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The Key to the Seahawks Offense: Beating Pressure

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Football savant-in-chief Greg Cosell on the Seahawksfrom back in August:

"Look, I gotta tell you, and I'm not defending Tarvaris Jackson, this is a really bad o-line. It is an incredibly slow offense, it's a bad match of quarterback and wide receivers. Mike Williams and Sidney Rice are big bodies that don't separate well, and Jackson is the type of quarterback that's not willing to make tight, contested throws.

So you've got a very bad mix of quarterback and wide receiver, you also have a very bad match of a rookie right side of the o-line, and a quarterback with little pocket command or timing who tends to hold the ball. So this is an offense that has a LOT of issues."

This was never more apparent than during the Seahawks first half of action on Sunday against the 49ers. The offensive line was bad. The offense set up slowly and plays failed to develop. Tarvaris Jackson refused to throw the ball into tight windows, mostly. 

People rightly began to panic a little bit. 37 total yards of offense in the opening half. Danny O'Neil put together a piece yesterday talking about how Tom Cable has tried to warn us that things will look ugly to start with. Cable told us, back in the beginning of August: 

"I keep saying, if you hear me, the system has to kind of start in infancy and grow just like we all do as humans."

We heard it. Some of us didn't really listen. This offensive line did not hit the ground running. The new names look good on paper but in reality haven't played together enough to be effective. Robert Gallery was out. James Carpenter started at a position he's never played. Breno Giacomini and John Moffitt were starting their first NFL games.

Exacerbating this problem with the offensive line is Tarvaris Jackson's style of play. We've talked about it a little bit here before but Sunday's first half was the rude awakening that Thomas and I have been trying to prepare you for. The first half confirmed what we'd been afraid of -- he tended to hold the ball too long, he refused to pass into tight windows. His pocket presence was poor. He failed to take off running when he probably should have, and took off running when he probably should have stuck in the pocket.

The first half was brutal. I took some notes on all of the 'pressures' that Tarvaris took. Some of them were on the offensive line, but some of them were on Jackson. Almost invariably, he throws jump-passes when faced with pressure. This is disconcerting for me. Here's a look.

Star-divide

-- Pressure #1: 3rd and 8 from Seahawks 26YL, 13:30 1st Quarter:

Breno Giacomini blows a block through the B gap on Ray McDonald at his inside shoulder, John Moffitt picks up the linebacker coming through the A gap, and McDonald gets through the line easily. Tarvaris Jackson backpedals and throws a jump-pass to Ben Obomanu complete for 7 yards. This was bad protection on the line, but Jackson managed to get the pass off quickly to Obomanu. I wish he wouldn't jump-pass. 

Pressure__1b_mediumPressure__1_medium

-- Pressure #2: 3rd and 8 from 49ers 40YL. 9:53 1st Quarter:

Tarvaris starts in the shotgun, ball is snapped. Justin Smith gets around James Carpenter to his left, Max Unger slides over to help out, and Smith collapses the pocket. Tarvaris Jackson tries to slide through the collapsed pocket but Ray McDonald grabs his jersey and pulls him down for a sack.

Pressure__2_medium

Two things, Tarvaris hung on to the ball too long here, and should have taken off running. That's not what Pete Carroll wants though.

Per Eric Williams:

"And as far as Tarvaris Jackson getting out of the pocket, scrambling and making plays with his feet, Carroll said he's asked his quarterback to remain patient in the pocket under the constant pressure he's under.

"We've had conversations about that, and we'd like to stay with it as long as he can," Carroll said. "The thing that can work at quarterback is, when you're getting a lot of pressure, your clock can speed up a bit. And we're trying to make sure that doesn't happen as we try and settle it all down here. And he's been poised and done a very nice job. He's really unflappable on the field. I feel like it's a very strong characteristic that we're going to need for awhile here as we're building, and getting these guys strong up front. He gives us a chance to really hang tough in there.""

