NFL Draft Grades 2011: The Completely Futile Exercise in Grading The Seahawks' Draft Only Hours After It Has Ended
by Danny Kelly on Apr 30, 2011 5:50 PM PDT
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PrintRound 1, Pick 25 (25) James Carpenter OL 6'4" 321 Alabama
I like this pick a lot. People will say that we overdrafted on this one but the truth is we got a starting right tackle that has the ability to bump over to the guard position with ease. He's athletic, plays with a mean streak, and should help improve the run game. Dirtbag number one.
Round 3, Pick 11 (75) (From Lions) John Moffitt G 6'4" 319 Wisconsin
Another offensive lineman with the Seahawks second pick. A road-grading Big-Ten guard, he plays with intensity and should help in the run game as well. Dirbag number two.
Round 4, Pick 2 (99) (From Broncos through Patriots) K.J. Wright LB 6'3" 246 Mississippi St.
To be honest I don't know a whole lot about K.J. Wright but what I hear about him I like. He's raw, can play at both the strongside linebacker position and the LEO pass rushing end. The latter might be more likely as he ran a 4.7 forty and has an 80-inch wingspan. He'll most likely just provide depth this season but I like his upside down the line and he's a good tool to have on defense because of his versatility.
Round 4, Pick 10 (107) (From Lions) Kris Durham WR 6'5" 214 Georgia
Durham is a sure-handed, rangy wide receiver that has good acceleration, top straight line speed in the 4.4's, and should compete in the slot or perhaps on the outside as a deep threat. He averaged over 20 yards per catch his senior year at Georgia so he could be a little bit of both. He'll have to beat out Ben Obomanu for time on the field but I like the selection.
Round 5, Pick 23 (154) (From Chiefs through Lions) Richard Sherman DB 6'3" 195 Stanford
A wide receiver turned cornerback late in his college career, Sherman possesses ball skills commensurate with those of a wide receiver but also excels in press man coverage and re-routing receivers off the line. He's got great size for a cornerback and I'm excited to see how he works out.
Round 5, Pick 25 (156) Mark Legree FS 6'0" 210 Appalachian St.
A ball-hawking safety that brought down 22 interceptions in his college career. He is another versatile playmaker for the Hawks' secondary and it will be very interesting to see where he ends up. He could play either safety position or even contribute in nickel and bandit packages so he stands to see some playing time in year one.
Round 6, Pick 8 (173) (From Lions) Byron Maxwell DB 6'0" 202 Clemson
The third straight defensive back taken for the Hawks here. Good size, aggressive mean streak on the field, and excels on special teams. I see him in a Roy Lewis role - special teams ace, possible bandit package contributor. It's nice to see the Hawks bolstering their secondary with big playmakers.
Round 7, Pick 2 (205) (From Broncos through Lions) Lazarius Levingston DL 6'4" 292 LSU
A bit of a headscratcher at first, but the more I read about him the more satisfied I am with the pick. He's a good athlete at 6'4 292 and projects by most outlets as a 5-tech, run stuffing defensive end. He has the capability to move to the inside but I think the Hawks have picked him with the role of backing up Red Bryant in mind. His combine video re-cap makes me feel a little better about him as it seems he can move around pretty well for his size.
Round 7, Pick 39 (242) (Compensatory Selection) Malcolm Smith OLB 6'0" 225 USC
Value pick for a weakside linebacker that can immediately contribute on special teams. He's an aggressive, intense linebacker and is a freak athlete. Pete Carroll knows Smith well from his days at USC and if Will Herring doesn't return you could possibly see Smith in certain packages for passing situations. Probably the fasted linebacker in the draft this year.
I'm excited to see what Tom Cable can do with Moffitt and Carpenter on our O-Line. I think that K.J. Wright has a lot of potential as a LEO end a year or two down the line and paired with Dexter Davis our future OLB/DE depth looks decent. Durham, though it can be argued that he would have been available later, still seems like a good pick. He's got prototypical size, sinewy strength and no fear going across the middle. His hands are solid and he'll be a big target for whoever the hell is going to be throwing the ball for the Seahawks in 2011.
Richard Sherman is probably my favorite pick. He's got through the roof upside - he's physical, big, can jam at the line or trail receivers, and is super raw after only playing CB for two years. He is a bit of a project but could be a steal in the 5th round. Mark LeGree is another pick that I really like. Another ballhawking safety in the secondary should translate to more turnovers for the Hawks' defense and could be just what the Pete Carroll "bend but don't break" defense needs. The Hawks gave up way too many touchdowns last season with way too few interceptions so this is another value pick in my head. Paired on the field with Earl Thomas the Hawks' could really get creative in what they show the offense. I am looking forward to seeing where he ends up though - whether he'll be backing up Earl Thomas or competing for the spot next to him at strong safety. He could surely play in nickel and bandit packages as well. Byron Maxwell is a special teams freak that could eventually work his way onto the field and has the physical measurables you like to see.
The defensive secondary is pretty crowded at the moment and it will be really interesting to see what shakes out there with Marcus Trufant, Kam Chancellor, Walter Thurmond, Roy Lewis, Kennard Cox, Josh Pinkard, Marcus Brown, Brandon Browner, James Brindley, Richard Sherman, Mark LeGree, and Byron Maxwell jockeying for a spot on the roster. The Hawks play 5, 6, and 7 DB sets seemingly constantly so I'm sure this stockpiling is no mistake.
Pep Levinston is a 5-tech backup for Red Bryant and seems to be a good body type for it. He's quick, big, tall and uses his hands well to disengage blocks and stop the run. It's pretty damn hard to find a guy Red's size that can move like he can, so Levingston might work. Malcolm Smith will be a good special teamer and could work his way onto the field down the road.
All in all, how do I feel about this draft?
Pretty good. PRITttttttyyyyyyyyyyyyy... preeeeetttyyy, pretttttyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, .. pretty good.
But not great. Picked up a lot of solid players and the line will look a lot better. The secondary got some skill players as well. There's still a lot of work to do though. I'd probably tentatively grade it at about a B- but really who cares? It will take us a couple years to see how this class pans out so in the meantime it will be fun to see what happens in free agency.
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I grade it out as
Super Bowl bound.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
by hazbro24 on Apr 30, 2011 5:57 PM PDT reply actions 9 recs
Okay, glad you put this up for discussion, because I think I see the plann...
Let’s go through every unit.
RBs – young, talented, diverse. Without major injury, potentiall set for years (2-5 say)
WRs- middle aged (BMW) and young, talented, diverse. ditto on longivity.
OL – 4/5 starters young and highly regarded. Could be the core of the offense for 8-10 years.
TEs – young, talented, diverse. Set for years.
Secondary – a crap-load of young, athletic players. Can’t call them talented (in terms of starting caliber talent) but assume Milloy is gone and Trufant on his last legs. Every other guy has the potential to start at some point, and contribute very soon in the bandit.
LBs – with this draft, the aging Tatupu has been potentially replaced, leaving a young and potentially talented group, especially if Curry ever gets it.
That leaves two major positions – D-line and QB – that haven’t been rejuvinated yet with young talent. But every other position has been staffed with younger, bigger, faster, more athletic talent then we have seen…ever.
To me, that is what this draft was about. They picked late every round. They wanted Moffit with their 2nd round pick and were able to trade down 18 spots, pick up an extra 4th, move up in the 6th and 7th, and still get their guy.
Worse case – CW starts next year. That won’t be the end of the world.
Gallery in FA (stop gap for the next couple of years), and perhaps Palmer (same year or two temporary gig until they get a shot at a young guy like Bradford, for instance).
After this draft, I am less inclined to think they go hard after a CB or WR. I would rather see the guys they have get a chance to see the field and find out who can play (looking at you, Tate) and who can’t.
by Hawksince77 on Apr 30, 2011 6:07 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Yeah getting young has been the plan since the beginning
That was kind of lost in last year’s shuffle. It’s good. At allays fears that Pete is overfocused on win now
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
The D line could use depth.
But when healthy they were top five…before Red, then Cole, then Mebane went down. If they weren’t healthy and coming back it would have been addressed.
All the skill positions are good, young, and fast. I expect a good season.
And next years draft:
R1: QB (Luck or Barkley hopefully—trade picks if need be)
then: DE stud rusher
then: OL depth —one more 3rd rounder
then: Super Bowl.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
I think the d-line has good-fair starters, but they aren't young.
Middle-aged (Mebane, should he be re-signed, Bryant, Clemons, Cole). I am unaware of young talented up-and-coming talent sitting behind them.
They've got 3-4 seasons worth of good ball left.
Start drafting their replacements next year and it will be seamless.
I like how we’re moving, building the base and and then reloading ala the Stealers and Patriots.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Bryant and Mebane are 26
That’s not exactly the rookie age range but is that already middle-aged? They should have at least 4-5 years of peak skill left in them, injury issues aside
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Middle-aged in that they can no longer be considered foundational players for the future...
…in my arbitrary way of thinking.
