Heath Evans talks Holmgren and Coples (and Belichick)
One of the most interesting statements, to me, was that the Hawks teams in the '04-'05 seasons were the most talented teams he says he's ever been on. Better than the '06-'08 Patriots and the '09-'10 Saints.
Also interesting is his take on Coples and his effort. Speaks to the concerns a number have expressed re the big DE out of UNC.
4 months ago
Matt Erickson
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Holmgren reamed him in the shower?
I’ll file that under “Stuff I’d rather not know.”
by Nshima on Jan 31, 2012 8:39 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Remind me...
but I never heard of that kind of stuff coming from the ’04, ’05 Hawks teams
Well if Holmgren pampered his stars, and those teams were really good, they'd have been full of stars
So none of them would have been complaining!
by Matt Erickson on Jan 31, 2012 9:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That was very tongue-in-cheek
by Matt Erickson on Jan 31, 2012 9:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Most interesting article I ever read about Holmgren. Thanks for the link.
I was 50/50 about Holmgren returning to Seattle.
So glad he didn’t. I’m so glad, I’m glad, I’m glad, I’m glad.
by broadbill birdwatcher on Jan 31, 2012 9:11 PM PST reply actions
I don't buy the hype.
Holmgren preferred Mack Strong, obviously, and Heath Evans is upset because he was never able to take snaps away from an aging, breaking-down UDFA.
Those 04-05 Seahawks teams were filled with veteran leaders and others who made their careers on being “stand-up” guys, save for a couple boneheads (Jerramy Stevens, mostly) and a prima-donna, ultra-religious halfback in Shaun Alexander. I don’t see the “dirtbagginess” racism Evans seems to be referring to. Those Holmgren teams were also some of the least penalized teams; even penalty machine Locklear was considered starting quality.
I will give it to Evans that Holmgren didn’t put any effort into the defensive team, so perhaps he’s mostly referring to that side of the ball.
Mack Strong was in his relative prime in '04 and '05
by Carl Shinyama on Jan 31, 2012 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
I do not disagree.
I’m just not sure the team realized he was the best blocking back in the league. I do, however, recall the team unsuccessfully drafting or trying to replace him on a yearly basis.
I think it was primarly because Shaun was mainly one-dimensional and Mack was just a bullying fullback.
Which really sucks for the West Coast Offense when 35% of your playbook is based on RB passes/screens. They needed someone else, and since was quite successful at running the ball, don’t want to replace him anyway. Hence why Strong was trying to be replaced.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
That's two
Everyone’s heard how Holmgren treated star players. He’s even stated that he’d treat veterans differently than rookies, for one simple reason: They’d earned it. The only other player I ever heard complain about the clubhouse was Chike Okaefor, and that was after he left.
bfl001, I don’t see Alexander as a prima donna. He’s started multiple charity foundations, he helps underprivileged kids, and when he made the “stabbed in the back” comment, he immediately apologized. I could see guys similar to Stevens (most notable Koren Robinson) getting away with too much, and that being a huge distraction. I agree whole heartedly about the penalties, if a team was as undisciplined as Evans states, then they’d act like the raiders.
Good point about Alexander.
My initial reaction was in response to the holdouts, the “stabbed in the back” comment as well as his propensity to appear lackadaisical. In super-hindsight, he probably wasn’t a “me-first” player.
What I do find funny, however is both Evans and Okeafor left Seattle in 2004. The next season ended up with the Seahawks in the Superbowl, so I don’t know if it’s just sour grapes.
I dunno
Okeafor left the Seahawks for the Cardinals, and they won the division in ’08 and ’09, and went to the Super Bowl.
Evans went to the Patriots for four years, and they won the division three out of those four, and won a Super Bowl. Then he went to the Saints and won the Super Bowl in ’09 and went to the playoffs again in ’10 <—- yay :)
Given the above, I think sour grapes would be a bit of an odd sentiment.
by Matt Erickson on Feb 1, 2012 12:08 AM PST up reply actions
Look at what he's got to compare.
Super bowl winning teams vs. a talented one that came up short. I’d bet his opinion would be different had he got stuck with the Bengals.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
You're right.
He just missed minicamps.
I was a heavy-drinking college student back then.
He was classy.
But the stabbed in the back comment seemed like a clear glimpse into a man with more pride and/or who was more self-absorbed than he was trying to let on.
I don't know.
Maybe it was just one of those outbursts that happen once in a lifetime.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Yeah, I think Shaun deserves the benefit of the doubt on this score.
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."
At the risk of dredging up the inevitable war...
…enh, maybe not.
Yeah, it's not the first we've heard of it. I certainly don't doubt the existence of this double standard.
Evans’ take on it feels rather revisionist, though. The contrast he makes between Belichick & Holmgren look like a classic case of narrative bias or structural bias. As time goes on we often reframe how things unfolded more & more to fit a more compelling narrative, until we remember it that way. I am sure there is some contrast, and I’m sure Evans’ case of leaving with resentment at a double-standard, and finding consistency in accountability with the star players, exacerbated what definitely could be a legitimate criticism and difference, into what really amounts to character indictment the way he composes his narrative here. So he’s making a name for himself now as a blunt NFLN analyst.
So the bit about the Seahawks being the most talented definitely serves to make a more compelling contrast, highlighting a tragic flaw against subtle integrity. He might genuinely believe that those Seahawks were more talented. They were not that far off, and in New England it was a transcendent passing game that set an otherwise solid playoff team apart as historical. But I’m skeptical that those Seahawks truly were mor talented and could have done something special but Holmgren’s handling of team chemistry doomed them to mediocrity. It’s just too revisionist.
Head of catering.
by jacobstevens on Feb 1, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
In regards to comparing the 3 teams or sets of teams,
people forget how much luck goes into the outcome of a season, into the difference between 13-3 and 16-0.
As for the Seahawks, they shall have stars at elbow and foot...Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion.
I just mean, I believe that the Seahawks could've had more talent but had fewer wins.
As for the Seahawks, they shall have stars at elbow and foot...Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion.
This Reminds Me Of
One of my first games I went to in 2004, against the Bills at home, where they got straight up punked.
While walking out of the stadium, there was an older man that I spoke with that I honestly can’t remember his name, but seemed like someone with ties to the organization. He wore a team badge, but it was partially obscured. My guess is maybe a scout. I asked out loud “What is wrong with this team? We are so much more talented than the Bills! They just beat us at home!”
His reply was “Well there may be more going on behind the curtain than you think. A lot of stuff happens behind the scenes.” He refused to elaborate. This comment makes much more sense in hindsight. Wish I knew who this guy was though to put more context into the statement.
Live work and breathe like an optimist.
Heath Evans just Bitter
Look in my opinion, Evans you’re just bitter because you wanted to see the field more. Take it like a man. Mack Strong was clearly the better FB. And when you did have your time to shine I consistently saw you drop the ball almost every time it was thrown to you. About the whole thing about one of the worse locker rooms I have a hard time believing that. You had Dilfer, Strong, Randle, C. Brown, Hasselbeck, Wistrom, Jones, Hutchinson, Tobek, C. Gray etc. Are you kidding me? Come one those are some of the most classiest guys and I don’t think they would ever let the lockerroom get out of control.
On a side note about C. Okaefor. He was average at best and asking for way too much money. I don’t know how he was in the locker room but he has to be one of the most dirtest players I’ve ever seen. I will always remember this play vs the Rams. M. Faulk had the ball and Okaefor came up for the tackle and while he was tackling him he clearly grabbed onto Faulks ankle twisting and turning it and you see Faulk freak out after the play.































