Matt Leinart to Seahawks Rumors Heat Up
by Danny Kelly on May 11, 2011 2:40 PM PDT
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Scott Wolf of Inside USC reported yesterday that he's hearing "the Seahawks spoke to former USC quarterback Matt Leinart about joining the team next season." Though these rumors have been floated recently simply out of a logical deduction regarding Carroll and Leinart's history together and the fact Leinart is a free agent, this is the first I've heard of any actual source to the idea. I'm not saying that I necessarily believe what Wolf is reporting, but it's an interesting development nonetheless as I'm a bit of a sucker for rumor mongering.. cough.
Anyhow, whether what Wolf is 'hearing' is based in reality or not, let's take a look at what Matt Leinart to Seattle might actually mean. First, so I don't start mixing rumors, let's just assume that the Carson Palmer to Seattle rumors are false. Then, let's assume the Kevin Kolb to Seattle rumors are false. After that, let's assume the Tarvaris Jackson to Seattle rumors are false. Now, let's assume the Kyle Orton to Seattle rumors are false. Where am I? Oh, let's also assume the Vince Young to Seattle speculation is dead and that Matt Hasselbeck will not return to Seattle. I probably didn't get everyone there but you see where I'm going.
Scenario: John Schneider said they're looking to sign a specific UDFA QB so for this exercise we'll pretend he's the third QB. That leaves Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Leinart to duke it out for the starting gig because if Matt Leinart is brought in I'd tend to think it would be ostensibly to compete for the starting job. In reality Charlie would probably get the edge here and win the starting role and we'd have a chance to see what he can do and finally make the judgement on whether or not it was a mistake to bring him in. If Whitehurst were to get hurt playing behind a very young and inexperienced line, Matt Leinart would get a chance to play and we could see if he has any chance to make it in the NFL after falling out of favor with Ken Whisenhunt; or rather, after Ken Whisenhunt never liked Dennis Green pick Matt Leinart and eventually cut him after taking over. Overall, you're looking at a pretty experimental season at quarterback and can expect a record commensurate of a 'rebuilding' franchise.
Snap back to reality: I think the Carson Palmer or Matt Hasselbeck decision hinges on whether Mike Brown concedes and trades Palmer. If so, the Hawks let Hass walk and carry on with their new bridge to the future. If Brown decides to be an ass, then the Hawks re-sign Matt. From there, whether it's Carson Palmer or Matt Hasselbeck starting, I could see Matt Leinart playing the JP Losman role as 3rd QB to push Charlie for backup status, with the unnamed UDFA QB on the practice squad. That's how I see this playing out but there are surprises around every corner so we'll see.
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I doubt Leinart would sign with a team to be a 3rd string QB.
Even if it was coached by Carroll. He has such a sense of entitlement that he thinks he should be a full time starter.
On what are you basing that?
And if it’s from a year or two ago, is there no sense that perhaps he can change?
Me thinks reality punched him in the face.
He’s got to do whatever he can to stay in the league and get a check.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
by hazbro24 on May 11, 2011 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
If Seattle signs him and doesn't trade for Kolb/Palmer...
Then Leinart would certainly be given an opportunity to compete for the #1 job. I don’t know if Leinart makes sense for Seattle, but Seattle makes a lot of sense for Leinart.
by Kip Earlywine on May 12, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
At least rumors are something.
I’m already sick of baseball.
by grinch11 on May 11, 2011 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I'll take NFL rumors over baseball.
Every. Day.
And NBA is only momentarily interesting, during the last seven games, if then.
GOD I HATE THIS BS!
I can't watch or follow the NBA since the Sonics left.
It’s especially hard during the playoffs as long as the Thunder are still in it.
by Johnny Slick on May 11, 2011 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
If it makes you feel any better...
I told one of my patrons tonight that she isn’t allowed to wear Thunder stuff into my bar….
“Ha! ha! … funny!…. oh?…. not so much?….. oh, okay…. .”
Seriously, I’m a baseball fan first, so I see this like wearing a “Tampa Bay Mariners!” shirt into a Seattle bar. Seriously, fuck you.
by egreenlaw9 on May 12, 2011 3:38 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I support your position
Same for me with anything Carolina Hurricanes. Long live the Whale.!!!…….
My wife and I will be visiting Seattle Mid-June, Sounds like your bar is pretty cool. What’s the name of the bar? Maybe we’ll drop by before the Mariners-Phillies game on one of those days.
Yep.
I can’t watch baseball and the NBA is dead to me.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 12, 2011 5:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Your "snap back to reality" paragraph perfectly frames the situation
I happen to agree with it 100%. I think Carroll and Bevell want a veteran, and if it’s not Palmer, it’ll be Hasselbeck.
Despite ‘rebuilding’, Carroll will never throw in the towel in the name of ‘developing’ or ‘testing out’ young players. It’s too risky, and usually leads to bad football.
