Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Seahawks Rookie Report on the 2011 Class

Greetings Seahawks fans. First, allow me to apologize for this final report taking so long to get out. As it turns out, I'm ear deep in 2012 draft stuff and bouncing all over the country in the process. What the extra time did allow for, was more 2011 Seahawks game replays, and a closer look at the play of all of the rookies. So...let's get to it.

Here are my final Seahawks rookie rankings for the 2011 season.

1. Richard Sherman - I know I've had K.J. Wright here for the last couple of reports, but after spending time watching several of the games over again, and in evaluating Sherman across a larger body of work than I had in previous reports, he was clearly the best performer of the rookies this season. Sherman no longer gets the "future Pro Bowler" tab. He played like a first team All-Pro for the majority of his time as the team's starter at left corner. The combination of size, strength and speed to go with the level of physicality and aggression that he applies those tangible physical, give him an out-of-sight ceiling at this point.

The most surprising element of his game to me, has been in the instincts and awareness department. The guy knows when the ball is coming out, where it's going to be and how to attack it. He also knows how to smother a receiver without interfering (something that Brandon Browner struggled mightily with this season -if you're looking for a contrast) and he's a fundamental tackler who provides above average run support for the position. There are two main reasons why the instincts have been surprising to me.

First off, he's a rookie. A lot of rookies have come off a recent college season where they displayed good instincts, but then they struggle to adjust at the NFL level because the instincts have to be sped up, and demand for quicker response forces a longer learning curve. Sherman adapted quickly from the time Trufant went on IR and really only improved as time went on. Think about it. How many flat out blown coverages did you see out of Sherman this season. I found one (see Brandon Lloyd TD @ St. Louis) that truly impacted the game, and then another two or three where the opposing QB missed so the impact wasn't felt (see Baltimore game - Torrey Smith got behind him a couple of times but was over-thrown).

The second reason that the instincts have surprised me, is because of the late position switch from receiver during his first couple of school years at Stanford, to cornerback. He has learned quickly, and it shows. This isn't a raw athlete making plays on speed and size who should eventually be picked apart with some decent film study. He's a blanket cover man with above-average ball skills, diagnostics, fluidity in reverse, a smooth transition to run with receivers, and the ability to explode to the ball. He needs to control his emotions on the field as we saw against St. Louis, but you have to love the fire he plays with. Devin McCourty had a sophomore slump this season. Sherman can't relax and take his rookie season as a guarantee that he has it all figured out, but he's also a more impressive total package than McCourty.

2. K.J. Wright - To avoid sounding like a broken record, I'll try to say all the same things, but differently. Whatever. With Wright, like Sherman, he simply learns and adapts extremely quickly and doesn't make a lot of mistakes. Most importantly, he doesn't repeat mistakes. What I don't want to do, which I think I've done a bit in past reports, is focus so much on the instincts, that the impressive tangibles get overlooked. The facts are, the guy is a shade under 6'4 and 246lbs. That's a good-sized linebacker in a league where the 6'0, 225lbs outside 'backer is becoming the more popular choice to play the outside positions.

This shift to the smaller linebacker is due to the need for better speed and short area quickness, so that defenses can more effectively combat the pass-heavy offensive attacks that are taking over the league. Wright can hang with the little guys though. His explosive first step and fluidity in space in combination with the length and size allow him to cover some impressive real estate quickly. He's a solid starter who may never make a Pro Bowl, but should give the team no reason to need a replacement at the position for several years. A true long-term starter.

3. Doug Baldwin - A clear theme among the top three here has materialized - These are all consistent contributors who learn quickly, avoid mistakes and display a level of football intelligence beyond their years. The team's leading receiver this year not only became the go-to possession guy for Tarvaris Jackson, but was routinely the guy who Jackson clearly trusted the most to make plays in critical situations, particularly on third down. He finds space more than he beats press so he'll probably never be a consistent outside guy, but that simply doesn't matter.

Forgive the harsh tone, but scouts (particularly in media) who undervalue receivers for their inability to beat press on the edges, particularly receivers who have proven to be consistent contributors from the slot in clutch situations at the college level, are irresponsible evaluators and their reasoning is often nothing short of moronic. Baldwin being a steal had more to do with the failure of all 32 teams to properly evaluate him and less to do with Seattle's great scouting department, although they clearly ended up being the ones to get it right. They still got it right way too late.

I think Kris Durham is going to be a good NFL receiver so long as he can stay healthy. But who was needed and ultimately, utilized more between he and Baldwin? Scouts had better stop letting the stupid size issue factor in so heavily to their evaluations. Not just at receiver, either. At any position. Consistent, fundamentally sound contributors at the college level who display football intelligence early, rarely bust. Explosive athletes with incredible measurables bust all the time. As "Peter Brand" said in Moneyball, it's not about buying players, it's about buying wins (paraphrasing), and Doug Baldwin will get you wins. In fact, Richard Sherman, K.J. Wright and Doug Baldwin will all get you wins, despite Baldwin going undrafted and both Sherman and Wright being overlooked for the first 3 rounds.

