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NFL Lockout: Proposed CBA Would Make 4-Year Veterans Unrestricted Free Agents in 2011

ATLANTA GA - JANUARY 15:  James Jones #89 of the Green Bay Packers scores a 20-yard touchdown reception in the second quarter against Atari Bigby #20 of the Atlanta Falcons during their 2011 NFC divisional playoff game at Georgia Dome on January 15 2011 in Atlanta Georgia.  (Photo by Streeter Lecka/Getty Images)

Yesterday, rumors spread that Roger Goodell was in Chicago to pitch a new CBA proposal to the NFL ownership group. One of the stipulations of this new CBA would be that restricted free agents with 4+ years of service would become unrestricted free agents. This is pretty big news because this list of RFAs is a long one (over 100 players likely). 

Brian McIntyre of Mac's Football Blog and Football Outsiders provided a very in-depth list of these possibly soon-to-be unrestricted free-agents so I thought I'd compile what I think should be the Seahawks' short list in free-agency. It's up in the air as to how much of a splash the Hawks will make in free agency this offseason once the lockout lifts, but here are a few higher-profile players that could be targeted. Note that these players have been mentioned in reference to free agency before, but there had been the constant caveat that these are guys that could still end up as restricted free agents and thus most likely be ignored. If these rumors are proven true, these are all fourth+ year players that will be unrestricted and therefore much more likely to be pursued and realistic to sign.

QB:

Matt Moore (Carolina)
Drew Stanton (Detroit)
Matt Leinart (Houston)
Tyler Thigpen (Miami)

Matt Moore and Drew Stanton have been mentioned a time or two with regard to the Seahawks but by and large have gone under the radar. If they're both unrestricted the pool of free-agent QBs just got a little bit more talented. Both players are young and inexperienced but have shown flashes when given the chance. Same goes, really, for Tyler Thigpen, though his inability to supplant Chad Henne in Miami doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me. We all know about Leinart by now so I don't need to re-hash the story again here.

RB/FB:

John Kuhn (Green Bay)
Michael Bush (Oakland)

If John Kuhn and Michael Bush both become unrestricted, you really have to take a look at both of them. Kuhn has a history with John Schneider and is a lunch-pail, versatile guy that you could plug in as a running back on short yardage situations and as a fullback in any situation. Michael Bush is a talented, big running back that could serve as a fullback when needed as well. He's got a history with Tom Cable that could come into play. Because rumors suggest that Darrell Bevell was enamored with Mark Ingram pre-draft, it stands to reason that perhaps the Seahawks will want to upgrade even more at the running back position. Kuhn and Bush would be the 'new URFA' players that jump off the page at me, but we'll see what happens there. 

WR:

James Jones (Green Bay)
Jacoby Jones (Houston)
Sidney Rice (Minnesota)
Malcolm Floyd (San Diego)

James Jones has been linked to the Seahawks by several sources and on paper it does make sense. He's got a history with Seahawks' GM John Schneider via Green Bay and is a physical, explosive wide receiver. I certainly wouldn't be surprised or necessarily disappointed to see him signed for 2011. Sidney Rice would undoubtedly be the top target if he becomes unrestricted but I'm not sure the Hawks would take a chance on the injury prone wide receiver. They did, however, pursue Vincent Jackson and Brandon Marshall in the last year so it again stands to reason that they're still searching for that #1 receiver to bolster their offense. Malcolm Floyd is a long, speedy outside threat that could be on the Hawks radar but to me is a similar player to Kris Durham so might be overlooked. 

Star-divide

TE:

Zach Miller (Oakland)
Daniel Fells (St. Louis)

If Zach Miller becomes unrestricted, the Tom Cable connection will be immediately brought up. Because Cable coached Miller last year and because he's young, tough and talented, the Hawks might take a look. This would only happen if you assume that the Hawks don't like what they get from John Carlson, who has struggled in the pass game the previous two years and is on his contract year. Carlson becomes a trade candidate this season simply because of those reasons, so a Zach Miller signing could precede that option. 

Daniel Fells is a big tight end that I could see featured prominently at the H-back position. He's more suited to that spot, it would seem, than either John Carlson or Cameron MorrahI brought that up recently in another post, and Fells is a player that I will keep an eye on once the lockout is lifted.

OL:

Deuce Lutui (Arizona)
Daryn Colledge (Green Bay)
Samson Satele (Oakland)
Davin Joseph (Tampa Bay)

Samson Satele is a former 2nd round pick by Miami in 2007 that has had a measure of success in the NFL. He's capable enough to start on a good amount of NFL teams and because of his history with Tom Cable and the Seahawks' lack of any depth at the center position, I could see Satele coming into the fray. If this were the case, he could compete with Max Unger to start. The other thing to note is that if Robert Gallery were signed (as a lot of people expect), you'd pick up two guys that are used to playing next to each other, and statistically played very well last season. This could come in handy considering the lack of experience elsewhere along the line. 

