Marshawn Lynch & Red Bryant on Hitting the FA Market
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 2:04 PM PST
in Seahawks News & Rumors
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PrintI'm usually not that big on meta-narratives on teams, I don't care much about how players talk about coaches or vice versa, reports on locker room dynamics, or other nuggets from the Nuggetmeister, Peter King. Not because I think it doesn't matter, but because I think it's very hard to get a good grasp on what's real behind all the PR and spin, and because I think those kind of tidbits serve as crutches on reporting for pundits too lazy or incompetent to do any actual analysis. Y'know...the Nuggetmeister.
But sometimes you get signals about the way players feel about their team or organization that are too strong to ignore. It already become pretty clear the Seahawks as a team are pretty upbeat despite losing their final two games, a justified attitude in my opinion, as those two games change very little about the excellent direction this franchise is heading in. The most important thing to take from those games (aside from some additional questions on our defensive scheme) is, as Danny already stated, "the NFC West is getting to be pretty competitive". A good thing in my opinion. Always fun to look down on the NFC East and AFC West.
We do have some free agents that are hitting the open market unless they are resigned before the market opens (March 14th, I think), but two of them provided some nuggets that are very lofty indeed. RB Marshawn Lynch said he "would like to come back" and on hitting the free agency market he stated: "Hopefully I don't have to. Hopefully I can get taken care of where I'm at." DE Red Bryant similarly noted he's not interested in hitting the market, quoted as saying "It's not always greener on the other side...I have a desire to be here."
That's pretty awesome. Assuming they're being honest (and there's no real reason to assume otherwise), it's pretty clear - if unsurprising - that our players like playing for this team, and like the direction we're heading in. Shouldn't be news to anyone, but it's good to hear from impending free agents.
For comparison's sake, now-Redskin OT Sean Locklear expressed disdain at the way the Redskins wrapped up their season. Not that they're expected to bring him back anyway, but that's no way to built good worker-employee relations.
Meta-narrative aside, Lynch and Bryant are both interesting free agents. Should the Seahawks be wary of paying Lynch after a career year coinciding with a contract year? Should the Seahawks move away from the Leo End/Red Bryant experiment to a more traditional front, try to re-sign Bryant as more of a situational player, or just stick with Red and our current scheme? Discuss!
Addendum: More comments in this piece by Curtis Crabtree, including similar comments from David Hawthorne.
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Lynch was very productive in his rookie year
It’s just that Buffalo just keeps pulling out star RBs out of their asses.
He’s performing well because the offensive line is better and Seattle is committed to the run. I definitely want to keep him.
Red Bryant is a bit of a tricky one. I want to keep him because of his run stuffing ass kicking ways but I want a pass rushing DE/DT to help Mebane, who I believe had a down year purely on the eye test.
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The offensive line isn't really better per se, though after the injuries it ended up composed entirely of run-first o-lineman.
Even if it’s worse then at the beginning of the year, it’s better than last year. But Marshawn is a legitimately better running back now than he used to be. This narrative first came out when Cable mentioned that Lynch had come to him and asked what he needed to do to be a better RB, and then took Cable’s advice.
And if you listened to Greg Cosell’s podcast with Doug Farrar recently, he pointed out that the Beast Mode really turned a corner partway through this year — became more decisive in his cuts and explosive hitting the hole. I’d be completely happy re-signing him. That kind of motivation and initiative says a lot to me.
Also, I thought Mebane had one of his better years, though it wasn’t borne out in the statistics, other than tackles (he was the NFC leader among DTs).
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think it's so much about Beef Moe getting better
but about Beef Moe learning to work better within the Cable blocking scheme. This is his third blocking scheme in as many years with a shortened offseason with which to build chemistry with the OL.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 2, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, I agree completely.
When I said a legitimately better running back, I should have been more clear. I think he’s a better back because he’s a smarter back (more informed, I’m not even getting into the intelligence conversation). He knows his system and he knows how to use his skillset to perfect his own performance within that system. And for what it’s worth, he seems to fit it like a glove.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
I felt like Mebane had a pretty good year myself.
I liked his play, and it made an impact.
Head of catering.
For sure
Mebane was pretty good.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
We all saw what happened when Red went down last year
We need to make re-signing him a priority. As much as I like Marshawn if you put a gun to my head and say “pick one”, I pick Red. They are #1 and #1A. Just don’t compare marshawn to Shaun. Marshawn is 25, not 29. Even though his running style is much more physical (remember how much grief Shaun got on blogs for running out of bounds and not taking on the defender?) I think Marshawn won’t go downhill as quickly as Shaun did.
Common sense isn't.
To me this speaks to how well the coaching staff has done with these guys
they got the players believing in the system and the team
Heresy grows from idleness.
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by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 2, 2012 2:27 PM PST reply actions
I also have questions about the future of our current DL
Red and Branch are playing well as a run-stoppers but we could probably use an upgrade in the pass-rush department. Clemons is playing well but will need a replacement sooner rather than later. Brock probably needed to be replaced in 2011.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 2, 2012 2:35 PM PST reply actions
In the time you took to get to the quotes I got VERY nervous that they had been talking about leaving.
So yeah, pay them please.
by jhmg16 on Jan 2, 2012 2:36 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Pay them both.
Pay them fairly and keep them. They are the heart and soul of our team. If you like what you’re seeing, then they both gotta stay.
Add Matt Flynn and Mario Williams and will be well. :-)
I know Flynn only has a few games, but I've had the pleasure of seeing them. His potential excites
me, and has me hoping we go that route to go straight up BPA in the draft. I can take another year of “QB limbo” (Though I think Flynn would take that out) from the draft to see what we have in him. He literally can’t be any worse than TJack, beyond injuries that make him completely unavailable. Plus, he’s still young. Mario would be awesome as well but I bet he gets franchised. maybe I’m wrong, but who else would the Texans use it on?
by twocolorcrayon on Jan 2, 2012 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Mario Williams is only 26?!
Please sign him. Dynamic pass rushers like him are extremely rare.
by B0w1-of-R1ce on Jan 2, 2012 6:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Don't think Houston wants to let him go...
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Don't think they can afford to keep him.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
Did you read the linked article?
It’d be restrictively expensive to tag him
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
Right, but they could still franchise the guy
And restructure his contract to a new deal.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
But if they don't... it's a 21 million cap hit.
by twocolorcrayon on Jan 2, 2012 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know what Houston is thinking.
But I’m betting that they’re trying to extend him, and franchising him for the sake of increasing the time for negotiations won;t be used.
Besides, if they really needed that 21 million, they could pull off what we did with Hill in 09.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Can't do that in every situation
Definitely can’t do that once the player signed his tender, which Mario could immediately do.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
I suppose the circumstances do make him a real possibility as a free agent.
I don’t buy the reasoning of why 3-4 teams wouldn’t pursue him, though. There would be suitors. But it’s nice to see a juicy prospective free agent with real chances of getting landed.
Head of catering.
Why would a 3-4 team pursue him?
He’s a defensive end or Phillips 3-4 OLB (functionally the same position). It’d be a huge gamble to think he’ll be a good traditional 3-4 DE.
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by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think it's huge.
His skillset translates, granting that many 3-4 OLBs have subpar coverage abilities. Zone drops still factor, and it seems there’s less and less responsibilities beyond that for many 3-4 teams now. Wade still takes the cake when it comes to dedicating an OLB to pass rush, but he’s not the only one to give heavy rush duties to his man.
Head of catering.
Wait, 3-4 OLB? That's just an entire position entirely, he's never played off the line
And yeah, most 3-4 teams definitely ask for more coverage abilities to put in Mario Williams, who has never played coverage in his life.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
But it's a rare thing to never drop into coverage.
Wade has used his premier rusher without any dropbacks, but most mix it in a little. And the value is more in creating protection assignment issues than in providing proper coverage. So like most rush-centric 3-4 OLBs, it’s a consideration but rather small I think.
Sorry I didn’t realize you said 3-4 DE, so apparently we were thinking different things initially. Mario being a complete 4-3 DE, I think he could play 3-4 DE well enough, but his edge rushing skillset would be wasted and he wouldn’t be worth the cost.
At any rate, my main point is just that I can see why he could well be on the market, and why we might pursue him. I think the logic that there may not be as many suitors as one might think makes less sense to me, though.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Jan 3, 2012 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
I know it's rare, and that's why I don't think Mario is very attractive as a 3-4 DE
Or more specifically, I don’t see any non-Phillips 3-4 teams that’ll pay him as well as 4-3 teams. It’s basically the 4-3 teams that are in contention. That’s not to say no 3-4 would want him, but how many would pay him AAA-money with that risk factor?