4. James Carpenter - The sample size was smaller than we'd all hoped for, but Carpenter did flash an array of promising skills at right tackle, and briefly and left guard. He's extremely nimble considering his massive frame, possesses upper and lower half power, and can really deliver a pop of the line. Struggles came primarily in pass protection but had little to do with physical limitations and a lot to do with misdiagnosing and failing to properly anticipate his opponents' move.

The improvement in this area was gradual over his body of work, but it was certainly evident, which suggested that he was beginning to understand and anticipate better. He wasn't a very consistent "instincts" guy at Alabama, so there were always questions there for me. However, the power and rare size/quickness and flexibility combo made him intriguing and he did show enough intelligence and recovery ability to warrant a lower first round grade in my opinion. And I think he played like a low first round offensive tackle on a young team in a new scheme. He's a long-term starter at right tackle or guard given that he stays healthy, but if he wants to be a legitimate top tier lineman, he'll need to do a better job of coming into camp in shape, continuing to take and make corrections, and be more consistent at getting into position off the snap.

He can trap, seal, pancake and explode at the point of attack. He gets down field and can square up at the second level. He can do it all. It's the intelligence piece that is still in question for me, but he can be an average tackle on a good team as is. His chances of becoming a pro bowler would probably be enhanced with a move to the inside (i.e. left guard) which wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility if there's a better tackle prospect available for Seattle to draft in the next year or two, and other need areas are filled.

Star-divide

5. John Moffitt - Moffitt grades similar to Carpenter in the sense that he struggled primarily in pass protection but also showed gradual improvement as the season went on. Where Moffitt is superior, in my opinion, is in the instincts and awareness department. He picked the game and the scheme up quicker than Carpenter, and targeted better off the line on run plays.

He was more decisive when engaging with defenders, and played with more confidence early on than Carpenter did. Where he's inferior to Carpenter is in the area of athleticism and physical gifts. He doesn't have the surprisingly nimble feet that Carpenter possesses, and while Moffitt displays toughness, he lacks the natural power to blow guys off the block. His intelligence though, makes up for those deficiencies and he showed an improved ability to use leverage as a pro during his rookie campaign.

He understands that a sole reliance on raw power and strength won't work at this level as it did at Wisconsin. The footwork could improve, but I don't expect him to get a whole lot better in pass protection. He's above average at getting through the initial block and into the second level as a zone blocker for the run, and he's flexible enough in his lower half to bend and snap a guy back at the initial point of attack. I think he's a mainstay at right guard for the next few years, but he needs to continue to improve in the highly competitive environment that Pete Carroll fosters.

Brandon Browner gets a mention here as I don't consider him a true rookie. Sorry. And even if he were, I would rank him somewhere between Doug Baldwin and John Moffitt, although long term, I think Browner's upside is limited. The six picks this year, though exciting, were owed in the sense that he was perhaps the team's biggest on-field cost (in the penalty sense) over the course of the season. A couple of the picks were impressive, but there were also a couple that bounced the right way after being tipped. I think he has a decent nose for the ball and you have to love the size, but I'll gladly admit that I'll be the guy screaming the loudest for Seattle to pick Morris Claiborne with the 11th or 12th pick should he be available there come April. The right side of the field is by no means locked down by Browner.

I like what I saw from Byron Maxwell, particularly on special teams. I think he has a chance to be a nickel contributor next season who possesses the speed and press competence to flip to the outside from time-to-time and his upside as a pure corner, I think, is higher than a Roy Lewis or Kennard Cox.

Malcolm Smith thus far is a really fast linebacker who loves to run and hit. That said, he needs to improve as a fundamental tackler and block-shedder if he's ever going to get consistent time as a linebacker. He could certainly be a contributor on blitz packages considering his elite speed for the position, but instinctively we just haven't seen enough to know what he's fully capable of.

I liked what I saw in Ricardo Lockette over the last couple of games. He can do what we all knew he could do - Fly. That said, I was most impressed with his ability to track the ball over his shoulder, as well as maintain concentration and focus to reel the ball in off the tip. He's much better with the ball in the air than I had anticipated and he's a more natural receiver than scouts had described him to be.

Please, stop with the Michael Bates comparisons. He's a better natural pass catcher than Bates already and it takes more than speed (as Bates's lack of WR production proved) to be a consistent NFL deep threat. You have to locate and track the ball, and you have to adjust speeds to create separation, all of which Lockette appears to have an idea of how to do.

There are a few others to consider for next season. Pep Levingston is a good athlete who will be a better contributor from the inside than the outside if he's going to have an NFL career, but the inactive hands and shoulder-leading approach off the ball won't get him far. He needs some fundamental work. He was a decent 7th round pick, as this is where you usually take the unathletic over-achiever, or the athletic underperformer with potential for further development. he's the latter.