Deuce Lutui is an effective guard for the Cardinals and if Robert Gallery is not what you want to go for at left guard, he could be an option. Brock Huard recently linked Lutui to the Seahawks and though it's probable he was just throwing out names, he will be sought after. 

Davin Joseph is maybe the most attractive offensive line target and would finalize what's shaping up to be a very solid line for the Seahawks. He'd play left guard effectively, he's still youngish at 28, talented, and would probably be well-suited to a power zone blocking scheme that the Hawks plan to run. 

DL:

Alan Branch (Arizona)
Charles Johnson (Carolina)
Ray Edwards (Minnesota)
Mathias Kiwanuka (NYG)
Brandon Mebane (Seattle)

I want each and every one of these players to be signed. I'm joking, but seriously. Alan Branch is a mountain of a man that could conceivably play the 1-tech or the 5-tech as a backup or even challenge for the starting role. Charles Johnson is an elite pass rusher and though he doesn't fit the mold of the LEO I think Carroll is looking for (he's a little bigger than what we have seen the Hawks using there), in this case you'd hope his talent trumps those stipulations. Ray Edwards is a similar player and I'd use a similar argument. Mathias Kiwanuka is actually more the size for LEO that Carroll is looking for so he could come into play if the Hawks want to challenge or replace Chris Clemons. 

You all know about Mebane.

LB:

Paul Posluszny (Buffalo)
James Anderson (Carolina)
Stephen Tulloch (Tennessee)
Will Herring (Seattle)

Posluszny, Anderson and Tulloch are all guys that I've mentioned in my free agency posts and if they are indeed unrestricted under the new CBA they could become attractive targets. Will Herring has been a valuable role-player for the Seahawks for the last few seasons and came up big several times in 2010. He has stated that he wants to start somewhere so it remains to be seen if  he'll want to re-sign with the Hawks - a team that is doubtful to start him at weakside linebacker. 

CB:

Johnathan Joseph (Cincinnati)
Antonio Cromartie (NY Jets)

Boom. The two cornerbacks that I would really like to see the Hawks sign. There's not much to say about these two guys other than they're both very good and now likely to become unrestricted free agents. Johnathan Joseph is probably the more attractive target; he's as close to a shut-down cornerback you're going to find on the market outside of Nnamdi Asomugha. If I were the Hawks I'd make a play for him but because he'll command a big payday, I just don't see it as likely.

S:

Eric Weddle (San Diego)
Dashon Goldson (San Francisco)

Weddle is a very good, and very underrated safety. He could be that centerfield deep safety player that the Seahawks are looking for. Kam Chancellor and Mark LeGree are virtual unknowns and it's up in the air as to whether Lawyer Milloy will re-sign or not. If the Hawks are looking for a very good veteran player for that role, Weddle would probably be the number one option. 

Goldson is another young, talented safety that could play the role I just described. He called the plays for the 49ers defense last season, is still young at only 26, has range and doesn't let anything get behind him. He's a former Husky with ties to Roy Lewis and Isaiah Stanback. He could be an attractive target and if he has a good relationship with former 49er and now current Seahawks' president Scott McLoughlin, Seattle could be a natural fit for him.

I touched on it a little yesterday, but with this proposed CBA, there will likely be a salary cap floor at around 90% or so. Perhaps even higher, depending on how you look at it. If this is the case, the Seahawks may be forced to spend money in free agency, as their cap hit right now sits at around $81.1 million. If the cap floor is $110 million to $120 million, they will have some options in free agency to the tune of $30-$40 million. I won't try to completely explain the intricacies of this CBA and even how the salary cap is figured, but Andrew Brandt of the National Football Post had a great piece today explaining this proposed "near 100% salary cap" stipulation. Brandt said:

I have always felt that - for the Players - this is the most important issue of all. Having managed an NFL Salary Cap for nine years, I am well aware that a Cap can be molded and massaged to show whatever a team wants to show. Cap minimums can be reached using various mechanisms that eat up a team's Cap while providing an excuse to agents and players not to spend.

Cash is king to Players. In March, the Owners offered a 90% cash minimum, which I thought was the most meaningful part of their offer. They have reportedly raised that offer to 95% or even higher. Were I advising Players, I would try to push that Cash minimum as close to 100% as possible.

I would think this potential concession may be receiving the most resistance among ownership.

This would reward teams with solid front offices and savvy "pay as you go" Cap management. With the Packers, I always tried to match our cash spending with our Cap, paying as we went rather than racking up potentially large future "dead money". That style of management will be rewarded with the proposed new system.

Take what you will from that, but it seems that under this new CBA the Seahawks would have some money to spend.

Any guys on this list, or Brian McIntyre's list that you want to see in a Seahawks' uniform? Let me know below.