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
The Red Bryant question is really not about his abilities as a player
He’s pretty damn good, and has proven as much. But committing to him as a starting DE means committing to a defense that has looked pretty structurally flawed over two seasons. It leans heavily on its excellent secondary and its ability to stop the run, but even that latter didn’t really hold up over the whole season.
So it’s not a single-player question, it’s a “what is our future” question. Do we really want to commit on the long term to what may simply be a broken system? My personal preference would be to recognize Bryant as a situational player, and pay him as such.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 2:42 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
I agree, I love Red, I really do...
As a man and as a football player, but he is completely limiting this defense. He is an excellent run stopper and special teams player, but offers nothing when it comes to pass rush. I wish he could play either the 1 or the 3 tech, but that would probabl involve cutting his legs off at the shins, he’s just to tall to get leverage at those positions.
If he would come back as a situational player that would be great, but we need to find a pass rush at a spot other then the leo.
Agreed.
As I’ve mentioned before, I’d like to keep Red, but we REALLY need a good situational pass rusher. Y’know, someone that the opposing team has to actively scheme against.
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by Wayward Llama on Jan 2, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, the Raheem Brock position needs an upgrade more than the Red Bryant position
Robert Mathis is a FA this offseason (at age 30). I wonder if we could get him on the cheap?
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 2, 2012 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Robert Mathis would be perfect for the spot, and is an awesome player
I don’t think he’ll be cheap though, he’s a three-time pro bowler, and I don’t think he’s looking for a parttime job.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
What would making him one of the best paid situational players look like contractually
compared to other players that fill a similar role? Not that you have every contract in the league memorized, but I have no idea what the range would even be for that sort of player.
by twocolorcrayon on Jan 2, 2012 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
In what way has the defense looked structurally flawed over two season exactly?
Sure the D collapsed last season, but of course that was after Red Bryant went down. The LB play in those two seasons has been bad to above average. And the secondary play last season was below average although it was elite this season. This defense works most of the time because of the specialties of Mebane/Bryant/Thomas. The changes needed to make this defense elite are LB, situational pass rusher, and a pass rush from the 3 tech position. It’d be a lot easier to find a guy to replace Brock on 3rd down than find a guy like Peppers who can do it all.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
There's a philosophical question
of whether this asymmetric line provides enough pass rush to lead to a consistently good pass defense. I’m not sure whether we have enough evidence to prove or disprove it yet.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 2, 2012 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
We play one-gap-and-hold defense which is bad overall in my opinion
This defense is predicated on both being able to stop the run, which hasn’t held up over an entire season either year, our late-season performance was again worrying this year, and taking away the short passing game. Our corners are sensitive against longer, complex routes which is a problem when you don’t have a pass rush. Even FBO’s DVOA, generally a strong reliable stat, can’t really take that kind of matchup sensitivity into account. It’ll notice Rex Grossman shredding us, but won’t be able to explain why, because only tape and scheme analysis can.
Why don’t we have a pass rush? Because we play a passive, one-gap-and-hold defense with only one dedicated pass rusher. It is conceptually impossible to get a good pass rush that way regardless of talent as it locks up too much of your front seven, even though our talent is patchwork at best. Which is the next question, considering our front 7 talent is almost all on short-term/cheap contracts (except Brandon Mebane), do we really look vested enough in this style of defense to make sticking with Bryant a no brainer?
That’s not to say changes can’t be made in which Bryant still fits, and one could argue against creating holes when a dearth of talent already exists, but it’s also a question of whether or not this a stopgap scheme or something we want to stick to for long.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
In which game did you feel like the defense perform badly?
We are a top ten defense any way that you want to look at it.The scheme revolves around having a Red Bryant in it. If you don’t like the scheme that is fine, but that means that we have to replace everyone on the front seven as well as our corner backs. So basically you are saying that the scheme can’t ever produce an elite unit even with talent upgrades at certain positions ie defensive end, 3-tech, OLB. Despite your feelings I doubt we are changing our scheme and this means Red is an essential component to maintaining our currently good and sometimes great defense.
The defense performed badly against the Steelers, Giants, Cowboys and Redskins
And to be honest, it performed subpar in these final two weeks too. It is a “top 10” defense by putting down a whole lot of terrible or terribly injured defenses. I think it’s a good defense, but we shouldn’t delude ourselves about it functioning smoothly now.
Not liking the one-gap-and-hold defense in no way indicates have to replace the entire front 7 (just Red and Branch, really), and I have no idea why you would think it says anything about our cornerbacks.
Why don’t you think we’ll change our scheme? We already did from last year to this, why would we be prohibited from doing it again?
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
It broke down yesterday because Larry Fitzgerald is a Hall of Fame wideout
and had one of his best games with some ridiculous catches on poorly thrown balls from Skelton. I’m not going to call 19 points a breakdown against SF. A lot of long field goals from another team. Against the Giants they scored a touchdown on what should have been a pick and a ridiculous catch. The Skins got two scores on missed tackles, which has nothing to do with scheme. And Pittsburgh was week two. Curry, and Trufant were starting and basically Browner’s weakness’s as a corner were exploited to the ultimate by Wallace. I also don’t really buy we changed the scheme from this year to last. I think it is more of upgrading and developing talent which allowed us to do more things. We replaced Tats/Milloy/Cole/Trufant/Jennings/Curry and moved Hawthorne and Mebane to their natural positions inside.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
SF was specifically bad because the run defense collapsed
Sadly I never got around to scouting it out.
Rex Grossman absolutely ate up this offense, especially on the opening drive where he had about 10 YPA. He still finished strong despite Grossmanning it up. Eli Manning similarly ate up this offense, and while he had a good year overall, the game against the Hawks was still one of his best.
Pittsburgh was still the same scheme. That’s why it’s worth discussing as a structural problem, because removing Curry and Trufant from the equation, and Browner progressing, didn’t change much about what this defense
We did change scheme. What don’t you understand? We moved from a two-gap/one-gap mixed under D to a primarily one-gap-and-wait over D (which is what Wash coached in Washington), with the LBs having significantly different roles (mostly covering flats/containing gaps over playing tight on the TE and having players funneled towards you on the weakside). That’s not something to buy, that’s a fact. Moving from one-gap-and-wait to a more attacking one-gap style be replacing/upgrading Red and Branch would be a smaller change than that.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
By the way, Thomas, thank you SO much for your explanations on precisely this topic.
They’ve been invaluable to my own developing understanding of defensive concepts as I’ve watched and understood the D the Seahawks are running.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
Neat!
:brofist:
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 6:12 PM PST up reply actions
The philosophy behind the defense has not changed.
We did not have the personnel in Carroll’s first year to do what we are doing now. The roles and scheme changed because the abilities of the players changed. Pete has almost all of his defensive pieces in place and Bryant is a key component to the philosophy. I agree that we need more pass rush, but not at the expense of our run defense.
I didn't say the philosophy changed
The claim that Bryant is a key part of the philosophy is spurious at best. How far back can you trace the Bryant-type lineage on PC’s defensive coaching?
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by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
Bad LB play is at fault for rex grossman
168 yards of the 306 went to TEs and RBs, its been a season long problem. We need severe upgrades at the LB spot. The LB spot continueally gives up first downs on third and long. Watch the cleveland game, our LBs killed us in coverage on 3rd downs.
As I said on another post, our LBs dont get home when blitzed either. so they are terrible in coverage and terrible in blitzing. I think we could find some LBs who are better on passing downs. The exception would be Hill, who is still an all around good LB.
Eli HAD to have a big passing day to even compete because their run game was stiffled. He also threw three INTs. He also scored 7 points for us with his pass to Browner. He threw for 420 but the defense took back 112 in INT return yards. You really think a three pick game is one of his best this season?
Another thing to take into account is that our time of possesion was crappy early on in the season, and the defense was out there a lot. That was mostly our offense’s issue, but you play that many minutes, you are gonna tire out. Other teams also continueally ran at us. Even though for most of the year we were top 5 in Rush Y/C, we are the 8th most rushed on team. and 5th in Y/C for the year.
The pittsburg game was two major factors. 1. Offense couldnt control the ball at all, 2. Browner was abused. You have to admit Browner has improved dramatically through the year, sure he still has issues with hyper agressiveness, but he hasnt been roasted like by Wallace .
One could make the arguement that Fitz roasted him, but man I gotta say Fitz pulled in some epic catches, atleast 3-4 highlight reel type catches where defenders were in pretty good position.
I have offered the same analysis on our LBs for most of this season
But you are mistaken if you believe LBs are that important to a 4-3 defense like ours.