Unlike a rookie/unproven/inexperience QB, an experienced (if aging) QB can carry a young offense and summon up some veteran savvy to keep the ball moving.
In a few years, when the offense is a bit more experienced and ready, they’ll install a young quarterback that will be carried by his experienced offense until he develops.
"Pass rushers enter the world of Okung but never leave." - JM
Something to keep in mind - something that rarely seems to be talked about
is that football is the only sport in which poor performance can actually lead to injury. While it may be more true of the OL, a QB can lead his receivers into armageddon over the middle. Something PC is thinking about, perhaps.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
by THolt on May 11, 2011 3:02 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
You've never seen Mike Morse play outfield
He’s so bad at catching a baseball he separated his shoulder trying once.
Or the Yuni-Endy Fiasco.
I stand corrected. But the point stands.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
by THolt on May 12, 2011 1:04 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This is a much better example
I can’t believe he’s starting for Milwaukee, but now we’re getting too deep into baseball.
This FO had 200 roster transactions last year
They’re not guys that etch their personnel plans in stone. I think they’ve got a list of guys they want for QB (Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, . . . , Plan Z, Plan AA, etc) and there’s a good chance that Leinart is somewhere on it (hopefully about 5 or 6 down from the top and somewhere above TJax).
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on May 11, 2011 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
"Plan AA" made me snort out loud
It’s truer than it is funny rather than funnier than it is true, but either way, it’s both!
Plan AA is to trade Vernon Wells for Mike Napoli, I think.
by Johnny Slick on May 11, 2011 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
You both are flagged for your baseball references
I hope it was worth it, because its going on your permanent records.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on May 11, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I would rather try and develop Leinart under a veteran QB than Whitehurst.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the FO brought in 3 QBs to compete with CW for the job.
I think both Whitehurst and Leinart are old enough to be past the "development" stage.
Even if you’re not starting many games, once you’re in your late twenties these guys are in the “shit or get off the pot” stage; that doesn’t mean that said players couldn’t perform better with certain teams or operating within certain offenses. However, these guys are as developed as their ever going to get.
Nothing simulates a real game, and for that matter the same applies to taking snaps with the first team.
Which, yeah, Beerbong had a chance to do, but Jesus hasn’t, much anyways. If we bring Leinart in it better be on the cheap.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
by THolt on May 12, 2011 1:07 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Here's an analogy I've made up for this:
development QB:still in grad school, or summer internship::CW & Lienart’s situation:1st (or in their case, 3rd or 4th) day at actual work.
Maybe it’s just semantics, but at the same time “development” to me means they could still learn some things on the bench. I think both these guys have spent enough time on the bench.
I like the idea of getting Leinart in there.
Sure, the odds are against him, but this is as good a position as I think he can expect. He’d get a shot at starting because let’s face it, even if they bring Hasselbeck back, he still sucks and will likely lose his job by midseason. He has to know that, and at this point who else is going to give him that opportunity?
As for development, I’d hope that Leinart doesn’t have a lot of that left either. He did tutor under Kurt Warner for 2 years.
Carroll does know how to get the best out of him
I’m not sure of everything that is involved in the Seahawks offense, but it does seem like it is closer to the offense Denny Green ran with us in 2006 when Leinart was a rookie in Arizona that also appeared to be a better fit for him than the offense Whisenhunt ran that was a better fit to how Warner played (he also struggled more under Denny Green).
I’ve said on here before that I’ve always been a fan of Leinart, and I am interested in seeing what he does if another team gives him a chance to start.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I still think Leinart is nothing without Norm Chow
To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.
This is complete conjecture but
Leinart’s handedness makes RT a little more important in pass coverage. Carpenter fits the profile of a RT that could handle protecting a lefties blindside (if Rob Stanton is to be believed).
Could this have been a consideration on day 1 of the draft?
Probably making too many connections here.
At any rate, it’s always seemed to me that a lefty QB could be a pretty big advantage if you have the personnel to account for it (mainly at RT).
by vertigoman on May 11, 2011 3:11 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I've wondered about that myself.
Carpenter was the perfect “bring Leinhart in on a flier” draft selection.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 11, 2011 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought the same thing.
I’m more thinking that signing Leinart could be the product of drafting Carpenter, rather than drafting Carpenter being the result of a desire to sign Leinart. Either way, I feel much better about bringing in Leinart as a result of this draft.
by Mind of no mind on May 11, 2011 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't Palmer also a lefty?
I think the Carpenter pick would be helpful regardless, given the opening at QB. You never know who will be available to you draft-wise, so why not bulk up both sides of the line and leave yourself prepared either way.
I don’t necessarily think he was brought in for Leinart specifically, but just to hedge bets all the way around.
by splintrdmind on May 11, 2011 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
No. He's still a righty.
