TE John Carlson to IR, RT position open for competition
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 30, 2011 4:21 PM PDT
in Seahawks News & Rumors
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The Seahawks twitter feed lets us know John Carlson will have season-ending surgery on his shoulder, specifically to repair a torn labrum. He will be placed on IR and after one year on IR will hit the free agent market with his rookie contract served out.
This kills the dream of having Miller and Carlson both on the field at the same time, creating matchup nightmares, which is certainly a shame. Obviously, it is also a shame for John Carlson, and we wish him all the best in his recovery. "This sucks", to put it simply.
That said, from a team perspective it is not a catastrophe, we have been set enough at TE depth that many were suggesting trades or worried about cuts. Specifically, we have Zach Miller, last year's 6th-round potential steal Anthony McCoy (who had a really strong pre-season) and Dominique Byrd, a former USC player and 2006 3rd round pick. This is a group that looks pretty set for this season and seasons to come. Additionally, we have Cameron Morrah on PUP, another talented pass-catching TE. This injury does turn the Miller signing from a somewhat superfluous signing into a pretty damn fortunate one.
A second big piece of news from Pete Carroll's presser was that the RT position has been opened for competition, which makes sense given last game's performance and rotation. The current competition is between rookie 1st rounder James Carpenter and 2008 Packers 5th round pick Breno Giacomini, the early favorite for Jacson's Most Italian Name Ever award. Giacomini's experience gives him an edge over Carpenter, who is clearly struggling with the shortened off-season, and it might do Carpenter some good to learn from the bench for a bit if Giacomini wins the competition. In any case, it's not a hugely negative sign for Carpenter's career, so don't panic.
In a piece of good news, Pete Carroll let us know Russell Okung is "pretty close" to returning. "If [Friday] was the opener, he'd try to go this week." Great news.
Minor news: Marshawn Lynch (ankle) and David Hawthorne (knee) did not practice and won't play against the Raiders. Kam Chancellor (foot) did not practice but did run and is close to returning to the team.
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My wife is concerned that he won't be able to cuddle properly with his torn labrum..
She is putting him on her practice squad.
Any other threads you'd like to post this in?
Finally rid of perpetual losers Craig Terrill and Kelly Jennings!
Follow the llama tail
by Wayward Llama on Aug 30, 2011 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm concerned goatweed is posting this in so many threads he won't have time to cuddle properly
I’m putting him in my practice squad
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 30, 2011 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
The post to cuddle ratio is neither consitent nor a meaningful stat
We need to re-activate Vasilii from the practice squad and sit down this Beekers guy.
using advanced stats...
Beekers numbers have been inflated this preseason playing against 3rd string/fringe players.
Inevitably by week four fans will chant his name trying to get him some PT. I wish for the best, but expect the worst.
by SGT Lenny on Aug 30, 2011 8:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The backup writer is always the most popular guy on the team.
This being the one exception.
by banksta3 on Aug 31, 2011 2:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good idea for Carpenter
any potential sign to fill the rt position or do we have someone to fill that role sufficiently?
"Hey, I am blockin' over here." --Giacomini in his Italian accent
You got a problem?
by goatweed on Aug 30, 2011 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Nobody injure him or make him mad...
Because heads could roll, or people start disappearing.
by SGT Lenny on Aug 30, 2011 8:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
They spit fire when they eat flowers as well.
You are a racist for not remembering that.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Aug 30, 2011 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
they also double in height when eating magic mushrooms
And in later years can turn into bears, frogs… Italians get so wasted
by SGT Lenny on Aug 30, 2011 11:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Just like last year, I see the Seahawks making a few notable transactions as teams look to make their 53-man rosters.
It wouldn’t surprise me if we acquired a cut/about-to-be-cut player in the next week or so, not unlike Stacy Andrews, Raheem Brock and Junior Saivii. I think RT is our top priority now.
I dunno about that
Whoever plays RT wouldn’t be expected to play it an entire year, I’m thinking.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 30, 2011 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Why wouldn't Polumbas be moved to RT
with Okung’s return?
