I'm Throwing Another Name Into the QB Derby Hat: Tampa Bay's Josh Johnson
For the purpose of being all-inclusive in coverage of players the Seahawks could/should have some interest in, I wanted to talk for a minute about Tampa Bay QB Josh Johnson. Without working on any inside knowledge or information, but rather simply looking at the type of player he is and what John Schneider and Pete Carroll are trying to build, or rather what they've told us they're looking for in a quarterback, he actually makes a little sense on paper.
He's young, athletic (24 years old, 6'3", 215, ran the 40 in 4.44 at the Combine), has a good arm, and could come at a relatively cheap price. Josh Freeman is securely entrenched as the team's franchise QB and isn't in any danger of losing that title. 2011 is the final year of Johnson's rookie contract, and it's unlikely he'll try and stay on as a career backup behind Freeman without testing the waters to find a place as a starting QB. Buccaneers' management will surely know this and if they're smart they'd try and move him now and get something in return. It's basically the same situation as Kevin Kolb and the Eagles, but Johnson would come at a significantly lower cost.
There were rumors circulating that JIm Harbaugh would try to reunite with his old San Diego signal caller when he took over with the 49ers but now that they drafted Colin Kaepernick it seems more likely they'll stick with Alex Smith as a stop-gap and work Kaep in a year or two down the line. With that option likely off the table, Johnson's asking price probably just went down. Though it's hard to say really what the Bucs would ask for him, I'd venture it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to move him for a 4th or 5th round pick. If that were the case, would he be worth it?
Well, he hasn't gotten a ton of chances to prove his worth at the NFL level - 4 total starts with pretty underwhelming results; I went back and watched some game replays from 2009 and it's a bit of what you'd expect. Young QB mistakes intermixed with really intriguing impressive plays. He's good in the pocket movement wise - he looks to have Mike Vick type shiftiness in the pocket and escapes pressure easily. His arm looks strong and his accuracy is there. One thing I noticed was a ridiculous amount of drops made by the Buccaneers receivers. You see flashes of brilliance among the typical mistakes and head-scratching decisions you'd expect from a young quarterback surrounded by a young team.
For a young guy though, he makes some surprisingly veteran plays. This pass he threads over the linebacker in the only spot he could place is, it a good example. He looks calm but he's also aggressive and can put the ball on a dime 35 yards downfield like this touchdown pass. He keeps his eyes up and keeps plays alive when forced out the pocket. He can scramble.
Apart from limited NFL action, his jaw dropping college numbers and pre-draft analyses make you pretty excited at his theoretical prospect as a mobile, strong armed and smart quarterback that can manage your offense, distribute the football, and keep the chains moving. By all accounts he's a fiery and vocal leader. Johnson passed for 43 touchdowns his senior year at San Diego to just 1 interception. That in itself, although at a lower level of competition against less complex of defenses, is ridiculous and impressive and tells you that he can take care of the ball. Relying on his pre-draft scouting reports you have to wonder if he'd have some success if given a little opportunity in the right situation. Now, to take with a huge grain of salt considering he is still a backup and in three seasons hasn't found the field much, here's what NFL.com's Combine page had to say about his strengths coming out of college (lengthiest list ever) - whoever wrote this is absolutely smitten with him:
-Quick, mobile scrambler with above average balance and body control to make all the throws when on the move.
-Possesses that second gear needed to elude when rushing past the line of scrimmage and the vision to locate the cutback lanes.
-Very smooth in his retreat from center to his throwing point, demonstrating the slide-and-adjust agility to step up in the pocket or roll out to avoid pressure.
-Shows very good knee bend and the ability to weave through traffic, making a good effort to provide ball security before heading up field.
-Capable of handling the mental aspect of the game, as he makes all of the required reads and checks to excel in a pass-oriented offense.
-Won't hesitate to square his shoulders and drive his legs to gain tough yardage up the middle rather than passively head to the sidelines to avoid any contact.
-Doesn't force the ball into traffic and can keep defenses honest with his long-range arm strength or ability to weave in and out of traffic as a ball carrier.
-With his body control, agility and hip flexibility, he is quick driving back from center, doing a nice job of setting his feet in either 3-step or 5-step drops.
-Gets to his throwing point fluidly and has the balance to make all the throws on the run.
-Nimble and agile rolling out of the pocket and has the balance to step up and avoid pocket pressure.
-While patient waiting for the plays to develop, he is not the type who will hold on to the ball too long and then try to force the action to make the play, as he knows when he needs to throw the ball away.
-Demonstrates the compact delivery and throwing motion, along with the wrist flick, to get the ball out cleanly and quickly.
-He has a compact motion, holding the ball chest-high to execute a fluid three-quarter release.
-Seems more comfortable airing the ball out, rather than playing dink-and-dunk with a short-area passing game (accuracy is a bit off on screens, wheel routes).
-Effective at throwing ropes 40 yards downfield with ease.
-Accurate throwing from the pocket and has the balance to also make those throws on the move.
-Consistent setting his feet and shows good mechanics delivering the ball on time.
