Seahawks QB Situation: Not a Defense for Tarvaris Jackson
"I GET TO START?! OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY!"
Let me be clear: Tarvaris Jackson is not a good QB.
He's not a good QB in the sense that he has never passed for 3100+ yards or 20+ TDs in any season of his career. He's not good in the fact that he lost the starting job at Minnesota to Gus Frerotte. GUS FREAKIN' FREROTTE for chrissakes. His DVOA for last year ranks at a mere 2.2%, and everyone remembers the fumble he had against the 49ers that crushed what slim playoff hopes we had left, back in December. Tarvaris Jackson is not a good QB, and no doubt Seahawks fans don't want him to stick around, let alone be the starter for the next few years. He's not the QBOTF we're all clamoring for, and yet, it appears that we're stuck with him in the meanwhile.
Currently, the offseason has shown little indication that our QB situation could be fixed in just one year. Peyton Manning, the hot commodity, is close to retirement. Andrew Luck is out of the question. Matt Flynn, while scouted by JS himself at Green Bay, does not fit the vertical offense the Seahawks run and will probably be expensive. Likewise, trading up for Robert Griffin does not match the FO's modus operandi and Brett Farve is still busy somewhere doing...something. Not much left in the cupboard.
By now, you're thinking to yourself, "You're saying that I have to deal with this guy again?" Unfortunately, this seems to be the most realistic, if not forthcoming, conclusion. And who would've thought? When Tarvaris was first signed back in July, many thought that it was because he had a familiarity with Darrell Bevell's offense. And under a extremely short preseason, he naturally became the offense's leader and identity. Teammates backed him up too, voting him a captain for the season.
By season's finish, Tarvaris ended up starting 14 (almost 15) games. The results were, unsurprisingly, up and down, with some fantastic games against Philadelphia and Atlanta, and horrible ones against Arizona and the Niners. Still, he finished with career-best for every major statistical category, but that's not really saying much. The question still remains though - how high is his ceiling, and will he continue to show promise?
Let's go backward in time, back in 2006. The scouting report published is from Rob Rang at CBSSports:
Positives: Has good overall muscle development, quick feet and fluid mobility on the move … Shows good arm strength, generating velocity and accuracy on his short and intermediate throws when he sets his feet … Can make the deep out when given time to throw and has good command of the huddle … Light on his feet and has a compact release … Puts good zip on his underneath throws and is effective at carrying out fakes …
Has the body control and balance needed to keep his feet when forced to tuck the ball and run with it … Effective throwing to the sidelines on the move and shows no wasted motion in his release.
Negatives: Will pull the ball down and run with it when the pocket is pressured in the past and tried to show more patience in this area as a senior. However, the result was more sacks, as he seemed to lock on to his primary target and was then late getting the ball out … Needs to do a quicker job with his progression reads in order to locate his secondary receivers …
Struggles to read coverages and does not have great anticipation for the receivers coming out of their breaks (will force the ball and try to overpower it, making it tough for the receiver to adjust. The receiver is then in poor position to gain yardage after the catch) …
Misses wide open targets when pressured and lacks pinpoint accuracy throwing long, as his passes tend to scatter when attempting to go down field … Not the type to throw into coverage, but while he can gain some positive yardage, is not really a threat to run long distances when tucking the ball … Needs to protect the ball better when running with it (had 19 fumbles the last three seasons).
Back then, the general consensus was that Tarvaris was a developmental QB, in a similar vein to Colin Kaepernick and Tim Tebow. Many, if not all of his strengths we still see today, including mobility, quick throwing motion and a strong arm. That's what makes Tarvaris Jackson Tarvaris Jackson. (That was weird.) So that part still checks out.
But like many before him, the things he was missing are the reasons he was projected to go in the later rounds. "Raw, but talented" was what most scouts ended up agreeing on, and concerns were listed as having little to no pocket awareness; running the football as his first, not last option under pressure. He doesn't have secondary reads. Not very accurate. All signs point to a career-backup role, but these things are, as they say, correctable. These things can be taught and coached, maybe putting him in low risk games or transitioning his style to the NFL. A coach can't do that with arm strength or speed.