Picks are a part of the game, especially for players like Eli. If I want to know about the performance of a defense and quarterback, I look at completion percentage and YPA well before I look at TDs and INTs.
And if our offense is to be factored in on losing ToP early, it should be factored in in grinding out the clock too.
I’m sorry, but none of you are really offering any convincing arguments. I notice everyone is absolutely avoiding even mentioning pass rush in these “analyses” of our defense.
Also, Browner would likely still be roaster by Wallace. He just hasn’t faced him again.
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by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
Note that I don't disagree with these individuals factors having an impact
But just saying “there were individual factors” does not explain away certain tendencies, or a logical weakness following from a certain scheme. That’s why you look at it over multiple games, and since the excuses are different each game, you try tracking an underlying structural problem. I’m not saying I’m right, in fact I’m really no that sure I am, but it’s not easily dismissable either.
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by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:06 PM PST up reply actions
On one hand i think you are right, we are very inconsistent.
On the other hand, I think one consistent issue all year has been LB coverage issues.
Yes, it has.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Its possible he gets roasted by wallace again, most DBs are.
But atleast he will be in a better position to counter him next time, he seemed out of his element often.
Cover LBs are massively important to our defense. Our philosophy is stop the run early, and force 3rd and long. The idea is to create “one dimensional” situations. These typically create turn overs. Unfortunately we lost our best cover LB early and Wright has been abused often.
Im not saying you are wrong in how you diagnose defenses vs QB. Percentage and Y/A are very important, but i believe not taking care of the ball just leads to gun slinging. Most QBs can put up massive yards if they dont have to worry about throwing 3 picks in a game.
As for pressure, yes we lack pressure. It is frustrating quite often. One issue is our blitzes have not hit home. More than that usually they dont even collapse the pocket, or cause any kind of mayham at all. Last year Earl was a major force, this year he has been used differently. Hawthorne, and Wright are not hitting home on third and long. Hill is at the most modestly succesful when being dialed up.
On third and long our strong side DE hasnt done a lot in terms of collapsing nor sacking. This is a massive issue. Last year Brock provided that pop on third downs and then when he got more playing time, did get home more often, but he also was a complete liability on run plays.
I dont think we need to go out and get a top FA to create that 3rd down pressure.
Now if the question is sign red to a respectable contract and get a situational pass rusher who can get home enough to rattle a QB, or sign a no body “complete” DE who gives up more in the run game, and adds a little to pass defense, ill take Red.
If the question is do i want Mario williams or Red, thats pretty clear cut we take williams.
Its not a question of upgrading talent, but a question of can we get someone in who is as talented for the same price or cheaper.
Cover LBs are important, but not that important
Ideally we want to match up more man schemes than this flats coverage, our TE problems schematically stem from problems with that.
Also, most QBs can not abuse a good defense for 9-10 YPA. Those are ridiculous numbers put up by non-elite passing offenses against our defense, because we have very specific weaknesses.
Blitzes are a problem, and I’m a bit concerned about Bradley’s scheming (Earl Thomas blitzing isn’t smart), but blitzes are never an answer to pressure woes. Blitzes can’t fix lack of pressure from our base defense.
A “nobody” DE? Who was suggesting that? All most of us have been saying is paying Red as a starting DE would probably be a mistake, since in an ideal scheme he isn’t close to an every-down player. And it’s not just a question of talent, it’s a question of talent and scheme. One-gap-and-wait D with a single pass rusher is conceptually flawed, it doesn’t take much to see that.
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by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah i see your point.
Im also of a mind to really have 2, two gappers, and let red rag doll TEs.
Im not saying pay Red starting money, cause we need a 3rd down DE to get home. But honestly Red has been more effective than Brock as far as pressure goes this year. Though Brock has three sacks and red has one. Red collapses the pocket. His major issue is he only can power rush, no finesse moves at all.
You look at Red and then look at Justin Smith. They are pretty similar in physical abilities. Red needs to slim down a little, work on finesse moves too. He has shown on Kicks that he has teh agility and speed to get pressure, so im not sure if it’s coaching holding him back or lack of expereience(after all years of being a DT doesnt make you an all pro DE in a year.)
Pass Rush was our biggest weakness on D and Red doesn't help there.
But I think Brock having a shitty year had a lot more to do with it. When we took out Red or somebody in coverage to bring more PR, there simply wasn’t a competent pass rusher to replace them with. I think the scheme works when you have a situational pass rusher who’s worth a damn. When we cut down our run D or coverage for pass rush we were losing more than we were gaining.
But you have a point in asking what elite pass rusher is going to want part-time work. I’ve been wondering myself where the Von Miller that we take #12 will play (dreamin’).
I'm making it sound way too much like I hate everything about our scheme, or think it could never work with Red Bryant
I do think Red Bryant isn’t a fulltime starter, but nor do our coaches, so that’s an empty note. I would like a more penetration-based defense, proactive rather than the reactive, run-obsessed scheme we have now, but that change could be made while still maintaining Red Bryant as a part of the defense. It’d just take some rescheming, and he definitely shouldn’t be too highly paid, but I’m not too worried about that.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
Part of that might be lack of players for that type of scheme.
I see it like this. Almost every 4-3 team plays 1- gap defense. Most play penetrating 1 gap, meaning the linement take their gap and rush in it, and the LBs take the brunt of reacting.
So most 4-3 teams will draft those players. that leaves a lot of talented “tweeners” that can be picked up cheap, that is part of what our FO has been doing in picking up some of our free agents. basically skimming the cream of the left overs.
One could say we are behind the times, or that we are a head of the times. If you believe in cylyntrical philosophies of run/pass then we might get the cream of the crop as far as run first offensive players- run stoppers now. We also get those players cheaper, making getting “Must have cogs” easier on the budget.
Sure i would have loved to have Freeny/Mathis DE combo, but with a cap sometimes going against the grain might be the better plan than over paying for the “status quo”
I mentioned pass rush in my original reply. It clearly needs to be improved.
My argument is this: the Seahawks have a very good defense right now. Red Bryant is a key cog in that success. Losing Red would immediately put a hole in Seattle’s biggest strength defensively. Seattle would be best served in 2012 to re sign Red and replace the stop gap talents on the defense: Branch/Brock/Hill this off-season to generate more pass rush while still being able to be a great run defense. Ultimately it would probably be easier and cheaper to have a pair of specialists i.e. Red Bryant and a situational pass rusher to fill the need of dominant end as opposed to finding the next great defensive end.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
Sort of...
We allowed a lot of points, but the story there is more about Time of possession than about the Falcons offense, who averaged a fairly weak 5.3 yards per offensive play. Not the best of performances, but could be worse.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
If he can also return punts, I'm in.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Alan Branch returned punts in high school
at 300 lbs.
by Stagerman on Jan 2, 2012 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wideouts will simply not recover from his press coverage.
Can’t run a proper timing route when you have to pick yourself up off the ground each play.
Head of catering.
Perfectly stated, Thomas.
And I have a feeling he’ll be offered compensation as such.
Despite all the glowing things that Pete and John say about him, they MUST recognize the pass rush is virtually non-existent, heavily due in part to Red Bryant being a 3-down player.
I don’t think they’ll offer him a huge contract.
Always up for some Twitter action @nandron. I only talk NW sports, though.
I strongly agree. What the team intends to do
with this system, stick with it or move away from it, is truly the biggest question of the offseason.
Head of catering.
One thing with Lynch, the way he runs is his personality. The only thing I see slowing him down is
the one thing that slows them all down, wear & tear & age. I think we could still get a SOLID 3 years with no regression out of him. Whether his style lets him go longer is a question, but I think it’s just ingrained in him to run the way he does. There’s no way he turns into Shalex. And no, I’m not hinting at that sort of contract either, just sayin’
And to everyone who points to wear & tear & age in fear
Need to get over it
Lynch is still relatively young and plays extremely physical. There is going to be a chance he can get hurt. But that goes for every single player out there, regardless of age and physicality. It’s a risk every player takes. Though the one thing Lynch does have, is the fact that he’s shown to be strong, tough, and resilient enough to be healthy, or when dinged, play through it or at least recover in a timely manner.
You can’t be paranoid that he’ll get injured or hit the wall, because no one really knows when, how, or why it will happen. Could be play #1 of 2012, or could even be 6 years down the road. The only thing you can know in that situation, is if you are scared of it and tiptoe around it, you’re hurting your ball club by keeping talent away from your team.
Reward him for what he’s done and playing his ass off every single down he has while in our uniform, contract year or not. Front load it maybe to protect yourself from any future mishaps, and bring in some young, fresh, exciting legs behind him. That way you’re keeping elite talent, continuing to improve your team and protecting yourself in the mean time.