(Someone said that the other day.)
Well, I suppose he could be a lefty, just a damn versatile one.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 11, 2011 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Huh. Fair enough.
Not sure where I heard that he was a lefty.
by splintrdmind on May 11, 2011 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Leonardo or Donatello told you that.
Sorry, every time I see your name I think of Splinter from the Ninja Turtles.
Turtle Power?
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 12, 2011 5:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe someone flipped the negative!
Or someone got the wrong Palmer! Are you sure that’s the correct Palmer?
Bite the wax tadpole.
As long as they actually get an honest shot and it isn't "Matt's job unless someone is markedly better."
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 11, 2011 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm all in favor of a Whitehurst/Leinart/Johnson/Whoever Else Smorgasbord
In other words, CW and the two best Free Agent QBs the Seahawks can sign (if the Palmer and Kolb deals are a no-go). It would be a marked improvement over the Seneca Wallace/Charlie Frye suckfest of 2008, and we may find a decent QB for dirt cheap. Maybe.
I agree,
I’d like to see Whitehurst/Leinart/TJack/UDFA QB all in camp. If the best player of that group cannot take this team anywhere, we draft a QB with our 1st round pick, and if we need too, throw in some more picks to move up and get the #2 QB in the draft (I’m sure Luck would cost too much).
by Mind of no mind on May 11, 2011 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Look at this picture of Leinart...
Danny, this tells me that you don’t have a very high opinion of Leinart and I don’t really either. It looks to me like this is either half time or the end of a game that they are losing and he knows that he’s about to get yelled at. Definitely not the look of a starting NFL QB.
I'm not entirely sure about Leinart one way or another
I watched a little bit of him from 2009 recently and there were some GODAWFUL throws in there. But, he’s also had a few good games as a pro so he’s got some potential. I think I’ll go back again and watch some more because it’s intriguing.
I think a lot of it is getting put in the right situation. He doesn’t have the overwhelming skill to succeed anywhere but I haven’t written him off yet. Playing QB is such a mental game and it seems like he has failed in the mental aspect so far, but that’s not to say he couldn’t change if he gets some confidence back (something he claims he has done).
But I agree with you on one thing: His body language needs to change. He needs to get that swagger back that he had at USC.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
Wow. That's quite a reach.
Looks to me like a pre-game photo. Maybe the game he won against us in Arizona when Shaun and Hasselbeck had that monstrous fuck-up of a handoff at midfield.
Random note— he’s 2-0 as a starter against Seattle.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 11, 2011 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I read this on Seahawks Draft Blog with full credit to "AlexHawk"
What about Bruce Gradkowski? He has history with Cable, Al Davis said he isn’t coming back, and he is a free agent. He does have extensive injury issues, but he was a starter, and at times looked good for Oakland.
After reading AlexHawk’s comment I went ahead and googled Bruce Gradkowski contract, which took me to rotoworld and this article.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/37906/59/the-2011-quarterback-market
Pretty weird coincidence.
But what do the people think? Would you rather have him, T. Jackson, M. Leinart, or the always popular none of the above?
I've got a piece written on Gradkowski and that Evan Silva article that I'll post tomorrow.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
Yeah, I'll include a poll
No worries, I saw that Silva article too and was surprised to see Gradkowski on there. I hadn’t even thought about him but he makes sense as a backup and apparently Cable loves him.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
I've always liked Gradkowski.
I’d certainly rather have him than Leinart or Jackson.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 11, 2011 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I've always liked Leinart
I’ve always gotten the feeling that whiz never wanted to even give him a chance for some reason. I’d be happy for him to get a chance here in seattle.
Whisenhunt was never hot on Leinart
Whisenhunt was a late (12th!) round pick, and the rumor is that he saw Leinart as a 1st-round softie.
Personally, I disagree, and I’ll tell Ken that whenever he mans up and shows up at my doorstep.
Eh.
He had arguably the best receiving corps in the NFL and still couldn’t put it together. I don’t have a lot of hope for Leinart.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
by Wayward Llama on May 12, 2011 5:13 AM PDT up reply actions
His college time was spent with an amazing running game and a great OL
He had good, not great WRs, in the pure WR sense. AZ didn’t have a R. Bush type of guy, or a consistent run game. I have hope for a guy like him in our system and what we are building to. He probably will fail, but it would be worth the minimal cost to give him a shot.
All he had here was Fitz and Boldin
Not a good O-Line, no running game.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I still think Matt is the Plan A choice, but
Leinart on a 1 year deal for cheap would be great. Gradkowski for under a million would be great. And there are sum UFA’s out there that we’ll probably sign. The pattern seems to be to bring in as many people as possible, and see who sticks. Depending on when the CBA stuff gets settled, I bet we will see 6 or more QB’s signed over the next year.