Kris Durham could be a really good receiver at the NFL level. He just has to stay healthy. I said it last year and I'll say it again going into 2012 - He needs to eat some meat. Plain and simple, his body may not take the NFL beating for very long. That said, he runs really clean routes and I think, will challenge Mike WIlliams for that starting WR spot opposite Sidney Rice in 2012. Fundamentally, he's that ready. The health is the main concern. He's got some burst too, so he gives you more field-stretch than Williams.

Bottom line, this draft class had the greatest immediate impact of any that I can recall over the past decade. And the greatest value was found in the middle rounds and undrafted free agency. Congratulations to John Schneider and Pete Carroll for a haul of talent that was scrutinized and criticized by many of the "experts" immediately following the draft, as perhaps the worst of any team in 2011.

Now...back to the draft stuff.

Comment 100 comments  |  6 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Very nicely done, thanks.

ONLY IN SEATTLE:
By swaggering could I never thrive,
For the rain, it raineth every day.

by Hawksince77 on Jan 20, 2012 1:51 PM PST reply actions  

Muchas gracias.

Nice report. I agree on pretty much everything. Nice to see Carpenter getting a good appraisal….i think he’s going to get better and be a bookend with Big Russ for a decade.

by Emperor_MA on Jan 20, 2012 1:53 PM PST reply actions  

Great post.

I’m anxious to see how our young players specifically Sherman progress after such a successful season especially as a rookie, I hope like you said that he continues to work to
Improve. His slightly cocky or confident attitude worries me a bit in this area even though he’s already shown that he is a hard worker.

Also what do you guys’ think is the best position for Wright, he looks like a good fit At the mike to me since he’s so instinctual and hes shown flashes of capable coverage, but i love his explosive first step blitzing off the edge from the OLB position and I wonder if he would be as effective doing that from the mike.

by Max6500 on Jan 20, 2012 2:11 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Wright

Defiantely has every ounce it takes to be a great MLB, he has great size, great football intellegence, and is a hard worker(All season he studdied both MLB and OLB) He has great run instincts. He can set an egde or fill a hole equally well. He is a very good tackler. His speed is below average though and that is a major concern for an OLB, he has a great innitial burst, but often times blockers easily “catch up” to him.

Carroll is looking to upgrade LB speed, and that is most useful, in this division, in covering TEs as an OLB, Wright, Hill nor Hawthorne can keep up with Davis or Heap. He definately has enough speed (just barely) and size to play Tampa-2, or take more passing lane away in zones, hawthorne gives up a lot in both of these situations. Man to man he will more often be matched up with fullbacks, who tend to be less of a pass threat than TEs, though not really slower.

So my verdict is MLB, some think he is wasting his talent there, but I think its allowing someone with more speed to be utilized to increase the whole package. Wright is a major upgrade at MLB His burst on pass rush will be more effective on a center than a tackle. We can bring in a OLB who can bring speed to coverage and pass rushing.

by Oliudyen on Jan 20, 2012 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I sort of like him at SAM.

His length, fluidity, and instincts work well there. I want to see if he can further develop as a pass rusher. He has the right tools and SAM seems like a better position to make the most of them.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 20, 2012 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

thats where im torn

i feel like putting him in the middle will limit his overal effectivness pass rushing, and maybe his oppertunities.

by Max6500 on Jan 20, 2012 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

i agree.

i really like him at the mike for those reasons but his speed worries me in coverage, for instance in the tampa 2 where he would need to be able to effectivly cover the deep middle.

A speedy linebacker is certainly somthing we need, especially with the TEs in our division so i really dont see us drafting luke keuchly, and when i was watching zach brown he didnt seem like a sound tackler.

by Max6500 on Jan 20, 2012 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I am pretty excited

About the quality of the pick from this draft and the rookie FA’s. I think lineman can really make a big improvement from year one to year two. Hopefully those two lineman we drafted can heal quickly and get as many reps as they can before the season starts.

by bigtrain21 on Jan 20, 2012 2:14 PM PST via Android app reply actions  

i really hope carpenter shows up to camp in shape this year.

i realy dont want him to be like andre smith, and thats a weak comparison at best probably but it still worries me.

by Max6500 on Jan 20, 2012 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure Carpenter will be at camp

It sounded like his injury recovery might extend well into August or early September.

by Buster! on Jan 20, 2012 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

They said 9 months at the time

And it happened on Nov 17 so that is spot on. I hope it is on the early side.

by bigtrain21 on Jan 20, 2012 7:07 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Good write up.

I would really like to know what the general consensus of Sherman would be from around the league. I wonder how many people think he has a pro-bowl ceiling and I wonder what type of pick teams would trade for him.

by neel on Jan 20, 2012 2:19 PM PST reply actions  

Are you trying to sabotage the Hawks?

Why would you want to trade Sherman? He is our best cornerback.

Regarding Browner, it has taken me awhile to get used to him staring at the receiver and never looking for the ball. His strategy seems to be run downfield with the receiver and bat the ball away as the receiver grabs it. I would prefer he swiveled his head and looked for the ball. But I guess the other strategy works.

by AlaskaHawk on Jan 20, 2012 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I can tell you...