Not necessarily a better fit than Giacomini
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 30, 2011 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions
? is Giacomini known to be that good?
Polumbas has quite a few games under his belt and has done ok…
Troy might not be the run-blocker they want at RT
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Aug 30, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, this
Polumbus doesn’t play with a lot of power, I’ve never seen him drive well, and he’s susceptible to bull-rushing (more so than Carpenter).
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 30, 2011 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
That's an awfully nice defensive end you've got there...
Hate to see anything bad happen to him.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Aug 30, 2011 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
That's brutal for Carlson.
Sitting on IR for the last year of your contract isn’t exactly a good way to get your next big pay day.
Which makes me wonder
If we did end up nabbing Gurode, is there any possibility that he moves over to right guard and Unger stays at center to give Moffitt a bit more time to learn? I know Carpenter is the larger concern at the moment, but rooks are rooks. Thoughts?
It was just intense, and it was ball, and it was juice. The juice level in that room was high, and it was awesome.
by mister bunny on Aug 30, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Hard to say
But i do know that struggles at the tackle position stick out more than struggles at the guard position, at least in the eye test.
This isn't meant as a dig on Carl
but quickly skim through the article to your right titled “Newest Seahawk James Carpenter- My scouting Report” There are some legitimate knee slappers such as " Superior leverage blocker; just does not get pushed back, nor does his man get leverage on him". I was in stitches after reading that.
Why?
Because Carpenter hasn’t yet shown those skills so far doesn’t mean he won’t for his career. He showed skills in college that we liked and needs time to display them in the NFL. C’mon.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 30, 2011 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because now that the old punching bag has moved to Cincinnati a new one is needed
by B.B.Finnegan on Aug 30, 2011 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Regardless of whether we resign him or not(god i hope not)
I’ll still blame Craig Terrill.
by Jordinary on Aug 30, 2011 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep.
Finally rid of perpetual losers Craig Terrill and Kelly Jennings!
Follow the llama tail
by Wayward Llama on Aug 30, 2011 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't making a prediction
Just thought it was funny the thing that Just Doesn’t Happen to him is the thing we are all concerned about. I have a sense of humour.
Is that what we're all concerned about?
That didn’t seem nearly his biggest problem throughout three games.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 30, 2011 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Injuries hit at our strongest positional group, weird. I was looking forward to seeing Miller and Carlson both on the field too and now it might never happen.
I was just thinking that “Wow, with a shortened training camp and OTA’s we sure have been fortunate in the injury department” and now this :(
True, but better this than an injury in our weakest positional group(s).
It was just intense, and it was ball, and it was juice. The juice level in that room was high, and it was awesome.
by mister bunny on Aug 30, 2011 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure we'll hear about it.
In all caps, of course.
Finally rid of perpetual losers Craig Terrill and Kelly Jennings!
Follow the llama tail
by Wayward Llama on Aug 30, 2011 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, this sucks.
Finally rid of perpetual losers Craig Terrill and Kelly Jennings!
Follow the llama tail
Is it me, or am I a little excited now that McCoy and Byrd will get more PT?
I think both players have done more than just show up for preseason this year. Both have been standouts, with great route running, blocking, and catching everything in sight.
Carlson hasn’t been the same in 2 years, so I’m itching to see the young bucks get a shot.
It does suck all around, but I guess I’m looking at it from a different angle.
Ka-Kaaa!
Carlson has been the same, as in, really good
I don’t know if it’s realistic to think any of these other guys will be as good as him (except at blocking)
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 30, 2011 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
without a rt it wont really matter
the te’s will be offering additional protection. so it will be carlson 09 for whoever if we can’t shore up the line
It will depend on matchups
and I am sure Carpentar will improve enough by the end of the year to be adequate. the one good thing is it makes it easy what 3 TEs make the team and say hello to 2 FBs.
Respect goes a long way....
Blocking?
Did somebody say blocking? Cause we’re lacking some blocking over here.
by Stay Off the Flowers on Aug 30, 2011 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
You really think he's been the same, and that same has been really good?