That was what the Minnesota Vikings were thinking when they traded up all the way to the 2nd round to pick him when most scouts projected him in the 4th or 7th at least. Brad Childress saw Tarvaris as their QBOTF:
"I think you judge quarterbacks a little bit differently. We had this discussion during our meetings last week. When you see what you want at a quarterback position you need to go get it, and that’s exactly what I see with Tarvaris Jackson — a guy who is a piece of clay, that has all the skills that I just mentioned in terms of, No. 1, what does he look like throwing the football? I’m buying that throwing motion. I’m not expecting to change it or move it around." - Brad Childress, May 1st, 2006.
You might be quick to say that, in the end, Childress didn't model the clay very well. He expected a magnificent sculpture, and what he got was some play-doh piece made by some 4 year old kid. Mind you, Minnesota had all the pieces a QB wants to succeed - All-Pro Adrian Peterson at running back, a solid O-Line led by Matt Birk, Steve Hutchinson (bleh), and a healthy Bryant McKinnie, and some good receivers in Bernard Berrian and Sidney Rice. And yet, after two mediocre seasons later, he was quickly abandoned in favor of Brett Farve. Coach Childress and his staff has been praised by players and other coaches alike for developing QB's alike, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt when the spoke as highly as they did on Tarvaris a few years back. There are many theories as to what went wrong, but I won't list them here.
Which brings us back to the present. Is Tarvaris Jackson still developing? Could he still reach that ceiling he was projected for six years ago? This is his big chance, and no doubt it can be argued that he wasn't given much of a chance with the Vikings. Statistically he has also shown some improvement towards his concerns as well. The forthcoming season just might be his final step towards success.
But what has he shown this year that suggest he deserves a second chance?
There are several factors which suggest that this year was not him playing at his best, including 1) a nagging injury to his throwing arm, 2) a patchwork offensive line that could get the ground running until mid-season, 3) multiple injuries to receiving targets. While it may be true that these are just excuses to hide the fact that he is a sub-par player, it does back the notion that he shouldn't be written off so quickly. Keep in mind this is also not necessarily a defense for Jackson either.
The Arm Injury - Back in Week 5 at the New York Giants, word broke out that Tarvaris had a high-level his pectoral muscle on his throwing arm. The strain also led to a few torn muscles near the arm area, which only caused the injury to be more nagging and painful. An injury as serious as this requires 2-6 weeks of rehibilitation, or even surgery.
Tarvaris returned to the starter role after 13 days.
Obviously, the injury led to a downward turn for him, as his accuracy got worse and more often than not he was forced to throw off his back foot, a no-no for QB's. Yet his numbers did not suffer much, and his deep ball was still there. To put it in perspective, this guy completed 58.7% of his passes for 2079 yards on half an arm, a feat that can't be taken for granted.
As of right now, he has not undergo surgery, but the extended time period from now until July will definitely help him return to full shape.
The Offensive Line Woes - As a former offensive lineman myself, I firmly believe that a good O-Line is not only important but vital to a offense's success. This was why 2008 and 2009 failed - and why JS and PC spent three of their highest draft picks in the last two years on two Tackles and a guard.
However, experience is also a key driving factor towards an O-Line's success, so when we were assured that we would begin the year with a two rookies, one second-year player, one third-year player and only one veteran, we knew there we going to be some rough patches. The Seahawks O-Line ended the year with 50 QB sacks allowed and 114 QB hits allowed, tied for 4th worst and worst overall in the league, respectively.
And caught right in the middle of the chaos was Tarvaris Jackson. It's no secret that a good O-Line will create a better QB. The young line gave him a lot of flack, and such adjustments can quickly deprive a QB of his game and composure - this is why so many promising QB's were quickly deflated.
But as the season went, the line improved - to a certain extent. While all four players except Unger were bothered with injuries and Okung, Carpenter and Moffat went on injury reserve, the line continued its slow, gradual progression, and their blocking significantly improved as the season went on. Perhaps with another year under their belts, the protection will be sturdier, allowing Tarvaris to make the best out of what he can do.
The Wide Receivers Injuries - As the season began there were lots of optimism surrounding the Seahawk's WR core. We had Sidney Rice, who was our first legitimate deep threat since Nate Burleson. Mike Williams came off a breakout year. Golden Tate and Ben Obomanu shown flashes. Even Doug Baldwin, who had a great game against the Niners, looked promising. And let's not forget Zach Miller at TE.
