Bevell is a WCO-oriented OC.
Lane Kiffin, who was the OC while Leinart was there, is said to run a pro-style offense, whatever that may mean; his offensive system isn’t clearly defined. In having watched his offenses, he’s never been one to use the pass to set up the run as a staple in his philosophy, which is what the WCO is based on. So, no, philosophically speaking, they’re not likely to be similar.
In practicality, each coach, while using many similar terminologies, tends to have his own.
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, Phillip Taylor and Owen Marecic.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 16, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
From everything I have read and my personal opinion of it all:
The Hawks (ie, Pete Carroll) want to use the run to set up the pass, basically the opposite of the basic WCO you mentioned. Bevell has history in the WCO, but I think Cable was brought in to implement Carroll’s idea of using the run to set up the pass.
I personally don’t think that Bevell will have the leverage to install exactly what he wants to anyway, it will be dictated by Carroll’s vision. Bevell will be able to install his own plays and whatnot, but philosophically speaking they’ll be using Pete Carroll’s offense, which is a form evolved from what he’d been doing for the last decade or so at USC- whether it was with Chow, Kiffin, Bates, or Sarkisian.
Besides, a lot of what Bevell did in Minnesota was using the run to set up the big play pass, especially with Favre/Peterson the last two seasons.
Peterson has the same sort of effect on a WCO that Shaun Alexander did.
Even Holmgren got away from using the pass to set up the run in 2004 and 2005, so it’s probably a matter of flexibility in approach, even if the root of the philosophy is still ingrained.
If we can hold that to be indicative and true of Bevell, then it would likely suggest that he’s flexible enough to use the run to set up of the pass, even if his system is philosophically different, so maybe you’re right.
However, in the WCO, those types offenses tend spread the field horizontally with precision timing/rhythm routes, where the emphasis is on yards after the catch. I’ve never seen a Lane Kiffin offense primarily spread the field horizontally while emphasizing yards after the catch, even if he does use timing routes in his system.
I doubt that if Leinart is acquired, that it’s going to be the same offensive approach to which he’s familiar with during his days at USC.
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, Phillip Taylor and Owen Marecic.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 16, 2011 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah - I guess the 'similar offense' arguing point is pretty low on the list in terms of the reasons Leinart should come here
because I don’t know exactly what Pete has in mind for ‘11 and it may be completely different than what him and Leinart did at USC.
At worst though I guess, and maybe it’s more important than that anyway- they have worked together in the past so that can’t hurt the chemistry and it seems like Leinart needs a place where he’s got the support and rapport with the coaching staff – something he never really enjoyed in AZ.
I agree, it can't hurt. I don't see why he can't be brought in on a tryout basis.
I think under Denny Green, he might have enjoyed a better support and rapport with the coaching staff, but I would agree that there appears to be some merit that he didn’t get that under Whisenhunt.
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, Phillip Taylor and Owen Marecic.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 16, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Kiffin was co OC with Sarkisian only in Leinart's final year
and they were still running a modified version of Norm Chow’s offense.
The Seahawks offense last year is what USC’s offense gradually turned into after Norm left and is definitely different from the offense that Leinart played under.
To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.
If we do sign him and he ends up working out...
We need to upgrade at right tackle to protect his blindside. Locklear wouldnt get him thru 1 game.
Or does Okung move to the right?
The whole point of putting the most athletic lineman at LT is to protect the blind side… so if the blind side is on the right, why not put him there?
by Suburban Shocker on Apr 15, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
That's my one big hang-up with taking a flyer on him
I’m usually all for low-risk moves, but the Lefty thing throws a wrench in it. Especially after we seemingly won the lotto and got our quality LT. Right side of the OL is in the air – Locklear’s a swinging gate, and you only hope but not expect Andrews regains some of his Cincy form.
If only it were as simple as swapping sides. Some OTs are naturals and do it easily – others are more comfortable on a given side and their instincts & fundamentals drop when switched (see Locklear as an example). I have no clue which one Okung is, but I’d hate to mess around with his development to find out – especially for a question mark as big as Lienart. And if Okung does stay at LT with a lefty-QB and the strong & weak sides of the formation switch, then you’ve just erased a big chunk of the 6th overall pick’s value by minimizing his pass blocking and emphasizing his run blocking.
