Penciling it in: Analyzing the Seahawks' Dance Card (Part I)
by Chris Sully on Sep 7, 2011 7:32 AM PDT
in Know Your Enemy
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Just as an NFL game is broken into four quarters, I've often found it instructive to break a season down into the same. Over the next four days, I'll be taking a look at each quarter with a mini-scouting report of each team and perchance some tomfoolery. Let's roll:
Week One: @ San Francisco 49ers
The Back Story - NFC West rival that have long been a perceived threat and a consistent under-performer. The picture of coaching staff volatility in the NFL (well, along with the Seahawks), the one thing they've kept steady is a bizarre commitment to QB Alex Smith.
Key Additions - Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Braylon Edwards, Donte Whittner, oh... and new head coach Jim Harbaugh.
Key Subtractions - David Baas, Aubrayo Franklin, Manny Lawson, Takeo Spikes, Nate Clements, amongst others.
Prognostication - The 49ers have played an odd game this off-season. They've let a lot of the talent on their defense leave, in some cases pushing them out the door, and yet haven't seemed too concerned with a) replacing that talent or, b) improving their offense. That's not entirely fair: Braylon Edwards improves their receiving corps and a healthy, happy Frank Gore won't hurt things. Still, committing early to Alex Smith made many question whether they were joining the Andrew Luck sweepstakes intentionally. I don't think that's the case, but I do fail to see what the game plan really is for these 2011 49ers. They look like a 5-7 win team to me.
Random Trivia - The Seahawks' 2004 shutout of the 49ers (34-0) marked the first shutout for the 49ers since 1977.
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Week Two: @ Pittsburgh Steelers
The Back Story - I'm sure you've all forgotten it by now, but a long time ago in a coaching staff far, far away your Seattle football Seahawks faced the Pittsburgh Steelers in the Super Bowl. Not ringing a bell? Don't worry about it.
Key Additions - Cameron Heyward, Jerrico Cotchery
Key Subtractions - Max Starks, Antwan Randle-el... Holy crap, they've got 46 returning players.
Prognostication - The Steelers are very good at playing futbol americano. Though their defensive stalwarts continue to age, and their offense lacks any superstars, the Steelers are primed to go toe-to-toe with the Ravens (yet again) for AFC North supremacy. Coming off a Super Bowl loss to the Packers, the black-and-gold will be looking for revenge. They look set to lock up either their division or a wildcard berth, but over the past five years they've been just inconsistent enough to avoid being a regular playoff team in the mold of the Patriots or Colts.
Random Trivia - The "Steelers" is not the team's original name. They were originally the Pirates, and briefly both the Steagles (merged with the Eagles during WWII), and "Card-Pitt" when they merged with the Cardinals.
Week Three: Arizona Cardinals
The Back Story - Ya'll, they straight up competition. The Cards represent the third, wobbly, "established" team within the NFC West. By bringing in Kevin Kolb and re-signing Larry Fitzgerald, Whisenhunt hopes to keep his job and maybe even win the wide open division. Unfortunately for Whiz and the Cards, they've had a massive talent drain since their Super Bowl defeat.
Key Additions - Kevin Kolb, Patrick Peterson, Todd Heap, Daryn Colledge
Key Subtractions - Steve Breaston, Tim Hightower, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
Prognostication - They've mortgaged the farm on Kolb, and that could pay off... but whether it will certainly remains to be seen. I can see the Cardinals finishing anywhere from 4th to 2nd in the NFC West, but I don't see them as a better than .500 team. Their defense has progressively gotten worse, and though there offense cannot possibly be worse than it was last year behind Derek Anderson/Max Hall/John Skelton, barring a major breakout year by Kevin Kolb, they still look average at best.
Random Trivia - Despite feeling like they have no real history (in part because they've been the military kid of the professional football, moving around before they can really make friends), the Arizona Cardinals and their predecessors are the longest continually running franchise in pro football, founded in 1898. Also, Max Hall is no part of their legacy.
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Week Four: Atlanta Falcons
The Back Story - The Falcons went 13-3 last year, including a victory over the Seahawks that saw Matt Hasselbeck implode like an improperly baked souffle.
Key Additions - Julio Jones, Ray Edwards
Key Subtractions - Michael Jenkins, Jerious Norwood
Prognostication - The NFC South is the arguably the strongest division in the NFL, and the Falcons were the belle of da ball last year, and they appear to have gotten better this season. They've got the quarterback, the defense, the wide receivers, and the running back -- assuming Turner can stay healthy -- to be right in the position for a run at the Lombardi trophy. They also traded the NFL equivalent of a Halloween candy haul to the Browns for the right to take Julio Jones, indicating that they know their close and the window may be brief.
Random Trivia - Arthur Blank is the reanimated corpse of Walt Disney.
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Guh. I'm seeing 1-3 to start.
A note on the trivia, though: one thing that is always surprising to me and which I also think is surprising to fans of the game younger than 40 or so is how bad the Steelrs were before the 70s. That spot inhabited by the Bengals right now? That was the Steelers’ home, only without the parity to give them a reasonable shot at improving. They moved to the AFC largely because nobody in the NFC cared about them (the other team, the Colts, was a relative newcomer… honestly I’m not sure why they flipped and not the Cowboys, Vikings, or Falcons, but some other football nerd can probably shed some light into that). Now they’re one of the most storied franchises in the league, of course, but a big part of why they were the Steagles and Card-Pitt was because they simply didn’t have the fan base to support them during the War.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Sep 7, 2011 8:07 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Steagles
I thought they joined forces on part because the majority of both teams was serving in the war. I don’t think it was necesitated solely by the lack of fans. in Pitt and Philly. Although both teams were sort of poor in the early going and did have attendance issues. Plus during the War Pittsburgh was pumping out steel, there was no time to go watch a football game.
Per Wikipedia
The Steagles is the popular nickname for the team created by the temporary merger of two National Football League (NFL) teams, the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Philadelphia Eagles, during the 1943 season. The teams were forced to merge because both had lost many players to military service during World War II.
Most likely
I think there’s a less than 20% chance that we defeat either the Steelers or the Falcons. We should be able to control the 49ers, presuming our run defense is stout and our offense can produce more than a trickle of points. Verdict is still very much out on the Cardinals, I think.
