Pete Carroll Wants A Game Manager At QB? You Bet
I'm beginning to get the feeling that a day won't go by this season in Seattle where the quarterback position won't be a hotly contested topic. If fans aren't arguing about who should, or shouldn't, be the starter in 2011, they're debating about who should be drafted as the "Quarterback of the Future" (QBOTF) in 2012. The later has been a point of contention after Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll appeared on 710ESPN's "Kevin Calabro Show" and made the following comments at about the 13:40 mark:
"We're not trying to make our quarterback the guy that's gotta throw the ball 40 times a game. We want a guy that manages the offense really well, and can keep us moving and get us into the best plays, that allows the whole team to function.
All the way back to the USC days that's all we've ever asked of our quarterbacks. They won Heismans and all that, but they were always just the point guard in the offense. Even back to Carson Palmer and through [Mark] Sanchez, all those guys, and that's what we'd like to see right now."
First of all, I think Pete's comments were pretty clear. But for whatever reason debates have broken out on message boards and Twitter over one little word.
The word "manages" stirs up a lot of very strong feelings for people when it comes to describing quarterback play. There is a perception that in the NFL "game managers" won't win your franchise Super Bowls, though I'm sure Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and even Eli Manning beg to differ.
But do those guys even resemble the type of quarterback Pete was describing?
Now, just so we are clear, the following is neither an endorsement or disagreement with Pete's approach. It is simply an attempt to clarify and better describe Carroll's philosophies and methods based on what I know and have learned from Carroll, and about his approach to the game over the last 10 years.Earlier this summer, Carroll addressed some of the top high school quarterbacks in the country in Malibu, Calif. at the Elite 11 QB competition. Carroll was invited by camp coaches Trent Dilfer and Yogi Roth to open the weeklong camp with a speech about what it means to be an elite quarterback. I didn't get to hear the speech myself, but ESPN saved the day when they aired the following from that night:
"All we've ever tried to do with our quarterbacks is make them perform like they're capable of performing."
"I'm looking for the best competitor."
"I'm looking for the guy that's gonna compete. It might not be the strongest arm, it might not be the tallest guy, it might not be the fastest guy. I want the guy that's gonna battle for me, day in and day out, moment to moment I'm gonna know who he is, and we're gonna go win championships."
Seems pretty clear, right? All Carroll is saying that he doesn't wanna throw 40 times a game, and he doesn't mind if his quarterback has some mechanical flaws. Some of the best quarterbacks in the game have physical limitations - Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are so slow you could time their 40's with a sun dial, Philip Rivers has an awkward release and Matt Ryan has been knocked for a lack of arm strength. But Carroll would take any of them in a heartbeat, and who wouldn't?
To Carroll, those guys all "manage the offense really well". They play within their skill set, and maximize their strengths. Just because you and I wouldn't necessarily use the phrase "game manager" to describe them, doesn't mean that description is totally inaccurate in the context Carroll uses the term.
If you think Pete doesn't want an elite quarterback, you're mistaken. As he said in the Carlabro interview, Carroll recruited and signed elite QB's at USC, and had great success in doing so. 2 Heisman winning QB's, 2 All-Americans, 5 NFL Draft picks (Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart, Matt Cassel, John David Booty, Mark Sanchez), 3 1st round draft picks (4 once Matt Barkley is drafted); and he would (and did) describe everyone of them as a game manager. You could conclude from that resumé that Pete understands how to evaluate talent at the quarterback position. You don't win those accolades by conservatively handcuffing your quarterback, you win them by being efficient and calculated in your offensive approach.
Obviously, the college game is different than the NFL, but as I said, the words in this space aren't to support or disprove his philosophy, they're to better explain how Carroll approaches the quarterback position.
But if you don't wanna take my word for it, take Pete's.
In an interview this spring with 950 KJR Carroll said the following about how he values quarterbacks:
On if he’s a coach that is (theoretically speaking) willing to ‘mortgage the future’ in order to acquire the right quarterback even if it costs one or more first round picks or what not in order to make the acquisition:
"For that position yes. If he’s the right guy and can really lead you and command the position like the great players have been able to do, then it’s totally worth it. That player being available is a whole different question — is there somebody out there that is like that? But it is so important that whatever it takes to get the guy, you get him in my mind. And John feels the same way about that. But whether there’s somebody available to even have the chance to go that far, that’s a whole different story. But yeah, I think that position stands out above all of the rest so much so that if you’ve got a guy that’s been there and know can do it, that can sit and matchup with the players that you have, then you’ve got to do what you can do to go get it done."