I Bleed Blue and Green
ME...Tweeting Stuff! About my upcoming game...and other random musings.
I think there's something to be said for playing for a stong fan base like the Seahawks have.
Cardinals fans should have been embarrassed by all those empty seats yesterday.
They were broke after buying their Cowboys tickets.
Wanted: Franchise Quarterback
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by Wayward Llama on Jan 2, 2012 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
Would Red do it?
The problem we have is that Red currently is a starting DE in the NFL……and a productive one highly regarded throughout the league. How does Seattle hope to resign him offering a package for a “situational role player?”
I don't see his future as anything but situational.
Pass rush is paramount for all teams. Unless some team wants to try him at DT again we should be able to retain him for a fair price.
by brugg on Jan 2, 2012 2:58 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That is indeed a key problem
Though I’m not sure how good the market for him is. He’s basically an untested 3-4 DE.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
There’s so many 3-4 teams somebody is going to see him as a fit and pay him pretty good.
He could make it on a 3-4 team, but like Thomas points out that's no guarantee.
But the Ravens defense would take him as an upgrade over Redding, who they eagerly signed when we let him test the market. The havoc that Red creates would make more of an impact on the Ravens, where a random pass rusher would run by the pile of bodies he leaves on the ground and take out the QB.
Big Red isn't going anywhere.
He knows no other team will value him as much as he is here. And he had about failed his way out of the league before Carroll found a place for him—so yeah, he’s gonna want to stay and we’re gonna pay him. But it won’t be some insane contract. Probably less than Mebane’s which was lower than we all expected.
Why would he risk going to another team having no idea if he’ll actually fit in? Besides, he married into a Seahawks for life family. He’s stuck.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Sign both
I would get Red first, we saw the defense without him, yes we need more pass rush but we are a better team with him on the field. He will get starter money and we need to respect that if we want to keep him.
Hard not to love what Lynch brings, but you don’t sign backs to big contracts in today’s NFL (IMO). If you can get him at a fair price lock him in. He needs Seattle as much as we need him he is building quite the fan base here.
Enjoy both, hope our front office looks to bring both back. And take a reasonable risk on getting a long term answer at QB!
by Seahawcla on Jan 2, 2012 3:07 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Big Red. I love him, but...
Right now our defense is exeeding because of our ability to utilize the talent we have. That also doesn’t mean that we have exceptional talent. Red has been great for what he’s been asked to do, and that’s very one dimensional and even worse un-dynamic. He has one roll, and can do it, and he does it well. But in reality when you look at the defense as a whole, we are hamstrung on 1/2 of our line.
I appreciate what Red’s done and I’d love to see him back, but if that means giving up a ton of starter money, for a situational DE/DL who just happens to be starting, then no thank you.
We have a good position in the draft…and barring any trades (up to get a QB which can take away our nice, high positions)… I’d love to see us bring in a TRUE DE, early in the draft, who can make an impact both in the run game and the passing game. We absolutely need that on our defense. I think that has to be primary focus 1B right after the obvious 1A… Quarterback.
If Red would come back for a medium sized contract and be willing to be a situational DE/DL, or at most, just hold the line until a new, young, IMPACT DE is ready…then I’d be more than happy.
I Bleed Blue and Green
ME...Tweeting Stuff! About my upcoming game...and other random musings.
Where is that new impact DE going to come from exactly?
There are faster and cheaper ways of making this defense elite instead of hoping of drafting or signing the next Peppers/Tuck/Strahan/Allen.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
rookie pay wage scale eliminates the need for "cheaper ways"
and the top end of the DE position is really deep this year…us picking 11/12 in the 2nd round could easily land us a top tier talent to add to our line on the edge. There’s enough top end guys that we could get a legitimate DE early in the draft.
I Bleed Blue and Green
ME...Tweeting Stuff! About my upcoming game...and other random musings.
I hope you are right. I would love to land an elite pass rusher in the second round.
Of course that doesn’t mean that Red can’t be brought back as well.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
As do I
There’s enough bodies there, and the position goes far enough depth wise that historically, there’d should a few guys there for us to grab. And if you take a look at the guys out there, there’s some dang good players. Outside of QB it’s the one position I’ve really been looking at and excited for since we absolutely need to look there. Got some guys who could make some noise. Just hope that holds true, and we’re looking to improve there, because we, without a doubt, need more dynamic play off the edge.
If Red can come back at a reasonable rate as more of a rotational player/“stopgap” until a new guy can get here and start, then I’d be more than happy. BUT his play and him being a starter may completely drive up his value. Which, as much as I love him, he does deserve, but is also extremely skewed due to our flawed and janked up system actually holding up. So, we shall see how that pans out.
I just know there’s some guys out there, and we have a chance to land a difference maker. The biggest deciding factor for that however, is what we’ll do regarding the QB. If we trade up and that uses our 2nd pick, then that ave is gone unless we get insanely lucky deeper in the draft. Sooooo…if we have it on board, then there’s a chance to do a nice solid move to up our Dline off the edge. And boy how I hope we do.
I Bleed Blue and Green
ME...Tweeting Stuff! About my upcoming game...and other random musings.
Unless we bring in a guy like Mario Williams though
Red should/will start if he is retained. Everyone keeps saying Red is a situational player, that’s true but that pretty much includes everyone. Even if we draft a guy like Coples round 1 Red will still play the majority of the snaps.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
Lynch and his contract year
don’t have me worried. He just doesn’t seem like the ego-hound that other RBs are who regressed sharply after a big payday. He loves hitting people, he loves scoring TDs and grabbing his dick. He loves the Seattle crowd. He’s not unctuous in any manner and doesn’t throw pissy fits when he doesn’t get the ball.
Pay the man.
We need more dick
grabbing
I Bleed Blue and Green
ME...Tweeting Stuff! About my upcoming game...and other random musings.
by DSAhawker on Jan 2, 2012 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Lynch is no contract-year phenom.
He’s been playing like this since he arrived. The only difference is now the O-line is letting him get to, or past, the line of scrimmage before he gets hit.
Pay the man a top-10 RB contract, with an extra $100k per year for Skittles-related fines.
by Highwatermark on Jan 2, 2012 4:05 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
O-Line
I agree. Give Tom Cable a raise while we are at it.
by Classic1 on Jan 2, 2012 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Seriously
don’t let this dude leave.
Wanted: Franchise Quarterback
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by Wayward Llama on Jan 2, 2012 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
This is my view as well
But it’s a worthwhile question to think about.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
The Beast and Big Red
Personally, I would love to see the Lynch and Bryant resigned. As the article said, both players want to be here. I would rather have a player who gives his all on every play, which both of them have, in order to get paid. The NFL is a business and it is understandable that players want to get paid. Marshawn Lynch wants a new contract, and instead of being a distraction and not playing to his full potential, such as Deshawn Jackson, he played hard and anchored our offense. He deserves to get paid. Red Bryant had a very similar year on defense. He may not be a sack master at DE as what is usually expected, but he is great against the run and has blocked four kicks this year. He is a big body, and unusually quick for his size. For the first time in, like ever, the Seahawks have a very solid secondary and a good run stopping front seven. We are on the way to having one of the most dominant defenses in the league and it was built on lesser known players. Lynch was forth in the NFC and seventh overall in rushing yards, forth in rushing attempts, tied for third in rushing TDs. He is 26 years old, much younger than the 30 year old commonly understood age in which RBs experience extreme decline. Lynch’s biggest attribute is his willpower and hard running style. Beastmode indeed. Marshan Lynch became part of the Seahawks culture and Seattle history when he broke out the Beastquake inducing run against the Saints in last years playoffs. He had another seriously impressive run against the Eagles this year in which he broke nearly as many tackles, though for a much shorter TD, and in a less important game. Marshawn Lynch is a Seahawk. He is what we as Seahawks fan love, a hard running back with a nose for the goal line. These two players, along with our young secondary and Doug Baldwin, have me very excited to be a Seahawks fan.
I think you need a couple paragraph breaks.
I like what you had to say, but it was a daunting task to read it.
by brugg on Jan 2, 2012 4:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I also do not fear a Beast Mode decline after he gets the Big Payday.
Lynch is just the opposite of laid back Alexander, who was 30 when he got his exten$ion and immediately became a ghost of his former self.
Red Bryant, in a perfect fantasy world, learns amazing tricks of leverage, whereby he becomes a force at DT and gives us the interior pass rush that Mebane used to deliver.
by broadbill birdwatcher on Jan 2, 2012 4:24 PM PST reply actions
Of coarse you keep them both
Both are no brainers.
Lynch has embraced zone running.
