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2012 NFL Draft: Zach Brown

Courtney Upshaw and Melvin Ingram are excellent options for the Seahawks picking just north of ten. Pass rush is our greatest need and both can get after the quarterback, along with varying other talents between them. However, neither are pure speed rushers, neither are a clean fit in our 4-3, and neither offer a major upgrade to team speed on defense - a point of emphasis for Pete Carroll this off-season.

Zach Brown is 6-2 235 and runs like the wind. He is a clean fit for a 4-3 and might enter his rookie season as the fastest linebacker in the entire NFL. But forget about him being a pure pass rusher, Brown isn't a pass rusher. Period. That sounds conclusive but it isn't. Brown is not a pass rusher but could still add a much needed component to our pass rush.

I see three essential components to a successful pass rushing team; pressure, finishing, and pursuit. Despite being possibly the most difficult to achieve, I think the Seahawks were surprisingly adept at creating pressure last season. Red Bryant, Brandon Mebane, and Alan Branch consistently collapse the pocket and disrupt passing lanes, Chris Clemons forces the QB to evade him, and we saw a dramatic improvement in coverage. The breakdown has been with the other two pass rush components.

The Seahawks ended the season with 33 sacks. Finishing is a big issue. This is where pass rushers are so valuable and the Seahawk's only had one last season in Chris Clemons. Here I discussed how Dexter Davis and another rotational LEO could push Raheem Brock's role back to the production level we saw from him in 2010. Unfortunately, with this current scheme, finishing will likely continue being problematic until we can find a dynamic 3-tech.

Pursuit was badly lacking in 2011. Once opposing QBs escaped Clemons, they were commonly able to break the pocket and extend the play. Sometimes Clemons would recover or Wright would read it but more often than not we would see Branch or Hawthorne or Hill slow in chase as the QB got off a clean throw.

Another aspect of pursuit is defending the dreaded dump-off pass. Every offense will checkdown to the RB, no matter the scheme, and most will run a screen or two every game. Defending the dump-off should be a given but the Seahawks struggled badly with it last year allowing a league's worst 35.0 DVOA against receiving RBs.

Better pursuit against the run is also of paramount importance this off-season. Last year offenses found success attacking off tackle and the Seahawks had no answer. Pursuit goes hand in hand with Pete wanting more team speed on defense. Pursuit is where Zach Brown thrives.

Star-divide


Zach Brown has elite range and closing speed. In the game above, we can see him pressure the QB outside the pocket at :05, 3:05, and 4:06. He's also a capable blitzer and shows a particular acuity for anticipating the snap count. Brown won't pile up the sacks but he could easily manage 4-6.

In Wednesday's podcast, we learned Derek is down on Zach Brown, citing poor instincts and tackling. I really respect Derek's opinion and can absolutely see where he's coming from, especially concerning Brown's tackling. In my opinion it's not a terminal flaw though. He wraps up well at times but far too often leads with his shoulder. Could this be some sense of UNC defense bravado? In any case, this is a deficiency which can improve with coaching. What I look for most concerning tackling is an ability to breakdown, which he demonstrates on the play starting at 3:21 above.

Derek compared him to Aaron Curry but I don't see it. Curry's failure was about more than poor instincts. His slow reaction time and weak anticipation was compounded by a general over aggressiveness and lack of lateral agility. Brown doesn't anticipate the way you'd expect a speed linebacker to but it seems more like a conservative approach than an inability to read the play or slow reaction time - a stark contrast to Curry's berserker rage approach. Brown shades into indecision but it still doesn't hurt him much given his athleticism.

Brown's lateral agility advantage over Curry goes without saying. He moves with a smoothness and can quickly change direction. Brown is very comfortable in coverage and his movement skills play a big part in that. I didn't intend this post to be a response to Derek but he provided an interesting talking point. I'm loving his and Davis' podcast series.

In 2010 our front office bromance drafted Earl Thomas with the 14th pick to play centerfield and patrol the sidelines. Thomas was undersized and there were questions about his tackling ability. Earl has become a star. Pete could have a similar vision for Zach Brown. Brown could start at WILL from day one and also looked comfortable playing MIKE at the Senior Bowl.

When considering Zach Brown's somewhat slender build, remember that we have three big defensive linemen who will eat up blocks and keep Brown in space. Thus far our front office has been conservative in the first round and a 4-3 LB would continue that trend. I feel Brown would be well worth the 11/12th pick as a cornerstone playmaking presence. Brown might bring more to our pass rush effort than many suspect and he certainly satisfies Pete's need for speed.

