Word of Muth: Seahawk Slide

My favorite FO column discusses the Seahawk offensive line.

8 months ago robbbbbb 28 comments 2 recs |

Comments

Absolute must-read stuff

I was frustrated by the directorial choices during the game as well.

Interesting he’s still impressed with Okung considering Okung actually looked better last year. Still looks great, but y’know.

Fascinating stuff on slide blocking.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 29, 2011 12:08 PM PDT reply actions

Absolutely no mention of Okung's penalties was made in this article. Seemed like a pretty significant omittance...

Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"

by Bobby Cink on Sep 29, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Without meaning to be a snob or anything, I think penalties distract fans from player quality when it comes to the offensive line, because they’re really the only trackable stats that exists. If penalties were really that significant, Richie Incognito wouldn’t have a job.

Yes, penalties can be a significant problem for offensive linemen if (like Incognito) they structurally appear through their career, with problems with holding or timing on snaps. But they’re not a primary factor in analyzing offensive linemen, especially not for an OL specialist like Muth, who spends his time looking at how well players play generally rather than incidental mistakes they make.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 29, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs

Started to reply to thebroski's post with "I don't know if I agree, because..."

And then spent 5 minutes trying to figure out why I disagree. Then this post appeared. Rec’d for saving me time!

by jhmg16 on Sep 29, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Also if I flagged that post instead of Rec'ing it (can't tell)

It was an accident

by jhmg16 on Sep 29, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions

Your reply is sound, not snobbish.

However, to make a fair point, how many flags has Okung drawn this year between false starts and holding? How many did he have last year? I understand that he may be trying to compensate for his ankle injuries, but can you distinguish between that and just poor “timing on snaps” as you say?

Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"

by Bobby Cink on Sep 29, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't know

It’s that simple, I just don’t know. We might be able to figure it out over the whole year, but simply not knowing the situation of Okung’s penalties means I can’t really criticize Muth for not paying attention to them, though I suppose he could’ve at least mentioned them.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 29, 2011 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions

My memory was two 2-false start games this year

and that’s what the Washington Post says as well. Zero false starts last year, which I remember hearing mentioned, and 3 holding penalties last year.

James Carpenter has apparently not been penalized in a regular season game yet. I seem to recall a 2-false start game, a hold and at least one other false start, but they must have been during the awful preseason, poor guy.

In Okung’s case, though he hasn’t had an issue with false starts before, I am slightly concerned. Because of the nature of them. Three of them (if not also the fourth, I just don’t remember) he slowly starts into his slide, ready for the first kick step, and the cadence or whatever is taking too long, and he moves too far by the time the refs just flag him. They are exceptionally smooth false starts. Hey, I like the gamesmanship, Russ! But they aren’t getting the snap count wrong issues.

No, I’m not worried he’ll turn out to be another Alex Barron. I have no frame of reference so I dunno for sure that it’s bad, but at the same time I can’t say there’s no reason for concern, either.

Head of catering.

by jacobstevens on Sep 29, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Or adjusting to Tavaris Jackson's difference sounding cadence could be the issue.

I hesitate to bring this up because announcers said it (likely made up) but they said Tavaris’ hard count made our own line jump sometimes in practice. Perhaps?

Or just the normal issues of having a new QB with much less experience/polish are popping up.

by cashless on Sep 30, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

The hold

on Porter was the only significant penalty I saw. Okung seemed off balance on that play.

by Jazzercise! on Sep 29, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions

I just learned more about OL technique in 5 minutes than I learned in the past decade of watching and reading about football.

by jhmg16 on Sep 29, 2011 12:16 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Go Forth and Learn More

The Word of Muth archive:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth

He doesn’t talk about the Seahawks in previous articles, but there’s a ton of stuff about offensive line scheme and technique. Highly recommended reading.

by robbbbbb on Sep 29, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Good read

