Musings on NFL Draft Season 2012 and the Seahawks
Senior Bowl Week! The Draft Season is in full swing. I wanted to share some thoughts I have been swirling and some texts that have gone back and forth between myself, Danny @fieldgulls, and Scott @scottenyeart. This isn't meant to be comprehensive research but more like a discussion starter or draft primer. If you are on Twitter and you follow me you probably have a good idea of how I operate, but just as a precursor you shouldn't take any of the following as 'player scouting', it's exactly what the title states - musing. I like to write stream-of-consciousness at times and that's how this piece turned out.
First off, Seahawks fans should go listen to the season ending presser with Pete Carroll. He touches on the areas of the roster he wants to improve, and provides part of the basis for the following thoughts.
Shooting from the Hip: Right now the Seahawks hold six picks, I believe. They gained a pick from trading Aaron Curry and are missing two picks from the Marshawn Lynch trade and the Tyler Polumbus trade. This may be incorrect, but I am working under that thought. Schneider has drafted nine times in 2010 and nine times in 2011. I believe Pete and John will draft eight times in 2012, which means they will likely trade down twice.
The final draft may look something like this:
1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 7
or
2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7
Who knows right? Many things could happen, but you catch my drift. Here is how I think the draft will play out, position-wise: DE, QB, LB, WR, DT, CB/S, RB, LB
I believe Scott thinks it will look more like: DE, QB, LB, DT, RB, S, WR, LB
Again, who knows (?!), but one thing we agree on is that we both (independently) think the Seahawks will draft five defensive players and three offensive players. The value of those players is skewed even more to the defensive side of the ball in terms of pick value in Scott's scenario. Will the Seahawks draft in this order in late April? Well, probably not! But, this is still a fun exercise and is meant to be a discussion starter. It's still early, obviously. Let's go down the list:
Defensive End - I think the Seahawks will re-sign Red Bryant, so this player can be an Aldon Smith rookie year role type player. Aldon was a situational pass rusher for most of the year. If Red takes 30 snaps, this player may only take 30 snaps on the left side on obvious passing downs, and perhaps spell Chris Clemons on the right side for 10-15 snaps a game. Or perhaps, this is a bigger DE (280-290 lb) that can also rush inside, but I think it is likely more a speed edge rusher. Maybe it's Quinton Coples, but I think more likely a "Nick Perry" type. I also think this player may not be taken at 11/12, but that the Seahawks may slide down and take this pick at 19-20 in round 1 (or maybe perhaps in round 2).
Quarterback - With the top "Grade A" quarterbacks gone by the 2nd round, we are now firmly in the "Grade B" land. I am not going to predict who it is - but I am going to throw out the obvious names: Brock Osweiler, Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins, Brandon Weeden. It may even be a Kellen Moore or a Russell Wilson. The Seahawks were chatting with Cousins, Moore and Wilson on Day 1 of Senior Bowl Week for what it's worth (probably not much).
Linebacker - When you study contract size and length - the Seahawks were very lukewarm to David Hawthorne in that they gave him a one year extension for a shade under $2M. They wanted him to prove himself and perhaps see what turns up in the 2011 and 2012 draft. Now, by the time the 2012 draft rolls around, we should know what the Seahawks plan to do with Hawthorne. Personally, I think they sign him to a modest contract. I would not be shocked if they did not. Leroy Hill played beyond expectations in my opinion and the Seahawks gave him about $1M on a one year deal. I do not think they re-sign him to a major contract.
Pete Carroll talked about improving the speed at linebacker. Now, Hill still looked faster than Hawthorne (I know he had a bum knee) in 2011 to my untrained eye, but Leroy is an older player (by Seahawks standards) that the Seahawks did not value as highly in 2010 when they slashed his giant contract.
The Seahawks have been amassing/signing a large number of linebackers - many will not make the 2012 53 man roster - but perhaps one or two can build depth. I have a hard time believing any of these can be a starter in 2012. I am talking about: Tressor Baptiste, Adrian Moten, Allen Bradford, and Mike Morgan. You also have to take into account Malcolm Smith, who is signed for the next three years, as well as free agents like Matt McCoy, David Vobora and Heath Farwell.
Who will this "starter caliber/third draft pick" linebacker be? Pete wants speed, but another thing that he wants, from studying his moves, is length. I think the linebacker will be able to play two positions and be about 6-2 or 6-3. He has to do a little of everything - be strong in coverage, strong against the run, and blitz occasionally. Maybe it's some lightning fast 6'0, undersized playmaker, but in the end I lean toward bigger. Think - "A Poor Man's Brian Cushing" (h/t to Scott Enyeart for that).
The Rest-
I will lump the rest of the draft together, as the board is probably less predictable to a certain extent as you charge into Round 4 territory. Perhaps you are moving more toward the "Best player available" side of the spectrum.