With minimal pass rush, it seems unlikely that the Seahawks will have the ability to go toe-to-toe with many elite or even above average QBs. Not sure if Kolb fits the bill yet, but Roethlisberger and Ryan do, Smith does not.
If we start 2-2 we're legit
If we start 3-1 we’re both legit and lucky
If we start 4-0 we’re cheating
by vertigoman on Sep 7, 2011 8:55 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
hey
i’m thinking me and you go film the steelers and falcons’ practices and then discreetly mail them to Renton, how about it? we’ll be like
Heresy grows from idleness.
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Sep 7, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the hawks catch pittsburgh at the right spot
Right after Baltimore, and Before Indy…I am sure they won’t forget about us, but they could be pretty banged up after the Ravens game.
"It's a trap!"
Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"
by Bobby Cink on Sep 7, 2011 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Fighters coming in.
"It was a dream come true to be the quarterback in Seattle; Bigger and better than anything I could have dreamed of." -Matthew Hasselbeck
I feel good about 2-2 with 3-1 not being that crazy
SF is not going to be good on D or in the air. I think we should be favored.
The Cards D and run game are going to be bad and we should be able to get a rush on Kolb at home. We should win this game.
The falcons are a better team, but its at home, so we should be up to a 30% chance or so of winning. Wierder things have happened, especially at home.
The Stealers are getting older. This could be the year that decline starts to hurt them. I also think that we could surprise them between bigger games. Happened last year in Chicago.
Bottom Line we have two games that I think we should win and two we shouldn’t, but could get lucky.
3-1 is a little crazy.
2-2 could happen if we upset (yes, upset) the 49ers in San Francisco or the Falcons here. I don’t see the team doing both unless the line improves in a big hurry and/or TJ suddenly learns to release quickly to avoid the sack instead of trying to create time with his feet.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
So, beating AZ at home is crazy?
We can surely manage to be mediocre at home.
2-2 is admittedly a stretch but not unattainable.
Um, who said that?
Maybe you meant to respond to someone else?
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Sep 7, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
"SF is not going to be good on D or in the air."
And the Seahawks are? And in San Fran?
3-1 is a dream.
Maybe with last year's team.
"It was a dream come true to be the quarterback in Seattle; Bigger and better than anything I could have dreamed of." -Matthew Hasselbeck
I think our D will surprise people
It will make mistakes because its young, but I think they will surprise people with how good they are/are going to be. Not elite or even above average, but a lot closer to average than most here believe.
It's extremely difficult to measure the quality of football teams based on the pre-season (where changes from last year can be seen)...
…or by history, and even if a precise measurement could be made (on a scale of 0-100 the Falcons are at 88 and the Seahawks something like 23) you couldn’t guarantee the ‘88’ team beats the ‘23’ team on any given Sunday, but…
…have you people been watching the Seahawks play? A 30% chance of beating the Falcons? Going 2-2 in the first four games? Really?
I can’t imagine the Cards and Niners significantly worse then the Seahawks, right out of the gate. If Alex Smith is an average QB, he is head and shoulders above Jackson. If Kolb is worth half what the Cards paid for him, he is WAY better then Smith or Jackson.
While an elite QB can lift a mediocre team into the play-offs and beyond (see Warner) the opposite is also true: a poor QB will bring the entire team to a lower level, and that’s what Seahawk fans can expect this weekend. And the Seahawks, outside the QB position, are not very good, not yet. The o-line will struggle, as will the secondary. The run game may be pretty good, and the run defense, but that’s not how games can be won. You need to pass the ball, and defend the pass consistently, to win consistently, and the Seahawks won’t be able to do that.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
And if the Seahawks finish with 2 or more wins after the 4th week, I will be the first to admit I was dead wrong.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Unless Matty Ice is hurt
I don’t see this team beating the Falcons.
The Falcons crushed the Hawks last year. Being Healthy does not make the Hawks that much better.
Not to be anal or anything but,
We played pretty well against them actually and the point gap didn’t widen til late in the game. Matt threw that one away.
"It was a dream come true to be the quarterback in Seattle; Bigger and better than anything I could have dreamed of." -Matthew Hasselbeck
I'm so much less concerned with T-Jack
than I am with the offensive line and the entire defense.
Good play at the QB position would mitigate weaknesses on the o-line and also help the defense.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
But if the O-line can't block
Then it does not matter how good your QB is? If he needs 3 seconds to throw, but gets tackled after 2.5 every time, it doesn’t matter.
I assume everyone we play is going to blitz, the crap out of us. They better be practicing the screens in practice, because those should be gold.
As has been said on this site before, a good QB will shred a blitzing defense...
…and will only get beat when surprised.
If the defense lines up to blitz every down, good QBs thrive, bad ones look like TJax.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
That is assuming a good line
But if you have guys coming free constantly unblocked, it will rattle even good QBs.
A QB can make a difference, but if he has no where to go with the ball or you make him throw in 3 secs and your DB’s no that is when the ball has to be out the defense normally wins.
The Jets went 2-1 againsty Brady…they blitzed constantly…Brady is pretty damn good.
Yes, it does
It is too simplified to pretend a QB like Tarvaris has no impact on the pocket at all. A better QB can play against the blitz, make the defense hesitate, step around the pocket properly, sense pressure properly, not panic. Tarvaris Jackson can do none of those things.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
But your arguing against assignment defense
I sat in the room listening to Jim Johnson (Eagles D-coord) preach his defensive strategy. Which was basically blitz at will in throwing situations, he didn’t care if it was Peyton manning or Tarvaris Jackson, or Joe Montana at the QB position.
He preached assignments, everyone covered man 2 man, and you know the ball is coming in 3 seconds, if it is not out in 3 secs, it is a sack.
If the ball is out in 3 seconds on 3rd and 8, even if it is a catch, if the tackle is made immediately it is 4th down.
Yes you play with fire, and sometimes well you do get burndt, but by percentages (with good corners) it is 4th down.
Yeah, not a lot of teams run their defense like that, so I don't understand what your point is
Against most defenses, the QB will make the defense pay for constantly blitzing, and there’s not a lot of defenses set up to prevent that problem from occurring. And that’s just one element, like I said, it’s not like most teams are constantly blitzing.