Regardless, in this case, he probably should have taken off running here instead of trying to step up through the gap, as he had a lot of green in front of him. Announcer John Lynch rides Tarvaris for holding on to the ball too long, but as you can see, Zach Miller and Justin Forsett aren't looking for the ball. It's tough to decide who's to blame on this play. The pocket collapsed quickly but it looks like he could have made a play with his feet.

-- Pressure #3: 3rd and 2 from Seahawks 33YL 5:59 1st Quarter:

Seahawks in a two tight end, two receiver set here. Golden Tate goes in motion left prior to the snap and ends up on top of Anthony McCoy and Zach Miller in a diamond formation tight left. McCoy and Miller run into each other 5 yards downfield in what may have been a broken play, but regardless both are completely covered up.

Jackson doesn't see this quick enough, and by the time he looks left to find a wide open Golden Tate in the flats, Justin Smith has spin-moved his way home for a sack. The announcer - John Lynch, again talks about how this one's on Tarvaris, and how he needs to get rid of the football faster. I agree.

Pressure__3_a_mediumPressure__3b_mediumPressure__3c_medium

-- Pressure #4: 3rd and 10 from Hawks 2YL, 2:11 1st Quarter:

This isn't a pressure so much as it's just a conscious decision not to throw the ball to your receivers. Attached screenshots.

Pressure__4a_medium

It's a play action fake to Lynch. On the left flank, Mike Williams has screened off Zach Miller's man quite well as he goes to the middle of the field on a comeback route, and as Miller runs an out-route. 

Tarvaris pump fakes to Mike Williams, wisely deciding not to throw it to him, but inexplicably doesn't even look at Miller, who is open, being trailed by a linebacker, and has a lot of green in front of him.

Jackson then takes off running to the right and gains 5 yards on a 3rd and 10. Just throw the damn ball.

Pressure__4b_medium

-- Pressure #5: 3rd and 9 from Hawks 15YL, 13:06 2nd Quarter:

Hawks convert this but I include it because Jackson gets hit as he makes the throw. James Carpenter gets beat by Justin Smith and John Moffitt gets pushed back into the pocket by Ray McDonald.

This one is all on the offensive line and Tarvaris does a good enough job to get the ball to Doug Baldwin on another jump-pass, who makes a diving catch. Stop jump-passing.

-- Pressure #6: 1st and 10 from Hawks 27 YL. 12:28 2nd Quarter:

This one is on Anthony McCoy (I assume, unless it was a miscommunication). McCoy misses a block, DE Harrelson comes in from the blindside and demolishes Jackson, who fumbles and the ball is recovered by the 49ers. This one is on the offensive line, definitively.

Pressure__5a_mediumPressure_5b_medium

-- Pressure #7: 3rd and 12 from Hawks 18 YL: 2:00 2nd Quarter:

Jackson in the shotgun, ball snapped. Breno Giacomini gets walked back into the pocket with a hand in his face, practically pushing his helmet off. I'm not entirely sure if this is legal? Either way, it collapses the pocket enough.

Jackson steps up through the pocket and throws a jump-pass 15 yards downfield that falls incomplete. The protection on this play is definitely prohibitive, but enough with the jump passes please.

This pressure is on the line - it clearly didn't give Jackson enough time to let the play develop downfield. At least the Seahawks went for the first down.

----------------

So that was the first half. The good news? The second half got a LOT better. Why? Several reasons, but I'd say principle among them was that Jackson finally settled in and started to look more comfortable. He faced 3 or 4 real 'pressures' but none of them were as ugly as what we saw in the first half.

He also faced less pressure because he got the ball out quicker. He made some passes into tight windows. You saw him drop back, "one .. two.. three" pass. "One.. two" pass. This is good. I'm not expecting him to never take sacks, but what we saw in the first half cannot be attributed purely to the offensive line. We must understand that Jackson and his line are inextricably linked and their respective strengths and weaknesses play off of each other.

I'm not sure what adjustments were made at the half but once Jackson started making some quick throws and trusting his receivers the offense started moving the ball, ... hell - they opened up by throwing a few deep balls to Ben Obomanu and Golden Tate (overthrew Tate unfortunately, would have been six). Amazing how the run game then started getting some traction (9 defensive men in the box seems to hurt the run game). It was non-existent in the first half because Jackson was simply refusing to throw the ball. 