Hey it worked for WR...
But seriously though, I think a trade for Palmer or resign Hasselbeck or even a trade for Kolb would be the first option, and then putting in the QBs into the pile and let it sort itself out.
I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul - Invictus
I hope so.
I am a sucker for a great story, and the stories I would like to see play out are (in order)
Mat comes back behind a much improved line and proves that without defenders in his uniform with him, he is still great.
Leinart comes in after an emotional woodshedding in AZ and plays lights out, and helps us “own the west” and destroys the Cards hopes of ever making the playoffs until he retires.
Palmer wins, gets traded, we take him and he flourishes here.
We suck this year and enter next year’s draft with a high pick that we translate into the next JohnyUtana ManniBreeze and in the second round the next Jerry Rice.
I would take anything Scott Wolf reports with a grain of salt.
He is a joke in the USC football beat reporter community and routinely misrepresents and distorts stories against USC players and coaches. His #1 target for ridicule is Pete Carroll followed closely by Leinart. He is also a spitting image of Gargamel.
All The Way, AIRBORNE!!!
by Airborne Hawk Guy on May 11, 2011 4:17 PM PDT reply actions
I dont know
Honestly I dont want us to go for Kolb or Palmer… I would hate to give up future picks or players for either of these guys if that happens. Palmer is getting old and Kolb has really done much to impress me, remember new england trading him to kansas? Id rather pick up leinart or resign hass and take that chance, we are in rebuilding mode anyways its going to take a few years to get back on top and im willing to wait and watch it unfold. In carroll I trust!
Uhm?
I think you are crossing Kolb with Cassell, who went from NE to Kansas City.
Regardless, I agree with you about Kolb and am impartial about Palmer.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 11, 2011 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you actually watch football?!?
by CMoney87 on May 11, 2011 9:38 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Go easy.
He’s a new poster and this is his only SB Nation blog thus far. We should welcome him into the community nicely.
His thoughts tell me he watches football.
I’m more concerned about the grammar/editing getting in the way of productive conversation. Stev0, welcome. Take a look at this link— it includes the community standards and guidelines for our site.
"When Pete first got here he said he wanted to establish the run and stop the run
Pete’s the architect and Cable’s the contractor." --Greetings from the Lord Humongous!
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 11, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Why not?
I could easily see Carroll making Leinart a reclamation project 3rd QB. He loves second chances, and Leinart is a guy who fits the second-chance mold. I also don’t think that Carroll likes bringing in guys who are determined to be second or third stringers. I think it’s likely to be Hass or Palmer AND Charlie AND Leinart or UDFA who all compete to start.
PLEASE.......no Carson Palmer
Palmer runs like Hass but doesn’t have…….never mind. I just can’t the inability to at least move laterally to escape the rush. We might need some mobility while the line comes around. We don’t need TheVarius……but we don’t need stationary either.
How about Randel El??? Top rated passer last year.
by HawksGettingMedieval on May 11, 2011 4:46 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Then we shouldn't play Palmer at Running Back.
Palmer has (mostly) survived behind unimpressive lines for his entire career in Cincy, and has been largely successful there. Not sure why a lack of mobility would suddenly be a problem here.
You don't necessarily need a ton of lateral movement to escape pass rush.
The important thing is to be able to navigate the pocket, particularly stepping up into it. Palmer can still do that, Hasselbeck is a statue out there.
I'm rather high on Leinart.
If it were up to me he’d be my second choice behind Palmer, and he would be on my team anyway as a backup role. He has shown flashes of being great. I remember a rookie year game of his against the rams when he drove the ball into scoring position to win the game twice only to see a missed field goal, and i think a fumble… He has thrown his share of bad passes, but every young quarterback does.
He is the only person I think we can pick up that isn’t a stop gap and has a chance of being very good for us for a very long time. Do I think it will pan out? I don’t know. But he’s got a shot at it.
Remember, before he was released by the Cards, he did basically out play Anderson by a wide margin. He just wasn’t given a whole lot of oppurtunities, even for the post season. I’m on this bandwagon like the Music man came to town.
If we could only get a John David Booty to Seattle rumor going,
we’d have ’em all; Palmer, Leinart… Hell, Mustain is an UDFA. Sign him!
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
Weinke!
Wait, I don’t think he was a Trojan.
by Johnny Slick on May 11, 2011 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions
No, but he sucked too. Lump him in, what the hell, drag him out of retirement.
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
We'd need Sanchez too.
Then draft Matt Barkley next year.
and he looks EXACTLY like the kind of QB that Carroll would want.
Expect to hear talk about Barkley to Seattle for the next year… like the Locker talk, but worse.
Absolutely.
And of course let’s not forget to pry Matt Cassel away from KC. And now they have Stanzi, should be easy.
I'm gonna go calm submissive on your ass.
