Black Monday Odds and Ends
by Benne on Jan 2, 2012 11:02 AM PST
in Seahawks News & Rumors
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PrintToday is "Black Monday", the day after the last regular season game, and the traditional time when struggling teams fire their struggling head coaches. The name sounds a lot darker than it really is--there's no stock market crash or overzealous shoppers to contend with--but it's caught on for whatever reason.
Jack Del Rio, Todd Haley and Tony Sparano are already long gone, so they don't even get the honor of celebrating this tradition. Two other coaches have, however, and there may be more to come today.
Raheem Morris got the axe in one of the more predictable firings after his Bucs suffered one of the most epic collapses in recent memory. The team looked like it had so much promise at the end of '10, and by the end of '11 they looked like one of the worst teams in the NFL. Not many coaches are going to survive a step backwards that big. Combine that with Morris' abrasive personality and tendency to pass the buck, and this announcement was only a formality.
The other coach to fall today is Steve Spagnuolo, who wasn't able to steer the Rams out of neutral. Now some people will argue that it wasn't totally his fault, that the talent level is still awful, and that reason is why GM Billy Devany was also given the boot. Spags is still a talented defensive mind and I don't think this is a career-killer for him, but a 10-38 record in three years and record-low attendance is not going to look good on his resume.
There may be more to come on the chopping block today--Jim Caldwell, Norv Turner, Pat Shurmur, Lovie Smith, Leslie Frazier, etc. I'll keep you posted here while we enjoy the bowl games.
Update: The Polians are out in Indy. This makes Caldwell a dead man walking. That was a joke. Because Caldwell is already dead, you see.
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I think Spagnuolo will be a good D-coordinator.
And if we want to keep Cable out from others’ hands, we can always promote him to OC and fire Bevell.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Hell yes
Bevell can go be OC somewhere else. He’s only on a two-year deal.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
The thing that strikes me is that there is going to be an abundance of talented assistant coaching prospects
Coaches that would probably fit here. The question is – do we really want to continue to churn there or is continuity more important?? Do another new O-coordinator? I really don’t know.
Churn it buddy.
If we’re getting a new QB we might as well get a new coordinator to go with him. I mean, hey: we got TJ because he knew Bevell’s crappy system.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Exactly.
The lockout basically blew everything up in smoke.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
I'm all for churn
But there’s a lot of coordinators/assistants in our team that I just outright do not like, starting with Bevell, Bradley and Wash.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
I want Norv Turner as OC
Hurry up and fire him, San Diego.
Early rumors have him staying
To improve, they should try to become the musical southern cal of the west. - bRuins Nation poster on the Stanford band.
It looks like it's going to be a clean slate in Indy. The Polians are gone:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/02/colts-clean-house-polians-are-out/
I imagine Caldwell will be gone as well (though he just held a press conference where he said that nothing would change).
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 2, 2012 11:56 AM PST reply actions
If the FO and HC are changing, a teardown is likely in order
and I don’t see a reason why they’d want to keep Manning around for it.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 2, 2012 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
True. Is this the beginning of the end for Peyton in Indy?
“Where will Peyton go?” could be the most interesting (and annoying) off-season stories ever.
follow @casetines
by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 2, 2012 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
The difference between Favre and Manning is...
Favre single-handedly pimped out his own circus three years in a row (four, even), whereas Manning is staying quiet and just working on his rehab.
I agree it’s going to get annoying listening to the Manning talk for 8 months, but at least Manning himself is just doing his job, as opposed to being Lady FaFa.
Early money has to be on the Jets or the Skins.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
About time Polian left
Years of shit drafting and building their team’s success on one guy would fall them once that one guy was not available.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
I don't think Bradley needs to be fired
But I’m still not convinced he’s the guy to make this defense elite either.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
I'm not Bradley's biggest fan
but I think this D will be perfect with an upgrade at Hill’s spot and the addition of a good situational pass rusher. We really needed Curry to be the Von Miller he should have been.
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by Wayward Llama on Jan 2, 2012 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Would he though?