I don't know if I would rank Brown above Upshaw or Ingram. It's a tough call. The purpose of this post is to show why he should be in the conversation. At this point I would say Upshaw, Ingram, and Brown are the three first round prospects most likely to be wearing the Blue this coming fall.

Big thanks as usual to DraftBreakdown for the excellent scouting videos they put together. If it wasn't for their hard, unheralded and humble work, we'd be forced to watch those godawful horrible highlight videos with terrible soundtracks all day. So, thanks to Aaron Aloysius, JMPasq, JPDraftJedi, TTN2810, MARI0clp and the whole DraftBreakdown crew.

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His instincts are bad, and he’s a terrible fundamental tackler. But if you want a defense loaded with track stars, have at him. Chancellor, Wright, Sherman werent speed upgrades, but they were “plus” in the instincts category with adequate speed, so this idea that speed will be the key drafting feature is interesting. Even Earl Thomas, as fast as he is, displayed elite instincts and diagnostics coming out.
Not saying SEA won’t pick Brown, and that the speed won’t help, but I worry if they take him at 11 or 12, as there are better, more complete linebackers available with more than adequate speed, in Lavonte David and Sean Spence.

It’s possible he makes a jump in the tackling and instincts departments with good coaching, but risky in the high first.

by Derek Stephens on Feb 3, 2012 9:46 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

I see better instincts than you describe.

Indecision though definitely. It’s like he doesn’t always trust his read and relies too heavily on his speed to make up the difference – which it often does. I don’t expect it to be as easy as Pete telling him to “play fast,” but I expect he will improve.

I would much rather have an athlete like Brown starting out over conservative than over aggressive. Brown should trust his instincts more as he becomes comfortable in the system and gains some experience and coaching.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree with Ben here, he has pretty decent instincts, he just doesn't trust them fully...

yet. He often moves in the right direction, then hesitates a bit before continuing in the same direction, rather than completely being faked out on the read or over running the play. However, he looks more like a “contain and control” LB to start. One with great speed who could improve as a pass rusher, but nevertheless, not one I would take that high in the draft. If he was available in round 2 or 3, maybe, but he’s a project.

Good speed, decent instincts, needs to work on wrapping up. Very definitely not Curry, who tended to overreact and run himself out of most plays.

by BlueThruAndThru on Feb 3, 2012 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

All three of you agree that there is hesitation (vs delay) in his play

One says he has bad instincts, and the other two say he has good instincts, but is indecisive. On this tape against UL, his quickness and physical ability is mostly able to make up for his on the field errors. We alI see Brown closing with incredibly elite speed, and I have no doubt he will be one of the fastest and quickest LBs at the combine. But I also see a lot of Curry on this tape, an elite athlete going against generally poor to average competition in the relatively bad ACC. That gap of phyical domination will drop significantly in the NFL. And he is so often overshooting the QB or ball carrier – something that defined Curry. It is hard on just this tape to assess whether he is hesitant, has undeveloped awareness, or lacks the ability to develop awareness.

As we have seen with Lofa (average athlete), Hawthorne (good) and Curry (elite), elite “football awareness” more than makes up for elite speed in the absence of good awareness. And the physical talent gap between Brown and whoever you consider the “next best” LB in the draft is probably so little that a clear improvement in awareness over Brown would mean more to this team than one-tenth of a second in the 40 yard dash.

For a 11/12 pick, the upside is great, and I’d be excited to watch him develop, but he could also end up not much better than Curry. I’m not arguing for a Ruskell safe pick, but like Derek, I want a higher floor than I see with Brown.

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Feb 3, 2012 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

It's interesting.

I actually see a much higher floor with Brown than any other LB in this class besides maybe Luke Kuechly.

Upshaw and Ingram both have a hit/miss element associated with all pass rushers. If they turn out inconsistent rushing the passer then they could easily bust without a clear position to play.

Spence and David are both undersized and very aggressive. Injuries could hamp either or both of them and they’re aggressiveness leaves them out of position at times. If they’re not making big plays then they won’t be offering much.

Brown is ultra athletic yet somewhat conservative. If Brown doesn’t develop then he’ll still be a steady contributor who doesn’t compromise the defense much.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I may not know what to look for

as I’ve never seen a ton of game film before (until I began frequenting Field Gulls) but I watch the video of Brown (and prior video Kuechly as well) and I saw a couple of guys who didn’t make a whole lot of great plays. I saw a lot of glancing hits and misses on tackles and being just out of position to make the big play.