Fairly arbitrary
Planning for further than 5 years in the future is folly, unless you have a franchise QB in place. Even then, the NFL’s too cyclical.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Not neccesarilly
with the parody in the NFL the Hawks can become really competitive in 2 or 3 years, around 30 is where I start writing players off as year to year
I think you mean "parity"
. . . unless that was intentional, in which case, good on you.
by The Ancient Mariner on Apr 30, 2011 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Hell, Philly just drafted a 27 year old rookie.
26 on the line is prime time.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
The Seahawks missed an opportunity to get an actual interior pass rush.
We essentially traded the #57 pick for John Moffitt and WR Kris Durham….there were plenty of decent 3-tech DTs available at #57, and I’m pretty bummed out that we missed out on all of them. Now, I’m not saying we have bad d-line; IF we re-sign Brandon Mebane and IF Red Bryant can stay healthy and IF Chris Clemons and Raheem Brock (if he is even re-signed) all produce in a similar way to how they did last season, THEN perhaps we won’t get crushed again like we did against the Giants and Chiefs and Raiders and Falcons and Buccaneers last season.
Those are a lot of IFs. I think our dedication to “smashmouth football” has cost us a chance to realistically improve the defense (and, oh yeah, we still need to get a QB). I’m not too thrilled with this draft.
We drafted 5-tech and Leo depth
I, too, would’ve preferred more investing in the D-Line, and since Moffitt is a talent that we would’ve been fine taking at 57, we didn’t lose much there.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions
My apologies to Justin Forsett, but I don't hold the 7th round in high regard.
Is Wright being exclusively developed to become a LEO end? That’s good….doesn’t help with interior pass rush, though. Moffitt might be a fine, fine player, but the d-line is expensive to upgrade, and there were PLENTY of scheme-appropriate prospects to choose from, and we skipped them all.
I’m not saying this is a bad draft, but even with Mebane re-signed a lack of an upgrade up the middle WILL bite us in our ass next season.
Yes
But we had so many holes, some hole that would bite us in the ass was bound to be left. It was a choice between evils. Can’t be helped.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I think we chose the wrong hole to gill.
Not saying that o-line is not important, but other than LT most DTs are more valuable than guards and RTs. If we used our 2nd rounder on a 3-tech and our 4th rounder on a guard — maybe not Moffitt but, c’mon, someone nearly as good — we’d be in a better place right now. No doubt in my mind.
I don't know.
Last year with a healthy DL, they did a good to great job. That being said, can’t say they will not be injuried again this year, but at least they are good when healthy. Now the secondary on the other hand was overall healthy and they were flat out bad. A few bright spots, but overall got picked apart. I understand that if we got pressure on the QB the secondary would look better. But when the secondary trades 3rd and longs for 1st downs like it’s New England in the draft, it’s a crime. He have to start somewhere and the secondary and OL are as good as any. Just my 2 cents…not worth alot.
by bonecruncher on Apr 30, 2011 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't buy the "Red Bryant made this defense awesome" argument.
I think, by the time Bryant did get hurt, other teams figured out how to exploit our weaknesses. Bryant’s injury was bad, but it was a coincidence our defense fell apart at about the same time.
The defense now is not dissimilar to the one we ran in 2007; biggest difference is that we had a consistent pass rush that season (and that doesn’t just mean a bunch of sacks from our defenseive ends). Going from Brandon Mebane & Rocky Bernard to Colin Cole and Mebane has been a SEVERE decrease in interior pass rush.
I can buy that.
We’ll have to wait and see.
by bonecruncher on Apr 30, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
It wasn't just Bryant going down.
Mebane was already out, and Cole went down in the same game. Our DL was pretty solid in games where we had 2 out of 3 of those guys playing, with the exception of the Tampa Bay game.
by Mind of no mind on Apr 30, 2011 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
And in the famous SD second-half massacre
we played them tight for the first half and then had troubles when Mebane, Curry and Trufant all went down at the same time, which put WTIII into a starter’s role when he was unprepared.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on May 1, 2011 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I disagree
Even with a good defense, you will lose many games when the offense makes the D stay on the field for over half the time the ball is in play. No matter how good your defense is you will wear down, and so we need a power run game. I personally don’t really think that the picks we made or equivalents would be there later on in the draft.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Apr 30, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
There were plenty of games last season when we were down early.
“Tired Defense” situations really aren’t that common, and improving the rushing game will have a marginal effect on the defense, at best.
Improving the interior pass rush will have a less than marginal effect on the offense, at best.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Seahawks couldn't have possibly address every single issue with this draft.
Remember that it’s likely going to be a process of rebuilding that is going to take several years.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is correct,
and remember that there is still free agency as well as the opportunity to pick up undrafted players.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Regarding Raheem Brock
Let’s say I’m Raheem Brock. For the better part of the last 5 years, I have been used to backup and cover someone in front of me, essentially a journeyman. Now I come to Seattle and not only do I play I get a fair chance and after half a season (more or less) I start and I produce numbers that are well shocking! If I go anywhere else I may one day start one or two games at best, especially considering my age. Now if I sign with the hawks, yeah I might not get the money I can elsewhere….. but I have a legitimate chance of competing, and starting again. Now what would I do?
$$$
I’m not Raheem Brock, but if I were a veteran NFL journeyman, I’d want the money to compensate for the absolute beating I was taking getting those good numbers.
by aarendsvark on Apr 30, 2011 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
"The Seahawks missed an opportunity to get an actual interior pass rush."
According to you. According to Schneider, the talent gap between the upper and lower tiered DT’s and DE’s was enormous. So, we filled a position of need with a good player, and didn’t reach for a possible Craig Terrill.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 6:50 AM PDT up reply actions
By upgrading the O-line
We hopefully have upgraded our defense, in that hopefully the offense will be able to stay on the field more. IMO, the Falcons really do a lot right – boring offensive football that has a lot of clock-eating 9-13 play drives that end in touchdowns.
Is Barkley really that amazing, to project as worthy of "franchise QB" level talk?
I hear a lot of talk about him, is it because he was Pete’s guy, or because he deserves to be there. Honestly, I’d rather bring Leinhart in for a tryout at this point, then go with a newer, Lane Kiffin tainted USC product.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I think so
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2009 211 352 2735 59.9 7.77 75 15 14 17 131.32
2010 236 377 2791 62.6 7.40 61 26 12 16 141.18
That first year was as a true freshmen and neither year did he have much elite talent around him. They were good, but only because he was carrying them. He has had some injury issues though.
Fair enough.
We’ll have to see what he looks like 50 weeks from now.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Tatupu is aging?
He’s only 28.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
With noticeable injury/age-related decline
It’d be nice if he comes back to a pro bowl level, but that’s selling the skin before we shot the bear.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree that it's time to start training his replacement,
but if we have a short offseason, it’s going to be important that we keep him around to help the new guys.
by Mind of no mind on Apr 30, 2011 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Injury, sure.
Age? He’s right in his prime.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
He should be in his prime in the typical lifecycle
It is a real possibility that he is an early peaking player, and is consequently declining early. They exist.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Especially if you start out already slow
Players naturally slow down as they age, and it’s possible (especially with all the injuries) that the ends will no longer justify the means, and he will become to slow to start.
If his production doesn’t pick up, he’ll soon become too expensive to keep on this team.
Go look at his contract.
He’s well below market value.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe; it's not like I want the Seahawks to cut himright away, or anything.
But if he’s not as hood as Hawthorne, then he’s just in the way. I’d LOVE it if Lofa had a rebound season this year, but that would be going against Father Time.
If we can trade Lofa this offseason, I say we do it.
He's 28, with no evidence of age-related decline, and you are citing that as a basis of going against Father Time?
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
So you're saying that Lofa is just as good now as he was in 2006 or 2007?
Not everyone ages the same way; for some people 28 is incredibly young and a person’s physical peak. But some could say that Lofa started out his NFL already at his peak (and already being smaller than most linebackers), and the position he plays takes A LOT of hits.
It’s entirely possible Lofa is one of those guys who needs a cane to walk around when he’s in his early 40’s. Lofa is a 28-tear-old who, in a way, has been in dozens of car accidents in his lifetime. Not everyone can take that kind of beating and remain a really good football player.
Did I actually say that?
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, decline is decline, if it's "age-related" or "injury-related"
Yes, at 28-years-old Lofa isn’t old. But there is a natural decline after one’s “peak” and it appears that Lofa has entered such a decline, because he’s ism’t as productive even when healthy.
So let’s call it “post-peak decline” instead.
Possible, sure, be we can't know that.
But at 28, I have time calling that an age that’s “aging.”
Were he, say, 32, I can probably get on board with that.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
The average career length for a running back is 4 1/2 years.
I wouldn’t say a 27-year-old RB is “old,” either, but…..historically it could be said that said player is facing the downside of his career. Shaun Alexander wasn’t old in 2006, but his career was over in two years.
I really do hope I’m wrong, btw.
Tatupu is not a running back.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Verbatim? Are you sure you're using that right?