Back to the Cosell quote:

"Mike Williams and Sidney Rice are big bodies that don't separate well, and Jackson is the type of quarterback that's not willing to make tight, contested throws."

This was very, very true in the first half (Rice was out, but Williams wasn't targeted enough, that's for sure). In the second half, Jackson improved. He made some tight throws. He targeted Williams on out-routes a few more times. I'm unsure how Jackson will look this week, but at least he improved on that in the 2nd half. 

"So you've got a very bad mix of quarterback and wide receiver, you also have a very bad match of a rookie right side of the o-line, and a quarterback with little pocket command and timing who tends to hold the ball."

Make no mistake, I'm not telling you that this is a good o-line (yet... let me stress YET). What I'm saying is that the way Jackson plays, at times, severely exacerbates the offensive line's problems. In my view, Jackson needs to trust his receivers more, and get the ball out quicker. I'm not saying to force things, but find a happy medium where you take some chances and use your receivers to their strengths. 

Bevell could help this by calling more plays that develop faster. Throw it downfield once in a while to keep the defense honest. If you're going to mix in a few slow-developing plays, the good news was that Jackson was actually pretty good on a few screens. He tossed a couple tear drops - first to Marshawn Lynch early in the first quarter (who dropped it) and Justin Forsett later in the game (who picked up 8).

I'm not trying to be morose. I do think this offense will get better as the year goes on. I think the Hawks will game-plan in some things to beat pressure more adequately. The line will take a while (a season? longer?) to really come together but there are some things the Seahawks can do to improve in the short run, and it all starts with Tarvaris Jackson. 

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If these were all the first half pressures

I’m okay with Unger name not being brought up that much. Looks like he didn’t help things much in pressure #6, but I don’t really remember him doing anything egregious during the game either.* At least we have that going for us, which is nice.

*However I only had one TV-speed live viewing of the game, so maybe I missed a blunder or two of his.

by SgtSasquatch on Sep 15, 2011 12:09 PM PDT reply actions  

I read this head line as:

The key to beating the Seahawks offense: Bringing pressure.

Had to do a double take.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Sep 15, 2011 12:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Really nice breakdown. Great job.

I’m going to repeat this bit here, because it might get lost a little bit and I think it’s really important:

And as far as Tarvaris Jackson getting out of the pocket, scrambling and making plays with his feet, Carroll said he’s asked his quarterback to remain patient in the pocket under the constant pressure he’s under.

The things that this offense is doing now are not things that will help this offense win games now, but may help it win games in the future. TJ seems to be on a very tight leash (“don’t take chances, don’t run, take the sack instead of risking an int”) and willing to take a ton of punishment in order to build the team for the future. This offense, right now, is more about training the OL and preventing turnovers (that may hurt the defense) than putting points on the board. And I’m willing to endure it, knowing that (a) there’s lots of room for improvement and (b) hopefully we won’t have to endure it forever.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 15, 2011 12:52 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree that Tarvaris is on a tight leash.

And I’m with you on enduring it. The angle the Seahawks are pushing right now, his toughness, will be important going forward. He’ll take a lot of hits i’m guessing.

"Scored a Deer Head" - Scruffy Lefty
Field Gulls | Follow me on the Twitters

by Danny Kelly on Sep 15, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because Tarvaris doesn't have the talent of Cam Newton. Not even remotely

The franchise also has a lot less invested in him.

Formerly Known As Vasilii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 15, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

obviously

but generally a new head coach on a bad team doesn’t tell his first round pick who has a billion concerns to go out and wing it like he did.

i wish pete had balls. i’d even be happy with one

by clarka on Sep 15, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, that kind of leash

What can I say. PC is stressing ball control until he can get a quarterback who can do more than “not hurt the team”.