Aaron Corpse is out there still as well
To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.
Leinart blows
We could have had him for nothing last year. Don’t see why he would be more appealing now.
Cuz now we're more desperate,
and can still have him for nothing.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
And he could be potentially further humbled by the last season and might now be realizing how tenuous his NFL opportunity now is.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 14, 2011 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
If you look at what some of these rumored QB's have in common
1. They have some history with the coaching staff. Whitehurst played with the team last year. Leinart played for Carroll at USC. Jackson played in a Bevell offense in Minnesota. In an August interview, Bevell stated:
“I think Tarvaris has come a long way. He’s doing a great job in terms of his maturity, his leadership ability, how he’s running our team. He’s taking it like it’s his own. There are other little things just within plays I’m seeing. He’s improved a bunch.”
This was during Favregate 2010 and before the team had decided between using Jackson or Sage Rosenfels as the emergency option if Favre retired. Bevell seems to have a pretty high opinion of Jackson, and we assume Carroll has a relatively high opinion of Leinart.
2. None are rookies, or even particularly young. They’re all past the “developmental” stage of their careers. Conversely, none has established himself- Leinart looked terrible in AZ, and Whitehurst and Jackson have been shaky at best in limited action. However, they’ve all been practicing and learning in the NFL for 3-5 years, and have experience with the coaches. Quarterback is a position with a steep learning curve, and this is as ready as these guys will ever be.
3. They can be had on the (relative) cheap. These guys won’t be making an “established” QB’s (i.e. Delhomme) salary.
Basically, I think that this would be the backup option if Palmer/Hasselbeck/Kolb falls through or proves too costly. Add two players like Jackson and Leinart to the roster, throw them against a wall, and see who sticks. Carroll’s mantra has always been “Compete”, so why not have 3 QB’s who are all as ready now as ever, have experience with the offense, and are cheap? Whittle it down to 2 (or 1) by the end of the preseason, drop the 3rd guy, add a UDFA, and you have a nice, cheap little QB battle with a bit of immediate upside.
If they were to add a more proven guy like Kolb or Palmer, it would make sense to look for a more developmental player, like a Josh Johnson, as a hedge on Kolb or a potential replacement for Palmer, when he becomes unavailable due to injuries or retirement.
It all depends on how far in the future you are looking at the teams development
I hope we don’t give up anything, because in the next year or two I want us to draft our QBOTF. Kolb and to some extent Palmer will reduce our draft choices, which will reduce our ability to continue to develop. It will also reduce our ammunition for drafting the QBOTF. Kolb is unproven, since he has only played OK with some of the best offensive weapons in the league, around him. Palmer is aging and has a limited window to continue to contribute.
So…..
Am I willing to trade away future assets to get either of those two, or do I want to use what I have in hand, or sign guys that cost me nothing?
I think we are building for three to five years from now. I think we have the goal of being a SB team in 3-5 years. That would include a new QBOTF, with a solid run game and defense. We can continue to be a SB team as our QBOTF develops and can start to dominate the offense. If what I think is true, next year we will concentrate our draft on the D line, unless the QBOTF is available. I want that plan to continue to develop, because I think we are building this team the correct way.
So….
Go get Lienart or TJ or Gradsoidfjasodfj or whoever you want to compete with CW and give us a chance to win right now, but don’t spend a single draft pick on anyone that isn’t the QBOTF.
by stufr on May 12, 2011 4:20 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The UDFA will be surprise starter for Hawks at QB come Sept.
Twitter has it that his name is Spud Sofacowski.
by broadbill birdwatcher on May 12, 2011 9:51 AM PDT reply actions
Someone 'splain this to me
What I don’t get is the enormous amount of hate and vitriol for Hass. Yes he makes mistakes and yes he may have the occasional " what the heck was that?" moment, but the man can still play football. Given the time from the O line and even a little support from a running game and he can still read a defense and win you games. 8-8 or 9-7 will still win this division and I can see him providing that. Why should we sign a “QBOTF” from another team when those guys either can’t crack the starting line up or stay there if they did, i.e TJAX, JJohnson, Leinart. OR why should we mortgage the future on a guy like Kolb or Palmer, both of whom have had major surgeries within the last 3-5 years.
Hass knows the system, he is an older QB (experienced), and would be perfect to help usher in a new offensive line. To go a step further, would you rather have a struggling offense or one that can move the ball a bit to help take pressure off of a defense that is trying to obviously rebuild a secondary with a ton of young guys in their first and second years in the league?
I just think that Hass is the guy we should sign, even for a one year, but preferably for a two year deal to help this transition.
1) I think some people don't like his physical ability to play the position anymore
2) Some just want to go full rebuild and a mid 30’s QB isn’t the future.
3) Still some others seem to just want something different.