Red has embraced his unconventional DE/DT role. And it’s not Red vs. “Elite pass rusher”. This defense uses rotations, the DL should be thought of as 6 or 7 starters. They’ve rotated them pretty regularly the past 2 seasons.
Both pretty much embody the offensive and defensive philosophies of the team
I would expect both to be paid quite well, but nothing earth shattering.
Lynch might get something approaching Top 10 money for RBs.
Red’s contract aspirations are a bit of an enigma due to a limited market for someone of his skillset. He wont get elite DE money, maybe something approaching Branch?
Hawks have the cap to sign both, and will have plenty left over after that for Flynn, M.Williams, whoever you’re offseason dreaming about.
We’re in a good spot. Cleaned house, now it’s about retention.
by vertigoman on Jan 2, 2012 4:33 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I love Red especially because I think his attitude embodies much of the personality of the entire team.
But I don’t think he’ll ever be better than a situational player and needs to be paid accordingly. I’d be surprised if any other team would pay him like he wasn’t, given he’s (as Thomas said) a relatively unproven 3-4 end.
I really really, almost irrationally want Mario Williams. Everyone thinks he’ll be too expensive or that the Texans will franchise him and keep him in Houston, but I don’t think they’ll be able to afford him. Seattle has more than enough cap space to add him, and they should, in my opinion.
Mario Williams would be an incredible get, and enough on his own to transform this defense to something much closer to elite
But that’s a bit of a dream scenario. I’m not falling for that one again after getting my hopes up for Joseph. Who, I may note, had an awesome year.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
But is it really that pie-in-the-sky?
If Houston can’t afford him, and he’s available, and the Seahawks need a pass-rusher, and they have cap space to spend on a pass-rusher, and they’re not spending big money on a QB (meh Matt Flynn) — it seems to me like a match made in heaven. Seattle’s become a pretty popular FA destination too, from what I’ve heard.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah well that's the problem
I would be way too happy about it. Other than picking Earl Thomas, this FO just doesn’t do that.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
Well hopefully that changes this year ;)
Honestly, given this defense’s inability to contain mobile QBs or quick shifty RBs, they either need to switch full-time to a standard 3-4 and adjust the LB corps, or move to a more standard 4-3 with a more balanced front.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
I think 4-3 and 3-4 are becoming increasingly meaningless concepts
What are the Packers? 2-5? The Patriots? I have no idea. I like that we’re flexible with our fronts, but I agree we could do with a more traditional look for base downs, particularly not selling out quite as much as we do to prevent the run.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
I agree, and I've noticed in many threads that people refer to a specific four as starting d-lineman in specific order
But when I started rewatching games, I really noticed that there’s pretty serious rotation going on. Mebane and Clemons are consistently out there, but other than that, it gets mixed up quite a bit.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
Or kicks inside
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
Branch is usually replaced by McDonald too.
The more i think about it though, the more we could easily use a 3-3-5 for nickle and a 3-2-6 for dime. If we do that a good OLB could provide the rush on the opposite side, or stacked with clemons. This might leave us vulnerable to draws on third, but those are less effective than most passes.
Mario Williams would be too expensive
as long as we keep Red. He would need to play every down.
The nice thing about our scheme is we do not need a 290 lb DE that runs a 4.6. We can use guys like Clemons that go 260 lbs. There are alot of guys that size that can come in on third down and get after the QB.
But what if teams pass on all three downs?
That’s the problem with our scheme because teams are smart enough to pass when Red is in the field, knowing that he won’t bee much of a pass rusher. Adding in a guy like Williams will help negate the problem.
And adding in Mario lets Red move around the line too.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Red isn't effective inside
If we were to sign Mario Williams it would spell the end of Red’s time in Seattle. We would still need a 3 technique that can get to the QB.
He wasn't, but that doesn't mean he's not now.
I seem to remember him blocking four FGs inside.
I'm not up to date on the specifics of the Seahawks' cap space
But I know they can afford both of them. Unless they gave Red a massive contract, and I think that’s pretty unlikely, given this FO’s penchant for penny-pinching.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 7:31 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, we got the space, and then some
Davis should have a writeup on this later.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
Our payroll was abou $81 million
We are well under the $120 million salary cap. The problem with a player like Williams is his salary would make the other guys jealous. We have no one even close to the $13 to $15 million we would need to pay. Sidney Rice is probably the most highly paid guy we have.
The FO deliberately cut salary the last two years because of the CBA. Now we are in position to sign some attractive FA’s at a good price. I just don’t think they will put most of it on one players.
I'm not sure I am following your argument
We’re not doing it because a) people would get jealous and b) we can sign multiple FAs.
Well…no one should care about professionals getting jealous, payment disparity is a part of the game. They won’t care as long as Williams deserves it. Also, we did cut our top salaries last season but we also filled it up, and nothing this FO has done shows it’s shy about paying for a player that deserves it. And this FA class really isn’t attractive enough to spread the money.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:16 PM PST up reply actions
He isn't worth $13 million.
This is why he is available from Houston. If we signed we would then have to pay the same coin to Earl Thomas, Clemons and Mebane. One guy making that much blows the whole payroll. We didn’t even pay Hasselbeck that much during his best days. The FO just spent 2 years unloading veterans with big salaries like Williams. They aren’t going to change philosophy now. Put on your GM hat. You are failing to manage the money and looking only at talent and need,.
What?
He is worth every cent of 13 million, he is one of the absolutely best players at one of the most important positions in pro football. If he hits the market he’s the Nnamdi of this FA period, only younger. And if he hits the market it’s not because Houston is done with him, it’s because he’s done with Houston. We never paid anyone that much because we haven’t had anyone that good.
I have no idea where you’re getting this whole “then we have to pay same coin to” from. Clemons isn’t remotely comparable and no one would pay him as much, and the same is true for Mebane and Thomas (ET due to his position being worth less, not even Polamalu makes 10 mil a year at his position).
I’m sorry, man, but you’re not making any sense. Which I’m afraid to say is often the case with your posts.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have to agree.
Mario williams is the type of young effective play the FO is known for bringing in. He is also worth every cent of 15 million. The problem with Houston is that if they dont resign him, and use the Franchise tag, he gets paid 20 million, and that is too much.
Problem with Seattle is its not market friendly for endorsements. Mario Williams never struck me(and let me say im not well informed on this point) as an A-rod type player who is all about the money. That being said, with the QB quality this year, we might be able to sneak a top teir OLB/DE talent from the top of the draft and save a bunch of money.
Here is the great thing about Mario Williams, if he did sign, clemons could be used in all kinds of ways. He could be moved to the other end, making us have that great DE duo, or he could be that 3rd down/situational rusher. We could do that and save him for the play offs ect. Just thinking out side the box but i dont think its a sign one or the other type deal.
Well, it is not the first time you have attacked one of my posts.
I guess when you are a moderator one is held to a lower standard. I expect to be able to post my opinion without being constantly ‘experted’ by your opinion. If you think he is worth the risk of tying up that much in one player then I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
If you state an opinion, you risk getting called out on them
You have no awareness that you tend to badly overstate your case? I figured it was a conscious thing.
Also, I am not a moderator. Flag my posts as you see fit.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
Let me be clear though
Any time someone claims we would have to pay “the same coin” to Clemons as to Mario Williams, I feel fully justified to point out that person is not making any sense. That is simply not a rational arguments, and here on FG we want our arguments to be based on rational thought processes, rather than random over-the-top statements.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
I dont know Clemons personally
but he didnt have a very productive career before he came here, and he is signed through next year. I dont think he will find the level of success in another scheme, so i dont think he will be crying because we sign an elite DE.
umm have you been listening to the announcers on tv
just about every announcer says the same thing he is a premier pass rusher. watch this guy. he turns corners hard and he gets hold so often i dont watch his side of the ball anymore
Yes, we've been listening to announcers.
They say tons of stupid stuff, so that’s not even an appeal to authority. Rather an appeal to idiocy.
Yes Clemons makes a great impact, no the announcers add nothing to the argument about his worth.
as annoying as SOME of the announcers are
some of them actually know what they are talking about. anyways that wasn’t the point.
the point is clemons is a premier pass rusher. he got to the qb or pressured the qb without the help of blitzes as suspected last year.
Not sure if premier is the word for it.