I think the word you mean is “literal”, and if so, it’s because the things you are saying are flawed.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Really, you know this, how?
How have you been able to definitively ascertain this?
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
So, the basis of your definitive conclusion is one of relativity and subjectivity with no grounds in any objective form of measurement?
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Other people with eyes have said the same thing.
Lofa is injury-prone (which there is no doubt), and he is noticeably slower and less agile than he used to be. He has the brains of an all-pro, but his body is starting to lag, and and as time goes on the human body gets naturally slower, not faster (and it doesn’t help that he gets hit about 100 times a year).
I've not seen anyone say that he has aged to a body similar to that of a 38-year old man.
He’s had injury-related issues, yes. It is likely that he has declined due to that. But aging? You are reaching definitive conclusions based on speculation on no objective form of measurement.
Further, you aren’t giving any context to Lofa’s situation at all. You aren’t giving any consideration to the degree of decline, the degree of loss of physical abilities, and so on.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Also let's put aside the illusion that Lofa was slow coming into the league
He did not have elite speed, but he had very good functional speed, having ran a 4.6. coming into the league.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I was being facetious.
I’m not a doctor or a scout; all I know from watching a whole lot of Seahawks games is that Tatupu is not nearly as good as he was during his first three seasons. If you want to dig around this site or the internet for recent analysis of his play, go right ahead.
If you can prove me wrong, I’d like that, because I do like Lofa.
Remember that locker-room shot with Tatupu with his head in his hands...
…and PC trying to console him after another bitter loss.
That pretty much sums it up for the under-sized and over-achieving middle LB.
Objectively
He has sustained numberous concussions, that’s the part that scares me. I hope he doesn’t pay until his memory is shot. Concussons are horrible and life changing. Not so much worried about the torn pect or knee scopes. Really worried about the concussions.
by bonecruncher on Apr 30, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, that's what concerns me more than anything else.
He needn’t put himself through that.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
He might be young still, but he's been declining steadily in play.
If he gets hurt again this year, or is basically just kind of “out there” instead of being an impact player, then he needs to be replaced. I really thought he’d turn it around last year with better coaching…but I thought the same about Curry too.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I grade it a solid B.
I think we are looking to trade Trufant (hopefully for a 2nd next year, but more likely a 3rd) and looking to give Jennings his walking papers.
by Chief Knockahomer on May 1, 2011 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions
LB's are a weakness
Outside of David Hawthorne, you cannot count on any other linebacker.
Lofa is injury prone and even if he’s playing in the game, he is slowed down by the injuries.
Aaron Curry is a bust. He does not have instincts for the LB position nor is he good in space or dropping back. He cannot shed blockers and tries to run them over. As for the LEO position he has one move. Try and run as fast as he can around the blocker.
I think this was a nice draft as far as infusing the OL with talent and hopefully they pan out. The 2 CB’s and S im pretty excited about especially Legree. Sherman is going to be a project, but if we hit on him, he can be a top flight CB IMO.
The RB’s position is good not great. It would be nice to have a gamebreaker back there.
WR’s we’ve got some talent and it’s diverse, but I’m not counting anyone outside of BMW and OBO. Butler, for all of his speed is not a deep threat nor a RAC guy. Golden Tate, im skeptical of because im not sure his work ethic is where it needs to be to be a top flight WR.
There are holes in each position and I have trust that Schneider is the guy to fill the holes.
LOUD NOISES!!!
I like this draft.
COME AT ME BRO!
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
by RolloTomasi on Apr 30, 2011 6:10 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Our Offense is still bad too cause none of these guys have played a game and even when they do we will need time for growth but......
At least we have some building blocks
Unexciting but solid
I hope everyone is prepared to have the pundits hate all over it. But then one just needs a short reminder: we don’t draft for the pundits.
It's unexciting.
Of course the “experts” will hate it. Let the opposition reach, I’d rather fill holes with quality players.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Kiper graded the Seahawks' draft as the worst in the league.
D+
They definitely are hating.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Author of The Seahawks Asylum: http://seahawksblog.wordpress.com
by Nick Andron on May 1, 2011 7:19 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I wonder how much attention Kiper gives to scouting the later rounds though
I mean he gets paid to analyse the first 2 rounds and typically that all his audience/readers care about
I'm sure had we drafted Dalton at 25 and not don anything else differently, he'd have graded us a B or better
He’d been saying for weeks that Dalton should be a top 15 pick, his ego is hurt that no one agreed with him and he’s taking it out on us as the team with need at the position that didn’t do what he said.
by SmartAssCoug on May 1, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
That's a great way to look at it, really.
Makes total sense.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not particularly overwhelmed with this draft, but I'm going to withhold judgment.
In the macro, though, this could potentially be the draft that makes or breaks this front office. Some very interesting players were passed up in order to perhaps reach for players they felt fit their precise offensive and defensive systems best. If these systems prove to be ill-suited to the NFL, this draft is going to look very, very bad in three or four years. If the offensive and defensive profiles they want to use work, this draft will look excellent.
Overall, it was a strange and unorthodox draft, one that you really can’t grade for three years. For a draft that felt so conservative in nature, it’s really one that has the potential to be either a tremendous boom or a devastating bust.
As a miscellaneous note, I did think it was strange that they didn’t take a late round flier on a project quarterback. Even if they trade for Palmer (and let’s remember that this isn’t a done deal and things could fall through), there would only be two quarterbacks on the roster. I dread the idea of having to go out and get JP Losman again. The upside there is limited to “suck”
by BrianL on Apr 30, 2011 6:20 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
They get a lot of credit to sticking to their vision.
If the vision is sound, this has the possibility to work out splendidly. If it isn’t, hoo boy.
Since when is the vision of a kick ass O line not a sound vision?
You should have 05 flashbacks.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
If they pan out
and they can resign Spencer and get a another Guard next year.
They could have one of the best o-lines in football, for a long, long time.
It's impossible to do everything at the same time
and when you try, you end up like the knight in the story who jumped on his horse and rode off in all directions at once. It’s not neglecting the “skill positions” (who ever came up with that bogus term, anyway?), it’s sequencing — deciding to do this first, and that next. Personally, I think the order is perfectly defensible.
by The Ancient Mariner on Apr 30, 2011 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, it's completely defensible. I don't necessarily disagree with their plan here.
I’d just like to see them move on to another part of the sequence, as it feels as though this draft is part two of the 2010 one. Q/PM have grabbed o-line, secondary, and wide receiver help while not addressing the d-line, RB, or the ever important QB in both drafts. I’m a little afraid we’re going to be overstocked at some positions and be lacking elsewhere.
D line and QB I completely agree
But the RB position has had a few resources put into it. Last draft, they traded for Leon Washington, and they added Beast Mode for a draft pick. So I think D-line and QB (two incredibly important positions) are where I’d hope to see SEA put effort into improving.
by aarendsvark on Apr 30, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Both Forsett and Lynch are free agents after the season (or lack thereof).
A middle or late round RB pickup would have been a solid choice, if not a vital one.
so how many backa should they carry on the roster?
and just because they’re not under contract after this year doesn’t mean that after this year they won’t be under contract, if you know what I’m saying. Backs come out in droves every year, makes way more sense to invest in rookies there next year when we might actually need them.
*how many backs
damn cell phone…and lack of an edit function on SBN!!!
Jamison Konz?
Now he’s a RB? If he played Rb he would get killed.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 6:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought he was more of a TE/HB
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on May 1, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I dunno.
He’s like 6’4" 230.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
That's one inch taller and 10 lbs. less than Eddie George.
Not that it means anything.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
You'd have to either cut Forsett, or let the RB sit for a year
RBs are more plug-and-play since their careers are so short. I assume next year if we can’t re-sign one or both, we’ll draft one. I’m sure the idea is go to Shannahan Broncos style: have the nasty OL that gets 1000+ yards for any RB you put behind it, regardless of draft status.
by SmartAssCoug on May 1, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Then you trade a RB every year that you picked up in the 4th for a 1st or 2nd rounders.
I’m a fan.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
We did take a QB
Charlie was our original 3rd round pick. He just has a year with Pete now instead of being a rookie. Give him his starts this year and see were he goes.
We spent draft capital on him this year but
We also had a year — albeit with only a few real games — to evaluate whether that ought to be enough. It’s fair to think the current situation called for more at QB.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on May 1, 2011 9:48 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I do not think we have seen nearly enough of Charlie to make a determination.
Pete has also said the same.
I don't think you need to be conclusive.
Job security and franchise stability is arguably at stake. You don’t have to sell Charlie down the river, but by this point, it’s putting all your eggs in Charlie’s basket to go forward with no options other than to see if he’s the guy.
But apparently they have a plan that they can’t execute to go get someone else. So we’ll see.
Anyway point being, giving more time to evaluate Whitehurst doesn’t forcibly exclude getting another QB. And to me, not doing so is unnecessarily risky.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on May 2, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
This is what worries me.