Various people around the league believe he closed out the season as one of the top 3 to 5 corners in all of football. He’s good.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 20, 2012 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Source?

Come on, if you can really say that, you gotta write it.

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."

by shams on Jan 21, 2012 12:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice.
Just behind them, the only rookie to crack the Top 10 makes his presence felt–not the aforementioned Peterson, but rather Richard Sherman. Great drafting Seattle.

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."

by shams on Jan 21, 2012 1:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Name 5 corners who played better...

Anytime someone says “I wouldn’t call _ a ______”, there must be reasoning behind it.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 21, 2012 7:29 AM PST up reply actions  

I think it's a really bad idea to grade players on reputation

and this is doubly true for defensive backs, whose work we don’t often see. This is all before we take into account the fact that fans tend to overvalue their own players relative to other players.

You are the one making a claim so you have the responsibility of supporting it. I’m not going to try to refute your nameless “scouts and former NFL scouts”.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 21, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Wow

Browner allowed the 7th most amount of yards of any starting corner. I wonder what that total is with penalty yards included?

A fistful of brass. My sigs are always behind the times.

I'm a one man rec'n crew

by jubelthebear on Jan 21, 2012 10:00 AM PST up reply actions  

I actually don't have to write anything...

I’m not quoting a source. There are scouts and former NFL scouts who have implied what I stated. Nobody has to believe it. :)

by Derek Stephens on Jan 21, 2012 7:32 AM PST up reply actions  

I mean "you have to" because it would be an interesting piece to read.

Not because you are ethically bound in some way.

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."

by shams on Jan 21, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I totally disagree with your assessment of Browner

Take away the penalties he committed and evaluate him. Obviously, penalties factor into the overall picture, but he was so good in man coverage, I’d gladly accept penalties (less than this year I’d hope) in exchange for his being able to take receivers 1 on 1. His disruption of routes, excellent special teams play, ability to play the ball in the air, all excellent. Would you rather have Tru or Browner? Additionally, please do NOT select a corner with that pick. PC/JS have shown they can consistently (ok, sample size) find secondary talent late in the draft. I’d much rather take the 3rd DT or pass rushing DE or OLB than the first corner at 11.

by BiNgOsHaDo on Jan 20, 2012 3:14 PM PST reply actions  

The problem with Browner

Isn’t the way he plays man coverage. He’s just below average down field when the ball is in the air. Unfortunately, Seattle runs a scheme that requires these corners to turn and run a majority of the time rather than jam and drop them off into a cover 2 or some type of zone. He’s really good at the line, and when he can get his hands on a guy, he’s extremely disruptive in press coverage. It’s when the ball is in the air where he’s lacking pretty significantly. It got a little better toward the end of the season which is why I’m not saying “definitely replace him”. But I am saying he’s not irreplaceable and he’s certainly upgrade-able. Say what you want about the penalties, but they’re costly. Let’s look for him to curb those.

And unfortunately, as as guy who’s looked pretty hard at the prospects for 2012, there is no DE or DT worth the 11th or 12th pick in this draft, and if Morris Claiborne is sitting there (which he won’t be), he’ll be better than any DT or DE available at that point. You’re better off to trade down and grab more picks.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 20, 2012 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Browner is below average down field

Because he looks at the receiver instead of the ball.

by AlaskaHawk on Jan 20, 2012 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

It's called Jenningsing the coverage.

Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Jan 20, 2012 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey, let's be fair now...

…to Browner. Jennings wasn’t aware that the game of football was played by a certain ellipsoid leather object.

Heresy grows from idleness.
Why get Matt Flynn?
"Also, for what it’s worth, if we get Flynn, New England and Detroit are on the schedule!" - SSreporters

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 20, 2012 5:33 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Browner>>>>>>Jennings

Do or do not, there is no try-Yoda

by ironheart777 on Jan 20, 2012 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, significantly so

But he does remind one of Jennings in this sense. The difference is Browner will often wildly flail his arms around at the last moment, and in doing so get a PD. Jennings couldn’t do that, he didn’t have the physique.

Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Jan 20, 2012 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Browner is not even comparable to

Jennings did you see him in the wildcard game? The guy could get a PI if he even wanted too. The majority of Browners penalties where early in the season. He is still adjusting from the CFL where CB can be more hands on. I think there is a reason he was the top CB there.

by Southhill Seahawk on Jan 20, 2012 9:24 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

*couldn’t get a PI

by Southhill Seahawk on Jan 20, 2012 9:28 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I wasn't talking about PIs at all

And Browner ran an unusual press-man format in the CFL, which is mostly a zone-based game due to the difference in rules in WRs getting running starts, pressing and size of the field.

Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Jan 20, 2012 11:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Not if you're looking to upgrade the pass rush...