I don’t. I think his rookie year was inflated by a team lacking other offensive alternatives. He’s so-so at best, at getting open by my eye. He’s been unable to capitalize on too many of the few opportunities he’s gotten the past 2 years, but I don’t think that reflects his capabilities, just luck and a poor offense with a QB that seemed to unreasonably lack trust in him.
When he does get open it’s quite a difference maker. He does a good job and I really like him. But I couldn’t possibly say he’s been really good. He’s shown some promise and we know of some external reasons beyond his control that have impeded his progress. Those reasons don’t account for the whole of why he hasn’t made expected progress.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Aug 31, 2011 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps a different valuation of good and great
Regardless, I don’t think Carlson’s level is guaranteed to the likes of McCoy or Byrd.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if I'm reading that properly.
You don’t think he’s guaranteed to stay at approximately their level? I still pretty solidly believe all three will have pretty solid careers. Unfortunately Carlson’s may not be with us, now. But I’ll root for him wherever he goes unless it’s intra-division.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Aug 31, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
No, I don't think they're guaranteed to reach his level
The original poster made it sound as if McCoy and Byrd would now be unleashed, but they’re pretty unproven and unsure prospects.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
When someone says "we know what we have with this guy, bring in new talented guys" it usually means the old guy is steady but the talented guys have a real shot at being better
Not the case here, I don’t think
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I see. Yeah I agree.
Both are less likely to reach the level that we saw of him in 2008, than he is. I agree with that and the general statement. I do have a lot of confidence in both, though. And, I have a lot of confidence in Cameron Morrah as well, moreso than McCoy.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Aug 31, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I like McCoy as a more versatile TE
Morrah seems similar to Carlson, as a WR/TE tweener.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, which is exciting to me.
Although now that we have Rice in the fold for some years, I don’t know what kind of role that truly is. Running team with two towers, needing quick release & moves guys like Tate & Obomanu to compliment all that. So now I’m realizing maybe that role won’t be as impactful for us, and maybe McCoy is a better fit, but as a player I like Morrah.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Aug 31, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I am a little excited about that as well.
Doesn’t make me feel better about the loss of Carlson, but either or both could turn into better players for us.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Aug 31, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
What really bums me about Carlson
Is that now he isnt trade bait. I was really banking on us shopping him for a 4th-5th rounder. So much for that!
On the other hand we might be able to bring him back next year on a contract that would be smaller than what he would have been expecting had he been able to play during his contract year.
by The Great Googly on Aug 30, 2011 5:49 PM PDT reply actions
I really like J.C.. I've got a big 12 flag w/his auto.
But for some reason this dose not feel like an "aw shit " moment .
I would figure he walks to start somewhere else
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 30, 2011 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder how comp picks work
for a player who was injured the previous year? Are they still giving comp picks does anyone know?
Respect goes a long way....
The comp pick is determined mostly by the new contract.
Previous performance doesn’t matter.
So if he gets a big contract from anyone, we should get a pick— except we seem to sign a lot of lower level players that will cancel it out.
The NFL comp system is complicated
as far as i know. They sort of add up who you lose and subtract who you sign and go from there. I just know it is not always as expected but I have never seen it on paper. Does anyone know the set formula?
Respect goes a long way....
It's never been made public.
There are number of factors that go into it and many of them can be put to together to make a pretty solid prediction. The link I posted above goes to Adamjt13, who has his own website about it and has been the most accurate over the last few years on predicting comp picks.
With the amount of money that we will have to spend next year to get up to the min cap level
I doubt that we will get much in the way of comp picks. Maybe not though. There are a lot of smoke and mirrors involved.
There is no cap floor next year
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 4:19 AM PDT up reply actions
It is, indeed, not until 2013
Article 12, Section 8-9 of the CBA
(a) In each of the 2011–12 League Years, there shall be Guaranteed LeagueWide Cash Spending of 99% of the Salary Cap multiplied by the number of Clubs in the
League during such League Year.
