Seahawks on the Precipice: Russell Okung
It feels a bit strange to write about Russell Okung in this series. After all, "Seahawks on the Precipice" is about players who have flashed promise or should have done so, and what we can expect from them next year. Russell Okung's rookie season certainly wasn't ideal, missing half the pre-season and six games in the regular season due to unfortunate injuries. Those injuries also slowed him down a bit during the games he did play. Yet I've seen (fairly random) NFL writers state that Russell Okung has question marks left as a fit into our system, and has to prove himself in his second year. But as far as I can tell, Okung did prove himself, showing himself ready to start immediately (his first full game as a starter was again the Bears and Julius Peppers, who he shut down) and flashing enormous potential. His question marks did not come from his play as much as the fact that he was injured multiple times, and that one is harder to dismiss casually.
The prospect of Okung's career being derailed by injury is a scary one, and it's certainly troubling that he's suffered high ankle sprains on both ankles already. The likelihood of a derail actually happening is hard to peg down exactly. High ankle sprains tend to be serious and tend to lead to reccurence. The fact that we're playing our home games on turf doesn't help. It is at least encouraging that Okung's injuries happened in unusual circumstances with teammates rolling on his ankles, which we can hope won't happen a lot. John Morgan did some solid writeups on high ankle sprains here and specifically for Okung here. If you want to read some more, here is former Jaguars head team physician R. Stephen Lucie, MD on the nature of ankle sprains and high ankle sprains. As Dr. Lucie pointed out way back then, ankle sprains are very common, and high ankle sprains are no exception. Adrian Peterson had one in college in 2005. Tom Brady had one a few years back, as did Terrell Owens. So did Bob Sanders, but there are few injuries in professional football Bob Sanders hasn't had.
I don't get the sense Okung ever played injury-free. Of course, no NFL player ever plays fully injury-free, but at times - especially near the end of the season - it looked like his ankles slowed him down a bit. Our FO clearly wasn't careless about it and kept him out as many games as needed, but it still had a visible impact on his game. I noticed this particularly when I went back to watch our wild card game against the Saints, where our Oline as a whole played particularly well. The Saints are a difficult team to handle as they attack the offense in very creative ways. While the line as a whole reacted to stunts by the Saints well, that's hard to put on one individual lineman rather than the line as a whole. Okung had to deal with their pretty damn good defensive end, Will Smith. If you glance at Smith's numbers this year (5.5 sacks), you might think he had a down year, but talking with Bucs Nation head writer Sander about him, he noted Smith performed very well against the Bucs pro bowl (alternate) left tackle Donald Penn (the best LT in pro football according to Michael Lombardi).
Much like games against Peppers, Okung handled Will Smith beautifully in one-on-one situations, both stopping him dead as a pass blocker and in moving him out of the way as a run blocker - though more runs went off right end/tackle than left, presumably to spare our left side. There is only one occurence where Okung looked to be beat by Will Smith and LG Tyler Polumbus stepped in well to help him. Okung did look weak against the bull rush, getting nearly pushed into Hasselbeck more than once, but I find it easy to dismiss that as due to his bad ankles. Similarly, this was not Okung's game when it came to blocking downfield, as he looked slow and didn't always make the best decisions. On the Beastquake run, Mike Mayock noted the "whole team" was down there with him, but as far as I can tell Okung went down at the line to block for Lynch and did not accompany him further to the endzone, though Polumbus can be found running in front of Lynch. Not really a criticism, just noting he didn't look 100%. Speaking of, Polumbus looked pretty good at LG, just like he looked adequate-to-good filling in on the line all year. I hope he's back, that kind of depth is valuable, and I wouldn't even be scared if by dint of necessity he's the starter at LG come this season.
Worst-case scenario: The nightmare scenario is pretty obvious. The recurrence bug bites with Okung missing games this next season as he sprains one of his ankles again. The more it happens, the more worrisome it gets.
Best-case scenario: Russell Okung starts 16 games, plays left tackle at a high level and is selected to the pro bowl.
My take: Russell Okung starts 16 games, plays left tackle at a high level, but isn't selected for the pro bowl due to playing in Southern Alaska.
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As long as people stop falling on the back of his legs, he should be fine.
That’s one worry I have with our (probable) acquisition of Gallery. I recall that he likes to flop around a bit.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
Shut up about Andrew Luck already.
by Wayward Llama on Jul 19, 2011 10:06 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I am the opposite of concerned about Okung.