-I don’t buy that he lacks the physical ability. He showed he still has ability when healthy and his arm strength issues proved to be exaggerated. None of his injuries are chronic and while the perception is that he’s beat up and old he actually sat the first half of his career.
-Hass needs a line and a run game. He isn’t an elite QB that can overcome the lack of a line and/or run game but he’s still a capable QB that can run a team effectively. Given our lack of improvement in those areas Hass seems like dead weight to those in the second category
-For those that just want something different, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I’m on the fence when it comes to Hass because I’m on the fence about the running game and line.
I have tried to stay politic when it comes to Hass because he is very respected here in Seattle and there's no telling if he'd be better or worse than the alternative
But as the Cincy Jungle’s Josh Kirkendall, a fairly unbiased person in this argument as he’s out of this city and doesn’t really care about the history Matt has made here, put it:
Matt Hasselbeck… hasn’t sported a winning record as a starting quarterback since 2007. In his last three seasons, Hasselbeck has only thrown 34 touchdowns, posted 44 interceptions, compiled a 71.2 passer rating, completed 58.5% of his passes, averaged 6.4 yards/pass and fumbled the football 19 times.
Excuses about the line, the run game, the protection, anything aside, those numbers are horrific. Possibly in the bottom 5 league wide for any QB. That’s why I think people have had enough of it. Could he turn it around? Maybe. But doubtful.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
by Danny Kelly on May 12, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Great quote find.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 12, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Ignoring passer rating, the rest of those numbers really paint the picture.
That’s only compounded when you actually watch him play and you see how stiff, immobile, and frantic he looks these days.
You really don't attribute his poor performance to line play?
Yes his numbers are horrific. And there is no excusing all of it. Surely he’s responsible for his own performance.
But the team is also responsible with the brunt of that falling to the line. how many TEs were employed to help a week pass protection thus leaving the available targets double and sometimes triple covered?
Maybe a change is the best thing and I’m on the fence. But people that are quick to write him off are likely too young to remember the Stoufers and Mirer’s. Too quick to discount what other mid 30’s QB’s have done and are doing.
I don't think that most people are quick to write him off.
He has been in a steady decline since his 2007 season. If people were calling for him to be cut in 2008 or even 2009, it could be considered quick to write him off. The situation we’re in now is more about seeing him decline season after season and deciding that it’s time to move on. The Seahawks were about average in pass protection last year, which is good enough for a fair evaluation of a quarterback. Although I will admit that the poor running game and extensive use of a TE on the line didn’t help much.
to be fair
Matt played with a bulging disc throughout 2008, broken ribs throughout 2009.
Last year he actually improved as the year went on (for a variety of reasons) then broke his off hand.
are we sure his physical abilities are in decline? I’m not sold on that at all.
he might not be the right man for the Hawks going fwd but it’s not because he’s done.
by vertigoman on May 13, 2011 11:52 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm sure in his 37 38 and 39 year old seasons, he'll be better.
His arm will suddenly get stronger and be more like a 25 or 30 year old version of himself, and he’ll be better than ever. His legs will always remain fresh and his back will never be sore.
He’s old. He’s physically declined, and he’s at an age where it only gets worse, not better.
He’s a warrior, there’s no doubt. And a great leader and from what I’ve seen from afar, a great person. But none of those things can make him suddenly be younger and healthier.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 13, 2011 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
He finished the year healthy
and looked good doing it.
Even with one hand tied behind his back.
He sat for the first 6 years of his career. I think he has something left. Performing late into your 30’s is not without precedent for QBs.
Still, he may not be the best option for the Hawks going fwd, I’ll concede that much.
He finished the year healthy?
But he didn’t play the year healthy, and hasn’t had a healthy year, nor really, a productive one since his career year in 2007. And one great game and one solid one don’t erase a season full of relatively poor play on a relatively consistent basis.
Performing late into your 30’s is not uncommon for QB’s, but the profile for one that lasts long isn’t a guy like Matt. Those who last typically stayed healthy consistently and avoided nagging injuries, and in particular back/core injuries.
I’m glad you’ll at least concede he may not be the best option going forward. I’m terrified anyone thinks he could actually be even a moderately short term option for us going forward. If he re-signs for anything more than a single season, it’s money wasted and progress not gained toward a future Seahawks powerhouse.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 14, 2011 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
He lacked the physical ability last year and it will only get worse this year.
Last year he was completely unable to throw the ball further than 10 yards downfield without floating it up in the air for anyone to catch. Defenses caught onto this particularly in the second half of the season and really started to jam guys like Mike Williams hard. He’s going to be even older this year and therefore even less physically able; additionally, while folks could excuse the couple seasons before 2010 as being due to injury, Hass was really about as healthy as one could reasonably expect him to be last year and he still didn’t have it.