And like many other Seahawks fans dreams, reality quickly begins to take its toll. Rice fought off injuries before finally being IR'ed and undergoing surgery. BMW, who had a disappointing start, fell to the same fate. The ineptness of the O-Line's struggles against pass blocking limited Miller in the receiving role.
Tarvaris's late arrival and the limited time with the team in the offseason led to him frequently targeting Rice, even though when plenty of open targets were there at the time. Making due of who's left on the depth chart, Tarvaris eventually made connections with Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin. Such connections and coordination with the receivers is important - just ask Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, or Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison, etc.
Even after six years since Rang's initial report, we have no idea how good Tarvaris is or how good he can be. The general sense and opinion in this community seems to downplay on his ability, but I have a feeling, like it or not, that he's going to stick around for a while. In football and in life, there are rarely many effective quick fixes, and the chance of replacing Tarvaris after this year is again, slim to none. So don't write him off so quickly folks (we'll be seeing him again next year!) - he may have something more to show.
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Wow
He really hasn’t progressed much since college… Like at all.
At least he hasn't regressed since college like many other college QB hopefuls.
Not saying he is a successful NFL QB, but that he has at least been able to tread water as an NFL QB where most college QBs fail to do even that. With that said, I think he is a perfect backup.
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." - Ernest Hemingway
by SKIRMISH on Feb 8, 2012 9:55 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
He has progressed
It takes progression to look the same in the NFL as you did in College.
It’s just not enough progression.
they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!
by stufr on Feb 8, 2012 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Exactly what I wanted to say.
Rec’d.
I’d add that for him to look no worse than he did as a Viking with a poor OL the first half of the year (never a great one) and the injury possibly/probably holding him back in the last half, it could be a sign of progression, but that there is no way for us to know how much, if at all. He clearly had an inferior talent level with Seattle this season when compared to the Vikings team he played for.
Let's think of it this way,
who’s better: Marshawn Lynch, Okung, Gallery, and Rice – OR – Adrian Peterson, McKinnie, Hutch, and Rice?
Which would you rather have: Jared Allen, the Williams Wall, and the Vikings D? Or Earl Thomas LEO squad?
If the Vikings team is better than the Seahawks of 2011 sans Tarvaris but Tarvaris did better with the latter, then he has obviously progressed, especially considering the O-coordinator variable is constant throughout.
As for the Seahawks, they shall have stars at elbow and foot...Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion.
Then you get to the receivers....
Who, for the Vikings when Tarvaris was there, were NOT GOOD. Bernard Berrian had his best year in 2008, with nearly 1,000 receiving yards and 7 TDs, which is really good for a WR whose only skill is running down the field very fast….but how much can you attribute that to Tarvaris, who only played in 9 games that season? That’s also the ONLY season those two played on the same team (and aside to being injury prone, Sidney Rice of 2006-2008 was nowhere close to being the same receiver he is now).
The receiver situation in Minnesota was so shitty that it completely neutralizes every other advantage those Vikings teams had over the 2011 Seahawks. I’m not saying that Jackson is a good QB, but the odds were certainly stacked against him during his first 3 seasons.
Its not the worst scenario entering 2012
But imagining an upgrade at QB could potentially make the Hawks serious contenders.
by FisteeFisterer on Feb 8, 2012 11:23 AM PST via mobile reply actions
This team still has a lot of depth issues.
This draft is not that deep in QB’s, and their are many needs the Seahawks can fill in Day 1.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
QB is still the highest priority for the Seahawks BY FAR.
You can’t keep twiddling your thumbs and hoping a good QB will just fall into your lap; sometimes you have to go out and get that guy.
I'm sure he can improve
But not enough to be a permanent starter. He just doesn’t have elite qualities. It would make as much sense to start Osweiler or Cousins or whoever we could get in the second round this draft. They will have the same qualities as a rookie, and higher ceiling.
I’m curious why we haven’t ever tried Portis (like in Cleveland), are we protecting him or is he even worse than Whitehurst?
Portis is a completely raw project
More pure talent and athletic ability than TJ, but none of the QB smarts. He is a lottery ticket. He costs next to nothing and probably is worth nothing, but if there is a lot of luck, he might pan out.
they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!
You should copy this to your desktop
because it will have to be repeated about 80 times between now and september (april if we’re lucky)
I Bleed Blue and Green
We should create a fanpost with truths as we know it
They could be numbered, then we just post a link and say which number to go to.
they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!
by stufr on Feb 8, 2012 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
"So stufr?"
“Yes, recently-added-subscriber-that-we-shall-call-Chuck?”
“What about Clinton Portis? Why hasn’t he had playing time? He’s totally our QBOTF but they’re saving him for-!”
“Chuck. At this point I’d like to direct you to Field Gulls Truth #14 a.k.a the Mike Teel rule. Take a gander please.”
As for the Seahawks, they shall have stars at elbow and foot...Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion.
by Cheddar28 on Feb 8, 2012 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
D'oh!!
As for the Seahawks, they shall have stars at elbow and foot...Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion.
Here I thought you'd done that on purpose.
"Baseball isn't the world's best distraction, but only because it's so easy to start a fire." --Jeff Sullivan
by The Ancient Mariner on Feb 9, 2012 6:56 AM PST up reply actions
Earl Thomas was tweeting about playing Madden the other day
And said he benched T Jack in favor if Portis. It was jokey, made me laugh
by G-Mo on Feb 8, 2012 11:30 AM PST via mobile reply actions
And now life imitates art.
*or, how the Seahawks figured out TJ sucks.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
And I don't have personal loyalty to Tarvaris
beyond the fact that he is my only professional sports team most important player.
I’d love to seem more out of him. I personally think he had a ridiculous amount to deal with, like Kolb, in changing teams in a shortened offseason. Everyone has argued that the Kolb acquisition was terrible because he just is not an NFL QB and never will be. He had 11 days to move to Arizona, learn the playbook, meet his 90 teamates, meet his 12 or so coaces, find a place to house his family, find a car to drive, learn his OL tendencies, learn how his receivers run routes, learn how the ball flies differently in arizona desert compared to hot humid or cold frigid Philly. On top of that the Arizona coaching staff lost their highly regarded early round RB pick putting the offensive planning into a second round of development. Kolb started to perform better later in the season, and I expect his jump from this year to next with a full offseason will show a similar jump in performance. The advantage Kolb had is that most of the Arizona offense had played with each other the prior year and knew how the system would work, thus being able to help Kolb.
In contrast, Tarvaris was familiar with the playbook, and that was it. Only Sidney Rice was someone he had played with before, but RIce was out almost half the season. Not only did Tarvaris have to move, find a place to live, meet 90 teammates and 12+ coaches, but he had to learn completely new OL blocking schemes. Sure he knew what routes were supposed to be run, but every receiver runs a route differently, and like Kolb he had to learn this too. On top of all that, most of the Seahawks offensive starters had never played together. Okung and Unger had not played together. Moffitt, Carp and Gallery were all new to the team and had never played with anyone on the team with the exception of the Gallery/Miller Oakland connection. Rice had played only with Jackson – no one else. BMW and Obo had seen some time together. So the line didn’t know how to block together, Jackson had no way to know how the line would block. The receiving corps was dominated by a UDFA rookie and were arguably a total mess. Lynch was a bright spot, but Forsett and Leon have to be considered below replacement level players at least for that season. The Offense had no business ever looking like they were working together, and yet at times, they did. The sad thing is, even with the time for development over the year, some of those same negative tendencies kept arising – it’s unclear if he was directed to stay in the pocket and not make risky throw, or if he simply takes to long to make a decision.
I think an argument could be made that both Kolb and Tarvaris shouls make big jumps in their ability to lead offensive drives in the coming season. For Kolb, I don’t think it is his last chance because he has shown in games an ability to manage a offense and be a dominant player. On the other hand Tarvaris will either prove his doubters wrong or end up as a career backup. On that note, I’d love to have Jackson around here as a backup for
I want to see a better QB in seattle. That means bringing in more talent via the draft, FA, or trades. I also still want to see Tarvaris prove all the doubter wrong, and come out in a “fuck yall for doubting me, ya wasted your draft picks, and now imma show you what a man can do!” year
Go HAWKS!
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
by pqlqi on Feb 8, 2012 11:41 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Vikings Fans Were Saying This For Years
I honestly think it’s his last shot to prove something to the NFL this year. I hope and pray for his success, but I do not anticipate it.
Guy has all the tools, it’s just an issue of being smart.
Live work and breathe like an optimist.
Yep.
That break in development when Brett Farve came in was brutal.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Let's not question the man's "smarts"
If you feel he is bad at reading coverage or pre-snap reads then that makes sense. An overall blanket statement like “issue of being smart” is likely overstating his in-capabilities.
Good Point
I wasn’t thinking deeper into the post, I apologize.
What gets me is the lock down he does on receivers and the reluctance to throw the ball to a covered receiver. The other issue I have is the check-downs at the line of scrimmage seem to get away from a bad play.
I understand that this is due in some part to not trusting his receivers other than Sidney, but with a year in and time with camp will be to his advantage this year. Maybe we see some more throws and patterns with more juice in them, instead of max protect.
Live work and breathe like an optimist.
A WCO definitely takes a while for the QB to develop.
I expect improvement overall next year.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Its odd you mention WCO
Yes we are on the west coast so, I guess, technically you are correct.
But we definately featured more of a deep passing game with intermidiate routes than we did a traditional “WCO” Tarvarisis not a highly accurate QB, and the WCO is a very “Accurate QB” needy system.
This is more of a Plunket/Moon vertical passing game built on running and play action.
WCO is built on short timing routes, though every team uses aspects of this, it’s really not our system…
Yet the comments PC/JS make towards their QBOTF suggest otherwise.
Accurate, Mobile, Smart – all these doesn’t really point to a true WCO QB, and I think why we ran the offense they way we did last year was mainly because we were playing up to Tavaris’s strengths rather than his weaknesses.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Last year Hasslebeck was expected to throw the ball down field a lot as well
Pete also gushes about explosive plays
Everyone wants a smart QB
Everyone wants an accurate QB
Mobility isnt really a WCO thing, unless Tebow suddenly became a WCO QB when I wasnt looking…
WCO is mostly about timing routes, but i havent heard Pete say anything about a qb who has good timing.
If someone says they wish they had Brees, or Brady or Manning, I dont think that validates an arguement for a WCO.
forthcoming is a word
forecoming should be in the urban dictionary but isn’t
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
The problem is he can't function under high pressure.
Other than that he’s a great guy. But when it’s down to the wire and you need a score to win the game forget it. He’s 0 for 4. in Seattle . I see no reason for him to take any first team snaps at all. Unless preparing in a back-up role.
Putting those losses on TJ is completely wrong
Sure it would be great for the team to make more comebacks, but there are so many factors at play, that even the quarterback can’t be made into the pure goat or hero. At least not on the current Seahawks
they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!
by stufr on Feb 8, 2012 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
While I agree that it would be nice to have a quarterback that can perform a touchdown winning drive late in the 4th,
remind me the last time Matt Hasselbeck did that.
As for the Seahawks, they shall have stars at elbow and foot...Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion.
As a Seahawk that is.
He had 3 last year for the Titans
My point exactly.
As for the Seahawks, they shall have stars at elbow and foot...Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion.
he led a 4th quarter game tying drive against Arizona in wk 16.
he scored the game winning TD against Arizona in wk 3, but it was in the third quarter.
he completed 3 3rd down conversion passes against Baltimore in the fourth quarter to keep the ball out of the Ravens’ hands.
Those were not game winning 4th quarter drives, but they were still some clutch performances. I’d like to see more “clutch” play, but the stat for 4th quarter comebacks does not tell the whole story.
Smashmouth is the new sexy!
by pqlqi on Feb 8, 2012 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There's likely a lot more pressure in the waning minutes of the game.
As for the Seahawks, they shall have stars at elbow and foot...Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion.
Previously he has had 4-game winning comebacks in his years with Minnesota.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
if you include all the opportunities, this year included
he has had realistic 12 opportunities (within two scores in the 4th Q), that is 33%. Calculating all the game losing INTs, im gonna say Hasslebeck was a lot lower percentage. The irritating part, to me, is people readily talk about how inconsistent Tarvaris was in Minn, and use it as a crutch for arguements, but when it comes to clutch suddenly its all about what he did this year.
It isn't pressure; if the other team KNOWS that we're not going to run the ball, Jackson's QB performance is easy enough for a good defense to figure out.
Tarvaris really good at throwing the ball down the field, yet if the defense is running nickel/dime schemes against us with little threat of us giving Lynch the ball, then finding open receivers becomes very difficult.
Tarvaris just isn’t accurate enough to pinpoint passes for the brief moments his receivers are open in these circumstances.
He seems like a great guy
Very humble and genuine, which is why I feel bad about the many jokes I’ve cracked at his expense over the years. But he is not a franchise player. His flaws (poor pocket presence, accuracy, unclutchitude) are not really things he can correct. There are certainly worse stopgap options, but I honestly feel doomed to 8-8 with him at the helm. He’s just good enough to give you hope. I dont care where we get him, but we need another QB option THIS YEAR. He doesnt have to be Peyton Manning, just something to give us a glimmer of hope while we suffer through mediocrity.
I am happy with TJ and where I think he will be this year
I’m not satisfied with this years performance, or what I think he will do next year for us as the final answer for us at QB, but I think it is currently our best option.
they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!
by stufr on Feb 8, 2012 12:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Take it easy on T-jack
All of these articles seem to have one thing in common to me-There missing a VERY key point.
T-Jack came over this “offseason”, if you can call it that, with his OC (who had to change his gameplan, and work with basically an assistant OC in Tom Cable), and Sydney Rice, who was injury prone at best, and downright unreliable at worst. Any familiarity T-jack had with Bevell’s offense was really hurt with the fact that the O-line was completely unable to protect him through week 5, his number 1 go-to guy wasnt there the first few games, and Marshawn Lynch and crew were really struggling adapting to Tom Cable’s zone blocking system(which again, we can blame on the line).
Lets go to the 3 weeks of off season or so-T-Jack missed one week due to signing with a differant team in free agency. Pre-season? The number 1 offense got 1-2 possessions the first 3 games, which I’m still trying to figure out. It felt like Carroll really wanted Whitehurst to step up and prove him wrong, which he didnt.
To say T-Jack is a sub-par, bad QB is really F***ed up. The guy made lemons from lemonade, maybe not the best but pretty dang good outta a bad situation, and the F***er is TOUGH. He got hit over 100 times, sacked around 50 (some of those sacks where whitehurst), and kept getting back up. Thats a strong, tough leader, something this football team needs.
Remember old Glass Jaw Hasselbeck? I love the guy, he was a good QB, but not tough by any means. He hurt himself running into the end zone last season, untouched, and did the same thing this year. Ya, he’s takin alot of abuse, but even UFC fighters can only take so many shots before their bodies give up. Hasselbeck’s body can’t take that kind of abuse anymore. T-jack still can.
Grade for T-jack=B minus, with bonus points for getting obliterated time and time again and still getting up.
You wanna pick on someone? James Carpenter showed up to camp 20 pounds over weight. Thats where I’d start.
by kermdawg on Feb 8, 2012 1:28 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Dont forget the fact
He played with that torn Pec muscle too. Overall i think he did well considering the circumstances throughout the year. Although, next year is easily his make or break year.
Enter the 37th chamber: BEASTMODE
by RunMarshawnRun on Feb 8, 2012 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not blaming Carpenter.
He was fat when we drafted him and he’ll be fat when we get rid of him. Flesh eating bacteria is the only thing that could change that.
TJ is a sub par bad QB. He was brought in to be a tackling dummy while our O-line had it’s training wheels on. They will find somebody else this off season to be a development guy or to replace him immediately. He has one more year on his deal which is for back up money, they might offer him an extension for more back up money after they’ve gotten a starter. He’s an adequate back up.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
I'm not blaming flesh eating backteria
For TJs lack of performance. He was sub par in Minnessota and he is still sub par in Seattle. I know there are a lot of reasons for that including terrible offensive line, receivers that drop passes like a defensive linemen, new team, and his torn pec muscle.