No. I like Ingram, but he’s a top 30, not a top 11 or 12. Upshaw isn’t going to be a dynamic edge rusher at the next level. He should be a really solid strong side contributor who can set the edge from a stand up or down position.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 20, 2012 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you think Ingram can line up inside

at the next level like he does at S.C.? That seems like somthing the organization values a lot, versatility that is.

by Max6500 on Jan 21, 2012 9:15 AM PST up reply actions  

He's too small (mostly) at 276lbs.

He couldn’t play 3-tech on base downs but could probably kick inside on passing downs.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 21, 2012 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Really nice article.

You give a nice snap-shot of what each guy offers presently and where he needs to improve.

I totally agree about Sherman. He has all the makings of a true shut-down corner. His quickness given his height and length is remarkable. I especially love the way he reaches around the receiver to break up the pass without interfering.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 20, 2012 3:20 PM PST reply actions  

Kirkpatrick has more speed I would guess.

But i agree about Sherman having better coverage skills.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 20, 2012 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

In a straight line...

I’m guessing it’s pretty close, but hip fluidity and agility are more important anyway. Kirkpatrick closes really well on balls in front of him, but struggles to turn and run. I think he could be good, but I still take Sherman between the two.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 20, 2012 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh I agree.

Kirkpatrick is stiff. He certainly fits the mold as a big, fast, physical corner though. You gotta think we’ll at least consider him in the first. I wonder about using Kirkpatrick as our “big nickel” against TEs while he hopefully develops his coverage skills.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 20, 2012 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

*also then/than.

This is really just nitpicking as far as I’m concerned, but others seem really upset by that specific grammatical error.

by brugg on Jan 20, 2012 5:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Depends on the upgrade.

If we’re going on positional value alone then QB should be the pick.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 20, 2012 5:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes...

If the front 7 could be upgraded with a top-12-worthy player…which I don’t think there are any of in this year’s high 1st round. I’m not as high on Brockers as some, and I’m definitely not as high on Coples as pretty much everyone else.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 20, 2012 7:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Brockers

just looks so raw sometimes (probably becase he is), and he looks like he plays a little high on some snaps and struggles to shed blocks at times also, at least to me.

by Max6500 on Jan 20, 2012 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

This top of this draft class just seems weak in general.

I admit that I like Brockers a lot. The key for me with Brockers is he has a motor. The technique can be developed and he’s obviously an athlete. Coples doesn’t interest me much.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 21, 2012 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

This is a bad ass draft for O line.

If Martin falls down to us like a lot of mocks I’ve seen have him I wouldn’t object to them taking another tackle.

70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.

by hazbro24 on Jan 21, 2012 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

That's the best argument for Osweiler in the first round

other than WR, I don’t see any better prospects who are likely to be available (contra hazbro, I tend to think the OL prospects are somewhat overblown). If it’s a choice of lower-ceiling and higher-risk players, might as well roll the dice on QB.

"Baseball isn't the world's best distraction, but only because it's so easy to start a fire." --Jeff Sullivan

by The Ancient Mariner on Jan 21, 2012 8:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I can definitely understand this argument.

Despite thinking it would be a reach, I wouldn’t be upset if we picked Osweiler. It would be very exciting. However, I see enough other QBs I like in this class that my heart is not set on Osweiler, although I do really like him. I’d rather go defense with a Brockers, Still, Kuechly, or Brown pick.

I’d hope that we’d look to trade down if Osweiler’s the direction we want to go.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 21, 2012 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

That is true, but the nature of the tackle position.

you face more elite pass rushers, and dont get as much help.

by Oliudyen on Jan 20, 2012 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Completely understand...

But if you still have any game footage from when the running game really started taking off…watch Carpenter, particularly at the 2nd level blowing guys up. Also pay close attention to how much better he’s moving his feet to mirror the rusher in pass protection. Then watch Moffitt. I like both guys, but I see a bigger upside with Carpenter.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 20, 2012 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

In the Second Half I saw a lot more explosiveness

from the whole line in general, but I do remember thinking on a couple of plays “Wow Carpenter has more speed than I thought.”

by Oliudyen on Jan 23, 2012 12:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Carpentor

Here is a guy that played the left side his entire life.. He gets to the big leagues and now has to play the right side. It’s like telling a boxer after he turns Pro he has to fight south paw now. He’s going to get worked. He will become much better at RT. He will have training camp and a full off season. I don’t think it had anything to do with smarts but everything to do with lack of experience.

by Redzone59 on Jan 20, 2012 4:59 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Carpenter was

Really smooth in college. Good leverage, good feet. needed to work on his hands. But that was playing the left side.

by Redzone59 on Jan 20, 2012 7:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

It's a lot more complicated than that.

Sherman showed excellent instincts anticipating the throw. As a receiver it’s “easy” because you already have an idea about when the ball will come out. Sherman didn’t display such instincts playing CB in college. He’s had to develop them and it’s a reach to believe his experience as a WR helped much at all in that respect.