He’s never been a DC on an NFL level (he was DB coach with the Bucs) and when he was the de facto DC with the Bucs (once that old deadbeat was fired) his defenses all basically sucked. Name recognition, but doesn’t seem that hot to me, especially since his strength is already our coach’s strength (DBs).
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
And no more Tampa Bay shit either
I’m sick of Monte Kiffin’s “amazing Tampa 2”.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
Do we really play much "Tampa 2"?
We use a ton of Cover-1.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 2, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
We don't
And we’re bad at it.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
Cover-1 or Tampa 2?
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 2, 2012 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
Tampa-2
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
Cool. There was some ambiguity in the subject of your answer.
It seems like there are as many variations on the “Monte Kiffin-inspired defense” as there are to the WCO.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 2, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely
But our defense is pretty far removed from Monte Kiffin’s ideas, as was Raheem’s Tampa Bay defenses.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting, then, that Bradley is here almost entirely (supposedly) on Kiffin's recommendation.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but I don't think this is really a Bradley defense, other than him calling plays
We’re a primarily one-gap-and-wait, plus-sized front 7, man cover defense. I don’t think you can get much further from Kiffin’s one-gap-attack, small-quick front 7, zone cover defense. Not to mention Kiffin liked to keep the same personnel snap-to-snap which we really don’t. The only thing we really share with Kiffin is being a turnover-hungry, bend-don’t-break D.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
You know, I didn't follow CFB when PC was at USC
But wasn’t linebacker play key to the success of his defenses? Guys like Cushing, Lofa, Maualuga, Matthews, etc.?
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 6:12 PM PST up reply actions
For sure
But I think PC has shown more flexibility than he was given credit for moving back into the NFL. A common problem for college coaches is not being able to adapt, but that doesn’t seem to be a problem for PC. LBs just aren’t that important in the modern NFL for 4-3 defenses, and he recognizes that. Our current Leo End concept is very different from USC’s Elephant LB, too.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
This would be a really interesting study, comparing Pete's defense now to his defense at USC.
I would attempt to undertake it, but I still lack the technical know-how on the defensive side, and didn’t follow USC closely enough.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, me neither, on following USC
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
I think our bend-don't-break D isn't by design as much as an issue of talent availability.
In my biggest wet dreams, I see the D moving towards the Ravens model, with superb athletes dominating the run and pass rushing, using any system (often multiple fronts) that gets the players into position to make big plays or limit yards.
In reality, I love the flexibility the defensive brain-trust has shown thus far: shifting towards a more traditional 4-3 with Brock and Clemons as DEs after Red got hurt, the exotic DB-heavy playbooks last year, the big nickle this year, Mebane playing two slightly different roles the past two years. Really shifting based on the best talent on the team, but it’s tough to predict what defensive talent will be available in the draft that will really interest this team. I really think that besides QB, the front 7 is the most in need of new talent, and I really expect to see that as an emphasis in this draft. And Free Agency could be a factor. When we see who we get, I think we’ll know more what the actual plan is for this defense. I hope it’s my wet dream, this is already the funnest Seattle defense I’ve ever watched. Anything with Cortez Kennedy involved I was too young to understand.
by cashless on Jan 2, 2012 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well put
Flexibility is always a pro, and like you I hope the whole one-gap-and-wait/bend-don’t-break defensive attitude, which is “reactive” rather than “proactive”, will go the way of the dodo.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
I also don't think we've seen the offensive plan either, just bits and pieces
That’s why I don’t throw in with the people who say we can’t go forward with Tarvaris. A lot of QB’s would look pretty bad in the situation he was in.
Both sides of the ball have been limited by both injuries and talent deficiencies. Offense especially with how bad the OL looked with the rookies in, and Gallery’s mysterious abdominal injury. Rice tore his shoulder before the season even started, and even with a broken wing looked like a serious difference-maker to our offense. If we get even average pass blocking from the OL without having to leave Miller in to block next season, and have a healthy Sydney Rice, the offense could actually look good with the current QB still on the team. With a strong run game like we have, not sending Miller out on routes really limits the pass ability of this offense. A generalization, but generally true over the season. He finally started getting involved at the end of the season a little. T-Jack has the arm for the deep ball that I think is eventually in the plans, the athleticism to move around, and a lot more accuracy than we expected. And although there are parts of his decision-making we don’t like while he’s under fire, he’s really limited the interceptions. With a healthy Rice and some decent pass blocking outside of Okung, coupled with the fierce run game, that would take enough pressure off of T-Jack for him to focus on his strengths. Exactly what happened for Alex Smith this year.