They’re very outside the box. Considering Schneider’s pedigree is very short lived, and Pete’s had middling success in the NFL, I worry that they’re not as much visionaries as they are rebels. “We wanna do it OUR way”.
You win in the trenches
that mantra still lives….and has always lived.
That's a cliche.
And those teams that win in the trenches tend to have good quarterbacks.
It’s not 1987. Things have changed.
Things have changed is a cliche too
There is no denying talent in the Oline and Dline is still amongst the most important in the NFL.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Not as important as a half-decent quarterback.
Which we don’t have…
…yet.
And which we couldn't get regardless
I keep thinking the QB argument is a bit academic for these past two drafts. I’ll complain when they pass up on a real prospect at a likely spot.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I liked Kap as a prospect and talent.
Seemed like a nice guy too, sucks that I’ll have to root for his demise.
But to hell with him. He was giving me high blood pressure in the Boise St. game when he single handedly kept the BCS intact. Die in a fire kid.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Hah, didn't take you that long
Kaeps was probably my favourite prospect in the draft, but only because I figured him available in late-2nd/early-3rd. Niners reached.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Niners reached on Alex Smith
Who’s hands are so small he can’t rub one out properly.
Second round pick on a guy that has skills and upside? I worry about this pick and what he could do to us for years more than any other this draft.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Well whatever it is
He’ll either be in the pistol for years or on the bench. Don’t think he’ll be much of a starter for some time.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't.
The Niners could have addressed needs, but instead they reached for a QB, possibly because they thought that the Cards or we were going to take him.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions
The niners needs at the end of the season were
a new coach and a QB. They have a pretty solid roster, and should be contenders for the division. They also should be healthier going into the season sans Sings death camps.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
He didn't single-handedly do it.
My boy Vai Taua helped out considerably.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Big Ben is not a great QB
He’d suck on the Panthers and the Stealers were good while he was suspended.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
He has a good team
But he is also a really good QB.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I know he's good. But the Stealers could still win with Tebow.
The Stealers can’t win without Polomalu.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
They got this past Super Bowl with Troy nowhere near as good as he used to be.
Roethlisberger is a legitimate all-pro QB.
Polamalu is similarly important
Don’t really feel like ranking one of the other. Troy is a once-in-a-generation talent at his position. Ben is a great QB.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Denver won with Tebow. What does that prove?
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, they were 1-2 with him as a starter, fine.
But does that tell the whole story? The losses were to near playoff teams Oakland (@ Oakland) and San Diego, and the win was vs. a talented Houston team.
So they had a .333 winning percentage with him, vs. three good teams.
Without him they were 3-10, which is a .230 winning percentage. So yeah, they won with Tebow.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Look back though, it was said the Steelers could win with Tebow.
I merely provided support that Denver won with him too.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmm, I guess I should read the whole subthread
before I comment on something 3/4 of the way down
I do that all the time myself, hahah!
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I said not great.
Good is accurate.
System is excellent.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
What system do they run, exactly?
Pittsburgh had trouble making the playoffs before drafting Big Ben; they’ve been to 3 Super Bowls since. He doesn’t deserve all (or even most) of the credit, but he deserves a decent share.
I've disagreed with much of what you've written in this comment chain.
Sadly I have to agree with you 100% on this one of all comments.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
They've also drafted incredibly well of defense
and struck gold with Mike Wallace.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I was going to argue the point
You would not want the Stealers front 7 or GB’s front 7 on defense. Yes the GB and pitt O-lines are not the greatest but they do open gaping holes for running backs in the playoffs
Same thing goes with the Jets, the Jets own the line of scrimmage.
I agree on most points
I was expecting them in my head to take Alabama’s QB, I don’t know why, the kid is a winner.
I was wishing for them to go up and get Austin as he was falling or possibly take a flier on Romeus from Pitt, but not sure if he passed medically but the I thought he really did not fit our scheme.
They drafted guys for our scheme, I think they had a giant emphasis on Special Teams.
David Greene was a winner in college too.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
"The Kid is a winner"
We totally should have drafted Charlie Sheen
by SmartAssCoug on May 1, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I noticed that Froman wasn't drafted.
I’d like him. His highlights are purty.
There are still some out there
Adam Froman wasn’t drafted.
by The Ancient Mariner on Apr 30, 2011 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I pretty much agree with this
I’m underwhelmed with these picks and since we’re probably not re-signing Spencer I’m not sure how much better our offensive line will really be next year even if Carpenter and Moffitt start. Or especially if they start.
Things might work out the way they’re doing it, and they might not. I think the odds are against it, to be honest, but what do I know.
We're probably not re-signing Spencer?
Where did you hear this?
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions
and do you honestly think that our offensive line can possibly be worse than the atrocious mess we fielded last year?
Okung (hobbled)/Polumbus/Spencer/Gibson/Locklear
Ouch.
I feel a lot better about
Okung/(Probably Gallery)/Spencer/Moffitt/Carpenter
Unger can kick rocks.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I pretty much agree with this.
If they do their job right from here out this draft will be looked back on as fine. A solid B since we’re talking about grades. But if they’re not able to find a quarterback, if the defense lags too far behind, if smash mouth really is a thing of the past or if any of these guys don’t work out it’s going to be seen as a huge missed opportunity. Especially if you combine any of that with Mallett turning into the kind of quarterback a lot of people think he can be. They didn’t leave themselves much room for error on this.
And the no quarterback thing bugs me a lot. I know the Q/PM aren’t to blame but this team has drafted two quarterbacks in the last 9 years! And they were Mike Teel and David Greene! Holy shit!
Couldn't have said it better.
I’m ok with the focus on the line and I’m ok with the picks. I’m less ok but still all right without eh approach and the vision, if I look at it as more proactive nonstop. It’s not quantity over quality it’s maximizing quantity to pay off BMW style. Only takes one guy to turn out awesome to make it all way more than worth it.
But that doesn’t mean it’s still not more likely that none of the picks after Moffitt won’t pan out.
So I’m not feeling good about it. It’s not necessarily. But I wouldn’t have done it this way.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on May 1, 2011 9:54 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Really now you guys gotta let up on Lofa
6 years in the league , 3 of them pro-bowl. He had injuries in both legs last year and it slowed him up a bit . He will be just fine this year.
Hasn't been for 2 years.
But lets say he rebounds. My only point is that he (and Trufant) are no longer the future talent (say 2-3 years from now) that they once were.
He's been injured frequently for several seasons now and when he has supposedly been healthy, he hasn't looked good.
Things are stacked against him.
Remember when Lofa was fast and angry?
Then he got BIG.
Roids will fuck u up.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
I like the players... just not when we got them.
Lots of reaches.
B- sounds about right, but that’s the very bottom as I expect both Carpenter and Moffitt to start and do well.
Funny thing about that - if they target players, and for the most part, get them, does it matter in which round?
We’d like to say, yes it matters, because someone better could have been selected, or the same player could have been selected in a later round.
I don’t know that we know either of these things to be true.
by Hawksince77 on Apr 30, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It matters if said players aren't as good as the FO thinks they are.
We don’t know one way or the other, but as of right now, opposing FO’s and the “experts” seem to agree that the FO reached.
As understood before the draft...
…and clearly relevant now, it comes down to their judge of talent and effectiveness of their long-term strategy.
As it stands, I would be hard-pressed to justify every pick after the first 2.
How many players after the first 2 rounds are the experts even right about in general, and what difference does it make?
I mean, players after the 4th don’t stick long in the league in general, so who gives a flying fuck which player Kiper or Prisco, or even the pundits I like say should have gone 15 or 50 picks before the guy we got.
If the guy fits the vision of our FO and the staff sees a role for them, I just don’t care what any “expert from afar” with little to no internal understanding of what our team is doing says.
And I know it’s a pundit’s job, but I’m pretty well convinced that those of us on this site frequently, eloquently, intellectually and passionately— I’m honestly pretty sure we have a better understanding of our team than do they. So I don’t care about their assigned values nearly as much as our team’s evaluations.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
I've heard a number of "experts" say we reached, but I have not heard anything to prove that opposing FO's are saying that.
Before the draft, Rob Rang wrote that 3 teams where considering Carpenter near the bottom of the first. Obviously the Seahawks were one of them, but his mock had him going to the Steelers at #31, so likely they were another.
They also said they had 2 or 3 times when they were set to pick a guy who was drafted by the team right in front of them, so their board couldn’t have been super far off from the rest of the league.
by Mind of no mind on May 1, 2011 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I like this draft overall.
I was hoping we could get 1 or 2 guys who could contribute on defense from day one, but it never seemed like we were in a good place to pick any of those guys so I don’t mind going O-line with our first couple picks. If the running game really improves this season I think the offense could be fun to watch, and we stockpiled some solid talent to compete for spots in the secondary which is good to see.
Looking forward to watching some huge holes open from the O-Line
Beast Mode all over the place. Washington and Forsett doing their job, while BMW converts first downs when we need them.