What his experience at WR maybe did help with are his ball skills.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 20, 2012 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't say I watched Sherman play CB in college,

But having played WR certainly would give him insight into the types of moves and fakes that receivers utilize to gain an edge, and therefore help his anticipation and instincts, especially jamming at the line. The negative of having played WR for two years in college is that it was two fewer years at CB. Between the two you’d rather have the DB experience, obviously. Sherman has weaknesses against speedy cutting guys, but those ball skills compliment the Carroll scheme almost to perfection.

by Groundhog on Jan 20, 2012 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I feel like with faster LBs that can cover their zones better, the speedy receiver threat can be neutralized to a degree

right now, we have Model-T’s running around trying to cover TEs. Just pass the fast WR off and force the QB to make an absurdly good throw past a LB who can really run right into the throwing lane

Heresy grows from idleness.
Why get Matt Flynn?
"Also, for what it’s worth, if we get Flynn, New England and Detroit are on the schedule!" - SSreporters

by Corax --Nevermore-- on Jan 20, 2012 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

You're right

but in one respects it’s Sherman who has the advantage over speedy receivers since he’s so physical in press coverage. That will cause a lot of speedy receivers problems.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 20, 2012 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

True...

But a transition from a backpedal, and the reactive nature of the position is completely different than the proactive nature of playing receiver. As for the way he plays the ball in the air…absolutely, the WR experience definitely helps.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 20, 2012 7:23 PM PST up reply actions  

But Carroll's scheme pretty much asks the CB to force the WR into a specific zone.

For example, there are times Sherman only has to cover the WR up the sideline and let the Safeties/LBs handle the other stuff. Therefore he can line up and use his physicality to jam the WR in a certain direction. That takes away a lot of the Reactive and makes it Proactive (though he has assimilated DB technique awfully well considering). He’s not asked to be a true Reactive shutdown corner (like Tru).

by Groundhog on Jan 20, 2012 7:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmmmm....

Nope. Not the majority of the time. Sometimes sure. Every team plays some zone, some of the time. But this is far from a straight up Cover 2 or any other type of zone defense. The majority of the time, CBs are asked to play man straight up.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 20, 2012 9:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, but when playing man, they're asked to jam to one side or the other.

In the example listed above, jam to the QB side to force the WR toward the sideline, then remain on the inside shoulder of the WR. It’s not “zone” as much as “technique”.

by Groundhog on Jan 22, 2012 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Love this write up.

Thanks, and I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the draft as they come together.

It was just intense, and it was ball, and it was juice. The juice level in that room was high, and it was awesome.

by mister bunny on Jan 20, 2012 6:29 PM PST reply actions  

Hey Derek what's your take on the LB situation?

I know that Pete said they won’t move Heater back to Will and KJ to Mike while they’re on the same team. Do you see KJ’s projecting better at Sam or Mike? And I know you re-watched with the rookies in mind, but what’s your evaluation of Heater and Hill?

I personally don’t feel like I care to see much more of Hill, at least as a starter. I think he’s been overrated a bit, and that he’s one of the primary reasons the team ranked 32nd in receiving RB DVOA. He just doesn’t seem to be as natural or comfortable in space. And I have such a hard time remembering Heater is only 26. He seems so much older. Was he really hampered by injuries this year that should be behind him next year, or should they be willing to let both of them walk and look for upgrades at Mike and Will (or move KJ to Mike and upgrade at Sam)?

The artist formerly known as mattlock.

Twitter! -- Facebook!

by Matt Erickson on Jan 20, 2012 8:16 PM PST reply actions  

I'm no expert but I am willing to guess that Hill will be gone, or signed to a one year veteran minimum salary again.

If he is brought back, I would expect to see him as a backup to a new draft pick.

Heater looks a lot older because he was injured all season…literally. He first hurt his knee(s) in week 1 against San Francisco if I am not mistaken. My guess is he will be back on a 3 year deal.

Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"

by Bobby Cink on Jan 20, 2012 11:16 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah..

I expect at least one linebacker, if not two, to be grabbed in this year’s draft. Depth is the big need there, although Hill should suffice for another year at least. We’ll see what direction the front office wants to go. Biggest need on defense….sorry….biggest need on the TEAM is pass rush. But you’re right. LB depth could turn into a major issue if both Hill and Hawthorne take off.

by Derek Stephens on Jan 20, 2012 9:05 PM PST reply actions  

In the past two drafts we've always cleared a spot for our top rookie draft picks to start right away,

with the exception being Golden Tate. To me it seems like LB is a position ripe for a repeat of this trend. Not to mention that Pete wants to improve our team speed on defense. I wonder about Luke Kuechly or Zach Brown being our “safe” options if we’re not sold on players at more valuable positions or a trade down.

by Ben Harbaugh on Jan 21, 2012 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Reminder....