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hell - fix the secondary

Those types of talents don’t come along very often. Pick-up both Johnathan Joseph and Nnamdi Asomugha which will instantly make the entire defense better by a tremendous factor. Imagine the bandit package on that. Holy cow.

by Sonic Boom on Jun 22, 2011 11:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Johnathan Joseph is the guy

He’s slightly younger than Asomugha, though CBs usually age gracefully, and should be the #1 target, as Nnamdi will command ungodly amounts of money (simply not worth it). Joseph is a perfect fit to play man coverage for us.

Resigning Mebane, as well as Herring, Willis and Spencer (who I would much rather have back then a FA center) should also help fill some of the cash gap and immediately address needs with good players who know the system.

There is no one in this FA QB class I want. If we take on anyone, it should be a high-upside player, regardless of risk. Yes that includes Vince Young. I’d rather see us try out Vince Young and fail then spend future picks on Carson Palmer. And don’t get me wrong, I really like Carson Palmer as a QB, and it would be exciting to see him in Seahawks uniform, but giving up two picks in the next draft for him would simply be more than we can afford right now, for a player who will not be a part of our long-term future. Hoarding picks is absolutely key to rebuilding, and our FO has generally done so, the only noticeable pick they’ve given up so far being the 3rd this year, the rest is all wheeling and dealing.

Anyway…

If there’s cash left after the resignings, hmmm… Jacob Ford (similar to Kiwanuka in build, but younger and with better stats) and Alan Branch might be the most interesting rotational talent for our D-line, Kiwanuka never did enough with the Giants to really convince me. Davin Joseph had a down year but is a top talent, preferable to Gallery in many ways. Eric Weddle is criminally underrated and might be a steal in this class. Sidney Rice would be the absolute money-maker grab, especially considering how young he is, but he’s also kind of a flash in the pan considering he’s had all of one good season. If another team wants to throw the bank at him they’re welcome to it, but if every team in the league has injury doubts he might be had for a reasonable price.

So, my take is, in order of priority:
DT Brandon Mebane, CB Johnathan Joseph, C Chris Spencer, OG Davin Joseph, S Eric Weddle, DE Jacob Ford, OT Ray Willis, DT Alan Branch, OG Robert Gallery, QB Vince Young

WR depends way too much on situation and price for me to say. Let’s not break the bank and pay a #2 guy like Floyd #1 money, it’s just not a good idea. James Jones might be had for the right price.

Safety is a tough position, hard to gage, I wouldn’t mind getting someone like Weddle, but if instead they target Goldson or get back Babineaux or something else, I don’t mind.

The LBs in this group are either too good to be brought in as backups or no more interesting than who we have, Herring excepted.

QB I’m tepid about. I’m not in the hate or love Young group. People seem to be pretty divided about him, as evinced by the fanpost. He has always come across as more of a headcase than a talent problem. That doesn’t mean he’s fixable, but it’s worth trying if the price is right, i.e. nothing. Giving up any draft pick for him would be unacceptable.

We’ve discussed UDFA enough too. I think it’s the perfect spot to land a FB, and would love love love us landing Matangi Tonga. Kris O’Down, Mark Herzlich and Terrence Toliver are other UDFAs I dig that I think would have a real shot of making an impact on our roster.

I don’t know if I’m being realistic about how much we can afford, you can freely scratch Sidney Rice of the list for instance, but my angle here should be obvious: go for the young FAs over age, and don’t chase down the top dollar talent unless it’s worth it position/need-wise, like the two Josephses.

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 22, 2011 11:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Yes on Jonathan Joseph

Just dump Tru’s contract and it’s affordable.

Davin Joseph would most likely be a better singing than Gallery at similar cost.

And if we could sign Mebane and Ray Edwards that would shore up almost all our holes with the exception of QB.

This is shaping out to be a season where a shrewd GM picking the right parts can pretty much assemble a contender no matter how bad the team.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Jun 22, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

If we pick up Joseph

I’d much rather see him play across from Tru than Jennings…Yeah, Tru’s had a couple rough years, but he’s still head and shoulders (literally) better than Jennings.

by Highwatermark on Jun 22, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed Both Are Not The Corners Desired.

I can give props to Tru for past stuff, but he’s the third fastest trufant in the family right now….
Jennings is too small and reactive. Can’t change the direction of receivers and really can’t cover on an island.

Win Forever: Live, Work and Play Like a Champion

by JRock419 on Jun 22, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Possibly true

But 2 things to consider – 1) Tru played pretty well at the beginning of last season, until injuries added up and his play dropped off pretty steeply. Second, assuming we won’t be able to sign 2 FA starters at CB, who would you rather have, Tru or Jennings?
Maybe Thurmond steps up enough to supplant one of them? Tru and Jennings would both probably benefit from less play time and less time against #1 and #2 receivers…

by Highwatermark on Jun 22, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, is he an FA this year?

If so, then that might change the equation…I was thinking he was still under contract.

by Highwatermark on Jun 22, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Jennings is an FA

Then keeping Tru becomes even more important. Unless we have to clear cap space, dumping Tru makes no sense unless there are 3 or 4 other guys on the team better than him. I just don’t see that.

by Highwatermark on Jun 22, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

IMHO

if we sign a starting CB, we can easily let Trufant go along with Jennings; but I believe in Brandon Browner, and I think Thurmond’s ready to be a third CB.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jun 22, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jennings is a FA...