Are you seriously saying the QB has no impact on how much time he has in the pocket?
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Against Tarvaris
I guess I am imagining people sending the house against Tarvaris and our O-line. He is not the most accurate QB and he panics under pressure. Cause confusion with the o-line and you will get there.
Now as to the QB yes he can side step, move up, but in a well executed blitz where a man is free, the QB is normally hurried or sacked.
I don’t have much faith in the Hawks O-line after the preseason thinking everyone is going to be picked up.
So you agree with the point we're making?
That Tarvaris exacerbates the offensive line’s woes?
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought I was...
I thought I was arguing that the QB exacerbates the issue. But I alos think this O-line sucks…but I have serious issues with O-line.
Also Spags will all out blitz ala his teacher Jim Johnson. I just do not think he has the corners he wants yet.
Writing was never my strong point.
Pretty much true
Going 1-3 is the most likely case scenario. A lot of people want to wait and see on Tarvaris, and that’s fine, but I think most people who have gone back and watched him play for the Vikings will agree he is one of the worst starting QBs in the league, if not the worst, and is particularly badly matched with our offensive line and receivers.
The defense, meanwhile, is generating zero pass rush and has a young, mistake-prone secondary.
All of it is a recipe for disaster.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Even so, I really hope we see some good football, no matter what the record ends up saying.
Good plays on offense and defense; spirited play through-out, with flashes of excellence. That’s what I hope to see.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Chad Henne, Andy Dalton, Jason Campbell, Rex Grossman, Luke McCown, Cam Newton, Alex Smith.
Do you really think Jackson is worse than most or all of them?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, don't know Luke McCown well enough, no, yes.
So yes, I think TJax is worse then most of them.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Meaning I would prefer those I said 'yes' to as starting QBs for the Seahawks over TJax.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Then why no to Cam Newton?
He’s a horrible 1st overall pick as the one-year starter he is, but he has the right tools. A long shot, developmental prospect. He’ll play like shit his first year but I’d definitely rather have him under center than Tarvaris.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking now, this year, so I may have over-rated Dalton in that regard...
…but I have sensed that Dalton, while on a bad team, has more modest expectations and a skill-set better suited to immediate play in the league – but I could be wrong.
Newton is really raw, inaccurate, with typical challenges making decisions of any rookie.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
I think, given how awful those guys are, that's pretty silly
but as long as you aren’t one of the masochists calling for Charlie Whitehurst to start over Jackson, then I can respect your opinion.
Charlie is going to start for the Seahawks at some point this season
Just giving you prep time to get used to the idea
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, I expect am prepped for us to lose
so I will now prep for us to lose harder. :)
Over a 16 game season, CW gives the team something like 2-4 more wins then TJax, everything else being equal.
So in one sense, I am rooting for TJax to start every game, putting the Seahawks in excellent draft position in 2012.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Yes I can make up unfounded, fictitious statements, too.
Tarvaris Jackson gives the Seahawks +5 dexterity on all dodge rolls.
by NotBAMF on Sep 7, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Wish I could drop Feral Growth on the OL so that we could get some more push...
Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"
Did you know that Magic: The Gathering tournaments
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I just found out that there were professional Magic players
a couple of weeks ago because some horribly lady wrote a piece in Gizmodo about mistakenly going on a date with one (and the internet erupted in an explosion of nerd rage).
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Bahaha, I saw that.
In fairness, that woman was pretty damn bad. “OMG HE NEVER TOLD ME HE WAS A MAGIC PLAYER!!!!” Seriously, I don’t play Magic but is it really that much different from getting together with the guys every Wednesday to play poker or participating in a fantasy football league?
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Sep 7, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
She pretended like he tricked her somehow
Like he should have posted a disclaimer in his profile or something.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I used to play Yu-gi-Oh
And I sure as heck wasn’t putting that in any kind of profile. :)
It is a little different
But I’ve always moved in social circles where such things have no stigma. I used to gather with some friends once a month to do pen and paper roleplaying. A cop, a mental care worker and a physician. It’s just a hobby.
Funny thing you mention poker. Magic really must have the same mental arithmatic as poker, because a lot of pro Magic players later turn into pretty good pro poker player. Including that guy. I wonder if he told Gizmodo lady that he plays poker as well. Would that be ok?
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm in a pen and paper RPG group...
…but everyone else who is in it does computer programming or something similar, so my example does not, unfortunately, thwart the stigma.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
You know what's nerdier than pen and paper RPGs?
Listening to other people play them (via podcasts). Forever alone.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Hah.
Wow.
The only thought I have about the QBOTF is how big Carroll's smile would be if he snatched Andrew Luck away from Jim Harbaugh.
Follow the llama tail
by Wayward Llama on Sep 7, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
There's that one set of videos out there with porn stars playing DnD
That has to be slightly above actually playing DnD in the hierarchy of nerddom.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
You'd better sheath that thing or the orcs will regard it as a hostile act.
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."
by shams on Sep 7, 2011 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Played poker*
Was part of a card counting blackjack group and had a book written about that, and works as a hedge fund manager.
That woman’s article was incredibly dumb.
*Like a lot of other Magic players, yes. One of them actually came in 2nd at the WSOP and took in $3.5M (David Williams).
Work hard, play harder, rest easy.
Whenever my kids are boneheads
My wife and I joke that we need to get a bigger basement because they will be down there learning to play magic someday and then never leave.
Self-choking was also on "the Deuce", but only after midnight.
Michael Hutchence hosted.
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."
Every little one of us
has a devil inside
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."
Ah, those were the days...
M:tG on ESPN was ridiculously awesome. It was like the World Series of Poker before it was cool.
Not unfounded - just another way to express what I perceive the difference in their quality of play.
For example, the only offensive success TJax had all pre-season was in the 2nd half with Seattle’s first team against the 2nd team during the 3rd preseason game.
The promising drive that opened the 4th pre-season ended with a terrible throw by TJax that ended up intercepted in the endzone. Before people blame Tate (a comment I have seen elsewhere) even PC admitted it was a mistake.
All this with Seattle’s best offense on the field, with Rice, BMW, Washington and Miller, and still, TJax played poorly, looked incompetent, made bad decision, etc.