His words, not mine. That doesn't sound like a coach who doesn't see the value of an elite quarterback, even if he calls him a "game manager".
Danny put together another piece on Bill Walsh's quarterbacking philosophy and his influence on Pete Carroll that relates to this piece as well, check it out here.
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Pete uses the Point Guard analogy
to describe a guy who can exploit match ups. I like that. I get that.
The problem I have with the “game manager” tag, though, is that there are games when you don’t have a choice about throwing it 40 times. However, like you said, Pete uses the words differently than the typical fan. I think he really means a guy who is careful with the ball. Some of the elite QBs are careful with the ball, which makes them game managers.
Truth is, though, reading too much into what Pete says is silly. He spends a lot of words in interviews trying to inflate his currently average players with optimism and confidence. I am fine with that, but I don’t read too much into the tea leaves. Like you said, if Pete could get his hands on a franchise quarterback right now he would do it in a heartbeat. Even if his game plan was not to throw it 40 times per game. A lot of his current interviews really sound like he is trying to verbally give Jackson some confidence.
This ain’t your daddy’s NFL, the rules favor passing. It is better to have a QB who can sling it and not need him, than it is to need a QB who can do that and not have him.
by Harvey Manfrengenson on Aug 26, 2011 7:22 AM PDT reply actions
lets take future HoFamer Farve,
Is Farve a game manager? No really. He’s got a howizer for an arm, tough as nails, good downfield vision, but more or less does what he wants when he wants, and fails to fully expoit the powers of the offense. (IMO). I know, Madden is sending out a hit man as I write. And yes, Farve has career numbers to die for (including INTs). Compare that to Montana, no gun for an arm, tough .. but nothing like Farve, but Montana maxed the performance of the entire offense.
I know there are a bazillion caveats to this, different offenses etc, but in the end both teams were sick with talent on both sides of the ball, and one team finished the run with one SB, the other.
Montana
Won four Super Bowls, and both teams offenses were rooted in the same principles. I’d even dare to say that the 90’s Packers ran the most similiar offense to the Montana led Niners.
Can't wait for the 2011 season to kick in.
I'm a one man rec'n crew
by jubelthebear on Aug 26, 2011 9:02 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Which is why I said when Pete says game manager, he means ball protection
Favre would Make Pete cry. And point at his balls a lot.
by Harvey Manfrengenson on Aug 26, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
40 times a game
Just to address one thing in your comment:
The problem I have with the "game manager" tag, though, is that there are games when you don’t have a choice about throwing it 40 times.
I think it’s clear, based on track record, that Pete isn’t opposed to throwing it 40 times in a game if need be, his point is that they won’t go into a game with that approach. look for about 450 or less pass attempts on the year (if possible), not 500-650 like some teams.
Beautiful article Scott.
But also remember that the ‘reply’ button will be your best friend from now on in FG.
"Beware challenger
Thou hath angered Hawku fan
COME AT ME THOU FOOL"
Oops?
Did I reply to a comment wrong already? Rooooookie move right out the gate!
by Scott Enyeart on Aug 26, 2011 7:56 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
It happens to the best of people.
OT- you look like you are playing pool in your dp.
"Beware challenger
Thou hath angered Hawku fan
COME AT ME THOU FOOL"
Lol
Yeah playing pool, getting tips in the headset
by Scott Enyeart on Aug 26, 2011 8:11 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd agree. If Pete and coaches think they can win a game on the ground, that's how they'll proceed.
And Tarvaris will game manage, throw the ball 20ish times to exploit too-many-men-in-the-box plays, and the majority of the work will be done on the ground.
I mean, why wouldn’t you do that?
Pete Carroll isn’t stupid – he KNOWS that he doesn’t exactly have Michael Vick at the helm. He understands the flaws in Tarvaris, and he’ll make sure Darrell Bevell designs an awe-fence (heh, I’m such a homer) that’ll take advantage of Tarvaris’ strengths and minimize his weaknesses.
If the o-line can gel at least a little bit, and the offense stays mostly healthy, I think it’ll be more productive than people think. There’s a lot more talent there, now. And it will be utilized heavily.
Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.
I think the key here is to have a positive TO ratio...
… And keep it up consistently, year-after-year.
HA HA
by goatweed on Aug 26, 2011 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Someone should do a good write-up of that. :)
(Sorry, just laughing at our propensity to argue about everything football related. I found both articles to be really informative.)
20ish times would be incredibly low
Even the most run heavy offenses in the league averaged about 30 passing attempts a game, which I think would be a good number for the Hawks to shoot for. However, to reach that number they’re going to have to prove that they can get a productive, consistent run game going.