…pretty sure on that, at least.

Earl Thomas + Mark Legree = Earl Gree. A new flavor of safety coming to you on Sunday's this Fall. They're gonna wake you up!

by Bobby Cink on Jun 22, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only way he's gettin franchised

is if he buys a McDonalds.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Jun 23, 2011 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jennings is down the road no matter what.

start W3, and give cock sure, ET and Legree time.

let the young guys play. I want to see some bandit time.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Jun 23, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought the price for Palmer was a pick this year and a conditional pick the year after.

If that’s the case, I don’t know how the Seahawks don’t jump all over it. He’s a proven starter who could make this team playoff-worthy instantly and would be a perfect fit for three years or so until he retires and a younger, developmental guy takes his spot.

Grabbing Palmer means no need to reach on a QB this year, or even the next. One falls to you? Great. Otherwise, focus on rebuilding this defence. If having him at hand means not reaching on a Whitehurst again, I’d say he’s worth a couple of middle/lower picks.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you’ve got up there. I supposed I’m higher on Young than you are, but no biggie.

by djafrot on Jun 22, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

The unconfirmed, based on one site with one single source from a team who has a vested interested in these kind of rumors...

…was indeed a conditional 3rd and a 5th. As in a 2011 5th and a conditional 2012 3rd. Even if the rumor has any meat to it, and considering it was never repeated anywhere else I see no reason to assume it does, you can’t just shove that over one year, as a 2012 5th and 2013 3rd would be significantly less valuable than that. So, unless one of our 5ths is destined for the Bungles to go along with a conditional pick (which I guess would be ok), that deal’s out of the water.

Would I mind Palmer? Mwah. Not really. I certainly like the player. But investing any significant value in old players while rebuilding tends to be a bad idea. Imagine we put some picks in Palmer, and he leads us to mediocrity for the coming 4-5 years. Where does that get us?

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 22, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed. We can get Vince Young for NO draft picks.

And for all those who think he is a head case, I would like to remind you that both Pete and John are OBVIOUSLY willing to take on projects. After all they wanted to sign Vincent Jackson and Brandon Marshall, for goodness sake (and both of them make Young look like a boy scout by comparison)!!!!!!!!!!!

by Chief Knockahomer on Jun 22, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still dont know if thats true

VY is still under contract to the Titans. They might try and trade him even if they get little in return so they’re not liable for his contract if he were to clear waivers. Teams might hold off thinking he would be released but if a team really wanted him a trade guarantees they get him instead of trying to woo him as a free agent.

by CMoney87 on Jun 22, 2011 6:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Its two sources

Rob Staton reached a 2nd source which confirmed the information.

by Kip Earlywine on Jun 23, 2011 3:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Vasilli is saying that Rob is the only source of the information that we have

and that our lack of independent access to Rob’s anonymous sources means that we’d have to trust Rob’s word alone.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jun 23, 2011 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pretty much

And I’m fine with that for the most part, I’ve been reading the draft blog for a while and Staton has been proven right before. But my standard is I don’t take rumors seriously at all, and the only way I’ll give them notice is if multiple trustworthy sources all indicate the same thing. Right now we only have one trustworthy source, Staton, as a source for the rumor. That’s why I’m not comfortable with it being bandied around as fact here on Field Gulls.

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 23, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rob is very careful with posting rumors

He actually knew about the Palmer stuff for almost two full months before breaking it. He waited to get confirmation from a second source first.

Sure, its a rumor, and things change. I understand the level of discomfort. I was talking with Rob and Brandon behind the scenes when they were talking about publishing it, and I actually told them not to. But when I heard about the 2nd source from Rob, that changed things for me.

by Kip Earlywine on Jun 24, 2011 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was against a Palmer trade at first

Because I assumed he’d cost a hefty draft package including at least one 2nd rounder.

But a 3rd and a 5th is very close to what the team paid for Charlie Whitehurst, and in terms of value to the team, Palmer would probably represent much, much, much more value than a typical 3rd and 5th round pick combined, even if he only plays for 2-3 years.

by Kip Earlywine on Jun 23, 2011 3:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Another thing

Teams can’t really be constructed as all young prospects or all gritty veterans. There needs to be both. Who are the leaders on this team? Hasselbeck and Milloy, both NFL Methuselah’s who have very short futures with the Seahawks, if any at all. Palmer could bring that leadership, that centerpiece status for the next 2-4 years, something Hasselbeck cannot offer.

As good as Okung and Thomas are, they are lead by example types, not Ray Lewis leader types. We have a lot of young guys and not many leaders, and the few leaders we have are not long for the roster.

Just another thing to consider. If Seattle doesn’t deal for Palmer, they almost have to bring Hasselbeck back, and I don’t think any of us want to see that happen.

by Kip Earlywine on Jun 23, 2011 3:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought I read that as Hasselbeck is a metamucil.

Not sure which is more apt.

Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Jun 23, 2011 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

btw

No one going to give me crap for excluding Pistol?

Thing on Pistol is, he’s not a good fit for what we want to do system-wise, while Joseph is a better player and a better fit. Nor would Wilson be satisfied with playing a backup role for us. It is what it is.

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 22, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dont think Thigpen should be knocked

for not supplanting Henne. Henne was deemed the QBotF by the Dolphins the moment he was drafted, he has been given priority regardless who else was on the roster. I think Thigpen at this point is at the level of a decent starting NFL QB with the potential to be a good-great one. I’d have far more confidence in him than CW starting for the Hawks week one.

by CMoney87 on Jun 22, 2011 12:12 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Why?

The only time Thigpen ran an offense even halfway well was with the 2008 Chiefs, where he got some fairly mediocre numbers out of a slashed-down simplified playbook, running the Pistol offense almost exclusively. I don’t see us switching to the Pistol fulltime to accommodate a FA QB, whereas Whitehurst was selected because of his fit with the system.

We’re not exactly talking scheme-transcendent talent here.

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 22, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

he has 10 times the starting exp as CW

and has looked better in just about every start he’s had. He has a decent arm and accuracy, is elusive in the pocket and a threat to run. His teammates believe in him and many publicly pulled for him to start even after the Chiefs aquired Cassel, he’s a leader. His numbers for the Chiefs were more than just mediocre, I don’t have real stats on hand but he was the best fantasy QB multiple times that year. Any time he has been given a chance he has exceeded all expectations and based on the few performances I’ve seen has looked like a much more capable and poised QB than Whitehurst. The scouting report on Thigpen reads almost the same as Charlie and I’d even say the attributes that make CW a fit for the system apply more so to Thigpen. So, why not?

by CMoney87 on Jun 22, 2011 7:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Whitehurst would probably have been a bit more successful in his two starts,

If he had Dwayne Bowe to throw to and Jamaal Charles in the backfield.

by bewrong on Jun 22, 2011 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

We are talking 2008 here

Dwayne Bowe had a decent year with 1000+ yds and 7 TDs but was not the dominant player he was last year and Jamaal was a rookie with all of 357 yds. He had Gonzo on that team, he was in fact the most vocal about the fact that Thigpen deserved to be the starter, which probably helped. I’m not saying we should pick him up and make him the starter but I’m sure he’ll want to sign somewhere he at least has that opportunity, thinking we could sign him as a third stringer is likely a fantasy. The statement I made that was questioned seemed to be that I thought he would beat Charlie out if we brought him to camp which I fully believe to be true. My reasoning for that was noted in my first comment.

by CMoney87 on Jun 22, 2011 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

They were in fact no better than mediocre

In 2008, he had a 54.8 completion percentage , 6.2 Y/A and a 3:2 TD/INT split. Yes, he saved some fantasy seasons, but let’s not get confused and base our real-life decisions on fantasy football. Those numbers aren’t good, at all, especially considering he was throwing to a Hall of Fame TE and a great sophomore RB.

The biggest problem with Thigpen doesn’t show up in the stats. The Chiefs offense in 2008 had to be enormously limited, playing almost only spread/Pistol offense. I don’t think PC is willing to do that, and the reason he’s not is because while the stats may be fine, the results are not. The limited amount of air offense they got (plus the bad performance from the RBs), means they won all of one game with Thigpen.

Note I’m not saying Thigpen is bad, but there are plenty of reasons to dismiss him, and very few reasons to think he’s better than Whitehurst. Whitehurst was never put into a simplified spread offense to see what he could do with it, with that level of talent around it, you better believe he’d do better than Thigpen. Do they basically project the same as types of QBs? Sorta. So if we bring in Thigpen, we essentially have two Whitehursts duking it out for starting. The advantage is we’ll indeed get the best starter. The disadvantage is neither has much upside.

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 23, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Im not saying he is all world

just that dismissing him because he hasn’t beat out Henne isn’t fair because the Dolphins were determined to have Chad take the reins and never gave Thigpen a chance to earn that spot. I also don’t think he’s gonna take a lowball contract in a situation where he knows he’d be riding the pine so looking at bringing him in as a 3rd stringer is a fantasy. Jamaal was also not a factor in his rookie season, he only started 2 games, Tyler didn’t have any pro bowl types on that offense outside of Gonzalez. The only situation I see likely where we get Thigpen is if they don’t sign Hass or any other veteran starter and bring him in to compete with Charlie for the starting gig and the loser is the backup.

by CMoney87 on Jun 23, 2011 11:31 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Ike Taylor is a FA too I read. Maybe a better scheme fit for PC

since he’s a physical corner and not so much a shutdown corner.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Jun 22, 2011 12:25 PM PDT reply actions  

Ike is terrible, and over-rated due to the supporting cast around him.

