Coffee and Cigarettes: Seahawks' Links for Monday
by Danny Kelly on Jun 20, 2011 7:00 AM PDT
in Seahawks News & Rumors
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Seattle Seahawks news, rumors, links, info, interviews, analysis. You name it, I got it here for you.
More info on the Raheem Brock arrest - CBSSports.com: "Apparently, Brock’s party was asked to leave the Copacabana because a woman who was with Brock had brought in food from another restaurant. So, the party left without paying its bar tab. The restaurant called the police, and officers found Brock at a restaurant across the street. "He wouldn't come outside and wouldn't comply with the officers," police spokesman Tanya Little told the paper. "They tried to put the handcuffs on him and he resisted." Little said Brock wasn’t violent with the officers, but the original responders called for backup to help subdue him. Brock was released without bail, and he has a court hearing scheduled for Tuesday."
Specter: Congress Should Intervene to End NFL Lockout | PoliticsPA: "Arlen Specter knows how to make news. In an op-ed to the New York Times this weekend, the long-serving U.S. Senator urged Congressional action to solve the seemingly intractable National Football League players’ strike and owners’ lockout. Citing the $5 billion economic impact that the 2011 season is projected to have (not including ticket sales and TV revenue), Specter argued that the antitrust exemptions granted the NFL by Congress gives the government leverage in the situation."
Dear Seahawks Fans, Maybe It’s Time To Let Matt Hasselbeck Go - |: "He is the best quarterback in franchise history outside of maybe Dave Krieg, but maybe it’s time to say goodbye to Matt Hasselbeck (if that is what he wants). For months, I’ve wanted Hasselbeck to come back and that can still happen. But as the off-season has dragged on with little movement in the NFL labor talks between the owners and players, I’ve come to realize maybe it’s better Seattle does not resign Hasselbeck and just go with Charlie Whitehurst."
Mac's Football Blog: Report: Seahawks Expected to Sign Matt Leinart: "Charlie Whitehurst is the only quarterback the Seahawks' have under contract for 2011. Whitehurst is due $4 million in non-guaranteed base salary, did not "wow" anyone in his first season in Seattle, and is unsigned beyond this season, making it likely that up to three quarterbacks will be added before the Seahawks open training camp."
Despite lockout, Carroll still competing - Blog - MyNorthwest.com: ""We've been doing everything that we normally do," Carroll explained. "It's been normal for us with the exception of being on the field with the players. Of course it's not normal that we don't get to see them working out and all that, but we've done all of our work, we're ready for the season.""
Gabe Carimi: Chicago Bears top pick just wants to play - Chicago Tribune: "Whatever way it goes, Carimi doesn't just talk with confidence, he exudes it. He has been working out at Wisconsin with John Moffitt (Seahawks) and Bill Nagy (Cowboys), teammates who also were drafted, as well as former Badger Eric Vanden Heuvel (Ravens). Now, he's giving his body a rest and doing a little traveling, including a trip to Florida for the NFL's rookie symposium."
Waiting Game: The NFL Lockout and Nate Williams: "Nate Williams, a former Husky Safety and a recent UW graduate, is one of many that has had his NFL career and his NFL dream on hold as he waits for the lockout to lift. As of now, no team can even contact him, no team can even email him, he has no idea if teams are interested in him or not. He doesn’t know where he will live or where he will play, he could play anywhere in the country. It could be the New York Giants, the Seattle Seahawks, the San Diego Charger, or the Atlanta Falcons. Everything about his future is on hold and in waiting as the NFL remains locked out."
NFP Sunday Blitz | National Football Post: "*Chances are looking good that the Seahawks may have two new quarterbacks by the time camp opens. They tried to re-sign Matt Hasselbeck before the lockout started and couldn’t come to terms. Now they may move on if they can find a better alternative (hello, Kevin Kolb) as a starter. Getting hurt in each of the last three years has left Hasselbeck vulnerable in Seattle. And it would almost be an upset if the Seahawks didn’t sign Matt Leinart to come in as a backup. The Seahawks might not be crazy about what they have seen of Leinart on tape, but coach Pete Carroll has won a lot of games with him, and he thinks he can win some more."