I blame it all on PC for not letting TJ heal up from the pec tear. He could have sat Marshawn Lynch down too. If PC had just played Charlie Whitehurst the rest of the season, we would be picking our future QB right now.
Thanks PC!!!!! :-)
That part is about Carp.
Flesh eating bacteria is the only way he’s ever gonna be skinny.
70% of space is covered by dark matter, the rest by ET.
Sheesh, is this site overrun by barbarians or something? I mean, a chainsaw would suffice
Heresy grows from idleness.
Why get Matt Flynn?
"Also, for what it’s worth, if we get Flynn, New England and Detroit are on the schedule!" - SSreporters
by Corax --Nevermore-- on Feb 8, 2012 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
DO NOT
talk to Herm Edwards then….
Cause he might go tirade on you…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I
This is meant as totally constructive.
Do you have anyone edit your articles? I mean maybe (no sarcasm intended here:) it just doesn’t matter for you as long as people get your point, but having someone not you read your article slowly and do some editing could really make this polished. If you wrote this on the fly or at WayTooEarly o’clock, I apologize. No worries.
As for the Seahawks, they shall have stars at elbow and foot...Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again...Death shall have no dominion.
Heh, Since you're here...
Are you intentionally trying to front page anything I write?
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
I typically front-page things I deem well-researched, argued and and/or written.
Do you prefer not to have them on the front?
Nah just being curious.
I hope my articles are worth reading.
"You are the molders of their dreams." - Clark Mollenhoff
Better subtitle for T jack would have been...
(After getting a starting gig)
If you’re happy and you know it
Clap your hands. <Clap, Clap.>
Blaming Carpenter
That’s a load of crap. He came in overweight, sure, but he DID in fact lose weight, too. He was starting to develop and gel quite nicely with the rest of the O-line before injuries started to create havoc on Moffit, Carp, and Okung. I’m definitely glad there is training camps to get the line a lot healthier next year, because it was coming together nicely all up until after the Ravens game. You cannot blame one O-lineman for T-jack’s mistakes. WTF is wrong with you?
Hopefully next year we'll get a load of Carp instead
. . . or perhaps I should say, hopefully opposing DEs will get a load of Carp.
"Baseball isn't the world's best distraction, but only because it's so easy to start a fire." --Jeff Sullivan
by The Ancient Mariner on Feb 9, 2012 6:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
could you blame
being hit 150 times(about 14 extra were allowed against whitehurst for a total of 164 hits.)
Name the QBs in the league who take those kind of hits and still put up average or better numbers, with the talent at WR we had this year and ill show you a very short list of elite QBs if any. Those number of hits end careers.
All you have to do is look at how well hasslebeck did early last year to see how much of an impact an offensive line can have. Hasslebeck had a better Oline the last 2 years with the seahawks (though the current line is surely going to be way better)
and he couldnt do as well as Tarvaris did.
Hasslebeck averaged 3015 yards a season, TJ 3091.
Hasslebeck had a 6.46 Y/A average TJ 6.9
Hasslebeck 59.9% TJ 60.2%
Hasslebeck INT:TD 1:0.85 ratio TJ 1:1.07 ratio
In his first 4 games (before injuries happened) Hasslebeck was throwing for 288 a game, 8.7 Y/A, 66% and 1:2.66 INT:TD ratio.
Immagine if TJ actually had a good offensive line the whole year.
Quite a few people are going to be shocked when Tarvaris gets his full offseason and then...just still sucks.
The lack of offseason provides a convenient excuse for Tarvaris, but I’m not convinced that that’s the reason Tarvaris holds onto the ball way too long, doesn’t know how to throw receivers open, has to have his arm twisted to scan more than one half of the field, or numerous other basic faults that still exist after playing in the same offense for years.
http://17power.blogspot.com
by Brandon8 on Feb 9, 2012 9:28 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I would just say a few people
pretty much everyone knows Tavaris is pretty bad
I will be surprised if he consistently sucks next year
I will be even more surprised if he looks like our QBOTF.
I bet you he is ok.
they took turns pissing into the bitch's ocular cavities.
This way to the cafeteria!
Tarvaris is bad and unlikely to improve
Jackson can only be good if Seattle becomes another San Francisco, and that’s a hell of a stretch. Much of Jackson’s lack of ability is mental, he plays like a god damn idiot so often and makes poor decisions. His best games are league-average and he’s never been outstanding.