Personally if I’m going for a 1st round linebacker I want someone who has a history of rushing the passer, making tackles behind the line and is decent in coverage. If they haven’t done it in college I’m probably not going to look in their direction in the 1st round.

But like I said, I haven’t seen a ton of film before and may not know what to be keying in on.

by bobbyj0708 on Feb 3, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you hit the nail on the head.

You want to see a guy who looks like he is a completely dominating player, especially against a school like UL, if you are spending a 11/12 pick on him. You could argue about weighting degree of domination with need (we shouldn’t be picking an LT, unless the plan is to move Carp to LG), but the argument presented here is 1) we need pass rush, 2) brown has the physical tools to be a pass rusher, 3) even though he doesn’t have a proven record of great pass rush or good tackling, we should draft brown to be a pass rushing LB, because 4) if he doesn’t end up being a great pass rusher, he’ll still be a solid LB, even if he is a shoddy tackler in college against inferior competition. That’s an Al Davis way to use your 11/12th pick in the draft. If you want a pass rush, get the best pass rusher (Coples, Ingram?). If you want an elite LB, get the best LB (Upshaw ?). But don’t pick a guy who hasn’t proven he can pass rush or tackle well.

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Feb 4, 2012 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Curry looked like a dominating force in college

and he seemed to have all the tools to rush the passer. Adding Brown would be about adding a valuable piece to a defense built to smother, not about adding a dominating individual to a defense built to overwhelm.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 4, 2012 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

"Contain and control" is a good way to describe him at this point.

He does an excellent job of getting outside and forcing the RB back into the teeth of the defense.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

David is a pretty bad tackler himself.

I like him, and the price is likely much more palatable, but I don’t see him as more complete than Brown.

by Nate Dogg on Feb 3, 2012 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay...

Someone hasn’t watched Lavonte David, at all. Or doesn’t understand what good tackling is.

by Derek Stephens on Feb 3, 2012 11:21 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Yea

David is an excellent tackler.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 4, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Boy you nailed it, I'm just talking out my ass for funsies.

It looks like his draftbreakdown videos got taken down, but when I watched them I came away thinking his tackling was a pretty big weakness.

by Nate Dogg on Feb 4, 2012 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Poor Instincts?

Thats a killer for a linebacker, so I don’t see the Hawks drafting this guy. Plus he is under sized and that goes against the main philosiphy of size and youth

by steverolley on Feb 3, 2012 9:52 AM PST reply actions  

I don't like the idea of spending a 1st-round pick (and a high one at that) on a 4-3 LB

We obviously need better play at LB but the difference between a “solid” and an “elite” player at the 4-3 WLB is just not worth all that much draft capital. Even if Brown turned out to be the best 4-3 WLB in the league (and it’s not clear he won’t have the same sort of adjustment issues that Curry did), he likely wouldn’t have as much impact as an above-average pass-rusher or skill position player.

by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Feb 3, 2012 10:19 AM PST reply actions  

The best 4-3 OLB right now is who? Lance Briggs?

That’s worth 11/12 to me, especially in this draft, but I don’t know Brown’s upside is that high.

by Nate Dogg on Feb 3, 2012 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I like the idea of having a lot more speed at the LB position

But watching him you can see that he is not the best tackler and doesn’t seem to be able to make many stops one on one. If that’s happening in college i believe it will be an enormous problem in the NFL. I’d rather they pick a DE or DL in the first round and concentrate on speedy project LB’s in later rounds.

by jaredmt on Feb 3, 2012 10:25 AM PST reply actions  

Who do you suggest

would be a good DE or DL prospect? Upshaw and Ingram are tweeners that would be risky picks much like Zach Brown albeit at different positions . DT prospects are almost non existent, the exception being perhaps Michael Brockers but is he really going to fix our pass rush issues? I don’t know if there is a great fit for this team in this draft at the 11/12 spot. Seems to me they either need to trade up or down if they want to get good value.

by jusorenson on Feb 3, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd be perfectly fine with a trade in either direction

but if they sit tight I wouldn’t have any complaints if they were able to take Coples or Upshaw. I know many people are thinking Coples will drop because they don’t believe in his commitment to the game but he’s also constantly cited as the best defensive talent in the draft so that’s a chance I’m willing to take. Upshaw is a tweener your right about that, he probably fits best as an OLB on a 3-4 defense which I think we could use when pete carroll goes into his 3-4 looks and I wouldn’t be surprised if he could provide some consistent pass rush from red bryant’s side on third and longs. I’d be happy with either one of them.

by jaredmt on Feb 3, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

They're not tweeners...