-Likes to air the ball out more than stay underneath, as he knows how to get the ball to his targets in stride rather than have them wait or come back for it.
-Keeps his cool under pressure and knows that when all else fails, he has the feet to step up and avoid the pocket pressure.
-Stands tough under duress and shows confidence in his ability to execute the play.
-Patient waiting for plays to develop and does a very good job with ball security.
-Vocal on the field, demonstrating a little bit of Brett Favre with his bravado.
-Capable of getting big yardage with his feet and is a dangerous threat running with the ball.
-As a ballcarrier, he shows good strength and body lean to gain additional yardage after the initial hit and is conscious of protecting the ball and shielding it from the defenders.
-Builds to top acceleration nicely and is alert to coverages (won't run into spots too often).
-Knows how to get the ball to his deep targets over their outside shoulder without the receiver having to adjust.
Taken as a whole, I start scratching my chin and wondering what this Josh Johnson guy's deal is. We've debated it endlessly here, but what type of QB does Pete Carroll really want?
Pete Carroll recently said "We've always liked a quarterback that could move. We've always liked the ability to move, because it fits with our running game and the style of complementary throwing game that we like to match up with it. The movement quarterback - we don't need to have a guy that's a pure runner. We're not talking about that. But a guy that has the ability to move and get out of the pocket and give us the variety of sets where we want to get that quarterback to slow down the pass rush and stuff. That's always been part of it. It hasn't always been what we've had, but that's always been something we've looked for in the ideal."
So, ideally, his QB can move around a bit. They don't want a pure "running QB" but really who does? Seneca Wallace was traded away for a reason and he's never threatened at being a starting caliber QB in this league. What Pete has said is still pretty vague so you can't really take much out of that. What you can do is look at some other quarterbacks they've had interest in: If Colin Kaepernick was truly high on the Seahawks draft board as rumors indicated pre-draft, it would seem logical that they'd have interest in another player of similar skillset. Both Kaepernick and Johnson put up ridiculous numbers at a small schools and against lower level opponents. Both are very good runners with good arm strength. Both are projects. Both played in spread offenses. While Kaepernick is taller, Johnson is quicker. I don't know, I'm reaching here but it's something I've been noodling for a little while so I thought I'd bring it up.
Now, according to the scouting reports on Johnson that I have read, he's extremely mobile, can throw on the run with accuracy, is a vocal leader, and possesses a strong arm to make the vertical passing game relevant again. He was the MVP of the 2008 East-West Shrine game while passing for 78 yards and a TD and rushing for 91 yards against top-level college competition at the time. He was unanimously labeled as a raw, developmental prospect, but one with a high ceiling and the intangibles you look for in a QB. I've talked a little bit about his mixed bag performance in the NFL thus far and you see things you like and some things that make you doubt him.
His downsides would be that he lacks bulk, may not be able to effectively read a defense at the NFL level (though from what I've watched he seems to have a potential to), and is a tad inaccurate in the short range on screens and dump offs. He has limited action at the NFL level thus far, but has shown glimpses of his potential and his body of work is too small to write him completely off. In reality, it's probable he's not a part of the Seahawks' plans but I would be remiss to completely ignore a player like him. To me he represents a better value than a Matt Flynn and is in every way superior to Tarvaris Jackson. If Jackson really is on the Seahawks' radar it lends a little credence to my argument that Johnson could fit. If he doesn't pan out at QB? Throw him out there as a receiver and tell him to make some plays.
Oh yeah, and Josh Johnson is Marshawn Lynch's cousin. They host a football camp in Oakland together every summer. I wonder if Marshawn is hitting up Petey on his celly-cell, campaigning for the trade.
Since we've talked about pretty much every other QB in the league ending up in Seattle, why not Josh Johnson?
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Danny, I bestow upon you the glorious title of "Proactive like nonstop."
Few are ever honored with such magnificence. Wear it with pride.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on May 11, 2011 11:19 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Are you Danny O'Neil or somethin'?
Giving people nicknames!
by Coach Owens on May 11, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Been on the Josh Johnson bankwagon for a while
I think his skill set is just what we are looking for. He is young with a high ceiling, but there does not appear to be the market for his services like Kolb. With Freeman established, and the Bucs looking for some compensation for an expiring contract, looks like the conditions are right for a trade. I think we can get him for a 4th or 5th round pick.
Bring Him In To Compete
Love letter from the scout non-withstanding, this guy seems to have what they need. And I know for sure he won’t be as expensive as Kolb. Good article.
Forever Winning
by JRock419 on May 11, 2011 11:52 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Tampa Bay can compete for a title this year...
I have a hard time believing that in a lockout shortened year they’d trade a capable backup with experience in the system for even a 4th round pick, let alone a measly 5th.
Yeah, you could be right on that - it's a risk for them.
On the other hand, they would get nothing in return (MAYBE a compensatory pick if they don’t sign other free agents… maybe) if he left and signed elsewhere after sitting on the bench all of 2011. There are a lot of dependable veteran QBs they could sign for depth out there this offeseason.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
by Danny Kelly on May 11, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand the "get nothing in return argument"...
but I see the Bucs valuing that one year of insurance more than a 5th round pick… which inherently would mean they wouldn’t be getting “nothing.”