On a Wide Receiver - Pete Carroll talked about finding a "touchdown maker" if possible. I think if there is a Wide Receiver that can play outside (likely 6 foot and taller) you have to think about it.
Defensive Tackle? This is the Anthony Hargrove role - not a starting role. Think nickel interior pass rush - a player that weighs more in the 280-295 pound range.
You can never have enough corners and Atari Bigby may be gone, so as we delve into Round 5 I can see a defensive back added to the mix.
Running back? I believe the Seahawks re-sign Lynch, but Forsett will be free to walk - and they need someone to share the load. I think the RB will be 215-220 pounds, and I think this will be a deep running back draft.
In Round 7, another linebacker? Maybe. At this point, to project what the Seahawks draft in the 7th round is almost comical - throw a dart - but ya know, I'm just having fun here.
Lastly, free agency will tip a bit of the Seahawks hand. I can see the Seahawks making a play on the defensive line in free agency as they do have a chunk of money "reserved" on the defensive side of the ball if you believe in the 50-50 theory (spending equal parts of your salary cap on offense and defense).
What do you think?
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Free agent MLB Curtis Lofton.
The Falcons will probably franchise him or sign him to a big contract, but this guy gives me 2005Lofa-Goosebumps.
follow @casetines
by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 25, 2012 8:28 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I really cannot see us drafting a QB i just dont see it in the cards
but apart from that i believe ur draft estimation is about right. Id just put LB/DT/RB in that qb spot.
GO hawks!
by Dominic Matlock on Jan 25, 2012 8:35 AM PST reply actions
Unless things unfold well in free agency, I'm not expecting a QB in round 1.
But I’m almost positive they will at least pick one up in later rounds. There is plenty of QB talent in this draft that doesn’t warrant a round 1 pick. Someone like Cousins or Osweiler sitting for a year behind Jackson is fine with me.
mario
could you see mario williams getting some talk in the seahawks free agency talk?
Bright future = Seahawks
When PC talked about a "touchdown maker"
I got the feeling he was talking about early rounds. I’d kind of hate to see us draft another Durham prototype in the middle rounds instead of just seeing how Kris develops. I think we’ll end up taking LB (someone that can rush from Will), DT/DE, QB, RB, and from there wherever the best value is
Touchdown maker WR
I took PC’s comments to mean a WR that can take the top off a defense with a great deal of speed. That would characterize Lockette to me, in a Desean Jackson type role. I can see our team moving on from BMW and going with Rice and Tate as starters, Baldwin in the slot and Lockette as a burner. Durham could theoretically fill the BMW role, but I think he needs another year. I am really curious how our WR situation plays out. I think either BMW or Obomanu are on their way out as is Butler.
It will be interesting to see if the WR group could be made as effective as the CB were with quality depth. It seems we have depth one level deep in WR land, but I am not sure it oges deeper than that.
Good article
But heres the thing, that I’ve said many times in the last week-1)you can throw money at a free agent all you want, that may not be enough to keep him, and 2)You pretty much have to wait until FA is over until you start looking at the draft.
Heres the facts, dont have to like em-
Marshawn Lynch may leave. I dont think the Hawks WANT that(I know I dont), but its certainly POSSIBLE.
Red Bryant may leave.
Leroy Hill may leave.
Imagine if we lost all three through some horrendous act of a merciless, tyrant-like God that hates the Seahawks(certainly POSSIBLE!)-
Where does that change your draft needs? I think RB tops the list, than the D-line, than LB. Quarterback? Forget about that. You might get a project QB in the 3rd round or later.
The Hawks need to draft/acquire a RB anyway to supplimant Lynch, since washington has had mediocre at best success and Forsett has had almost none. What about this Allan Bradford guy?
Good points -
FA likely changes everything and it’s much different than last season. Also, according to his twitter account, Bradford has switched full time to linebacker.
by Danny Kelly on Jan 25, 2012 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Hill
Is good as gone and i don’t think losing him is going to hurt us. But i agree on Bryant and Lynch, losing those two would suck.
by Southhill Seahawk on Jan 25, 2012 10:07 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I find it unlikely
Red Bryant acts like he is the leader of the team and Marshawn Lynch has such a cult following and has finally found his groove, i find it highly unlikely they both walk.
Do or do not, there is no try-Yoda
by ironheart777 on Jan 25, 2012 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
Someone please correct me
if I’m wrong but I thought I read that Allen Bradford was going to be a LB instead of a RB.
by darthmaul5456 on Jan 25, 2012 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
Correct, we're converting him
Though I for one hope he’ll be a two-way player, because two-way players are awesome.
Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 25, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Whatever happened to that one dude from Houston?
Tonga… I think. Call him up.
by Danny Kelly on Jan 25, 2012 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Matangi. I think he was with Dallas for a bit
Don’t think he played a snap this season. Probably out of the league.
I liked the idea of Tonga better than the actual player.
Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 25, 2012 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
This front office will take risks (at least perceived risk from outsiders)
I won’t be suprised to see us make moves with our picks to acquire a specific player from another team. They will have draft day conversations w/ many teams for other players, if their board warrants it.
So hard to predict what they will or won’t do, too many variables and I love that.
Excited
About this coming draft. Still remember everyone ragging on how bad the Seahawks draft. All the experts giving us the worse grade. They’ll probably been more careful about dogging us this year
by Southhill Seahawk on Jan 25, 2012 10:10 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions
Stupid Kiper backpedaled on his grade a few weeks ago
had us at a D or something right after the draft, then changed it to a B+ after the season.
Drafts can't really be judged until years in, as Kiper proves with his stupid grades and re-grades
But right now, it looks like we have five long-term starters (including a slot receiver as a “starter” of sorts in the modern-day NFL) from that single draft. That’s quite good, even if the group does lack any obvious elite talent.
Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 25, 2012 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Given his history, how is Sherman not elite?
He’s played the position for only 2 years in college, and only started a half season in the NFL with no offseason. He had to be a top 3 rookie cover DB this year – how is that not elite talent?
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
I think "elite talent" has as much to do with reputation as on-the-field production
Is James Harrison an elite pass-rusher? Was he elite when he went undrafted? Or played in NFL Europe? Or got cut by the Ravens? Or did his 5 Pro Bowl selections and 4 All Pro selections make him elite?
If Sherman had a better draft pedigree people wouldn’t be so hesitant to call him elite.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jan 26, 2012 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
He could be, but he's not "obvious" elite talent
Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 26, 2012 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind seeing the hawks take Terrence Ganaway somewhere in the mid-late rounds
To be fair, I only saw 2 of his games. I think he could develop into an ox (something like Mike Turner or a slightly slower Steven Jackson) He’s lacking in burst speed, but he’s a horse. Runs like Beast mode, keeps legs churning, and gets 5 yards when he should have got 2 or 3.
No O-line help?
I know there was a lot of injuries with the line this past season but their play wasn’t the best. Advanced NFL stats shows the Seahawks at 28th for Oline and that the hawks gave up the most ‘QB hits’. Some of this could be Jackson holding onto the ball too long. Then again SF/NYG are ranked in about the same positions so maybe it isn’t a huge deal.
I may be niave, and I often am
I do think the depth at o-line is quite good now. I see us as having a solid groupd of linemen who will only get better. Granted, we had rough games. With perspective, we had 2 rookies learning the positions with no offseason and then a lot of injuries. Still, we saw there is potential very high ceiling for this group.
Most will agree, TJack needs to get rid of the ball more too.
It looks worse over the entire season than it did near the end
Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 25, 2012 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Curious about the O-line as well
I can’t remember the source, but a few weeks back I read that this draft was deep in good offensive lineman. Nobody seems to mention it as we addressed the need last year. But, I would not mind seeing us getting another stout tackle in rounds 2 or 3 if worth the pick. Drafting value here, if that is where the talent is seems like a smart, if not sexy move.
I know we all have our hearts set on a DE in Round 1...
but what about trading back and picking up DeCastro or Martin? I feel like having 1 more lineman than we need would be great, especially if we could get as good a guard as DeCastro. I know defense needs the help, but we could have the most feared rushing attack in the NFL for about 10 years if we scooped one more great lineman.
And yes, I am a Stanford Homer. Deal with it.
by Crominator56 on Jan 30, 2012 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
One thing I think this FO does not want to do is waste draft stock
That’s why they were looking to trade down the Carpenter pick. They have their own draft list that pundits will put in as “reaches”, but won’t reach for guys they like, if you get what I’m getting at…
So the thing is…what DL pick is worth the 11th/12th? It’s a high-priority need, but is this a draft where you can address this need? Almost seems like more of a free agency thing to me. Our front 7 needs a huge overhaul to get to where it should be, though.
Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii
by Thomas Beekers on Jan 25, 2012 11:19 AM PST reply actions
That is part of why I am expecting a trade down and picking up a LB...
Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"
As far as the front 7 goes...
It almost seems to me that we’d be better off switching to a base 3-4, although I’m not sure how Mebane would hold up as the NT and whether Clemons could make the switch at this point in his career (although I seem to recall him falling back into coverage semi-regularly- 1 per-game to 1 every other game)
Bryant though, seems like he’d make a pretty ideal 3-4 DE, we’d have to find a similar body for the other side, and we’d DEFINITELY have to add 2 or 3 LBs in the draft/free agency. OLB though, that might be a problem.