Couple of comments on Carp….. Don’t forget Carp is not projected to be in training camp this coming year and likely not able to play early in the season….. drafting “another” top lineman with our #1st pick is not out of the formula…. Carp eventually moving back to the left side at guard when he returns to health…

For me, I sure like Browner….. He’s tough… Added a lot to our secondary… I can’t wait to see this group play another year together…. I say ‘baloney’ to the penalties….

BTW… Great article… A really excellent addition of first year Hawk players! I guess I have high expectations of PC/JS, but this group is WAY more than we should expect every year! Pretty awesome!

Only omission I see here is Portis.. We continue to get very limited info on him… Wouldn’t it be interesting if he’s our QBOTF? Give him this shortened training year to get comfortable and then the ‘opportunity to compete’ this coming year with the mini camps, outside connections, etc? Hmmmmm….. Just makes me wonder….

by IBGoofy on Jan 20, 2012 10:06 PM PST reply actions  

As a Seattle fan.

I get a little over the whole “our third string later round pick is the QBOTF!” argument we always do. Besides Doug Flutie and Jim Zorn, I can’t think of guys who went undrafted and made an impact in the league.

We did this with that kid from Rutgers who is no longer in the league. Let’s not kid ourselves here.

Ka-Kaaa!

by JerryNice on Jan 20, 2012 10:15 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

A few more actually

Kurt Warner
Warren Moon
Tony Romo

Flutie was drafted btw. Your point is right though, it is rare.

by bigtrain21 on Jan 21, 2012 3:55 AM PST via Android app up reply actions  

You can add Dave Krieg to the list

Good and bad he made an impact on the league.

by eohawkfan on Jan 21, 2012 9:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Odds are you are correct.... but.... just sayin'.....

Baldwin made it, yes? Tell me Portis wasn’t impressive to you, despite no training camp, in the preseason! just sayin’, …. JS/PC have clearly shown an early ability for selecting talent…. and last year was not a fair year to bring in talent that needed seasoning…. What a coop it would be… Yes, you have the odds, but you cannot say for sure he isn’t our possible QBOTF….

by IBGoofy on Jan 21, 2012 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll guarantee he isn't our QBOTF.

Taking a stud WR in UDFA is easier to do b/c the position isn’t as vital to the success of a franchise. It’s still unbelievable Baldwin did what he did, but QB is an entirely different story. Portis is a string-bean, who has yet to even play second stringers. It would be close to a miracle if he became our long-term answer.

Wasn’t Jose Cruz undrafted a couple years back too?

Ka-Kaaa!

by JerryNice on Jan 22, 2012 12:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Also purte numbers

A team will bring in 3 MAYBE 4 QBs
They usually bring in 10-12 WR to camp. Just a greater chance for a WR, and add in the fact that QB is a really hard position to play, well, the odds go down. not impossible, but not likely.

Portis has the tools to be a very good Seneca Wallace type back up.

by Oliudyen on Jan 23, 2012 12:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Excellent article.

Really well put.

Sherman has forced his way into the #1 CB position if you ask me. Calm the ego, and you have a special player.

For me, I think Baldwin is something near impossible that we landed. UDFA who not only made the team (which us tough enough), but beat some of the top cb’s in the league, and became our leading receiver along the way (no big deal). That is UNBELIEVABLE. I can’t help but be in awe of this kid, and have an incredible feeling about him and his future with our squad.

As far as 2012 is concerned, we are in a perfect position to make a play for RG3. Our core, team dynamic, and building blocks are all there. Another great FA period and we are going to go off. Get they perfect QB for our offense and stop fucking around. Who’s with me?

Ka-Kaaa!

by JerryNice on Jan 20, 2012 10:11 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

love the write up! Dick Sure looks like a beast!!!

as far as the draft i think trading down wouldbe best with how the picks seem like they’ll go right now. We could secure more picks next year and get a good player later.

Defensive ends this free agent period look good. Mario Williams i heard will be allowed to test the market, Calias Campbell (who has the added benefit of removing a lot of talent from a division rival), Cliff Avril who I like a lot.

all three of them instantly upgrade pass ruch, obviously williams would be amazing and is more a dream but still…. he’s only 27.

Ahmad Brooks of the 9ers or Erin Henderson would be good linebackers to consider.

offensive linemen I like (I’m not sold on gallery, he’s aging poorly) obvious Carl Nicks but goodluck with that, Jeremy zuttah the versatile lineman from Tampa, Samson satele the center from oakland.and Ben Grubbs from baltimore. All offer more (i think) thank gallery does or Moffit does right now. I still like unger though, heplays tough and mean.

Brandon Carr andTracy Porter are free agent corners I like.

Lastly, Again, Stephen Tullochis a f/a… I still would love him as a seahawk, or Dan Connor whoI’ve liked since he was a rookie.

Ok, well those are the guys im watching this offseason’s free agency. I’m obviously not saying all of them, but one or two would be nice additions to go with whoever we draft. I’m excited for next season because we’re not thatfar off… afull training camp and a pass rush away maybe?

by PA hawkfan on Jan 20, 2012 10:42 PM PST reply actions  

We got Sherman in the 5th round

Signed Baldwin as an undrafted free agent.
Signed Browner from Canada when nobody else would give him a shot.
Drafted Wright in the 4th round when a lot of people (if I remember correctly) thought it was a reach.