Redskins, other NFL players say informal workouts are better than nothing during lockout - The Washington Post: "Players are quick to admit that their efforts are no match for what the team provides, but say the workouts are better than doing nothing at all."
Oakland Raiders' Taiwan Jones takes unconventional journey to NFL - San Jose Mercury News: "Taiwan Jones reads football defenses as if he has a cheat sheet. Recognizing and understanding the written word has proved to be a much tougher obstacle. In keeping with his style, Jones stared down the challenge presented by dyslexia and landed a job with the Raiders after being forced to take an unconventional path from high school."
Possible position switch would be a challenge for Pryor - NFL - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com: "But if he can't, and some club decides that Pryor's best chance of playing in the league is at wide receiver -- a quarterback chosen in any round of the supplemental draft since the Giants took Dave Brown in the first in 1992 -- onetime UCLA quarterback-turned-NFL-wide receiver Drew Bennett has some advice for the erstwhile Ohio State star: Buy into the change."
10 players to track this summer | National Football Post: "The mock draft feature will be launching at the beginning of July, so if you have any questions between now and then, feel free to hit me up on Twitter or at Joe.Fortenbaugh@NationalFootballPost.com. In addition, I’ll be holding several mock drafts and live chats throughout the upcoming weeks that you are welcome to attend. As for today’s fantasy homework assignment, it’s time to start getting familiar with some of the best value picks that will be on the board come August."
Who are the lockout's biggest losers? | National Football Post: "Rookie Free Agents Usually rookie free agents are signed within a few hours of the draft ending. Because of the lockout, no rookie free agents have been signed yet. None of these kids have a clue as to where they will be playing. On top of that, they lost time to impress coaches during the mini-camps, offseason program and OTA’s. With a good impression in the offseason program, a coach can then plan as to how to utilize the player when camp opens. That won’t be the case in 2011. When camps open, because the coaches lost all that offseason preparation time, they will not have the time to be "trying out free agents." Their main focus will be getting the team prepared to open the season. If an undrafted free agent does not show some "special" talent in the first week of camp he may have lost his opportunity to make a team."
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Ugh- That Study of Sports article on Hasselbeck
Just awful, on a lot of levels.
1. Hasselbeck is the best QB in team history. I love Dave Krieg, but it’s not really even close.
2. Why should Pete Carroll give Hasselbeck “a chance to win elsewhere?” Though deeply flawed, this team just went to the divisional playoffs behind Hasselbeck- Seattle needs a “bridge guy” to QB of future who can also keep team competitive in NFC West- Hasselbeck is on the very short list of guys who could do that. Besides, Beck is a free agent. It’s 100% up to him where he wants to play, and under what conditions.
3. There isn’t an NFL team that is Matt Hasselbeck-away from winning the Super Bowl. Titans? Ha. Vikings? Nope. Dolphins? Cardinals? Anybody? Fuck no. Matt Hasselbeck’s best chance for another playoff run is with the Seahawks.
4. I hate to be the one to point this out- But Charlie Whitehurst was at best mediocre and at worst terrible whenever he got onto the field last season. It’s a HUGE stretch to argue that he’s a better option for 2011 than Matt Hasselbeck or Carson Palmer. People say “but we’re paying him millions!” or “We spent a 3rd rounder to get him!” So? Successful organizations don’t let themselves get anchored to sunk costs.
5. “Maybe it’s time for a change” is a lazy non-argument. If Hasselbeck wants to stay, and Pete Carroll thinks he’s the best option at QB, why change just for change’s sake? That’s empty-headed.
6. Let me make this clear: If the Seahawks intentionally roll Charlie Whitehurst out as the starting QB, they are conceding the NFC West in 2011. Arizona will improve its situation at QB, the Rams have Bradford, and the Niners? Well, I’m still not too worried about the Niners. I don’t see Pete “Always Compete” Carroll pulling a Wisenhunt and unilaterally disarming at QB, do you? Whitehurst will get playing time in 2011, I’m sure- either due to injuries to Palmer/Hasselbeck, or (worst case) if the Seahawks fall out of the playoff race early- But handing him the ball kickoff weekend would border on football malpractice.
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 7:27 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Cholly really did have the chance to prove himself.