But he’s a very good pass rusher. And he does it without giving up too much in the run game, and when he’s the only real threat of a pass rusher from the edge on a lot of plays. Yet there are schemes where he would be less successful, which is a good portion of why he hasn’t had a starting job before reaching our team.
thats an assumption but its not the truth
this is also an assumption. if philadelphia saw the type of play making ability of Clemons they would have kept him and used him more.
i consider premier as in top 10-15 pass rushers and he definitely makes that list
Chris Clemons is well below Trent Cole
He’s good, but a lot of his pass rush last year came from scheme. He’s improved this year, and he’s a good player. But good, old players do not get paid like great, young players.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
i LOVE Clemons
but when you are 30 and have only had success in one place through out your career, and you have been in 4+ places, players tend to be happy with just having success, vs a massive pay day. It is still a business though.
Yeah, I cite Raheem Brock as an example.
Look how far he declined.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
ET's contract expires in 2014, Mebane's in 2015. Clemons turn 33 when his contract runs up and probably we won't resign him.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
i think it all depends on the development players
tahts supposed to replace clemons and in two years we have seen nothing but injuries from those player. so if that repeats we may have to sign him regardless. he is the most under rated de in the nfl i bet. i haven’t watched the nfl very long but damn there were way to many obvious holds, the dangerous kinds. like when an oline wraps his arm under the neck of clemons as he pursues after the qb.
man was it frustrating to watch as the refs stood idling by
No.
Our scheme needs that kind of guy badly. You have no idea how much better our secondary would mess with a pass rush that severely limits the deep ball, and a guy like that is also a plus against the run so we don’t lose much of our “vaunted” run defense.
It’s exactly what our scheme needs, because right now the scheme doesn’t quite work.
by cashless on Jan 2, 2012 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Never mind.
Just read some more of your “arguments” and I apologize for responding.
I would like to think that PC would know his CB's the best, and he would probably get his required secondary via the draft.
Don't be an idiot. If an idiot would do that, then don't do it. Muahahahaaha back on twitter
Seems that way, yes.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
Never thought I'd see Sean Locklear's name mentioned in these parts again
Bringing back bad memories
Pretty sure I'm the only Seahawks fan on the East Coast
I would bet our top guys will be resigned by the end of this month.
I still haven’t figured exactly how the cap works . But just glancing at the teams player salaries I’d bet they’re in pretty good shape. Curry heading south i’m sure helped too.
Next year we play Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Cam Newton and Matthew Stafford. Is this the D-line that we want to have facing those guys?
I love Big Red, but we’re going to have a rough year unless we improve our pass rush.
Yeah, its completely impossible to get a good pass rusher
If we sign Red. I dont think we are allowed to re-sign Red AND get another defensive player, its not like the nfl allows an offseason and pre-season to tryout several players! Clearly Red Bryant is what brings this team down. Wouldn’t that be weird if we signed Red and drafted a good pass rusher and then if it worked out we trade Red for draft picks or a player of need? Or just keep bad ass Red? Nah that will never fly with PC/JS cause they are horrible at their jobs and clearly have no talent for scouting.
Watching the Seahawks is like peeing on yourself, everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling it brings
I'm not even sure who you're trying to troll
Because your strawmen are not even close to being related to any points so far.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Was gettimg a little annoyed
At the fact that people are coming up with reasons as to not re-sign Red and not much for re-signing him. I love Red bryant for our team and cant wait to see him next season. Was definately getting over defensive thinking about Red playing for a different team. My apologies!
Watching the Seahawks is like peeing on yourself, everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling it brings
it doesnt really matter who's defense is out there
they seem to pass for over 300yds and run for 100yds no matter what… well not cam
I'm not too worried about re-signing Lynch being a mistake after a career-year.
I would doubt that he’d be played as an elite back, like Chris Johnson was paid, and because of not-all-guaranteed contracts, I have very little doubt that he’d be worth it. I don’t think he’ll just start to not play well over the next 3 years, and because you can cut him at any time, give him a 6-year deal and let’s see how this goes. It won’t cripple the Hawks in any way if he “only” becomes a good back for 3 years and then declines rapidly after that. As long as they pay him a fair price and not at the “Skittlemania!” price, that assumes he’s one of the top 5 backs in the league, I’m cool with it.
follow @casetines
Im not worried about re-signing him as a mistake
Am worried he will be the new cover of Madden though.
Watching the Seahawks is like peeing on yourself, everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling it brings
We as Fieldgulls must email Beast Mode and tell him to refuse a Madden Cover
I mean as a player you have to be able to posses that right, right?
Hillis got cocky and didnt think he would be effected by it, well he believes it now for sure.
by Dominic Matlock on Jan 2, 2012 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
If you want a better D
Replace the QB.
Resign Red and Lynch… Replace Brock.
by Redzone59 on Jan 2, 2012 6:33 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Questions about pass rushers
We know that elite QBs are, for the most part, drafted. You’re far less likely to trade for or sign one as a FA.
1. What about pass rushers? Draft or buy?
2. We know Mario Williams is available. Who are other candidates? Umenyiora?
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
There are several quality Pass rushers that have contracts ending after the season.
Im just speculating here on the front office’s intentions. I feel they really want to bring in young quality players, and though some older effective players could be available, they FO wont pay top dollar for them.
John Abraham- averaged a career 9 sacks a season, this year he has 9.5
- he is 33 so the FO would maybe offer Clemons or less money for him.
Robert Mathis- Averaged career 9 sacks a season, this year he has 9.5
- he is 30, at that age he could still land a big contract, but is also the age to really worry about sudden decline.
Mario Williams- averaged a career 9 sacks a season, this year he had 5, ended on IR
- is 26 and his injury is usually not career or even performance threatening, should be the big signing of the year.
Cliff Avril- averaged a career 7.6 sacks a year, this year he has 11
- He is 25 could be the third highest $ contract this off season
Mark Anderson- averaged a career 5 sacks a year, this year he has 10
- He is 28 and could be a nice cog for cheap
Andre Carter- has averaged a career 7 sacks a game, and this year has 10
- he is 32 so he would have to come cheap.
Calias Campbell- He has averaged a career 4 sacks a game, and this year he has 8
He is 25 and would not only help us but hurt a division rival. averaged 3.75 sacks a year, this year he has 8.
Jeremy Mincey
- He is 28 he has averaged 6.5 sacks the last two years and should just about hit his prime, if he could be had cheap
Avril is probably most attractive after Williams
But I don’t think he’s walking, and he’s very weak against the run.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
Calais Campbell for me.
Possibly more attractive than Mario, even. For me; I doubt it’s a common sentiment.
I dunno if he would be as much of a fit for us; again, the question: are we sticking with what we’re doing, here, or changing?
If we’re sticking, he’d fit. I really liked Calais in the draft, he was my #1 target for us. When we took Lawrence Jackson I gave Ruskell the benefit of the doubt. I knew Calais was somewhat risky. It has seemed to me, Calais’ upside is more closely a case of “all or nothing” than most prospect’s development chances are. It seemed a question of effort, figuring it out, and his 6’8" frame being useful at this level, as impediments to development, but otherwise if he developed — which he certainly has — he had potential through the roof.
He doesn’t seem to be the most sound professional, in technique or assignment, but I do think he rivals Mario’s physical talent, with slightly less pass rush explosion, he’s not demonstrated the same health questions, is younger and as mentioned would hurt a division rival. And I suppose he figures to be cheaper as well.
Head of catering.
Calais Campbell is a great player, but that's would really necessitate a scheme shift, and not a small one
I don’t see it worthwhile to go there when really the biggest reason is annoying a divisional rival.
What health questions does Mario have?
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by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think it's remotely the biggest reason.
But like I said, I also question the fit. It wouldn’t necessitate a scheme shift, but that would be an option. The other option is a shift for him; he’s played DE in both alignments, and he has the size to translate to strongside end as well. He broke out as a 3-4 end, and I think it’s because that’s what Zona was running when he broke out, not because he works better there.
So again, I dunno what we’re doing, staying or changing, and for the most part it doesn’t constitute something of a change one way or another. That doesn’t nearly take the option off the table, but it’s a question that would need to be alleviated. I dunno if it is yet.
As to Mario, a health question is not the same as a demonstrable health concern. He’s missed games with hip injury, a sports hernia, and then the torn pec this year. It’s very valid to take the torn pec and assert, his injuries aren’t concerns for repeated problems. He’s not the same injury question that Sidney Rice was coming in (which has now turned from a question to a concern). I only raise the question, which it is, in comparison to Campbell, who’s not yet missed a game due to injury.
Head of catering.
But as you can tell, I'm a big Campbell fan.
I don’t expect that many will regard him as highly as I do.
Head of catering.
Free Agency seems to work well for elite DEs
Off the top of my head
Jared Allen – Vikings
Julius Peppers – Bears
Justin Smith – 49ers
John Abraham – Falcons
I’m sure not all fared so well but those are the ones I could think of.