On the other hand, playing behind 2nd/3rd string o-lines, against 2nd/3rd string defenses, CW played consistently well; quick decisions, quick, accurate throws (as opposed to slow decision, and often ugly throws by TJax); good pocket awareness, good shiftiness, keeping plays alive (like the TD throw to McCoy); CW threw some beautiful passes down the field, like the one to Byrd (if memory serves) whereas TJax rarely threw downfield, and when he did, it was usually when an off-sides flag had been thrown, or into double coverage (the endzone pick), or to the wrong WR (to Rice instead of BMW singled on the outside). TJax had one nice throw downfield all pre-season, the long reception in the 4th pre-season game, by Tate. That was the exception, not the rule.
It’s not about one play, or one game; it’s the entire body of work, and a good QB has to be consistently good to be considered good. TJax is consistently bad, with occasionally a decent decision or throw, most often something routine. CW has been consistently good, making good decisions and good throws, with an occasional miss.
The only explanation I can offer is that PC made a commitment to TJax before signing him, and he (PC) is working hard to keep up his side of the bargain (starting TJax). It should have worked: TJax has the athletic capabilitiy and familiarity with the offense. If that is the case, if PC promised TJax the starting gig, then TJax is totaly screwing PC by not keeping up his end of the bargain (that is, playing like a starting NFL QB).
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
by Hawksince77 on Sep 7, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I meant to include the fact that CW was playing with an RB that didn't even make the team...
…with 3rd/4th string TEs (McCoy, Byrd), a rookie WR in Durham that was by many accounts overdrafted in the 5th round, and another UDFA rookie in Baldwin.
Remember when Hass’s excuse was that he didn’t have any NFL-caliber WRs to throw to?
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Ok, I will continue to chase this rabbit...
…. so you are saying that if PC didn’t make the commitment to T-Jax, then he wouldn’t have come here?
Also, how do you know CW gives them 2-4 more wins? So, basically, PC doesn’t want these 2-4 more wins?
Hass made that excuse? I am pretty sure you mean O-Line.
CW is the king nothing of preseason. The fact is, he couldn’t beat out an aging Hass last time and now he can’t beat out “the worst QB in NFL”. Big deal, he has made decent throws from clean pockets to his first reads.
Okay, yes, I am asserting the possibility that one of the conditions TJax required was to be brought in as the starter.
That wouldn’t be reall surprising – a lot of QBs would want that assurance. Also, PC would have been happy to give it because all he had was CW – a QB who, as you point out, couldn’t beat out Hass last year.
As far as my assertion about the wins, in my judgment TJax is playing somewhere near the bottom of the lower 3rd of starting QBs in the league. If CW started next week, I think he would rank around the bottom of the 2nd 3rd, say after the first third of the season. Why? Because for whatever reason, CW is playing his best football right now, and even PC has commented on it, very positively. Perhaps last year CW never felt like he had a chance to win the starting job and practiced accordingly. Maybe this year he sees the light, and is making his best effort. I don’t know, but CW is playing better then he has in the past, by all accounts, and based on his actions on the field.
As far as PC not wanting those wins, I am sure he does, but he is caught in a pickle – he made a commitment to TJax to start him. PC has done everything he can to support TJax, to bolster his confidence, and get the team behind him. But TJax, by his poor showing on the field, has split the fans, and he will split the team, if he remains the starter. Why? Because he is not a good NFL QB, and he is unlikely to become one anytime soon. That is why it is so easy to make this posts, these assertions. It’s not like TJax is a rookie (like Portis), or hasn’t been in the league long (both he and CW have been around for a good number of years), or that he hasn’t had his chance (he has started 20 games – well more than a full season). He is what he is, and it ain’t gonna get any better.
CW, on the other hand, we don’t know. So let’s say I’m right, and CW actually ranks in the lower second third, and TJax in the lower lower third. By the end of the season, TJax will still be in the lower lower third, whereas CW may play himself higher, say into the top 3rd of starting NFL QBs. We simply don’t know, because CW has never started more then one game in a row. If he was the week in, week out starter, and had the full support of his coaching staff and team mates, who knows what his limit is? I don’t.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
by Hawksince77 on Sep 7, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wan this to be the narrowest post ever....
Why? Because he is not a good NFL QB, and he is unlikely to become one anytime soon.
Same could be said about CW. He has shown nothing to merit a start, barring an injury. At least T-Jax has shown he can be average and I expect no less from him on the hawks. I do not subscribe to the notion that T-Jax will not improve as the season goes on and everyone is on the same page and the line gets more experience.
Sure, everyone gets a shot at starting, but the idea that Pete would promise T-Jax the starting job at QB where the guy had, at best, limited options? What was he going to say? No, I will just go start in the CFL?
Or, maybe Pete was so disgusted by what he had seen from CW that he had no choice.
(btw, if it’s not completely clear, I don’t actually care either way)
It seems like PC has never really supported CW...
…and perhaps for good reason. He didn’t impress last year in practice, and it could be that CW was always JS’s guy, and never PC (JS was the one that CW impressed way back when, as I recall).
PC has recently praised CW for his play, both on the field and in practice, with a different tone, one almost tinted with respect.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
I also have wondered about that
JS doesn’t make moves without PC, so how did this happen?
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
I don't know - other then this happened really early for both of them.
Maybe JS convinced PC to make the trade, and PC never felt obligated to make it work. And I don’t think (based on reports from camp) that CW did much to gain PC’s trust.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Nothing? He's feeling wan...?
Tough crowd.
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."
Yeah. In a way I hope it's sooner rather than later.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Sep 7, 2011 11:03 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep, I am one of those guys, so disrespect away...
CW is clearly the better QB right now, no question. And the irony is that TJax has started ten times more games then CW, and has had all the opportunity in the world to shine, and still plays with a dull sheen, whereas we have no idea what CW’s ceiling is, only that he is the better QB RIGHT NOW.
It’s possible (although perhaps not likely) that CW develops into the next Schaub, Brees, Brady or Hasselbeck (all guys taken after the first round in the draft). He has all the physical tools – what he is missing is the opportunity and game experience.
Could be, we’ve seen the best CW has to offer, which would put him in the same category as the Campbell’s, Smith’s, Henne’s, etc. – in other words, around a C- level NFL QB, but still miles ahead of TJax.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Charlie Whitehurst does not even belong in the NFL
That’s why the Chargers were smart enough to even let him near the field. It’s why he was absolutely decimated by the Giants in his first start last year when they didn’t even sack him through the first 3 quarters of thwe game. It’s why he only put up 16 points against an abysmal Rams team. Whitehurst is one of the worst backups in the NFL right now. Jackson, for all everyone wants to hate him, has decent career numbers (QB rating in the high 70’s, more TDs than INTs), and an ability to run. Whitehurst just has an ability to be terrible. Better than Jackson right now? Based on what? Uselessly meaningless pre-season games against other teams’ 2nd and 3rd tier units?
Whitehurst's win over the Rams last year proves he deserves a chance.
You don’t make much of an argument against CW other than saying that he sucks, which means you have no argument at all.
Your animus against Whitehurst is….unseemly.
Lets not fight about which QB is worse.
They’re both worse.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Your face is worse!
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Sep 7, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
You shut your mouth when your talking to me
by stufr on Sep 7, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about you learn to spell first!
by J.L. White on Sep 7, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, I thought I was participating in said joke.
But I don’t know what movie you’re referencing, so I just improvised. Nothing personal.
Plus its true that I can't spell and have incredibly poor grammer
I laugh at all the grammer arguments around here cause I can’t contribute at all.
Misspelling grammar is usually a dead give away.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
by hazbro24 on Sep 7, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And there goes the 'grammar hammer'
This is now officially the nerd thread of the month. And yes, I am guilty of wielding said hammer. I’d rather read bad grammer than chatspeak anyday, at least you can figure out what the hell someone is trying to say.
Duck hunting season has officially begun.
by S_o_Smith on Sep 7, 2011 11:26 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If worse comes to worst, sure, but it's hardly too much to ask for both.
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."
I know; I'm already adamant that the Seahawks sign Dabid Garrard.
But ruthlessly shitting al over Whitehurst is just sooooo “day after the Giants game.” Ancient history.
Wouldn't have mattered who started against the Giants that day.
We got mauled in every part of the game, and didn’t resemble a NFL team that day.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
There was epic Whitehurst hate after that game.
Which was ridiculous, since we were down 21-0 before the 1st quarter ended….just like you said, it didn’t matter who started at QB that day.
You know what's sad?
I got plane tickets to Seattle and tickets to the game as a birthday present, and it’s the only Seahawks game I’ve ever seen in person in my life.
by NotBAMF on Sep 7, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is sad.
I’ve been to about 12 games and had the good fortune to see zero losses.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Well I live in Pittsburgh (as stated below on here, so I apologize for sounding like a broken record)
i could conceivably get tickets to the Steeler game this year, but…I like to not get beaten half-to-death by idiotic Steeler fans.
Oh, you don't have to tell me.
I love my family and all, but by-and-large, Steeler fans are the biggest know-nothings in sports. And huge, huge hypocrites.
Don't do it man...just step away...it's not worth it...think of your kids...
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
The city of Seattle is really neat, though!
So at least the rest of the trip was nice.
I must be a good luck charm.
Was sitting in the end zone where Leon housed two last year against the Chargers.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
We're very unlikely to sign Garrard
He is way too interception-prone for Carroll’s tastes, and I don’t think our current QB coordinator/former Jags OC likes him, since he, in fact, benched Garrard in his final year there
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Me wanting the Seahawks to sign David Garrard is more about Tarvaris Jackson than David Garrard.
With TJax, the ends just don’t justify the means.
I agree, Garrard is a much better option at QB than Tarvaris
But he does not fit what our FO wants out of a QB.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Sooo guess who scored FEWER points against that same Rams defense with the same supporting cast?
Matt Hasselbeck.
"It was a dream come true to be the quarterback in Seattle; Bigger and better than anything I could have dreamed of." -Matthew Hasselbeck
I don't know that CW is clearly better
We’ve seen a lot less of him, and in those less games he’s been fairly inconsistent but flashed some promise. Tarvaris and Charlie are pretty similar players in skillsets and weaknesses, athleticism vs pocket presence aside, I don’t know that Charlie presents such a clear upgrade. It’s hard to draw any overly definitive conclusions on Charlie based on two games. He showed in those two he can manage a game and occasionally complete a deep pass, and he did the same in this preseason. Can he do it a full season? Maybe?
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
CW is not "clearly better" than TJ right now.
He’s clearly better in YOUR OPINION. There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary from watching the preseason that they are very similar, and in fact, the difference between them may be so small as to be negligible. As to which is the better, who really knows?
FACT: TJ played well against 2nd string in game 3.
Fact, OTHER than the int, he played well against the 1st string in game 4. Fact, CW would have had 2 ints against the 2nd string if not for easy drops in the endzone in the past 2 games by DB’s of the other team. This seems conveniently forgotten by Charlie fanboys.
Charlie has had a LOT more time playing against the 2’s and 3’s this pre-season than TJ, but the reverse is not true, Charlie has not had any real time against the 1’s. So FACT, we don’t know which is better, but there is evidence, given both succeeding against the 2nd teamers, and both throwing what were very poor decision passes that should have been ints or were against 1st or 2nd teamers, that they may be very similar.
Also, one of the regular writers on here that wrote up some of Charlies series in a post this past week noted Charlie pretty much went with his 1st read, and stared them down on his successful drives, but could afford to as the recievers were consistently open and he had almost no pressure on him. FACT.
So you can “think” what you want, but the reality is, the jury is still out on which is the “better” of the two shitty qb’s, both of whom have a likely upside of being mediocre in ideal conditions.
by BlueThruAndThru on Sep 7, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
You are correct, it is my opinion, based on evaluating the facts you mention in as full a context as I am able.
So my conclusions differ from yours. Fair enough. You could be right.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
But what is really cool about this discussion/argument...
…is that it will become clear in so many weeks who is right, and who is wrong.
If you are right, by the end of the season, there will be no discernable difference between the level of play between TJax and CW. If I am right, it will be clear that CW is the better QB, by far. Or, if I am really wrong, Tjax will tear it up and play really well.