He would be an expensive mistake.

Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Jun 22, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed System Is Ike's Strength

The only reason he would succeed is because of that, not really athletic ability.

Win Forever: Live, Work and Play Like a Champion

by JRock419 on Jun 22, 2011 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

The question about all these FAs that runs through my mind...

…is how attractive is Seattle?

I would think great: between the facilities, the coach, the fans, the city – but that’s just me. Most of the league thinks Seattle plays in the minors – if they think of Seattle at all.

Do we think PC/JS have lifted the credibility of the franchise to the level that would be attractive to players who want to be part of a SB-bound team?

by Hawksince77 on Jun 22, 2011 1:15 PM PDT reply actions  

I would hope that playing in the playoffs 6 out of the last 8 seasons would establish us as a premiere destination.

Other than that scardy-cat bitch Kris Deilman, the Seahawks seemingly have had little trouble enticing free agents…what has kept us from handing out huge contracts to available players over the years has been careful frugality by the front office, as well as giving big contracts to the likes of Walter Jones, Shaun Alexander, Matt Hasselbeck, Lofa Tatupu and Marcus Trufant.

I think most players sign with the teams that want them the most, and I trust Pete Carroll to do a swell job of selling players on the Seahawks.

by J.L. White on Jun 22, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

PC could recruit the hell out of high school kids.

Why not the pros?

Earl Thomas + Mark Legree = Earl Gree. A new flavor of safety coming to you on Sunday's this Fall. They're gonna wake you up!

by Bobby Cink on Jun 22, 2011 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

The CBA sticking point is the minimum team payroll

The salary cap is not the problem but rather the requirement that teams must spend at least 90% of the cap on player payroll. This prevents teams that are losing money from doing the one thing they must do, cut payroll costs. Seattle, was significantly under the cap last year after dumping alot of salary. We would be forced to spend on FA’s this year even if we don’t like the choices. Don’t count your FA chickens just yet. i will be surprised if the owners sign off on a minimum payroll of 90% of the cap.

by Patches Pal on Jun 22, 2011 2:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh you again.

So which teams are losing money, because I can’t keep track?

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Jun 23, 2011 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can someone explain "power zone blocking" to me?

Is it a ZBS with players big enough to play in a Power Blocking attack? I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, I don’t believe in “finesse” blocking schemes. Give me a line of giant maulers any day. How has our rushing attack been since adopting Knapp’s ZBS?

by Brendan O'Leary on Jun 22, 2011 2:11 PM PDT reply actions  

ZBS isn't a finesse scheme

it just emphasizes athleticism over size. Maulers, yes—but give me maulers who are quick enough to hit their targets.

by The Ancient Mariner on Jun 22, 2011 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Will the final 8 free agency restrictions be back in the new CBA?

I haven’t seen anything about this, but I feel like this rule, more than anything, might really hurt the hawks in an offseason where they might otherwise make a lot of moves. Am i right with this thinking?

by Dialectic on Jun 22, 2011 2:22 PM PDT reply actions  

That was only a restriciton put in place for the "cap-less" 2010 season only.

That, and making 4-year players RFAs, was done to prevent a crazy spending spree by certain teams after the owners decided to back out of the old CBA.

by J.L. White on Jun 22, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's the list I THINK we'll try for:

Bush, Satele, and Gallery (because of the Cable connection).

Get Mebane and Herring back.

Dump Trufant (for a 2012 4th round pick if we can – otherwise give him his outright walking papers) and sign J. Joseph.

Do not resign Milloy but instead sign D. Goldson.

Go after Vince Young, letting Hass walk.

If we do all of these things…LOOK OUT NFL (not just NFC West, but look out ENTIRE NFL).

by Chief Knockahomer on Jun 22, 2011 2:36 PM PDT reply actions  

What can i say, i like to be consistent.

On the other hand, a blanket statement like “he sucks” doesn’t exactly provide anything to the discussion, does it? Typically that’s reserved for heat-of-the-moment comments within game threads, but discouraged in other threads.

That said, allow me try to do something to live up to the 1st part of my name.

You contend that Trufant sucks. Would you not agree that in 2010, Trufant was typically aligned against the opposing team’s #1 receiver? And would you also agree that overall, the Seahawks’ pass defense in 2010 was rather sub-standard?

Would it shock you then that while our overall pass defense in 2010 was ranked 29th (along with our overall defense) that our defense against #1 receivers was actually 14th in the league? At the same time, our defense of #2 receivers (Jennings) was ranked #32 in the league. Our defense against #3+ receivers was ranked #28, and our defense against running backs was #29th.

This would suggest that Trufant does not “suck,” but rather that he is around league average for a #1 CB. You could then argue that his salary is disproportionate to his on-field production, that he should be restructured or cut for financial reasons. Then again, it appears we will have cap room to play with, so unless you find two demonstratively better CBs for around the same price, you’d just be creating a new hole on a team already full of them.

by SmartAssCoug on Jun 24, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Look to your left. Look to your right. NONE of the comments on this website are exactly poised to solve world hunger.