In the Giants game, he had 3 drop passes right of the bat and then was playing from behind. Our starting defensive line was Kentwan Balmer, Craig Terrill, and Junior Siavii. If anything, that game was a losing proposition. In the Rams game, he had training wheels on the play calling. Very rarely did he go deep, primarily using screens to try to open running lanes. I think we need to give him more time. Matt was awful at first. In fact, I cheered his benching in favor of Dilfer. I love Matt but his time has come.
Nothing screams "Always Compete"
like conceding the season to get a higher draft pick!
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually it is not conceding the season
It is a valid strategy to take one step back to take two steps forward. “Always Compete” is about taking developing for the future as well – not just the right now. You play to win with the players you have while having a long-term strategy for dominance.
Also, and this is important in Pete Carroll's philosophy
“Win Forever”
Always compete is more an idea that should be applied to practice and individual games and not necessarily an entire season. Yes, he wants to compete at all times, but the Win Forever idea pertains to not just winning one year. He wants to win for many, many years in a row. He wants to build a dynasty.
I went to the Win Forever workshop on Friday and one of the first things he brought up the fact that John Wooden went 16 years before winning his first championship at UCLA. He idolizes Wooden so I don’t think he’s as worried about winning one year as he is about putting something together that will keep winning for the next 10.
NOW, that being said, I DONT think he’s on the “let’s tank the season so we get a high pick next year” train. Not at all. But he’s also not on the “sacrifice the greater good to win this year” train either. So Sonic Boom is right in that regard I think. The big picture IS important to Pete.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
FIELDGULLS
by Danny Kelly on Jun 20, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
All of this is fine, but we're not going anywhere with Matt either.
He’s the Seahawks’ past. Charlie is the Seahawks’ current, as bad as he appears to be. But the key word is APPEARS. The team needs to know whether he’s the future or not.
That is seriously flawed reasoning
“Even though this guy hasn’t played very well in the opportunities he’s been given, and despite the fact that no one in their right mind thinks he’s the long-term answer at quarterback… aw hell, let’s roll him out there anyway and dismiss the clearly superior QB options available to us via various scenarios (Palmer, Hasselbeck, Kolb, Orton, etc)!”
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I never said anything about ignoring other QB possibilities.
I’m all in favour of bringing other QB’s into the fold. Palmer, particularly, as I think he’d be a very good bridge to the next franchise QB, and still has enough gas in the tank to lead the team for a few years.
Matt Hasselbeck is NOT that player. He’s nearly done. He’d have to play on a team with an excellent offensive line and running game to cushion his now-really-weak arm and scattershot decisionmaking.
You might think Charlie’s not a long-term answer, but the team thought that at one point, and needs to see if there’s any truth to it or not.
"Even though this guy hasn’t played very well in the opportunities he’s been given, and despite the fact that no one in their right mind thinks he’s the long-term answer at quarterback…"
You might be right about Charlie but I think the argument should be made (and is being made) that you are making a LOT of ASSUMPTIONS about his abilities after only two starts. Pretty much EVERY NFL quarterback struggles in their first few starts. Especially when you’re on a bad team.
I’m not saying that you’re necessarily wrong about CBJ, but I think what people want is to give him the opportunity to play. In Matt Hasselbeck’s first two starts he went 1-1, completed 50% of his passes (29/58), threw zero touchdowns and two interceptions. Whitehurst’s numbers are actually better than that. Apples and Oranges, but it’s what you’re basing your argument on.
You have a very strong aversion to starting Whitehurst and that’s fine, but just because not everyone has the same aversion doesn’t mean they have flawed reasoning. Hasselbeck, bless his heart, had a pretty crappy year last year and some people have an aversion to starting him again.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
FIELDGULLS
by Danny Kelly on Jun 20, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm firmly convinced that Whitehurst is pretty bad.
But I want him to get the opportunity to show it so the team can move forward. The Seahawks have presented mediocre-to-awful quarterbacks to this league for three or four years now, it needs to end pronto.
If the team has already concluded he isn't the long term answer
why would you sacrifice a season allowing him to “prove it” on the field? Cut bait, and go get Carson Palmer or bring back Hasselbeck.