Long suffering, committed Seahawks/Packers fan
Lukewarm
Seahawks are very disciplined financially and they shed bad contracts early and often. This allows they more cap room to go after young difference makers. I don’t think you can look at the dollar amount of any player and say they were lukewarm, it is more of an indication of the market value. However, in David Hawthorne’s case, I’m sure they’d like to add youth and speed to the LB corps so it will be interesting to see who they can bring in to compete with Hawthorne this year. But for what he has brought to the defense and meant to the team the last few years, Hawthorne has been a real asset.
by Garon Galloway on Jan 25, 2012 12:18 PM PST reply actions
FA should clear up the picture of how PC/JS will look to upgrade the front seven.
Mario Williams is obviously the biggest prize available. With the Houston’s cap issue, I think it is quite probable that he will not be resigned there. The question becomes how much the Seahawks are willing to spend in what should be a VERY competitive bidding war.
I’ll take a pass on Cliff Avril. I think his production has been inflated to playing with an ultra-talented position group. This should drive up his sticker price well past his on field value to Seattle’s defense.
If a move out of pick 11/12 doesn’t happen, I think we will see Coples or Brockers selected here. I do like Zach Brown, but I don’t know if he provides a significant enough upgrade over Malcom Smith to warrant this high of a pick.
Wishful thinking, but I would love to see Nick Perry or David Wilson fall to us in the second. After that, BPA followed by multiple Super Bowl parades in Downtown Seattle.
...and if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump it's ass when it hopped.
PICK
I think if we stay put in the first round Melvin Ingram will be a player that I could see us drafting, he is a freak athlete (big 6’2 275, strong, fast and with great balance) that could play OLB and move inside on passing situations. I think he fits the mold of those players with “special talents” that PS and JS like.
For the first offseason in LITERALLY FOREVER
I feel like the Seahawks could successfully land any marquee free agent out there, without ruining the team’s finances. It’s an exciting feeling.
Lets hope they pick one
that doesn’t have a long history of injuries.
Picks
You heard it here first folks. I am willing to bet if no “Peyton Manning” free agency move happens for the hawks, Brandon Weeden will be SERIOUSLY looked at. IF the peyton prophecy comes true, Weeden wont be considered but instead these are my picks for manning to teach, Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins, and the most likely scenario (in my opinion) if manning comes in to teach a young kid….BJ COLEMAN. I see Coleman as a 4-5th rounder and rising and a perfect disciple to a Manning run Hawks. Keep an eye on Weeden, Foles, Cousins and Coleman for the draft. 80% sure the hawks draft ONE of them.
You can scratch Foles from your list.
He’s like Ryan Mallet without the arm or accuracy.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
FA market for Mario Williams will be too competitive
Like to see him in Seattle, but if he leaves Houston it will be to somewhere that is more prepared to break the bank to get a player than our FO.
On that basis, specialist pass rusher looks likely to come early – the idea of trading down out of round 1 sounds just the sort of thing JS/PC would do.
I think our FO has positioned itself to bring in Mario Williams, or a similar player
Miller and Rice were brought in on contracts that only guarantee salary through the end of the 2012 season. Gallery was only guaranteed through the recently ended season (and could be a reason we draft DeCastro if he is still around at 11/12). Mebane has a more interesting contract compared to his outsider peers, 5 years at bascially 5 million per year, but guaranteed for 3 years instead of 2 (but still a contract that is cap sustainable for it’s duration). Bryant should see a contract just shy of Mebane (maybe 4 years at 16-18 million with 10 guaranteed?), which would basically consume the cap space that Trufant is earning (assuming he is dropped, or renogoatiated), leaving us around $20m. Assuming Whitehurst and Brock are not back, their salaries will cover the expensive part of the draft class (~5 million/year for our first 3 picks). I would guess that even if they sign back both Hill and Hawthorne that Hawthorne’s decrease in salary and Hill’s increase will bascially be a push. So after (realistically?) dealing with our own free agents, we are still $20n under the cap.
If Forsett and BMW are shown the door, we might have in the neighborhood of $24m with which to sign Lynch (13 million guaranteed over the first two years seems about right for this FO, with the total number and duration not really important if they can cut bait after 2 years – which appears to be the modus operandi) and Mario Williams. The team could spend $51 million guaranteed over the first 3 years, but I would guess Williams will get a contract a bit shy of Peppers (40.5m guaranteed over the first three years), maybe in the $32-36 million guaranteed over 3 years. That would still leave 4 million in salary cap for other FA signings, which could go up by 6 million if Gallery is released and open up to another 16 million after next season if Rice and/or Miller are let go.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
MLB Hawthorne
According to Bleacher Report, ESPN, and RotoWorld; ESPN NFC WEST Mike Sando reports that Seahawks not looking to resign Hawthorne…..This would be stupid considering how thin we are at the LB position and that He tallied over 110 takles this season. Yes we do need to get faster at LB position but you Can train/ condition that in the Offseason . Re-Sign Hawthorne and negotiate with Leroy Hill
GO HAWKS!!


