I just want to see him play, in part because he’ll make the naysayers shut up but also because with him on the field the line is a LOT better already than it is with him off of it.
He has naysayers?
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
Shut up about Andrew Luck already.
by Wayward Llama on Jul 19, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
A few
Though I couldn’t provide links. I saw some pundits pose questions, but mostly the kind who don’t pay attention to the Seahawks. And NFC West or Seahawks writer knows what we got.
by Thomas Beekers on Jul 19, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Ya a lot of ... lets say lesser informed people
like to say Okung is not an NFL tackle because he isn’t “athletic” or " quick " enough. I want some of what they are smoking.
by alexander_37 on Jul 19, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he will be one of the most physically dominant players in the NFL soon
As far as I can tell, Okung has every tool a LT needs to be great, and if he stays healthy I think he will soon be considered one of the best 2 or 3 LTs in the game.
Okung played way better then I thought he would.
He handled some of the best rushers in the league pretty easy. I do think that while you are watching film on him, focus on his foot work and how he throws his feet out. It doesnt look normal. This could be a result of his injuries and the amount of wrap on his ankles. It might just be me. Carpenter is just as good if not better. I know that is saying a lot but I wouldnt be surprised if Carpenter ended up playing LT. Okung did have issues with bull rushers because his mobility was hampered but for the most part he also silenced those same bull rushers for most of the game. His rookie year was very good. Looks to me like he’s a great fit in Seattle.
by Redzone59 on Jul 19, 2011 11:37 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
maybe more than anything i am just blown away by his power
When I see him really drive into someone I cannot imagine that anyone could overcome his strength. Just impossibly physically strong. But you may be right that his technique is getting compromised by compensating for his injuries or something, so lets hope that wont be an issue for him going forward.
The positive about Okung suffering high ankle sprains is that he didn't suffer knee injuries
which are often the alternate injury to the same force. If you’ll recall, Walt suffered his essentially career ending knee injury with a DL being blocked down into his leg from the side… multiple surgeries could never fix the cartilage injury.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
Plus Big Walt was allergic to some of the medicines required for the surgery.. if I remember correctly
by Redzone59 on Jul 19, 2011 12:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
he couldn't take NSAIDs (ibuprofen, alleve) because they can potentially cause renal injury...
e.g. Kenny Easley.
the point, completely unclear in my post, is that it’s good Okung’s knees are stronger than his ankles in my book. this with some reasonable medical knowledge and experience.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
I'm thinking in three years Okung will be the best right tackle in the game...
and Carpenter will be at Left Tackle, and be excellent at it. I think their talents are, once experience settles in, better suited for the opposite sides.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 19, 2011 1:05 PM PDT reply actions
That's really interesting, and the second time mentioned in this thread. Can you articulate why you think they will be better on opposite sides?
If I had to guess
It’s because Okung is more powerful while Carpenter kind of looks like a finesse pass protector, at least in some of the more popular film. I haven’t really scouted Carpenter, so I can’t comment much, but I’d object to it on the grounds that Okung is clearly a superior player, and your best player should be on the left. Or at least the weakside.
by Thomas Beekers on Jul 19, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Would the dynamic change if Leinert became the starter?
Or, to phrase the question another way, if Leinert became the starter, would we expect to see a change in the line-up, with Okung moving to the right side?
Or, if Carpenter is the better LT, would that make him the better RT with a lefty at QB?
I would expect Okung to follow the weakside, yes, so move to the right
That is the only context in which this move would make sense.
by Thomas Beekers on Jul 20, 2011 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I think that's a portion of it.
Okung is a true road-grader type blocker. Definitely at his elite best at run blocking, and while not slow mind you, not quite as quick on his feet in pass protection as you would ideally want. Yes, he looked well against a couple of very good DE’s— but Peppers is a guy who is a perfect example of the type of pass rusher he would be best against— while fast, Peppers is first and foremost a big strong guy— a guy Okung can match up with better than most LT’s can— because Okung is positionally just as big and strong.
Will Smith is closer to average size/strength wise, and both fast and known as a technique guy. That Okung can do well against that type of player is a great sign. However, as teams move further from classic 4-3 to 3-4 alignments, I think you will see more teams put smaller faster speed-type OLB rushers on both sides, minimizing the effectiveness of a powerful road-grading type LT and maximizing the effectiveness of a laterally quicker “finesse” LT. Carpenter isn’t “finesse” mind you, but he is closer to the prototype than is Okung.