Formerly Known As Vasilii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 15, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tarvaris is pretty much a glorified tackling dummy at this point

He’s the “practice” QB that’s going to take a pile of lumps while the OL gels. His “poise” and “toughness” seem to be based on sitting in the pocket, behind a pretty bad OL, holding onto the ball if the defense doesn’t give him anything and taking hits/sacks instead of INTs or running.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 15, 2011 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's valuable

Granted, a better QB would make the line look better, but whoever we put there is going to get hammered; best we have someone who is willing/able to make the best of it.

by The Ancient Mariner on Sep 16, 2011 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree completely

More jump passes! Otherwise, how will jump-pass drinking game ever get started?

by B.B.Finnegan on Sep 15, 2011 12:59 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Eew... don't exacerbate the Situation.

Only Jersey Shore chicks should do that.

by djafrot on Sep 15, 2011 2:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Thanks for such awesomeness.

I’d like to make a parallel to Marshawn Lynch. He’s suffered awful blocking. But he does things to make the situation he has been handed — awful blocking — worse, very frequently. Seeing him fight through tackles and be often hard to bring down is cool. It doesn’t move the chains. I believe he often takes on contact when he thinks he can’t beat a guy to the edge, so he gives up trying to beat them around the edge and just takes them on.

Anyway, that’s been discussed before. Very good points on Jackson. Damn, Greg Cosell is always so insightful, and always frames it all so well.

Head of catering.

by jacobstevens on Sep 15, 2011 1:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Cosell is so good. He was spot on -- I think he said that after the first preseason game too.

It definitely showed. I’ll have more on Cosell hopefully tomorrow.

"Scored a Deer Head" - Scruffy Lefty
Field Gulls | Follow me on the Twitters

by Danny Kelly on Sep 15, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've been a big fan of Cosell's for years

Voraciously consuming every tidbit he put out there. He seems to be getting more mainstream airtime now, which is great.

Formerly Known As Vasilii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 15, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he signed a deal

with ESPN. Which is why you are hearing more from him. Lets hope his ESPN deal doesn’t have the same effect on him as it did on Clayton.

by Tokyo Slim on Sep 15, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno what he does for ESPN specifically

But he’s been with NFL films for three decades and is still there. He still sounds like the same guy: not making bold statements, not talking about stuff he doesn’t know about, only offering very insightful analysis of guys he’s watched enough film on.

Formerly Known As Vasilii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 15, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he's doing weekly analysis

on matchups and talent eval on ESPN blogs and the occasional sportscenter spot.

But he just started, give ESPN time to ruin him.

by Tokyo Slim on Sep 15, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love when he goes on his little Twitter sprees about some particular topic that caught his eye and stimulated his analysis

I have his tweets forwarded to my phone (along with @FieldGulls, @LookoutLanding, and @d_a_cameron) and I usually walk into a tree or something when Cosell starts tweeting.

by Matt Erickson on Sep 15, 2011 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

One suggestion request.

I love the stills. When we’re evaluating blocking and/or QB pocket presence, it can really help if we can see pre-snap. I know FOX doesn’t always care about such things. And I know part of your job is making sure articles are readable and don’t have too much content. But when available, it’s more helpful, for me at least.

Head of catering.

by jacobstevens on Sep 15, 2011 1:16 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I wish

the entire media had to read this article. And yes Tavaris… throw the damn ball!

Great game Hawks... lets shock the world and beat the Steelers this weekend!!

by HawksFever on Sep 15, 2011 1:20 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

God, the jump passes are SO starting to annoy me as well.

I guess they shouldn’t so much but even when a QB does that crap and it works it drives me up the wall. Remember Doug Flutie? He didn’t jump pass so much (which is strange in a way, I guess, because the man is a hobbit) but he did throw on the run a crapload, threw from weird angles, and had as his signature move running backwards out of pressure. Come to think of it, Elway did that too. GOD I HATED STUPID HORSEFACE ELWAY. Anyway, the unconventional stuff is okay, I guess, when it works but honestly I just don’t see any situation in which a jump pass is going to accomplish things that a regular pass that you stride through won’t.