Keeping the attempt number under 40
Is going to depend on a lot of things, of course. Like playing from behind, the run game sucking it up, and of course chewing the clock.
I like option 3 the best, we should just go with that one!
by SGT Lenny on Aug 26, 2011 8:01 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I would like to have Tom Brady.
Game managing, point guard like QB.
Maximizes the potential of the players around him, spreads the ball around to the open guy, makes good decisions, not constantly forcing the ball deep down the field into coverage.
If anyone would rather have someone who CAN’T manage a game, please line up for the Jamarcus Russell sweepstakes.
So...he doesn't want a game manager?
It’s kind of confusing if he uses the term differently from the general discourse. He can’t expect hoi polloi to adapt to his choice of words.
He wants a good QB and he doesn’t want to be forced to throw the ball 40 times a game. There’s not a whole lot of franchises that don’t feel the same way.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
To win with a game-manager at QB...
Don’t you have to have at least an average defense, let alone one that can win you games with it’s dominance? Epic FAIL is that’s the formula this year, anyway.
2011: Building the Trenches.
Really?
Before we suffered massive injuries on line through about first 5 games Hawks were top 5 in rush defense. We had a lot of issues in secondary and we have addressed some of those issues. With bigger more athletic corners should cut down on big plays. Younger faster. We will have to wait and see what kind of pressure we get on QBs this year.
I don’t think defense is going to be the concern this year. It will be scoring points and protecting QB until line solidifies, after that the Hawks will be running and passing and scoring.
by Bourbon Man on Aug 26, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Really?
We have an overly young secondary which always spells disaster, a Dline full of question marks and no depth, and an LB group no one should write home about. Our defense looks to be in for an atrocious year. But we might be decent at run defense. Yay.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 26, 2011 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
We were #2 in rush defense against the very worst rushing teams in the league.
http://17power.blogspot.com
And then 3/4 of our starting DL got AIDS
We signed Jay Richardson on a Wednesday and had him play a significant number of snaps that Sunday against the Giants. So there’s that.
Our run defense was probably pretty good during the first part of the year against pretty poor competition. Later in the year our run defense decline, but that probably had something to do with losing 3/4 of our starting DL and replacing them with guys like Kentwan Balmer. So there’s caveats all around.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Aug 26, 2011 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
And, it appears Cole will PUP first 6 weeks.
He was a key component of that good rush defense. (Did I just say Cole and ‘key component’? Holy schnikeys.)
2011: Building the Trenches.
He's not saying that being a "game manager" is the only requirement for the job.
I’m quite sure a strong arm, accuracy, and all the rest figure in there too. Look at the T.E. & W.R. corp, the investment in the O-line & some nice R.B.s . Hell yes he wants guy that can put those guy to work. Me too.
Yeah people keep reading it wrong.
“We want a guy that manages the offense really well,” doesn’t mean “We want a weak armed journeyman game manager.”
It's as much a message to TJ/CW to not try to do too much as anything else.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Aug 26, 2011 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Until O-line comes together moot point
Until this brand new line has time to come together it is going to be a lot of scrambling and running for his life. We really haven’t gotten a chance to see what this offense can or can’t do under Tarvaris as he has had not time and barely played with the first team WRs. He is mobile as hell which is big upgrade. He has a strong arm on him and he is young, again, big upgrade. Bevell better than Bates, upgrade. Rice upgrade. TE upgraded. Cornerbacks hopefully upgraded by size and talent over the always beaten Jennings.
It could be a rough year for us, but then again, it is the NFL and that means 8-8 or 9-7 is not inconceivable and winning the division and going to the playoffs again.
The O-line need time and time will tell.
I don't believe Bevell is 'better' than Bates.
He seems like he’s more equipped to be Cable’s punching bag, which is definitely what Pete was looking for. I wouldn’t have minded seeing Bates run the passing game instead.
by Stay Off the Flowers on Aug 26, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Bates
After spending two years with Bates it was clear to Pete that Jeremy wasn’t a fit. They differed drastically in terms of vision. Tree is NO WAY Seattle would be successful under Bates
by Scott Enyeart on Aug 26, 2011 11:42 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
5 YPA isn't game managing
It’s slow death.
by Harvey Manfrengenson on Aug 26, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My Take
To me a game manager is a QB who is efficient. He makes the most of the talent around him, the scheme in place for him, and the team across from him on gameday. So if he throws it 15 times a game or 50, it shouldn’t matter because consistency should be his strong suit. He would have the team in position to win with his play. A lot of the pass attempts variation could be due to how your defense is playing, personnel injuries, and weather conditions. Favre or Marino would throw even in a hurricane whereas game managers would not as much (ignoring other factors intentionally). Dilfer was not a game manager, he was along for the ride (and to handoff to Jamal Lewis).
by dudeitscool on Aug 26, 2011 1:00 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
"Game Managers"
I think the problem with the concept of managing a game is that it evokes the emotion of watching so-called “game managers” play. A game manager in the modern vernacular is another phrase for “quarterback who is winning, but we can’t really explain why, because, dodge-ram-it, he kinda sucks most of the time.”