Remember, Carpenter did play LT at Alabama and is a little faster/quicker on his feet than is Okung. I also think that Okung is going to remain a road grader and power-player, however Carpenter is still improving and will be getting better as his career progresses. In other words, Okung is closer to his ceiling at the moment, and while better talent wise today, three years from now, Carpenter’s improvement will pair them as equals.
There is another aspect I cringe to think about, but it is very much a part of my thought process. I think Okung may continue to have (although hopefully occasional) injury concerns. Left Tackle being the more critical position, you place the guy who will play 16 games a year there, as opposed to the guy who will play 10-12 games a year.
As for Leinhart, I think he is a possibility, and if he turns out to not only make the team but play, then we keep them right where they are.
Regardless, I’m just tickled pink that we’re building around bookend linemen, both of whom have potential to be very good on either side of the OL. Really it is a win-win for the future of the Seahawks.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions
You're judging Okung's foot-speed when he was playing on two dingy ankles
Unless Okung continues to have injury concerns, he is simply the superior player. I’m not seeing it.
by Thomas Beekers on Jul 20, 2011 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, the 3-4 trend has washed up a few years back
We’re not really moving towards it as a league anymore.
by Thomas Beekers on Jul 20, 2011 3:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I'm not sold on that at all.
Houston is putting Mario Williams at a 3-4 backer spot— maybe the best pure athletic DE in the league, and you’re saying teams aren’t still going to a 3-4? not buying.
Teams are still copycatting the 3-4.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Teams are still going to the 3-4 but some are going back to the 4-3
The Patriots are a good example of this. The Texans, specifically, are using the 3-4 because they hired Wade Phillips as their DC. It should be noted, as well, that his style of 3-4 uses a lot of 1-gap technique.
I think its pretty clear that the 3-4 isn’t “washed-up”, but the rate of conversion from 4-3 to 3-4 has certainly slowed (I think more than half of the NFL now runs a 3-4-type system) and some teams are switching back (probably to take advantage of the market for players).
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 20, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
The Texans runs a Phillips 3-4
That is more like the 4-3 than the traditional 3-4.
by Thomas Beekers on Jul 20, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
All I know is Mario Williams is going to be a two point player.
Call it what you will, that’s a linebacker in my book, not a defensive end.
And while I don’t disagree that a couple teams might be sliding back to 4-3, the bulk of teams in the league are still utilizing a 3-4, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
You define players by their stance? I don't think Williams is different for Okung to handle depending on his stance
As for the bulk, I don’t think so. I might be wrong, but I think The Patriots, Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Steelers, Ravens, Texans, Chiefs, Chargers, Broncos, Cowboys, Redskins, Packers, 49ers and Cardinals runs a 3-4. 15 teams, a close minority. Several of those use 4-3-type assignments in the 3-4 (Packers and Texans, most noticeably). It’s also more AFC (10) than NFC teams (5), though two of them are in our division.
by Thomas Beekers on Jul 20, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
The stance and the language.
As in a google search (that filled in linebacker once I typed “Mario Williams to…”)
Here. This is a significant switch, and one that surprises me. But whatever.
Regardless, you’re splitting hairs about my reasoning. The preponderance of smaller quicker pass rushers vs. LT’s was a smaller dynamic to why I would consider flipping them. I’m being optimistic in the prediction, but it isn’t completely out of left field.
Moving on…
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not splitting hairs
You said 3-4 is the bulk, they’re not. I’m pointing out how some 3-4s run in a way that Okung would still face the same kind of player, like Texans’ 3-4 with Mario Williams. This isn’t splitting hairs, your assumptions on the changing skillset needed for LTs/RTs are wrong.
by Thomas Beekers on Jul 21, 2011 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Okay.
Not the bulk. But just as many as aren’t running it.
And the typical 3-4 build for LB is smaller than a 4-3 end. Therefor, essentially half the teams in the league are running a smaller quicker player as opposed to a traditional size and strength DE.
This would imply that LT might possibly be more fitting to the quicker afoot tackle. This is not old news, and has been that way for a long time.
However, the sliding of more and more teams to a 3-4 (be it 10 or 20 teams, not the point— the general adjustment in the league is the key) makes being quicker afoot even more significant than in the past.