That said…sarcasm (as in your first post to me) adds even less to the discussion. Your second post, on the other hand, is worthy of an intelligent retort, and did, indeed, live up to the first part of your “handle.”

Allow me to elaborate on “he sucks.” What I meant was, as a #1 corner, covering #1 receivers on an island (a la D. Revis), he has shown time and again that he cannot cut it, despite your stat (which, by the way, sounds baseballish…with runners in scoring position, on Tuesdays, on natural grass, at night, So-and-So is ranked 14th in the league in total accurate throws to first). Are you saying that he alone, covered the #1 receiver all the time? Sadly, no. We double-teamed the #1 receiving threat a lot last year. I would HOPE that our defense against the #1 threat would be better. This is not all Tru’s doing. Yes, (gulp), even Kelly Jennings helped out once in awhile, as did Lofa, Milloy, Thomas, et. al.

More likely, your stat means that two of our guys were, on average, as good as their best receiver. In double-teaming, this left no one to cover the 2nd and 3rd receivers…hence our dead last ranking and our 3rd-to-last rankings there.

I like your idea of restructuring his salary and demoting him to 2nd corner, however…because, as you put it, this team has more holes than a slab of swiss cheese. Tru, however, makes a shit-load of money, so finding a corner who is better and currently makes less would be like shooting fish in a barrel (if I was privy to what every corner currently makes…which I am not).

Please post more like the one immediately above. I don’t mind being disagreed-with, or even wrong… I only mind being “talked” to like a child (a la BrianL).

by Chief Knockahomer on Jun 24, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure anyone wants to trade a 4th rounder for a an expensive, injury-prone 30-year-old cornerback.

I’m willing to believe that Trufant will have a bounce-back season this year, but I’m not (nor are the Seahawks) wagering the value of a 4th round pick on that hope.

If Tru changes teams this year, it’ll be because the Seahawks cut him.

by J.L. White on Jun 22, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

The age and injury-proneness is only part of the problem

It’s the contract that’s the icing on the cake. No one will gift us anything to take that contract off our hands.

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 22, 2011 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed, which I why I SAID let him go if we get no suckers/takers.

However, you NEVER, EVER, EVER let someone go who is still under contract (as is Trufant) without trying to get SOMETHING, ANYTHING for him. I guarantee you we tried to trade Housh, but nobody was buying the shit we were shoveling. We DID manage to find a sucker for Branch, though, and I guarantee you if we hadn’t Pete and John would have just given the dude his unconditional walking papers.

by Chief Knockahomer on Jun 23, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure many consider the Pats the sucker in that deal

W/ Seattle in 2010
4G : 13 rec. 112 yards 8.6YPC 1 TD

W/ NE in 2010
11G : 48 rec. 706 yards 14.7YPC 5 TDs

by SmartAssCoug on Jun 23, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

6.1 YPC less?

That’s a pretty horrific indictment of our quarterbacks.

by djafrot on Jun 23, 2011 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'd say a combination of system and QBs

From ‘06-’08 his YPC was pretty consistent at ~13.7 each year. Dropped to 9.7 in 2009. The primary knock on Branch’s tenure in Seattle was that he just couldn’t stay on the field due to injuries. Not necessarily his fault, of course.

by SmartAssCoug on Jun 23, 2011 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well,

if you don’t use jelly then perhaps it fits after all.

Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Jun 23, 2011 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I forgot resign Brock (making him pay for team meals for the season as penitence).

Also, Bryant if he is FA (not sure if he is, but I love that guy – siglehandedly made our run defense respectable when in and downright embarrassing when out).

by Chief Knockahomer on Jun 23, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Goldson, that turd who plays for the Niners?

No thanks. I also don’t think we should just dump Trufant. He desperately needs a pay cut and demoted to #2 corner, but is still valuable enough to keep on the team.

Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
Shut up about Andrew Luck already.

by Wayward Llama on Jun 24, 2011 4:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have a hard time seeing the salary cap to be as low as 110 million

It was 128 million in 2009. Why wouldn’t this years be over that? The 120 million was just an easy number that was thrown out there to make calculating the minimum payroll easily understandable to readers. Has anyone seen any indication of what it would really be?

by B.B.Finnegan on Jun 22, 2011 2:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Don't think so.

That’s probably what they are working on today and tomorrow in meetings between the players and NFL.

Earl Thomas + Mark Legree = Earl Gree. A new flavor of safety coming to you on Sunday's this Fall. They're gonna wake you up!

by Bobby Cink on Jun 22, 2011 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

We don't know in the current negotiations

But the old reports were that the NFLPA wanted $151 million and the NFL $131 million. So, between those two numbers. These guys even up it between 141 and 151. It’ll be up, but if it ends up really high there’ll be all the more reasons for the negotiations to include a salary floor buffer with gradual increases.