Can't wait either
They were applauding the pick of Peterson to Arizona…it won’t matter when we are gashing them for 5-6 at a time on the ground and never ever have to throw the ball.
I was so sick of seeing Beast get hit 2-3-4 yards deep before he ever got going last year. I assume Carrol and Schneider were too.
Wonder what Jeremy Bates thinks about this line...
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
To be fair to the O-line, Beast Mode never met a defender he didn't want to hit
The guy loves contact too much for his own good.
True, but I can't wait to see him hitting 2nd level guys 4 yards out instead of frontline guys 2 yards back.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be very nice to see.
Maybe his tenure with a shitty Bills team taught him bad habits. I remember being very impressed with him at Cal. The dude can make good plays…in an open field. Problem is, he’s too eager to try and open the field by himself, thus running into contact.
Hopefully an improved O-line will give him more confidence to follow his running lanes, rather than trying too hard by himself.
If not, someone else will be along next year in the primary role, and we'll do just fine with Forsett and Leon in the meanwhile.
And maybe even a smattering of Golden?
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
If Golden can figure out how to run routes, he'd be dangerous.
But until that day comes, I’d rather save him for screens and swing routes.
Do Carpenter and Moffitt have any skills on pulling assignments? If so, I’d love to see them move to the outside and push out bodies while we take advantage of Golden’s open-field talent.
We can hope...
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions
If you watch some of the Moffitt highlight reels, the guy is great at getting into the second level or down the line
He moves way better than he should for a man his size.
Our new OC is a guy that helped but Percy Harvin in a position to be effective
Tate isn’t the same guy as Harvin but they’re both unconventional WRs that aren’t amazing route runners.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on May 1, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Love it!
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
fuck...
I been in Norway all day drining my ass off, but it sounds like Pete & Schneider went fuckin’ business on the draft. I like the picks.
From what these moves look like
I take getting Wright as meaning they’re not gonna go after Brock, no 3-tech meaning they’re gonna try to resign Mebane, Free safety like Legree shows they want Thomas roving the field and Jennings is finally on his way out
I think they bring back Brock
It all about competing!!!
Special Teams
Anybody else think Special teams coverage units will be awesome next year. I got this feeling that these guys are all going to be a boost on special teams next year.
special teams
is a dying breed…
The NFL is trying to phase that shit out.
by jubelthebear on Apr 30, 2011 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Bias, on a Seahawks blog? Not an A+ Draft
Not the greatest draft, but I’m glad it put us in a direction with the franchise. Good to know we have a solid plan in place.
I give it a B.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
Drafting late in every round - missing a 3rd altogether - no ability to trade players...
…I’d say they did okay.
Everything was self-inflicted
We could have avoided drafting so late.
Am I saying that I’d like to go back and erase the Rams game and the Saints game from last season? Hell no.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
by .Bonzo on Apr 30, 2011 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Losers tank games
The only way this could have been “avoided” was to tank a home game versus the Rams.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
And one could argue that we tried to tank that game, throwing Charlie behind center
but the Rams just found a way to out-suck us.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Heh, fan bias
Always swings one way or the other. John Morgan probably hated this draft. But I shouldn’t speak for other people, so hey…
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Hah.
Morgan might renounce his fanhood if they don’t re-sign Mebane.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions
John who?
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Author of The Seahawks Asylum: http://seahawksblog.wordpress.com
by Nick Andron on May 1, 2011 7:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
They made good
Out of a tough situation. A 7-9 team should not be picking 25th. JS focused the draft to turn a weakness into a potential strength. That makes me happy. If they can get a decent DT in FA, and trade for Palmer, that would be awesome.
And I'm not mad about the QB thing like others
Even though nothing’s as fun as getting that #1 pick QB, paying attention to the NFL you’ll see teams are always better off building a great system and plugging a QB in than building a system around a great QB
Favre & Manning > Montana & Brady
But, well behind in the ring battle, 7 to 2.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
I'd rather have Montana and Brady, to be honest.
I was never a huge Favre fan, and think he’s the least of the 4 listed.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, that's my point
No doubt in my mind Manning is better than Brady, but those rings is what makes it a tough argument
yeah; I was agreeing with you.
Great system + good to great QB trumps Elite once in a decade talent.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
I think Manning has a great system
Just a great regular season system over a great post-season system. Our system seems more post-seasonish than regular-seasonish too, as stufr described it
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Manning is the system.
He’s in his prime and keeping them on life support.
The system is dependent upon his abilities, which are unique.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Yes, but the system is still great in its own way
It’s not a bad system with too little skill players, it’s just highly specialized. A high-powered passing offense and a defense that assumes the offense put the team in the lead. It works great. In the regular season.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't work without Manning.
They are Carolina without him.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
...yes, I'm not disagreeing with that
I disagree with the implication that it isn’t a great system in his own sense.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions
What system is that, anyway?
Jim Caldwell’s? Tony Dungy’s? Jim Mora’s? Whoever has been the OC in Indy the past decade or so? I doubt Peyton has been running the same “offense” for the Colts since being drafted, but his production seems to have remained unchanged no matter the coaching staff or talent surrounding him.
The system is important, but I think Peyton would be Peyton in any kind of offense.
The offensive system hasn't changed much
Systems can survive coaching changes. Easily.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
But you said "the system is great in its own way."
What system? West Coast? Run-and-shoot? Spread? It seems like the Colts offense is “Whatever the fuck Peyton wants to do.”
Not talking offensive gameplan
Talking “system” as in long-term plan of what players you draft, both on offense and defense. The defense absolutely needs to work against a passing offense which works because Peyton and his low-run offense puts up high numbers. That has been the way the Colts work for as long as I remember. Actual play-to-play details are not as relevant.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes?
I thought we were talking about talent eval and player acquisition this entire subthread. Apologies if I’m wrong.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I think I got confused when "regular-season system" and "playoff system" was mentioned.
It certainly sounded like the system = playbook, and I don’t think Manning has been reading from the same playbook for the past decade. Also, Manning has had an diverse group of running backs (Faulk, Edge, Addai) and receivers (Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Gonzalez, Collie, Garcon) over his career, too. He seems to have succeeded no matter what the rest of his team looked like.
Because they draft some pretty good guys, that's why I wouldn't put the player system down
But it is built more to win in the regular season, with dome home games, then in the playoff system. I don’t want to sound like a Pats fan, but the Colts really do tend to fall apart when they go into the cold and have to contend with more physical football.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
FWIW
Manning has in fact been reading from the same playbook for his entire career; Tom Moore took over as the OC for the Colts Manning’s rookie year, and while I think he finally stepped aside into a consultant position or somesuch before this past season, their offense is his baby. He was there before Dungy — with whom he’d worked in the past — and Dungy let him do his thing. So, yeah, the last time Manning had to learn a new offense was when he left Tennessee.
by The Ancient Mariner on May 1, 2011 5:19 AM PDT up reply actions
C draft. Average and not terrible but not great either.
Really wish they would have attempted to get a project QB.
But maybe we’ll just re-sign Mike Teel!
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
I miss him
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
Very interesting selections
This draft shows enormous confidence from Carroll and Schneider who pretty much ignored popular consensus and exclusively trusted their scouts and coaching staff in making these picks. Carpenter and Moffitt better be starters from day one and improve the run game or I’m going to flip out.
I'm a big fan of physical press corners in the modern NFL by the way
And glad we got too. I have some doubts about Byron but Dick Sure has tremendous upside.
Last word on our opinion, or that of the media:
Carroll: "We think we have found guys that we’re looking for. And we really don’t care what anybody else thinks, or anybody else’s opinion. We know what we thought about them, and it worked out very well."
Whoops to fast on the posting.
I think he was just saying the draft worked out well in that they got who they wanted.
I know dude
I was wryly commenting on how he phrased it, making “it worked out very well” sound as if he proved the naysayers wrong. He didn’t, only the future will tell.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Well I would expect him to say this.
He’s not going to say, “We were pretty happy with the draft until we learned Trent Dilfer and Pete Prisco and others hated it. Now we’re bummed and full of regret.”
Difference being, and why he said it, is that last year at this time Seattle's draft was being lauded as a great success, pretty much by everyone.
This time around, pretty much the opposite.
If he said that, voice dripping with sarcasm, I would love him even more.
by thebyron on Apr 30, 2011 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
That would be the stuff of legend.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I was super stoked about our draft
But then I saw that Pete Prisco gave it a C-. Now I’m bumming pretty hard.
Oh shit, he did?
Fire Carrol and Schneider. Now.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Prisco gave it a c-
then it has to be an B+ or A- at the worst.
Prisco does not know what he is talking about
by Ratman44 on Apr 30, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
No QBs or DLs (until the 7th round)
Makes me think they have something in mind regarding Palmer/Kolb and are confident they can re-sign Mebane. Danny and I were discussing this via text and hoping that’s the way it is. Gotta think JC/PC would’ve at least addressed DL before #205 if that weren’t the case, instead of taking 3 straight DBs.