The Lynch contract situation is pretty important. But besides him, the players I mentioned are pretty much already a part of the team. Unless we don’t have a decent RT on the team, but I’m hoping that with a full off-season Cable can play with all the toys we got him this year and make one emerge. So although I’d love a better QB, and we all would, I think we can have an above-average offense with mostly the parts we already have.
by cashless on Jan 2, 2012 10:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We're going to be haunted by injuries almost every year
Because every NFL team is. You can’t really ignore it as a real, permanent factor.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
How can a person find out the rankings of "Players on IR" for each team or "Most injured teams" kind of list?
follow @casetines
by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 3, 2012 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
PFW does regular overviews
We’re pretty high up on their rankings, so normally we’d regress to the mean next season.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
This isn't up-to-date, obviously
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
I'd really love to see some serious analysis of whether or not injuries occur more to certain teams.
and WHY.
I still think that Seattle’s weather, and maybe playing surface, is a factor. I’m no doctor, but it strikes me that cold, wet weather leads to injuries more than other weather might.
Playing surface probably plays into it.
Taking risks on players who had injury concerns (Rice, Thurmand III come to mind) to optimize resources while quickly building a contender also plays into it. But there are too many factors and random aspects to pull many meaningful causes out.
One example, the cold (in theory) is going to cause more muscle problems, so you would see pulls and tears because they tighten quicker after impacts or overexertion. But we had a couple of Labrum tears in August, pretty much summer weather. The pec tear by Okung that was directly a result of the impact he took, not weather. Broken ankle or foot for Mike Williams? Again, not weather.
Pretty much, if we saw a run of muscle problems that made a big enough pattern, we could make a judgement on weather, or another pattern might point to the surface or strength & conditioning coach. But ours looks like the result of random violence, pretty much a microcosm of the dangers of playing in the NFL.
I think FBO has concluded injuries pretty much always regress to the mean
There are no noteworthy exceptions. Obviously your fat guys get injured quicker if you play on turf, but that doesn’t seem to be that big a factor.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 4, 2012 5:05 AM PST up reply actions
True, but our offense had no cornerstones.
That’s where the talent deficiencies part of my statement comes in. We had pretty much no outstanding talent on the offense last season outside of Okung.
If any players could be a cornerstone going into the season, they would be Okung and Rice. Maybe Miller, but a TE’s impact is not often enough to build an offense around. Both started the season dinged up, and both finished on the IR, but when we saw them playing the offense looked vastly different than the offense we saw without them.
Our OL depth and WR depth turned out to be much improved, and Robinson was a far better FB than he has been in the past, but besides maybe Unger and Lynch who outside of Okung and Rice looked like they have a good chance of being special, a real difference maker? Tate showed flashes, Baldwin was steady and reliable, with the occasional burst of speed on a long run after catch, Lockette had those deep balls at the end of the season. We proved we have depth this season, but the only players that could help make the offense look “great” were injured.
I’d argue that those two players are the single biggest assets to our passing game, and by far the most important to giving a QB a good chance of putting up above average production. That’s where the injuries limited our offense in my opinion.
You are right, injuries happen every year. But for a rebuilding team, with only a few meaningful assets, key injuries will affect the on-field talent more quickly.
My main point was that playcalling is limited to what an offense can do successfully, and a QB’s options are also limited by that. QB production is far more connected to system and talent than individual QB ability. And our offense was capable of neither passing nor running to begin the season, so I don’t think it’s fair to point the finger at playcalling or QB entirely for the lack of passing game brilliance.
I'm not going to make a bold statement one way or the other, but I wonder how much of that opinion amongst fans has to do with..