The good news, I guess, is that he didn’t do that so much in the 2nd half. The better news is that there’s a guy on the bench who, whatever his other flaws are, doesn’t do that at all.

"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)

by Johnny Slick on Sep 15, 2011 1:29 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Yeah - the jump passing just annoys me because it could really come back to bite him

He got away with it for the most part this week. I guess it’s his thing, and I’m not certain the Hawks are looking to fix it or not. He honestly did it almost every single time he was pressured.

"Scored a Deer Head" - Scruffy Lefty
Field Gulls | Follow me on the Twitters

by Danny Kelly on Sep 15, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

why does the coaching staff keep beating us in the head about tjax knowing the system

when he obviously doesn’t know one freaking thing other than where the check down is?

by clarka on Sep 15, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, I'm pretty sure jump passes aren't a part of any system unless you're the 1947 Redskins.

But he does seem to be at least passingly familiar with the offense. He hasn’t clicked with a lot of people yet (except maybe Doug Baldwin) and maybe that will change once Rice gets on the field, but like 99% of what bugs me about him (and don’t get me wrong, I am all but pining for the days of Clipboard Jesus) is technical, not, um, strategic (or however you’d classify knowing the playbook).

As as side point, wasn’t one of the big things about Hasselbeck that he knew Holmgren’s playbook coming in? Hass checked down ALL THE TIME his first year and a half here. And also got sacked a lot, I should add.

"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)

by Johnny Slick on Sep 15, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

but hasselbeck wasn't a 5 year pro with a season+ of starting experience

coming from minnesota, i know what tavaris looked like then… and it’s the exact same way he looks now. poopy

by clarka on Sep 15, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aren't TJax and Hasselbeck both right about the same age as when Hass came over here?

I think maybe Hass was a year younger.

"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)

by Johnny Slick on Sep 15, 2011 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is exactly what I've been talking about!!!

I know clarka is saying that TJax was a starter and that’s different, but I think this is more like Hass’s 2002 season – that’s when he took the starting job for good.

by Hawkguy on Sep 15, 2011 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great Post!

This is exactly what we need to see throughout the season to know if the offensive line is improving (my #1 key for this season). More please!!!

by bobbyj0708 on Sep 15, 2011 1:31 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

In pressures 2, 3, and 4

There is clearly a pocket, and Jackson is poised to throw (i.e. not still backpedaling in his dropback). So, these may be coverage pressures, and they may only be a ‘2 Mississippi’ count, but the play had developed enough to get off a throw. You can’t pin those on the offensive line. Unless you’re Tom Brady or Peyton Manning you’re not going to get 5 seconds to throw.

by negative 1 on Sep 15, 2011 1:40 PM PDT reply actions  

i think manning messed up his spine on purpose

because he knew that wasn’t going to be the case this year

by clarka on Sep 15, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah -- Several times it looked like he had an outlet pass at worst but just didn't pull the trigger quickly enough.

He may not have gone through progressions quickly enough, or just didn’t see them. Either way, he’s part of the offensive line’s problems. It’s really on both the line and the QB play.

"Scored a Deer Head" - Scruffy Lefty
Field Gulls | Follow me on the Twitters

by Danny Kelly on Sep 15, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think...

Tarvaris has taken to heart the press he has heard about not going through his progressions and has started to go through all of his progressions even when option one is open.

by rideaducati on Sep 15, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whether it's a player issue or by game plan

TJack looks timid as a field mouse out there. The biggest fault you could lay at the feet of Matt Hasselbeck was that he tried too damn hard to make things happen that it often backfired in his face. What we’re seeing from TJack is at the opposite end in that he’s far, far too willing to take the sack or check down for a 2-4 yard gain than take a chance and gun it into an open window. With Hasselbeck, we scream, “No! Don’t do that!” With Jackson, we scream, “Do something! Anything!”