If they are getting Mebane back and a QB via FA, I’m very okay with this draft. If not, they’ve still got major holes. Regardless, not many pundits are going to grade Seattle’s draft very highly, as almost all of the picks were taken higher than most projections. I don’t care about that too much, though, as I think JC/PC are sticking to their convictions on certain players. Here’s hoping they are right.
Color me cautiously enthused.
I've got ridiculous upside.
In the day 3 press conference, somebody asked them about drafting D-line and (I think) Mebane specifically
They said it just didn’t work out getting value at the spots where they were drafting, but that even if they had taken a defensive tackle high up, they were still hoping to get Mebane back.
In fact, in the entire 30-minute press conference, I think he was the only free agent they even mentioned at all. When asked about quarterback, they just talked about Charlie. No sound bytes about hoping to get Matt back. In contrast, they genuinely seem intent on bringing Brandon Mebane back on board as soon as legally possible.
Good news for Field Gulls!
B- sounds about right
When your first two picks are guards and you passed on a QB, DL and as many big name RB’s and WR’s as we did folks are going to think you are nuts. We needed the O Linemen. The team lacks marquee players. These guys have to step up. We need a #1 WR. I hope that Kris Durham turns out to be that guy.
I doubt they spend a future pick on a QB like Kolb. Hass is the best fit for this team this year. I would not be surprised to see them bring in Leinart at a bargain price. PC has established his rep as giving guys a second chance (see Mike Williams). I think he will want to see if he can straighten out Leinart. We will pick high next year, anyway. QB’s are the NFL coin of the realm. You want to be a seller not a buyer.
I am probably one of the few who do not think that the Seahawks need a so-called No. 1 Wide receiver.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you Carl
lately i been agreeing with you more than less. Do some more write ups for us could yah. I was wondering what you think.
For whatever it is worth I think it’s futile to have a HOF potential rookie qb without a team to shelter it with. If persay we drafted a rookie version of Payton Manning, I don’t believe he has a chance to succeed without a line that can protect him and a line that can only get 1-3 yards a rush.
Someone mentioned that leinert can succeed in Pittsburgh. well i believe that’s true to a certain extent. without a d line to stop the run and create havoc on the qb and an offensive line to protect and push and tire out the opposing dlineman the chances of success for any rookie qb dwindles and by a bit. And all the numbers that come out of a good oline.
Sure.. I'm more suited to scouting types of write-ups, so next season, I'll do some on prospects that we should keep an eye on.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not even sure what that is
WR is so much more about the system and who is throwing it, then their actual ability. Most of the time its just whoever you put in that position
I agree with everything except your comment that "Hass is the best fit for this team this year."
This is a team designed to run the football then play action and go vertical when the opponents stack the box. That is decidedly NOT a Matt Hasselbeck offense.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking of the labor situation.
There is going to be little time for anyone to come in and learn the playbook and personel. Matt is the best fit this year because he has no learning curve. We may only get two weeks of training camp. You have to have a coach on the field to get the new guys lined up. It may be a bit of sandlot football in the beginning.
I think Charlie is better suited to run this team than Matt, at this point in time.
Honestly. His skills are better suited for what we now have.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I have found myself agreeing with you quite a lot this weekend
by SmartAssCoug on May 1, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
It's not a crime, hahah!
I find myself being far more optimistic about the Seahawks this weekend than I’ve been for a long time. Maybe that’s part of the reason why.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Considering the changes that had to be made once Red got hurt last year
I’d say drafting a backup for his position was a smart move.
It's days like this I wish I could be a New England fan.
I mean, I can look out my window and see New England (Vermont on the other side of Lake Champlain), but I watched Seattle give birth to the Seahawks and can’t let it go…
But man, can they draft and manage a franchise. Bledsoe to Brady to Mallett.
Killer.
Mallet won't replace Brady
Mallet will be long gone before Brady says good-bye.
Everyone was shocked that Belichek would insist on starting Brady after Bledsoe returned from injury.
I mean, he was the franchise guy and could still play, right?
Yeah, I remeber that very well.
The controversy of which quarterback should start in the Super Bowl was a headline-grabber, especially after Bledsoe helped them win the AFC title game.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
And besides, as the commentators said at the time of the pick...
…Mallett landed in the perfect place.
He may have struggled in another franchise, but spending 2-3 years behind Brady will prepare him perfectly to succeed in the NFL, if he was ever going to.
I don't know,
if 2 or 3 years from now Mallet looks like he could be the man, I could see them finding some sucker franchise to give them a couple 1st round picks for a 36-37 year old Tom Brady.
by Mind of no mind on May 1, 2011 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, it would be better than spending two straight 1st rounders on Kelly Jennings and Lawrence Jackson.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions
much more lilely they go the Cassell route
Brady will retire a Patriot, he’s got enough money and with Giselle at home I’m sure that once his reign in NE is over he will gladly just ride off into the sunset. Best case scenarios for Mallett are that he develops behind Brady and gets whatever attitude problems he might have coached out of him and then either he gets in some nice preseason or injury-replacement game action and gets traded for a fortune or he actually becomes the successor.
Aw, here comes Carson Palmer.
Looks like a deal to bring to here for a 5th rounder and a conditional 3rd rounder has been in place so the front office was drafting with that in mind.
by Magnificentbutcher on Apr 30, 2011 8:51 PM PDT reply actions
If that doesn't pan out and we just end up re-signing Hasselbeck or playing Charlie
this draft is going to look much, much worse.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eh. Am I the only one who doesn't think so?
It just means our competitiveness will be shit for the coming year, the value will still be the same for the timeframe I actually care about.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess so
and the upside could be an entry in the Luckstakes.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Yippie! The Seahawks might suck next year!
For me, the 2012 Draft doesn’t exist until the 2011 season is OVER.
Me neither
And I love nothing as much as seeing the Seahawks win*, but right now we’re just off-seasoning, and when I look at this draft, I see stuff that makes us competitive for years, not stuff that makes us competitive right now. In fact, that’s exactly what differentiates this draft from a Ruskellian draft.
- Excepting reaching a brilliant conclusion of a great book/film/episode of series, drinking a good scotch, smoking a good cigar, or having sex with a good woman
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll take a bad women.
The sex is often better.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I love Cock Sure
Saying that, and keeping our DBs in mind, what is the possibility that we trade Trufant to a contending team? Like the Eagles or even Cowboys? Or Falcons.
by DJ C-Raig on Apr 30, 2011 8:57 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Put a comma in that headline, and it gets pretty awful.
Sorry.
by J.L. White on Apr 30, 2011 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Damn it, forgot my comma!
by DJ C-Raig on Apr 30, 2011 9:09 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Or....in a dialogue instead of a monologue it could work...
B: I love!
Cock?
G: Sure!
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Kipers draft grades are out.. About what I expected from him
D-. Worst out of all 32 teams.
It might have been a reach.
But at least they have a quarterback.
He gave the lions the best grade?
They only had 5 picks in the entire draft. Just because they got Fairly 5 picks later means they got the best draft? Fairley is the next Albert Haynesworth
by MrFootballguy on Apr 30, 2011 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Weird how Lions could go from a laughingstock during the draft
To now a “great” drafting team.
by SeahawksPhan on Apr 30, 2011 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not weird, they improved their front office
Kinda like we did. Only we’re not as sexy.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions
The Lions objectively had a good draft
Fairly to pair with Suh and Avril? I mean, cmon. That’s worth an A by itself probably. That’s a scary unit now.
I'm so excited... I have Avril in my keeper league.
And he just officially became a keeper.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Just like the Panthers had Jimmy Clausen last year?
Oh wait
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Jimmy coulda been our pick at #14 (or even #6)
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't that be awesome!?!?
Or wow, Mark Sanchez at #4 the year before!
Just the thought of such elite talent makes my palms sweat.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Posted without comment:
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Heh, good fun
Man I slammed that post back then. At least hindsight’s on my side here.
Of course I got brushed aside. But this is my burden. My cross to bear!
/world’s smallest violin
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We could probably have Clausen for a song now
But for some reason the people who argued for us to take him back then do not seem to be arguing for that now.
Not being obnoxious. Just wondering. What’s changed? I’m unsure that I see what makes, say, Kolb more attractive than Clausen.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
The value of QBs is inversely related to the amount that they've demonstrably sucked
and Clausen spent too much time losing and not enough time winning. If he had had a couple of good games and then been benched, we’d still probably be lusting after him.
To be honest, I don’t really understand the QB market. Cutler looked amazing, got traded for a pile of picks and then sucked hard. In 2009, Moore and Gradkowski both looked pretty competent but neither drew much interest on the trade market. Meanwhile, Kolb’s a pretty hot item despite an uneven 2010. If Brady sits out a few games in the next couple of years and Mallett plays, I think he might bring the Pats some good value.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorta
But Kolb sucked in his early years, only to turn barely mediocre in an excellent offense later. I sometimes wonder if FOs heads really get turned by a bare minimum success like that.