As for the line and the run game, I can’t help but think that much of those issues were due to the fact that opposing defenses could stack 8 guys in the box without fear of being punished by the QB downfield. The only times the Seahawks had long pass plays were a. when a receiver caught the ball short and gained yardage after the catch, and b. when the play scripted a receiver to throw a double move (for example, the hook and go route worked well a couple times). The second bit is a nice “cagey QB” strategy but the problem with it is that plays take too long to develop and in addition if the defender isn’t fooled by the first move, the play is dead. And when the D doesn’t respect your ability to punish them downfield, they can run cover-1 defenses with the corners cheating in and kill what could have been a decent running game otherwise.
Fact is, Hasselbeck was one of the worst QBs to keep his job last year – really it’s down to either him or Favre. I like his history, too, but it’s time to face facts that the man is done.
by Johnny Slick on May 12, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said, Johnny.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 12, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, no disrespect but
Last year he was completely unable to throw the ball further than 10 yards downfield without floating it up in the air for anyone to catch.
BS. You’re seeing what you want to see.
He has the same arm he’s always had. He’s been hurt off and on since 2007 with all the injuries being more or less unrelated. I don’t believe in “injury prone” just like I don’t believe in the tooth fairy. When healthy he’s been effective. Notice how I’ve not jumped to his defense in some kind of polarized internet debate here.
The only times the Seahawks had long pass plays were a. when a receiver caught the ball short and gained yardage after the catch, and b. when the play scripted a receiver to throw a double move (for example, the hook and go route worked well a couple times).
Overly simplified I’m sure so you can make a concise point.
Double moves could be just as much a product of poor separation ability by the receivers as could be related to Matt’s arm. And all teams employ double moves.
In fact after they traded branch and Butler went down they had zero deep threats on the team.
This is not true.
“He has the same arm he’s always had.”
Well, technically it’s true, there’s been no new young arm attached in place of his riddled old one. Perhaps that’s the problem.
But no, he absolutely does not“ have the same arm.” He never had a powerful arm, but he was always strong enough with enough velocity to throw the ball into open windows. Now he needs bigger windows than ever, because he lacks the ability to get the ball accurately there “with mustard.”
His “bomb” that people cite to prove he can still throw 35-40 yards? It almost created rain… and he had to wind up and hurl it. You realize most QB’s can make that throw as quickly and easily and on a line like a shortstop turning a double play? Meanwhile ours has to get a run at making the throw, like an outfielder throwing from the wall to home, and it still sails on a bad line.
Yes, he can heave it and actually get the ball to fly 40 yards. But in that heave between the time it takes to throw (not to mention the protection required) and the extra exertion to throw it, he’s lost the thing that made him, once upon a time, great. He’s lost his touch.
He can’t hit a WR in stride anymore like he used to, particularly on post and seam routes. So we’re stuck with a modified narrowed “flat field” playbook— and defenses who keep 8 9 or 10 in the box because they don’t respect him over the top.
Will a new improved line help him a little. Absolutely. But that’s true for every quarterback. Would an improved WR corp help? Again, yes. But at a certain point you have to stop rebuilding the entire car around an engine with 300k on it and get a new car, or at least a new engine.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 13, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Bevell's offense doesn't require the kind of arm you covet
And by far and wide arms like that are not attached to brains that can handle the position.
But your opinion about his arm is just that. I guess it’’ll come down to PCs opinion on that subject and not yours or mine.
Will a new improved line help him a little. Absolutely. But that’s true for every quarterback. Would an improved WR corp help? Again, yes. But at a certain point you have to stop rebuilding the entire car around an engine with 300k on it and get a new car, or at least a new engine.
New engines in the NFL take a few years to develop. Unlike real life car engines, NFL engines don’t come with a warranty.
Having Hass hold down the fort isn’t the end of the world.
You do realize that until you allow the new engine to be put in the car, it will never get broken in, right?
And Hass is well past warranty. He’s in “why should I put more money into this damn engine it’s just going to break down again” mode. Or have you missed the past 4 seasons?
“Having Hass hold down the fort isn’t the end of the world.”
Well, that’s plenty optimistic. Yes, you’re right. It wont be the end of the world. But it will be yet another Seattle season wasted. I would, just once, like to see a Seattle hero ride off into the sunset a little early, instead of overstaying his welcome and leaving to scorn and derision. HoF QB’s have been pushed out of places faster than we push Hass. It’s pretty pathetic of us, really. We either lose our stars too early or too late, but never at the perfect time, like if Hass left and went somewhere else this year.
No, it isn’t the end of the world, but there are a hell of a lot of better options for us than to court mediocrity with no forward momentum into the future.
And as for Bevell’s offense, well, I’m not so sold we know what Bevell’s offense is. I think the modern WCO morphs according to the talent you have running it. In our case, we’ve had a QB who can’t stretch the field, so we’re used to a completely different version than that of GB or Philly. Bevell’s may very well look more vertical with superior talent at the QB position. Sidney Rice was a deep threat with Favre in the Minny version. I believe if he had the personnel he would stretch the field. Why wouldn’t you if the defense is packing it in?