We’ll see.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
So to be clear, here is my prediction:
TJax starts the season at QB and plays poorly. At some point fairly early (say within the first five games) he gets hurt or benched, and CW comes in to play.
CW plays well enough that TJax stays on the bench, even after he recovers from his injury.
If I am wrong, TJax plays well enough to remain the starter the entire season. Or if he is injured, he has played well enough to come back in after he has recovered. Or, when CW starts, he totally sucks and so TJax comes back in, or in the worst case, Portis.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
by Hawksince77 on Sep 7, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If I am correct...
Both will get hurt in the first game and Josh Portis will start his storied “Brady-esque” career to finally win the super bowl for us!
by goatweed on Sep 7, 2011 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nah
When his contract comes up, the Colts will cut Manning and sign Portis to a 10 year, $140 million deal, because our star free agents prefer hunting moose in the midwest than sticking with the team that made them.
by Clendy on Sep 7, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Shows what you know, stupid. There are no moose in Indianapolis.
The race cars scared them away.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Sep 7, 2011 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for some objectivity in these CW fanboy days...
I do disagree that it necessarily follows that they are two shitty QBs… I think between the two of them Seattle is about 25th in the league right now and hopefully when things settle out they will be mid pack by the end of the year. TJ has won half his NFL games and the Vikings were not that good during the whole window of time; so statements that he “not an NFL QB” or “worse QB in the league” are at the very least overstated for whatever reason.
My prediction; because ya all care, is that beginning of the season will be rough and CW will get 3-4 starts by which time the shine will have worn off and everyone will understand why TJ was brought in in the first place. TJ will start the final 6 games and do well enough that there will be some debate whether the take the QB available at the 9th pick…
I am not a "CW fanboy". I am a fan of good Seahawk football. We can agree to disagree...
…but I ain’t anybody’s ‘boy’.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
And if TJax wasn't playing like shit...
…we wouldn’t even be having this debate.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
You may not be a fanboy...
but you certainly are not looking at this objectively. Either that or you are entirely too concerned about being “right/wrong”. In that case you are just a boy…
(apologize in advance if that sounds like a personal attack)
I don't even understand this comment. Not objective? I have provided an argument...
…one based on observations and judgment. Not sure what you mean, and how my comments are any less ‘objective’ then anyone else’s.
And about being concerned with being right or wrong – I have (and will continue) to admit the possibility of being wrong about just about anything we discuss. It’s football – very tough to be sure about anything.
And finally, how being concerned with being right or wrong makes me a ‘boy’ is a real head-scratcher (scratch scratch).
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
I honestly apologize
I wasn’t specifically calling you or anyone else a fanboy. I pulled the term from elsewhere in the forum.
I do stand by my point that (in my opinion) at this time in the forum opinions drastically overly positive on CW and overly negative on TJ.
I am very irritated because (in my opinion) the QB dialogue re TJ has been completely unjustified at this point. If you want to say he is a horrible QB after week 9 or 10 the more power to you. The fact is almost all young QBs don’t look good playing the game. TJ won half of his games on an average team (yes average, Favre and a great year; but, the years before and after… average). TJ made some bad reads et al but typical of everyone not named Bradford or Ryan. I simply do not feel there is factual/historical support for the level of negativity being leveled at TJ.
The fact that you made an argument supporting a position does not make it an objective position. Attorneys, newscasters, journalist, and politicians all make arguments supporting a position which typically is not an objective one.
In my opinion, CW is a wannabe poor man’s Jay Cutler. He throws a pretty ball down field that gets everyone excited; but, still fails to get it done. He is a non entity in the locker room and doesn’t make teammates better. Yeah, and that St Louis game, it was the last game of the season and the coaching staff had the game plan dumbed down to the HS QB level. I think that says a lot.
I honestly accept. Yes, that was the second time the term was used following one of my posts, so...
Anyway, I found your post very interesting, in that you perceive a strong pro-CW bias (at least in the comments) in this forum. That is certainly true of my posts, but my impression has been quite different. I have been consistently attacked (not personally, but in an appropriate way) for my evaluation of TJax throughout the pre-season, this entire thread a perfect example.
Without doing the analysis (that would be WAYYY too objective) it seems that the tenor has been far more ‘wait and see, TJax just needs more of a chance, the o-line needs to be better,’ then out and out criticisiing his play as I have done, or his demonstrated lack of competence on the field, as I have done, and most posters don’t rave about CW (and I am only asserting that he is better then TJax, but that isn’t saying much) but instead, simply point out (as you have done) that we have no reason to believe he is any better.
It could be that I am way off, and I certainly don’t claim any authority in the matter. Just watching the games and reading stuff and coming to whatever conclusions I come to.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Another thing. It's not really a democracy, in that we count how many times one opinion or another has been aired.
You could be a majority of one, if you are the most correct, or profound, or even interesting.
Point being, you seem to be responding with irritation (your words) at a perceived bias that differes from yours. I find that odd. Especially considering the fact that it seems like you are relating a majority opinion, or at the very least, have lots of support for your position. So not sure why you are so ‘very irritated.’
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
The odd thing about your argument
Is that you seem to be saying we have no footage of Tarvaris to look at other than these preseason game. We do, and he’s looked both bad and inconsistent his entire career.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
In absolute terms, sure
But relative to Charlie?
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
There isn't enough footage of Charlie to make an equally definitive statement
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
We’re not in a position to make definitive statements about the relative prospects of either guy. Yet.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
We can
He said relative prospects. You can’t fairly compare because the equation is unequal.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 8, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, all we have is footage of him being bad and inconsistent.
That’s only part of the argument. We need to keep playing him until we see footage of him performing really well, and then we’ll see the other side of things.
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."
by shams on Sep 7, 2011 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Additionally, what we (as Seahawk fans) are not seeing, is all the advantages that TJax supposedly brings manifest themselves on the field:
His ‘rocket arm,’ his overall athleticism, his familiarity with the offense, the offensive coordinator, and Sidney Rice.
We would expect (as Seahawk fans) much more sometime during the pre-season, some inkling of why Tjax is the better option at QB. What we have seen instead is superior play from CW, a player without the same advantages, and playing with lower skilled players, some of whom may never make an NFL career (Baldwin, McCoy, Clayton, for example) whereas TJax had at his disposal players that could start for any team in the league (Rice, BMW, Miller, Washington).