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure the team is done with Charlie yet.
His contract is only for this year, so it doesn’t really kill them to keep him around. It would look pretty bad for a team with only one quarterback to cut that quarterback with one year left on his contract, especially when they spent a good price on him.
Having Charlie around doesn’t stop the team from acquiring Palmer. Having Hass around, however, does. It would be very difficult not to start Hass if he’s here.
Sorry
By “cut bait,” I didn’t LITERALLY mean we should cut Whitehurst. I’m happy to keep him in the mix- I just don’t want to see him get handed the starting job. I should have been clearer there,
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
The team will makes its own evaluation
If they roll Whitehurst out there then that is proof that they decided he was the best option available to them, and that Hass and Palmer were not. It’s great to have opinions, but we just don’t have enough information to know what the team has decided.
And for the record,
I’d prefer we go get Palmer than re-sign Hasselbeck. But let’s be blunt- What do you think our ceiling is wins-wise with Whitehurst at QB? 6? I think a healthy Hasselbeck gets you into more of the 8-9 win range, which is competitive for a playoff spot (and with a healthy Palmer, the 9-10 win range).
This is the bottom line: Do you really think that Schneider/Carroll believe Whitehurst gives team the best chance to maximize the number of wins next season? I highly doubt they have reached that conclusion, so it’ll be someone else- Most likely Carson Palmer or Matt Hasselbeck
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, I don't give a flying fuck if we win 6 or 7-8.
Neither one of those teams is making any noise in the playoffs. Build for the future. It’s all fine to “win now”, but winning now while ignoring the long-term needs of the team is suicide.
How is
putting the best quarterback you can find onto the field “ignoring long term needs?” You can put the best QB you can find (within reason) out there, and still address a bunch of other areas. FO has already clearly punted on “QB of the Future” until 2012, but they still need to try to win as many games as possible in 2011.
Yes, I’d rather win 8 games than 6. That’s just babytown frolic stuff.
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
It ignores long-term needs because it doesn't allow them to put a younger QB on the field.
How can we tell if Charlie is terrible without playing him, or any other younger QB? Hass is not the future.
In 2011
We aint gonna see a “younger QB” on the field- That’s already been decided, frankly… and Whitehurst is NOT a “young QB,” and he isn’t the long-term answer either.
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Whitehurst is such an unknown that it's hard to guess a win-loss in 2011.
Turnovers are the key and it’s hard to guess who might be better in that regard. Hass was a turnover machine during parts of the year but there were times when he took care of the ball. It’s not a coincidence that in the games when Hass didn’t try to do too much, the Hawks had success. You’d hope he can get it together there but he’s a 13 year veteran that still makes rookie mistakes. He had 13 turnovers over a 4-game period late in the year when we needed to win games. In other words:
When Hass wasn’t imploding, the Hawks managed some success. Which begs the question, couldn’t another QB, playing even-keeled and taking care of the ball, give the Hawks a better chance to win?
I realize that this is ALL up to opinion and I’m not saying that mine is right and people who want Hass back are wrong, but I am not convinced that Hass gives the Seahawks a BETTER chance to win over Charlie. Charlie could convince me otherwise if he was given a few starts and turned the ball over a lot, but from a statistical and effectiveness point of view, Hasselbeck was absolute bottom of the barrel most of the season last year. He started and won 6 games during the regular season. This is a known commodity that doesn’t impress me.
As always, I would love to see him prove me wrong and have a career renaissance, but the odds are against a 36 year old quarterback with 3 straight statistically terrible years in a row suddenly bouncing back to effectiveness.
Anyway, this is something that we could argue about all day and no one would be smarter, but I just hope it’s not down to Matt and Charlie. I hope to see Carson get a chance here.
Proactive-like-Nonstop
FIELDGULLS
by Danny Kelly on Jun 20, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
We both want Carson Palmer in a Seahawks uniform. It just makes TOO MUCH sense. Hopefully Mike Brown isn’t so stupid and stubborn that he passes up a chance to get some pieces for his OWN rebuild in Cincy.
Honestly, I don’t think we’ll really get to see what Whitehurst has “got” unless Palmer/Hasselbeck gets injured or the team falls hopelessly out of the playoff race by midseason.