I’m not saying Clausen is honkie-dorie, but just failing as a rookie with the Panthers proves nothing here. Cam Newton is going to fail as a rookie there too. Perhaps with worse stats. I’d hope FOs do more due diligence watching tape of Clausen in game to figure out if he’s a scrub or just a lost rookie with potential. I know I haven’t.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Man I kinda forgot how crappy the Panthers' situation is
Rock-solid O-line, but DeAngelo and Jonathan were unspectacular, and Steve Smith is but a shadow of his former self. The best pass-catcher after him is David Gettis I guess. They have some young talent in WR, but man, other than being a multi-millionaire superstud I don’t envy Cam Newton…
…and why anyone would be surprised that a rookie QB fails in that situation is beyond me. What rookie QB would have succeeded there? Clark Kent?
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
It's sad that the Panthers haven't been able to replace Mushin Muhammed.
They really haven’t found a decent WR to punt next to Smith for 7 years now.
I can't help but think...
that Newton will see some action in some sort of Wildcat gimmickry many times this season
Meanwhile
the Rams have a pretty solid OL and run game as well as a decent defense but the WR corps was thinned out pretty well due to injuries.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah that wasn't ideal either
And the offense was seriously hampered by it. I’ll be curious to see how Bradford grows once he gets some real weapons. His rookie season was solid but unspectacular, with warning signs (60% comp, 6 YPA), but I don’t know yet if that is a function of the talent are him or limitations of him.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I agreed with the piece when it was written
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Well championing Clausen sure looks foolish right now, but I'm not sure John was wrong about Bradford yet.
As someone who was in the draft pick camp in week 17, it sure wasn’t any fun pinning my hopes on Bradford to lead that team back. Supporting cast was awful though, so who knows.
I think Bradford did much better than should be expected
for a rookie missing his top 4-5 receivers, and I’m worried about McDaniels ability to open up that offense, but I do agree that the story’s not over after one season. Usually you write off the rookie year and look to the 2nd or 3rd year to see if the QB’s developing. While I do think the Newton pick is bad news for Clausen, there is a chance that Clausen will outcompete Newton for a starting job day 1 (or replace him after benching/injury) and end up justifying a 1st-round pick.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, Vasilii
that should be:
/world’s smallest cello
by The Ancient Mariner on May 1, 2011 5:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Playing the world's smallest violin is an expression. That dude didn't invent it.
by Thomas Beekers on May 1, 2011 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
You're missing the point--never mind.
I’m well aware it’s an expression.
by The Ancient Mariner on May 1, 2011 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
To clarify one thing
it wasn’t the “world’s smallest violin” I thought you were quoting.
by The Ancient Mariner on May 1, 2011 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I still to this day never understood that conclusion on Bradford.
He’s the best quarterback I’ve ever had the pleasure of scouting
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on Apr 30, 2011 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
better than Luck?
Or are you still not convinced on Luck yet?
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
And Kiper really was on the money with Jake Locker
If he is so smart why did he down grade Locker due to accuracy issues. He had him going late in R1 or R2. Most of the other mocksters did as well. The media has some explaining to do. They blew it all the way to round 7 where many of their guys with the highest grades were passed over.
They forgot that you can't be a mindless, statcrunch robot to play football
…
you gotta have the leadership to build a team around. Lift those amazing players up, damn it!
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Apr 30, 2011 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Neither Locker nor Newton are locks to become long-term starters in the NFL
The teams that drafted them did so based on some idea of potential and hope and the knowledge of the other QBs on the board. The fact that both were picked in the top 10 doesn’t mean that all or most or even a large minority of teams ranked them in that range. It doesn’t matter how Kiper ranks players, every team uses its own scouts, own criteria and creates their own boards.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Apr 30, 2011 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Kiper can blow me.
Then after I finish, he can blow dry his hair.
Again.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Why won't people ignore this guy?
Mel Kiper is not an analyst. He’s a celebrity. A well-coiffed, carefully constructed persona designed to sell ESPN Insider subscriptions. His one advantage is that oh-so-coveted access, the crucial credentials that media pundits throw around like a swinging dick. Access is detrimental to the truth.
by Benne on Apr 30, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
2010 Seahawk draft was rated high
We got Okung, Thomas and Tate. Yet, Okung was hurt part of the year and didn’t play much. Tate didn’t play at all. Other than that we got a little playing time from Walter Thurmond whom everyone thought was a reach. EJ Willson was cut. Konz went on the practice squad. The others didn’t contribute much beyond special teams. So while it looked good on draft day I don’t think it lived up to expectations. This year may be the opposite.
Who thought WTIII was a reach?
He dropped due to injury concerns and was a good value pick, from common analysis.
by Thomas Beekers on Apr 30, 2011 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
someone on SBnation just came out with an article
naming the seahawks and the raiders as ‘losers’ of the draft. He didn’t give a valid reason other than a comparison to last years draft…which makes no real sense…personally this wasn’t a spectacular draft but it was one where we have set the foundations for success (an o-line rather than the 4 stuffed dummies we had last year).
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Apr 30, 2011 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Before anyone gets emotional over outside reactions I should mention that handing out grades and declaring teams "winners" or "losers" of the draft on the same day it ended is borderline retarded.
by Benne on Apr 30, 2011 10:12 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
Even with my reservations about this draft I wouldn’t dare rate it yet; believe it or not, I might be wrong. I know you’re thinking, “that’s impossible,” but improving the offensive line is an unsexy-yet-smart way to improve a football team.
My biggest surprise over the draft is how "meh" I feel about it.
Didn’t love it, didn’t hate it, we filled some holes, ignored some others. I don’t feel comfortable with this indifference. MAKE ME FEEL SOMETHING, FRONT OFFICE.
At least draft Andy Dalton #25 so I can do some good-old-fashioned RAAAAAGGGEEEE
But I don’t even get that pleasure.
I'm so glad we didn't.
I would have ended my affiliation with the Hawks.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Fun fact time!
I saw a customer at work today decked out in an Oklahoma City Thunder jersey. I strongly resisted the temptation to rip it off and hang him with it. I only restrained myself because I want to keep a job.
Yeah, I might have ended his affiliation with life.
Did you see my post a couple nights ago at about 2:30 am? I almost got in a bar fight with a guy. We got off on the wrong foot right away, a quite hole in the wall bar with 4 people in it including the bartender, and the two of us were about to tear each other’s heads off.
He said it was going to be a Sonics Celtics finals. That started us on the wrong foot. He continued to make up shit along the way that made him even more an idiot, till I was red in the face looking only at the bartender and getting free drinks for not kicking his ass because I’m the better man.
But that night, I really didn’t want to be the better man, I’ll tell you.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OUR FUCKING PLAYOFF TEAM
I hate the NBA. I hope their inevitable lockout wipes out a season or five.
by Benne on Apr 30, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
I was so excited when we got Durant.
Now I’m bitter and I hope the NBA fails and goes out of business.
by grinch11 on May 1, 2011 5:52 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Succinct and to the point. I like it.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
As soon as Nate Rob wins the slam dunk contest, I'm done watching the NBA.
Wait, what?
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 2, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
In the presser today, Schnieder was going down his List (!)
And said that KC called after the Durham pick and congratulated them. They apparently had him in for a private workout and wanted to share some of the info with our FO. Classy as fuck.
Wow, that's really cool of them.
Classy as fuck is right.
by purplepansy on Apr 30, 2011 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I imagine there is a lot of that in the right front offices.
It’s a nice gesture, and would likely help generate future talks if there is some trade alignment that could be done between the teams down the line.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, apparently Denver called as well after the Malcolm Smith pick, because they wanted him to.
It’s like how I called my buddy who is a Viks fan to bitch about Ballard and Burton.
Also apparently, we wanted Havili, but Philly took him.
Seriously Philly? Church Van, Beer Truck, and now Prius?
I bet in the first round when the stakes are higher, there are fewer of those calls.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Apr 30, 2011 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully he walks without a limp again, and then goes from there.
I’d like to see him in the league again, but the odds are long.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions
This Day 3 presser from Pete and John is pretty good.
They were asking Schneider about instances where players he liked were picked right in front of him, and if he had to call other FOs to gripe. He assured the press there was, but he couldn’t talk about it, then Pete chimed in with “Yeah, like Schilling.”
On Twitter:
I just asked Sando:
@espn_nfcwest What’s the probability that the Hawks FO tries to trade Trufant to a contending team that needs DB help once they’re able?
He answered:
@TheC_Raig I’d put most older players on Seahawks in “possible trade” category. Trufant has high salary, is 30. SEA wants to get younger.
If we can dump Tru on somebody for a song I'm all for it
Of course, it means we have Thurmond and a couple rookies at CB. With all the DBs Seattle just drafted I’m real curious to see how the secondary unfolds for next year.
For a song?
I hope considerably more than that.
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on May 1, 2011 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Then I'll dance
First Round Wishlist (in order): 1. Mark Ingram; 2. Mike Pouncey; 3. Jimmy Smith; 4. Jake Locker
Other rounds: Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Owen Marecic, Ras-I Dowling, Joseph Barksdale, Tyler Sash, Shareece Wright, and Taiwan Jones.
by Carl Shinyama on May 1, 2011 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm curious if Nate Clements would be a good fit.