Man oh man. My faith in Pete and John cannot be higher right now. I really really like where his team is going. Go Hawks!

by SeahawksPhan on Jan 20, 2012 10:43 PM PST reply actions  

isn't 4th round about normal draft position for an average LB?

I thought they were drafted as essentially fungible, unless you are talking guys like Miller, Willis, Lewis…

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Jan 21, 2012 5:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Its fun to go back to the arguments many of us made a year ago in May about our picks

Add in what the pros were saying and I am further convinced that PC/JS are geniuses and going into this draft my mantra will simply be:
BELIEVE
Under Ruskell and other regimes, I almost dreaded the draft because I knew that they were going to screw it up, but now…..
BELIEVE

they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!

by stufr on Jan 21, 2012 4:30 AM PST reply actions  

Hey, sorry to hijack the comments...

But over on the NFL Films blog they are doing a "Holiday Tournament of Touchdown Shots" bracket and over the next couple of days it is Marshawn Lynch’s BeastQuake vs. Ed Reed’s 108 yard TD return. It would be cool to see the support of BeastMode and have him beat out the Reed TD. Here’s the link to the current poll:

Marshawn Lynch vs. Ed Reed

Go vote!

by biju on Jan 21, 2012 4:21 PM PST reply actions  

Durham

I cringed when I read Durham could be #2 WR. I really do like him dont get me wrong, I don’t like him as #2… not even a little bit. I do like him for a possesion receiver though. A WR that has great route running (and Durham does), he is perfectly set for that role. Ingram comes to mind who was great in 3rd down reception. Baldwin is excellent slot receiver on rotation with Tate, and Tate being #4. Rice is injury prone as we all know but is our #1 no question… Williams and Obo need to be traded/released… and we need to draft a solid lagit #2 and this draft is deep enough at WR to get a very good one in 2nd round.

We have limited picks I know, but even a run first team needs WRs that fit their talent. The intangables also gets overlooked, Durham is invisible in run blocking. I think Nick Toon would fit perfectly at #2, good size, runs good routes, great blocker, and of course yes he has good hands. He’s a 2nd rounder and could be there for us, the other WR I really like is in early 2nd round is Marvin McNutt… I like his skills better, but think he could sneak into the end of the first round or be gone by our pick in 2nd round.

by tarryhawk on Jan 22, 2012 6:16 PM PST reply actions  

Im not sure i understand the arguement

Durham isnt a good second because he runs his routes too well?

Durham has decent speed 4.4 range. He is 6’6" and has very good routes.
Faster than Obo and Mike, Check
Biger than Obo and Mike, Check
Runs better routes than Obo and Mike, Check.
Creates separation TBD.

Not saying hs should be #2 next year but any number of our recievers could have a good enough camp to solidify that spot.
Despite Baldwin and Tate both playing well in the slot, it shouldnt discredit them from earning the #2 spot.
Lockette, Durham , BMW, Obo all have better body structures for what pete wants, but that alone wont win the spot.

by Oliudyen on Jan 23, 2012 12:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

SEA!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Avatar_small
The OT Thread---12thrs, Assemble!
Small
Just How Much Do Close Games Matter Anyway?
Small
Help Me Understand How Irvin Will be Used
Turbin_game_uni_small
Hand Size and Quarterbacks
Einstein_www-txt2pic-com_small
On Pete Carroll and Previous QB Competitions

Recent FanPosts

Horsey_small
Results from the 2012 Armchair GM Championship
Tasb_logo_small
Consider it Spun: The 5 Worst Moves of Carroll and Schneider Era in Seattle
Small
Plaxico Burress: viable option, or over the hill?
Small
Portland Seahawks Fans: Where You Be?
Small
Should Seattle Go After Kellen Winslow?
Small
Football where the head is sacred

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managing Editor/Lead Writer

Screen_shot_2012-05-04_at_10 Danny Kelly

Staff Writers/Editors

Screen_shot_2011-01-05_at_9 Scruffy Lefty

Small BrianL

Avatar_small Benne

Olympiabeer_small Tyler Jorgensen

Madhatter_small Thomas Beekers

Profilepic_small DJ C-Raig

897267_o_small Kenneth Arthur

Sbn_pic_small Jacson Bevens

Photo__1__small Charlie Todaro

Staff Writers

Small Joshua Kasparek

Photo_small Matt Erickson

Davis_small Davis Hsu

Profile2_small Rob Staton

208114_505637750968_23709013_30160241_9483_n_small Scott Enyeart

Elephant_pink_clothes_small Chris Sully

Seattle_seahawk_white_1600_reasonably_small_small Derek Stephens

Ace_small Ben Harbaugh

Bu_fb_2_small Daniel Hill

Rob_small Rob Davies