With that in mind, PERHAPS moving the less physical Carpenter to the left side and the destroyer that is Okung to the right side will maximize Carpenter AND Okung (though Okung could also be a good LT. But he could maybe be a HoF RT.)
So yeah. That’s my point— or at least that aspect of it. (Again, the injury concern is another significant dynamic to my point.)
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 21, 2011 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I completely agree
Okung is head and shoulders above James.
Again, injury concerns are significant part of the reasoning.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
i gotta agree with Vasilii on this one
although it is hard to assess when Carpenter was reportedly playing through his high ankle sprains in college (for how many games?).
On that note, having watched every offensive play for Carpenter in 4 games his senior year and the senior bowl, and having watched Okung tape from two games his senior year, Okung was just way better in every aspect of the game, power run blocking, pulling and open field blocking, pass protection, persistence, nastiness, power, physical dominance. For Carpenter to be better than Okung, he will have to have huge gains on his competition (NFL defensive linemen and Okung) in strength and power, he will have to improve his technique a bit moving his feet and vastly using his hands, he will have to become a more determined player and he will have to be a nastier player. I am not saying that Carpenter doesn’t have the potential to be better, but just because he was not as polished in college doesn’t mean he has more potential, it just means he was not as polished. In college, Okung just looked flat out better than Carpenter.
It will take a lot of “ifs” for James to be better than Russell. But damn, I sure hope it happens because then we’d have two really fucking good tackles.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
"just because he was not as polished in college doesn't mean he has more potential."
I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.
I’m not saying because he wasn’t as polished that he will be better than Okung when he develops. I’m saying his skillset is possibly maximized better at LT than at RT, and Okung perhaps the opposite (though higher ceiling at both slots, relative to the rest of the league.) Now, that being said, if Okung stays healthy, the need to do this decreases. What’s more, if we bring in a LH QB (ala Leinhart) we’re in the unique position right now of having LT quality Tackles at both sides regardless of who plays where— which is absolutely a good thing.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
While Okung's lateral mobility might be considered a liability in pass pro against a speed LB
I almost pity that same LB when Russell gets to block downhill when we run behind him.
by SmartAssCoug on Jul 20, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Nice write-up. Assuming Okung maintains his health, and Carpenter plays like expected...
…you gotta think the Seahawks will have an awesome line for years to come.
the thought of Unger starting at center does not fill me with optimism
most of what I’m reading suggests that letting Spencer walk is a foregone conclusion.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
Yeah, not looking forward to seeing Unger back.
Maybe he’ll improve. Here’s hoping.
Offseason 2011: Kelly Jennings, Craig Terrill, and Matt Hasselbeck...good riddance.
Shut up about Andrew Luck already.
by Wayward Llama on Jul 20, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
This might help explain the decision:
“They have no qualms that center is his natural position,” one team insider said of Unger, who started the final three games at center his rookie year in 2009 (after starting at right guard most of the campaign) and missing practically all of last season with a toe injury. “They think he has the same kind of intangibles as (former Seahawks C) Robbie Tobeck, with the ability to see the field well and make pre-snap calls. And like (former Seahawks OG) Steve Hutchinson, Unger rarely makes the same mistake twice.”
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/07/13/seahawks-confident-unger-can-get-job-done-at-cente
It sounds like the decision-making was an issue. Spencer might be the better athlete, but Spencer might have had issues in making pre-snap calls. We had a string of 3 games where we had undefended A-gap blitzers that were able to run unimpeded at the QB. I can’t help but think those might have affected this decision.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 20, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm more concerned that even if Unger makes the right line calls
he won’t have the physical strength to block a 4-3 DT on his own or provide assistance with either guard on a 3-4 NT. You’d still be looking at virtually unimpeded A-gap runs at the QB, just this time without the need for the defense to blitz anyone.
by SmartAssCoug on Jul 20, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Do we know what the 2011 Unger will look like?
In John Morgan’s first scouting report, he described him as a guy that could use some bulking-up. Well, he’s had an entire year to do just that. He could come back looking frail and sickly or bloated and out of shape, but there’s a good chance he’ll look a little better than he did the last time he started at C.
The other issue is that the center is one of the headier positions in the offense. The best players at that position aren’t necessarily the best athletes. Sure, they can hold their own (and no one wants to see Unger bull-rushed off his feet on every play), but they also lead the OL. If your center is just a guy that can block well and isn’t able to handle his pre-snap responsibilities, then he’s not doing his job. I don’t know how the OL staff graded out Spencer, but it sounds like they weren’t excited about him and think Unger has a better chance at being a compete C.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 20, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Chris Spencer is doomed to be our next Kevin Mawae.