But then, finding the right FA backup level guy would make this insurance excessively high in comparison to a future pick.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 12, 2011 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Fair... but I disagree with your valuation of said insurance.
Bucs are contenders for a Super Bowl
They have a QB whose modus operandi leads to serious punishment over the course of a season.
This season in particular will reward teams that have continuity in place with regard to systems and the players’ experience with them.
The right FA backup level guy is already on the team… and in my opinion… the opportunity cost of risking the potential for a Super Bowl by jeopardizing quality depth at the most important position on the field is greater than a future 5th round pick.
Again… I totally understand the desire to receive compensation for the walking player… I just believe that in this specific case… the security at that position for even just this one year is worth more than the right to draft the 150th best player a year from now.
I’d have to think about a 4th… and I’d jump at a 3rd… don’t know he’s worth that much to any other team besides TB though.
Bucs are contenders for a Super Bowl?
That may be a tad optimistic. If they are, we are equally contenders.
After all, they play in a division with N’awlins and Atlanta, and I would fully expect them to finish below both those teams in the divisional standings. They have some good young talent, but if you take a look at their record they have yet to show they can beat better teams. Not that I don’t think they are talented, but they’re still a year or two away.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 12, 2011 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha... again... agree to disagree.
That team won 10 games in spite of the difficulty of playing in that division.
They bring everybody back PLUS a damn good looking draft.
Freeman is starting his 2nd full season.
If I’m NO or Atlanta I’m scared shitless of the Bucs.
by trippsixxes on May 14, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I hear what you're saying, but those other two teams are among the league's elite.
And I see Tampa Bay needing another year or two to get over the hump. Neither of those other teams will be scared of them, great teams don’t get scared of other teams. I don’t think Matt Ryan, Michael Turner, Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez spend much time being scared. I’m absolutely certain John Abraham doesn’t.
TB is a good team on the way up. The Saints and Falcons are near peaked and dialed in and talking (realistically) about Super Bowl aspirations.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 14, 2011 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
He looks interesting.
Good luck prying him away from the Bucs though. I think he’s going to cost significantly more than a 4th or 5th though. I could easily see him requiring a high 3rd or even a 2nd rounder to get, especially given how much the team paid for Whitehurst.
Yeah, I agree.
I say it’s within the REALM of possibility for a 4th. Likely he could be more expensive – depends on the market for him.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
by Danny Kelly on May 11, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Except Whitehurst was a 3rd round pick, Johnson was a 5th
As silly as it is, teams tend to stick to past assigned value. Unless it’s a pick who bombed, like LoJax and Balmer. I think they’d at least want a 5th, and could probably be had for a 4th no problem, assuming of course the Bucs are interested in trading him. It’s not like he’s really proved all that much yet.
by B.B.Finnegan on May 11, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
thx, i always screw that up.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
by Danny Kelly on May 11, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
on-topic in the QB pile sense, has there been any buzz about Drew Stanton?
I know he was tendered an offer by the Lions, but what with the CBA being non-existent and all it appears he has not signed anything. I thought he took a lot of really good steps forward as a situational starter for Detroit, and obviously he’s someone who’s been discussed around here.
Just curious if his name has been floated at all from what you’ve heard.
I haven't heard it lately.
With the way the Lions and Seahawks front offices deal though, I would say its a possibility. They have a good relationship with Detroit’s FO so who knows.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
by Danny Kelly on May 11, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd actually really like that move.
But that’s also because I’m a San Diego alum, and it would be cool to see him on the Seahawks.
1 INT, but how many fumbles did he have?
He’s Leon Letting the ball on that scramble highlight. But i’m intrigued.
Head of catering.
zero fumbles lost in college career
ran for 850 yards and 2 tds his senior season too. 8.4 YPC. in jr season, ran for 828 yards and 11 TDs on 307 attempts. His senior season he learned to stay in the pocket more and only ran 101 times.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
Maybe we should....
hire the QB scout from Tampa. We seem to want the Freeman/Johnson type and they have 2 of them.
by Billy Showbiz on May 11, 2011 2:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Is there a sign that the Bucs regard Johnson highly?
He had one year there and then they went and drafted Freeman. Maybe they decided Freeman was just too good to pass up, and that looks like a justifiable view in hindsight (although as I recall, Freeman was not universally loved before the draft, which explains why he went #17). But I’d think that if Johnson had shown the promise to be a starter, they would have shopped him around by now. I dunno.
by Suburban Shocker on May 11, 2011 2:42 PM PDT reply actions
Freeman Was Too Good To Pass Up In Fact, They Moved Up For Him.
From the transaction wire that year
#17: Cleveland → Tampa Bay (D). Cleveland traded its first-round selection it acquired from the Jets (17th overall, used to select Josh Freeman) to Tampa Bay for first- and sixth-round selections (19th overall, traded to Philadelphia, who selected Jeremy Maclin; and 191st overall, used to select Coye Francies).
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