If Seattle seriously wants to contend, then they can’t just piss around and say “we’re scared the QB we draft will fail” or “Trading for Matt Flynn could be disastrous”. A lot of management is about risk-taking. Sometimes you succeed, other times you don’t.
Seattle has been bad for four straight seasons and the refusal to even try and address the QB situation by not changing the roster or signing a retread is infuriating. This offense has talent, it needs to find a talented QB.
Jackson can stay, but as a backup, because he has shown no ability to be a consistent starting QB in this league.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
First off
its not the same offense, its the same OC.
The offense was modified greatly by Cable and Carroll.
Second, he has no problem throwing Rice open, maybe he just doesnt trust his other recievers as much. He seemed to gain more and more faith in Baldwin.
You are mistaken when you say he doesnt throw recievers open, he doesnt throw recievers open in the middle of the field is more apt, because he will throw to a covered receiver along the side lines and deep.
As for scanning the whole field, this is an issue, true. How much of that is the deep passing attack? If you are in a west coast offense you get the ball out in 2-3 seconds, in a deep passing attack you have to allow the recievers to get deep, takes 4-5 seconds. This is why we run the ball so much, to get play action for a deep attack. How early do you check down? We cant say, because its really up to the coach how early he wants him to check down.
The other option is to play check ball(what hasslebeck did a lot in 2010) where you just chuck it down field and hope its your guy who comes down with it. Considering our deep threat reciever height we just didnt have the right recievers/trust combo to make it work. Another issue is routes, Rice/lockette seemed to be the only recievers “Holding the line” on deep routes, while Tate really seemed to float to the sideline making throws more difficult. This is stuff that just takes more experience and should get better this year.
Tarvaris DOES need to work on his accuracy, that will help open more of the field up, he does need to work on game situations more (Remember Tom Brady had issues in the endzone too!)
Last but not least, lets also remember that TJ faced some very very good defenses this year. 49ers x2, Steelers, Ravens(that is 4 games against 3 of the top 4 defenses) Bengals, Eagles Browns (7 games against 6 of the top 10 defenses) Falcons, redeskins, and cowboys are all in the top half of the league. the Giants were the only bottom 10 defense we faced. That is disproportionate.
I think atleast half of the starting QBs would have had major issues with these factors.
As for Tarvaris’ past, not many QBs Athletes play at a high level of consistency with erratic playing time.
2011 T Jack Review
The Good
- He can take a hit
- Seems his team mates like him
- huge arm
The Bad
- his mobility, he is a terrible runner. Not only did he fumble in the 9ers game, he could,‘t fake out 1 db for an easy td at then end of the 2nd quarter
- throwing to a tight end, he couldn’t find one. Tight ends are supposed to be a safety valve for qb’s but they are usually late in a progression and he had a major problem finding any of them
The Ugly
- Accuracy, he should of had a lot more picks this year. Atleast once a game there was a ball that should of been picked. He also had a tendency to miss some pretty open recievers
- Game winning drives – 0 – 2 the last two weeks and they were glorious chances to get the fans behind him, he fell flat on his face
- Pocket pressence, this to me is the killer and why I think TJ is never going to be a quality qb. He holds the ball too long in pressure situations and throws it too quick when he has more time. He misses hot reads and seems to miss blitz packages that leaves him vulnerable to open rushers.
The fact that people say he played ok this year is just because expectations were so low that there was nowhere to go but up. This year there is expectations and unfortunatley 7 – 9 or 8 – 8 is probably the best TJ can do.
Hard To Throw To TE
When he’s acting like a third tackle 90% of the time.
Live work and breathe like an optimist.
by JRock419 on Feb 9, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The Seattle Seahawks offense under Jackson and Bevell

That’s why I’m frightened that Jackson and Bevell are our partnership.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Feb 9, 2012 7:02 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
QBOTF
Seahawks must pull the trigger on a QB this upcoming draft or in FA . T-Jax, though he may be a good character guy and shows tenacity, he is Not our answer. Yeah, we still need to improve our O-Line. Seems we are becoming a run 1st offense….

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