And if we would have done things the right way, we’d never be talking about Reggie Freakin’ Toebeck because Kevin Mawae would have been a perennial all-pro for us. Instead we talk about how a low ceiling player was gritty and smart. And now we grab another low ceiling player to fulfill that low expectation.
Yay.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
As a former WSU guy, I like Tobeck
At the same time, I’m positive it’s easier to be gritty, cerebral and demonstrate intangibles when you’re lining up next to Walt, Hutch and even Chris Gray every week.
by SmartAssCoug on Jul 20, 2011 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he actually made Gray better, not the other way around.
But yeah, I want a higher ceiling guy if possible.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Do we know that Spencer won't figure out his line calls in 2011 either?
Spencer has kinda had an uphill fight since he was drafted. Spent 2 years at Guard. Took over at Center the year our offense switched mid-season to a primary passing offense (from the more balanced game we had before). 2008 there were so many injuries on OL, I’m shocked if he remembers half the guys he lined up next to from one week to the next.
2009, new HC/OC install a new offense and move to zone blocking. He plays with a broken wrist, publicly called out by his coach and moved to guard. And then last year, again with a new HC/OC and new offensive system, but this time his OL coach quits just before the season starts.
I’ll admit it’s quite possible that Spencer never figures it out. But he has the physical ability to play the position, just has questions about the mental aspects. Thus far, Unger has questions both physically and mentally. I don’t remember him being outstanding in 2009 at C any more than he’d been at G that year, but I could be wrong. Point is, on a team with an already young OL, with question marks at so many other positions, I want the guy I know has at lease one + quality, rather than the guy who might have a + quality.
by SmartAssCoug on Jul 20, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We don't even know, for sure, that the line calls are the issue
but it sounds like coaching staff are making these decisions based on their evaluation that Unger’s got his head in the game.
You mention that you think we need to give Spencer (a guy who will be a 6th-year vet in 2011) a chance to show that he can do the job yet you seem very dismissive of the chances of Unger based on his rookie performance amidst a horribly disfunctional OL. There’s something irrational about this whole “Spencer hasn’t had enough chances” but “Unger has proven he can’t play in the NFL” sentiment that seems pretty widespread.
Unger’s major problems were (a) being a rookie and (b) needing to bulk up. He’s had a year to bulk up and build strength but people are assuming he’s going to be the exact same Unger we saw 2 years ago. None of us knows what his physical state is, but the guys making decisions do.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 20, 2011 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Unger didn't just "need to bulk up."
He was consistently overmatched and overpowered. He wasn’t NFL Line strong.
He has a small base— smallish narrow hips and a wide upper body. I’m not sure how much “bulking up” he can do. He’s simply built wrong.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
So lets say all of this is true,
why do you think the coaching staff is trying to replace Spencer with Unger? Is it because they don’t like Spencer’s face or because Unger has “grit” or because they want the OL to fail. Honestly, I’m just trying to understand the decision making process, not just weep and moan because a familiar player might not return.
What we know (or think we know) is this:
(a) they don’t seem to like Spencer as a center (and neither did the previous regime)
(b) they prefer Unger and think he’s a better fit than Spencer
© this is based, seemingly, on leadership/pre-snap adjustments/line calls
(d) they are trying to put the best OL possible on the field and probably wouldn’t intentionally sabotage the team
If you think Unger is clearly physically incapable of playing football at the NFL level, why wouldn’t the OL coaches be able to see this as well? If Spencer is doing just a great job, why aren’t they interested in re-signing him to a long-term contract (and keeping Unger around as a flexible depth guy)?
NFL teams make decisions all the time that we agree or disagree with, that turn out for better or worse. All of these decisions are based on some kind of rationale. While some football guys make decisions based on gut instincts, you have to imagine that there’s more than that going on in most of the cases. All I’m saying is that, if the decision looks bad on the face of it (trading away Tapp or Sims or Wilson), then maybe there might be piece of the puzzle we’re missing (Tapp and Wilson aren’t actually stars in the making and Alex Gibbs was a cranky asshole).
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 21, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I think obviously they are hoping Unger is better.
They didn’t see him fail, and are more willing to attribute that failure to the previous regime as opposed to his ability level.