Nice to know that some one that savvy is seeing the same things I am

by southern oregon on Sep 29, 2011 12:41 PM PDT reply actions

I didn't read the entire article just the beginning

So if this was mentioned, sorry. Yes seattle gave up 4 sacks against the Cards but I think the line is at fault for 1. The other three are on T Jax. I was at that game and T Jax needs to throw the ball. Im not saying the oline doesn’t need to improve because they do but T Jax needs to help out too.

by Redzone59 on Sep 29, 2011 12:50 PM PDT via mobile reply actions

See the section entitled "2nd thought"

Shameless self-promotion.

by Matt Erickson on Sep 29, 2011 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Obviously the curse that Steve Hutchinson put on the LG spot when he left

will only go away when he retires. Retire, Hutch!

by Coach Owens on Sep 29, 2011 1:26 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs

And will return when he gets on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

by Stay Off the Flowers on Sep 29, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm interested to see

What happens when Muth revisits the ‘Hawks in a few weeks. Especially in Carpenter and Moffit’s play, and whether or not the ’Hawks keep scheming to protect them.

by robbbbbb on Sep 29, 2011 1:56 PM PDT reply actions

Yeah me too

Although I didn’t see them use the slide protection every pass play. I think its a little overdone in the article just based off of what I can remember the Cardinals blitzed the Linebacker at Carpenter on almost every passing situation only on occasion did I see him slide. Mostly he was one on one with the Linebacker and he Carp did get beat to the inside when he was off balance on one play but TJ bootlegged out of the sack, I dont think it was a designed play.

by Jazzercise! on Sep 29, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Interesting conclusion by Muth

That not only is Carpenter getting TE help, but the Seahawks’ blocking schemes are designed to protect him as well. That puts Okung in a lot of one-on-ones. Makes you realize how important a healthy Okung is to this line.

by Groundhog on Sep 29, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Yep

I am not too worried about Okung I believe he will be fine and not too worried about the young bucks on the right side either, call it a hunch I really have nothing to base it off of though . The only thing I am really worried about is the LG situation Gallery injured don’t know if we will ever be able to rely on him and Mcquistan… not sure what they have planned but I don’t like that situation one bit.

by Jazzercise! on Sep 29, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Holy crap.

Stellar, stellar breakdown.

by BrianL on Sep 29, 2011 2:49 PM PDT reply actions

This is the best Seahawks o-line piece I've seen.

by BrianL on Sep 29, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Pretty much

When Muth announced the young Seahawks O-line would be one he would track all season long I pretty much fan-squeeeed.

Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Sep 29, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

Ding!

Me, too. That’s why I’ll be fan-shotting Word of Muth every time he covers the Seahawks this year. (If someone else doesn’t beat me to it, first.)

by robbbbbb on Sep 29, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions

If the Seahawks are in his rotation every three weeks, his next bit on Seattle will cover

The Bye.

Groan

by Groundhog on Sep 29, 2011 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Sweet sweet analysis. Here's Muth's breakdown on JC befoer the football season:

James Carpenter:

2011 first-round pick James Carpenter will start opposite Okung at right tackle. A lot of people felt Seattle reached for Carpenter in the first round, but I was a big fan of his going into the draft. With the exception of Tyron Smith’s athleticism, I thought Carpenter’s run blocking was the most impressive tool any offensive tackle had coming into the league this year. His pass set needs a little work but he appears to be a good enough athlete to make the adjustment.

Futurely known as BundyBundyBear (Aussie homer)

by RagingAlot on Sep 29, 2011 3:57 PM PDT reply actions

Yeah, although he does mention in the article that he wasn't quite as blown away by Carpenter as before.

Anyway, Moffitt and McQuistan got absolutely abused on 2 of the 4 sacks the team allowed. I’m not overly concerned with that, as we haven’t called Moffitt’s number in a bad way very much this season even though he’s every bit as much of a rookie as Carp, and as for McQuistan… well, he’s 30 years old and playing a backup role for a reason. I guess I’m most concerned over there that PC doesn’t trust Tyler Polumbus to stick him in at LG instead.

"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)

by Johnny Slick on Sep 29, 2011 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions