Seahawks News and Rumors, Free Agency Open Thread 8/7
by Danny Kelly on Aug 7, 2011 11:12 AM PDT
in Seahawks News & Rumors
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PrintStill pretty quiet out there but a few things worth noting.
-- New York's Kevin Boss replacement, Ben Patrick, decided to retire suddenly, which leaves the Football Giants in need of a tight end. Cue John Carlson trade rumors.
-- Mike Sando reported, and Eric Williams confirmed, that Roy Lewis, Cameron Morrah, Colin Cole, and Deon Butler started training camp on the Physically Unable to Perform list for the Seahawks. This means, per Williams, that they cannot play in preseason games until they pass a physical with the team.
-- Mike Robinson, per multiple sources, is up to 240 lbs, a 20 pound gain or so from last season. This should help him in lead blocking and hopefully help him stay healthier this season. I really, really like this development -- I like Michael Robinson as a versatile special teams guy and someone that can throw the ball occasionally out of the wildcat. Twenty extra pounds makes him that much better as a fullback.
-- Free agent S Dashon Goldson is visiting the Patriots today, per Greg Bedard. John Clayton sparked rumors that he could or should be on the Hawks radar, but so far I haven't seen anything that suggests they are.
-- Ray Willis signed with the Dolphins. Sean Locklear signed with the Redskins.
-- Per Dan Pompei of the National Football Post, "The Seahawks did not get rid of Lofa Tatupu because they thought he could no longer play. They got rid of him because he no longer fit in their defense. Many believe Tatupu, at 6-0, 250, can only play middle linebacker in a 4-3 scheme. The Seahawks want to be more versatile with their front this year, and plan on morphing in and out of a three man front. Tatupu isn't the guy to do that with."
Interesting, if true. The Hawks are getting bigger on the defensive line, picking up Alan Branch, a 338 pound DT/DE, and retaining Junior Siavii, who, according to Pete Carroll, is up to 340 pounds coming into camp (from a 315 listing last season). Will be something to watch in preseason.
Talk, discuss, confer, converse...
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I don't know where Pompei is getting this from
We used 3-DL looks a lot last year and the LB we want in in those situations was always a smart cover-capable guy, either Tatupu, Herring or both.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
Yeah doesnt make much sense
I really think it was mostly just about the contract restructuring.
by The Great Googly on Aug 7, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I agree that Pete probably wants to get bigger/faster/younger at MLB. I also think he wants to head to a model where the LB is more fungible (as has been discussed repeatedly). But to say that Lofa didn’t fit the defense from a scheme point of view…bit of a stretch.
No wait, that’s totally true. PCJS want a Mike that is intelligent, can play in coverage, and thump the RB…Lofa has never been able to do any of those things.
"Never been able to do any of those things"?
Lofa is one of the more intelligent, instinctive football players around. Until recently, he was also excellent in coverage, which is why he was a 3 down backer. Not a true thumper, so you got one of the three right…
He was being sarcastic
Remember to use your sarcasm font C-Raig.
This is really what is has come to, isn't it.
Maybe in real life we’ll have to start holding up our index finger when we make dry comments.
I think I know enough of hate/ To say that for destruction Rice/ Is also great/ And would suffice.
by shams on Aug 7, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Logged in to say the same.
Thanks for covering this already.
I don't believe in the sarcasm font.
Natural selection and all that.
by DJ C-Raig on Aug 7, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
I believe he means
Evolve or die.
learn to read between the lines or, in other words, read at an 8th grade level.
that said, lofa really hasn’t done the pass coverage part in the past two years.
by vertigoman on Aug 7, 2011 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Chirp was joking too.
Man this is too much sarcasm. Can’t keep it straight anymore.
I believe in using it only when you are actually being serious
or else in other non-sarcastic situations such as this one
They don't watch seattle a lot
they just like to make people think they do
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Aug 7, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
He cites Lofa's size as an indicator that he no longer fits
while neglecting to mention that Lofa’s replacement is virtually the same size.