Every report I’ve read said that he’s untradeable due to his contract, and is almost certain to be cut. But I think he’s still a pretty good CB who has missed very little time in his career due to injury, he meets the 6’ height requirement, and is known for being physical. He might be a good veteran stop gap, if we can get him under a reasonable contract.
by Mind of no mind on May 1, 2011 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I doubt it, for two reasons
One, they’re going to want to give the new kids every opportunity, and unless we deal one of our picks to Cincy (or somewhere else, I suppose), I don’t see how we could fit Clements in while still making enough room for the rookies. And two, there’s a very real chance we end up operating under “final 8” rules, in which case we won’t be able to sign a FA without losing one — which means we have to prioritize by position; and at this point, in FA, there are other positions that have to be more important (DL at the head of the line, imho).
by The Ancient Mariner on May 1, 2011 5:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah...Nate Clements is terrible.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 1, 2011 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions
With good safety support
the process of breaking in neophyte DB’s becomes less painful. Our Bandit package is gonna be da shit though.
That's interesting, but I can't think of many other older players left, really, that are under contract.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I was a little perplexed at them not drafting as much on the D-line.
But ultimately, I think it was a decent draft. I’m not terribly excited about it, but I’m really upset either. Looking at this draft class though, I don’t know that there were a lot of players that I would have really gotten excited about in the areas the Seahawks were at.
I do think, though, if they can re-sign Spencer and get Gallery, that the O-line is going to be fantastic. And if they draft QB and D-line next year, then I’ll be really excited.
I'm already drunk, but this draft makes me want to shoot heroin into my eyeballs.
I don’t hate any of these guys they drafted, but I can’t help but feel like in the first round, Pete Carroll and Co got caught with their pants down, and couldn’t trade out of their first round pick.
But hey, lets just assume our coaching staff has an “eye for hidden talent”. That’s really convenient.
When both these guys (Carpenter and Moffitt) become bad-assed beasts on the right side, I give everyone the absolute right the smack me silly. But I still feel as though PC, JS & Co had no intention of ending up with James Carpenter as their first-day bounty. But that’s what happened. So I should forget it.
Aren't you supposed to shoot it into your veins?
That sounds dangerous. Particularly as an overreaction to a draft that you will be loving 5 years from now.
They didn’t get caught with their pants down. They actually zipped them up and took the guy they wanted when the realized that they couldn’t trade down and still get him. The cost was too high to trade down, if you don’t get the guy you want by trading down.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
The most important draft grade is in
Walterfootball hated our draft
That means we did something right
So, Depth Chart as of now:
QB: Whitehurst (Palmer/Hass Maybe)
RB: Lynch; Forsett; Washington
FB: ?
WR 1; Williams; Durham
WR 2: Obomanu; Tate
Slot: Butler;
TE: Carlson; Morrah; McCoy; (Konz?)
LT: Okung
LG: Gibson, Fanaika
C: Unger
RG: Moffitt (Carpenter, Andrews, Unger can play both guard spots too)
RT: Carpenter, Andrews
Leo: Clemons; Davis; (maybe KJ Wright?)
3-Tech: Balmer
1-Tech; Cole
5-Tech: Bryant; Balmer: Levingston
WLB: Hawthorne, Smith
MLB: Tatupu
SLB: Curry; Wright
CB: Trufant, Thurmond, Lewis, Sherman, Maxwell, (Browner- possible SS)
FS: Thomas, Legree
SS: Chancellor
K: ? (probably Mare)
P: Ryan
KR/PR: Washington; Tate
It’s clear where the free agency money must go: D-Line. It looks horribly thin right now and I hope to god Mebane resigns. The interior O-line could do with some veteran depth too. It was disappointing the Eagles had to go and steal Havili from us and FB is now a need too. And how could I almost forget QB: I have to assume Pete/John have a plan to trade for a Kolb/Palmer.
I thought it was a good draft overall but there is still a huge lack of high-end talent on the roster as well as some gaping holes. It’s hard for me to criticize the FO though when the Hawks had so little draft capital to begin with. They were never going to fill all the holes on the roster. If they come out of this draft with 3 starters I’m happy
by hawksfan1401 on May 1, 2011 6:26 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I just said that above.
Trufant is toast. Hope we can get a 2nd for him, but it looks more like he’s only worth a 3rd and a two-day-old sack of doughnuts.
by Chief Knockahomer on May 1, 2011 7:12 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I want to know who the genius was who said I was wrong that we were NOT going to draft a QB.
WRONG, he said, in bold letters. Who’s wrong now, little fella?
by Chief Knockahomer on May 1, 2011 7:14 AM PDT reply actions
I think it was a surprise to most of us that a QB wasn't taken at some point
So that it wasn’t ridiculous for that guy to disagree with you
We didn't end up with Jimmy Smith as I hoped
But I’m mildly excited by Sherman. I completely agree with the “meh” reaction to this draft. On paper we got a lot better, but it really does feel like pretty much every one of our first four picks was a reach, with the possible exception of Durham if he really was “their guy” and the Chiefs were looking at him right after us.
My biggest concern is that I don’t think the DL and the secondary really got that much better for 2011, but 2012 could be a really interesting year for us.
Free Agency. If this fucking lockout is ever lifted
I want a QB. Palmer or Kolb. Bridge the gap type of guys.
I agree.
I’d rather have Palmer for 3 seasons and draft a QB next year over giving up next years picks to get Kolb.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
by hazbro24 on May 1, 2011 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed 100% over.
I really don’t think the FO is going to pay what Philly wants, anyway.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
At least we can give a fair evaluation of whoever plays QB now
No more hearing the O-Line sucks, we have no running game etc. The weapons, while not elite are plenty good enough
This O line probably won't be great this year
They will need at least this season to grow up and get better. Next year they will start to be good.
True. I think Carpenter can factor early though, like Okung last year
Oher was good in his first season too. Anthony Davis sucked though so who knows how he’ll do this season. Moffitt could take a year
Would give this draft an F grade...
…even if we end up with Palmer, Hass, Leinart, or Peyton Manning.
Starting QB and developmental QB are simply different roles. I’m sure they have some plan to bring someone in to compete with Whitehurst to start. But that isn’t the problem; the problem is, they have no young talent at QB to develop, after insisting it’s what they care about. There’s only one place to get that right now, the draft.
.
Now the circle is complete.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
This is about development, not a starter.
Even teams with the best quarterbacks are well served by developing backups in the event of injury. Ignoring the most important position on the field isn’t going to get you far.
I heard
we were going to trade next years first and second to Carolina to pick up the young and talented Clausen.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
I was trying out the new font
with something really ridiculous.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Well, it is...
the sarcasm font.
Glad I could re-remember it. I had forgotten it for a while, but it was needed during live draft threads, for sure.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 1, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I feel like we have built a stong base for
whoever the QB is next year. Could be Luck or Barkley in my opinion. I really think this draft has created a lot of strong depth on the roser. Though some will say most of the pick were “reaches” I would disagree in that it seems like Carrol and Schneider both knew the guys would or would not be available if they traded down.
When they talk about the inability to trade down in the first they dont really say what broke down but it seems more like we called it off after realizing our guy wouldnt be there. The Ravens, Packers, and Steelers all had interest in Carpenter so that pick seems solid. Even if each of our picks was a reach, I remember Clay Matthews and Aaron Rodgers being called reaches when they were drafted but the Pack seems to always draft pretty well. I think Schneider learned a lot in his time at Green Bay and it looks like he is transferring that well into Seattle.
I actually really like this draft except for the failure to ger Owen Marceic (spelling is questionable for that, sorry) from Stanford. He got drafted earlier than I expected by Cleveland so Damn the walrus!
Side note: Mebane is re-signed for the season. We made him a RFA w/ a3rd round tender meaning he stays for a year.
RFA only means that if another team signs him we get a 3rd round pick if we fail to match their offer
And that’s if last years CBA rules apply which is a big if. It’s still possible he could become an UFA depending on the new rules
I'm wondering if Stanley Havili was our pick in the 7th until the Eagles swooped him up two picks ahead of us?
I guess we’re going to try to add a veteran FB through free agency, re-sign Michael Robinson, or sign some UDFA’s for the position.
I would give Kiper and F.
His job is to be in the know and understand who each team is going to pick. Then he should report that to the fans. He seems to think he is the god of all GM’s. He has the team and player access. He should stop judging and start reporting. He completely misread the Seahawks by assuming they would take a QB. He blew it. No excuse for such a major error. Trying to out think the GM’s is why his opinions are worthless.,
I can't read all of the text
But his lowest grades went to us, Jacksonville, Carolina, Tennessee, Minnesota, and San Fran.
Interesting that other than us, every one of those teams used their 1st or 2nd on a QB
by SmartAssCoug on May 1, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
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