I see in one of those screenshots that he can step into the pocket and has a plot of empty real estate sitting in front of him, waiting for him to put that touted maneuverability to work and gain a good 6-8 yards. The coach wanting him to be patient and wait for things to develop is good, but no plan survives contact with the enemy, and a good QB should seize those opportunities when they arise. I certainly don’t expect him to be like Michael Vick, with more rushing yards than passing yards, but with a field that open, if you’re afraid to pass, then don’t be afraid to run. And let’s face it, he wasn’t going to pass in that situation, so if he gets his yardage some other way, more power to him.

I don’t understand a lot of what PC supposedly instructed TJ to do. “Avoid interceptions”? Of course he wants to avoid interceptions. But going by Carroll’s own logic, going three and out has the exact same effect as a more dramatic turnover. We may not be cataloging INT’s in TJack’s stat line, but we’re giving the ball up all the same. If that mandate is accurate, then it’s probably Carroll’s biggest mistake as a coach so far in that he’s hamstrung his quarterback into a ridiculously conservative game. We used to bemoan Holmgren’s calling a draw on 3rd & 8 to gain four yards and punt it away. Is it any different to have our QB throw a four-yard check down in the same situation rather than trying to make a play for the first?

As it stands, TJack isn’t playing to win. Because of his personal reaction to pressure and because of the instructions and mandate he’s been given, he’s playing to not lose. And playing to not lose is the surest path to mediocrity. He may not have many INT’s to his name, but he sure as hell won’t have many yards or TD’s either. The only thing that benefits is probably his completion percentage, and if you’re only averaging five or so yards per completion, what’s the point?

"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan

"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"

by Clendy on Sep 15, 2011 1:46 PM PDT reply actions  

I said the same thing to my friend:

With Hass I was screaming at the TV “Don’t make that throw!” and now I’m yelling “Just throw the goddamn ball!” Frustrating turn of events. Middle ground?

"Scored a Deer Head" - Scruffy Lefty
Field Gulls | Follow me on the Twitters

by Danny Kelly on Sep 15, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Middle ground would be Charlie.

TJ’s arm, and Hass’s balls.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Sep 15, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

New Ben & Jerry's flavor.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Sep 15, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Little salty for my taste

"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan

"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"

by Clendy on Sep 15, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just a bit salty.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Sep 15, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

ah ha

malty balls.
nope, I’m still passing

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Sep 15, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your balls look misshapen.

Sorry, they’ve been sitting on top of a hot oven all day.

"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)

by Johnny Slick on Sep 15, 2011 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

"But going by Carroll’s own logic, going three and out has the exact same effect as a more dramatic turnover."

I don’t agree with this at all. You get a hell of a lot better field position when you punt after a 3 and out as opposed to an INT or a fumble.

Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"

by Bobby Cink on Sep 15, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're still giving up the ball either way

If you’re not letting your quarterback throw for longer yardage and you end up turning over the ball because of it, it’s not playing to win; it’s just losing less.

"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan

"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"

by Clendy on Sep 15, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

it will be very interesting

What happens when jackson continues his sad play and the CLink erupts for charlie. Unlike with hass people won’t wait very long. Shit, if he plays awful in Pitt. We could hear it before the game starts in Seattle the following week.

by Savage Seahawk fan on Sep 15, 2011 2:48 PM PDT via iPhone app reply actions  

Charlie's no Tebow though

Both in that right now Charlie is a better QB than Tebow, as in the relation with the franchise is different.

Formerly Known As Vasilii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 15, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Billboards are going up in Denver.

Are we far from CBJ billboards?

Like Brando in Apocalypse Now, Lombardi said,,,"The knee, the knee."

by woofu on Sep 15, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hass couldn't

I felt sorry for the guy when that happened…

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Sep 15, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

It'll happen in the home opener.

And TJ’s fragile psyche will be shattered.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Sep 15, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let's see if I got this right.

TJ is encouraged to stay in the pocket and tough out the pressure our young OL is letting in until the slow seperating WR’s can get open because TJ won’t throw into tight windows.

Sounds and looks like what we’re getting except when a quick seperation guy like Baldwin runs a route. That would make Baldwin a first read in my book.