(b) For each of the four-League-Year periods from 2013–16 and 2017–20,
there shall be Guaranteed League-Wide Cash Spending of 95% of the Salary Caps for
such League Years for each such four-year period multiplied by the number of Clubs in
the League during each such period. (Appropriate adjustments will be made if the number of Clubs in the League increases during each such a four-year period.) (For example,
if the Salary Caps for the 2013–16 League Years were $100, 120, 130, and 150 million,
respectively, the Guaranteed League-Wide Cash Spending over that four-year period
would be $15.2 billion (95% of $500 million total Caps times 32 Clubs)).
(…)
a) For each of the following four-League Year periods, 2013–2016 and
2017–2020, there shall be a guaranteed Minimum Team Cash Spending of 89% of the
Salary Caps for such periods (e.g., if the Salary Caps for the 2013–16 and 2017–2020 are
$100, 120, 130, and 150 million, respectively, each Club shall have a Minimum Team
Cash Spending for that period of $445 million (89% of $500 million))
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Note the 2013-2020 "cap floor" is actually a cash floor averaged for two four-year periods
If you’re over one year, you can be under the next, as long as you’re straight at the end. If you’re not, you will have to pay out the missing amount to players (mechanic not described in detail). The hard cap floor is gone.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, the dark-skinned Mexican-sounding Aaron Hernandez
has dibs on being awesome over there.
by Stay Off the Flowers on Aug 30, 2011 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Hate to see the classy guys get injured, but such is the cruel world of pro football
It sucks that there’s a really good chance we don’t see him in Seahawk blue again
Apparently Pete Carroll doesn’t like how Charlie Whitehurst holds a clipboard
Can't really say I expected much from Carpenter in year 1 especially with the almost non existent offseason
For those people out there who know what they’re talking about when it comes to offensive linemen: How difficult is it to switch from LT to RT technique wise. Can it account for some of Carpenter’s slowness in dropping back and qpparent lack of balance?
Apparently Pete Carroll doesn’t like how Charlie Whitehurst holds a clipboard
Tom Cable on the OL (via Doug Farrar):
Today after practice, Seahawks line coach Tom Cable pointed out that not all protections have been used in preseason…
“…We have not set out to help anybody yet. We want to find out really what we’re capable of, what our true weaknesses/strengths are…”
“You could get into a chip-game and use the tight end and do some of those things but it’s not been a point of emphasis yet…”
“We need to find out really who we are and I think after Saturday, we got a pretty good idea in a negative way.”Not sure about that strategy — Mike Tice went into the 2010 preseason with limited protections and it really affected CHI line early on.
Seemed like it took about half the season before everyone was in sync; linemen need time to get the schemes. That’s what’s going on, though.
https://twitter.com/SC_DougFarrar
(Inner blockquote is Cable, outer blockquote is Farrar).
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Aug 30, 2011 9:32 PM PDT reply actions
Also, Doug's tip put a Lynden man on Deadspin
So a Lynden, Washington man decided to get back at the bees—one of them stung his friend—by teaching them a fiery lesson…
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Aug 30, 2011 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
This could have a lot of different meanings
Tough to tell when you don’t really know what their schemes are.
Really?
Because, honestly, this is the most “let’s give the coach/FO time to see what they can do” offseason I’ve seen in a very long time.
Definitely agree- I don't think stressful is necessarily negative
But the amount of turmoil we’ve seen and curveballs thrown our way over the past 4 weeks is insane.
Does your memory stretch back to last offseason?
This site was Lord of the Flies.
by lemonverbena on Aug 31, 2011 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I registered with FG in week 5 or 6 last season
It has been both a positive and negative influence on my blood pressure
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Learn JiuJitsu.
Always looking for that new danger.