They got frustrated with Spencer, and have given up on him. That doesn’t mean they like Unger, only that they have him and think his natural position is C and they hope he’ll do a better job with reads.
And he very well may be better with reads. But there is a give and take, and Spencer might have been weaker at reads, but he wouldn’t get blown away by anyone aside from the elite of the elite. Unger is going to need a lot more help in one-on-one situations.
Am I saying he is physically incapable of playing at the NFL level? No. I am saying he’s physically incapable of being a knock you on your ass physical force in the NFL. Spencer was that strong. The rest of the line appears to be molding into that type of a mentality, and Unger flows counter-intuitive to that type of physical dominance.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 21, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
carroll put up some serious time coaching against Unger in college
as he was a 4 year starter at Oregon, and one of the best OL in the PAC10. He started as a freshman and sophomore as the Ducks LT… He had a far superior college performance than Carpenter or Moffitt. Unger might have more flexibility on the line than any other player, potentially could play all 5 positions in a pinch. if you haven’t, check out his college profile:
http://www.goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=70438
I’ll admit he performed badly his rookie year. I wonder how much that had to do with just the whole team being completely pathologic under Mora and Ruskell and all the crap of the 2009 season. More significantly, I wonder if his he was playing through turf toe all of his rookie year and into the second season before he “injured it” requiring surgery – sometimes turf toe goes away on its own, sometimes you need surgery to removed the inflamed tissue, and sometime you rupture the inflamed tendon requiring surgery – a chronic turf toe would explain why one of the best college linemen coming out in his draft year couldn’t get a push or hold ground…. you may in fact be wrong that he is incapable of being a knock you on your ass player, after all, he was that kind of player in a damn good college conference
i don’t know what i think about unger, but if PC and JS are keeping him around for this year as a starting center or guard, then i believe he will become the player we expected out of college, especially under tom cable’s tutelage.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
It also bears pointing out
The same coaching staff had both Spencer and Unger last year. They started the season with Spencer at C and Unger at G. I agree that this has less to do with them being enamored with Unger and more to do with frustration with Spencer.
Either way, if they let Spencer walk we’re going to need to sign someone as C depth. My preference in that case be we get a decent FA C with experience as the starter and continue with Unger as the depth guy.
by SmartAssCoug on Jul 22, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
It was a different OL coaching staff to start the year
I got the feeling that Spencer at C was Gibbs’ idea. Then he left and Unger was injured. The new OL coaching staff will presumably be led by Cable.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 22, 2011 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I think a team that already has a lot of holes doesn't need to create a new one
As of today Okung has 10 games started, and that’s all we know. We don’t know what’s going on at LG, but we can assume a veteran will be signed. Unger has 17 starts (most at RG), while Moffit and Carpenter have 0.
Call me crazy, but I’m not terribly excited at the prospect of having 2/3 of our interior OL having one season of experience combined, with the majority of that by a guy who played out of position. I’d much rather have a guy with 70 starts and 80 games played next to our rookie guard.
If this were a veteran line, with two experienced guards, then I’d be fine taking our lumps and finding out what Unger can become. That’s not the case, however, and we need more than 1 experienced player on the line to help the other 3 develop.
by SmartAssCoug on Jul 21, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Is it about experience (games played) or leadership?
If Spencer is getting the job done physically (blocking his man, etc) but isn’t getting the rest of the job done (being vocal, making line calls and pre-snap adjustments), then he’s not really going to be helpful in this area. If you’re looking for a center that can organize the OL, then it sounds like Unger is the guy you want.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 21, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
No-- it sounds like the coaching staff HOPE Unger is the guy you want.
None of that is proven yet, it’s all still “just on paper.”
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 21, 2011 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
This is true
We don’t really know why the coaches are making the decisions or what Unger looks like or how well Spencer handles line-call duties, etc. All we know is that Spencer is likely on the outs, Unger is likely the next starting center and the coaches probably have some rationale for it.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 21, 2011 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Or they could just be trying to be very sneaky
Talking up Unger to either depress the contract value for Spencer, or hiding our desire to sign another FA center to start ahead of Unger.
by SmartAssCoug on Jul 22, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Well said.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
THIS.
Agreed.
Until this lockout business ends, you'll see me as often on the links as you will on field gulls. Also-- everytime I swing the driver, I'll imagine Roger Goodell is the ball.
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 20, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions

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