So we (as Seahawk fans) are understandably confused.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Some agreement
I would agree that it is human nature to mentally amplify the number of posts that disagree with your opinion; and I am sure that may be part of it, BMW at least would agree with me that there is an overall anti TJ bias.
I never said there is no footage of TJ prior to this year. I was talking about his prior playing time. I don’t disagree with “inconsistent;” however, what I saw was typical of young QB play and TJ had his share of shining moments and good games. I am saying the prior footage is better than being portrayed.
I was also frustrated by the preseason showing. There were about 3 plays I thought he should have gotten the ball off to a WR running free and maybe 4 poor plays (missed slant to Baldwin, pick in the Endzone, grounding, and probably a 4th I don’t recall) and perhaps I will look back and see those as a glimpse of ineptitude; I also think he dealt pretty well with what he was dealing with. Hass certainly would have gotten the ball out of his hands more; but, would have also turned the ball over more which is what PC is trying to avoid.
You know, I think you hit on something really important when you wrote:
“I was also frustrated by the preseason showing.”
I don’t know about everyone else, but my expectations for Tjax were way too high, and I was very disappointed with his play, and that disappointment has been exaserbated with each passing pre-season game. I keep looking for a flash of excellence, anything to grasp, and found instead only ineptitude.
The one really nice play TJax made was his long throw to Tate. What was particularly impressive was that it took place on the next drive (I think even the next play) after his horrible interception in the endzone that ended the first drive.
But that’s it. The rest of his completions/successful plays were largely routine. And those routine plays intermingled with really bad ones.
So yes, frustrated and disappointed I am.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Yup
Even then, there would likely be strong contingent looking for a QBotF in the draft.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Sexy Rex? Really?
Shoot me in the face with a hammer of balls
by B.B.Finnegan on Sep 7, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
It's Sexy Rexy, actually...
Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"
Come ON
Dalton is NOT that good.
"It was a dream come true to be the quarterback in Seattle; Bigger and better than anything I could have dreamed of." -Matthew Hasselbeck
Sorry, you qualified that statement.
"It was a dream come true to be the quarterback in Seattle; Bigger and better than anything I could have dreamed of." -Matthew Hasselbeck
Your arguments are basically debunked by the fact that you say Alex Smith is definitively better than TJ
Since Smith’s career numbers are definitively and undeniably worse than TJ’s in every single category.
Andy Dalton and Cam Newton will likely be worse in their rookie year
And I don’t expect much from Dalton’s career, so perhaps Dalton is definitely worst.
The rest of ‘em? Not really. Campbell is definitely better than Tarvaris, so is Alex. Luke McCown is a bit of an unknown, and I never really sat down and focused on a Henne game so I don’t know much about him.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Do you have any backing whatsoever for arguing that Alex is definitely better than TJ?
About 3 minutes of research proved the opposite when I checked.
If you think looking at someone's career stats is "research", sure
Alex Smith played on vastly inferior teams than Tarvaris did. Last year, he performed as a much better QB. That’s what the tape tells me. Advanced stats agree, Alex Smith has a -5.4 DVOA, Tarvaris -31. Right now, Tarvaris is the inferior quarterback.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 8, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Are you seriously basing this off Jackson's 1 game started, and 58 passes thrown in 2010? That is so absurd I don't even know how to respond.
By the same token, I will argue that TJ’s DVOA of +81 over 21 passes in 2009 means he is the best QB of all time. Or in 2008, it was +10 over 5 games started.
You can argue for the tape, sure, but I haven’t watched tape of Smith this offseason. I know that Alex Smith was terrible the past 2 years.
There is nothing definite about the quality of Jackson OR Smith. It is ambiguous at best.
After that many years, it's pretty definitive
Jackson threw enough passes to see that he was not significantly improved from earlier years. It’s the same logic as applies to this pre-season. He continues to look like the same, fairly awful QB, with obvious gaps in his play. Again, he played on much better teams than Alex Smith (which you conveniently continue to ignore) yet has not thrown better with any consistency, nor was he ever in charge of the teams, as 2008 exemplifies, where he has about 20 attempts a game, which is terribly low.
Alex Smith hasn’t been cripplingly bad since his rookie season, and has been a very average but not terrible QB over the past two years. He is established as a fairly average, manageable NFL QB. The numbers quite clearly show that, for someone who is as dead set on you as you are. Unless you believe a statement about what QBs they are now is by definition a statement on their careers. It’s different if you’d asked two years ago, but we know what Tarvaris is, which is awful, and we know what Alex is, which is below average to average.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 8, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I just hope the D-line is productive against the run again.
If we can shut down the run on 1st and 2nd, you can get creative on 3rd and 7 and longer.
I think the Seahawks will field a good run defense. It's those 3rd downs we need to be worried about.
About the 2011 Seahawks: "And if I laugh at any mortal thing, tis that I may not weep." Byron
Our D was one of the worst units I've ever seen in the NFL last year
I have no faith they could stop traffic if you gave them a stop sign.
Our starters or our backups?
Because our DL lost 3 of 4 starters for significant chunks of the season (and the depth behind them was lousy).
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
You need to watch more NFL then, for more years
I can think of some Seahawks teams alone that have had worse D’s than last year. Our starters were actually fairly OK.
Like 2009's for example.
"It was a dream come true to be the quarterback in Seattle; Bigger and better than anything I could have dreamed of." -Matthew Hasselbeck
Oh, you said "D", not "DL"
Yeah, our defense was pretty bad last year.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Sep 7, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, the whole unit
Our DL might have been the best part of that terrible, terrible unit.
Two terribles!? TWO?
The 2000 team had a way worse D.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
It takes more than a sign to make traffic stop.
It takes a sign with the full force of the government behind it to get people’s attention.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Defense doesn't really work that way
If you can get no pressure from your front four there is no reason for teams to ever run more than a handful of times. If we excel at run defense competently coordinated teams will ignore the run and pick us apart in the flats and occasional long passes. We’re terrible against the flats and lateral RB passes, and you can basically use those to substitute the rungame.