Tampa Bay → Def Coach → SUCCESS!
Terrible defense this year, average defense last year, terrible defense two years ago.
follow @casetines
by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 2, 2012 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Vindication, thy name is Me.
Not sure if it’s all Spagnoula’s fault; everyone in the sports media were so quick to anoint the Rams as division champs, while I wondered how much they REALLY had on defense (not much, it seems), and questioned how much Bradford would truly improve from his rookie season (and, believe it or not, I didn’t have high hopes for Mike Sims-Walker).
I’m not say that I’m the only one who noticed that the Rams were bereft of talent before the season….but I like being right, especially in regards to a division rival sucking.
by J.L. White on Jan 2, 2012 1:26 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Also, massive amounts of crippling injury.
Everyone seems to forget that.
by the other side on Jan 2, 2012 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Injuries!?
Seattle had just as many injuries as the Rams. The injuries to the Rams CB position is unheard of but they were not very good when healthy.
by Redzone59 on Jan 2, 2012 2:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
While I agree that Seattle's depth is remarkable and very nice to have, the Rams have potential if/when healthy.
Everyone seems to completely write them off.
by the other side on Jan 2, 2012 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't write their defense off
But it’s hard to see how that offense will get turned around soon, especially if Bradford is given the three-coordinators-in-three-years treatment.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
It would also help him to have a few sure handed receivers.
Drops were a huge problem in the small amount of Rams viewing I put myself through.
by the other side on Jan 2, 2012 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
That front 7 is quite talented and stayed pretty healthy, iirc
And they still REEEALLY sucked against the run. Granted, they’re built to rush the passer.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
Because Caldwell is already dead, you see.
Yes! Excellent.
Wanted: Franchise Quarterback
It's Great To Be a Florida Gator!
Man, the Colts really are going to be an interesting offseason story
As “low hanging fruit” as it may be.
by jhmg16 on Jan 2, 2012 3:34 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Why does everyone hate bevell?
I think he did an ok job considering the injuries and talent level.
And also
Why dont we run the no huddle more often, our passing game was dominant when we ran it aginst atlanta and arizona
No huddle/hurry-up isn't sustainable
Wears out offense and keeps defense on the field too long. It’s not a way to run a full-time offense.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
Let's be clear, "no huddle" and "hurry up" are not synonyms
No huddle refers to setting up plays without entering the huddle, making it very difficult for a defense to change personnel. P Manning runs this extremely well in indy, but consistently will take the play clock under 5 seconds before the snap. This puts tremendous strain on the opposing defense as players can’t get breathers on the sideline, always have to be alert and in position in case of the early snap, and suffer decreased anticipation of the snap count because the qb may be lined up under center for 25+ seconds. A game manager like Manning consistently would run 6-8 minutes gametime off the clock in the no huddle on a scoring drive. No huddle also may contain many more run plays than pass plays. Quick snaps occasionally can be utilized to take advantage of a lax defense or a tired/shaken player.
Hurry up refers specifically to trying to get down field in the least amount of time, quick snaps, sideline plays, mostly passing, and using a no huddle approach.
Sadly, the iteration seahawks fans got to see this year was more hurry up, and it did put our defense at a disadvantage. I do not know where the fault lies, with the OC, QB coach, or QB.
But let’s not use the phrases interchangeably.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
I don't even know if they do open huddle anymore in the NFL.
Where its’ sorta of like the no huddle, but the offense gets set in a base formation and the OC radioes the play to the QB, and etc.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
I know they're not
That’s why I addendumed “hurry-up” to a question about “no huddle”
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 10:06 PM PST up reply actions
not trying to be critical
Just trying to add specificity to the discussion.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
And now Angelo is out in Chicago.
Maybe they’ll promote out buddy Tim.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
It'll be interesting to see what he's learned.
Particularly regarding the offensive line with that team. He gets a ton of shit here, a lot deserved and a lot not, but you can’t deny he had some strengths and did some good things. He was too penny wise, pound foolish in the end for me to have much hope for him as the head man but I’ll be excited to see what he does.
by Nate Dogg on Jan 3, 2012 2:55 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
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