Let's still keep one FB
But move Konz back to TE for 4 then give all some playing time, cut one when Morrah is back (if he doesn’t go on IR).
by dudeitscool on Aug 31, 2011 4:00 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Golden Tate
So we aste a 2nd round pick last season on a 5’ 10" WR who didn’t impress at all last season and looks lost this season. Rumors are he will be released but most likely he will be traded or #5 or 6 on the depth chart behind BMW, Rice, Ben O, Baldwin and Butler is better when he comes off the pup and they like Durham. One thing we need is a Draft Guru to help us come Draft Day Curry, Tate, Lawrence Jackson, Kelly Jennings…. I know I am going to get pummelled about bad mouthing Tate but come on he will never be Wes Welker, he will never be a #3WR and his return skills have not impressed me either. Just my $0.02 this morning
There are no credible rumors he will be released
Just Clayton speculating he might be because “oh man that Seahawks front office sure is crazy hyuk hyuk”
Why would you compare Tate to Wes Welker? No, he will never be Wes Welker. That might be because they have completely different skillsets?
I can’t wait to get to the 53 so we can get done with this shit about Tate.
Also Butler is in no way a better WR talent than Golden Tate. Though oddly enough people weren’t calling for his head after his 15-catch rookie season.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 5:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Can Tate play right tackle?
But seriously, people who are calling for Tate to be released are basically being “reply baits”. Hmm… now that I read it, the whole comment by “BestDJINFL” is a reply bait.
Let's say he busts, and Tate is a wasted pick
Okung
Thomas
Chancellor
Leon Washington
Walter Thurmond
and that is just for starters. hard to say we have a talent evaluation issue, and dredging up Ruskell mistakes hardly proves the point.
by Harvey Manfrengenson on Aug 31, 2011 6:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Judging the draft acumen of a FO that has all of two drafts under its belt is kind of an exercise in folly
Drafts shouldn’t be judged until the class closes on their third year, ideally. Sometimes you can get in a bit earlier, like it’s a fairly sure thing the 2009 Seahawks class isn’t pretty.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 6:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Judging the draft acumen of a FO that has all of two drafts under its belt is kind of an exercise in folly
Drafts shouldn’t be judged until the class closes on their third year, ideally. Sometimes you can get in a bit earlier, like it’s a fairly sure thing the 2008 Seahawks class isn’t pretty.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Aug 31, 2011 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions
2008? Naw. 2008 is awwwwright. Giggity.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 6:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Lo-Jack kills the reputation of that draft
I am glad they found the right spot/responsibility for Red.
You could do worse with the 28th pick than LoJax
A two-year middling-to-crappy starter and then recouping a tiny bit of value. I’ve seen worse from late-1st rounders.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 31, 2011 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure that's well below the 50th percentile, though, especially for a non-skill position.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Aug 31, 2011 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions
We needed somebody on the DL that year.
The choice was Lo-Jack or Kentwan, we picked Lo-Jack. Now we know, either one would have sucked for us.
Picking for need in the first round = bad idea.
Especially in the mid or higher part of the 1st. Get the most talented guy available. If that results in too much skill at one position, it’s not a bad situation to be in. You can rotate guys out or develop a game plan to get everyone involved.
Then again, I am no GM and if memory serves both of those guys were legitimately rated highly by the scouts, so it wasn’t like the Hawks were reaching that badly.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Aug 31, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
It's good news the competition is opened up at RT.
Not because of anything about Carpenter, but because I continue to like the coaching response from this staff. It’s good.
Should they continue to stick with him, he’ll have earned it. And should they have always stuck with him without opening up competition to Giacomini, I can easily see there could be a vast difference in a regular season game to what we saw. Game planning, help, and play-calling response to pressure. It felt drastic and could have still been really bad in the regular season but it also could have turned out to be fine regardless.
Head of catering.
I agree with your first line completely.
This front office and coaching staff consistently pass the common sense test. They don’t get lost in football cliches or the old way of doing things.
I can deal with losing seasons so long as the moves being made and the coaching philosophy makes simple, basic, everyday common sense. As a fan, there’s nothing more infuriating than loving a franchise and being powerless to change it as the powers-that-be make “WHAT THE HOLY FUCK?!?!?!” decisions. Apart from Bates going and Bradley staying, these guys haven’t baffled me with idiotic moves, and it’s extremely refreshing. I trust them to diagnose problems and recognize opportunities, then make good decisions based on those observations.
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