"I'm tired of chasing after my dreams. I'll just find out where they're going, and catch up later." - Hedberg
I think if they were serious about Leinart
They would find a solid RT. I dont see them moving Okung. Does it minimize his value? Sure, but if they believe Leinart were the future at QB then decreasing Okung’s draft value is at the back of their minds I would think. Having a good QB is the most important thing in the NFL, period. Okung is still a really really great player to have on your line.
I actually remember this came up when Denver drafted Tebow and whether the Broncos would have to flip their alignment to accommodate him
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
Reply fail
but the conclusion that the ESPN guys who were writing the article came to was that statistically teams don’t actually change their tendencies when facing southpaw quarterbacks. Now I have no idea why that might be true, but I suppose you could find the logic in it if you expended enough effort.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
Purposefully or not, I think the acquiring and dropping of White can be a key for Pete Carroll.
I think his former players might think, to some extent, “Old coach Pete won’t drop me! He’ll give me a chance, he knows I’m the man!”
Nope. If you are lazy, you will get cut. White was lazy, Williams was not, and everybody would rather be in Mikes position than in LenDales.
If Leinart is signed, I think the Seahawks would at least be a place that’s going to get the most out of him. Whether the most out of him equals a starter or not, we won’t know.
Seattle is without question the best place for Leinart
Given his familiarity with PC and the offense they want to run. Now, whether Seattle agrees is the multi-million dollar question. I’d have no issue with them bringing him in and letting him compete with TD Jesus this year and skipping QB in the draft – except for a late round flier.
yeah, - they might even think about bringing him in
to compete with TDJ for the starting job and put their newly drafted QB at 3rd on the depthchart for a year or so to get adjusted. I’d hate to see our rookie out there in year one, unless it was mallett. But even then, it’s a scary proposition.
I'm all for giving him a flier
He wasn’t the worst QB on the planet as a Cardinal. The only problem is that he’s a (sinister) lefty and that would complicate protection schemes. Other than that, I’d be happy to have him as the 3rd QB challenging for backup/starting.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 15, 2011 5:54 PM PDT reply actions
On a tryout basis, shoots, what have the Seahawks got to lose?
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, Phillip Taylor and Owen Marecic.
Well, a roster spot, for one, and playing time, for another.
Not so worried about the first, since the team only has one QB under contract. But let’s say they snag Leinart, and then a QB in the draft. They already have Charlie. All three QB’s are going to need snaps. The team needs to know what it has from Charlie, and they won’t see what Leinart has either unless he gets some throws… and of course, the draft pick needs as much immediate practice experience as possible.
A tryout?
No, that lasts a couple of weeks tops, if that. Sometimes, only days.
If the tryout goes well, the Seahawks like the player enough, they would then offer a contract, which would then count as a roster spot if signed.
Covets: Mark Ingram, Marcell Dareus, Prince Amukamara, Rodney Hudson, Phillip Taylor and Owen Marecic.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 16, 2011 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I say give him a chance.
Other QB’s have had rough starts with their first teams and go on to have good careers with another team. Like Steve Young and Brett Favre.
Can't get the reply button to work.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter about roster spots or the number of QBs brought in to camp, all that matters is who ends up sticking.
Starter, of course (Mallett, Leinert, Palmer, Hasselbeck, CW – whoever).
Back-up guy – I think this is the perfect place for CW, unless he wins the starting gig.
Development guy – ideally, the guy drafted this year, even if its Mallett or Locker.
Point is, Seattle needs a starting QB, and it hopefully (IMO) be CW or Hasselbeck. If Leinert can win the job, great. You just got a starting QB for nothing (in terms of draft picks). If Locker or Mallett are drafted at 25, Seattle could still trade for Palmer, but at a non-desperate rate. Given Palmer’s insistence on only be traded to Seattle, he has really put Cincy over a barrel. No reason Seattle shouldn’t take advantage and get Palmer as cheap as possible, because he’s not the future (more than a year or two).
Kolb will be too expensive and he won’t be worth it.
It sounds like Leinert is getting his shit together, and if so, it could be a good deal for Seattle.

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