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 22, 2011 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Doug puts it

At 110 to 130

All over the place! You’d figure it’d be up from 2009 (128) or 2010 (124 in average spending), but that doesn’t seem to be where we’re heading.

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 22, 2011 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Doug's numbers exclude "benefits" such as the retired players fund

and that the previous numbers include them. They should account for $20-40 million.

Previously, the two sides were talking about fixed numbers (with a predicted growth of revenues over time). Now, it looks like the two sides are talking about a straight percentage.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jun 22, 2011 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

The only problem I have with your wish list is that it is basically the same wish-list as every other team out there.

Most teams have similar needs, really. OL/DL help. Good DB’s.

The players listed are going to cost a ton to sign, particularly those on the higher end of the scale, i.e., the ones who can come in and help your team.

Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Jun 22, 2011 4:18 PM PDT reply actions  

That's why I like the idea of the signing someone like James Jones.

He’s been inconsistent enough in Green Bay that no one is going to give him a huge contract, but he’s still a downfield threat that the Seahawks need. I think there are a few affordable free agents out there that will be a better fit for us over their previous teams.

by J.L. White on Jun 22, 2011 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's why it's called a "wish list", I guess.

I’m pretty sure he’s not thinking that the Hawks are going to sign every one of those guys.

That said, I do think Seattle has a lot to offer knowledgeable free agents: a player’s coach, great facilities, and (in most cases) an almost guarantee starting spot.

by djafrot on Jun 22, 2011 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

How is that a problem?

He isn’t saying sign all of them (well, except for the DL), just listing guys he’d be happy to have. Yes, of course other teams would be happy to have them too, otherwise they probably wouldn’t be worth having.

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 22, 2011 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I just see a lot of optimism in general right now...

that we’ll get Gallery (and perhaps another OL starter), a couple front tier DL contributors, a couple DB contributors.

And it isn’t just Danny, or a fault in general. I just don’t know that we’re going to get any of the top guys, and given last year’s track history, I fully expect to get a bunch of guys I have no idea who they were, but suddenly they’re important cogs for us.

Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Jun 22, 2011 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm usually not a fan of off-season optimism either

But the fact is we’ll be quite a bit under the cap. We won’t be the only one, but we it seems very unlikely we’ll reach the cap floor just by resigning our guys and then signing some scrubs. In the way things are projected right now, we have to sign an expensive FA.

Maybe Hasselbeck?

by Thomas Beekers on Jun 23, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sigh. Now you're just trying to rile me up...

Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.

by Tyler Jorgensen on Jun 23, 2011 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.

But why would that DL you mentioned (sorry; started writing this 3-4 hours ago and forgot, and being on mobile it’s inconvenient to look up) only be suitable the 1- or 5-tech, as opposed to any of the misaligned/odd techniques?

Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.

by THolt on Jun 22, 2011 7:58 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

DL meaning d-lineman, and it was Branch.

Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.

by THolt on Jun 22, 2011 7:59 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Both the 1-tech and 5-tech use 2-gap technique

Alan Branch is a 3-4 NT and is best suited for that sort of job. He’d likely struggle as much as Cole generating very much pass-rush as a 1-gapping 3-tech.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jun 22, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Damn, well put.

Just clarified a litany of questions I didn’t even ask. Grazi.

Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.

by THolt on Jun 22, 2011 11:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Well this news probably just cost us a 3rd rounder next year

Brandon Mebane had a 3rd round tender, but was otherwise not given any offers during the exclusive rights phase of the offseason. Mebanes value is no secret to NFL GMs, and since quality run stopping 1 techs with relatively good pass rushing ability dont exactly grow on trees, Seattle will have to pay a lot of money to retain Mebane, and all the evidence so far points the opposite way.

Which I was fine with. As great as Mebane is, and as much as it sucks to think about losing him, he’s a mismatch with the current scheme and was surprisingly one of the weakest contributors on the defense last year (only because of scheme, not because he’s lost anything). I’ve even heard rumors that Mebane was told to start getting ready for a move by the FO.

But what cancelled out this dread was the knowledge that Seattle would be getting a 3rd rounder back for losing him. But if this proposal comes true, they would now gain probably nothing from losing Mebane. He’d count towards compensational picks next year, but you know how dumb compensational picks are. We lost several big time starters in FA last year and got hosed because we signed Ben Hamilton, for example.

Here’s hoping that the FO makes up for this by signing as many would-be RFA’s as possible. In particular, I’d be all for an Alan Branch signing. He’s every bit as good as Red Bryant in the 5 tech role.

by Kip Earlywine on Jun 23, 2011 2:57 AM PDT reply actions  

Cuts both ways Kip.

We can go out and fuck some other teams out of picks they were counting on too.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Jun 23, 2011 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope we do

Because we already know we’re going to be on the receiving end.

by Kip Earlywine on Jun 24, 2011 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

In an uncapped year,

teams can’t increase a player’s salary by more than 30% per year, which means we weren’t allowed to offer him a reasonable contract.

by bewrong on Jun 25, 2011 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

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