Any candidate for the LEO/stand-up rush end position in Seattle might be viewed as a “tweener” because they’re a hybrid linebacker/end. At DT, the best pass-rush prospect on tape is Fletcher Cox (Mississippi State) but you could get him later.

Ingram and Upshaw are very good DE prospects.

by Derek Stephens on Feb 3, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Ben, really diggin' your pre-draft work thus far. Thanks.

I say the following acknowledging I would like to do more research on Brown…When I watched the clip-compilation of him against Missouri , I sent Danny a note saying that Brown reminded me too much of Curry because of tackling, some over-pursuit/instincts issues and he didn’t defend the intermediate sideline too well versus the pass. Yes these are snap judgements based on one highlight tape, but I found it interesting that Derek compared him to Curry and Ben/others see it differently. At this point, I agree with Derek’s final assessment in his comment above, in terms of drafting Brown in the 1st at 11/12.

by Charlie Todaro on Feb 3, 2012 11:11 AM PST reply actions  

Look...

At this point, i may be over-critical of Brown. But what else is there to go on besides his actual performance in games.

One thing people should do is avoid going to Youtube and typing in “Zach Brown Highlights”…because, well, those are highlights. Watch one of the draft breakdown videos or one of the videos titled “Zach Brown vs. _______” and watch every play.

by Derek Stephens on Feb 3, 2012 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I wasn't going for "final" as in made from here on out,

Nor was I trying to make sides. But, I happen to be currently critical of Brown as well. The draft is still far away, so who knows where I/you/anyone put him on draft day…and totally agree on the second part. In general though, thanks for providing a very informative and interesting perspective on rookie/draft stuff. I value your opinion, for sure, and look forward to more into the draft.

by Charlie Todaro on Feb 3, 2012 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed, too much analysis based on Highlights

I have watched a couple of Brown’s breakdown videos and overall I come away not all that impressed. I see far more upside with Spence out of Miami as a speedy lb. With Carrol’s schemes and Ken Norton coaching them up, I would rather take another prospect lb in the later rounds.

Upshaw is a different beast to me.

by LandofBoz on Feb 3, 2012 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

There are no highlight videos for Brown on Youtube haha.

I’ve watched him in the draftbreakdown film and all the North Carolina games on ESPN3.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see an inherent issue with instincts.

The tackling is a bigger issue for me. Coaching will help but I’m sure he’ll still fail to wrap up more often than he should. This defense needs to get faster though. With all the 3-4 talk it’s easy to forget that we still run a 4-3. 4-3 defenses need to swarm to the football and the Seahawks currently aren’t very good at that.

If we were to eventually start Brown in the middle and Malcolm Smith at the WILL then suddenly a weakness would become a huge strength. They wouldn’t offer the attitude I think a lot of people are hoping for but I’m not sure a nasty attitude is Pete’s ultimate goal on defense. I feel like the ultimate goal might be closer to creating a “smothering” defense than a “hit you in the face” defense.

Combined, Thomas, Brown, and Smith would offer an incredible amount of range from the middle of the field. The “swarm” effect would definitely come alive at that point.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Seems like we are giving up tackling ability for speed

There are more sure handed tacklers out there. Upshaw or Hightower. Both are heavier, slower, but sure tacklers with good instinces. I think Upshaw could play LB or DE and that solves the whole Tweener question.

If you really want a small, speedy LB there are others available at lower rounds. They they don’t hold up well when a defensive linemen gets to the second level and flattens them. They are better at pass protection.

by AlaskaHawk on Feb 3, 2012 11:20 AM PST reply actions  

Maybe we should be looking less at OLB's and more at MLB's

Would it be more difficult to fill the MLB spot in later rounds and leave Wright at OLB? In essence saving that first pick for a DE or something like that? Wright has the skills necessary to stay as an outside linebacker, showing he could be successful there. Maybe we should be looking in to that MLB spot if we cant resign Heater?

by RawkEmHawkEmBirdbots on Feb 3, 2012 11:49 AM PST reply actions  

I think we will resign Heater at a modest contract

or perhaps another middling MLB. Part of the reason I really like Brown is because he could potentially move inside eventually.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

If Brown does turn out to be a great speed LB wouldn't he be better on the edges

rushing the passer, dropping back in zone coverage and using his speed to close on the wide running plays and dump passes?

by jaredmt on Feb 3, 2012 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Speed is arguably more valuable in the middle

since he can more easily pursue to either sideline instead of just the one he’s playing on. Brown is not a pass rusher and probably never will be. WILL is the safer position for him to contribute right away from but long term I see MIKE playing better to his strengths.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Keep in mind Ben that KJ Wright could very well be the man who goes to the middle.

Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"

by Bobby Cink on Feb 3, 2012 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

He could.

I like him more at SAM though.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Read this site every day, decided to start posting.

I would be upset if this was our pick at 11/12, a lb better blow us away with ability to be selected here. Sure speed is great, but I do not want to base my draft off of the Al Davis method. Give me Upshaw, Coples, or BPA.

by LandofBoz on Feb 3, 2012 11:51 AM PST reply actions  

Welcome to posting! You will find you will be on the site a lot more often now...

Eternally looking forward to someone making a Seahawks song based off of Lil' Jon's "Shots" song named "Hawks!"

by Bobby Cink on Feb 3, 2012 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Glad you did.

Subject line, complete sentences, short and sweet, and a witty nick for the cherry on top.

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to talk of many things."

by shams on Feb 4, 2012 9:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Spending a high pick at LB would mean somebody will have to go. Who ?

David Hawthorne is a play-maker. Don’t you just have to hang onto guys like him ? Hill is solid but has never had an interception. Could that be in part a scheme issue ? I don’t know. I just hate to see a high pick burned on replacing guys who are playing well. I’d rather they get talent to fight in the trenches.

by Richard fg7 on Feb 3, 2012 1:12 PM PST reply actions  

I don't see us resigning Hill.

Hawthorne maybe but even he isn’t a sure thing and certainly isn’t a long term answer. Pete wants more speed on defense and Hawthorne is the biggest culprit even if Hill is the lowest hanging fruit. I suspect Hawthorne will be replaced sooner than later.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't believe Hawthorne's a long term guy for us.

That said I don’t think you can replace two of the starting linebackers during the offseason and not expect to see a regression in the defense. We need to keep hawthorne for at least one more season.

by jaredmt on Feb 3, 2012 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Have a three way scouting battle between Rob Staton, Ben Harbaugh and Derek Stephens.

Game: Chess, then football, then gladiator. 3 Minute Rounds

Liking that there are so many different perspectives in scouting reports.

Don't be an idiot. If an idiot would do that, then don't do it. Muahahahaaha back on twitter

by RagingAlot on Feb 3, 2012 1:16 PM PST reply actions  

I'm flattered

but I wouldn’t put me on the same level as Rob and Derek. Both of them have a lot more experience than me and I’ve learned a lot from reading/listening to them. I still think I’m right though haha.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Dude...

You have a respectable opinion and you’re good at communicating it. Really enjoy your stuff. We’re all guessing to a degree, so I’m certainly on no pedastal. We just see different things on game footage. All good. Love the discussion

by Derek Stephens on Feb 3, 2012 11:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

As long as one is a QB

and not Tannehill, I’ll be fine with that

I Bleed Blue and Green

ME...Tweeting Stuff!

by DSAhawker on Feb 3, 2012 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Unless it's like...

a 3rd rounder or used with an extra pick we get for trading back or something like that, then that’s fine

Just no 1st rounder on Tannehill, keep seeing him sneak up all those dang mock drafts out there

I Bleed Blue and Green

ME...Tweeting Stuff!

by DSAhawker on Feb 3, 2012 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

No need to use up 4 picks for QB

When we can get Dontari Poe as a conversion project. He’s hard to tackle and will bring 350 pounds of swagger to our backfield. :-)

by AlaskaHawk on Feb 3, 2012 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

As long as one of them is DeCastro...

ONLY IN SEATTLE:
By swaggering could I never thrive,
For the rain, it raineth every day.

by Hawksince77 on Feb 3, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I will be really disappointed if Brown is taken at 11/12.

From the footage I have seen on him, he offers little (if any) upgrade on what Malcolm Smith brings to the field. Both are speedy, sideline-to-sideline guys that should work well at Will for Seattle’s defensive scheme. However, Smith does a better job working through interior garbage in pursuit. Smith’s ability to shed blockers allows him to take more effective angles against ball carriers. I think it is Brown’s (relative) weakness in block shedding that makes his game read as though he has poor instincts. His inability to disengage forces him to sometimes compensate by waiting for clear space, or overrunning the play.