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
You also have to consider in further decline for Hasselbeck though.
He’s not getting any younger and he’s only going to get worse. The question is whether how much better, if at all, that Hasselbeck is over any QB (excluding Palmer, who is obviously better) that we could theoretically start next year when you calculate in further decline? Is he better than Whitehurst? Leinart? Young? Or is he finally at a point where he’s not starter material anymore.
by Coach Owens on Jun 20, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't expect him to revert to 2007
but he DID just end the season with two very good performances- I’m not expecting a Pro Bowl season from him, but I think it’s an exaggeration to say he has “nothing left.” I’d venture a guess that the Saints think he has some gas left in the tank.
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Apologies
my brain mapped the “nothing left” thing onto your comment, which isn’t what you said exactly. My bad.
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Everything went right for the NO game though.
Which makes me wonder how much of his stats were actually Hasselbeck. The line mostly gave him enough time to make his throws and the Seahawks receivers torched the Saints’ secondary. That’s the problem with Hasselbeck now. Things have to be perfect for him to do well. When the line’s off and he has pressure in his face, he can no longer escape and thus either sacks himself or heaves up a desperation pass. In his heyday, he was fantastic at actually being able to get away from pressure but these days it appears that his vision, as well as his legs, under pressure have almost completely disappeared. His arm strength is shot and his decision making isn’t what it was either (either that, or he simply doesn’t realize that he can’t make the throws he used to). In all honesty, there’s a good chance that he could very well wind up as one of the worst starters in the league.
by Coach Owens on Jun 20, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
It makes sense
to put more weight on Hasselbeck’s overall (bad) performance the last 3 years than on two good playoff games- Which is why I’d like to see us go out and get Carson Palmer.
I’ll admit the idea of going into the season with Whitehurst as the starter automatically fills me with dread and despair- To me, EVERYTHING about the guy (including his on-the-field performance) SCREAMS “I am not a legitimate NFL quarterback.” I’d love to be proven wrong, of course.
Hasselbeck? He’s flawed, but I know what I’m getting, and there’s still potential for the upside to emerge.
Palmer? Shit, if that happens, I’ll be ecstatic. I’ll probably go out and buy the dude’s jersey.
Whitehurst? I’ll still cheer just as hard, but my expectations for 2011 will plummet through the floor.
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd like to see 4 QBs go into camp:
Palmer, CW, Leinert and a developmental guy.
The thought of watching another Seahawk game with Hasselbeck starting almost makes me ill. Tired of it. I would be far more excited about CW starting – at least he can throw the ball down the field.
But I don’t disagree with most of the arguments here – it shouldn’t be a question of CW or Hasselbeck. There are other options, and I seriously doubt PC/JS plan on entering the season with CW the starting QB. He is a capable back-up, and fine in that capacity, but shouldn’t be the starting QB over the course of a season (IMHO).
To me, Leinert is a wild card, one that should come cheap. If Palmer gets traded to Seattle, I’d love to see Leinert compete with CW for the number 2 spot – and win.
It's interesting
The idea of watching us give the ball to Whitehurst kickoff weekend almost makes ME ill. Diff’rent Strokes for Diff’rent Folks, etc.
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
If That Makes You Ill, Then
Try playing as Whitehurst in any of the Madden games. That’s harder than hell to do…
Win Forever: Live, Work and Play Like a Champion
Comes down to this
Is a declining Hasselbeck going to be a better quarterback in 2011 than Charlie Whitehurst? I say, with a lot of confidence- Yup! Others disagree, but that’s how I see it.
And that’s the argument- It shouldn’t be about “we need to see what we have in Whitehurst,” or, for fuck’s sake “let’s suck in 2011 to try to get Andrew Luck.” It’s about winning the games in front of you on the schedule THIS SEASON… and I’d say based on that metric it’s
Palmer > Hasselbeck > Whitehurst
by Johnny Peel (DKSB) on Jun 20, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree 99.3%
I have written this post multiple times but deleted it because my argument was nowhere as cogent as what you have written above.
Only point I would disagree with is that Hasselbeck to the Vikings could put them in an area where defense and running game could give them an outside chance to get to the Superbowl.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
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