Game management in the Carrollian sense (copyright me 2011) is more along the lines of “Guy who won’t lose you the game, and won’t often be asked to win you the game.” It’s what Bill Belichick expects of all of his players — “do your job.” If Jackson or Whitehurst can distribute the ball, set up the run, make plays with his feet, and, above all, protect the pigskin, he will be “doing his job.” Part of that, though, will also be finding Mike Williams in single coverage 30 yards downfield, hitting Tate in stride for Harvinian affect, etc etc. 5-yard dink and dunk down the field is more “Captain Checkdown” than "Game Manager.’
Great article, Scott!
Don't exactly agree
Carroll wants the fiercest competitor at the QB position. The player who’s going to do whatever it takes to win the game, who cares about nothing else but winning, especially his own ego. If that means handing off fifty times instead of trying to make yourself look glamorous, then that’s what the QB will do. But when the game’s on the line, you need someone you can count on, not someone who plays to not win.
When I think of the ultimate game manager I think (and maybe most people think) of someone like Dilfer. But when Carroll thinks of the ultimate game manager he thinks of Joe Montana. Big difference.
by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 27, 2011 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Bingo
Though many people would never call Montana a game manager, he is the ULTIMATE example of one to Carroll. Physically limited, struggled to get playing time at Notre Dame even, but knew how to maximize his talent and abilities.
by Scott Enyeart on Aug 27, 2011 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
If Tom Brady is on the other side of the field scoring 40 points...
…you’re going to need a hell of a lot more from your own quarterback than “just don’t lose us the game”. The modern NFL is a scoring race as much as it is a chess match these days.
http://17power.blogspot.com
Key phrase "get us into the best plays"
We want a guy that manages the offense really well, and can keep us moving and get us into the best plays, that allows whole team to function
By Manager he means that he wants a guy who’s smart enough to read the defense and make the right call at the line. If you can do that and play within your physical limitations you will be successful.
I think Hasselbeck was pretty good at the managing part but not so good about playing within his limitations. The biggest knock on Matt was that he would get frustrated and just throw it up there.
I think that Colt McCoy is going to be successful because he is this type of QB despite his limitations. Super competitive, smart and he doesn’t force throws he can’t make.
It's a lot better approach than just tanking every season until we find a "franchise QB."
Yes, Peyton Manning makes a crappy Colts team look good, and yes an elite pass rusher makes an otherwise ordinary front 7 look more fearsome. But having a lot of above average players at every position is another way to win, and it looks like that’s what they are trying to do. When a “good” QB comes along, they will get one I think. When I see what the Cards gave up for Kolb, I am happy we didn’t put our eggs in that basket. I’d rather we keep getting better and wait for the right opportunity.
The first key to game management in my book...
…play 4 down football. I know I’m a broken record on this, but a QB who gives you 5 YPA and a rushing game which averages you 3.7 is fine if you’re taking all 4 downs to gain yardage. Run on 3rd and 4 knowing you can run again on 4th and 1. Try to air it out on 2nd and 2 knowing that if you miss you get 2 chances, not 1, for short yardage goodness. And so on.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
Yes, that would be fine in a world with no incompletions, interceptions and runs for loss
I hope your post was satire, because you just described an 2 win team.
by Harvey Manfrengenson on Aug 27, 2011 5:44 AM PDT up reply actions
It's beyond argument that this is correct -
lots of studies have told us so. The problem is that coaches face a different set of incentives, namely to coach conventionally, so they can shift blame onto their players. The first guy to play a four-down offense is going to get fired after a few games if it isn’t successful, because it goes against conventional wisdom. If it works, on the other hand, everyone will do it.
by pacificsands on Aug 27, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
4 down offense
I heard the “father of the 4 down offense” speak at a coaches clinic, it’s nothing more than a gimmick that is suited for the HS level at best.
by Scott Enyeart on Aug 27, 2011 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions

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