In my opinion, this would be a waste of draft capital to take Brown in R1. I would like to see Upshaw, Brockers, Ingram, or Coples taken at 11/12, as I believe they would offer more value. Then, address the linebacker corps in later rounds. This FO and coaching staff are great at finding and developing lb talent. I think they will take advantage of that, and uncover some late round diamonds come draft day.

...and if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump it's ass when it hopped.

by Side Effects on Feb 3, 2012 3:29 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Brown is much more comfortable in coverage than Smith.

He’s also a lot more fluid and reacts to the play more quickly. Brown evades blocks with his speed and I think he disengages a lot better than you give him credit for. He doesn’t anchor well but that’s okay with our 4-3 and big defensive linemen eating up blocks.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 3, 2012 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess I just don't notice him reacting any faster to plays than Smith.

Also, I don’t believe he will be able to rely on his speed to evade blocks at the professional level. Further, he will not always be able to run around blocks in this defense. There will be times he will have to maintain integrity when NFL linemen are bearing down on him. I do think he is a good football player. I just don’t think a 11/12 pick should have to rely on our 3 hogs up front to make up for deficiencies in his game.

...and if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump it's ass when it hopped.

by Side Effects on Feb 3, 2012 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Brown has long arms

and uses them fairly well to keep blockers off his body. He’ll definitely give up ground in the process though. I don’t think we’d have to rely on our hogs up front to mask his deficiencies. He’s a pure 4-3 LB and we run a 4-3.

It’s a give and take thing. He has unreal speed but maybe at the cost of stoutness. I just think we can afford that trade off with our abnormally large DL for a 4-3 defense.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 4, 2012 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you make a good argument that he is a good fit for the team.

I think you have not made a good argument at 11/12, although many mocks have him going in the 10-20 range. Trade down and get him late 1st or early 2nd? Sure. But I sure think there is a really good chance Coples, Ingram, Upshaw, or Richardson will be there at 11/12, and I would have to think the dropoff from any of those 4 to the talent we could get in the 2nd round would be much greater than the value lost if we go from Brown to some other LB in the 2nd round.

I’m actually hoping we move down to the mid teens and then around 20 to pick up two extra mid round picks and select Mercilus, and if it came down to it, I’d rather pick Mercilus at 11/12 rather than Brown.

Smashmouth is the new sexy!

by pqlqi on Feb 4, 2012 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Making the argument that he's "worth" the 11/12 pick seems like a futile effort.

No matter what I say, people still won’t think he’s worth it. The fact of the matter is that he’s projected to go in that range and if Pete/John feel he’d offer the most to the team, then they’ll take him. I don’t think they can expect him to still be around if they trade down. I’m sure they’ll still consider trading down though.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 4, 2012 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Brown at 11/12

Would be such a huge utter disappointment.

He has speed, he has tools, he’s good, but he is NOT a pick worthy of # 11. If we trade back and then use a pick on him sure, but we could do so much more for our team by looking elsewhere in that spot. A rangy clean up guy is not going to make a big enough contribution there. We can find players like that later in the draft ala Wright and Smith for immediate examples. You don’t need to spend such a valuable pick on a player such as that.

I Bleed Blue and Green

ME...Tweeting Stuff!

by DSAhawker on Feb 3, 2012 4:03 PM PST reply actions  

He didn't look nearly aggressive enough.

Looked like he was playing patty-cake.

Not on this D.

by Fumanchuchu on Feb 3, 2012 6:59 PM PST reply actions  

While Upshaw may sorta fail if he can't be a consistent pass rusher

I think he’s more likely to be a game changer than Brown. He has better instincts and better fundamentals in tackling. While he lacks elite speed, he still has great pursuit and will chase players down from behind. Plus, he would have the ability to line up from multiple positions to bring pressure: WILL, LEO, RDE. And will improve the run defense. He won’t be as great as an athlete as Brown, but can be a more of a game changing player to strengthen the front 7.

I think speed at LB can be added with mid- to late-round players like LaVonte David or Keenan Robinson.

by SeattleAztec on Feb 4, 2012 12:35 PM PST reply actions  

Oh I agree.

Upshaw and Ingram both have a much higher upside. I consider Brown to be the safer choice though. At this point I would take Upshaw over Brown but not Ingram.

I’m a big fan of Keenan Robinson.

by Ben Harbaugh on Feb 4, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

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