For sure
We did it before, with Patrick Kerney. But you gotta hit the right age sweet spot, pick them up as they’re hitting their prime, as Vikes did with Allen, and as anyone who picks up Williams will do with him.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 3, 2012 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
I like Mario Williams, especially since he played under a 3-4 sechme this year.
So he can play in coverage (like Clemons did) and be better.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
He didn't play that much coverage
I find the Phillips 3-4 that the Texans run is one of the most widely misunderstood schemes in the league. It’s basically a one-gap 4-3 with a standup DE.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 6:58 PM PST up reply actions
Not us
But what I’ve been advocating above is basically turning our defense into more like the Phillips 3-4, which is my favorite defensive scheme in the modern NFL.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
Yes yes yes yes, please?
I liked the Texans, then Johnathan Joseph and Wade Phillips headed there, and I fell in love.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 7:31 PM PST up reply actions
Thomas
Thoughts on Seattle going after Williams?
by Redzone59 on Jan 2, 2012 7:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I would stop wearing pants for a full week
That’s how excited it would make me.
I really just don’t know if it’s all that realistic, I assume the Texans are working on him as we speak, I have no idea if he’s unhappy there, he clearly fits the Phillips 3-4 well (which I’ll note for self-promotional reasons I predicted prior to the season, in spite of all the folks who thought he’d play a totally different position in 3-4 OLB).
If he hits the market, he should be a priority signed for the Seahawks and about a dozen other NFL teams.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
Nice!!
Anyone else you might want?
by Redzone59 on Jan 2, 2012 7:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
There's a few other DLers that wouldn't be bad
Robert Mathis, Cliff Avril particularly. Terrell Thomas, perhaps, especially if we let Trufant walk. So, not the worst options to upgrade this defense if we play our cards right, and as we put most our money on the offense last off-season.
I guess you could argue for a QB like Flynn or Johnson too. We’ll see more writeups on them soon.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
48 Hours after the Seahawks season has ended...
I bet they will fire at least one coaching staff, probably the QB coach Carl Smith instead of Bevell.
COME ON REVOLVING DOOR (though it won’t be as active as the last two offseasons)
Don't be an idiot. If an idiot would do that, then don't do it. Muahahahaaha back on twitter
I don't see any coaching changes happening
I don’t think there’s any segment of our game where we regressed since last year, except maybe special teams, but that’s only because they set the bar so high last season. Not a big fan of the ultra-conservative playcalling sometimes, but oftentimes it’s hard to tell if all those checkdowns are by design or out of TJack’s overabundance of caution. I’d like to get to the point, though, where we can afford a bit of Bellichek-like ballsiness in the game plan. Go for it on a 4th and 2 every so often and all that.
"That's funny. I post here all the time and I never see (you) here."
- GreatGoogly, to John Morgan
"John Morgan IS Field Gulls, asshole!"
I think our playcalling on defense and offense both is pretty damn bad
Wouldn’t weep at Bradley or Bevell going. Or Wash. Can live with them staying too. Though I’d like to see Wash go.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
Curious why you'd like to see Wash go
Don’t have any allegiance to him. Just wondering if you think there’s a discipline or technique issue with the DL. Do positional coaches have any say in personnel or game planning and execution?
by Matt Erickson on Jan 2, 2012 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think Wash is getting more out of these guys than his predecessor
Some of that’s not his fault, but he’s inexorably tied with the one-gap-and-guard system that he coached at Tampa Bay too, and I really just don’t like that scheme. Would rather go more Kiffin-esque and attack on the front four, though it’d require some personnel changes.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:04 PM PST up reply actions
Bevell though?
I like the commitment he’s had to the running game and like his calls in west-coast style offense. I mean Brett Favre had a carer year in Minnesota with Bevell there. Give him a capable QB and he’s golden.
Bevell was as much the OC with Minney as Bradley is our DC with PC
That was Chilley’s O.
I’m not a fan of his commitment to the running game at all, and he has extremely badly-timed and designed reverses, outlet passes, etc. Though you’re certainly right, Tarvaris doesn’t help.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course, one of the biggest reasons why they signed Jackson in the first place
was because of Bevell. So really he has nobody to blame but himself.
To be fair, the commitment is what basically pulled the offense out of it's hole in the 2nd half of the season
but then again, that’s also probably some Tom Cable influence
Heresy grows from idleness.
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by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 2, 2012 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's situational
And obviously I can’t exactly complain about putting the foundation of the offense through your strength, rather than forcing a weak QB to pass. I just don’t think it’s a great principle in general. Balance is great and important, and I don’t mind a little ground and pound, but our specific balance (nearly 1-1) is unsustainable.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but
How do you change that balance when your QB is incapable of leading the passing attack? The Seahawks were a much worse team the first half of the season when they weren’t committed to the run and tried running a hurry-up with Tavaris.
Yeah, I know
Not criticizing it in this situation, just as an overall principle.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
So maybe
It’s not their overall principle? We’ve only seen Bevell for a season in Seattle. I honestly think Carroll will go hard after an elite QB soon because if he remembers anything from his heyday at USC it was that he was winning NC’s with his elite QBs Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart (well he was elite in college at least) and not with John David Booty or Sanchez. If Pete gets his QB I think we see a better balance under Bevell.
I don't know if it is
I hope it’s not. But it’s kind of hard to tell right now.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
Wait
You don’t like having a team committed to the run, or just how Bevell play-called runs?
I don't mind commitment to the run
I mind how much commitment we have to the run.
And I think Cable mostly drew up run-plays. I don’t like how Bevell used Leon Washington though, at least until this last game.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
Bevell or Cable used Washington, I suppose
Bit hard to gage
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
Survey: what is the most highly-cited yet least-impactful factor of a football team?
I’d be curious what others think. For me, it’s play-calling predicatbility. Is there anything else more universally maligned, on great & awful teams alike, year after year?
Well Bevell has shown, for me, the most tangibly detrimental predictability I’ve ever seen. But I wouldn’t have known enough to judge, prior to the past 4 years or so, and I’d only have known Seattle coordinator systems & tendencies, so it’s a limited set.
Though we played well in the Chicago game, go back and watch that for a clinic on the difference predictability can make. It rarely, rarely makes a difference, but Chicago knew their former division opponent very, very well.
I don’t think Pete is concerned with such things. I think he wants an offense that is conducive to his philosophies & team system. I think he intends the system, and subsequent play-calling, to keep them in games, to let talent and execution put them ahead. On both sides of the ball he & his coaches have demonstrated sometimes-superb halftime adjustments, including the Chicago game. That goes a long way in neutralizing any predicability concerns.
So stability and player familiarity with the system are probably way more valuable than another OC change could be.
Head of catering.
I'm not sure I agree with you.
Actually, I’m sure I don’t. You’re absolutely right that Bevell’s offense has been predictable, and I think that he (and Pete, to an extent, or maybe even more) is proud of it. He wants to bang and smash and knock the other team down, with the occasional trick play or playaction bomb to provide a little flash and get defenders off the line of scrimmage.
In this way he’s as stubborn as Holmgren, whose philosophy for most of his time here was execution, execution, execution. If you block your guy just right, run your slant with the right steps, make the right reads, no defense could (in theory) stop you.
I’m no expert on football. But I can watch Bevell line guys up on the field and go “oh hey, this’ll be a bubble screen to Tate”, “zone stretch to the right”, or “playaction pass deep to Rice”. I remember seeing Butler’s first game back, and watching them line him up in the 22 (21? The one with double TE’s and two backs)… and saying to myself “Bevell’s just dying to run a max-protect deep pass”. We tried, and it didn’t work.
We did a similar thing last week on the Lockette deep TD pass. I watched them line up Jackson in the shotgun with two backs in the backfield with him, and Lockette out wide. I said to myself this was going to be a max-protect deep pass: make your fastest guy go deep and make sure you’ve got time to throw it. How Arizona didn’t read this absolutely baffles me… what the hell was the safety doing on this play?
This kind of stuff works great every once in a while, but against better defences you’re going to need more flexibility and depth to your offense. Bevell and co. have shown that they’re willing to adapt (see: the hurry-up offense, and the subsequent move to Beast Mode 24/7) but to me it looks like we’re ending up with a bare-bones, “kiddy” version.
Understandably, some of this is due to Jackson, but what worries me is that bringing him in as a placeholder means that they want to run this kind of offense long-term.
It seems to me you don't disagree,
but have more of a nuanced grasp of the nature of the predictability. And seem maybe more worried about what problematic it is? Maybe that’s disagreement, since I’m somewhat diminishing its impact.
Head of catering.
Yep, that sounds about right.