Now this can be corrected one of three ways,

1/ Better protection. Thats not a quick fix and the price we needed to pay to get that position sorted out.
2/ Seperation capable starting WR’s.
3/ Tight window willing Qb.

So I get what the guy is saying and agree. These guys are good players but not on the same team at this time.

Like Brando in Apocalypse Now, Lombardi said,,,"The knee, the knee."

by woofu on Sep 15, 2011 2:52 PM PDT reply actions  

It's the same problem as we had with some additions during the Hasselbeck era

Sloppy route runners like Tate or mostly speed guys like Butler didn’t fit what Hasselbeck could do. Tarvaris will similarly damage the statistical output of Sidney Rice and Mike Williams.

Hope no one drafted em in fantasy.

Formerly Known As Vasilii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 15, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm considering a bench job for Baldwin.

He’s on my watch list for now.

Like Brando in Apocalypse Now, Lombardi said,,,"The knee, the knee."

by woofu on Sep 15, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

What's weird about the last game was the quick read and release on Tate in the slot for the TD

When he threw that pass, I was thinking “yes, this is what it should look like, but not just in the red zone. Let him get some of those passes going.” But I never really saw them look for that slant again. Now, that’s just my memory, and could be flawed, but I was definitely looking for it after they hit it for the TD.

But maybe that still goes against the “tight window” part of the thesis about TJ if they line someone up over the top of Tate (or whoever the slot guy is).

by Kingdomer on Sep 15, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

At least in the first Still

Carpenter neutralizes Smith so we know he is capable!

by Jazzercise! on Sep 15, 2011 3:12 PM PDT reply actions  

On the Second Still

Carpenter should have doubled with Okung on Smith don’t know where he is going he is almost downfield going after a linebacker or somethin

by Jazzercise! on Sep 15, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't include this in the article, but I think it really makes a difference that Jackson is only 6'2

He makes jump passes because he’s not tall enough, literally, to throw over his linemen when faced with pressure.

"Scored a Deer Head" - Scruffy Lefty
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by Danny Kelly on Sep 15, 2011 3:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Lots of shorter quarterbacks have been able to throw from the pocket.

The difference, I would assume, is Jackson’s lack of pocket presence. He has little ability to know when to take that small step to make the throwing angle better. He’s relying on his arm strength.

Look at someone like Brees. Watch him move around in the pocket, it’s pretty impressive.

by djafrot on Sep 15, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

does brees scamper?

When I think of him, and the way he shuffles around in a pocket, I think ‘scampering’. Dunno if that’s accurate, though.

Heresy grows from idleness.

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Sep 15, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

When I picture Brees

I see a basketball player doing the “heat-em-up” drill where you always keep your feet moving. The guy has a way of dancing around in the pocket where he’s always on balance and can make quick throws.

"Scored a Deer Head" - Scruffy Lefty
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by Danny Kelly on Sep 15, 2011 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, definitely.

Not saying that shorter QBs cant operate in the pocket and you’re right, I think Tarvaris doesn’t have very good presence. I just think in his case the 6’2 thing is particularly inhibitive for him. Charlie looks like a giant standing next to him. (not that I’m comparing the two… cough)

"Scored a Deer Head" - Scruffy Lefty
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by Danny Kelly on Sep 15, 2011 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, the combination of lack of pocket presence and lack of height makes it pretty difficult for him.

I wonder how much experience he’ll need before “developing” that presence. Either that, or he needs a trip to a Chinese surgeon.

by djafrot on Sep 15, 2011 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is one of a few non-athletic things where QBs rarely make dramatic improvements

I was always fond of the term “phone booth” mobility. It’s that ability to feel the rush, where you don’t trust your eyes, and then to make slight in-the-pocket foot adjustments to change throwing lanes and/or evade pressure. Perhaps the best guy at it right now is Philip Rivers. (On the flip side, I think phone booth mobility is Matt Leinart’s one bona fide pro skill but he’s too inaccurate for it to matter.)

Phone booth mobility is an important skill, but it’s not an automatic ticket to the Pro Bowl (see Leinart). It’s also not a death sentence if you aren’t great at it. Phone booth mobility can be compensated for by things like size and/or arm strength. Or, anticipation that allows a QB get the ball out quickly without destroying route timing can make up for less than stellar phone booth mobility.