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking later in games
if we can keep it close, when the other teams are trying to grind the clock.
Yes I agree..competent coordinators are going to through when Bryant, Branch, mebane and Clemons are the front 4, because with the exception of Clemons, none of them will get pressure.
Since when has Alex Smith ever been even REMOTELY close to average?
“As long as random player X on team X suddenly becomes brilliantly, insanely better than he has ever been, he will be head and shoulders above the other teams’ players.”
I don't care if we go 1-15
as long as we beat the Steelers. That’s all I require.
by NotBAMF on Sep 7, 2011 9:18 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I live in Pittsburgh.
Steeler fans are insufferable know-nothings. I just want them to be unhappy.
by NotBAMF on Sep 7, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
4-0 is how we will start Q1 in my world
We will be know on offense as
- A great play-action team
- Three headed monster running attack
- Having “Twin Towers” for red-zone attacks
- Tricksters lined up in the slot
- A running QB who is hard to contain
And on defense
- Shut down run D
- Corners who cast shadows over opposing receivers
- Best young safties in the league
- Brilliant coaching, who have finally figured out how to use Curry
- A hard hitting mother fucker called “Heater”
- A guy named Leo, who causes shit stains in the underpants of opposing QB’s
And on special teams
They are know for “taking it to the house!”
Don’t even think about killin my buzz, you buzz-killers you! It’s regular season baby!
by GnarlyHawk on Sep 7, 2011 10:01 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Pass me some of what you are drinking
by Ratman44 on Sep 7, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ha, you bet!
Blind optimism, what the hell – why not.
Hell Yeah!!!
We’ve got the rest of the season to be pessimistic and cynical, for four more days optimism reigns!
by creid on Sep 7, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I want to live in GnarlyHawkWorld
Where the Seahawks can go 4-0, the sun never sets, and rainbows are made out of fluffy kittens.
by Buster! on Sep 7, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Some positives for game 1
I would like to bring a few positives to take into game 1
- We pretty much got Singletary fired last year, first game of the season.
- We have an above average run game (I consider it best in the division)
- We have little pass rush, but SF O-Line is just as pathetic (pillow fight)
- Our combination of good run D, hard hitting safeties and LBs will not make the short game as easy as some predict for SF.
- I will not judge Tarvaris Jackson purely on preseason play where he had no help. He is definitely NOT the worst QB in NFL, making that statement before week 1 is absurd (bring it Beekers)
This is the first game of the season. Sure, I don’t hold much hope for winning against the Steelers away from home but I can’t believe most have pretty much written off the hawks vs. SF.
Just wanted to balance this thread. Go ahead, do your worst/best.
by goatweed on Sep 7, 2011 10:21 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I think they have a shot in SF
Our O-line is real scary…Okung what 1 series in the preseason, Maybe no Gallery…no continuity at all. You might have Unger making line calls, with what 2 games experience.
I think it all rests on the O-line, if they can do anything, we have a chance.
Don't be surprised if Patrick Willis
is the leading scorer in that game.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
That dog is very angry that you are watching the Steelers.
You should definitely stop. Actually, if you’re watching the Steelers I hope he mauled you.
"It's okay to have an open mind, just not so open that your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan (well, a lot of guys)
by Johnny Slick on Sep 7, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Watching the stealers
is OK if you are watching the Packers beat them. I’ve watched it several times. It never gets old.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
by hazbro24 on Sep 7, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
That dog is angry because someone has got his ears and won't give them back.
He is not amused.
by jamingo on Sep 7, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
this one too
Duck hunting season has officially begun.
by S_o_Smith on Sep 7, 2011 11:30 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
this one too
Duck hunting season has officially begun.
by S_o_Smith on Sep 7, 2011 11:30 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
That is an awesome dog
Formerly Known As Vasilii
by Thomas Beekers on Sep 7, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I assume that's your dog....
Ever take him to Husky games? My malamute is getting lonely out there, haven’t seen many others the last couple years..
Duck hunting season has officially begun.
Best run game in the division?
That sounds like a stretch to me in a division with Frank Gore and Steven Jackson. I love our backs but Lynch is not on that level yet.
I was also really impressed with the rookie RB that the Niners got. Forget his name but he looked really good in the one pre-season game I saw against the Raiders.
by Billy Showbiz on Sep 7, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd be happy at 1-3
If the one win was against the Steelers.
If I was laying money on it, I'd pick 1-3 or 0-4.
With week one being our best shot for a victory, followed by week 3.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
4-0.
SF has a truly awful Oline, Alex Smith under center, and truly overrated WRs. Seattle has Dline maulers, strong and fast LBs, and a talented, large secondary.
SF has a bunch of new starters on D, and Willis is the only significant talent. The rest will get run over, or run by, by our freaks of nature on the way to their endzone.
Leon, Golden and Baldwin can all take it to the house, every time they touch the ball on Special Teams. Who do they kick to?
shittsburg and their douche-y fans do not take us the least bit seriously, and we pull a regular season Chicago on their asses, sending rapistburger to IR and torching their 300 year old defense for 500 total yards and 58 points (pick 6s and return TDs added for good measure).
Arizona looks even worse up here than they did last year, as they have no running game, no line, and only Fitz to worry about. Add to that a defense that was gutted in the offseason, and we gut them and hang them out to dry.
Jones and Roddy White get a rude awakening that they are no longer lining up across from Kelly Jennings. They each get close to 100 yards, but that will be pretty much the entire offensive production, as dead legs from their long-assed flight to the Clink leave them wondering what happened. Matty is so icy that he constantly has to dump off to the shallow routes, which are immediately mugged by a disciplined Curry, a well and truly rehabilitated Leroy, KamBam, Bad Bones and absolutely crushed by Red and the Heater.
Freaks of nature abound on this roster, and when everyone’s tired, we’re still freaks of nature.
4-0, beeee-yotches!!! 4-0!!!!
I happen to think 3-1 is not a far-fetched start.
But I think 1-3 is more likely.
Manufacturing protection and game planning could make us look different. Competitive anyway.
If we happen to go 2-2 I think many would be pleased. Also would probably expect the wins to be in the division, but I bet it would be the home games.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Sep 7, 2011 11:00 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
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