I think maybe what I’m worried about is that Bevell is predictable because he simply doesn’t know any better. This seems like a crazy thing to say about a professional coach, and I’m more likely to think that he’s predictable because he’s stubborn and stuck in a 1957 mentality to offense.
He does more to enable a response to a defensive move, than to create a mismatch.
Of course I’d still rather go with an offense like Sean Payton’s, stretching the defense with a number of options that figure to produce one mismatch, and protecting like hell to allow the QB to see the one that breaks open and hit it.
To a degree that does put you in a corner, and Carroll & Bevell seem to like to take an approach that gives them a workable response to whatever the defense does.
Within reason. They still don’t have a good hot route or audible system. It’s in place but it’s not good. I dunno why.
Bevell will line up, basically willing to run or pass. Success breeds a defensive response that he can exploit. Run til they stack the box, and any run formation and play allows for a PA that specifically attacks the vacated coverage. Break some big plays open, then quickly eat up the space sacrificed on the ground.
I think where we still differ is I think this is a problem that surfaces when the talent & execution aren’t good enough. For an offense like we just had, it rears its head, but an improved offense will sustain drives and capitalize in a way that rendera predictability harmless, while still being present.
Head of catering.
Not to derail a good discussion,
But fan’s complaints about Holmgren’s predictability were situational (FB draw on third-and-long, etc). You couldn’t tell what he was going to run just from the personell on the field because he changed it up so often.
Bevell doesn’t bother to hide his personell tendencies, and, like you said, he and Carroll get too cute at times. They have some really good standard Red Zone running plays and passing plays, but they discard those too often because they themselves feel they’re too predictable. Its like they are deliberately showing tendencies just so they can whip out the surprise trick play that’ll get them a TD every time.
But this could just be baby steps in a new offense.
Doubt this will get read 100 plus comments down but..
Firstly, just made my first seahawks game in Arizona. YAY!! WHAT A GAME!! FU&* YOU TO THE A$$HOLE THAT MADE MY WIFE CRY!! (and had me miss half the second quarter consoling her. Thankfully, didnt miss much.)
Secondly, theres alot of players that like playing for Pete Carrol. I think its because of his huge feet. The guy is like under 6 foot and wears clown shoes for christ’s sake.
That being said, we’ll see what kind of guys Bryant and Lynch are. Both of em seem like good dudes. But we’ll see what Lynch signs for before or after Forte gets paid. It would be devastating to us fans to lose these guys but in the end we gotta move on ya know.
I really hope they resign both of em. Even if its because Im broke and I dont wanna hang my Marshawn Lynch jersey in the closet next season and have to buy a new one. Next to Hasselbeck, Kerney, Tatupu, Alexander, and Julius Jones(it was on sale).
Would like to see both of them re-signed but...
Marshawn Lynch is instrumental in the running game. He runs tough and hard, which is the kind of physical back Pete Caroll wants for the offense. And part of the reason the offensive line blocked better (which a lot of them have admitted) is because they tried harder when they see how hard he runs. The same goes for how Michael Robinson has lead-blocked his way to a first team alternate. The guy is arguably as important to the offense than Tom Brady is to the Patriots. There just aren’t many RBs who run like him and we certainly don’t have one.
Forgot about Red
I do see Bryant as more of a situational player though. He just isn’t a guy who will put consistent pressure on the QB or collapse a pocket. And I think we could find a DE who can stop the run as well as him and still pass rush like a beast in the draft.
By the way,
How cheap can we sign John Carlson for?
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Apparently Carlson made comments earlier today that make it sound like he doesn't
want to come back.
A change of scenery is probably best for him anyway.
Still hate to see him go.
by the other side on Jan 2, 2012 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
interesting situation...what if Indy picks him up? Plus Luck
huh.
Heresy grows from idleness.
Check out my story at Fanfiction.net
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7456440/1/Tide_of_War_Mass_Effect_Warhammer_Crossover
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 2, 2012 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm...time to give dominique byrd another look next preseason?
Morrah and McCoy seem to be dropping more balls than usual
Heresy grows from idleness.
Check out my story at Fanfiction.net
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7456440/1/Tide_of_War_Mass_Effect_Warhammer_Crossover
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 2, 2012 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
carlson will prly end up in detroit or titans its where all exhawks go
by Dominic Matlock on Jan 2, 2012 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
Please don't hesitate to use proper spelling and grammar
It’s so much nicer on the eyes, and easier to read and understand.
by Matt Erickson on Jan 3, 2012 12:34 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He shouldn't come back, for his own sake
And don’t think he’s that valuable to this team anyway.
Formerly knows as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 2, 2012 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
I would have liked to see him actually get a chance to run some routes.
Instead of being forced to block all the time.
Not unless they let him go out for a pass once in a while.
He’d be a pretty good crutch for a rookie quarterback…
Thats what I don't like about these comment sections.
You reply to someone and its a full page down.
Source to Carlson’s comments?
uh oh for stanford
Heresy grows from idleness.
Check out my story at Fanfiction.net
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by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 2, 2012 9:20 PM PST reply actions
wrong thread
Heresy grows from idleness.
Check out my story at Fanfiction.net
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7456440/1/Tide_of_War_Mass_Effect_Warhammer_Crossover
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 2, 2012 9:20 PM PST reply actions
Basically, from what I gather here
A vote of no confidence for Big Red is a vote of no confidence regarding our current scheme.
I can see the argument.
But it does seem that the PC regime values undervaled players in prime positions. It schemes around the “elite pass rusher” that every team covets.
That said, I have a hard time believing they’d abandon the philosophy (that seems to be progressing towards good if not elite).
Perhaps the pass rushing problem is more of a LBer issue given the scheme. Hawthorne and Hill are pretty one dimensional. Both are from the prior regime. Maybe JS/PC have an AJ Hawk or (dare to dream) Mathews in mind.
by vertigoman on Jan 2, 2012 9:40 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Hawk or Mathews type of player I should say
Neither is available as far as I know
by vertigoman on Jan 2, 2012 9:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Hill is actually our most versitile LB. He is playing weakside, where early on he played strong side.
He is quick, can cover, blitz(4 sacks) and run stuff. plus he hits like a train
i like hill too but he's like an everydown player and although he's not the fastest guys from side to side
he smacks you and you go down
The weak link, unfortunately, is Hawthrone.
He simply can rush the passer or cover the middle of the field.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Yeah, he was playing with a knee problem all year.
I think he’s normally going to be a more explosive player than he was this season. But if our front 7 was talented enough he’d probably come off the field in every passing situation.
This defense will never be good.
How do we beat the curse?
He can cover? That's news to me.
I seem to remember him getting frequently beat this year bye tight ends and running backs.
That's kind of what I meant in general
Maybe Hill and or Hawthorne are scheme problems.
If you use a 5 tech like red, maybe we need faster more versitile Lbers. Hill kind of strikes me as overkill on the run stuffing front.
Maybe I’m wrong.
At any rate, I just don’t see the team going away from something that certainly seems to be working in regards to red
by vertigoman on Jan 2, 2012 11:34 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's a good way of summing it up.
It should also be noted there are zero tangible indications the team may move away from this defensive scheme. And a handful of indications they’re inclined to stick with it. I wouldn’t call it wishful thinking, but attempting to understand the philosophy & system behind the scheme design, that leads some of us to wonder whether they’ll make a change. We see how this cookie crumbles — it doesn’t generate enough consistent pressure, and it’s clearly a schematic factor and not a talent one (though not a factor insurmountable with the right talent) — and so we wonder if there is a change in the works to address it.
Head of catering.
hey thomas beaker
i think a year ago or two players wanted to leave this organization and team. is my memory serving me right? its awesome that players openly express their desire to stay. i think both these players are going to get paid.
Lawrence Jackson said he wanted to leave
He was sleeping through meetings and he wasn’t giving it his all and Pete Carroll was a big bad meanie for not wanting a player like that wah :(
I agree with the majority. Brock was the problem, not Bryant.
Brock had a ton of opportunities during the season on third and long, but didn’t deliver. They need a pass rusher on that side to do the job Brock couldn’t.
Not Sure If This Was Mentioned About Red
But the entire locker room sees Red as an inspiration and leader of the D.
When Earl Thomas was interviewed, he mentioned something Red told him at the beginning of the season on how he was a special player and he had the opportunity to make everyone else around him better.
I truly believe that this played a factor in Earl’s play this year.
The rest of the team views him as their leader. He sets the tone, plays the game with the passion and energy that is a good example to all his teammates.
This kind of stuff is immeasurable. Red has more value to this team than anyone else in the league, because of the example he leads by. The front office should keep him signed, at least till the age of 30.
Live work and breathe like an optimist.
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