Roethlisberger is the quintessential low phone booth mobility QB who can make up for it by being elusive at the point of contact (guys slide off him) and big enough to make plays under assault. (And that’s just at the bar—buh doomp tsss!) If Tebow can make a real contribution in the NFL it will be driven largely by this.

Vintage Matt Hasselbeck is the quintessential low phone booth mobility QB who makes up for it with anticipation. To be clear, Matt didn’t take a lot of sacks in his prime but that’s not because he exceptional at beating the rush with his footwork in the pocket like Rivers or Brees. He was adequate, but Holmgren was fond of rolling him out to get him away from traffic. Hass was exceptional at getting the ball out of his hands before the rush could get home. In his prime he could beat the rush and put the ball into tight windows based on anticipation rather than zip.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Sep 16, 2011 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Phone Booth Mobility - I love it.

But I’m calling it PBM for short.

Your observation of Roeth is dead on. What makes him so dangerous is the combination of TBM and an insane ability to shrug off tacklers. Add in a big arm and you’ve got big-play potential at all times.

by djafrot on Sep 16, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was a point I was looking for in your write-up

He seems to have an inordinate number of batted balls at the line of scrimmage, which can be based both on his height and his poor footwork in finding a throwing lane.

"Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden." The Monarch

by crushedoptimist on Sep 15, 2011 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Its not just the Oline and TJ

BMW was double teamed all day, obo barely got open. Top Pot only caught the one TD. TJ did underutilize Zack Miller though, he seemed to be open all the time. I also think he is starting to build a good report with Baldwin, so maybe we see him more.He really seems to be the perfect type of reciever for TJ, craetes separation, and has massive YAC.

by Oliudyen on Sep 15, 2011 4:35 PM PDT reply actions  

we want the ball and we're gonna score

i would much rather have a quarterback with an obvious fire for the game than our current pussy-footed game manager. i can live with mistakes if i know that know that no matter how i feel about it, the quarterback feels infinitely worse.

i know for a fact that i will never feel as badly as al harris’s pick six as hasselbeck will. but who knows what tavaris thinks about his mistakes. he’s so effing boring.

by clarka on Sep 15, 2011 6:15 PM PDT reply actions  

What are going to be our bread and butter pass plays?

This could turn out to be a great screen and swing pass team. TJax actually throws those quite well. And those happen to be throws that Matt was barely adequate at and mostly tur’bull.

My suspicion is that we’ll see a bunch of that, especially after Pittsburgh damn near decapitates Beef Moe in the first half.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Sep 16, 2011 6:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Great Post!

This may be way off base but I get this sneaky impression that our first half offensive woes are by design. Maybe I am just hoping we are baiting the defense for plays later in the game. Carrol has been saying all along it’s about how we finish and what adjustments can be made in the second half. Granted the play calling didnt change but the execution did. This happened all through the preseason granted we did see second and third stringers in there.

by KidDanger on Sep 16, 2011 7:09 AM PDT reply actions  

That would be a really dumb way to coach a team, no offense.

More likely, the offensive side of things in particular hadn’t been allowed to adjust for pressure in the preseason and they had to do it on the fly in Week One.

"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)

by Johnny Slick on Sep 16, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wierd theory

I think Carroll is having TJax stay in the pocket and go through his progression without the pressure to actually throw the ball. It’s sort of like a batter always taking the first pitch, to get used to seeing the pitcher’s release and movement on the ball.

I think TJax can throw a very accurate ball without pressure. Carroll wants him to get used to pressure without having to throw, then get used to going through the progression under pressure, then throw the right ball at the right point in the progression under pressure. If I was trying to reteach Tarvaris how to be a QB, I think this is how I would go about it, especially if it had worked for me in the past. I think this is maybe a half season learning process, and it is one that should be a steady improvement.

I could be wrong

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Sep 16, 2011 7:28 AM PDT reply actions  

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