"Out of bounds you stupid guy!"
by Modrik Zutar on Aug 7, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Lofa listed as 6'0" 250lbs on NFL.com
Hawthorne listed as 6’0" 246lbs
"Out of bounds you stupid guy!"
by Modrik Zutar on Aug 7, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, we used a lot of 3-4 looks last year
in addition to the 3-man fronts on passing downs, but its possible that we may be moving towards more of a 3-4 this year. This FA period has shown that the remake didn’t end in 2010.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Aug 7, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
We didn't add a lot of building blocks this year
Our biggest defensive addition, Mebane, isn’t much of a 3-4 fit.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 7, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
True
and I don’t trust the Seahawks knowledge of national reporters, but I think there is some truth to the matter that Tatupu doesn’t much fit into the 3-4-style front we’re building.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Aug 7, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Trading a small MLB for an even smaller MLB
Doesn’t make much sense. I’m going to stick with the fact, he’s been hurt the past few years. Also I don’t know if any of our other linebackers are good in coverage.
ah the infamous turf toe
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Aug 7, 2011 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
So what happens if he doesn't retire
Shows up, and half-asses it while participating in the bare minimum? He would still get paid until they cut him, correct?
I don't see why he doesn't do it.
However, he would have to face the ire from his teammates, something I am sure he doesn’t want to do.
Yes, that would be out of character for him
Of course, this whole situation is out of character for him but having watched him over the years I can’t imagine he’d intentionally mess with the players and fans of that team when his battle is with the owner. Likely he just stays away and hopes Dalton looks so good Brown feels compelled to get some kind of compensation for Palmer.
"Out of bounds you stupid guy!"
by Modrik Zutar on Aug 7, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
So his option is get paid millions of dollars
or have some of the Cincinnati Bengals players like him? Easy choice for me. But then again, I can be a jerk sometimes.
It's beneath his dignity at this point.
Mike Brown is a crazy girlfriend. You just can’t engage with her shit.
I think I know enough of hate/ To say that for destruction Rice/ Is also great/ And would suffice.
You can if your pimp hand is strong.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Always looking for that new danger.
by RolloTomasi on Aug 7, 2011 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even if we were able to trade for him before the regular season
I think it would take a month or two for the offense to get on track. That seems like a pretty big loss, considering that he may only have 2-3 years left in him.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Aug 7, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
If we do get Palmer
Then there’s a fairly good shot that we’d win the division with decent play. I would love/hate that in trying to get another QB next year.
But i wonder if he does show up if they’ll just release him instead of taking the cap hit.
I think Clayton has this one nailed
He suggests Palmer sits out this entire year, then shows up next year with “OK, I’m ready to play for you now!” By then, Dalton would presumably be the entrenched starter and the Bengals wouldn’t want to have CP’s $11.5 Million sitting on their cap, no matter how badly Mike Brown wants to make a point. Then the Hawks can make a play for him or not depending on a) how well Jackson plays and/or b) what their draft position is in regards to next year’s QB class.
Would we want Palmer at that point, though?
Seems kinda silly trading for a 32-year-old quarterback when we’re supposedly rebuilding.
How will you spend YOUR Sundays now?
Impossible to tell now....
I think the only way we are interested next year is if we have the kind of year where we are
competitive enough to lose out on a high draft position, yet Jackson plays poorly enough that it’s clear the only thing we need to contend is a good QB.
Honestly I don’t see that happening. Which is why I don’t believe Palmer will ever be a Seahawk. I think we either get a franchise-type QB in next year’s draft, or Jackson plays well enough for us to be competitive in the interim.
nu-uh
It was just intense, and it was ball, and it was juice. The juice level in that room was high, and it was awesome.
by mister bunny on Aug 7, 2011 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Bengals Front Office & Common Sense
Reside in opposite corners of the room. This time in 2009 they turned down a couple of first round picks for Ochocinco.
Trade
With the Giants losing their starting Tight End to retirement and the team looking to trade Osi Umenyiora for a first-round pick, how about the Hawks sending them John Carlson and a second-round pick for Umenyiora??
No thank you
Osi wants Charles Johnson money, and may or may not have a bad knee. It’s too much to commit to a guy turning 30 soon.
I don't want to lose our 2nd round pick for Osi
We aren’t realistically Superbowl contenders, rather we are in a rebuilding phase. Giving up high draft picks for Osi mortgages our future for the present, which only makes sense if we are close to making a serious run. Vegas has us as the least likely team to win one of the worst divisions in football. Osi can be dominant, I just don’t want to pay the cost he would require for the short term value.
Let's be fair though...
…Vegas odds are not based on what they think is the most likely result (except when they originally set the odds), they’re based on wherever they need to set them so that an equal number of people pick each team. The Seahawks are rated low because,, for whatever reason, more fans/bettors are betting money on the Cardinals or the 49ers than our guys. That could be because of market forces, or it could just be a lot of wishful thinking. ISTR Intrade being like 60/40 in favor of McCain in the 2008 presidential elections (I don’t bring this up to talk politics, just to point out an instance where people voting with their (presumed) hearts didn’t help their pocketbook).
The thing is, I can’t even look at these teams and think “well, hey, if everything goes down the right way I can see them finish 12-4 and kicking all kinds of ass into the Super Bowl”. The Rams I could make a case for. It would involve Bradford playing way better than I think he has the potential to play, but it’s there. I honestly don’t see how one can make that case for a 49ers team who, yes, has a new coach but who is also cleaning a LOT of house, and the Cardinals, who have not done much outside of giving up an awful lot for a QB whose career to date screams “replacement level”.
FWIW I can see this a little bit with the Seahawks, and I don’t think it’s all homerism either; while I think the most likely result is that Jackson/CJ turn out to be sub-mediocre and lead the team to 6 or 7 wins, there is at least the chance that all the talent that PC has amassed around them will cause one of them to step up their game. So even if my 50th percentile for the Rams is 8 wins to 6.5 for Seattle and maybe 6 for Arizona, I think Seattle actually stands a better chance of winning the Super Bowl (still a very low chance, don’t get me wrong) than either other opponent.
Fair enough and well written
But does your gut tell you we are close enough to the SB to trade a 2nd or 3rd and Carlson for Osi? Mine sure doesn’t – the risk reward equation doesn’t work for me.
No way.
By “we have the best chance” I think we have like a 5% chance to win the Super Bowl where nobody else has more than a 1-2% chance. Getting a Umenyiora might up the chances to 6-7%, and that’s being charitable.
Forget Osi.
Just wait till NY is desperate enough to cough up a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Carlson.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
What ever happened to Jim Sorgi
Hes been backing up Mannings for years, he has to be somewhat knowledgeable
P.C./J.C. if you are out there please don't. No Osi .
Two big pieces of our future for a DE that turns 30 in November . That’s a Ruskell or Mora move
Look, n00b, when people say JS they mean Johnny Slick.
get it straight
It's Pete Christ / Jesus Carol -- a new incarnation of our Lord
It was just intense, and it was ball, and it was juice. The juice level in that room was high, and it was awesome.
by mister bunny on Aug 7, 2011 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
er...Carroll
It was just intense, and it was ball, and it was juice. The juice level in that room was high, and it was awesome.
by mister bunny on Aug 7, 2011 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay the biggest thing about trading for Osi,
to me anyway, is if we give the Giants a really solid tight end, our defense is in a much tougher spot against them when we play them this year!! Seriously, whatever Carlson would bring in a trade is not worth the swing from a win to a loss.
"It was a dream come true to be the quarterback in Seattle; Bigger and better than anything I could have dreamed of." -Matthew Hasselbeck
I'd like some more depth at this point.
I think our starting offense/defense is acceptable at this point (I don’t see any obvious upgrades around the league), so I think we need to be hunting for players to keep for injury insurance and such.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.
Who is our starting LB core at this point?
Curry-Hawthorne-Hill? It sounds solid actually
by insidetheparker on Aug 7, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Curry-Hawthorne-Hill.
I’m done with Curry if he doesn’t preform this year.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.
It's my understanding
that Curry played his role pretty well in the system? He is on the strong side and supposed to force everything to the weakside for the WILL to clean up. If that’s our scheme than Curry is just vastly overpayed (b/c of the past regime) and is doing his part.
by insidetheparker on Aug 7, 2011 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasn't Curry known as a coverage linebacker coming out of college?
It could be me being mistaken, the year Curry was drafted was the first year I seriously watched football, so I didn’t really remember that draft.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.
He was put out in space quite a bit at Wake, yes
Skill didn’t transfer well to the NFL
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 7, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
That sounds solid?
Someone still to prove himself, a player out of position and someone who didn’t play for a year with no depth behind them sounds solid to you?
For real guys. Even on offense we have questions on the offensive line and nothing good at quarterback.
Defense? Even beside the linebacking situation, the defensive line has a proven 1-tech and leo end next to an injury-prone 5-tech and unproven 3-tech. In the secondary we have Earl Thomas and not much else, a lot of talent but nothing proven.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 7, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, we're not exactly superbowl contenders.
We shouldn’t be making moves for proven veterans that come at an expensive price, we should get as much talent as we want. This team has a bright future if all goes to plan, but that’s the risk of rebuilding.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.
Yes
I like the rebuilding plan, I’m a bit wary of people having high expectations for this year.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 7, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we've improved from last year
I’m not expecting playoffs but I think it’s possible. For me, I think 7 wins is about right.
by insidetheparker on Aug 7, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
High expectations in August are often the best part of a season...
…what is there to be wary of? We all know where the holes are, T-jax isn’t a pro-bowler but I can name 10 teams whom I don’t envy for their 2011 QB situation. Our o line is young, but at least they’re talented and healthy, last season was all re-treads and guys with no knees left all over the field and we took the division and finished with an exclamation point. At 7-9 they proved both the optimists and pessimists right somehow. I feel really optimistic, but I still think 8-8 would take a miracle.
August is for reveling in potential, realizing the harsh cold realities of the NFL can wait until week 2 in Pittsburgh.
by Fumanchuchu on Aug 7, 2011 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know I know
I just can’t suppress my natural instinct. I look out here on Field Gulls, I see all these happy, smiling faces, and I just have to stomp down on each and everyone of them.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 7, 2011 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Ten teams with equally bad or worse QB situations?
Panthers, Vikings, Redskins, Bengals for sure. Miami, Oakland maybe. Who else?
I think I know enough of hate/ To say that for destruction Rice/ Is also great/ And would suffice.
If he meant 2011 specifically, you can chalk the Titans up onto that list.
It’s hard to call Alex Smith or a rookie Kaepernick enviable (in my opinion). I don’t know enough to form my own opinion, but I know a lot of people aren’t believers in Fitzpatrick. Denver has more talent at the position but I would want no part of that cluster fuck.
I like our LB corp, but I would never say solid.
I like the idea of this SS/LB we’re running. If it works out: great. If not, I don’t mind experimenting the year before an allegedly deep QB class. If our DBs are Hawks, our DEs are Leos, and our DTs are Elephants, our LBs should be Wolves.
It was in an interview - I could probaby find it - just read/saw it yesterday I think.
I don’t know any better – just repeating what I thought I heard.
Because he always played ILB doesn't mean he's the best fit for MLB for us
He’s a quick and sure tackler, which is what we want out of the Will. What we want out of the Mike is someone who can read the offense, cover in space, read-and-react, play in traffic more than the Will, and generally lead the defense.
Physical deficiencies aside Tatupu is pretty close to what Pete wants out of a MLB, which just makes perfect sense. Heater is mostly just a tackling machine, which is good for other systems, especially ILBs in the 3-4, but will take some adjusting from us.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 7, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
That was my impression, which is why I was pleasantly surprised to hear his claim that he felt more comfortable in the middle.
Hopefully it works out.
I'm vaguely hoping he's grown a bit and improves at the spot
Surer tackling in trade for lesser coverage/reading skills is not the best trade-off. I don’t expect Heater to do badly, not as an individual player, and not stat-wise, but the system might suffer more from it. That kind of change is harder to spot, especially for casual pundits, but it’s pretty important.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 7, 2011 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I just think Pete wants this defense to be younger, faster and more agile.
That defines Curry, Heater, Wright, Smith….it’s been awhile since Hill has been on the field, but he’s always been a big hitter when healthy. Who that doesn’t define is Tatupu, who not-so-surprisingly isn’t here anymore.
Considering the amount of cap space we still have, the only reason I can think of that we didn’t bolster our defense more is that the Seahawks have brought in a lot of younger guys (except for Clemons and Brock) and Pete wants to build the defense “from the ground up.” He wants to give the rookies are real opportunity to start in the enar future.
But that still doesn’t explain why we didn’t peruse Jonathan Joseph more…..we could have signed him for more than Houston gave him and cut Trufant, and we’d be younger and more talented at corner. Those moves still would have left us with less cash than now, but JJ would have been worth it.
Pundits that don't bother to do any legwork on lesser-known teams
Most national pundits, in other words
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 8, 2011 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions
We ran more right than left last year
Ran best off right guard (8th in the NFL) and right tackle (10th in the NFL) too.
Totally different line now. It depends on what part gels. We’ll certainly not starting running behind the rookies, if Moffitt even is a day-one starter
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 7, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Won't we run on the TE side
Provided that we only have 1 TE on the field? I realize that we ran away from the TE side with Jones/Futch.
TEs shift, but yes
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Aug 7, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
The play action off the 2-TE set is something I'm looking forward to.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.
True -- lots of weapons and options in that formation
It’s been a while (2005-6) since I’ve been this excited about the offense.
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