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 14, 2011 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
And Hass is well past warranty. He’s in "why should I put more money into this damn engine it’s just going to break down again" mode. Or have you missed the past 4 seasons?
Good analogy. Funny too. i just don’t buy injury prone. If his back is an issue then that’s something that will be taken into account with any interested team. It’s easily identifiable. As for the other injuries, broken ribs, the hip/butt injury, broken hand….nothing that is chronic.
However, someone like Palmer who’s had ligament damage (both ACL and UCL I believe) would come with warning signs. And Palmer represents the best stop gap option besides Hass. Kolb might be something, but would you give up a 1st rounder for him? How about 2 1st rounders if the bidding heats up?
And no, we don’t know what Bevell’s offense will be exactly. But he isn’t exactly Martz now is he? He’s had a balanced, tempo setting, ball control play book (save for Favre who does what he wants). PC and JS brought in Cable and have gone on record saying they want a QB that is a “point guard” distributing type.
i really think there is more evidence to suggest a traditional WC offense than one of the hybrids.
You might not want that but it’s what seems to be in the cards here.
I'm just not sold on that.
Though you’re right, I don’t want it either. But I do think the variation is dependent on what talent is at hand…
I honestly would rather go with Charlie and FA signings than trade for anything. If it works, great, we’ve found our QB. If it doesn’t, then we’ll likely be bad enough to draft a QBOTF next year.
And either way, our last memory of Hasselbeck can be one of his great Saints game and a solid performance against Chicago. It is highly unlikely next year will end on such a high note for him to walk away from Seattle a hero.
Please, Seattle. Can we rebuild the right way for once...That means without a faded hero leading a charge towards mediocrity.... And if you haven't figured it out yet, that means no more Hasselbeck.
by Tyler Jorgensen on May 16, 2011 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
To tell you the truth
I can’t remember Krieg’s last season with the Hawks.
I do remember him heaving up that game winning throw against KC after being sacked 7 times by D. Thomas though.
His last season with the Hawks was injury riddled I believe.
He went onto to have a few more decent but not great seasons as a journeyman.
Seattle continued on with Gelbaugh, Stouffer and McQwire.
How much better is CW today than Stouffer was 20 years ago (yikes!)? How much better is Leinart today than Stouffer was? Gelbaugh was a late round nobody that won the job from the 1st round bust Stouffer. I’d liken him to Max Hall. But that was cool because we were developing our QB of the future. Dan McGwire.
History tends to repeat, I guess that’s why I’m on the fence about retaining the services of an aging yet still effective QB.
OL? What OL?
I understand that when a QB drops back to pass he shouldn’t have 300-lb + DT’s chasing him all over with evil intent on EVERY play. Obviously QB pressure is a big part of a defensive game plan and the Seahawks OL hasn’t been capable of providing anything near “average” QB protection. How many times can a QB be in the pocket, trying to do his job only to have the fat guys fail to do theirs?
I also think that Hass may have been somewhat gun shy after being on his back too much. IMO his naturally declining physical stature due to age is at least partially offset by his mental capabilities and experience that is not there with young QB’s just coming into the league. Also, I don’t think there is much to be gained by the continuous back and forth arguments on Hass and his future. PC and JS will figure that part out as their jobs depend on it.
I think Hass will be done when in the judgement of Pete Carroll he can no longer win QB competitions or have enough left to be a back-up and not when we GM wannabes speculate (especially when the speculation is based on what we read online, which is often based on guesses or some ahole’s “analyst” rambles. It sure seems to me that almost every media type, blog writer, sports writer and self proclaimed guru has an obligation to write something, regardless of the truth, accuracy or actual football knowledge on the part of the writer/guru.
Jim Q.
by CamanoIslandJQ on May 20, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Obviously You Have Never Played Madden ('10 or 11) With Hass
I know it’s simulation, but it’s almost as frustrating to play with him as watching in real life.
Guy can play, but sometimes you are like, What The Fook did he throw it there for?
I love Hass, but dude needs a scenery change.
I have no problem with rumor mongering
Really, as long as it is presented openly as such, and not painted as factual, I see no issues with it- especially in an offseason like this where rumors are all we have.
I personally find rumors fun. They give us possibilities to think about.
Yeah, so called "rumor mongering" has it's place and some people don't like it
But I’ve tried to frame it in a fun light for the most part – what it could mean for the Hawks and whatnot. I’m not trying to be a “reporter” or whatever so there’s a big distinction there I think.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
by Danny Kelly on May 12, 2011 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Scott Wolf is one of the least reliable journalists in the world
and doubly so on anything related to USC
To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.
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